Whenever I try to start a game, the game crashes, with a message saying that my computer failed to allocate video memory, and to try reducing my graphics settings, followed by a message saying that the program requested runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. I used to get this a lot with Vanilla, but it was fixed for the most part once I downloaded all the official patches. Now it's started again. I also found this in the ThemeParseLog file:

[Aug 13, 2007 - 14:20:57] Messages while processing 'Resource/Civ4.thm'

Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:401, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size3_Italic' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:402, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size3_BoldItalic' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:408, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size1_Bold' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Window.thm', Ln:3048, Col:9) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size1_Bold' not found
Error : Syntax - ('Civ4Theme_HUD.thm', Ln:887, Col:13) Unexpected '.' in the identifier assignment statement
Error : Syntax - ('Civ4Theme_HUD.thm', Ln:927, Col:13) Unexpected '.' in the identifier assignment statement

Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Shouldn't this be in the tech support thread?

Well, it is a BTS bug. So, any ideas, anyone?

Its not installed properly

Edit: Uninstal every thing, then reinstall every thing, but dont instal any patches until after BTS has instaled

Try doing what H&K said and also post your system specs...
And I still think this should be in the tech support forum because it isn't a bug w/ BTS, but a bug with your system.

I have a Gateway with Windows XP and Pentium 4.

how much ram do you have, and what kind of Gfx Card do you have. Also, make sure you do a reinstall, as it may be the only way to fix the problem.

2.49 GHz, 1.00 GB of RAM. I can't find the video card info.

Try this start>Run...> type devmgmt.msc , press enter, click the plus next to "Display adapters" and it should have video card info.
(The ThemeParseLog thing is nothing, I have it too, and BTS works fine)
Also, try putting the game into a window (My Documents>My Games>BTS>CivilizationIV.ini)
Look for this
; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = 1

change the 1>0

Any other advice? I tried changing it out of fullscreen mode, and it still gave me the same problem. I have a Mobility M9 video card. I tried installing it on another computer and it wouldn't even install.

Looks familiar.

PC: Win XP Home, Civ IV BtS V3.03, HP Pavilion, 2GHz, 1GB memory, NVIDIA GeForce 6200 Turbochase 256MB, latest driver (updated couple days ago).

After 1-2 hrs playing picture (=movement) freezes, display loses details (showing just ground and roads, no cities/workers/soldiers/mines etc etc), sometimes after a while details comes back and game continues (for a while) sometimes not -> crash. Used High/medium/low quality settings for graphics, no change.

Error message:

"Failed to allocate video memory. Please try reducing your graphics settings.
File:\Civilization4\SDKs\Gamebuyo2_0\CoreLibs\NiDX 9Renderer\NiDX9VBmanager.cpp,Line:1019"

And then:

"Runtime Error!
Program (folder)Civ4BeyondSword.exe
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in unusual way. Please contact the application support team etc etc."

And I consider this one Civ IV BtS error, not my system error because no graphical problems with other games/graphics and others seems to have same or same kind of problems.

I hope that these informations help to produce fix.

Wenla

To be honest, the reason why both of you are experiencing problems is because your Gfx cards aren't very good. You will probably have to upgrade.

To be honest, the reason why both of you are experiencing problems is because your Gfx cards aren't very good. You will probably have to upgrade.

What!? Can you be more precice and please tell me why my card is not suitable for Civ IV BtS, because I don't know it? Do you mean that all Civ players with NVIDIA GeForce 6200 TurboChase with 245 MB memory have problems like this? Do NVIDIA knows it? I don't have problems with other games (meaning graphical difficulties ;) )

This reply is NOT mean to be aggressive, but curious, because I really like to know why I should change my card. And (like you may see) I'm not a technically literated at all.

Wenla

1) For every gfx card, the second number (most of the time) tells you what 'level' of gfx card you have. 0-4 means budget (i.e Radeon X1300, Geforce 7100), 5-7 means mainstream, 8-9 means high-end.

2) That "TurboCache" thing might be what's killing your system. This is because TurboCache apparently uses system memory instead of memory on-board the GPU that is dedicated to it. This may be why the "failed to allocate video memory" thing comes from. In fact, I have a video card that uses something similar,and I have gotten a similar error, however it has some of its own on-board RAM too. Before buying a new card, you may want to try reducing the amount of RAM your card uses from the BIOS.

Nvidia TurboCache website: http://www.nvidia.com/page/turbocache.html

1) For every gfx card, the second number (most of the time) tells you what 'level' of gfx card you have. 0-4 means budget (i.e Radeon X1300, Geforce 7100), 5-7 means mainstream, 8-9 means high-end.

2) That "TurboCache" thing might be what's killing your system. This is because TurboCache apparently uses system memory instead of memory on-board the GPU that is dedicated to it. This may be why the "failed to allocate video memory" thing comes from. In fact, I have a video card that uses something similar,and I have gotten a similar error, however it has some of its own on-board RAM too. Before buying a new card, you may want to try reducing the amount of RAM your card uses from the BIOS.

Nvidia TurboCache website: http://www.nvidia.com/page/turbocache.html

Thanks for the explanation. Two comments anyhow:

1) reported also in other topics with cards with second postion number more than 0-4.

2) This was too technical for me, but this seems to be endless wheel like:
By a new PC -> buy a game -> play a game -> buy a new game -> not enough resources -> buy a new PC/recources -> play a game -> continue on and on, starting at any of these stages...

Still, my locig tells that there is something wrong with Civ IV and particulary with BtS ecpecially after reading so many reports considering graphics.

I really hope that patch will solve this one because I really like this game.

Wenla

2) This was too technical for me, but this seems to be endless wheel like:
By a new PC -> buy a game -> play a game -> buy a new game -> not enough resources -> buy a new PC/recources -> play a game -> continue on and on, starting at any of these stages...


What I mean is that your card doesn't have its own memory, so it borrows some from the computer instead, which is bad.

So I would recommend waiting for the patch, as you said, and possibly reinstalling CIV in the meantime.

What I mean is that your card doesn't have its own memory, so it borrows some from the computer instead, which is bad.

Are you sure (OBS: I'm not arguing!)? I read your pointer article twice and got the understanding that TurboChase uses viedoa card memory and 'conventional' memery if needed. Most propably you are right and I'm wrong, but that is how I it understood.

So I would recommend waiting for the patch, as you said, and possibly reinstalling CIV in the meantime.

I'm waiting for the patch...

Wenla

Looks familiar.

PC: Win XP Home, Civ IV BtS V3.03, HP Pavilion, 2GHz, 1GB memory, NVIDIA GeForce 6200 Turbochase 256MB, latest driver (updated couple days ago).

After 1-2 hrs playing picture (=movement) freezes, display loses details (showing just ground and roads, no cities/workers/soldiers/mines etc etc), sometimes after a while details comes back and game continues (for a while) sometimes not -> crash. Used High/medium/low quality settings for graphics, no change.

Error message:

"Failed to allocate video memory. Please try reducing your graphics settings.
File:\Civilization4\SDKs\Gamebuyo2_0\CoreLibs\NiDX 9Renderer\NiDX9VBmanager.cpp,Line:1019"

And then:

"Runtime Error!
Program (folder)Civ4BeyondSword.exe
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in unusual way. Please contact the application support team etc etc."

And I consider this one Civ IV BtS error, not my system error because no graphical problems with other games/graphics and others seems to have same or same kind of problems.

I hope that these informations help to produce fix.

Wenla

So, patch V3.13 didn't solved this problem, at least not for me.

Looks like my BtS gaming time is going to the end and this helps me also to make my decission to buy/not buy when/if next Civ version will be released. It's really a pity that they can use Sid Meier's good name with products like this.

Signing off

Frustrared Wenla

Does it not help to reduce the level of renderer in your BTS graphics options?

I agree that Civ4 puts a PC under quite a lot of stress, but that is the price paid for the 3D graphics.

Out of interest, do you run any virus-checkers/firewalls/internet security programs in the background when playing? Such programs take up quite a sizeable amount of RAM and processor time, and often cause problems with games.

Also, what "other games" do you play on your system? Should give me an idea of what sort of performance you are used to?

Does it not help to reduce the level of renderer in your BTS graphics options?

No

Out of interest, do you run any virus-checkers/firewalls/internet security programs in the background when playing? Such programs take up quite a sizeable amount of RAM and processor time, and often cause problems with games.

Yes, but I thought this when problems started, but turning those things off didn't help.

Also, what "other games" do you play on your system? Should give me an idea of what sort of performance you are used to?

Like Civ IV (before BtS), EU III, HoMM V (and it's extenions), SE V. These are newist and have same/similar/harder PC and/or graphic card requirements.

Wenla

Ah, just noticed that you're also running on a laptop. Now I'm not saying that laptops can't perform for games, but honestly it's not what they are intended for. They have BIOS and hardware limits installed to help deal with heat management, and often choke graphics cards before they reach peak performance. I am sorry, I myself own a laptop for studying and love it. But you will reach limits with how far you can go graphically.

Also, your 2GHz processor will be limiting how well Civ4 performs (especially as BTS adds new AI routines and Events). I know that compared to, say, F.E.A.R. the Civ4 game looks tame. But there is a lot more going on in the background than you would think. I have a 2.8Ghz processor and I find that it still lags at times.

Also the games you mentioned are not really on a par with the resources that Beyond the Sword will use on your machine. They use a mix of isometric 3D and 3D rendered to 2D, wheras BTS has a true 3D engine (the Gamebryo engine as used in such games as Elder Scrolls: Oblivion). I agree that it seems quite poorly optimised at times, but you really should notice a difference by lowering all the graphics options to medium. If you do not, then I suspect that your processor is the bottleneck on your system.

I am sorry that I don't have any better advice to give you. Could you do me a favour and press CTRL-ALT-DELETE, go to Processes tab and count the number of active processes. Would give me an idea of resource usage. :)

Ah, just noticed that you're also running on a laptop.:)

(I'm assuming that you are talking to me, Wenla.)

No, I don't have laptop.

Also, your 2GHz processor will be limiting how well Civ4 performs (especially as BTS adds new AI routines and Events). I know that compared to, say, F.E.A.R. the Civ4 game looks tame. But there is a lot more going on in the background than you would think. I have a 2.8Ghz processor and I find that it still lags at times.

Also the games you mentioned are not really on a par with the resources that Beyond the Sword will use on your machine. They use a mix of isometric 3D and 3D rendered to 2D, wheras BTS has a true 3D engine (the Gamebryo engine as used in such games as Elder Scrolls: Oblivion). I agree that it seems quite poorly optimised at times, but you really should notice a difference by lowering all the graphics options to medium. If you do not, then I suspect that your processor is the bottleneck on your system.

Reqarding background information of DVD-box, developers tell that minimum requirement is 1,2GHz and recommended is 1,8GHz. I have better than that. Are you succesting that developers are lying (like it looks just now)? :lol:

I am sorry that I don't have any better advice to give you. Could you do me a favour and press CTRL-ALT-DELETE, go to Processes tab and count the number of active processes. Would give me an idea of resource usage. :)

Counted 52 (both user and system processes), but iddle 99% all the time (as far as I can understand, those are 'just in case', not actually active processes). Sorry, I'm not very PC-literated like you can see...

Wenla

Wenla, I also do believe that you graphic card can be at the origin of the problem (i can not by certain as we are not in front of your computer for testing it...)
I desagree slightly with Lobsang1979 concerning laptops: it is very possible to play on laptops, but you do need a strong configuration (I use a Dell Precision M90 with a high end NVidia QFX 512Mb openGL, designed for engineering tasks).

However, I totally agree with Lobsang1979 concerning the memory ... What I do not like on your card is the fact that you share the memory. If it is a 256 "turbo cache", it means that it is in fact probably with 128Mb onboard, and use an extra 128MB from your RAM memory.
At this point, it is then 1Gb of RAM - what you run in the background - what the card takes...
ON TOP OF THIS, turbocaches need a larger swap file.
A swap file is an espace reserved in your hard disk for writting tempo data.
As a rule of thumb, you should have a swap file the double of the size of your RAM memory, and not fragmented...
In your case, it should be 2*1Gb = 2048 Mb
Go to "Control Panel", "System", "Advanced" tab, "performance" block then "settings", into "performance options" choose again the tab: "advanced", then "change" in the block for virtual memory.
Select "Custom size", type 2048 into "initial" AND "maximum" box, click on the button "SET" after this. Then "OK" and reboot the computer.

It is VERY possible, as you say it happens after a while, that you actually play using 500 something of Mb of available RAM, and the swap files does not clean up well. In this case you can also have a problem directly with your hard disk...
If your hard disk has damaged sectors, and the sectors are placed somewhere in the swap file, you can crash. In this case, you will have crashes with any kind of application that heavily read and write in the swap files.
It is also possible that the swap file is very fragmented, and your computer can not catch up with all processes required by Civ... after a while, it says "enough"...
Your hard disk can also be slow, and has problem keeping up reading/writing data: at a time, the memory buffer can not handle anymore the writing delay...

It would be nice if you can, after playing say 1 hour,
- hit the Alt+Tab buttons (or the button with Microsoft's Window on hit, bottom of your keyboard)
- Ctrl+Alt+Del for calling Task manager
- click on the Tab "Performance"
- hit the buttons Alt + Print Screen for taking an image of the current screen
- open PAINT ("Accessories", Paint) and paste you image in it. Save it as JPG for making it smaller. Then upload the image here, so then we can have a look at the data with your computer running Civ...

Finally, what is your anti-virus software? Some, like Norton (especially N360) takes a lot of memory and check deeply all processes. If Civ does not receive some data on time, it can crash thinking that the data has not been correctly recorded in the memory: the error message is then about lack of memory, but the message is misleading and the problem comes from another origin...

Finally (num 2...): you can also have a virus, a spyware/malware that works hard in the background, killing some resources. As Civ uses programing formats - ex. xml - that are not common with other games more graphical (Civ is a kind of huge data base with an interface), during a game all virus/spyware can be triggered and active...

ignore.............

Counted 52 (both user and system processes), but iddle 99% all the time (as far as I can understand, those are 'just in case', not actually active processes). Sorry, I'm not very PC-literated like you can see...

Wenla

Ok, as a guide let me tell you that I only have 19 processes running at present (inc. Firefox I am writing this with!). When someone tells me they have 52 processes running it suggests that they have installed a number of programs on their machine and have not been very choosy about how they run.

Many software programs install processes that run in the background of your system and eat into RAM and processor resources, and some even remain there after uninstallation due to poor programming. The most likely culprits, as jprc points out above, are virus checkers and malware; not to mention all the useless crap that Windows XP launches unnecessarily! Plus, HP computers often come with a lot of preinstalled junk software.

And sorry, I realise now that the HP Pavilion model also comes in desktop format, as you have. My mistake.

As for minimum system requirements, they are just that. Minimum. In other words, they guarantee that the game will launch and play, but it will not do so in a very playable manner. And, yes, people can argue over semantics all day but the fact will remain that you still have the hardware you have. I am trying to provide some constructive advice seeing as you asked, so please don't shoot the messenger! :lol:

I still also think that jprc is correct about your graphics card being one of the bottlenecks... It's not so much that it's clock speed, etc. is too slow. The problems are likely to do with Turbocache 'borrowing' memory and Pagefile resources from a PC that is already being pushed due to the number of processes running.

I am sorry if it is hard to hear, but your PC is quite limited as far as today's gaming is concerned. Upgrading the graphics card with a better model might improve things, but your 2Ghz processor is still going to be a bottleneck anyway. My advice is to search the internet for some decent PC tweaking articles and see if you can streamline your machine a bit, or buy some new hardware. :)

Wenla, Lobsang1979 is correct, you have way to many processes running. When idle, I only have 22 (excluded task manager), 17-18 when playing games due to disabling explorer and AVG.

Here's a really through and extension system tweaking guide that I think will really help you if you give the time to go through it:
http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

Here's a really through and extension system tweaking guide that I think will really help you if you give the time to go through it:
http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

I second this wholeheartedly... Tweakguides is where I get all my system optimisation tips from too. Top notch site! :goodjob:

Thanks everybody for support.

It was not my meaning to "shoot messenger" or anything like that, I'm gracefull of all good advices. My statement was mostly "common grunting" for 2K, not for kind members of this community. Any how, I'm oldfashioned man and I consider written text in DVD-box translated someting like "If you fullfill these PC-requirements and yet better if you fullfill these recommendations, it's save for you to give your money for us and you can play this game and it works" as a contract between me and them. I understand that it is not (of course) that simple, but...

I keep my PC (as far as I know) as good condition as possible (=no viruses, disk disfracmented reculary, virtual memory large enough etc) but as I have told before, I'm not very PC-literared but I understand computing quite a lot (made my career with computers).

Anyhow, PC is for me a tool and "fun box". I'm also too lazy to start working with it just to get game running as promised. I'm retired and because I have all my time only for my self (I'm a:king:), I play a lot and I have several other also good games to play so that I don't die if I can't play Civ IV BtS fully ( I can play small and short games and also scenarios what I have tried work fine so far).

Once more time, thanks for everybody.

Wenla

I understand very well that all the tuning part is not your "cup of tea"...

But don't give up (immediately).

Really try to post here an image of the "pressure"
I recall:
- launch a Civ/BTS game and play a game.
- after a little while (at least 30mn), hit (together) the Alt+Tab buttons : Civ is still running but you go back to the desktop
- Ctrl+Alt+Del for calling Task manager
- select the Tab "Performance"
- hit the buttons Alt + Print Screen for taking an image of the current screen
- open PAINT ("Accessories", Paint) and paste you image in it. Save it as JPG for making it smaller. Then upload the image here, so then we can have a look at the data with your computer running Civ...
It is really easy, trust me on this one (on this one only...)

You should give us an image like this (it is an example taken right now from my laptop):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/100907/sample-task_manager.JPG

OK jprc, I'll do that but it takes some time because I don't have currently long game going on. Situation is so that game doesn't hickup (even with large map/marathon length) first, not even when whole map (panacea (?)) is releaved, but some time after that when there is more and more activities going on in map (or so I see it). With this style game takes normally 15 hrs playing time and hickups start usually about half of that.

I haven't this happened ever with any scenarios I have been playing so far because (IMHO) scenarios have limited map size and/or limited time.

Getting back

Wenla

Okei, here we are and attached is the picture after first hickup (game usually gives warnings before chrashing).

OS language is for Finnish, but I don't think that it makes any difficulties for you.

Comments?

Adv. thanks

Wenla

Sorry Wenla, a bit late answering (sickness)...

I assume you took the screen shot with Civilization and a game still running in the background!! Correct me if I am wrong as conclusions would be very totally different!

Your computer is a monoprocessor. But what is curious is that your processor is not overcharged and can handle more.
In fact I should have been clearer, my bad: you should start "Windows task manager" BEFORE starting the game. During the game, the software records the peaks and maxi-mini, allowing a better understanding of the moment of charges (especially when you end a turn and the comp has to make all calculations...).
With the image you provided, the peak comes when you start "Windows Task Manager", it is normal, then it stabilizes at about 20% of charge. If Civ works in the background, it shows only idle activity as you do not move, open screens and the computer has nothing to do, hence the processor is not overloaded. Unfortunately we do not see the charge when you play.
The commit charge for the kernel is low. It is only a bit higher than my own computer when I run only Explorer ... but I have 3 layers of protections in my computer, taking its toll on my system ...

Conclusion 1:
Your processor is fine regarding its capacity and specifications.
However, it does not mean the processor is good nor stable: if it starts to be faulty, it can overheat and switch off parts of its channels, resulting in crashes. No way to know this at distance without using "sophisticated" software and I doubt you want to play "mecanics" that far.


Now, the memory part. Your page file (or swap file) is only at 1/3. I still wonder if you took this Task Manager screenshot with civilization running in the background! If yes, it is fine: your swap file (it is a buffer, a waiting room for data, and a short-time archive zone all together) is well sized and there is little delay between writing data and processing data.

BUT, the "käytettävissä" is WAY too low with only 174K available!!!
It confirms the possible problem with the graphic card

I explain (and summarize: civilization "purists" would certainly say more but I try to keep it more global):
As soon as you end a turn, calculations will use more memory, but it is not a huge part. The processor will handle the calculation of all formulas pretty well (ex.: calculating promotions, costs, positions and status of units, culture, etc...).
Then the processor do this for each civilization. Known or not by you, it is the same: the AI plays in the background. Data will then be written back to the database, new units/buildings/improvements created by you and the AI are added or updated: the memory is sollicited for storing information and write it down.
Then the visual part: if you have activated the option "follow friendly or enemy moves", teh screen scroll from unit to another one. BIG work in teh background where the display has to be updated quickly. The video card uses a lot during this process and can even take more than its share of memory.
If, in the middle of this you have some defensive battles (you are attacked during the "end of turn"), and you have kept enable the options "show animated defense" (not sure if it is exactly this... I don't have Civ installed on the computer I am typing this), the computer will animate the fight and take more its toll on the video memory...
Finally, the turns end, and all visal effects are calculated for showing you your "new" world, and the memory charge drops. It starts again as soon as you move a unit or open some screens needed a good collect of data (ex: F4, F5, F8, F9...)
Each time a new unit is created, by you or the AI even unknown to you, it is a few octets of memory reserved for keeping this unit "alive".
Each time building is created, all display are updated for the city animation, and a few octets more.
But the video cards really really suffers the most when your explorer find more and more land, you make discoveries (ex.: satellite!), or exchange maps. The processor has the same charge for calculating what units do and the effect of buildings/cities. But the video card is more and more sollicited for drawing the map when the "fog of war" (the back zone) tends to retract, and you scroll the map left and right.


Conclusion 2:
Your 1Gb RAM memory uses precious octets for the Graphic card (turboshare), and you have too little memory available for high calculations and go to late games!
You have 174K in reserve! It means than you will crash if you try to reload a game that is big (look at your saved game size!), or reach too many buildings/units for you AND ALL civilizations/barbarians.
The video texture, is important but if I recall well you said that you already set it at minimum.
I suspect that your video cards does not have well designed drivers (do you have specific drivers for your video card or do you use the standard Nvidia catalyst or Ati drivers?). I have the feeling that your card does not manage well its load, use too much memory at peaks, and especially the "turbocache" function does NOT CLEAN the memory from unused/obsolete data. It is something common in assembled video card, i.e. chip from a facturer put on a locally designed support card. It is why I prefer to buy a high brand card with less memory rather than buying a video card with double memory and half price: there is always a catch: the video processor is a Nvidia or ATI, but the electronic around is my-grand-mother-in-Seoul design. A ferrari engine in a volvo s40: something has to break...

My advises:
1- do not go bigger than STANDARD size for maps
2- stay with 8 civilizations maximum
3- no EPIC or MARATHON game speed
4- be sure you desabled most "animation" options, and do not follow friendly moves
5- antialiasing = 0 (in Options, graphics)
6- do NOT load mods: it comes as an added layer on the game and will kill your memory. If you play a scenario, play only all scenarii provided with the game, but it will take anyway more memory at some peaks or has the risk to open the door to memory leaks (memory used in excess and/or not cleaned up after use)
7- add another bar of memory, from 512Mb to 1Gb, that has the same speed as your current memory. If you do so, yu can try large size for maps and up to 12 civs.
8- next time you buy a computer, do not go Vista, have 2Gb minimum, have a video card 256Mb onboard (not shared) compatible with ATI/NVidia drivers.


Now a note about minimum specifications:
A minimum specification is equivalent to this:
You need to go to work? (not you, as you are retired...), so then here is the minimum spec:
- buy a bicycle.
A mini spec is made for allowing you to do something, but it is the equivalent of going camping in October in Finland. Possible is not it? But I let it to you...
Minimum specifications are designed for minimum computer set up!!!
It means that you have a computer running 1: Windows, 2: the game. Full point. You explode the minimum specifications if you run in the background:
- anti virus software
- spyware/malware software
- firewalls
- messengers (MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, etc...)
- HP printers, with full software/driver installations
- wireless / lan network
- MS Office 2003 or 2007
- automated updating of your system (ex.: for all
- unadequate operating system
- Explorer, and addins (Macromedia, quicktime...)
It is easy to go much further that what is acceptable. You see a box, read the minimum spec, and think: ok, my computer can handle it.
Wrong. Your computer handled it at its birth, and hoping that it did not came with "garabge" trial software cluttering already its capacity...
Think always a minimum spec as 50% of what it is really, in terms of memory and video!!
It say mini 1Gb, go for 2. It say 128Mb video card, go for 256, and NOT SHARED with your regular memory.
Processors are powerfull enough nowadays for not being really an issue.
Now, if you buy expansion packs, the minimum spec are not anymore valid... expansion are made ... for expanding a game, hence using more and more your computer.

jprc, thanks a lot about your answer! I'll shorten quotes just those needed reply/more question/other comments.

First as an overall: I understand computing principals quite (?) well, but I don't know very well "soul of the PC" (OS etc etc), just using it as a tool and now a days as a "fun box". I'm glad that you haven't used PC-jargon.

Sorry Wenla, a bit late answering (sickness)...

Not at all, I'm asking and you are answering.

I assume you took the screen shot with Civilization and a game still running in the background!!

Yes, you are right

In fact I should have been clearer, my bad: you should start "Windows task manager" BEFORE starting the game.

Sorry, I shoul'd have thought this.

Conclusion 1:
Your processor is fine regarding its capacity and specifications.
However, it does not mean the processor is good nor stable: if it starts to be faulty, it can overheat and switch off parts of its channels, resulting in crashes. No way to know this at distance without using "sophisticated" software and I doubt you want to play "mecanics" that far.

I suppose that physically processor is OK, because I don't have problems with any other application/game. Of course I can't be sure about that.

BUT, the "käytettävissä" is WAY too low with only 174K available!!!
It confirms the possible problem with the graphic card

I explain (and summarize: civilization "purists" would certainly say more but I try to keep it more global.

I understand this and what follows (until next quote).

Then the visual part: if you have activated the option "follow friendly or enemy moves", teh screen scroll from unit to another one. BIG work in teh background where the display has to be updated quickly. The video card uses a lot during this process and can even take more than its share of memory.
If, in the middle of this you have some defensive battles (you are attacked during the "end of turn"), and you have kept enable the options "show animated defense" (not sure if it is exactly this... I don't have Civ installed on the computer I am typing this), the computer will animate the fight and take more its toll on the video memory...

I have both of those options on. I'll turn those off.

Conclusion 2:
The video texture, is important but if I recall well you said that you already set it at minimum.

Yes

I suspect that your video cards does not have well designed drivers (do you have specific drivers for your video card or do you use the standard Nvidia catalyst or Ati drivers?).

I'm not sure, but most propably it's standard Nvidia catalyst.

I have the feeling that your card does not manage well its load, use too much memory at peaks, and especially the "turbocache" function does NOT CLEAN the memory from unused/obsolete data.

You are most propably right with this also, game/computer takes lot of activities (cleaning?) after chrash or normal ending. I can hear it...


My advises:
1- do not go bigger than STANDARD size for maps

This would take most of the fun away!

2- stay with 8 civilizations maximum

That has been my way to play already

3- no EPIC or MARATHON game speed

This would take most of the fun away, again and more! I really like to play long, epic games.

4- be sure you desabled most "animation" options, and do not follow friendly moves
5- antialiasing = 0 (in Options, graphics)

These are OK

6- do NOT load mods: it comes as an added layer on the game and will kill your memory. If you play a scenario, play only all scenarii provided with the game, but it will take anyway more memory at some peaks or has the risk to open the door to memory leaks (memory used in excess and/or not cleaned up after use)

Haven't tried any mods (yet), played scenarios with BtS and those worked fine. Propably will try mods with BtS, but if those fail, I'm only dissapointed, not hurt...

7- add another bar of memory, from 512Mb to 1Gb, that has the same speed as your current memory. If you do so, yu can try large size for maps and up to 12 civs.

I understand very well this recommendation, but propably don't do it just for the one game, not even for Civ BtS...

8- next time you buy a computer, do not go Vista, have 2Gb minimum, have a video card 256Mb onboard (not shared) compatible with ATI/NVidia drivers.

My current PC is less than two years old (I know, I know...), so it takes time before I buy a new one. Any how, this PC was bought when I was at work, an that's why more "home work" PC than "gaming PC", but next time when I buy PC, it's more "gaming PC" and differs from current one.


Now a note about minimum specifications:
A minimum specification is equivalent to this:
You need to go to work? (not you, as you are retired...), so then here is the minimum spec:
- buy a bicycle.
A mini spec is made for allowing you to do something, but it is the equivalent of going camping in October in Finland. Possible is not it? But I let it to you...

You are right with camping possibilities in October in Finland (no thanks),
but others I like to grunt more (not for you, of course) about minimum/recommended requirements because you have to trust those:

I understand what minimum requirements means, and that's why I usually look at recommended system requirements. If I don't fullfill those, I know that my PC is not powerfull enough for that game. I don't usually have any problems with that because turn-based strategy games (I don't usually play any other type of games) don't usually need so much system power than for example "action" games.

Once more thank you all, especially jprc

Wenla

I have set up below what I consider as minimum setup... of course, it is a question of feelings, I just give an example...
For official tips, have also a look at this page:

http://www.firaxis.com/support/support_detail.php?gameid=6&cat=5


Game:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/100907/civ4BTS-Options1.JPG
Important to "wait at the end of each turn", for giving more time to the computer to write/read/process data between turns, in case the turn is very short.
The "show enemy move" should be enable only when you are at war. It can be enabled/desabled during a game.
Avoid the have units in auto mode: try to have manual control over them (slower, hence good for the charge)

Graphics
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/100907/civ4BTS-Options2.JPG
1024x768 is very fine (or an equivalent for wide screens). Avoid higher resolutions. The scroll in/out does anyway a good job.
Effects desabled.
I set up "no movies", which is a pity really, but wonder (and win/defeat) movies call an "external" application (bink) for playing the movies, and it can add some extra memory leak (video data not cleaned up well after playing and reverting to core game). You can also try to use lower resolution movies (and tick on "no movies"). You will find the official low resolution files at firaxis:
Low-Res Movies - Intro 68.09 MB
Low-Res Movies - Victory 40.19 MB
Low-Res Movies - Wonders 271.04 MB
http://www.firaxis.com/support/support_detail.php?gameid=6&patch=1

Audio:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/100907/civ4BTS-Options3.JPG
I personnaly find the music so nice and apropriate. what a pity. But turning off the music will save also the external memory needed for playing mp3s (I say "external" when it uses a licensed product for reading/playing and is not owned by Firaxis)
Be sure that you use "system config" for your speakers, or select "stereo" in the combo box.

Other:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/100907/civ4BTS-Options4.JPG
I am sure you do not expect this solution...
Set up an alarm when you start playing. When the alarm rings, do as if it is a power cut and do NOT authorise yourself to do "one more turn". Exit the game, exit the software and wait 15s (anyway, it is good for your health). make a break, touch nothing in your computer and let the hard disk do its "crrrr crrr crrrr" sound (releasing all tempo files...). Then reload Civ, load your game, and play until the next alarm (you need to set up the alarm every time , or you can save it in a profile).
Actually, it can be the best solution for you!
You play a large map?. Cut every hour and relax a minute. Then reload the game from a fresh opening.
You made something wrong and want to load a few turns before your wrong decisions? Quit Civ, and reload. Beside allowing your computer to clean itself, it will force you to be more cautious in your decisions!
If you use Shift-F5 (quick save), you need to exit Civ...
Do NOT use Shift-F8 (quick reload). If you want to load, exit totally the game and come back by reopening always a fresh session...

Here it is. Sorry for all this bla bla. It is a bit like a consultant who delivers at expensive cost solutions that anyone in the factory knew already... The only difference with me, is that I am an international adviser, costing astronomic amounts (projects, paid by WB, EU, ...), and trying to say things that every one knows already but don't want/wish to hear...
"jargon"? not my style. Here, I have to say to peudo illustrissimo-senior-doctors that they should not put the photocopier, the 4 computers, the 4 laser printers and the electrical heater (it is now an awfull 22c) on the same 1920 Portuguese plug (that was designed for a bedside lamp - as the ministry I work in was designed to be an hotel before the independence war started (1975).

(try upgrading the memory, just a bit...)
(do not hesitate to apply latest Firaxis patches! Patches often add better memory management)

Thanks again, jprc!

I'm not quoting this time, just some comments.

Game settings: quite like I have allready (ticked off movements).

Graphic settings: quite like I have allready, must to check few (animations, effects).

Music: I'm a music lover and music is only one thing in Civ IV what is better than in Civ II... So, if no music, no playing. Music stays.

No alarms, I don't like to be told how long I have been playing. My wife is the only alarm I accept (we have been married about 35 years so she is used to my playing and that's why not alarming too often). Strange thing is that ( and I must admit that I'm not very sure about this) if I just quit playing and start again, game/PC doesn't clean everything needed off. That happens only when restarting Pc. Just a feeling.

I save Civ before every turn-end manually, not using quick save/load. Reboot PC when chrash ( no other alternatives because of display condition).

Telling known things to the customer? I'm used that (I was project/program manager and had often to tell for customer after contract signing what they really had ordered...), so no harm. My principal was rather tell too much than too little.

Using allways with all games latest patches.

Once more time, thanks

Wenla

I once more time thank you all about good advices, but my sad duty is to report that those (what I tried) didn't helped. And jprc, you was (of course) right when you told me that mods don't do better. There was two interesting mods (Road to War and Final Frontier), but couldn't continue with those very far.

So, I have to give up playing Civ IV BtS ( :cry: ) and only two thinks left to do:
- wait when/if next patch comes and if (to be honest I doupt it) it corrects this my (and many other's) little problem
- wait until I'll buy next PC, it can take couple of years, but I save installation disks and patches...

So long and good gaming to all

Wenla

Last post for me in this thread. too sad it did not work.
Wenla, as far as I understood, you are retired. Sorry for being straigth, but when you retire you usely have 2 things happening:
1- you have less money available for renewing (fancy) equipment and you need to prioritize more.
2- you have reached the winter of your life, and 2 years in the future contains always more optimism that saying "2 years later" when you are in your twenties.
If 1, is a problem, why not selling it, or getting a good discount by trading it in ... If it is not a problem, 2 years is ... well, 730 rising sun and it is a lot...

I have not tried yet Final Frontier as I am enthusiastic with the dark fantasy mod Fall for Heaven (http://kael.civfanatics.net/), which is the full and much much more developped version of the BTS scenario "Age of Ice"...

NVIDIA released new driver version (Force Wave Release Version 163.75, dated (European format) 6.11.2007) included information about improved memory management because of problems with several games. Civ BtS was not mentioned, but upgraded driver and proper (?) testing with Final Frontier (huge/marathon, some 4-5 hrs continious playing sessions) and so far seems to be fine! Haven't got so far ever before, no single crash at least yet. When/if I get this FF game to the 'normal' end, will test with 'base' BtS also. Let you know when done and will report observations.

NVIDIA owners who had similar problems as I have/had, worth of trying!

Back on line...

Wenla

:)
Happy to see that you continue your "Search & Rescue" mission!
Give us the result, after some games. I suppose this new version can address a memory leak for cards with partially shared memory (your case) and it is good to know...

Give us the result, after some games.

Yes, I will. It takes (even with my long sessions) several days, but any how...

I suppose this new version can address a memory leak for cards with partially shared memory (your case).

Yes, that's how I understood explanation from NVIDIA.

Wenla

FF test finished, results are quite good. Game (huge/marathon, 619 turns, 25,2 hrs total gaming time, several 4-5 hrs continious playing sessions) got slower when entering to the end-game stage, but I don't know if reason for this is graphic management or my PC, but most important thing (at least for me) is that there was not a single crash!

Starting to test with 'base' BtS now and let you know.

Wenla

huge/marathon, 619 turns, 25,2 hrs total gaming time, several 4-5 hrs continious playing sessions...

Oh God! No one on Earth can be 100% sure that she/he won't crash at a point or another with huge + marathon!!!
It often happens after reloading several times.
It is perfectly normal to have a slower inter-session game once you have civilizations with more improvements, units, people, etc...
Between each turn, it will start to take more and more its toll.
Have a look at your automated saved game and you will see them growing. Toward the end, you will have made contact with all civs, and explored all the map: this moves many background calculations to the foreground as any result can be seen by you by simply scrolling the map. Beforehand, the game is only doing background calculations as it does not need to actually display a result on a map, as it is still in the fog of war...

Wenla, I can assure you that you now entered the club.

It is perfectly normal to have a slower inter-session game once you have civilizations with more improvements, units, people, etc...


I can understand that and that's why I'm only testing if there are crashes because of graphical behaviour. These give you early warnings because of similar symptoms every time before crash. I think/hope that I can make a difference between these and 'normal' crash...

Wenla

Tested with 'base' BtS (huge/marathon, whole map releaved, turns 829, gaming time 12,4 hrs, year 18XX, not near of the end game).

Graphic settings "High", crashed.
Graphic settings "Midle (or is it Medium)", crashed.
Graphic settings "Low", crashed.

End of testing.
End of gaming with BtS.

Bye

Wenla

if it is BTS 3.13, so then the computer simply reached its maximum, updated driver or not...
If it is BTS 3.0 or 3.01, it is imperious to update to 3.13 as they have streamlined some memory use...

if it is BTS 3.13, so then the computer simply reached its maximum, updated driver or not...
If it is BTS 3.0 or 3.01, it is imperious to update to 3.13 as they have streamlined some memory use...

First one (3.13).

Wenla

I downloaded the patches and still have the same problem :(. I remember with Civ4 I believe it was the same error I had it could be fixed by going into one of the text files and changing something about the graphics texture or something from a 1 to a 0 or vice-versa.

So has anyone come up with any user-generated patches that might be able to help me? I remember I had a similar problem when I installed the first Civ IV, but this was solved with the patches plus editing something having to do with graphics/texture in one of the game text files.

I finally got upgraded my PC (memory => 3Gb + NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT) and I can give a fresh start for BtS. If this upgrade doesn't help, there is nothing else to do, except give up playing BtS for ever...

Wenla

@ Emperor Mansa:
I am sure you already gave a try to the unofficial BTS 3.13 patch, did you?:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6019403&postcount=1

@ Wenla:
If it does not work after ugrading with 3Gb ram and G8800GT, I know how you could look like...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2633/inabadmoodvm3.jpg

Wenla[/B]:
If it does not work after ugrading with 3Gb ram and G8800GT, I know how you could look like...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2633/inabadmoodvm3.jpg

What was the short ... oh, yes: LOL

Wenla