Watching today's games, I got very annoyed by the refereeing and the inconsistency of the referees' decisions. One particular thing I was bothered by was not awarding Slovenia a penalty kick somewhere in the last 10 minutes of play (after their goal) and then awarding one to Spain, in different, but still nonetheless suspicious circumstances http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/conspire.gif.

Perhaps the rules have changed or I have an old copy of the rulebook (downloaded just a moment ago), but isn't a penalty kick awarded for every foul for which a direct free kick would be awarded, had it happened outside the penalty area? :confused:

This behavior, however, is not only World Cup-specific, as I noticed it in European football as well. Too bad I can't watch South American football more often, they end up with 8 or 9 players on each team before the game is over :lol: :goodjob:

the slovenia player dived over and he got the reward of a yellow card for his actions :lol:. A 10 out of 10 for technqiue. :goodjob:

The spainish penalty was debatable but more of a penalty than the Slovenia one.

Personally i would not have rewarded a penalty for either but ha i aint the ref

Civman, I think he was referring to the second possible penalty for Slovenia ("in the last ten minutes"). The first (with the yellow card) was definetely diving but the second one was more a foul than the Spanish penalty. Anyway, I wouldn't have rewarded any penalty in that match, too.

What annoys me more is the inconsistent way yellow cards are rewarded. Obviously speaking to the referee is worse than a true foul...

But that's nothing new. :D

Btw, Jancker's first goal should have counted. Where was a foul there? ;)

Originally posted by Hitro


Btw, Jancker's first goal should have counted. Where was a foul there? ;)

Ahhhhh, I guess the spanish refree remembered how many spanish players ran into Kancker over the last years and jsut dropped down as if they'd run into a tree... :lol: :lol:
So, he wanted some revenge... ;)


I just saw a slow motion analysis and it looked like he did hit the defenders knees slightly before the ball and that he couldn't have gotten the ball without that - so: no goal :( :cry:

9:0, Wow would that have been a wipe-out.... Wait a minute it was 8:0 still :D.....

One thing about today's referee is sure: he sucked (Brazil-Turkey). It was no penalty, no red card, not even a free kick. The guy just fel down a meter outside of the penalty area without being touched enough to not be able to score. And then that other guy's second yellow card? A bit harsh I think... And for the second referee: it wasn't offside. Maybe only the tip of his nose was offside.

NO NO NO NO NO!
The Turkish player was pulling his shirt. Did you not see the incident? It couldn't have been less inconspicuous. As he was the last man he deserved to go, but yes it was no penalty, but a free kick.

The second Turkish player deserved to be sent off because kicking the ball at a player ( at least when the ball is dead) IS a bookable offence (THATS THE RULES). He already had a card so he deserved what he got.

But Rivaldo (or was it Denilson?) deserved a booking as well. Notice the way the linesman didn't seem to notice him go down, even though he was standing a couple of feet from him.

It was a great game, but both teams were using dodgy tactics. Especially running up to the ref after a foul was commited on them to try and get the offender booked. The first Turkish player sent off (can't remember his name) was a major culprit of this tactic. I was sad that Brazil should take the lead ( especially as it was never a penalty but a free) as it would have been a great result for Turkey, but the player deserved what he got.

For more see the Spain 3 - Slovenia 1 thread.

A bit pulling shirts....he was still ahead and the guy had already let gone of it...ahwell. It gave me the full points in the poul though :D ;) :p

Originally posted by Baleog
The Turkish player was pulling his shirt. Did you not see the incident? It couldn't have been less inconspicuous. As he was the last man he deserved to go, but yes it was no penalty, but a free kick.

All true but bad enough. After all that decided the game and handed Brasil a victory they didn't deserve.

Besides that I think that there shouldn't be a red card for "last man" if it's also a penalty, that should be punishment enough and the chance is not taken away (which was the original reason for the last man rule outside the area).

Actually Brazil did deserve the victory. Turkey played well and they should qualify, but Brazil were the more adventurous attacking side, creating a lot more chances than the Turks. Even though they were only a fraction of some of the past Brazilian teams.

Should there not be a red card if the "last man" commits the foul outside the box hence giving away a free instead of a penalty? This takes away the advantage of a the penalty. Assume the Turkish player hadn't been sent off as you suggest and the referee called the free kick instead of the penalty? It's double standards if the defender will get a red card outside the box and a yellow card inside the box.

Originally posted by Hitro
...but the second one was more a foul than the Spanish penalty.
I still think that looked more like the Slovene fouling the Spaniard, thus no call. In any case, there has been plenty of people crying foul refereeing. It will be interesting to see if it levels out as the days go by.

Originally posted by Baleog
Actually Brazil did deserve the victory.

From a rational point of view they did. But you could expect more from a side like Brazil. They didn't play great, they didn't even play good, they just played a little better than Turkey. :D
Even though they were only a fraction of some of the past Brazilian teams.
Unfortunately.

You can say Turkey deserved a point as well because they were able to hold Brazil for so long, and would've held them if it wasn't for the referee.

Originally posted by Sodak
In any case, there has been plenty of people crying foul refereeing. It will be interesting to see if it levels out as the days go by.

It won't as long as there are disputed decisions or even obviously wrong decisions like the penalty for Brazil.
And that will most likely not change. ;)

Originally posted by willemvanoranje
You can say Turkey deserved a point as well because they were able to hold Brazil for so long, and would've held them if it wasn't for the referee.

I think so too.

I think they should have electronics to prove things like this...not offside though....that's something else...but penalties etc.

I'm surprised that they haven't brought in a fifth official who stays in a television studio in the stadium. Of course this wouldn't work for the lower leagues, but with the money involved in higher leagues and people always claiming they were hard done by movement on that front seems like the obvious direction.

On the other hand part of football is the human error. On the part of the players, the managers and the referees. That's life, people make mistakes.

Originally posted by willemvanoranje
I think they should have electronics to prove things like this...not offside though....that's something else...but penalties etc.

I would be in favour of that if it would be possible. But look at the Spain-Slovenia match for example. There are still different opinions on the penalty situations amoung people who have seen it on TV from different angles.
As long as a referee makes a decision based on what he believes to have seen that is bad enough. Sometimes even a camera can't make it clear.
I think it should stay as (bad) as it is.

true...it is part of the game of course

The first problem that comes to mind regarding a replay official is context. If you have a player who always dives and whines, the ref may let a foul go against him - the replay official would look only at tape from 38:17 to 38:19 to determine foul or no? I think diving would increase unless they could award late yellow cards to fakers.

They do award yellow cards to the fakers and rightly so. Look at the Spain - Slovenia game.

and look at damned Rivaldo

i think most referees are doing well. i was very impressed by the assistants during euro 2000 when they did the right decisions in every offside situation. i hope they will reach that level this year too.

The worst referee so far has been a European, Mr. Lopez-Nieto in the Cameroon - Germany match. He actually rewarded yellow cards for practically EVERY foul. The game wasn't even particularly unfair, but nevertheless it has seen the most cards of any game I've seen in recent times. He wasn't really one sided though, he gave way too many cards to both teams.

P.S.: Why is a referee from Spain assigned to a match in the Group that will be Spain's opponent in the second round?