Placeholder for Rules and team rosters.

DRAFT:

The map will be a Large/Small map, Huge or Large, with the snaky continents feature and the islands feature.
The game will be simultaneous turns, no double moves during wartime allowed, 20-22 hour timer (tuned to make turnovers happen around 24 hours if not everybody plays).

Speed - NORMAL
Events - ON
No City Razing - OFF
No City Flipping from Culture - Off
City Flipping after Conquest - Off
No Barbarians - Off
Raging Barbarians - Off
Aggressive AI - Off
Random Personalities - Off
No Technology Trading - Off
Permanent Alliances - ON
Always War - Off
Always Peace - Off
One-City Challenge - Off
Permanent War or Peace - Off
New Random Seed on Reload - Off
Lock Modified Assets - Off
Require Complete Kills - ON
No Vassal States - Off
No Tribal Villages - Off

All Victory conditions Enabled.

I offer this as a starting point. All of this is negotiable between the teams.

__________________________________________________ ___

TEAMS:

PAL:

IanDC - Elizabeth
Tony - Huayana Cupac
Test of Time - Hammurabi
Whiplash - Joao

CDZ's

native americans (Sitting Bull)
Portuguease (Joao)
Vikings (Ragnar)
England (Lizzy).

Robboo
Igloodude
Robi D
BCGL100


Team Civ fanatics

Mighty Dwaarf - playing as Carthage
Sonnybonds - playing Byantine
Failed Reality - America, Lincoln
Classical Hero - playing Vikings

STG

Elucidus - Sitting Bull
Kingpin - Charlamaine
CB Droege - Korea
Spike - Darius I



IP is: 65.26.251.164

Civstats url is http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=597

bbfrancis, Mighty_Dwaarf, sonnybonds, failedreality.

CDZ's roster is quite large
BCLG100, Socralynnek, Robi D, Robboo, Beorn, Darkness, Tubby Rower, Whomp, Igloodude, Beam

I think the main turn players will be me, Robi d, Igloodude and a combination of robboo/Beam/Ynnek but dont be surprised if others play too (we're getting involved in this- sub forum and everything :rolleyes:)

Personally the main rule i object too is the No city Razing thing, makes war's so much more of an arse with players sometimes being left with one city ice capitals which is hardly that much fun for them.

Uh Hi... BCLG100,

*GULP*
I am sure you are going to be out for revenge!
Best of luck to you.
*TEETH CHATTERING*

I agree with BCLG100 on City Razing Rule.

My view is keep all options on default values otherwise you mess with the balacne of the game.

PAL has a team:

IanDC[PAL]
WarningU2[PAL]
testoftime[PAL]
whiplash[PAL]

Note the [PAL] tag. We need all players to do that so that we can identify teams in the game. Also add the tag to your leader name and rename each unit to include the tag.

I also suggest each player on a team use the same in-game password so that absences can be covered by a teammate.

We are now waiting for either APO or STG to get their act together.

Whip- when do you want civ choices? i assume they should all be done publicly as you'll know them all anyways and your on a team :)

cdz has already chosen :)

STG team is:

Emperor
CB Droege
Spike
Kingpin

POINTS OF INTEREST:

This game will go very quickly. Permanent Alliances will result in very fast tech research as the beakers are cumulative for each player in the alliance. We could even consider running this in epic speed.

As always, the double move will be problematic. I think the best rule for this is that double moves in wartime are disallowed; and a 9 hour window for defense against the double move following notification should be used. CivStats does not work with BtS, so monitoring to see a double move is not possible except for the host. OverLoad is expected to come up with CivStats for BtS but there is no deadline for this.

Do you want to have "Events" turned on. My experience through SP play testing is that most Events have minor effect on the game. One exception is the "massive barbarian uprising". This event is totally devestating.

Do you want Duplicate Leaders? I would suggest yes; otherwise it would be quite tricky to come up with a "fair" way of assigning leaders. We could do a fantasy football type draft; but any system would be awkward.

Do you want a rule prohibiting early rushing? Some games are run this way to nerf the advantage a player might have by getting copper/horses in their capitol radius.

Do you want to disallow any civ's? I earlier suggested to disallow Native Americans and Portugues; but after further play testing I don't have a strong recommendation on that.

Do you want to allow all Victory Conditions?

What are double moves?

What are double moves?

Player A (victim) moves on turn X
Player B (aggresor) moves on turn X
Game rolls over to turn X + 1
Player B moves before Player A logs on, taking a city with a chariot
Player A never got to see this coming.

I am opposed to making any rules which cannot be enforced.

I think a draft for civs sounds like a fun idea.
It might go something like this.
Team A picks.
Team B picks.
Team C picks.
Team D picks.
Team E picks.
Team E picks.
Team D picks.
Team C picks.
Team B picks.
Team A picks.

Ya, that's the fantasy football style. We don't have an "E" though, only 4 teams.

why so with a draft since duplicates are allowed...???????

Seems like a waste of time..lets just post the civs and play

I am not "dictating" any settings. Duplicate civ's is my suggestion; it's up to the consensus of the teams.

They still have Jax beer down there?

yep it just came back out for a "re-release". It sucks...

Cool enough on the duplicates, I thought that was already decided.

The whole of cdz team would prefer to go with ID's rules for DM'ing, that is that they are allowed except upon declerations of war. Obviously someone logging in at turn change over should still be dissuaded but simply it will be too hard to manage DM's if we didnt allow them. It'd end up with everyone on at one time to play their turn, or everyone leaving the first however many hours of the turn free if we imposed some form of time limit.

I assume everyone is trustworthy enough not to abuse the potential DM, that is purposefully logging in.

I am fine with no draft...
I just thought it would be fun.

Umm, planning to let CFC have a team? ;)

I'll go shake some trees and see who falls in.

Also, since it doesn't appear discussion started here, I'm a little behind the curve.
This is individual play using the teams function, right?

Dave, cfc already has a team. There sign up was over in the MP pitboss place :)

Umm, planning to let CFC have a team? ;)

I'll go shake some trees and see who falls in.

Also, since it doesn't appear discussion started here, I'm a little behind the curve.
This is individual play using the teams function, right?

Isn't the CFC team represented by post #2 here? Or did I make an improper assumption?

I have no idea, just found this thread because clicked on the demo/team main forum instead of the DG2 forum. :crazyeye:

Got a link for the "other thread"?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235033

Whip you should make an update CFC saying "Game is FUll".

Sorry for posting so late I just found this new tread. LOL
I was wondering if the player list is now complete or is there still a strugle between Clasical Hero and Failedreality?

Whip any chance of this starting soon?

I'd like to start soon; but I have little to no feedback on the rules/settings and I must have the leader choices before launch.

And we now have the complication of a patch that was released today.

Ok well cdz finished chatting about it ages ago.

basically the DM rule we would like to see implemented is that they're allowed except upon declerations of war, makes it easier for everyone concerned.
No city razing- we don't want that turned on- makes wars an arse
No tech trading- we'd like it on, otherwise whats the point in having teams if we can have more teams and the tech race just goes astronomical

Allow all victory conditions
no civs disabled
duplicate leaders allowed
events turned on, massive barbarian uprising sometimes just merely equals 4 spearman to your south
barbs we would like- on, gives us something to do if you can't meet a team early.

The game wont go as quickly as what i imagine, im in another team game which has 6 teams and tech pace is no different to what it would be normally, tech prices are just increased i think.

CDZ's 4 teams= native americans (Sitting Bull), Portuguease (Joao), Vikings (Ragnar) and England (Lizzy).

Anything else needed from us? about the map settings themselves- we're not that bothered, preferrably something with continents.

TO make this easy I'm going to with the purist route.
All random, all defaut settings.
Except those metionsed above with the exceptioin of tech trading I would like to see the no tech brokering option instead.

Is that cfc's decision or just yours? you need to decide that before posting in here as this is the general gameplay thread and i assume whip wants it kept as free as possible.

I would like each team to discuss options in their own forum or through e-mail and have the captain present the consensus here. Otherwise we have a zoo.

:sheep: Whats wrong with a zoo?? i like the zoo

Ok well cdz finished chatting about it ages ago.

basically the DM rule we would like to see implemented is that they're allowed except upon declerations of war, makes it easier for everyone concerned.
No city razing- we don't want that turned on- makes wars an arse
No tech trading- we'd like it on, otherwise whats the point in having teams if we can have more teams and the tech race just goes astronomical

Allow all victory conditions
no civs disabled
duplicate leaders allowed
events turned on, massive barbarian uprising sometimes just merely equals 4 spearman to your south
barbs we would like- on, gives us something to do if you can't meet a team early.

The game wont go as quickly as what i imagine, im in another team game which has 6 teams and tech pace is no different to what it would be normally, tech prices are just increased i think.

CDZ's 4 teams= native americans (Sitting Bull), Portuguease (Joao), Vikings (Ragnar) and England (Lizzy).

Anything else needed from us? about the map settings themselves- we're not that bothered, preferrably something with continents.

I would like each team to discuss options in their own forum or through e-mail and have the captain present the consensus here. Otherwise we have a zoo.

=cdz consensus :)

STG team is:

Emperor
CB Droege
Spike
Kingpin

Sorry, Change that to:

Elucidus
CB Droege
Spike
Kingpin

OK, I'll light a fire under PAL to get this going.

Team Civ fanatics has the final roster sorted.

Mighty Dwaarf - playing as Carthage
Sonnybonds - playing Byantine
Failed Reality - America, Lincoln
Classical Hero - playing Vikings

As for game settings one of our team has expressed a preference for epic speed. Other than that we are non descript and will take it as it comes. I will update civ choices as and when I get them today and will assign them if do not receive them by this evening. Then we will be ready to go.

We have our four teams with complete four player rosters.

PAL and STG need to make civ/leader choices.

Hopefully, this gets started this weekend.

this will be done for STG this weekend.

EPIC SPEED???? I want to finish this game not my grandkids.

yeah what are the settings? i like epic speed and continents and barbarians and more.
what are the settings u like guys?

Not epic speed and then anything else is fine with cdz.

Okay here we go, I meant to post this last night, but got distracted.

Elucidus - Sitting Bull
Kingpin - Charlamaine
CB Droege - Korea
Spike - Darius I

And for PAL it will be:

IanDC - Elizabeth
WarningU2 - Huayana Cupac
Test of Time - Hammurabi
Whiplash - Joao

All four teams have selected their leaders.

I'll leave a couple of more days for map/setting/rules discussion and start this Saturday AM, EDT.

Okay, so what settings are we discussing?

The first post on this thread has a draft up for discussion.

The view (so far) from Team Civfanatics

One member has made the following requests.

city razing - on much better for warfare
no tribal villages - on no tribal villages better for balance..
i didnt see any speed setting but marathon or epic are best IMO.

Two members have expressed no feelings either way to settings.

Personally I would like goody huts, but can see the reasons why some would not wish for them. Whilst the option to raze cities allows for more options in war, not being able raze cities makes recapturing cities easier so either way am not fussed on that one. As regards game speed I could stretch to epic but prefer normal, marathon would be too much of a long slog.

Based on feedback here, I've changed the City Razing setting and set the speed to Normal. I'm not hearing enough to make any other changes.

I'll set this thing up tonight and launch tomorrow.

We have 4 duplicate leaders: Lizzy, Jaoa, Rags, Bull.

I will set the game up with the following team sequence:

PAL
CDZ
FANATICS
STG

If you have one of the duplicate leaders you can find yours in the appropriate group as shown above. I hope you understand this. The screen will show available leaders for PAL as selections 1-4, for CDZ 5-8, for fanatics 9-12, STG 13-16.

Remember to have each team member use the same password so that absences can be easily handled.

Also add your tags to the Leader and Units. You will see me as whiplash[PAL]. My warriors will be Larry[PAL] warrior, Curley[PAL], etc.

I'll post the IP on the first post when I launch. This will be sometime tomorrow; but I can't promise a time as I'm going out tonight and can't predict my condition in the morning. :beer: :sleep:

Launched!

IP is 65.26.251.164

I assume 3.03, since I can't get in with 3.02? :(

Yeah i got in with 3.03 or whatever is the latest patch

Yeah i got in with 3.03 or whatever is the latest patch

CORRECT! 3.03

dang wish you would have told us...now I have to dual install BtS.

We have a problem with the way how our team is on the map since we have three close together and our fourth player is massively away from us. What is going to happen about this?

We just have to join up togheter in game. This means that all enemy land in between will be conquered. LOL

CDZ's roster is quite large
BCLG100, Socralynnek, Robi D, Robboo, Beorn, Darkness, Tubby Rower, Whomp, Igloodude, Beam

I think the main turn players will be me, Robi d, Igloodude and a combination of robboo/Beam/Ynnek but dont be surprised if others play too (we're getting involved in this- sub forum and everything :rolleyes:)

Personally the main rule i object too is the No city Razing thing, makes war's so much more of an arse with players sometimes being left with one city ice capitals which is hardly that much fun for them.

For being quite large, you are being quite late. No CDZ's have taken the first turn with about 2 hours left.

well that sucks..could you please pause it. BC is out of town and I am not dual installed. We have a shortage of people because you gave us less than a days notice.

It also would have been nice to know what version so we could have installed prior to the day the game starts. And it appeared we were still discussing speed and things.

I am currently installing the patch and going into play all of my teams turns. no worries..its only 1 turn.

speed is to fast. with 4 people alliance tech research goes very fast. so units become useless even faster. i say lower the speed then musketman and swordman etc can be used.

I know there is still the problem of new leaders on Civstats but is this game going to be registered on there??

Is there civstats for this?

I have pm'd Whip about civstats, I think he should even with the issue of the new leaders not being available on it as it allows us to easily check turn status without having to load up the game.

I have pm'd Whip about civstats, I think he should even with the issue of the new leaders not being available on it as it allows us to easily check turn status without having to load up the game.

Indeed, particularly with DMs apparently still disallowed. Can we get a list of rules/settings that are actually in-game, else we're just going on discussions with no clear result.

Indeed, particularly with DMs apparently still disallowed. Can we get a list of rules/settings that are actually in-game, else we're just going on discussions with no clear result.

I tried putting up civstats but get error messages. I'll tinker.

It seems as though 1/2 the STG team is MIA.

I tried putting up civstats but get error messages. I'll tinker.

Did you make sure you have the latest version of the uploader? There was an update for BtS games to be able to work.

yeah i think a slower speed would be best... that and with the quick start we missed a couple of turns.

I'll have the game down for a short while tomorrow evening for system maintenance. At that time I'll also try to get civstats running.

I met another civ !!!! borders are close here!

hmm, so was this a full large map instead of huge?

it's huge.

Message to self - Always view the read.me file when using new software!

Civstats is now running for this game.

http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=597

I've set everybody's registration password to aa.

We have a problem with the way how our team is on the map since we have three close together and our fourth player is massively away from us. What is going to happen about this?

Lucky most of cdz is fairly spread out, though when the huge comes into the equation i doubt we'll be that far apart.

Congrats to the team that got Hinduism, the turn we researched it. :aargh:

:D That would be PAL. :D

Civstats is down for this game.

Game went down with the "network socket error". Back up now with only IanDC having taken a turn at 3320BC, 19+ hours left for turn.

New patch coming soon.

could you wait to patch this game. Last time you started a patched game and CDZ missed a turn. IF you are goginto patch wait and announce ahead of time by a few days.

In addition you may wait a bit to make sure this patch doesnt cause more problems and to figure out compatiabilty.

To patch or not to patch is really an option if you are active with MP. You have to patch immediately when you join the lobby. I personally have no qualms with patching but as a precaution to ensure there is no incompatibility, the first few players should create a dual install prior to the patch so they can fall back if necessary.

not able to connect this morning :cry:

Comp went down overnight.

Back up now. All but Ian, Mark, Kingpin need to play 3160BC, 18 hours left.

Why did you load from such an old save? You should have loaded from the last successful login, which would have been my login at 1:40 am EST last night. Everyone before me should still have their turns completed.

could you wait to patch this game. Last time you started a patched game and CDZ missed a turn. IF you are goginto patch wait and announce ahead of time by a few days.

In addition you may wait a bit to make sure this patch doesnt cause more problems and to figure out compatiabilty.

yeah plz annonce a few days ahead it would be nice.

Why did you load from such an old save? You should have loaded from the last successful login, which would have been my login at 1:40 am EST last night. Everyone before me should still have their turns completed.

I couldn't find a later save.

yeah plz annonce a few days ahead it would be nice.

I'll try to do that; but the problem is that I'm in many other games and have to follow the host of those.

If you cant give any notice then you could possibly take the game down for two to three days to allow everyone to patch. This is what happened in some of the games when BTS came out and seemed to work ok.

yeah kill the game if you have to patch without warning us. Better for EVERYONE to miss a turn or two than just those who cant patch right away.

I think taking the game down for a single 24 hour period should be plenty of time though. Just notify everyone at least 12 hours before the time you would take the game down, let the turn flip to a new turn, then take it offline for 24 hours for the update.

I think taking the game down for a single 24 hour period should be plenty of time though. Just notify everyone at least 12 hours before the time you would take the game down, let the turn flip to a new turn, then take it offline for 24 hours for the update.

Sounds like a plan!

Power failure required me to reload.

Roobo needs to replay his turn.

OK..goign in now hope I didnt miss it.

I wish all of you would use the team tags as I suggested.

Which team is HitAnyKey playing for?

Um, dude...my tag has been on my name ever since the very first time I logged in. Just check civstats or the game itself. :D

But in either case, I'm on StG. As it shows on my name.

Um, dude...my tag has been on my name ever since the very first time I logged in. Just check civstats or the game itself. :D

But in either case, I'm on StG. As it shows on my name.

Yeah, I missed that. I was looking for a tag on your unit.

Game and uploader appear to be down...

Power outage forced a reload.

cannot connect.

cannot connect.

Network Socket Error again.

2760 BC up with full timer.

Whip, when you have to reload someone's autosave please announce whose it is you had to load so that people know that they have to redo their turn. I almost didn't realize I had to redo my turn.

Sorry, I was late for work and didn't have time to investigate.

The game is down. I went in a second time, since I forgot that I changed the name. SO hopefully noone needs to replay the turn again.

Network Socket Error again. I wish I knew what causes that.

Recovery file loaded for 2640BC

All but warningU2, Test of Time, and Sonnybonds have 16 hours to play the turn.

BCL100 needs to repeat his play turn as the network socket error hit again.

The game has locked up on me twice in a row now at the Finishing stage of connecting...

The game has locked up on me twice in a row now at the Finishing stage of connecting...

The game looks ok from this end. Anybody else having a problem?

I was able to get in just now. May have been some odd connection issues last night when I was trying. In any case, all is good now.

The patch is now out, so are we going to patch after this turn? Well I have had to upgrade for one game, so we need to do this soon.

If you cant give any notice then you could possibly take the game down for two to three days to allow everyone to patch. This is what happened in some of the games when BTS came out and seemed to work ok.

I will take the game down after this turn is complete.

OK, it's down. I'll load the patched version Sunday, noon, EDT.

Game is up. Ian and I have plalyed the turn. 19 hours to go.

I can't connect to the game.

Network Socket Error.

Loaded Recovery file. Robi D and TestofTime have played the turn at 2000BC.

18 3/4 hours to go for the others.

Now there is war I like to mention the no double turn rule.
I dont see anygame rules but i think this rule is also in this game or not???

yeah a rule clarification would be nice. some of us can only play at certain times so I want to know about that.

/oh and sonny.... you picked the wrong civ to attack :)

Oooh, war already between CFC and CDZ. This sure is early in the game.



PS. Whiplash, can you please update the first post with who is playing which civ for CDZ? Since people aren't putting their team next to their name when they log in (so I can figure out who is what team on Civstats), I'd at least like to be able to see who is on the CDZ team. Took me a bit to figure out which team robboo was. Also because there's currently two Robi D's on the civstats list because he logged in for two people.

CDZ...Robboo, Igloodude, Robi D, BCGL100 and occasional Beorn and others to sub.

I will change my name this time when I log in. Its one of those things I keep forgetting.

Which is really CFC 2. ;)

Oooh, war already between CFC and CDZ. This sure is early in the game.



PS. Whiplash, can you please update the first post with who is playing which civ for CDZ? Since people aren't putting their team next to their name when they log in (so I can figure out who is what team on Civstats), I'd at least like to be able to see who is on the CDZ team. Took me a bit to figure out which team robboo was. Also because there's currently two Robi D's on the civstats list because he logged in for two people.

I'm as clueless as you are since there have been multiple substitutions since the start of the game.

I implore all to add your team tag to your name ie, whiplash[PAL].

Now there is war I like to mention the no double turn rule.
I dont see anygame rules but i think this rule is also in this game or not???

The draft rules in the first post state,no double moves during wartime allowed. There has been no discussion of this since the post was made so it should stand.

I agree that there should be no double moves during wartime. And no double moves at the time of the declaration of war either.

well we need an out clause on that...some of us have to play at certain times. i will not miss a turn just so I dont DM.

Any suggestions.

I think that teams can make arrangements with each other and relevant players so that if a DM is needed, then the other players can allow it if they have been told about it, knowing that the person who does the first DM will eventually get DM down the path.

And actually, now that I think of it....with at least 4 people playing for each team it should be relatively easy to avoid DMs by having one of your teammates log in for you to play your turn if you won't be able to do so in time to prevent a possible DM.

And actually, now that I think of it....with at least 4 people playing for each team it should be relatively easy to avoid DMs by having one of your teammates log in for you to play your turn if you won't be able to do so in time to prevent a possible DM.

I was just about to post a similar message. With good team coordination, this should not be a problem.

Well i will essentially just wait to the last moment to play. Turns will drag on. I am playing this game to play my own turns if my teammates have to play every turn because I have work. Its hardly fair to them or me.

SUGGESTION...first 12-14 hours its normal turn rules no DM after that time you can play at any time even if it DMs a person. My definition of Dm is to end a turn and then play right away NOT some half a day later.

I speak for myself not my team. I am anti-noncoded rules in Civ pitboss. You want no DM play a PBEM. Use the mechanics and rules of the game as the only rules and you wont have any arguments. There are no reprecussions to the rules no way of enforcing them if civstats goes down. Therefore...rules are essentially "suggestions". A player in the game can not be the judge or enforcer of the "rules"...unfair bias. You cant make rules and penalties up to a game after it starts...again unfair bias.

so whats the rules, penalties and enforcer...AGAIN..I do not intend to DM but if it happens due to me needing to go to bed or work. I will do it.

Game is down.

ISP failure. Reloaded. Ian and Robi D are in the reload. Others have 15 1/2 hours.

cant connect

I won't be home for 4 hours, will check it then.

Very stormy here with high winds. ISP crapped out again.

Reload file up. testoftime, ian, Robi d, HitAnyKey, and CB are in the recovery file.

Others have 12+ hours to play the turn.

Those who haven't played and who are fighting me...I am playing my turn. Its 8 hours to go and I wont be awake when it turns over. I have one teammate who cant play tonight and I am playing for him and the others have played...sorry but thats just how its going to be.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED A 12 OR X HOUR LIMIT FOR before DM is legal.

I will be DM and my only reply is...perhaps your teammates should play for you.





Edit
PLAYED...I should note...I had a chance to kill a unit<99% and I didnt thats is the one"gift" you get this game.

Well it looks like that no one else on our team has played yet and I am the first to play.

CH..this is what I am talking about. I would have missed my turn waiting for your teammates who didnt even show up up.

Here is my DM rule proposal.

There shall be no back to back moves during a time of war. You are allowed to play before your opponent and have back to back turns if the game timer reads less than 12 hours. This is to stop the game from running a full 24 hours and to lessen the chance of a DM during war.

CH..this is what I am talking about. I would have missed my turn waiting for your teammates who didnt even show up up.

Here is my DM rule proposal.

There shall be no back to back moves during a time of war. You are allowed to play before your opponent and have back to back turns if the game timer reads less than 12 hours. This is to stop the game from running a full 24 hours and to lessen the chance of a DM during war.

This makes sense to me.

BTW, warningU2 has been replace by Tony on the PAL team.

Why does Tony have [CIV] at the end of his name? Shouldn't it be [PAL]?

Why does Tony have [CIV] at the end of his name? Shouldn't it be [PAL]?

He'll fix it.

Games is down

This message is coming from work. My home internet connection is down. The cable tech is scheduled to come out tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon. Assuming he fixes it, the game will be back up tomorrow evening. Be forewarned though; the last time this happened it took 3 visits from 3 techs and over a week to finally fix the problem.

Fried modem. It's back up.

BCLG, Robboo, Mighty, Sonny, Failed, Classic, Kingpin, Spike have 13 hours to play the turn.

The game is still timing out when I try to connect.

EDIT: I'm still unable to log in and have effectively missed my turn. :(

My apologies. I should have checked this when the new modem was installed. My IP changed it is now: 65.26.251.51

I loaded a save file from 1800 BC with 13 1/2 hours to go. The previous list of players, plus CB, need to play it. Nobody will miss a turn.

would be nice if you mailed everybody for your new adress.

When you guys (this directed at everyone) log in for someone else on your team, can you please change your name in such a way as it does not duplicate your own normal name in the system? It makes it very confusing when looking at civstats and at things in-game.

An example is how CB did it for Kingpin this turn.

Thx.

Anything interesting going on in the war that can be shared with the rest of us? :D

just hitting enter....while they gather their forces.

/sucks to be alone with no team mates nearby

It sucks to be against the counter unit.

It sucks to be against the counter unit.Huh? :confused:

chariots vs my spears...

yeah, smart of you robboo to get copper via your trade route. now things are a bit more difficult for us. But dont worry we have your city captured very soon now.

yep...I am sure you will...

The uploader (and possibly the game) is down.

I will check it when I get home in about 4 hours.

I just got in fine.

When I got home the PitBoss was running fine, but my browser crashed.

12 hours to go this turn, 1480BC. Lemme know if anybody has problems.

I'm unable to connect.

EDIT: We're good to go now. Thanks, whiplash, if you got things running again.

It'd be cool if Might Dwarf and Failed Reality play their turns soon *hint* *hint*. That'd cut quite a bit of time off this turn.

The game is down just as I was loading the game.

It's back up.

I can't connect. Is it just me?

I can't either, so it is not just you.

Same for me.

and me too

Network Socket Error on Spike's turn. It's now up with 13+ hours to go.

The game is down again, while I was trying to connect to the game.

Network Socket Error about 3 hours ago. Recovery file loaded with 5 1/2 hours to go for Both Classics, Sonny and Spike.

I have no idea what causes that error. It seems to happen when somebody is joining. I'm also running a Warlords PB and that error does not occur. Any ideas?

The uploader is offline, but game is still up I believe.

Would that be a game error or a Firewall error?

It's an error reported by pitboss in the DOS style window it displays. I'm not running a firewall, but I'm sure most of you are.

Whip, can you please reset the civstats uploader. It's been down since this morning.

I'll take care of it when I get back home in about 4 hours.

Looks like CFC's attack on us has run into technical difficulties :lol:

/oh and sonny.... you picked the wrong civ to attack :)


I told you so....

I will think we will be willing to talk peace...just gift me all the units you presently have around my city...and the city to my direct north. Otherwise...we will just kill them and take the city..then kill your other capital. Its only a mater of time for you now.

a few gallions dont really scare me at all.
If you guys give us the portugal cap we will give you peace.

a few gallions dont really scare me at all.
If you guys give us the portugal cap we will give you peace.

A few gallions just eliminated half your team's attacking army for virtually zero losses on our part, perhaps you should be more scared. ;)

and now my army will start eliminating your pathetic attack force...which sat around for 20 turns not doing anything. Perhaps you should be nervous...since you haven't fielded a single metal based unit. Especially since you dont know how many ships or what units where on those ships.

OH CH...perhaps we now should refer to CFC as CDZ2 ( see earlier comment buy CH)

Last chance CFC...the peace discussion is now off the table. Bye Sonny...you will have a bit more free time just in time for the holiday season.

How come a player named _____Dude has a fem avatar?

I would have played the turn for FR had I known exactly what the time the new turn was and I would have been able to settle a city near the copper and thus the Civ would not have been eliminated.

a few gallions dont really scare me at all.
If you guys give us the portugal cap we will give you peace.

:rotfl:
People who are losing do get things for peace they give things:lol:

And i agree galleons or in this case galleys are not scary. It what they are carrying thats scary.

and now my army will start eliminating your pathetic attack force...which sat around for 20 turns not doing anything
Well, there is one player with 3 production and 4 food IIRC so you can't say that that attack force did absolutely nothing.

I would have played the turn for FR had I known exactly what the time the new turn was and I would have been able to settle a city near the copper and thus the Civ would not have been eliminated.
IMHO you should have planted earier, especially if you're without metal. What's the point in a choke if you don't grow himself? One city in 1040 BC kinda sucks. BTW if it's not a secret, how it happened that you didn't kill him in 2v1 with such a close start?

I will tell you...I had spears they had chariots and archers. I was able to whip and produce just enough units to keep pace. My metal was gifted from my team so they coudlnt cut it off. Result...20 turns of me hitting enter waiting for help. They also wasted shields building settlers one thats dead and one new city that I cant wait to burn.

yes I am down to low production/food...BUT that recovers really quickly...quicker than being dead.

The game is down while I was trying to load it.

Did the Ship cut off the trade route?

It's up again. NSE.

Classical Hero and Sonny have one hour to play the turn.

Classical Hero, is this your e-mail addy?

rking AT kingsnet DOT Canada

No, that is Kingpin's Apparently the game is not connectible, since I tried to connect and had no success, but it is too late now for me to lay my turn, so if one of my team mates can play the turn then do so.

Whiplash, you should delete that address from the post. You shouldn't post addresses like that, as Bots can then grab it up.

The game is down while I was trying to load it.

Did the Ship cut off the trade route?
yes for a few turns since you got it there so late...I then switched to archers.

How come a player named _____Dude has a fem avatar?

It's either a Halloween avatar that I haven't gotten around to replacing, or a clever attempt to screw with peoples minds. Your call. :mischief:

Yep... game is still down.

And can someone remove my e-mail address from the above post? I get enough spam as it is. I currently filter out 3000 spam messages per month... down from 8000 per month.

Back up, it seems.

OK, sorry about the naked post of the e-mail addy.

Kingpin, why do I get one or two e-mails from you every day which are rejected by my ISP? I was just thinking that maybe it had something to do with the NSE.

Game is back up with 15+ hours to go in the turn.

OK, sorry about the naked post of the e-mail addy.

Kingpin, why do I get one or two e-mails from you every day which are rejected by my ISP? I was just thinking that maybe it had something to do with the NSE.

Game is back up with 15+ hours to go in the turn.

whiplash, I have no idea... I'm not sending you any e-mail.

whiplash, I have no idea... I'm not sending you any e-mail.
Then again, maybe your virus does :lol: It can as well be someone else's virus forging letters with your email but it will be better to check for viruses just in case if you don't use antivirus all the time.

The game is down while I was trying to load it.

Did the Ship cut off the trade route?

yes for a few turns since you got it there so late...I then switched to archers.

the game is also nice enough to shade the sea tiles that are blocked

:aargh: The game went down again while I was trying to load it. I have sent you a PM since there is something wrong between the two machines since this has been happening alot when I try to load the game.

Yes, there seems to be some kind of conflict. The Network Socket Error is raising it's ugly head when you try to join. I can't find much info about this error except that it's a communications error. It can be caused by noise on the line.

Do you use any kind of funky communications programs?

Game is back up with 4 1/2 hours to go in year 1000.

The NSE caused a 1 1/4 hour gap in real time before I could load the recovery file. Several players have yet to play this turn.

I got in. I have Trillian, but that should not cause the problem, so I have removed the glance tab and see if that might have been the cause of the problems.

Nice job of you guys. Saving Portugal and destoying 1 civilization.
I cant say nothing but congratulations. Good tactic of you guys.
I couldnt connect for 2 turns i think but it there s nothing i could do anyway.

except runaway...:)
/I missed 1 turn also

Well robboo put in an oscar winning performance in pretending to be more alone than he actually was ;)

thank you....but it was fairly easy

Game just crashed while I was logged in at the turn change.

I'll be home to fix it in 4 hours.

edit:

Upon returning home I find it running normally. Sometimes the game locks out players during the turn rollover.

I've been attempting to connect for about 15 minutes no joy... is the game down?

The game is down for me also.

It's back up.

Network Socket Error again; this one may have been caused by a player trying to enter the game while pitboss was executing the turn rollover.

If you see negative time for the next turn displayed in civstats, don't try to join.

Well i was trying to access it at least 30 minutes before turn roll over so i've now lost a turn.

Whiplash, have you tried to get the patch again just to see if by chance you have had a corrupted version of the patch and see if getting the patch again will fix this problem?

Nah, different problem. Internet connection crapped out.

Nobody lost a turn. The timer in civstats is wrong.

Recovery file loaded. CB and Spike have nearly 9 hours to play the turn.

Classical Hero also needs to finish his turn. 6 1/2 hours.

You need to restart civstats.

Robboo just double turned me. now i lost a chariot.
Not so nice of you Robboo.

LOOK BACK IN THIS THREAD...I mentioned this problem before. I WILL DO IT AGAIN...less than 10 hours left on the timer I will play unless I can play later.

It was less than 9 hours left on the turn. I had to go to work..in other words..tough. You dont play and there is only a few hours left as I mentioned before I am going to play. I am in this game to play not have my team-mates play for me. I waited till the very minute before I left for work.

It matter anyway...you days are numbered. I suggest you give in to my demands of that city, 1 worker, 5 chariots and 5 archers. Otherwise...I take the city, kill all your troops and burn your capital. You have 24 hours to respond from this post. You started the war..you need to pay for losing it.

Can't ya just feel the Love?

Game is down.

And it's a real bummer it went down, as it could have rolled over 3 hours ago if it hadn't.

Can't ya just feel the Love?
LOL :lol: :lol:

Whiplash, please advise when you'll be reloading the game. Spike and CB need their turns played before the turn rolls over as it went down while Spike was trying to do his turn at noon (EST) today.

OK, it's up.

Spike and CB have 3 1/2 hours.

Can't ya just feel the Love?

Sorry but dont call me not nice for playing a game a fair as possible with in the constraints of having a job.

All peace deals are off the table...CFC's time has expired.

That didn't give me enough time to play my turn. :(

If it's an absolutely critical situation and nobody objects I could reload it. I'd rather not as it's a pain for others to redo the moves in the current turn.

This should not happen. Teammates should share their game passwords to allow "pinch hitters".

SONNY...ending one turn by hitting enter and then playing the next without ANY time passing is an illegal double move. HOWEVER. You made no aggressive moves that I can tell BUT off my view you may have.

IF you would have made an aggressive move in my view I would have demanded a restart to this turn. IF you want to allow DMs just let me know so i can also take advantage of it.

Sorry i just forgot to hit enter. No military units moved so nothing happend.

I really dont like double moves. What are the official rules about double moves in this game. I know that in other Pitboss games theres lots of discusions about it.

The rules for this game from what I've seen of the discussions are that there are no DMs allowed. However, if a player A hasn't done their turn and less than half the timer is left and player B needs to play their turn (because they can't play it later) then they are kind of forced into a DM situation which is ok.

And I would also suggest that every time someone is "forced" into a situation where they need to make a DM that they post on here that it is happening and basically why. Such as the other player not having played their turn yet, but you have to do so because you are about to go to bed/work/etc and won't be able to later before the end of the turn.

I was under the impression that DM's were allowed so long as it wasnt on the decleration of war.

I was under the impression that DM's were allowed so long as it wasnt on the decleration of war.

See post #9.

IMO that rule will become very very unmanageable when the game progresses and it becomes highly likely that teams are at war with more than one other team.

Personally i would aim not to DM but if i was forced into it i would.

IMO that rule will become very very unmanageable when the game progresses and it becomes highly likely that teams are at war with more than one other team.

Personally i would aim not to DM but if i was forced into it i would.

Well you just double turned and there was 14 hours left on the clock????

Why? i didnt attack anything, CH your team member was there at the rollover so if he had of needed to do anything he could of. Plus all movement was done in a boat which you wouldn't have been able to stop anyways.

Of course you gained an advantage you landed your troops unopposed next to his city in a forest square if you had given him chance to move he could have covered that square meaning you would have had to fight for it from a boat or land further away from his city. That is a blatant advantage from double turning. Also please do not suggest that any other of our team could have done anything as you took those two turns within the space of four minutes.

This game needs to be reloaded to allow Sonny to react to BCLG100's initial turn i.e move before BCLG on turn 650BC otherwise this game is turning into a sham. It seems one team is talking the talk about playing fair but is not walking the walk.

Just curious, how far did the boat have to travel (within sight of CFC borders) and how much defense would have been left in the city itself if Sonny had actually decided to move troops into that forest? For personally if I saw a ship on the edges of my borders, I quite possibly would be more concerned with defending the actual city than a forest nearby.

The boat was out of view and could land unimpeded in one turn....forest or hill tile take you pick. you cant cover both. Oh and dont forget the other forests right there too. OH if you reload then Sonny cant attack my troop sitting there...thats why Sonny wasnt in the forest or his city...he took the bait....(wounded units are good bait--huh sonny) :)

Sonny has DM me( at least once probably twice) as has FR before his untimely (for him) demise. With this many people its impossible to prevent this. IF you get DM'd you then get 2 turns in a row unimpeded.

edit - never mind robboo answered.

Was an unfair advantage gained by the DM or not?

More discussion is needed. I've taken the game down until this is decided.

If sonny was screwed either way as robboo suggests, why did bclg100 double move rather than just waiting?

So since you took the game down...what is your plan. Who goes in what order to play it out.

IF YOU RELOAD THIS...YOU BETTER GIVE ALL PARTIES ALOT OF WARNING in order for teams to play in the correct order.

You started the discussion so now...here my suggestions based on playing about a 8 to 10 pitboss games.
1. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
2. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
3. having a "rule enforcer " thats in the game...is unfair. his decisions will have personal bias. (its impossible not to)

THEREFORE...
DM are fair at all times except declarations of war. IF CIVstats is down you can't tell DMs.(so its not 100% enforceable) There is no game code against DMs.( not enforceable) DMs cause more fights and game stoppages than your router problems(joking) I think we all see that its impossible to play a DM free pitboss. If you want DM free...play PBEM. The game moves faster and turns get played quicker if you dont have to worry about DMing someone.

Oh and before someone says I am just saying this now...look back at any thing I have said in rules discussions...I HATE NON-GAME CODED RULES. Play the game like it was written bugs and all.

Whiplash...you put yourself in a bad spot. You cant make decision here thats not biased. If CFC or CDZ are your allies or potential allies...you have to side with them out of self interest. Even if you allies are planning to attack CFC or CDZ...your decision will be influenced.

if you reload... you have to reload after BC first turn so Sonny cant have 2 turns prep. You split BCs DM up. If you can reload to only when sonny redos his turn prior to both of BCs turns then you gave sonny a major advantage as big of an advantage as BC's.

you cant have 7 (was 8) people in a war(2 civs) and not have a DM...stoppping the game every time...will likely kill it.

So since you took the game down...what is your plan. Who goes in what order to play it out.

IF YOU RELOAD THIS...YOU BETTER GIVE ALL PARTIES ALOT OF WARNING in order for teams to play in the correct order.

You started the discussion so now...here my suggestions based on playing about a 8 to 10 pitboss games.
1. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
2. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
3. having a "rule enforcer " thats in the game...is unfair. his decisions will have personal bias. (its impossible not to)

THEREFORE...
DM are fair at all times except declarations of war. IF CIVstats is down you can't tell DMs.(so its not 100% enforceable) There is no game code against DMs.( not enforceable) DMs cause more fights and game stoppages than your router problems(joking) I think we all see that its impossible to play a DM free pitboss. If you want DM free...play PBEM. The game moves faster and turns get played quicker if you dont have to worry about DMing someone.

Oh and before someone says I am just saying this now...look back at any thing I have said in rules discussions...I HATE NON-GAME CODED RULES. Play the game like it was written bugs and all.

Whiplash...you put yourself in a bad spot. You cant make decision here thats not biased. If CFC or CDZ are your allies or potential allies...you have to side with them out of self interest. Even if you allies are planning to attack CFC or CDZ...your decision will be influenced.

if you reload... you have to reload after BC first turn so Sonny cant have 2 turns prep. You split BCs DM up. If you can reload to only when sonny redos his turn prior to both of BCs turns then you gave sonny a major advantage as big of an advantage as BC's.

you cant have 7 (was 8) people in a war(2 civs) and not have a DM...stoppping the game every time...will likely kill it.
While i agree that double moves better be allowed, it was stated in this game rules that they aren't allowed. So it's ok to change the rules for the future but that particular issue should be dealt according to the rules currently in effect (that is, no double moves).

And even if that move "didn't give you any advantage", then why BCLG100 made a turn at 11/26/07 4:33 am and 11/26/07 4:37 am, and after that other players logged in later for the same player "11/26/07 4:06 pm BCLG100 Changed name to Beorn]CDZ[", "11/26/07 4:12 pm Beorn]CDZ[ Changed name to Robboo(cdz)"? Obviously, your team was able to make a turn later but you decided to double move.

P.S. And we need some neutral side to decide what to do in that case.

Posted by whiplash #119

The draft rules in the first post state,no double moves during wartime allowed. There has been no discussion of this since the post was made so it should stand.

BCLG gained an advantage by landing a small stack of troops unopposed in a forest next to Sonnys city. If he had waited as he should have done after his first turn the boats would have been seen approaching and that tile and the hill tile would have been defended meaning if he had of wanted to land there he would have had to fight from the boat. He could have landed on a grassland tile but then could have been counter attacked without any tile bonus defense. The units defending the shore tiles could then have been moved back to defend the city. Without going into too much detail this is a large advantage as far as are team are concerned. When BCLG says there is no advantage how does he know surely it is upto the defending team to decide that!! If no advantage was to be gained why did he not play by the no DM rule and avoid all this debate??

So since you took the game down...what is your plan. Who goes in what order to play it out.

IF YOU RELOAD THIS...YOU BETTER GIVE ALL PARTIES ALOT OF WARNING in order for teams to play in the correct order.

You started the discussion so now...here my suggestions based on playing about a 8 to 10 pitboss games.
1. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
2. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
3. having a "rule enforcer " thats in the game...is unfair. his decisions will have personal bias. (its impossible not to)

THEREFORE...
DM are fair at all times except declarations of war. IF CIVstats is down you can't tell DMs.(so its not 100% enforceable) There is no game code against DMs.( not enforceable) DMs cause more fights and game stoppages than your router problems(joking) I think we all see that its impossible to play a DM free pitboss. If you want DM free...play PBEM. The game moves faster and turns get played quicker if you dont have to worry about DMing someone.

Oh and before someone says I am just saying this now...look back at any thing I have said in rules discussions...I HATE NON-GAME CODED RULES. Play the game like it was written bugs and all.

Whiplash...you put yourself in a bad spot. You cant make decision here thats not biased. If CFC or CDZ are your allies or potential allies...you have to side with them out of self interest. Even if you allies are planning to attack CFC or CDZ...your decision will be influenced.

if you reload... you have to reload after BC first turn so Sonny cant have 2 turns prep. You split BCs DM up. If you can reload to only when sonny redos his turn prior to both of BCs turns then you gave sonny a major advantage as big of an advantage as BC's.

you cant have 7 (was 8) people in a war(2 civs) and not have a DM...stoppping the game every time...will likely kill it.

I believe Whiplash's intentions are for a vote to decide on whether any infringement has taken place. I agree that the fairest solution would be a reload to allow Sonny to respond to BCLG initial move. If this cant be done, well the answer is simple one "if you cant do the time dont commit the crime"

When BCLG says there is no advantage how does he know surely it is upto the defending team to decide that!!

It seems to me that sums it up & the rest is pretty straight forward.

1- the rule is clearly no DM in war time.
2- civstats shows it very clearly that a DM was made

If Sonny wants a reload then I'd say he should get it. I don't know if the game makes a save at the start/end of each turn, as that would look like the best one, failing that there's CH's login from the next turn if it happened before the 2nd move was made or back to BCLG's login at the turn end.

For the future I'm ok with switching to a DM's allowed except on war declaration. If we're going to keep the no DM rule then We need to round up a neutral umpire.

There was no way you could have defended the three potential landing spots/launched a counter attack. You only had 2 units capable of being in the city and another being 2 tiles away from the city.

The galleys themselves have 3mp- so i could pretty much move where i wanted them too without you seeing.

I played both turns at one time so i could not have to come back at a later time and play the things. I don't have infinate time everyday to wait to play after someone else nor do i wish to possibly have to find a sub at last minute. If a reasonable suggestion can be made as to what you would have done differently then im quite happy for the turn to be reloaded. As it was- you had one injured archer two tiles away from the city, one injured chariot with a possible GG attached to it and possibly another chariot. You say the possibility of a counter attack but who would counter attack against 1 archer with 4 promos and 1 with 5 with their last two units. Whether they were on grassland or hills or forests or anything!

Changed name to Beorn]CDZ[", "11/26/07 4:12 pm Beorn]CDZ[ Changed name to Robboo(cdz)"? Obviously, your team was able to make a turn later but you decided to double move.

Beorn logged in to look around so he can take over BC's turns in the next couple of days. He logged in to my civ as to not cause problems.

I agree that if a reload needs to happen it has to happen after BC's first turn. IF thats not possible you are then giving sonny the advantage similar to a DM.

double post

So since you took the game down...what is your plan. Who goes in what order to play it out.

IF YOU RELOAD THIS...YOU BETTER GIVE ALL PARTIES ALOT OF WARNING in order for teams to play in the correct order.

Based upon what I am reading here there was a clear rule violation and I think that the turn should be replayed.

You started the discussion so now...here my suggestions based on playing about a 8 to 10 pitboss games.
1. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
2. non-game coded rules dont work and lead to fights.
3. having a "rule enforcer " thats in the game...is unfair. his decisions will have personal bias. (its impossible not to)

Regardless of your opinion of non-game coded rules, the rule was clearly stated and BCLG chose to break it. I could recruit a non-partial "judge" but that would take a lot of time.

THEREFORE...
DM are fair at all times except declarations of war. IF CIVstats is down you can't tell DMs.(so its not 100% enforceable) There is no game code against DMs.( not enforceable) DMs cause more fights and game stoppages than your router problems(joking) I think we all see that its impossible to play a DM free pitboss. If you want DM free...play PBEM. The game moves faster and turns get played quicker if you dont have to worry about DMing someone.

Oh and before someone says I am just saying this now...look back at any thing I have said in rules discussions...I HATE NON-GAME CODED RULES. Play the game like it was written bugs and all.

I disagree that DM are fair. Just because you don't like the rule for this game doesn't give you the right to violate it. I think it's pretty clear from the 4 minute time span that you willfully violated the game rule. The game should not be decided by players who use clock manipulation. In this case civstats was not down. I have played in about a dozen pitboss games that did not have fights over DM. Especially in this game, where teammates can share passwords to play for another, a team can wait to avoid a DM. If DM is allowed the game will take much longer to complete as you will have many turns where some player(s) will be waiting for the timer to expire in order to get the first move in the next turn to complete the DM.

If the majority of teams want to change the rule now that can be done; but the origional rule should apply until that happens.

Whiplash...you put yourself in a bad spot. You cant make decision here thats not biased. If CFC or CDZ are your allies or potential allies...you have to side with them out of self interest. Even if you allies are planning to attack CFC or CDZ...your decision will be influenced.

I would not sacrifice my integrity for the sake of winning a computer game. Besides, in this case, PAL has no interest in the outcome of a war between CFC and CDZ at least as far as can be seen from this point. Obviously the outcome of a war between two team will impact the other teams "down the road"; but in this case the impact on PAL (and likely STG) is not foreseeable.

if you reload... you have to reload after BC first turn so Sonny cant have 2 turns prep. You split BCs DM up. If you can reload to only when sonny redos his turn prior to both of BCs turns then you gave sonny a major advantage as big of an advantage as BC's.

I need to check the Recovery Files to see what reload options are available.

you cant have 7 (was 8) people in a war(2 civs) and not have a DM...stoppping the game every time...will likely kill it.

Perhaps unintentional DM's would occur in certain circumstances; but this one was "set up" by BCLG.

My inclination is for a reload if sonny thinks it would have made a difference in the battle outcome. The attacker(s) say it would not make a difference. I would also like to here from STG on this.

Im happy for a reload- i dont think what i did was wrong but if thats whats going to happen then i'd rather it happened now rather than a few days time :)

So long as the upload is at the end of my first turn. If its the whole turn before thats just not fair.

Im happy for a reload- i dont think what i did was wrong but if thats whats going to happen then i'd rather it happened now rather than a few days time :)

So long as the upload is at the end of my first turn. If its the whole turn before thats just not fair.

OK, I've got to run to work now. I'll check the reload options this evening.

Why? i didnt attack anything, CH your team member was there at the rollover so if he had of needed to do anything he could of. Plus all movement was done in a boat which you wouldn't have been able to stop anyways.

Unfortunately only Sonny has the password for his civ. The password that he gave is not correct, so it was not possible for me to play, plus while I was online I was in my own civ at the time, so it would have not been possible for me to be playing sonny's turn anyway.

In my opinion, the only "fair" reload (as BCLG stated) would be the turn rollover save for 650BC (which should be timestamped 7:34am EST). It is a bit annoying that this had to come after nearly every player had played their turns, and from reading what everyone has said I personally don't think the outcome would change a whole lot. But if Sonny thinks it would, then I see no "harm" in reloading as I don't believe there were many major things going on with what everyone else did that turn.

I do want to state that the reload should occur at pretty much the exact same time that the turn started the first time. So the reload should occur as close to 7:30am EST as possible, as that's the time the turn would have started originally. Or at least plan the reload such that sonny can play his turn relatively early in the reload so bclg can go soon afterwards and maybe we can get through this replay of the turn fast enough.

whiplash...my post was suggestions not what should be fair since you wanted discussions. YES BC broke the rules so reload to where BC played the second turn.

IF you cant then we need more discussion on just how to proceed.