As the title says, I'm playing as Qin Shi Huang, using a SE going for a cultural victory. This was inspired by the ALC, and I'll be using a similar format for my posts.

Round 0: 4000 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5831601#post5831601)
Round 1: 4000 BC - 3200 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5842680#post5842680)
Round 2: 3200 BC - 2200 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5851809#post5851809)
Round 3: 2200 BC - 725 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5862135#post5862135)
Round 4: 725 BC - 425 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5903502#post5903502)
Old preamble below

I'd like to run a game along the lines of ALC and other's that I've seen here where I post up what's happening and all sorts of crazy advise is given after each round. I've been struggling a lot in recent games, so I figure this would be a great way for me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I'll be starting the game when I get home from work. Until then I'd like to get some general advise.

First off, I'd like to go for a Cultural Victory power by a SE and Sid's Sushi. Any suggestions for a leader?
I've been considering Qin Shi Huang, using Industrious to help get the early Pyramids and other wonders, and the Pavilion for the extra culture.
Another one I've been looking at is Justinia for the happy theatres, as well as the extra novelty of being a new civ.
Finally I've been thinking of one of the Greeks or Suleiman for a philosophical leader that I haven't played before (Americans and Natives don't count, as I don't like them).

Something else I've been considering is the difficulty. I can often win on Noble, but have been struggling on Prince. I've been planning on playing on Prince, but since I'll be getting all sorts of great advise from the lot of you, should I consider boosting it up further to Monarch?

Oh yeah, the map will likely be standard Big + Small, with the "choose religions" option on.

Finally, if anybody can come up with a catchier thread name, I'm open to suggestions.

How about "I'll win peacefully through Culture even If I have to kill everyone else!"

My first choice would be Qin, because he is industrious and the Pagoda. Beeline the normal early wonders. Build the parthanon, statue of Zues and any other GA point wonders in the GP farm city. Both are easy to get for an industrious leader on Monarch (hey I can do it) if you beeline aesthetics.

Pericles is another good choice, I do like creative leaders for a culture victory every little bit adds up.

I think Ghandi is the textbook culture AI because of Phil/Spir and early religions. Louis also.

To get Sid's suchi you may want to beeline economics and the free merchant before you hit liberalism, or use liberalism to get econimics first. It does depend on the resources, there are 2 others that creat culture.

I'm playing a game as Justinian right now and I noticed to my chagrin that his unique building, which replaces the theater, does not allow artist specialists... what the hey?! anyway something to consider if you are going for a culture victory. it's kind of strange because those specialists are really vital if you capture a city and need to quickly get some culture going. apparently you can't run artists until broadcast towers playing as Justinian.

Philosophical leaders are great for cultural victories, as you can likely generate more Great Artists and use them for Great Works in whichever of your three cities needs the boost most.

Try to build the Sistine Chapel. The +2 culture per specialist can really help.

Target Caste System as well so you can run artist specialists like crazy. Pick locations for your 3 cultural cities that have excellent food supplies, farm as many tiles as you can manage, and run artist specialists out your yin-yang.

Elizabeth might be a good leader for this. Besides being Philosophical, her Financial trait and UB will ensure you can keep up with the other, non-cultural (i.e. military) techs that you'll need to keep your sensitive artistic types safe from invasion. Not to mention the Redcoats. I love those guys.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've tried Ghandi and Elizibeth before, and would like to try something new.

By the way, my monitor is 1920x1024, so should I scale down the screencaps I take or leave them at full size?

edit: I must be smoking something... 1280x1024. Not sure where I got the 1960 from...

Try this: take Pericles, and set up a normal SE. Divert all funds to culture. Invest in a large army as a deterrance, and switch to FR asap to get religions. use Pericles cheap culture buildings, like the Odeon and Theatre, to assist. That would be really cool.
Edit: and scale down the screenies to 800x600.

Scale down any screen caps. I'd put 1024x768 as the max to post, and possibly 800x600 (for people running at 1024x768) Remember, there's other stuff on the screen that will make people have to scroll even if they are running your resolution, and you're running a pretty high res anyway.

Of course, since you're running widescreen, I'd put the max width at 1024, then scale the height accordingly.

Okay, I've decided to give China a shot. Possibly not the best choice, but I'd like to make good use of some wonders too.

Here's the settings.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/settings.jpg



And our start location.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/4000ad_start_location.jpg



Now this is the part where I struggle the most, and will be looking for the most advise. My early game is the suck.

At this point I'd probably settle one square to the north, in order to get the cow in my fat cross. I'd start on a second warrior and begin researching fishing, to grab those clam. Once fishing was done I would build a work boat while beelining Monothism. In the mean time I would be building a second workboat followed by a settler to build my second city.

Any thoughts?

edit: attached saved game, in case anybody's interested in shadowing me. Remember, no spoilers.

If I recall china starts with mining and agriculture, I say start with BW, that open grassland could be a fast copper source. I would send the warrio to the north hill and see if there are more hills there. If you move you lose 2 nice hills on the southern continent which is OK if you get the cows, but not if the three northen tiles are bum. I would concentrate on the later religions too, confucism definitely and taoism with a PHIL lightbulb. Maybe a theology bulb also. But try for a defensive tech first and BW is the best since you start with mining, then fishing.

That's my input.

I agree with moving 1N to settle. You put the Cows in your BFC and keep all the Clams and preserve a forest for chopping. Also, you can put your Worker onto all of your city's tiles without having to put him on a boat.

With Mining and Agriculture, you've got nothing for a Worker to do yet, so I'd research Fishing while building a Warrior and then a Work Boat to grab one of the Clams while researching BW and AH and then put a Worker out. Then go for the Oracle gambit to pick up Code of Laws for the religion and Caste System.

The only thing I would be concerned about is the empty grassland amongst all those forrests. Sort of screams out that "Hey there's a non-visable resource here". If it's copper, horses, or iron you'll kick yourself since you won't be able to work the tile in the city screen. You are industious, I would max the production for Bejing. The north of the cows looks like jungle, so the adjacent could be too. I know cows are hard to pass up.

Might be worth it then to assume the grassland is copper and just head straight up the grassland hills for extra defense of a hills city. My experience with BtS so far indicates that you may get anphib. assaulted by the AI and the hills means you might not lose yer capital, either way, be careful.

Obviously this would save the southern clam for your 2nd or 3rd city.

Fishing first, warrior first.

But that would lose alot of hills. Qin is industrious. And there is no guarentee the grassland is a resource.

I would move the warrior 1 NW before deciding where to settle. I would then settle either 1N or N-NW. I think two work boats is over doing it. One and then either a settler or worker. I disagree with beelining Monotheism. You don't need an early religion (we should be first to CoL to get the SE economy going anyway). It doesn't give anything that you really need. I would instead beeline either Alphabet or Bronze Working depending on who your neighbors are and how many of them you have.

Just settle in place.

That's a production giant. Chop the pyramids there. Later run mills or workshops.

warrior 1 NW. Settling in place means 3 inaccessible tiles. I'm inclined to go 1 N, if nothing changes, although the hill for defense is nice thinking.

I like worker first, switch to boats when you get fishing, finish worker (maybe grow first if bronze working isn't up yet, chop/whip settler. Fishing/bronze working. This is my fish opening.

warrior 1 NW. Settling in place means 3 inaccessible tiles. I'm inclined to go 1 N, if nothing changes, although the hill for defense is nice thinking.

I like worker first, switch to boats when you get fishing, finish worker (maybe grow first if bronze working isn't up yet, chop/whip settler. Fishing/bronze working. This is my fish opening.


The three tiles on the other continent are accessable, especially the 3 hammer hill. You just need a Galley. Your not going to be working every tile right away .

Yeah, but if you settle in place, you don't get the cow. And who knows when we're gonna get sailing (I'd rather not waste beakers to have to get a tech just to be able to move a worker). 1N or N-NW look a lot better to me.

Sorry about the lack of updates. Haven't been able to get around to Civ yet this weekend.


I decided to settle in place. Looks like heading north would have lost me some forest.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Started researching fishing and building a worker. When fishing was researched I switched over to a work boat. Got that finished and am back to a worker, which will be done the turn after I get BW.

Four goodie huts in the nearby area got me 41 gold, a scout, a map and mysticism.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


Christianity and Judaism have been founded.
I met the Persians. A scout of theirs came down from the north.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


Lost my scout to a wolf + panther attack. :'(

Met the Portuguese as well. They seem to have come from the west.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg


I also have Greeks up north.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg


Mongolians too.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg



Here's a look at the known world.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg



So here I sit in 3200. I've gotten BW, Fishing and Mysticism. A fish boat on Clams, and am one turn from a worker.

I'm still only size 1, so I haven't switched over to slavery yet. I'm planning on chopping a settler next, though I'm not quite sure where to put my second city.

It's a little tempting to go way off the the west, in order to claim the stone to help out with the pyramids. The floodplains + rice on the next continent looks nice, but that'll have to wait until I get sailing. I also like the Gold, Cow and Wheat to the south, but am not a big fan of all the plains and desert that goes along with it. Any suggestions for a second city location?

My warrior is currently headed toward the the interior, by the silk and corn, to try to reveal more map. Looks like there's lots of jungle around there. I'll be able to get some really good cities once I've got iron working to clear out all that jungle.

And of course, here's the save game file.

Pellanor, I am shadowing the game so I not exactly sure what etiquet is about advice. Obviously I do not want to commit any spoilers but I think I can offer advice for s econd city on the map you have attached.

I'd switch to animal husbandry hopefully horses will be on your blank tile, masonry isn't needed for a while and I don't really see a stone city any time soon, too far away and the surroundings look bad. Move your warrior back west to see if there's any copper near those silks/corn. I'd also chop out 2 work boats then a warrior or two before a settler.

This is often where I lose my warrior because of my greed and am forced to wait for another one to build, so be conservative with him. Scout a little, but make sure he's back in time to escort your settler. There's very little chance you'll get the stone, if the AI is spread normally.

It's only prince, so you have a chance at the gold. Slower 3rd settler, but you'll tech so fast. The "safe" settle is corn/cows, it's easier to defend and improve. No bronze yet, so it's either great wall (not industrious, no stone, so iffy), hope for horses, or get archery.

In the short term, you can either chop for your settler, or you could grow to 2 on a warrior (or fishing boat if you're feeling ballsy) while building a mine on the forest to the north (basically, switching production to a settler the turn you clear your forest, but you're building a mine because you want the mine anyway, and you want to delay the chop until you've grown to size 2). You'll need the warrior for your 2nd city anyway.

I forget the timing for normal speed, but it's 6 turns to grow to size 2 (22 food), 4 turns to build a mine, 2 turns to chop the forest, 1 to move there, so the mine should finish in 8. So revolt to slavery, so you grow in 7, switch to slavery, and if my timing is off, cancel your worker order the turn before you grow to 2, so after you grow, you can make sure the chop goes to the settler. Then keep chopping (at most 2 more forests) and whip first chance you get. This method saves a forest.

Then I'd get that 2nd worker building on a gold mine (or copper if you can find it) ASAP. You're creative, which is awesome, since you could delay settler 3 so you can grow city to size 2. Hell, that gold city is amazing. Oasis, gold, wheat, cows, 2 plain hills, and a grassland hill. You could use your capital to pump out settlers instead of your 2nd city.

I meant to post this earlier, and infact thought I had, but I must have closed the browser before hitting submit...

Pellanor, I am shadowing the game so I not exactly sure what etiquet is about advice. Obviously I do not want to commit any spoilers but I think I can offer advice for s econd city on the map you have attached.Just as long as you don't base your advise on anything that we don't know, like where Iron may pop, it would be greatly appreciated.


You're creative, which is awesome, since you could delay settler 3 so you can grow city to size 2.Industrious and Protective, not creative. Thanks for all the good advise though. I'll do the next round tomorrow night.

I would put the second city so you can collect both one elephant and the gold. The bananas would also fall in the cities BFC once you get Iw and Calender. Build a road from Bejing to the river and you should have a fairly safe, barb free trade route.

Okay, here's the next batch.

First off I switched over to Animal Husbandry, from masonry. Then I took vicawoo's advise for getting the settler started out. I started building the mine, which was set to take seven turns, while working on a warrior.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg


Then I switched over to Slavery to whip the settler. I ended up needing another chop before I could whip though.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg


While my slightly wounded warrior was fog busting the path that my settler was going to head out on, I got a little extra bonus.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg


Around this time I finished researching Animal husbandry and sure enough some horses popped in that empty grassland right by Beijing.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg


Next up I founded Shanghai. I went for the Gold, Elephant and Banana, following mad scientist's suggestion. This leaves plenty of room for a coastal city or two to the south, and another city between here and Beijing.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg


I then completed researching the wheel and pottery. I'm planning to start on writing next, so I can start spitting out some scientists.

I'll have to grab Masonry soon if I want to be able to get the Pyramids for early representation. Here's what my tech tree looks like at the moment.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg


For the next round I need to decide between writing or masonry. Also I need to figure out where my next city or two will go, and when I should found them. I still think that stone's a bit too far away to hook up, but it would be really nice to get those pyramids out sooner. I'm thinking that 1N of the southern cows would make a decent coastal city, and 2W of the cows near Beijing would make for another decent city, though I would want IW before I settled by that much jungle. I'd also like to get a city up by the Pig and floodplains soon. That place would make a great GP farm.

And of course, here's the save game file.

Switching to slavery was actually because the mine finishes 1-2 turns after you grow, so you're minimizing "wasting" turns.

It's awesome that you have horses. I don't know BTS timing, but if AI wonder slower, you could try for oracle->metal casting, pyramid gambit. Metal casting is just amazing with industrious, and it'll help the oracle come out faster. Of course, you might not get the pyramids.

Your 2nd city is vulnerable to a barb attack from the south.

Your worker needs to get over to the 2nd city soon, and you might need a 2nd worker (if you're going to do any further chopping).

I suggest meditation/priesthood, then finish writing. You still have time to nail the oracle. Bejing is great for production and has forrests to chop still. Early metal casting is just so valuable to an industrious leader.

A city on the hill NE of the southern wheat is going to another production city. That would be three decent production cities to build wonders (might as well spread them out for a cultural victory. Enough food with the wheat, cow and oasis, some grasslands, plenty of forrests and hill.

Another city on the island to claim the rice evntually, and one north to get as many dye in the BFC (that's alot of commmerce once plantations are built). With the rice, corn, wheat and a granery health is not an issue for awhile.

Maybe one or 2 along the eastern river, which should get you 6-7 cities, you really would need one more for 8 and getting 2 catherdrals for each religion.

At a minimum I say put the next city between Bejing and Shanhai for the minimum of assuring good trade.

Biggest problem I see is how you link up the trade routes..NO river trade, no coastal trade, so its roads only, this makes it necessary, IMHO, to set up a 3rd city to take in the corn and 2 silk in its fat cross, and link all 3 via road's.

This opens up trade routes, creates a buffer for non AI, invasion of spamming settlers, better barb defence, and grabs early resources, corn and late one's in the silk, gold will give 2 happy with forges, so the oracle/metal casting route seems good then collouses and pyramids. Your capital seems a great place for the great librairy/food specialists under a specialist economy

2nd city for military production, and 3rd commerace/cottages....but better sites may present themselves as time goes on..they allway's do, especially AI CAPITALS....

My opinions:

The 2nd city is in a terrible location and really a bad choice for your 2nd city. Firstly its to far away from your capital draining to much gold this early also it has no food source to really work that gold efficently early. You need to farm a floodplain before you can work it if you want to grow. So it will grow slowly. Also barbarian defence there will be a pain. When you finally get that gold mine up a barbarian archer will most likely just pillage it.

I whould have placed my 2nd city 2W of the cow for 2 food sources (cow and corn). 4 hills and later 2 silk. It will grow faster, easier to hook up for early trade and grow fast with the food. Much food means more whipping and better settler/worker production so your capital can build wonders. Also much easier to defend early.

With three health resources it can grow to size 5 without being unhealthy before that jungle get chopped away.

Your capital is working on a granary, no need for that yet. either build another work boat, a chariot to defend shanghai or better a 2nd worker.

Also i whould really concider sailing for a gally to gain that floodplain across the river with the rice. Unless you saw an AI coming from there.

My opinions:

The 2nd city is in a terrible location and really a bad choice for your 2nd city. Firstly its to far away from your capital draining to much gold this early also it has no food source to really work that gold efficently early. You need to farm a floodplain before you can work it if you want to grow. So it will grow slowly. Also barbarian defence there will be a pain. When you finally get that gold mine up a barbarian archer will most likely just pillage it.

I whould have placed my 2nd city 2W of the cow for 2 food sources (cow and corn). 4 hills and later 2 silk. It will grow faster, easier to hook up for early trade and grow fast with the food. Much food means more whipping and better settler/worker production so your capital can build wonders. Also much easier to defend early.

With three health resources it can grow to size 5 without being unhealthy before that jungle get chopped away.

Your capital is working on a granary, no need for that yet. either build another work boat, a chariot to defend shanghai or better a 2nd worker.

Also i whould really concider sailing for a gally to gain that floodplain across the river with the rice. Unless you saw an AI coming from there.

Just to follow up on this

1) Bananas are in a jungle in the north although that needs to wait until calander and IW.
2) Horses are present in the capital for chariot defense.
3) A road can be built to reach the river. The third city bewteen the two will connect them and a chariot can protect the road.
4) Once hooked up Ivory and gold provide a huge happiness bonus to Bejing's production abilities, allowing 2 more mined hills to be worked.
5) Farms can be built on grasslands, there are three of the at the moment in teh second city. The elephants are on a grassland, so with the jungle cleared from IW and a camp it's 2 food, 2 hammers, 2 commerce (I think).
6) An AI or barbarian city is less likely to pop up between the current Bejing and Shanghai compared with the other way arround.

Your second city would make a fine third city.

I agree on the granery in Bejing, build chariots if the horses are hooked up.

Sailing is important but I still say gunning for the oracle and metal casting is the priority.

vicawoo, I know the switch to slavery was timed to minimize loss. I guess I didn't make that clear in my post.

Ankh, thanks for the advise. I'll probably use your city location for my 3rd city. I've only seen a lion across the sea there, so I don't think I'll have to worry about losing that area any time soon. Perhaps it'll be a good location for a fourth or fifth city.

madscientist, I just noticed a flaw in the plan. We need sailing to use rivers as a trade route.


As for going for the Oracle Gambit. I've found that on prince the pyramids generally get built around 500 AD, so we should have a fair amount of time. The tricky bit will be ensuring that we can get the forge built in the second city within six turns of the completion of the oracle. I tried that on my last game, but didn't quite get the infrastructure set up in my second city to pull it off.

Forge costs 120 hammers. Each chop within the fat cross gives 20 hammers. With a city size of two I can whip 30 hammers. If I can get to a size of four then I can whip 60 hammers.

My second city has four forests that can be chopped. I would need to get a worker or two over there pretty quick to make some farms if I want to be able to get up to a size of four for whipping.

I'm pretty sure this can be done, but it'll take a fair bit of micro managing.



For production in my capital, I'm working on the granary to speed up growth after whipping. If you don't think it's needed, I'll save it for later.

A chariot for some anti-barbarian defence would be a good idea. I also want a second worker who can start work on my 2nd city, to get ready for building the forge. After that I think I'll grab a warrior and a second settler to grab the cows, corn and silk. With whipping I should be able to get all that out by the time I'm done researching Priesthood, so that I can start on the Oracle right after. I'll try to get a good whip in on the last settler in order to get some extra production to speed up the oracle, if the timing works out.

Anybody see any major flaws in the plan?

So you are trying the second city forge gambit to get the GE for the Pyramids? Seams safer to try it the old building way in Bejing while getting a third city up and some more protection.

I think the river trade route works within cultural borders without sailing, so you need to build the road from Bejing to the Shanghai river. Once the Shanghai happiness comes in it's easier to build the pyramids by working 2 extra mines (3 if you have the forge in Bejing).

That said, there is a certain amount of glory in getting that GE in time to finish the pyramids in one turn!!!!!! :D

Forges are half price for industrious, so you can do it with 10 production, 1 whip, and 1 chop.

If you use your second city, you're going to need food, real bad. Usually you get size 3 (1 for whipping, the other to run the specialist), though with only grasslands, 4 would be better. The capital would be nice, but I doubt the 2nd city can finish the oracle that fast.

Note about the ivory/gold: the capital doesn't have any more mines, at least on that continent. And unless they changed it BTS, you don't need sailing to trade on rivers.

And I'm forgetting that this is cultural, so you need religions, no?

And I'm forgetting that this is cultural, so you need religions, no?

Yeah, I think Pellanor needs to get in gear to found a religion soon. +5 culture per turn just for being a holy city is nice.

City#2 looked like a beautiful location before I realized that you need calendar for banana plantation. (however, banana farm is still 4 food, lol). However, with elephant+gold you'll be able to get high population cities early. It's good that the AI can't plop a settler there first, now.

If I were playing, I would definitely want my next city on the coastal plains-hill next to cow, near wheat. Good call. That city will have lots of food and some great mines too.

I've got a long round here.

Okay, I've switched over to a Chariot in Beijing, and Polytheism for research. My warrior got 21 gold from a hut as well.

I whipped the chariot right before I grew to size four. That got me 18 hammers overflow for my worker, speeding that up a bit.

It seems I'm fourth largest in the world. Wooh.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG


Then locusts hit my horse pasture by Beijing. I'll have to get my worker to fix that asap, though it added two turns on to my worker. I quickly brought my worker back to fix that one up.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG


Stonehenge was built in 1840 BC.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG


I research Priesthood in 1560, but my Settler is still two turns away from being whipped. I'm going to take a risk and get my third city out sooner. The oracle usually doesn't get built this early anyways. The borders of Shanghai also expanded, so I'll be mining that gold asap.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG


Guangzhou founded in 1400.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG


In 1040 BC Monotheism is researched, and Confucianism is founded in Shanghai.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG


My tech rate has really picked up now that I've got that gold mine. Writing's only going to take me four turns at 80% tech rate, rather than the 7 turns at 100% it was at the end of the last round.

In 950 BC I whip a warrior in Beijing to get an extra 15 hammers of overflow to finish off the oracle two turns earlier.

So in 900 BC, the oracle is built. I would be likely be too late to get the pyramids at this point in a harder game, but on prince I should have no problem to getting.
Darius also converted to Confucianism this turn. I think I should be able to get some good trades from him soon.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG


You may have noticed that I haven't picked a State Religion or switched to OR yet. Truth be told I kinda slipped up here. I was going to check to see if the 20 hammers to the oracle that I would have lost due to activity would have been made up for the +25% to production that I would have gotten, but I ended up forgetting as I was typing this all up.
In retrospect, since Confucianism hadn't yet spread to Beijing, I don't think the loss of turns would have been worth it. I'll be switching over right after I get my forge built.


It occurred to me at this point that I wasn't philosophical, and have probably just hosed myself by trying for a Great Engineer. However I've got 35 turns until I get an engineer, or upwards of 40 to build it the normal way, so I'm going to stick with the plan.

After getting Writing and Sailing, I'm moving on to Iron Working. Hoping to get another strategic resource.

I have to stop working the Gold Mine in order to get the Engineer going. This is slowing down my tech rate and putting me into the red at 80%. However I'm hoping to get a scientist running in Guan soon, to help make up for the loss in tech rate.

I've gotten open boarders with three of the four Civs that I've met at this point. I also miss clicked at this point, making a trade I didn't want, so a quick reload was in order.

I traded Metal Casting and Sailing to Pericles for Alphabet and Iron Working. Then I traded Mysticism to Kublai Khan for Hunting. I've got a few other techs that they don't have, so I'll try to trade for archery soon.

Darius currently has a tech lead, but he's the same religion as me, so I don't expect any troubles.

Here's what the world currently looks like.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG


Iron's popped up down south, so that's where city #4 will be, with #5 likely be across the water.


Here's a few pics from the Foreign Relations.

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0029.JPG

http://valsarn.com/stuff/qinshi_se_culture_prince/Civ4ScreenShot0030.JPG

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I'm thinking of beelining to Music at this point, trading for any techs along the way that I need. I think I need to found cities # 4 & 5 soon, in order to claim those nice resources.

Next round will be at some point this weekend.

oracle completed turn 79, priesthood turn 61. 2 turns for settler, so it took 16 turns to build? 3 from hill, 1 from city, 4 from horses, +50% from industrious, 150/12=12.5. I would have chopped a forest and whipped, since you're growing back super fast. Usually, you whip for an overflow into oracle (so hopefully near 30*1.5=45 hammers), chop (30 hammers), whip again (i don't recall the wonder penalty, so maybe 30 hammers). then you can get it in 4 turns (except for growth), ignoring happiness and regrowing problems.

If other races don't have stone and aren't industrious, it'll take them a long time to get pyramids. I'll assume they get a settler before pyramids, so that's 30 turns. 500 hammers, optimistically they'll have 10 production, 50 turns? It could be a little tight, but it's prince BTS.

Nice trade, alphabet and iron working are big on your list.

Don't know enough about cultural to comment much more. If I remember correctly, at some tech (printing press or liberalism or whatever), turn off research, build culture, and universal suffering to cash buy religious buildings, store up great artists, be nice to your neighbors. Should you start cottaging? Do you have your 3 main cities?

Going pretty well so far. I think you will get the GE for the pyramids in time. Music is OK but you really need to get COL, via trade or self tech as well as currency. Also, what tech opens the sixteenth chapel in BTS now?? If you miss the pyramids with the GE, use him for the chapel. Also you need the elephants hooked up soon. And of course the sooner you get drama the better. I agree on iron city and the other continent.

The oracle was slowed down a bit because I whipped the Settler, so only had two population that could work the first few turns, then once I had three they worked on the mined hills, horse and clam. When there was only a little bit left on the oracle I put one turn's work into a warrior, then whipped him to get and extra 22 hammers overflow. Had I chopped it would have shaved off a few more turns, but my workers were busy connecting resources.

I'm going to try for a late game cultural win powered by the sushi co, so I won't be stopping research for some time.

What's the reason for getting CoL early? Is it just for Bureaucracy?

Music is the tech that gives the Sistine Chapel. Along the way is Aesthetics and Literature, both of which have some really useful wonders (parthenon, statue of zeus, great library). It'll also let me get the cathedrals, which are great for boosting culture.


I'll be playing this round later today.

The oracle was slowed down a bit because I whipped the Settler, so only had two population that could work the first few turns, then once I had three they worked on the mined hills, horse and clam. When there was only a little bit left on the oracle I put one turn's work into a warrior, then whipped him to get and extra 22 hammers overflow. Had I chopped it would have shaved off a few more turns, but my workers were busy connecting resources.

I'm going to try for a late game cultural win powered by the sushi co, so I won't be stopping research for some time.

What's the reason for getting CoL early? Is it just for Bureaucracy?

Music is the tech that gives the Sistine Chapel. Along the way is Aesthetics and Literature, both of which have some really useful wonders (parthenon, statue of zeus, great library). It'll also let me get the cathedrals, which are great for boosting culture.


I'll be playing this round later today.

COL for courthouses to cut maintenance and allow you to boost the science slider and you may be able to found confucism. . Civil service allows Bureaucracy. Definitely shoot for music if it allows Sisten Chapel..

Ah, so CoL is just a generally useful tech. Here I was thinking there was something special about it that I wasn't aware of.

I'm still hoping to get it before the AI does, but right now my priority is to get my culture going a bit better.



...

So I totally lied about getting the round in yesterday. If I don't spend the whole night playing a hotseat game with the roommates then I'll get it in tonight.

So after taking a week off from this game, I'm finally back to post up the next round.

I switch my techs over for the music beeline.

Kublai Khan demands masonry off of me. He's behind a bit in tech, and I don't want him as an early enemy, so I give in.

Pericles converts to Confucianism. It seems I'm the only one to have founded a religion over here. That should make relations fairly easy.

He then asks to trade priesthood for Archery. Seems like a fair deal to me, so I accept.

As of 500 BC, all Chinese cities are Confucians.

Perciles then demands Monotheism off of me. He's last in score, so I decide to help him out.

In 450 BC somebody builds the Great Wall. Hopefully this means I should still have plenty of time for the pyramids.

In 425 BC I encounter the Ethiopian Empire, who is last in score and the founders of Christianity.

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Looks like I'm 3rd in the tech race. That's a good thing.
Temple of Artemis got built this turn as well.

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And then a turn later, the Temple of Solomon gets built. I'm still 18 turns away from the pyramids. This'll be close.

Nanjing is founded in 325 BC. I'm only a few turns away from having Iron :)

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I get Mathematics in 300 BC, but there's no good trades I can get for it. I do get Meditation for Polythism though.

225 BC. Taoism has been founded in a distant land. Looks like somebody went and got theology. Then Darius converts, and now we know. This is going to be a painful hit to relations.

It seems that Guan has been working on an Engineer without my permission. Bad Guan, you can't be competing with Shanghai for great people points.

And in 125 BC, The great lighthouse is built. I don't like the rate that these wonders are being completed at... hopefully it's because nobody is bothering to build the pyramids.

Darius demands I stop trading with the Mongols. I don't want to piss the Mongols off just yet, so I take a further relations hit with Darius.

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50 BC and I'm not happy. Not only do the mongols convert to Taoism, but Joao demands Mathematics off me. This is not good for relations.

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However Perciles is still my buddy. I'll have to try to keep those ties strong.

In 25 BC I discover Aesthetics and begin building the Statue of Zeus in Nanjing. That should help to discourage some wars, now that my relations are taking a dive.

50 AD, Darius gets a great engineer. If he builds the pyramids I'm going to be pissed. I'm 3 turns away at this point.

125 AD and I'm about ready to kill the governor. He decided to start working an engineer in Beijing at some point, causing a prophet to pop there the turn my engineer was due to spawn in Shanghai. I quickly revert to an autosave.

125 AD, for the second time now. Engineer pops where it's supposed to, and I rush the Pyramids.

150 AD, Pyramids FTW!!! Quickly switch to Representation.

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175 AD, Xian is founded.

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200 AD, and I need to start taking screen caps when founding techs.
Guan starts on the Great Library.

My finances are really starting to hurt with the founding of Xian. I'll be wanting a Great Prophet fairly soon.

250 AD, Statue of Zeus is complete.

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375 AD, research slider is dropping. Down to 20% in order to be in the green. 26 turns remaining for music...

425 AD, two turns later, and the construction of the Great Library drops the remaining time for Music down to 13 turns. Wooh. Adding an extra scientist to Guan and now I'm only 11 turns away. I'll also be getting a Great Person within 5 turns.

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I'll be ending it here for the day.

Once I get Music I'll be trading for CoL with Pericles. Then I'll research Calender, since I have a lot of good resources. After that I'm not quite sure where to go. Machinery will get me my UU. Civil Service will let me get Bureaucracy, Drama will give me my Pavilion. In fact Drama may be something I should get before Calendar.

I need to get the Sistine Chapel built fairly soon. Once I have that I should be good for wonders for a while. Not quite sure which city I'll be placing it in though. Bejing, Nanjing and Shanghai all have some forests that I can chop.

I'll also need to build up some military strength. Right now I'm last on the power chart by a fair bit.

I'll also need to figure out when / where to build my next few cities. I'll be wanting at least one more, so I have six cities for temples. I'll eventually want nine cities, to be able to build each of the cathedrals in my three culture cities. I can probably afford the maintenance on one more city, especially since the SE is just starting to take off, so I can afford to drop my tech rate further. I'll be waiting at least until COL for the courthouses before I get any more than that though.

Here's some misc end-of-round screens.
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By the way, how is my presentation doing? Do you folk want more screen shots? More details on micro management? Shorter rounds?

Anarchy from switching to organized religion and confucianism delayed the great engineer 2 turns.

everyone but kublai khan has mathematics and alphabet, so you can trade them to him eventually (maybe for philosophy).

might want to switch to caste system when you can, and a great prophet could be used to found islam (assuming you can trade for theology).

sistine chapel?

I'm going for the Sistine Chapel for the +2 culture from every specialist and +5 culture from all state religion buildings. That'll be a great help when going for the cultural victory.

I was thinking of using the next prophet I get to build the shrine, which should give me at least +10 gpt, if not closer to +20. I do have the most wide spread religion out there. However the second religion would be nice, to make it easier to get a lot of cathedrals..

Good call on the Kublai trade.

don't spread conf to your new cities if you don't need to. you have trade routes with 2 taoists and a christian, their religion might naturally spread to a city of yours but ONLY if it doesn't have one already. the OR bonus is nice, but the chance for another set of cathedrals is really nice. of course, there is the "go to war and take a city with religion X" in it method.