Now, lately, a lot of NESes have failed because of soem terrible mistakes and lack of players.


I suggest:
1) In one topic, new and more acceptable rules and all will eb discuseed.
2) At one point, we will make ALL-FORUMER NES, so everone (or much of) NES forumers will be there.

Any more suggestions?

Sounds like a jolly good idea. We need NES that balances between the ction-packed ones that move too fast and the more realistic ones that move too slow, though...
Maybe we should have one with several moderators, each dealing with their own aspect...

That's all the construcive ideas I've got. Just trying to increase my postcount;)

agree on both

I agree, but a few suggestions

- the game shoul be run by a GM who doesn't play a nation. it can be done, if everyone respects the GM's honesty, but being free to just run the game, and not the game and a country helps enormously

- consolidate games...only run maybe three, but with only three games, they'd all be full, which would encourage action

- more player action - not more invading or fighting..just more color stuff. Make up news reports, put some character into the game. Be a communist, or an isolationist, or a monarchist just to create friction...which creates conflict, and thus interest.

The problem with the NES is that there is no real play except for warfare. That, and a lot of aggressive diplomacy (for example the Netherlands conflict in UKNES, the America conflict in Simple NES).

I am working on an NES which will have an actual map, with provinces and everything, making the empires look less like amoebas and more like real nations. And there will be much more ways for the player to interact with the NES and the other players than mere warfare. It'll be sort of like Diplomacy, if you've ever played that. More of a board game than an RPG.

I agree that impartial moderation is essential. I think that dispersion is a problem. With all the NES's going on now, we could put together one HUGE NES with something like 10-20 players. Which would be cool....

Troquelet, I am definently join your NES! I've been waiting for one that includes peacetime action.

Yikes, scary. 10-20 peoples? Eek.

Still, fun :).

There are actually Diplomacy games going on around here...they're in All Other Games/Avalon Hill's Diplomacy. Skip right on over and check it out.

Not sure if this is really the right place, but might as well discuss a few game mechanics here. It occurs to me that, since some NES games are starting to turn into simple pen-and-paper versions of Civ, why not introduce the key Civilization element of cities? Just throw some more or less evenly spaced dots on the map, and you've got a territory system that's much easier to keep track of than the standard coloring-in-nondescript-blobs method. Sort of like Troq's suggestion here of using predefined provinces, but a little more Civ-esque.

How about we combine the two? Instead of founding "cities", we found "provinces" of clearly defined size?
And I really agree that the various players should add "spice" to the game by sticking in non-game-affecting events. I mean, that was the original idea behind the never-ending story, wasn't it?

Part of the game system I am developing is you can colonize provinces, making them part of your empire, by moving to them. You can also furthur develop them by building a City in them, which generates extra income, but Cities are expensive.

All right, just for you to see, here's my game system. Still have to make the map though....

AGNES (A Grand Never Ending Story)

WELCOME
To AGNES, a groundbreaking NES. The scene is ancient Europe, where several civilizations are vying for power. There is no limit to the number of possible players, and there are ALWAYS free spaces. So join whenever you like!

THE MAP and TIME SCALE
The map shows Europe from England to Mesopotamia and from the Black Sea to Gibraltar. Land is split into parcels called PROVINCES, and oceans are split into areas called SEAS. At the beginning of the game each player controlls only one Province, but as the game goes on empires may stretch across many Provinces (Seas, however, are always uncontrolled).
For ease of reference, each Province is given a number, and each Sea is given a letter. Thus, there is no need to memorize ancient maps or know ancient history. If you prefer to use the ancient names, please use the letter or number as well!
The game starts in 600 BC and moves forward a year each turn (600, 599, 598, and so on).

JOINING THE GAME
At any time, you may announce yourself the ruler of an empty province. You then become the ruler of this empire, to which you may give a name, and receive a starting salary. As long as there are empty provinces, you may join the game.
The game will start when there are five or more players. To keep the game historical at least at first, please choose a historical starting position :) .

AT THE START OF THE GAME
Each player at the start of the game (and any new joinees) will receive a Treasury of 50 Talents, one Province with a City in it, and no military forces.
Some explanation is necessary here as money is a new concept to NES in general. Talents are the currency of the game, and are stored in your Treasury indefinitely until spent. Talents are used to:
-expand your territory
-train a military
-negotiate deals with other players.

ON A TURN, Part 1
At the beginning of a turn, the moderator (that’s me!) will PM you your Treasury and your troop positions.
Your salary is absolutely dependent upon the size and development of your territory. Each Province you occupy generates 1 Talent per turn. Likewise, each City which you have built generates 2 Talents. (A Province with a City in it generates 3 Talents, obviously).
This salary is added to your present Treasury to make the new balance.
Also in this PM will be your troop positions. To keep the game simple and streamlined, there are only two types of military - Legions and Galleys. Your troop positions are indicated by the letter or number of the Province/Sea, followed by the number of troops stationed there. For example, A-6 tells you there are 6 Galleys in Sea A, while 15-1 tells you there is one Legion in Province 15. There is no limit to the number of troops in a province.

Very Important: Your total military size may not be larger than 40 Units.

ON A TURN, Part 2
This phase is negotiation, in which you talk among yourselves about the game. The moderator plays no part here, but once in a while may post some news headlines, including any scandals which have happened, news from any wars, and just general news headlines.

ON A TURN, Part 3
This phase, the last part of the turn, is the Orders phase in which you submit to the Moderator (by PM) your empire’s orders for the year. There are several orders which can be made:

1. COLONISE
Example: Colonise 12 means Colonise Province 12.

You may colonise any EMPTY Province which is adjacent to your own original territory, making it part of your Empire (you can’t colonise a Province two spaces away by colonising the middle one and then the far one, because the far one is not adjacent to your original empire). This costs 1 Talent per Province. You may also colonise overseas EMPTY Provinces if a Province you control is connected to the target Province by a chain of Seas with your Galleys in them. This overseas colonising costs 2 Talents per Province. Colonising is a peaceful action and will not start a war. If two or more nations try to Colonise the same Province, the money is still spent, but absolutely nothing happens - they “bounce” off of each other.

2. SETTLE
Example: Settle 12 means Settle Province 12.

You may Settle any Province controlled by you which is COMPLETELY surrounded by other Provinces controlled by you or by water (in other words, it’s an “interior” province and does not border on neutral or enemy territory). This action costs 6 Talents per Province settled, creating a City in the Province (the City represents the new development of the Province and generates more income). Your starting Province contains a City already.

3. TRAIN
Example: Train Legion 12 means make a Legion in Province 12.
Example: Train Galley 12-D means make a Galley in Province 12 and launch it into Sea D.

You may create new troops in any Province which has a City. This costs 3 Talents per Legion, and 5 Talents per Galley. There is no limit to the number of troops each City can train. Obviously, Galleys may only be trained in Cities which border water. New Legions appear in the City’s province and may move the same turn. New Galleys appear in any bordering Sea, you must indicate this as in the example. They may move the same turn.

4. CONVOY
Example: Galley T Convoy means Galley in Sea T will act as a convoy.

A Galley can use its move by acting as a convoy. Any Legions on a coastal Province may use their move to cross any chain of convoying Galleys to land at another coastal Province at the end of the chain. Legions may move both ways across the chain, and there’s no limit to carried troops. If you form a T with your Galleys, any Legion at any end of the T may move to either of the two other ends, for example. Convoying makes the Legion lose its turn, but it will ATTACK anything at the end of the chain (so you can make a convoy to an enemy Province and attack it).

5. DEFEND
Example: Legion/Galley 16/Y Defend means the Legion or Galley will defend Province 16 or Sea Y.

Defending uses up the unit’s entire move, but it will fortify itself and prepare for enemy attack, giving it a bonus if a battle happens. Defending Galleys in the same Sea as Convoying Galleys will be attacked first, giving the Convoy time to escape. Defenders in a City receive large bonuses.

6. ATTACK
Example: Galley/Legion T/18-Z/16 means the Legion or Galley in Sea T or Province 18 will attack Sea Z or Province 16.

An “attack” for a Legion is used under these circumstances: either you are moving from one of your Provinces to another, or you are moving from one of your Provinces to an enemy Province, or you are convoying from one of your Provinces to another, or you are convoying from one of your Provinces to an enemy Province.

Notice: Military units may NOT move to neutral unclaimed territory! These MUST be colonised first. They can be colonised on the same turn, however.

In any case, if you are “attacking” your own territory, you just move there. If you are attacking enemy territory war is declared and you attack anything you find (you can also give special orders about what the Legion is to do on the attack).

Legions may move one Province, or may convoy any distance.

If you are a Galley attacking, you may move up to two Seas, and you attack anything on your way. As all Seas are neutral, you can move to any Sea. If you attack anything, war is declared and a battle ensues.


Here’s an example of an order sheet for an empire with 7 units

Colonise 17
Colonise 2
Colonise 19

Settle 12

Train Legion 12
Train Legion 12
Train Legion 12
Train Galley 12-A
Train Galley 12-B

Galley T Convoy
Galley Z Convoy

Legion 12-16 by Convoy
Legion 12-17 by Convoy
Legion 12 Defend
Galley A-V
Galley B-C

TOTAL MONEY SPENT: 28 Talents.



SIDE NOTES: If one country pays talents to another for whatever reason, that money has to be posted on the forum (doesn’t have to say why you’re paying) and I will change your salaries accordingly.

LUXURIES AND SCIENCE: Each turn, along with your order form, you MAY choose to make a Science and Luxury bid. This devotes as many of your talents as you choose to Science and or Luxury.

Example: 12 Talents to Luxury, 14 to Science.

Each turn, the person with the highest Science bid makes a discovery, which I announce. Each turn the person with the lowest luxury bid, and any and all players who contribute a sixth or less of their salary to Luxuries, have a small chance of one of their Provinces revolting.

COMBAT
To make combat very understandable, here’s the system I use!

First, calculate the odds of Legions engaged, rounding to favor the Defender. For example, if I have 2 Legions being attacked by 4 Legions that’s 2:1 odds. If a Legion has a DEFEND order, it counts as 1 1/3 Legions, rounding down. So 3 Defending Legions really count as 4 Legions.

Now by this handy chart I transform the odds into the chance the attack has of winning:

1:2 20 Percent

2:3 30 Percent

1:1 50 Percent

3:2 60 Percent

2:1 75 Percent

3:1 90 Percent

If the attacker is attacking a City, his chances are lowered by 15%. If he is attacking by convoy, his chances are lowered by 10%.

SEA COMBAT is much the same, with these exceptions. Galleys with a DEFEND order are not multiplied: instead, they protect Convoys like so: if a Convoy is attacked, the attacker receives a 10% bonus and some of the convoyed Legions may die. If any Galleys with a DEFEND order are in the same space, only the DEFENDing Galleys are included in the combat (no bonus) and the Convoying Galleys are safe unless the Defense loses, in which case the Convoy is attacked. Thus, the point of giving a Galley a DEFEND order is to protect a Convoy, or to keep it in the same space.

Combat Casualties are entirely to my discretion. But, generally, the loser will suffer about 1.5 times as many casualties as the attacker.

--------------------------------

That’s it! What do you think? Any suggestions, additions?

Here's the map I'm thinking of using.

I will post a thread in the off-topic section and ask people who are interested to join NES's, this should give us more players hopefully.

Another idea is to start Scenario NES's, for example a WWII Scenario. Idea's like this can keep things fresh.

Also I feel money and trade should come more into the game, I find the only real excitement comes with war and they are usually breif as the aggressor is always swamped by enemies. We need to find player's who will play as dictator's and aggressor's as well as peace-loving presidents.

That's all my idea's for today.

Hmm. On one hand, giving attackers a 50% success rate at a 1:1 ratio seems a bit skewed in the attacker's favor; but then again, it might be necessary to encourage more players to attack.

A while back das tried to do a random-map NES, which I thought was a good idea, but also used random countries/civs, which probably wasn't. It might be fun to generate an actual Civ3 map, convert it into a basic two-color map, and use that to play on, WITH real-life civs for purpose of accessibility (so that players wouldn't have to learn about a dozen fictional countries, they could just look at the map and know "Oh, there's Britain.")

Have you seen the NES's at 'Poly? The Concept manages to keep realistic much more often there. The main differences being that they keep few and keep them rather short.

I have NO idea why they stay realistic though, i am also pained to compare 'Poly as better than CFC in ANY way.

Hey Troq. could we be barbarians. Since you have all that land that is undiscovered and it is where the barbs where for the Romans could we be them. Instead of getting a salary we just get a fixed army and every twenty years it grows like a pop. We would traval around and erracticly attack cities and provences for loot. And if a civ falls when where in its territory we can take over like what happened at the end of the roman Empire.

Troq when are you going to Make that game it looks cool and i would love to play.

Depends if I have time over the summer, I guess..

Hmmm... I think that the main problem, is that not much people seem to think like warmongers in my NESES. Oh come on! Peace loving ebfore WWI?! giving away whose lots of territory with no reason. Any respect for the defeated side during the negotiations?! Non-elected Presidents that stay in power forever, or monarchs living more then possible, no bloody revolutions or civil wars, palace plots, assasiantions, Trench Wars, colonial wars, list of those things might continue...

Also, I don't think that provicnes will solve it. I think that a world map based on exes or tiles, including phisical details and all shall do it much better.

Also, I think that in NES games that take place after World War I, Game Master might be UN Player - this solves the problem. ALso, I think that also, very important thing is that people will act realistically. Other problem is with EXACT tech level. Got any ideas?

Yeah, you could set the NES at present day and just enumerate the units...say 10 tanks you could buy, 3 levels of infantry, 10 jets, the naval assortment, perhaps even 5 bombers. Use real world examples....so the poorer nations would be buying outdated T-55's perhaps, just to field a huge force, but richer nations would have M1A1's. For trade, economy and such, just look at the nation in question's GDP, and per capita income. That gives you a good idea of the economic strength, and lets you know what nations can and cannot do certain things (nuclear weapons programs, tank research, etc.). I played something like this back on the old Prodigy BB's, and it worked real well.

The Troquelet seems to have an interesting research model in AMNES, with discoveries being semi-random (I think; I forget exactly) and smaller in scale than the huge breakthroughs represented in CivIII. Maybe a hybrid system would be in order; you'd research 3-4 small advances that would give you little advantages, and then every once in a while one big tech. Or better yet, break up the big techs even further, so that there's several different discoveries you have to find all of to get something big like nuclear weapons; this could lead to some interesting tech races.

One problem is simply lack of disclosure on the part of the moderator... not to pick on you, das, but in a couple of your NESses you've used labels such as "early modern" with no qualifier, when "early modern" could potentially describe anywhere from 1500 to 1975. I think most people assumed you meant early modern in Civ terms, which was a little bit later than what you appeared to have in mind...



As to lack of interesting events, I think it is a bad idea to rely on players alone to provide their own fuel; the essence of good roleplaying is sacrificing yourself for the good of the story, but few players (myself included) are really willing to go all the way, although many try. A happiness or contentment system might be in order, something like (again; I just don't have many examples, do I?) the Troquelet's luxury bids, so that moderators can have revolutions break out (in nation-civs with lots of unrest) automatically but not arbitrarily. That would help a number of things... if there was a game system for sub-nations breaking off, it would help stop the problem of 800 people declaring their independence as new nation-civs when there are already important playing spots unfilled. Plus it would naturally be a catalyst for war.

I think another issue is the ease of making alliances and of declaring or calling off war; it seems that if anyone gets ready to attack anyone else, huge alliances against them spring up overnight, then the whole war disappears.



Oh, one last thing: I do think that having different levels of power is a good thing, but maybe instead of defining which nations have the most land and power before the game and letting players pick on a first-come, first-serve basis, at least part of that should be randomized, although if a player wants to be the underdog they should be allowed to declare themselves a weaker nation without the random pick.

I have a couple of comments and problems needing to be solved.

I belive like most people, and that each NES needs a moderator, or DM like in D&D, that does not play a nation, but tries to regulate the game. This is what I'm trying to accomplish in Future NES, and trying to add spice.

I don't believe money is necessary in NES's. All that is needed is realistic players, or at least realistic decisions. And then if unrealistic decisions are made, then that is when the game moderator steps in.

Finally, more people are needed. I believe that ONE nes should be made, with five to seven moderators who have experience at NES's (UKNemesis, Das, Skilord, etc) who each have specific jobs. One might regulate trade, one might be warfare, one might be diplomacy...etc. This would definetly keep things going fastly.

Well, first we have to agree on what the NES is. Look at the variety, you have my hypothetical AGNES which is basically a board-game, and you have NES2 which is an RPG, and you have UKNES which is a moderated halfway sort of thing, not to mention all the others, and then there's the problem of time period, where we have NESes ranging from Rome to Star Wars.

Personally I think of the NES as about halfway in between Democracy and Diplomacy in Off-Topic. It would be cool if we could get together a bunch of people and play one large NES - say 10-15 nations and 3-5 moderators covering everything. Problems: we'd need to decide time period and what the exact rules would be, which given all the great ideas in different directions, should be fairly difficult :) !

I think money and luxury/science ARE necessary in the NES, because otherwise what is there besides moving your troops around and aggressive posturing? There's a lot more to being a ruler, and the more of it that's simulated in the game, the better! :)

If enough people want to do this HUGENES thing, we can have a NES Constitutional Convention of sorts to wrangle out the rules and setting/time period.

HUGENES? Me like HUGENES. Me want HUGENES!
It would make it so much easier to play when one doesn't have to keep an eye on three or four different ones...
As to the problem of wars, how about the moderator forcing the issue? For example, when all alliances are in place in a game the moderator says: Californian separatists attack American shipping convoys to call attention to their cause! Germany, France, Great Britain and Italy support the rebels, USA, Canada, Russia, and Egypt declare war on them!" and then the war must continue for at least a set time (one turn, for example). The sides would of course have to be evenly matched, so it was a fair chance for both...
That way, people would have to get involved in wars, would have to make alliances (so they don't risk standing alone), would have to give serious thought to their troop deployments, and wouldn't just sit around, backing down whenever pressure gets too high.

No offense wilboman, but I believe the leaders of nations should be able to make their own decisions about joining the war. The problem with my idea is simple: one war is declared to spice events up, then everyone declares war on them. We need to emphasize the consequences of war: citizen unreast, people DYING ( thats a big one), costs, and what other nations will think of you as.

I know in UKNES each time a player declares war or even comes close to doing so, everyone else threatens to gang up on him. I guess there's no solution to that but good diplomacy and alliances with other players. If 3 or 4 players secretly teamed up in UKNES there might actually be a war, like there was in SIMPLENES. So it's a player problem, not a game problem.

I think a NES with a large scale map, one which can show troops and cities on it would be a good idea, ie; a Britain based NES or something.

I agree about provinces and cities, they're a good idea, and I can't wait to play the Troq's latest NES.

In a uberNES, I would happily help moderate it. Although I'd be even happier to play it :p

Anyway, for my ditched UKNES(the one that the current one was going to be), I had some ideas:

Technology: You were able to buy technologies, but you had to go through a tech tree. You got about 1000 gold per turn, and a tech cost 500 gold, and there was about 25 advances in total. Plus you needed more than one advance for more deadly units, so buying one advance wouldn't give you the best army in the world, you had to continue to buy. Also, buying techs could be split between turns, ie; you could just pay 100 gold per turn towards advances, giving you a new tech every 5 turns. Also, some more deadly advances, ie; nuclear weapons or tanks, could cost anything up to 2500 gold, that's 2 and a half turn's gold!

I was thinking of something along the lines of provinces or cities for the game, and now for Troq's NES, I think maybe:
for each province, the moderator rolls two dice each go. The total gold spent on each province will decide it's loyalty. For 10 gold, the province will remain loyal(2 is lowest number possible, 10 gold makes it 12, which is completely loyal). But if you wanted to pay 5 gold, then a roll of over 7 would make the province rebel(2+5=7). If you pay no gold, then a roll of above 2 will make the province rebel. Each military unit in the province would add +1 to the number you have to roll above(ie; for 5 units, 2+5=7).

There is also scope here for bribing, as you could pay anything up to 10 gold into an enemy province. That gold is halved, and then used as a negative modifier to the number.

For example, if an enemy paid 5 gold for luxury in that province, and had 2 units there, then the province would rebel on above 9(2+5+2=9). However, if you paid 6 gold to bribe the province, then it would become above 6(6 divided by 2 is 3, 9-3=6).

If the province then rebelled, it would join your country. The margin of failure determines how many units would join you, or an independent nation if the province rebelled by itself. If the number was just one above it, ie; 8 when you needed 7 or below to stay neutral, no units rebel and they instead retreat to a friendly province, or stay and fight the rebel army. For 9, one military unit would join the rebels, for 10 two would and so on.

A rebel province would automatically get one unit to defend itself.

Finally, movement should be continuous between land and sea. Galleys should move the same as legions, just to make life easier. But make the sea provinces bigger than the land ones.

Finally, trading. I had a system where each nation had two resources, and all resources were needed to build every unit in the game(ie; knights needed iron and horses). Another variation could be to make provinces with certain resources in them, and the first to grab that province gets that resource. Each mine could be worth two resources per turn, one for you and one to trade. You could get an extra one to trade via an advance.

These are just cobbled together ideas, probably confusing and stupid ones.

But feel free to use any of them!

Nemesis

Forced war: I do agree that forcing players into war is probably too much, but I do think that having random revolutions would make excellent catalysts for war, especially if you declare a slice of territory seceding from the nation-civ; that way, land has already changed hands when the war breaks out, making the stakes a little bit higher. The nation experiencing revolution and its allies would of course want to put down the revolt and secure the lost land... but everyone else in the world has a small incentive to SUPPORT the rebels, which should hopefully be enough for a good balanced war.

If you wanted to go further, you could have civilian attitude pressure; instead of declaring "Canada, Spain, Italy, and Russia all declare war on Greece for putting down the Turkish rebels", you could declare "Public opinion in favor of supporting the Turkish rebellion soars in Canada, Spain, Italy, and Russia", and then make the people unhappy if the leader goes against public opinion.

The last issue is ease of diplomatic declaration. If there were some sort of cost or penalty associated with declarations of war and alliances, then these things wouldn't be thrown together and called off in so short a time; war, once declared, would be more likely to be followed through with until a truly collosal coalition came against the aggressors, but such huge alliances would also be rarer and harder to form and dissolve.

As for contentment and happiness and such, I think the simplest way to go would be to just condense happiness into a single nation-wide value, like an approval rating percentage. Spend money on luxuries and entertainment, approval rating goes up; do nasty things, approval rating goes down.

Lastly, on resources: I was toying around with writing a unified rules set for an industrial WWI-ish setting, and had a system whereby each nation-civ had 6 resource picks, with 4 strategic resources and then basically whatever luxury resources players want, with the restriction that players would have fewer picks if they wanted lots of different strategic resources (so they could pick one of each strategic resource and that's it, giving them access to all units but no luxuries or exports, or they could pick just two strategic resources and either have lots of those two to export or else lots of luxuries).

Hmmm, on the idea of making/breaking alliances and war, I think that for each MPP you have with ONE country, you should have to pay say 5% of your income. This would discourage huge alliances.
The reward for paying this would be that your troops can fight together with a small bonus. If they aren't in an alliance, troops which enter the same province fight each other as well as an enemy.

As for war, how about a -1 happiness modifier across your whole nation while you're at war? This would mean that money would have to be diverted from the war to keeping the people happy.

Also, for each province lost, an extra -1 modifier could be added to increase pressure upon the leader to come to terms.

But to stop bullies, each province that you take, until peace is declared, gets a -3 happiness modifier.

That makes it expensive to gain too much territory, and can mean that sometimes the territories will rebel to join their old nation.

Thoughts?

I may be posting some rules to a NES later on, not one I will actually run, but some thoughts for the uberNES.

Nemesis

I like the ideas of Random Passerby. Please keep me posted about that WWI idea, I would definetly like to look into that! As for UK's idea, I like the money that would have to spent on the keeping of the citizens happy cost, but franky I don't like the idea of provinces anounced by an earlier writer, I just seems like to much work. Remember the name of the game: Neverending STORY. Lets try to keep it simple and like a story?

Personally, I plan a WWII NES.

I don´t think you should penzlize wat too much uknemesis. The greatest problem in NES is the lack of War. As war is the highest possible action in a NES I don´t think you should penalize it.

I don't think war should really be penalised either, I was just trying to think of a way of reflecting war discontent. Only my first post was really ideas that I liked, the second was just a few ideas to solve problems.

Das, try to have objectives in the WW2 scenario, ie; capture Britain for Germany, or take Berlin for the Russians.

Just something to make it winnable and give people a reason for their actions.

Nemesis

For the WWII NES, make sure it's at the start...I want France :D...

Provinces don't take a lot of work, and they might be a good solution because it lets people know EXACTLY how much land and power/money you have, and it makes geography so much easier. Besides if you made certain provinces generate different amounts of money that might be an incentive to conquer it if it belongs to someone else and so on.

Agree that war shouldn't be penalized.

I dont believ war should be penalized, I was just agreeing to some great solutions. Think about it, if one nation declares war on another, one side will be alone, it always happens. I hate it when one nation goes to war against another and then all of a sudden the whole world is against him. And dont give me the crap about alliances, they hardly work. In my game, a naitons own alliance went agains it.

In general war shouldn't be penalized, but I do think that adding a few quirks to the system might help. What these things need most, I think, are more common, smaller-scale wars, rather than everybody-gang-up-on-someone-and-decimate-them wars. Just blindly harshly penalizing wars would probably be a bad idea, but penalizing extended wars might be in order. The problem would be finding a metric that would avoid the Civ3 representative government flaw: military governments can prolong pointless wars indefinitely just to make their democratic opponents wither under war weariness.

In the uknes at the moment, small wars have cropped up two places, and are proceeding to great effect. Sure enough, Toasty had to sacrifice himself to pull one off, but they're still a great outlet for aggression...

What we need is a way that alliances should work very well.
In addition to the payments of 5%, there should be some vital bonuses.
Uk's idea of the fighting together bonus is fine, but there should also be other ones, like increased movement speed, for example (during WWII there would never have been any convoys if it weren't for the various merchant and naval fleets of the allies working together, and without them, the Germans could have hauled things out a lot longer...)

There should also be a penalty for breaking an alliance, so we avoid stuff like in Jasons game. Maybe one should have to make or break alliances at the negotiating table, and then for a certain number of turns you have a disadvantage when attacking your former ally (your troops still see them as "friends").
A sneak attack from an ally (one made during an alliance, or before the official break) could cause the offended party's forces to have a large defence multiplier (they fight with true and honourable fury, for they have been wronged).

Just giving my two cents...

Hmm, what I see as one major influence missing in both Civ3 and the NES is supplies.

What I mean is that one unit can fight in a foreign land, trapped and under naval blockade, and survive. We need some supply lines etc, which would make sieges much more effective and give navies a much more important role. The UKNES shows this in some ways as transports are needed to deliver reinforcements, and they can be stopped(although suicide defence by the transport's defenders can get them through).

We need some type of way to show supplies, how I'm not sure.

Possibly each unit requires food, and only has enough for 3 turns alone. If it goes for longer than that without a link to home, it dies.

Any better ideas? Cause I think that's too rough around the edges.

But this idea would make attacks carefully planned, and also result in much more realistic combat.

Nemesis

No, not the real one! I've meant fictional one! Okay, I will start it tommorow. Oh and technology will now have not onyl levels but also soem importants notes 9liek tanks, railroads, several, sevaral...)

The idea of wilbowman about the alliances I do not see fit for a NES. With those kind of fictional rules it makes the NES less and less of realistic. If America broke ties with britain, would it have to suffer from a disadvantage when attacking a form ally? I think not. Im not trying to be a smart @$$ or diffitult here, and by all means it would be a great idea, Wilbowman, just it sort of takes away the realistic idea of the NES.

I have finally created a new NES but I am having yet more trouble with imaging! Whenever I try to open Imaging, it says it had an "internal error". How else can I post a .bmp file here?

I always use Paint lol, the XP version of it is good. Why not edit the bmp file in Paint, then save it as a jpg? That's what I always do.

Just always make sure you type the ending yourself, as otherwise it ends it in capitals, which the forum doesn't seem to like.

Nemesis

Announcement

Using some ideas from this thread I have started my own super-simple NES, the ART-N.E.S. Feel free to join!

(I left out luxuries and science I'm afraid because I wanted to keep it as streamlined as possible)...