Here is the Great Person lists that will appear in the next beta of the add-on.

If you have suggestions, please make them. Also, I need people to fill out the Merchants category. I'm looking for famous businesspeople of the time (like Rockefellar). :)

Artists: (My silent tribute to the men/women/children of the camps is to use the songs written in the camps)
Gideon Klein Piano Sonata: Allegro con fuoco
Adagio
Allegro vivace
Viktor Ullmann Piano Sonata n. 5 op.45: Allegro con brio – Meno mosso
Andante
Toccatina. Vivace
Serenade. Comodo-Meno mosso
Finale fugato. Allegro molto
Piano Sonata n.6 op.49: Allegro molto-Andante poco adagio
Allegretto grazioso
Presto ma non troppo-Tempo primo
Piano Sonata n.7: Allegro. Gemachliche Halb
Alla marcia, ben misuraato
Adagio. Ma con moto
Scherzo. Allegretto grazioso-Trio-Scherzo
Variationen und Fugue uber ein hebraisches Volkslied
The Soldiers of the Moor
Dachau Song
Stand Fast
Our Town is Burning
A Child of Our Time
Over Yonder in the Sunshine
At the Edge of a Forest
Never Say That You Have Reached the Final Road
By the Ghetto Gate
The Lonely Child
Yisrolik
There Lies Treblinka
Auschwitz
We Long for a Home
Verdict

Scientists:
Howard Florey
Edwin McMillan
Phillip Abelson
Georgii Flerov
Konstantin Petrzhak
Igor Sikorsky
Arthur Wahl
Enrico Fermi
Warren McCulloch
Walter Pitts
Peter Medawar
Leo Szilard
Edward Teller
Stanislaw Ulam
Albert Einstein
Hendrick van de Hulst
Jan Oort
Howard Aiken
Ray Owen
Willard Libby
James Hey
Fred Hoyle
John Atanasoff
Clifford Berry
Samuel Williams
Vannevar Bush
Robert Oppenheimer
Isadore Rabi
Otto Hahn
Fritz Strassman
Hans Spemann
George Stibitz
Claude Shannon
Alan Turing

Merchants:
Please make suggestions

Engineers:
Othmar Herrmann Ammann
John Blume
Felix Candela
Edgar Cardoso
Arthur Casagrande
Eladio Dieste
Elsie Eaves
Eugene Freyssinet
Ben Gerwick Jr.
Fritz Leonhardt
Tung-Yen Lin
Robert Maillart
Ralph Modjeski
Pier Luigi Nervi
Ralph Peck
Egor Popov
Ian Hindmarsh Ring
John Savage
A. Skempton
David Steinman
John Stevens
Karl von Terzaghi

Generals:
Wladyslaw Anders
Harold Alexander
Claude Auchinleck
Lin Biao
Thomas Blamey
Simon Buckner Jr.
Omar Bradley
Lord Alan Brooke
Vasily Chuikov
Mark Clark
Michael Creagh
Adrian De Wiart
Henry Crerar
Alan Cunningham
Andrew Cunningham
Miles Dempsey
Petre Dumitrescu
Zhu De
Dwight Eisenhower
Simon Fraser
Bernard Freyberg
Hermann Goering
William Gott
Rodolfo Graziani
Heinz Guderian
Brian Horrocks
Albert Kesselring
Marie Pierre Koenig
Ivan Konev
Walter Krueger
Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
Philippe Leclerc
Oliver Leese
Douglas MacArthur
Stanislaw Maczek
Carl Mannerheim
Mitsuru Ushijima
Walther Model
Bernard Montgomery
Leslie Morshead
Louis Mountbatten
Omar Mukhtar
Prince Higashikuni Naruhiko
Chester Nimitz
Richard O'Connor
George Patten
Friedrich Paulus
Matthew Ridgway
Neil Ritchie
Konstantin Rokossovsky
Gerd von Rundstedt
Erich von Manstein
Franc Stane
William Slim
Alfred Schlemm
Raymond Spruance
Kurt Student
Dragoljub Mihailovic
Josip Tito
Aleksandr Vasilevsky
Archibald Wavell
Nikolai Vatutin
Kliment Voroshilov
Chen Yi
Georgy Zhukov

Some Italian Generals in WW2 (more appropriate than Graziani...):
gen. Adolfo Infante - "Enemy tanks rush behind Ariete. Thus Ariete surrounded. Ariete tanks fighting."
gen. Enrico Frattini - Folgore!
gen. Gabriele Nasci - 100.000 ice mess tins

Being Italian generals in WW2, we're not talking of winners, of course.
But I think that a little explanation on why I chose these three is due.

Gen. Infante, commander of armoured division Ariete at El Alamein; what I quoted is the last message from his HQ, before the total annihilation of the division.

Gen. Frattini, commander of the paratroopers division Folgore. His 5.900 men resisted for a week on the southern edge of the El Alamein front the attack by four infantry and two armoured divisions, until they were ordered to retreat. During the retreat the survivors went out of ammunition and water, and finally all the 294 of them were captured.

Gen. Nasci, commander of the Alpine Corps in Russia. In January 1943 his three divisions were still holding their positions on river Don, whilst the rest of the front had been smashed by the Russian Operation Saturn. On the 17th, surrounded, they were finally ordered to retreat to the new front line; they put their 75mm WW1 howitzers (the only heavy armament they had, being mountain troops) on the sledges and left their trenches. After two weeks marching by feet in the Russian winter, opening their way through some 25 battles, nearly 11.000 of the originally 51.000 Alpini reached the friend lines.

Are the GP going to be country/culture specific?

I've seen Germany get Patton as a GG twice which I thought was pretty funny.

Dale, first thank you for making these cool scenarios. Im havin a lot of fun playing them. Regarding your merchants: check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/industrialist

Some of them maybe too recent but most will do i think.

I also have some other names.

John D. Rockefeller

John Maynard Keynes

Milton Friedman

Arthur Cecil Pigou

Irving Fisher

Lionel Charles Robbins


Hope its enough. Good luck with the scenario, im looking forward to it.

BTW: dont forget to add Montgomery Burns (Should be a smiley here but i still dont know how to)

I have not played the mod yet, so I don't know if they're in already or something, but both Howard Hughes and Henry Ford could have a case made for them.

Did you have Erwin Rommel up in Generals.
Probably the most famous Nazi General.

Who's George Patten?

Patton. Spelling mistake. ;)

Did you have Erwin Rommel up in Generals.
Probably the most famous Nazi General.

Probably the most famous German General....

Rommel's in, so's those three Italians.

Engineer

Ferdinand Porsche - He could also be put as a Merchant. He founded the companies Porsche, and later Volkswagen at the following of Hitler. He also helped design and manufacture several tanks used by the Wehrmacht.

Merchant

Ernst Hanfstaengl - He was a wealthy patron of Hitler, who helped Hitler get to the spot of Fuhrer. He later deserted the Germans, and fled. He later served Franklin Roosevelt by giving information on the Nazi Regime.

General

Tomoyuki Yamashita - Known as the Tiger of Malay. A Brilliant Strategist and General who captured both Malaysia and the heavily defended Singapore, which was the largest surrender of British-led personnel in history, he also played a hand a conquering the Philippines. Unjustly sentenced to death in 1946.

may i suggest some generals for republic of china side

General Xue Yue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xue_Yue) who fought the famous Battle of Changsha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changsha_%281942%29)

General Bai Chongxi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_Chongxi) who fought the Battle of Tai'erzhuang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tai%27erzhuang)

General Claire Chennault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Chennault) of the flying tigers

Are the GP going to be country/culture specific?

I've seen Germany get Patton as a GG twice which I thought was pretty funny.

I've checked out Gaius Octavius's civ-specific GP's, and quite frankly it would be a nightmare for this mod. Each civ requires a separate UU to initiate for each GP type. That's 30-odd civs each with UU's for each GP type. :eek:

Until a better solution is made, that's not gunna happen sorry.

I'm not sure if any of these have been used yet, but how about:

Werner von Braun - Engineer or Scientist
Werner Heisenberg - Scientist
Hjalmar Siilasvuo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjalmar Siilasvuo) (sort of obscure, but not only did he decisively win every major battle he participated in, but he also, near the end of the war, decisively defeated Germany) - General?

I've checked out Gaius Octavius's civ-specific GP's, and quite frankly it would be a nightmare for this mod. Each civ requires a separate UU to initiate for each GP type. That's 30-odd civs each with UU's for each GP type. :eek:

Until a better solution is made, that's not gunna happen sorry.
How about the unitname modcomp I remember somewhere here. Just tweak it to check the civ, and then select the next free name?

Could you please use real artists instead?

It's a nice tribute, but this is supposed to be a historic simulation...

this is supposed to be a historic simulation...

A historical simulation is quite a different beast from a game based on history. A historical simulation places the emphasis on the historical aspect, as opposed to gameplay, where the two conflict. My personal feeling is that Dale is attempting to make a game, not a historical simulation (and IMO, Civ4 is a poor choice of a base for a historical simulation - it simply doesn't have the fine-grained control that would be required).

How about great spies? There are plenty of well know spies and special operatives from the era.

Some Italian suggestions from a forgotten theater:

generals-

Luigi Frusci: Defended Italian position in Sudan despite being cut off from supply line and ordered to withdraw to Eritrea. Last Italian regular army officer to mount defense in AOI.

Amedeo Guillet: Famous horseman and cavalry commander, led relatively successful cavalry (ie: horses and sabers) charge against British forces, second last in history. He's also the only living person to have commanded cavalry forces in any war today.

spies-

Rosa Dainelli: Italian doctor, infiltrated British ammunition stores and destroyed entire supply of prototype weaponry (some sort of heavy machinegun, forget model number) and ammo. Somehow survived the blast.

Francesco De Martini: Became guerilla leader after fall of AOI, actively recruited natives to resist British forces and sabotage British positions.

Apologies for organization on this; it's more or less organized as I thought of it.

Engineers:
Robert Moses - Era-correct, though not really active during war for funding reasons, major highway builder in New York City.
Leslie Groves - Coordinator for the atomic-bomb project.
Walther Gropius - Inventor of the Bauhaus architectural school.
Werner von Braun.
Andrei Nikolayevich Tupolev
Artem Mikoyan
Mikhail Koshkin - Lead engineer on the T-34. Posthumously awarded Stalin Prize for his work.

Merchants:
Alfried Krupp - The man who actually ran Krupp during the war.
Gustav Krupp von Boehlen und Halbach - The titular head of the Krupp armaments dynasty during the '30s and '40s. Thoroughly senile by the '40s, but very influential in the '30s.
Hjalmar H. G. Schacht - Hitler's finance minister, the man responsible for the first German economic miracle and the tie between Hitler and the bankers.
David Rockefeller - The man behind Chase Manhattan.

Generals:
Claire Chennault - Commanded American volunteer pilots in China pre-war, re-commissioned Dec '41.
William O. Darby - Only US general promoted posthumously in the war. Built, trained, and led Ranger organization in Europe until Cisterna in 1943. Certainly appropriate to give massive experience boost to a unit.
James Gavin - Commander of the US 82nd Airborne, later XVIII Airborne Corps.
Joseph Stilwell - US commander in Burma, analogous to William Slim, with many of the same qualities, minus humility and diplomacy.
Maxwell Taylor - Commander of the US 101st Airborne, stayed in well into Vietnam.
Lucian C. Truscott - US infantry divisional commander in Italy, moved up to Corps level. Like Bradley, a solid all-around commander.
Orde Wingate - Arguably qualified British special-operations brain in Burma
Willhelm Bittrich - Commander, 2e SS Panzerkorps during Market-Garden.
Karl Doenitz - Commander, U-Boat Force.
Adolf Galland - Commander, JG51 and eventually General der Jagdflieger. If you're including Goering...
Gunther von Kluge - Von Rundstedt's replacement on the Western Front in '44.
Hasso von Manteuffel - German armored commander and postwar politician. Overall commander of penetration that reached Meuse and encircled Bastogne in Dec '44.
Erich Raeder - Commander, Kriegsmarine.
Kurita Takeo - Commanded Japan's last remaining naval combat forces at Leyte Gulf.
Nagumo Chuichi - Commanded Japan's carrier forces early in the war, led fleet at Midway.
Yamamoto Isoroku - Surprised he isn't already listed.


Spies:
Wilhelm Canaris - Arguable on whether "great" or not, but head of the Abwehr.
Reinhardt Heydrich - Head of the SS counterintelligence division, arguably Hitler's greatest overachiever.
Otto Skorzeny - Most of the missions Skorzeny carried out were nowhere near militarily significant, but served some intelligence function. He was hardly a spymaster, though.
William Donovan - Head of the OSS. Already in Civ4 personality list.
J. Edgar Hoover - Head of the FBI. Already in personality list.

Prophets and Propagandists:
Joseph Goebbels
Norman Rockwell
Vyacheslav Molotov

Scientists:
Niels Bohr
Werner Heisenberg

Yamamoto Isoroku - Surprised he isn't already listed.


He isn't listed because he's a Civ Leader (he was actually taken out of Civ4's GG list). :)

He isn't listed because he's a Civ Leader (he was actually taken out of Civ4's GG list). :)

That too is a decision I disagree with - Yamamoto wasn't the moving force behind the government, an honor that falls to a series of army officers culminating in Tojo. If you're going to write a list of period "great generals," Yamamoto's pretty much a must-have. However, since I lack the coding skills to do anything like this, that's worth about the paper it's written on.

Now, back to something more constructive...

Generals:
Alfred Travers Harris
Theodore Roosevelt Junior
George C. Marshall
Ernest King
Frank D. Merrill

Engineers:
Clarence Johnson
Frank Lloyd Wright

Prophets:
Alfred Rosenberg
Andrei Zhdanov
Nikolai Bukharin (A stretch, but the Purge didn't happen until 1937)
Pius XII

Spies:
Lavrenti Beria (Could also be a merchant or an engineer - he wound up in charge of a LOT of stuff, but his most famous accomplishments were at the NKVD)
Nikolai Yezhov
Genrikh Yagoda
Richard Sorge
Leopold Trepper (Controller of the original Red Orchestra network)
Ian Fleming (Average work as a spy, but leaving him out seems criminal)

I've bothered including a list of prophets as the people who spread the values-system of their given ideology. With the exception of Norman Rockwell, who would rightly be classed as a Great Artist, but so perfectly captures the "American Way of Life" that he could arguably be called a prophet of "Americanism," all of the ones I've listed have been people who argued loudly for a given ideology. Rockwell's arguments were on canvas, but were arguments nonetheless, which is why I added him.

The problem is that the generals during the war period really overshadowed everyone else, and it's easy to start getting into division-level or lower commanders, as I did in a couple cases (Truscott, Darby) on the list I added, based on whether their actions became textbook how-to cases. It's slightly harder to build a good list of scientists, because they're easy to pick from, but engineers especially get shortchanged, since, let's be honest, how many of us know off the tops of our heads the chief engineer behind, say, Taipei 101? I know I can't, and engineering's supposed to be my field of choice.

It would be easy to assemble at least a short list of cultural figures, but you're handling artists differently; it's actually a novel approach that requires considerably more work than throwing out names, and I'm intrigued by the idea of handling "great people" as "great works" instead. After all, there's nothing historically inevitable that says that Einstein had to be a scientist; he could have remained a patent clerk forever. Relativity, on the other hand, was going to be found.

A note on a few of the generals - A couple of the generals I've listed either spent the war in staff positions (Marshall, King) but were enormously influential on the military policy of their side, or never rose higher than equivalent to assistant division CG, but developed rather heroic reputations in those posts (Darby, TR Jr.). Also, a correction - Galland served in JG 26, danger of posting before looking up references.

That too is a decision I disagree with - Yamamoto wasn't the moving force behind the government, an honor that falls to a series of army officers culminating in Tojo.

You may not agree with the decision to have Yamamoto as the leader of Japan in the official release, but I had to agree with Firaxis when they said no Hirohito or Tojo in the game. ;)

If you're going to write a list of period "great generals," Yamamoto's pretty much a must-have. However, since I lack the coding skills to do anything like this, that's worth about the paper it's written on.

It's easy:
1. Use explorer to browse to \Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\The Road to War\Assets\XML\Units\
2. Right-click the file CIV4UnitInfos.xml and click Open With and choose notepad.
3. Doesn't matter if you don't understand anything else, but essentially, each section of this file defines a unit type (eg Settler, GG, GProphet, etc). The first couple of unit types are settler, worker, workboat.
4. Next come the Great People. One part of a unit type is called "UniqueNames". This is where names are listed. Take a look at Great Artist definition to see a list of names.
5. Just follow the same for the other GP types. :)

Not quite what I meant, I was thinking more along the lines of Theodore Roosevelt's statement on critics. I have no doubt that I could tinker with the mod - did plenty of it with Civ 2 and even Civ 3 during my brief stint playing it, and the basic values can't be that hard to modify for the game to be as customizable as it is. I do, however, have my reservations about trying anything more substantial than that.

I understand about Firaxis being nervous about Hitler and Tojo as leaders, not so sure about Hirohito, though I disagree with it. Don't even get me started on the entire Stalin/Hitler thing - it's a debate that too many people have gone over already, so not much I could add.

Now - as for the great person list... THAT I can do, or at least prod at repeatedly. Nothing drives me nuts more than seeing "Great Engineer was born in London! (English)" every few minutes. First off, why am I not getting those engineers, and second, who in the world names their child "Great Engineer?" Pretty much dooms them to becoming a liberal arts student.

I've checked out Gaius Octavius's civ-specific GP's, and quite frankly it would be a nightmare for this mod. Each civ requires a separate UU to initiate for each GP type. That's 30-odd civs each with UU's for each GP type. :eek:

Until a better solution is made, that's not gunna happen sorry.

Old news, my friend. That is now done and past. :D

We now have a completely Python renaming system, and in fact I will be using it in my updated WWII in the Pacific mod, so you can now have civ-specific people in RtW, too (as it should be). :)

add Seymon Timoshenko. Soviet general, served in Russo-finnish war and assorted battles on eastern front

Oskar Schindler as Industrialist

Perhaps Erik Heinrichs as Great General. An old Finnish jaeger and commanded Finnish defenses in Karelia.

For Prophets/propagandists:
Frank Capra-Director of Why we Fight
Leni Riefenstahl-Director of Triumph of the Will