No more Eastern Europe arguments... I am sick of them and so I have taken it upon my self to put forward the idea of a new, Soviet Empire with all of the Eastern Bloc cities and great Russian cities. This way Stalin can lead the Soviet, and Eastern Europe is represented!

The Polish members are going to love your idea. It's a masterstroke and definitely an end to all the arguments ! :rolleyes:

I am going to have to agree with him. Poland, east germany, hungary, etc never played a significant role in history except for East germany being better at soccer than west germany.

the soviet union, on the other hand, had a huge role in history in many ways. The idea that every frigging country needs to be repped in civ is ridiculous and people need to get over it. If you don't live in a "great" country now and that country was never "great" then you should not be in the game.

Khmer, for example. What the f*ck is Khmer? Can I buy a vowel? They do not need to be in the game. I bet 75+% of the people that play this game never ever had any idea any civ by that name EVER existed?

Why?

Because they never ever had any significant impact on history. They never did anything worth remembering? The US? Well we won WWI and WWII (saved the frogs' asses)

Khmer? Forget it. They are a joke. Vietnam in the game? You people are psychos.

I am going to have to agree with him. Poland, east germany, hungary, etc never played a significant role in history except for East germany being better at soccer than west germany.

the soviet union, on the other hand, had a huge role in history in many ways. The idea that every frigging country needs to be repped in civ is ridiculous and people need to get over it. If you don't live in a "great" country now and that country was never "great" then you should not be in the game.

Khmer, for example. What the f*ck is Khmer? Can I buy a vowel? They do not need to be in the game. I bet 75+% of the people that play this game never ever had any idea any civ by that name EVER existed?

Why?

Because they never ever had any significant impact on history. They never did anything worth remembering? The US? Well we won WWI and WWII (saved the frogs' asses)

Khmer? Forget it. They are a joke. Vietnam in the game? You people are psychos.

Hey, a troll! You guys have these, too?

Khmer, for example. What the f*ck is Khmer? Can I buy a vowel? They do not need to be in the game. I bet 75+% of the people that play this game never ever had any idea any civ by that name EVER existed?

Why?

Because they never ever had any significant impact on history. They never did anything worth remembering? The US? Well we won WWI and WWII (saved the frogs' asses)

Khmer? Forget it. They are a joke. Vietnam in the game? You people are psychos.The Khmer are pretty much single-handedly responsible for the current cultural norms in all of Southeast Asia and Indonesia.

The Khmer are pretty much single-handedly responsible for the current cultural norms in all of Southeast Asia and Indonesia.

Really? I though it was India that did that, except for Vietnam. Nevertheless Khmer was a powerful state in SEA during the 12th Century, controlling important trade routes while involing in politics of both China and India.

@Westward - Sadly yes we have many of them, the mods told me there has been a recent spark of their breeding activities so expect more. Welcome to the Forums

@ The dead man who started this thread - Dont let thelastone36 see you

I am going to have to agree with him. Poland, east germany, hungary, etc never played a significant role in history except for East germany being better at soccer than west germany.

the soviet union, on the other hand, had a huge role in history in many ways. The idea that every frigging country needs to be repped in civ is ridiculous and people need to get over it. If you don't live in a "great" country now and that country was never "great" then you should not be in the game.

Khmer, for example. What the f*ck is Khmer? Can I buy a vowel? They do not need to be in the game. I bet 75+% of the people that play this game never ever had any idea any civ by that name EVER existed?

Why?

Because they never ever had any significant impact on history. They never did anything worth remembering? The US? Well we won WWI and WWII (saved the frogs' asses)

Khmer? Forget it. They are a joke. Vietnam in the game? You people are psychos.

You have a rather odd view of World history. Just because you've never of the Khmer doesn't mean they've achieved nothing. They were incredibly influential and powerful in SE Asia at their peak. This is a rather large area of the world you know.

You also give the impression that you think the US single handedly won both World Wars. I get a worrying impression from how American films and TV seem to show both World Wars that this is the general feeling in America, and that the British, Soviet and Commonwealth troops did nothing to contribute. Sure, on their own, the Germans would almost certainly have won, but unlike what many Americans seem to think, America didn't win it on their own, they tipped the balance in favour of the Allies and Soviet powers. I just hope it's not the case that all Americans think like this.

Finally, East Germany being better at West Germany at football? Are you having a laugh? West Germany won three World Cups, East Germany were hopeless.

Just because you've never of the Khmer doesn't mean they've achieved nothing.

Oh don't mind the troll, he's just trolling. I hear a dose of reality, logic, and reasoning as well as fire and acid gets rid of them quick geeky reference there :crazyeye:

and btw new discoveries in Ankor shows that it was the biggest city of mankind till the modern age.
It was the site of a giant city with an area of more than 1,000 square kilometers (386 square miles). As a comparison, New York City has an area of about 1,200 square kilometers (463 square miles); without its bodies of water, the area of the city is less than 800 square kilometers (309 square miles). Berlin has an area of about 900 square kilometers (348 square miles).

Ahh, Americans... he is part of the 95% I keep talking about!

No more Eastern Europe arguments... I am sick of them and so I have taken it upon my self to put forward the idea of a new, Soviet Empire with all of the Eastern Bloc cities and great Russian cities. This way Stalin can lead the Soviet, and Eastern Europe is represented!

Vivat Hitler, who represents Germany, Austria, France, western Russia, etc. And vivat ignorants who thinks that Poland has born after IIWW!

Damnit menzies why do you have to create these threads. :nono:

No more Eastern Europe arguments... I am sick of them and so I have taken it upon my self to put forward the idea of a new, Soviet Empire with all of the Eastern Bloc cities and great Russian cities. This way Stalin can lead the Soviet, and Eastern Europe is represented!

My god. DO YOU KNOW HOW OFFENSIVE THIS IS TO PEOPLE!!!!

The Polish members are going to love your idea. It's a masterstroke and definitely an end to all the arguments !

Polish members would honestly probably rather commit suicide then this.

I am going to have to agree with him. Poland, east germany, hungary, etc never played a significant role in history except for East germany being better at soccer than west germany.

Poland was the wealthiest country in europe for quite some time, The biggest nation in europe for a few hudnred years, Poland had probably the best Calvary in europe! :p AND Poland is the only country to ever take Moscow, Poland has been a state for over 1,200 years, Poland has survived the partisans, which many nations would've not. Poland even though in very tough situations, managed to actually colonize something!!!

That is only the beganing.


the soviet union, on the other hand, had a huge role in history in many ways. The idea that every frigging country needs to be repped in civ is ridiculous and people need to get over it. If you don't live in a "great" country now and that country was never "great" then you should not be in the game.

...


Khmer, for example. What the f*ck is Khmer? Can I buy a vowel? They do not need to be in the game. I bet 75+% of the people that play this game never ever had any idea any civ by that name EVER existed?

The main market is americans and most can't even point Louisiana on the map, i don't think that much would know that Combodians were the Khmer.


Because they never ever had any significant impact on history. They never did anything worth remembering? The US? Well we won WWI and WWII (saved the frogs' asses)

Saved the world for WW1 and WW2. You have crossed the line! I'm not even going to start

Khmer? Forget it. They are a joke. Vietnam in the game? You people are psychos.

Cybrxkhan is gonna have a fit....

@ The dead man who started this thread - Dont let thelastone36 see you

TO LATE.

except for East germany being better at soccer than west germany.

Do you know a thing about football? East Germany SUCKED. :lol:

Ahh, Americans... he is part of the 95% I keep talking about!

That's the only sentance you have evered said that i agreed with. :rolleyes:

I HAVE NOT EVEN STARTED YET. I'm really angry with this Menzies. I hope the moderator doesn't close this before my second Post.

For some reason, I am enjoying this....

Why do people still reply to these troll threads??
Both DrewTate and Menzies are just trolling you guys. Ignore them, hopefully a mod will step in and close this in due time.

(Although I also sometimes get irritated with all the pro-Poland threads, I personally would have no problem with Poland in CIV V, but only if they include the Winged Hussar. Otherwise no dice, sorry :P)

Why do people still reply to these troll threads??
Both DrewTate and Menzies are just trolling you guys. Ignore them, hopefully a mod will step in and close this in due time.

(Although I also sometimes get irritated with all the pro-Poland threads, I personally would have no problem with Poland in CIV V, but only if they include the Winged Hussar. Otherwise no dice, sorry :P)

:rotfl: you like our horses don't you?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Zbroje_husarskie.JPG

Personally, I love troll threads.

In before the lock.

:rotfl: you like our horses don't you?

Those units seem iconic enough to alone warrant an inclusion. If Poland didn't have a special unit or building I would be more reluctant to include them, but because of the splendor and length of their Golden Age and this cool and interesting unit I think they have enough characteristics that would set them apart from other possible European inclusions. I personally think we have enough European civs as it is, but I am willing to make an exception for Poland. :D

The idea of Representation in this is a joke, we cannot just represent all peoples, it would be riduculous, we must only get the Greatest of the Great. I am completly opposed to places like my Home; Australia being in and as for my heritage of Ireland, screw it, they should not be in. I am not completly opposed to Poland, it's just that people have gone on for so long about it. Just let it die until CIV V or CIV IV: [generic expansion titile] is announced. They are not going to go looking for Poland in the forums and go: "OH!!! WE NEED POLAND!!!". Someone will sit there and go, what else can we put in, then they will think: "TWANG!!!" and Poland will be included.

POLAND WILL BE IN THE NEXT EXPANSION, SO WILL DENMARK AND PROBABLY ONE OR TWO SLAVIC NATIONS AND SOMETHING FROM THE BALKANS!! Just sit back and shut up about it. Either that or I'll make a Comi-Nazi mod to "represent" them all.

The idea of Representation in this is a joke, we cannot just represent all peoples, it would be riduculous, we must only get the Greatest of the Great. I am completly opposed to places like my Home; Australia being in and as for my heritage of Ireland, screw it, they should not be in. I am not completly opposed to Poland, it's just that people have gone on for so long about it. Just let it die until CIV V or CIV IV: [generic expansion titile] is announced. They are not going to go looking for Poland in the forums and go: "OH!!! WE NEED POLAND!!!". Someone will sit there and go, what else can we put in, then they will think: "TWANG!!!" and Poland will be included.

POLAND WILL BE IN THE NEXT EXPANSION, SO WILL DENMARK AND PROBABLY ONE OR TWO SLAVIC NATIONS AND SOMETHING FROM THE BALKANS!! Just sit back and shut up about it. Either that or I'll make a Comi-Nazi mod to "represent" them all.

Hey, you are the one who started this thread... :confused:

Menzies please just stop, you've insulted my country enough for one day. Are you done?

Yeah, to shut it up!

I have... just wait until the next game/expanison???

great. i just pmed a mod to close this thread.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Zbroje_husarskie.JPG

Polish people are invisible. Scary...

About...umm...a few americans on this thread:
They're an embarrassment to my country, please don't listen to them...
...
About Menzies:
I find it quite comical these stupid things you say. Are you just spamming up the forum just to TRY to get a laugh? Or just to piss people off? Because when you say things about Americans, the generalizations you say about us, aren't you just as bad? If I wanted to I could say all Australians are stupid and ignorant, almost like yourself. But do you see me doing that? I like a lot of the other Aussies on the forum, so I don't. Are you in Texas or something and lying about your ethnicity? Maybe your even in Saudi Arabia. We can't trust you, who knows? What is your problem?

Well he does have a point somewhat, maybe not about Khmer,but I could do without all these new countries (yes COUNTRIES not civs) like France, Germany, Holland and POLAND for example (wtf why's everyone moaning about poland? why not austria, ivory coast or luxembourg while we're at it). This is Civilization, starting 6000 years ago, anything but really old civilizations kinda ruin the atmosphere I think.
Sure I can handpick Persia,China,Greece,Rome,Egypt,Babylon and maybe some from other continents and be happy, and that's why I haven't complained about it yet. :D

My point exactly. Ivory Coast ha that was a good one.

No I don't know too much about "football" (soccer) but IIRC Eastern Germany was pretty good.

And let's be honest, if the USA does not enter the World Wars, Germany would have won. England did work, that's true and in the second war, the Soviets did work. But by the time the USA even entered the war, France was already steamrolled! When I said "frogs" that meant the French, not all Europeans.

Why not Nigeria or Liberia then? What about Monaco? They are a country. Sure, they are smaller than Times Square in NYC, but they are a country. Does that mean they should be in?

This is Civilization, starting 6000 years ago, anything but really old civilizations kinda ruin the atmosphere I think.
Sure I can handpick Persia,China,Greece,Rome,Egypt,Babylon and maybe some from other continents and be happy, and that's why I haven't complained about it yet.

Best idea- play RFC. http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=204

Why do people still reply to these troll threads??
Both DrewTate and Menzies are just trolling you guys. Ignore them, hopefully a mod will step in and close this in due time.

(Although I also sometimes get irritated with all the pro-Poland threads, I personally would have no problem with Poland in CIV V, but only if they include the Winged Hussar. Otherwise no dice, sorry :P)

Because it's amusing? Imagine what you could do with France if you gave them Napoleon's Empire at its height. Or Victorian Britain its empire. Or gave Alexander ALL his empire.

Well he does have a point somewhat, maybe not about Khmer,but I could do without all these new countries (yes COUNTRIES not civs) like France, Germany, Holland and POLAND for example (wtf why's everyone moaning about poland? why not austria, ivory coast or luxembourg while we're at it).

Read our 1200+ years of history.

Austria should be in to. i don't get it...

And let's be honest, if the USA does not enter the World Wars, Germany would have won. England did work, that's true and in the second war, the Soviets did work. But by the time the USA even entered the war, France was already steamrolled! When I said "frogs" that meant the French, not all Europeans.

Nah, England would've eventually fought back, and the soviets just entred the war. A simple campaign to free France could've eventually worked, Poland would've had another uprising, etc. Germany would've invaded South America through French guinea (which fell in german hands after they captured france) and venezuela, brazil and some other south american country would've declared and... Ok that would just make the war worse....

oh England did fight back. But put your European pride aside and admit that the USA all but saved Europe...twice.

Add in Hitler's stupidity to ATTACK Russia :confused:

Hungary has stopped the Ottoman's attacks on Europe... King Matthias' Black Army was feared across Europe.... Austria-Hungary had the leading part in WWI.. so i don't understand your outrage...

Hungary has stopped the Ottoman's attacks on Europe...

Really and definitely Ottomans were stopped by Poland in 1683...

Ottomana were stopped by the Austrians.(I know it so)

the full truth about this is that Ottomans were stopped by hungarian-polish-Habsburg-french powers... all these nations had a big role in stopping them

Yes,those states were a big trouble for Ottomans at industrial era.I can't even imaginize,how big the empire was?

But i didnt know any battle,Ottomans was beaten by Hungary or Poland.

Ottomana were stopped by the Austrians.(I know it so)

The main part in Vienna victory had Polish Winged Hussars and Polish King John III Sobieski. Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor made an obeisance to Polish king, who was on the horse, but Leopold I was the person who ride into Vienna as a triumphal.

Sorry for my bad English ;)

oh England did fight back. But put your European pride aside and admit that the USA all but saved Europe...twice.

When it became convenient to help. Financially convenient. The U.S. is built on the bodies and blood of millions of Europeans.
So kindly take your God Bless America trolling and shove it.

Then it was a 3vs1 battle.Hmmm,okay now i know that Ottomans lost a combat versus Hungary and Poland. It is also corrected.

I am sorry too,for my English.But i hope that the users can understand me:)

(umm no?):lol:

...Poland is the only country to ever take Moscow...

I've got no dog in this fight, but before a mod smacks the lockdown on this thread, I just thought I'd point out that a certain diminutive Corsican might take exception to this statement... ;) :p

Napoleon's victories in Russia were due largely to the Russians retreating and using a scorched earth policy which eventually led to Napoleon's army starving to death.
So it doesn't really count.

The U.S. is built on the bodies and blood of millions of Europeans.

I understand that you might be a little annoyed with some asinine statements made by others in this thread, but with regards to your quote above:

WTF?!!?! :confused: :crazyeye:

Now if you were referring to the blood of American Indians or African slaves, then I could possibly get behind your argument. But this - it makes no sense.

Napoleon's victories in Russia were due largely to the Russians retreating and using a scorched earth policy which eventually led to Napoleon's army starving to death.
So it doesn't really count.

Spin it however you like - the fact is, he did take Moscow.

I guess I could say that nobody ever took the Washington D.C. either - except for the British in 1814. But that doesn't count, because the Americans abandoned their capital for strategic reasons.:rolleyes:

I understand that you might be a little annoyed with some asinine statements made by others in this thread, but with regards to your quote above:

WTF?!!?! :confused: :crazyeye:

Now if you were referring to the blood of American Indians or African slaves, then I could possibly get behind your argument. But this - it makes no sense.


I mean that the reason the U.S. exists as an economic superpower at all is because of how it took advantage of both world wars to it's financial benefit.
While Britain for instance was bankrupted after world war II, the U.S. had spent all that time making money through lend lease and loans that Britain has only just managed to pay off.
I won't call Roosevelt evil for that - he's one of the few American presidents I admire. But I sure as hell will point out how America's current success was built on European blood if some asshat's going to shovel the old "America won teh world warz lol!" crap.

Spin it however you like - the fact is, he did take Moscow.

I guess I could say that nobody ever took the Washington D.C. either - except for the British in 1814. But that doesn't count, because the Americans abandoned their capital for strategic reasons.:rolleyes:

The fact remains that the Russian retreat led directly to Napoleon's defeat in Russia, and no doubt affected his later losses too.

Mongols got Moscow too.. It is not a great deal i think.

(wtf why's everyone moaning about poland? why not austria, ivory coast or luxembourg while we're at it).You know Austria was pretty much a world power or superpower from about 1500 AD to World War I, right?
This is Civilization, starting 6000 years ago, anything but really old civilizations kinda ruin the atmosphere I think.If you're playing Civ for a historical experience you're playing the wrong game, haha. Go get Europa Universalis instead! :D

...Poland is the only country to ever take Moscow...

Not by militiary ways. Basically, in the Russian Time of Troubles a part of Russia's ruling classes invited the Poles there. There was no "Battle of Moscow" between Poles and Russians.

I mean that the reason the U.S. exists as an economic superpower at all is because of how it took advantage of both world wars to it's financial benefit.
While Britain for instance was bankrupted after world war II, the U.S. had spent all that time making money through lend lease and loans that Britain has only just managed to pay off.
I won't call Roosevelt evil for that - he's one of the few American presidents I admire. But I sure as hell will point out how America's current success was built on European blood if some asshat's going to shovel the old "America won teh world warz lol!" crap.

I'm glad you said this. I was just about too. We paid the last instalment on our war debt earlier this year. We were the only country in the war from start to finish ( along with the Dominions) and the only country in on moral grounds rather than waiting to be attacked. Let's not forget that Hitler declared war on the US and it is by no means certain they would have entered the European war otherwise. It is foolish to claim that Britain could have eventually defeated Germany though, a long term stalemate would have been the likely outcome if we could have matched Germany in air, naval and nuclear technology.
Britain was by far the biggest loser in World War Two . We were left devastated and almost bankrupt with an Empire we could no longer afford to keep. It would have been by far in our self interest to take the generous peace terms on offer after Dunkirk and learned to live with Hitler. I'm absolutely NOT saying this would have been the correct course, just the most sensible one.

You know Austria was pretty much a world power or superpower from about 1500 AD to World War I, right?

No, I don;t know. Austria just before IWW became (as a Austria-Hungary) weaker than Germany and wasn't superpower anymore.

It's certain that American intervention was required; but I'm just sick of ignorant people yelling about how America saved everybody because they're the knights in shining armour. Well they weren't, and Britain's paid her dues.

And let's be honest, if the USA does not enter the World Wars, Germany would have won. England did work, that's true and in the second war, the Soviets did work. But by the time the USA even entered the war, France was already steamrolled! When I said "frogs" that meant the French, not all Europeans.
We were important, and certainly the war would've lasted a long time and more lives would've been gone had we not entered. But there is no question:
You cannot say one country deserves to have more credit for winning WWII than another.
The Allies depended on eachother. If we didn't have England, then Australia, North Africa and certainly more land would've fell to the Axis. If we didn't have Russia, then we wouldn't have won at all. If the Allies didn't have us, then England wouldn't have had all the supplies we sent them. Japan would've been a threat still, and the War would've lasted MUCH longer. It was a three way effort to win WWII. Please don't be arrogant and say that we were most important. ;)
Also: What's your problem with the French? They were part of the Allies as well. :confused:

I mean that the reason the U.S. exists as an economic superpower at all is because of how it took advantage of both world wars to it's financial benefit.

Actually, I think it's far more accurate to say that there are 2 main reasons that the U.S. is an economic superpower at all: the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean.

More seriously, the U.S. was already well on the way to becoming an economic superpower in 1914. Transcontinental rail and telegraph lines had been laid, the steel and petroleum industries were booming, huge reserves of coal and iron were being exploited, and industrial inventions were coming fast and furious, in no small part attributable to the millions of immigrants received in the previous decades. Had there been no WW1 (unlikely), the U.S. still would have developed quite well; the War only accelerated existing long-term trends of economic growth. The same can be said of WW2, although obviously the effects on industrial growth were more pronounced in that case. Regardless, I would assert that American economic dominance was pretty much assured once the U.S. held off the British in 1814 and smashed Mexico in 1848. Even a massively destructive Civil War didn't deter the U.S. from its trajectory.

[slightly on-topic] In Civ terms, Europe had Monty and Alex and Nappy tearing themselves and their powerful, advanced nations to shreds, while on another continent, Mansa Musa is cottage spamming like you wouldn't believe. Space race FTW! ;) [/sot]

While Britain for instance was bankrupted after world war II, the U.S. had spent all that time making money through lend lease and loans that Britain has only just managed to pay off.

Um, this is not true. What the UK just finished paying off was the debt they owed on supplies they bought from the U.S. immediately after the Lend-Lease program was ended. The UK, like virtually every other country* that received part of the $50 billion of goodies, never actually paid back their war-time "debt" (which I have doubts that FDR ever thought would be repaid).

*IIRC Finland was the only country to pay back their Lend-Lease debt, as of the mid-70s. Kind of ironic considering they were fighting with Hitler for 3 years.

I won't call Roosevelt evil for that - he's one of the few American presidents I admire. But I sure as hell will point out how America's current success was built on European blood if some asshat's going to shovel the old "America won teh world warz lol!" crap.

Like I said, I understand your frustration. They (Americans) are not all like that. Trust me.

We were the only country in the war from start to finish ( along with the Dominions) and the only country in on moral grounds rather than waiting to be attacked.

*** cough ***

What about France?

*** cough ***

France, quite intelligently (given the horrendous loss they suffered in WWI), surrendered in 1941. The French, however...
Country/State vs. Nation, I guess.

The Soviets won WWII in Europe. Without the horrific meat-grinder that was the Eastern Front, then D-Day would not have been possible. See the failure that was Dieppe, '42. The Soviet resurgence was partly down to Western aid, but relatively little down to Western military action. It's credible that given different circumstances, the Soviet Union might have fought its way across Europe without there being a Western Front. It's not very credible that a combined British (and Canadian and Australian etc.) and USAmerican force might have been able to do the same in the absence of an Eastern Front. If only because the dictatorship of the SU allowed for a much greater loss of life...

France, quite intelligently (given the horrendous loss they suffered in WWI), surrendered in 1941. The French, however...

Actually, in both technical, legal terms and practical terms, France was an Allied belligerent from 1939 to 1945. Of course, it was the Free French, a government-in-exile. But still, France (like Poland) did not simply surrender in 1939 and 1940, respectively. Both countries continued the fight from (mostly) UK territory, and made valuable contributions on the battlefield. Many other nations did as well, but these 2 in particular made significant contributions during the period of their homeland's occupation.

I mostly agree with the rest of the your post, however. The USSR made the largest contribution - by far - to Nazi defeat.

I mean that the reason the U.S. exists as an economic superpower at all is because of how it took advantage of both world wars to it's financial benefit.
While Britain for instance was bankrupted after world war II, the U.S. had spent all that time making money through lend lease and loans that Britain has only just managed to pay off.
I won't call Roosevelt evil for that - he's one of the few American presidents I admire. But I sure as hell will point out how America's current success was built on European blood if some asshat's going to shovel the old "America won teh world warz lol!" crap.

What? If it weren't for the US WWII would've lasted LONGER and killed MORE Europeans.
?!WTF?! :confused: :crazyeye:
We were allied with Britain and Russia, we sent supplies to them to defeat the Germans, and pretty much defeated the Japanese all on our own. How do you make money from fighting a war? Your argument that "Modern American Sucess was built on the blood of Europeans" is bogus. I don't even understand your argument. This is what your saying:
America sent aid to Britain for a price, AFTER the war was over payment was due and America is evil?
?!WTF?!:confused: :crazyeye:

This argument is so old. You all could have moded these countries in the game with all the time you spent complaining about their absence. Or, you could have just downloaded one of the many Mods that is on this very cite. If your so pissed about your glorious country not being in the game then don't buy it. While I do whole-heartidly agree that Poland + Austira would have been a much better addition than the Native American Empire...seriously thats the dumbest civ I could possible imagine being in the game.

But seriously seeing these threads is getting sooooooo old

Thread closed.