http://www.civ4.houmie.com/pics/index.26.jpg
http://www.civ4.houmie.com/pics/index.27.jpg

* This mod requires Civilization IV: Warlords 2.08 or 2.13

Please visit the Website for more Information about Units, Civics and much more:
http://www.civ4.houmie.com

Please visit our Forum for game suggestions and bug reporting. However we intend this place not only as a tool for reporting bugs and sharing ideas, but as a place where TR players can socialize with each other and with us. We want you to feel yourselves at home there. But it would be nice to leave some comments here as well so this thread doesn't die. ;)

http://www.civ4.houmie.com/forum


Warlords: Total Realism 2.3a
Download the 2.3a version here: (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/civ4mods/TotalRealism_for_Warlords-Gold-2.3a-Setup.exe)

Warlords: Total Realism 2.3a - DLL Patch
Download the 2.3a - DLL Patch here: (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6881674&postcount=778)

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I would like also to thank those who helped us in this path making this mod happen. If I have forgotten to mention you in the credits below please forgive me (and send a PM)

Warlords: Total Realism Gold Team:

Houman “Houmie” – Team Leader
Peter “Mexico” – SDK Developer
Yann “Hian the Frog” – Designer, XML Developer
Andreas “Charly77” – 2D/3D Artist
Walter Hawkwood - Designer, Developer, Skinner
Anaztazioch - Beta Tester, Designer
Derwin "Ankenaton" - Quote voices
Tomasz "Vitez" - Forum designer

Thanks and credit to all these modders:
TheLopez, asioasioasio, Rabbit White, Snafusmith, MaxRiga, The Conquests, Never mind, C.Roland, Ploeperpengel, Notarzt, Chalid, sharick, Chamaedrys, esnaz, ArdRaeiss
ComG, baal_isidro, seZereth, Hunter, LittleRedPoint, heroes182, Expositus, Von Zeppelin, Robo Magic Man, nautil, tlucky4life, RogerBacon, Mumin, krowtrobot, Zuul, Aranor, Hell's Angel, villo, Tremo, Snaitf, 12monkeys, Frontbrecher, Bhruic, SupremeOverlord, Cafegio, AlazkanAssassin, Stone-D, Thalassicus, Optimizer, Master Lexx, Mylon, Patricius, naf4ever, abbamouse, Sevo, Willowmound, TheFourGuardian, Arne and all others which can be forgotten


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reserved for future.....

reserved for future....

You could use Spoilers to make the front post with changelog shorter.

This

Congratzs on the release! After two deadlines... a couple delays, one mad fan(Not me) a debat and a stone we shell never see again <,< >,> you guys got it done :) :goodjob:
Good job and thanks!:cool: Hope the impi's better;)

Now there is actually quite a high chance your arquebusiers/redcoats will meet Impis on World Map !

Great!! :goodjob:
I will download immediatly, I was waiting 2.2 with apprehension! :p

Only 2 litte questions:
Is better to download the lastest 2.13 warlords patch or it will perfectly work also with the 2.08?

And we have to uninstall the 2.1 of TR? Or simply "overwrite" ?


Thanks and Gratz for the incredible work! :eek:

Great!! :goodjob:
I will download immediatly, I was waiting 2.2 with apprehension! :p

Only 2 litte questions:
Is better to download the lastest 2.13 warlords patch or it will perfectly work also with the 2.08?

And we have to uninstall the 2.1 of TR? Or simply "overwrite" ?


Thanks and Gratz for the incredible work! :eek:

regarding patch: it doesn't matter (2.13 patch for warlords bring some problem with DirectX and all changes are incorporated into our dll)

you don't need uninstall 2.1 manually - installer take care of this

Masterful work guys. You've really outdone yourselves this time.

Now, about that BtS release...:rolleyes:

Masterful work guys. You've really outdone yourselves this time.

Now, about that BtS release...:rolleyes:

Not any time soon. Theres people (unlike myself :D ) who got lives to tend to. Plus, it'll be alot of work so no luck with BtS for a year or two :P

Is this mod compatible w/ the mac?

Not any time soon. Theres people (unlike myself :D ) who got lives to tend to. Plus, it'll be alot of work so no luck with BtS for a year or two :P

There's still hope; remember, the Warlords version was released just before Christmas, 2006. Almost exactly 5 months following Warlords being available in stores.

please advance to beyond the sword, you really need to convert really badly.

Just wondering where you got the main screen music? I recognize it from another game I used to play..

Is this mod compatible w/ the mac?

Unfortunately, no, as far as I can tell - any mod that uses SDK for dll changes (and our does, and does so extensively) is Mac-incompatible.

hehe it has not been released since 24 hours and you guys are asking for BtS release? haha sweet No worries, we move on BtS as soon as possible. ;)

@Schbn
Our mod cannot be cmpatible to the Mac version. Firaxis ever published a SDK for Mac. Curse them. ;)

@GeneralMatt
Recognize the music? yep it is a nice one. :p (tip: Remember that medieval game?)

Love the TR Gold (ver2.2) mod. :)

Love Blue Marble. :)

Hate the cloud density and thickness as preset in TR Gold. :mad:

How can I adjust these as I did with the scale tool in my main Blue Marble Install ? :confused:



Elrikk

deleted...duplicated post

Love the TR Gold (ver2.2) mod. :)

Love Blue Marble. :)

Hate the cloud density and thickness as preset in TR Gold. :mad:

How can I adjust these as I did with the scale tool in my main Blue Marble Install ? :confused:



Elrikk

The file you need to edit is Total Realism/Assets/XML/Misc/Civ4Detailmanager.xml

The key you need to change is <Fader>
<Name>DF_SKY</Name>
<Key>4000, 0.00</Key>
<Key>8000, 1.0</Key>
<Key>%CAMERA_MAX_DISTANCE, 1.00</Key>
</Fader>

To fully remove the clouds, set <Key>8000, 1.0</Key> to <Key>8000, 0.00</Key>

Any values in-between will, of course, result in intermediate values. If I understand correctly, first two keys control the altitude where the clouds begin appearing and the altitude where they're fully visible (as well as their density there).

All the scale tool does is alter these values - and it doesn't work with mods because it only alters XML in vanilla game folders. Be sure to back up your files before you try anything! :)

Thanks, great job!!
I've been waiting for this release with anticipation!
I'm downloading it right now, and will give some feedback in the near future!

Thanks for all the great work. Patch 2.1.1 was already briljant when i get home i'm gonna download this one.

Oh great, I only just got my days and nights straightened out... :p

I offered congratulations and thanks in the old thread. I am advancing through my first game. Kept playing last night till I wasn't able to recognize the screen from the keyboard so I called it a day. Quite captivating, and the new additions are great.

Now the only thing that still seems annoying is the Pandemia again. I am not against the feature, I only want to have clear idea about the way it works. I mean it should have been adjusted in this release. So what are the factors affecting it. I have cities with 5 extra healthiness that still are hit so often with Pandemia. Some clarifications please.

I offered congratulations and thanks in the old thread. I am advancing through my first game. Kept playing last night till I wasn't able to recognize the screen from the keyboard so I called it a day. Quite captivating, and the new additions are great.

Now the only thing that still seems annoying is the Pandemia again. I am not against the feature, I only want to have clear idea about the way it works. I mean it should have been adjusted in this release. So what are the factors affecting it. I have cities with 5 extra healthiness that still are hit so often with Pandemia. Some clarifications please.

In the city screen, there's a pandemic chance displayed (in the upper right corner, if I'm not mistaken). If you hover your mouse above it, there'll be a dropdown explaining all the factors that currently affect this city. The major ones are:

1) Terrain. Jungle and floodplains give a huge "bonus" to pandemic chance. A city standing in the midst of jungle will be racked by pandemics most of its time - so the business with jungle is: kill on sight in your city radius.
2) Techs. Certain techs increase/decrease pandemic chances. Generally you should keep your eyes open for "medical" techs (but those usually come only after Medieval) - they significantly lower pandemic chances.
3) Buildings. Wells/aqueducts/baths/clinics/hospitals can lower pandemic chances quite a bit. But be aware of certain buildings can increase chances as well - mostly "industrial" ones, like forges.
4) Connection to other pandemic-affected cities. Obviously, increases chance.
5) Certain leader traits (organized, agricultural) lower pandemic chance across the board.
6) City unhealth. Note that excess health doesn't lower pandemic chances.

1% pandemia per population
3% for every unhealthiness above healthiness point.
3% for every trade route (i think for its for every trade route)
2% spread rate. City spreads pandemy to all cities it has eigther trade route with, or just connected with.
Minimum population to be affected by pandemy = 4
Minimum chance = 0% (immune, im against it, allways some new thing can arise, especially during genetic expaeriments and evolution)
Max chance = 90%

Terrain feautures also increase pandemy. How much i dont know. Think its
0,5% for tundra
0,33% for flood plains
1% for jungle
0% or 0,5% for forest (it allready gives healthiness, but wild animals spread diseases)
Techs 3% for genetics (i think its 3%)

Buildings:
Sento and all baths.
well (lowers chance)
forges, smiths

Improvements:
0,5% for camp

Thats all i can think of.

I haven't been able to try this new version out yet. I'd like to know how much of a reduction in turn loading there is now, please. Thank you :)

It looks great so far, guys! The new tech tree looks very interesting and well-thought.

One problem I'm having, though, is that for all the techs you've created (at least all I've seen so far, I just started) in the Sid's Tips area it just shows things like "TXT_KEY_TECH_METAL_LORE_STRATEGY".

Is there anything I can do about that? All the "normal" (Firaxis-created) techs show the tips fine, it seems.

It looks great so far, guys! The new tech tree looks very interesting and well-thought.

One problem I'm having, though, is that for all the techs you've created (at least all I've seen so far, I just started) in the Sid's Tips area it just shows things like "TXT_KEY_TECH_METAL_LORE_STRATEGY".

Is there anything I can do about that? All the "normal" (Firaxis-created) techs show the tips fine, it seems.

we are aware of this problem, but we don't have enough time to write all this tips - it is just cosmetic bug and we don't want to delay our release

two possible solutions:
1. disable sid's tips (in game option menu)
2. or you can write this tips and help us with improving this mod ;)

It looks great so far, guys! The new tech tree looks very interesting and well-thought.

One problem I'm having, though, is that for all the techs you've created (at least all I've seen so far, I just started) in the Sid's Tips area it just shows things like "TXT_KEY_TECH_METAL_LORE_STRATEGY".

Is there anything I can do about that? All the "normal" (Firaxis-created) techs show the tips fine, it seems.

You are right about the tips. Most of them are still undone. The problem is simple: i have added most of the new tech tree but english is very far from beeing an easy language for me. At least, i can discuss and chat but writing good tips is beyond my knowledge. :cry:
So, it will be corrected asap. One of the Team member with a good english level will take this task for him... later. ;)

Nevertheless, with a bit logic, you can easily understand what is the purpose of each tech.

Hian the Frog.

@GeneralMatt
Recognize the music? yep it is a nice one. :p (tip: Remember that medieval game?)

Yep Stronghold, brings back fond memories.
It started this whole business, the first forums I ever joined was Stronghold Knights, and I am still there, even a moderator.
And since it was so great I went looking for a Civ forum and found this!

You are right about the tips. Most of them are still undone. The problem is simple: i have added most of the new tech tree but english is very far from beeing an easy language for me. At least, i can discuss and chat but writing good tips is beyond my knowledge. :cry:
So, it will be corrected asap. One of the Team member with a good english level will take this task for him... later. ;)

Nevertheless, with a bit logic, you can easily understand what is the purpose of each tech.

Hian the Frog.

alright. I figured that might be the case, but I thought I'd check - just to make sure I wasn't having any abnormal problems. No biggie, and no hurry. Like you said, I can easily understand what each tech does myself.

Perhaps I could do the tips (as Mexico suggested), if that would be helpful. English is my first language (and the only one I'm really proficient with :lol: ) and I am actually an aspiring (young) writer, so I'd say english is my strong point.

Of course, I wouldn't know the techs as intimately as you guys, but come to think of it, all the Sid Tips ever really say are the obvious things. :lol:

alright. I figured that might be the case, but I thought I'd check - just to make sure I wasn't having any abnormal problems. No biggie, and no hurry. Like you said, I can easily understand what each tech does myself.

Perhaps I could do the tips (as Mexico suggested), if that would be helpful. English is my first language (and the only one I'm really proficient with :lol: ) and I am actually an aspiring (young) writer, so I'd say english is my strong point.

Of course, I wouldn't know the techs as intimately as you guys, but come to think of it, all the Sid Tips ever really say are the obvious things. :lol:

Yep, we'd appreciate some obvious things about techs from you. :)
It's not much, but the game will look much prettier with those in it - and many old Sid's tips could also use an overhaul, because even when vanilla techs stayed on the tree (most of them did), many of them no longer do stuff they did in vanilla.

You can use our forum to post them if you make up your mind to help us.

@Hawkwood, and Anaztazioch

Thanks a lot for the explanations. I noticed the pop-up in the city screen (After posting). Anyway, you gave me more details so I don't regret asking.

@Hawkwood, and Anaztazioch

Thanks a lot for the explanations. I noticed the pop-up in the city screen (After posting). Anyway, you gave me more details so I don't regret asking.

No problem.
Never forget that improving your titles -with pasture, mines,...- also add some maluses.
As an example, the actual problem with the bird flu in the pasture in UK. :cry:

In fact, when i had added the various maluses, i tried to follow a logical way. Techs, improvements, buildings, wonder, project, leader traits, ....nothing was forget. Walter and Anaztazioch (above all) were of a great help with their tests and suggestions.
I hope that the values are accurate, as the global system (coded by Mexico).

As one of my philosophy teacher told me years ago: "There are 4 great "plagues" in Human history: Pandemia, Slavery, War and Religions".
They are now all in our mod. ;)

Hian the Frog.

Yep, we'd appreciate some obvious things about techs from you. :)
It's not much, but the game will look much prettier with those in it - and many old Sid's tips could also use an overhaul, because even when vanilla techs stayed on the tree (most of them did), many of them no longer do stuff they did in vanilla.

You can use our forum to post them if you make up your mind to help us.

I'd be glad to help with as much as I can.

Unfortunately I won't be able to get started on them for a couple of days, as I won't have access to a computer starting... any time now.

I'm at work...I can't wait to see if China and Germany still dominate as they did in the previous version...I also look forward to trying to rule Africa as the Egyptians again :)

I'm up for a break from BtS anyway :)

I'm at work...I can't wait to see if China and Germany still dominate as they did in the previous version...I also look forward to trying to rule Africa as the Egyptians again :)

I'm up for a break from BtS anyway :)

Germany, at least, should now be somewhat more in check, as both France and Russia should fare better.

The file you need to edit is Total Realism/Assets/XML/Misc/Civ4Detailmanager.xml

The key you need to change is <Fader>
<Name>DF_SKY</Name>
<Key>4000, 0.00</Key>
<Key>8000, 1.0</Key>
<Key>%CAMERA_MAX_DISTANCE, 1.00</Key>
</Fader>

To fully remove the clouds, set <Key>8000, 1.0</Key> to <Key>8000, 0.00</Key>

Any values in-between will, of course, result in intermediate values. If I understand correctly, first two keys control the altitude where the clouds begin appearing and the altitude where they're fully visible (as well as their density there).

All the scale tool does is alter these values - and it doesn't work with mods because it only alters XML in vanilla game folders. Be sure to back up your files before you try anything! :)


for Walter Hawkwood:

Firstly thanks for the detailed reply but I can't seem to get it to work.

I found the entries alright, and changed them as you suggested but still have clouds.

Thought that maybe my Blue Marble install was causing a conflict so I renamed the MyGames...CustomAssets folder so the game would create a new blamk one. Still have clouds.

Think I'll poke around in the same file as I see a few other references to things like DF_GLOBE_MORPH etc which might control the point at wich the globe textures seem to 'fuzz' up a bit as one gains altitude. This alway bugs me too.


Elrikk

Edit:

Figured it out. Had to set the CAMERA_MAX_DISTANCE value to the same as the 8000 value ( in my case 0.15) for thin wispy clouds.

Again thanks.

Germany, at least, should now be somewhat more in check, as both France and Russia should fare better.

That's true.
I have made 7 great tests on the world map, on Prince level. France and Germany went at war against each other in 5 games. Germany and Russia in 4 games....

In Europe, it can quickly become like in hell. Not enough space for everybody, so.....war ! Add some aggressive civs in this part of the world -like Rome or Greece - and you will no time for rest.... ;)

Egypt is a real challenge, at least in Prince. Barbarians are a real plague to your development.

Hian the Frog.

Egypt is a real challenge, at least in Prince. Barbarians are a real plague to your development.


Me as Egypt 'expert' going to try it ASAP... on Noble it wasn't that much of challenge. And I usually try to stay away from wars so let Europe fight and let me progress but first sustain Arabs and Carthage and then wipe out Mali with also good progress.

No problem.
Never forget that improving your titles -with pasture, mines,...- also add some maluses.
As an example, the actual problem with the bird flu in the pasture in UK. :cry:

In fact, when i had added the various maluses, i tried to follow a logical way. Techs, improvements, buildings, wonder, project, leader traits, ....nothing was forget. Walter and Anaztazioch (above all) were of a great help with their tests and suggestions.
I hope that the values are accurate, as the global system (coded by Mexico).

As one of my philosophy teacher told me years ago: "There are 4 great "plagues" in Human history: Pandemia, Slavery, War and Religions".
They are now all in our mod. ;)

Hian the Frog.

Thanks again for these info. I am so interested in knowing more about Pandemia as it plays a very important role in the game. I see it is one of the major features TR adds to civ4. I must congratulate you on crafting such a system that takes into account a great number of factors locally and globally as well.

Now as you have been so generous with information I have some more questions:
- What is the threshold at which a Pandemia in a city will actually kill people? - Does the system modifiers scale with difficulty levels or is it the same for all of them?
- I was going to ask if the each turn check for Pandemia is done in Python or in the DLL, but you mentioned Mexico so I guess it is in the DLL. Right?

yes its all SDK (dll) my friend. :)

Strange, I try to load up a new game but get a ctd after I load up the new game.

On prince all games seems easy, you feel your head-to-head with AI in advancement of even better untill... War or no more space to expand.

Strange, I try to load up a new game but get a ctd after I load up the new game.

Anything more accurate ? Loading a new game = starting a new game right ?

No feedbacks or complains ? WOW...... It's that the mod is running not so badly.... :p

If one of you succed in winning with the Vikings, Mali or Korea, i will be happy to "learn" how he did.... He was heavily slaughtered by the Carthagians as Mali a few minutes ago....:lol:

Hian the Frog.

My first new post on these forums in quite some time.

I would like to say... brilliant!!! Thankyou so much for making this mod available. Total Realism is the only reason I still play Civ anymore.

I am very happy that most of the bugs from the last version have been fixed. Well done.

Evey now and again I am still getting a big grey box appearing over the bottom left of the screen, obscuring all the important information there (such as Combat Calculations and tile mouse overs). I used to get this often in the last version and I cant figure out what I do to trigger it and what causes it to go away again. If you know what Im talking about it would be great if this could be fixed in a patch.

But apart from that I am very happy with this adition. BtS is on the shelf for me collecting dust until CivTR makes the transition. In the mean time, this will do me nicely.

Thank you for a Great Mod, Its the only way I play Civ!

One problem, After the install a new file called "nsaB8.tmp" appered on my desktop and can't be deleted or moved. Do you know anythig about this problem?

Thanks :)

I'm not sure if this is the right place for future suggestions, so just give a new location if its not right.

As I read at the beginning of this thread, TR has plans for a future BTS version. I was looking at the new expanded tech tree (very nice BTW) and recalled a significant event. So "inspired" by your extending techs, I was wondering about adding a medieval tech: "Magna Carta" -- it opposed Divine Right limiting a monarch's powers and established a form of representation (not quite as developed as Constitution).

Also, I noticed we have "pandemia" but what about plague? I mean, one of the problems of plague is that it was carried by well-meaning people from town to town across national boarders. Is there some way to simulate the effects of disease affecting one nation spreading into a neighbor's country?

And what about biological warfare? We have nukes, but can a missile-delivery system be added to launch a biological attack to starts a pandemic/plague in an enemy's city? Or adding the Geneva Resolution of 1973 that banned the use of all biological warfare research and weapons by any nation (perhaps as a UN resolution)?

Is there any way to add the simulated effects of nuclear radiation on a area (not just pollution to be cleaned up, by so that nothing can grow for 450 years and any resource remains contaminated and any unit moving through the area slowly dies). Hence Radioactive "cleaning" units to decontaminate units.

Or adding chemical warfare like the Mustard gas used in WWI or Yellow Rain used by USSR in Afganistan or Agent Orange used in Veitnam?

Anyway, I'm still messing around with what's been added to the Total Realism 2.2 mod. These were just some ideas. Maybe you guys already added them and I haven't noticed yet. Hopefully, at least, this post may spark more creative ideas.

And I know I said it before, but I'll say it again -- great job!

those are some good suggestions right there... Magna Carta and Mustard Gas....

well, i think it's fix and now I can play, however i'm still be waiting for Beyond the Sword version to be release, I wonder how long it will take you to make it, maybe 2 months or maybe 1 month... no matter how long it is, take your time and start making the most awesome BtS version of Total Realism.

Very well done guys!

Terrific mod and what an improvement from 2.1.1
Your team is definately taking this in the right direction so far.

I feel that balance is a bit off, however.

The expanded tech tree and myriad of new buildings and resources to explore is fun, but by the time I hit renaissance (sic?) I had cities with 36 happiness and around 20-ish health. Of course the Pandemia was still prevalent in my larger cities (which I have no problem with, honestly) but happiness just wasn't an issue at all which seems to take away an important aspect of civ growth and expansion.

I will run another game on a higher difficulty and larger map. My first run was Terra, Standard, Monarch, Aggressive AI, 11 civs (4 civs wiped out before 0 AD :)

Zululand is nice with -20% mant barracks, -50% courthouses, and -25% mayor houses!

Thank you for a Great Mod, Its the only way I play Civ!

One problem, After the install a new file called "nsaB8.tmp" appered on my desktop and can't be deleted or moved. Do you know anythig about this problem?

Thanks :)

DOn't worry, it'll go by itself after reboot. Just leftover from installer.

@ Rone

Also, I noticed we have "pandemia" but what about plague? I mean, one of the problems of plague is that it was carried by well-meaning people from town to town across national boarders. Is there some way to simulate the effects of disease affecting one nation spreading into a neighbor's country?

Pandemia has a spread chance with trade routes.

Is there any way to add the simulated effects of nuclear radiation on a area (not just pollution to be cleaned up, by so that nothing can grow for 450 years and any resource remains contaminated and any unit moving through the area slowly dies). Hence Radioactive "cleaning" units to decontaminate units.

I dont think we can make a tarrain feture like this. Making 3rd tier road is "impossible" and terrain features will make floodplains and oasis dissapear, as engine can have only 1 terrain feature, 1 improvement and 1 road/railroad on title.

Warfare is not the only aspect of TR.

The expanded tech tree and myriad of new buildings and resources to explore is fun, but by the time I hit renaissance (sic?) I had cities with 36 happiness and around 20-ish health. Of course the Pandemia was still prevalent in my larger cities (which I have no problem with, honestly) but happiness just wasn't an issue at all which seems to take away an important aspect of civ growth and expansion.

Cities in reinessance were really big ones. But yes, 30 happiness is a bit off. What civics you use ?

Representation, Vassalage, Caste System, Guilds of Craftsmen, and Pacifism.

I am getting +20 from resources, many resources are giving me +3 :) and several :health: resources are also giving +1 to +2 :)

I should point out that I am dominating the continent on terra though. I have just discovered the "new world" and own over half of the old world (including all of 2 large islands) so I will play another game with continents so that resources are spread around more.

A bigger imbalance I feel though is Zulu Ikhanda + Courthouses + Mayor's Office = -95% maintanence + Nelson Mandela's Organized trait further reduces Civic upkeep.

I noticed something last night, playing as China (first time in version 2.2). Did you tweak the standard governor? Unmodded and even in version 2.1.1.a, I could leave a city alone until size 4ish and it would grow just fine. However, last night, I noticed that my capital stagnated at size 1. I lost a couple turns at size one before I realized it was stagnated. I opened up the city in zoom mode, and saw that the standard governor was forgoing growth for production, even though all I was doing was building a warrior. I since switched my city governors to focus on food and coin...something I have never had to do before.

I believe that several AI civs are also being hampered by this "new" governor. Essentially, they stagnate at size 1 until they pop a worker or build a hunter's cabin.

Was this intended?

Additionally, you have definitely slowed things down. Game-wise that is. I didn't have time to advance far at all in the game last night, but it took me an hour to build my second city, explore Eastern China, Southern Manchuria, Mongolia, the steps to the west, northern Thailand/Cambodia region, and build two warriors, a worker, and a hunter's cabin. I am now working on a warehouse in Beijing. I feel like I am playing on Marathon setting, lol.

I do like what you have done with the early techs, buildings, and some new units. These will prevent much of the "rushing" tactics that one might consider employing. I find myself more tempted to just maximize the local terrain and be peaceful early on. I see little hope of rushing Korea or Mongolia any time soon.

Very good indeed. I do wish there was a civ to the South of me...the Khmer? But I am liking the new elements of this version (except possibly the speed, but I can get used to that.)

I also very much like the way your early religions are now more separated and no longer requiring, all of the food resource techs.

It's definitely more challenging as well.

I am on the Earth Map, on Prince level. It is sometime in the 3000s BC era, and I have contact with India, Persia, Korea (Choson), and Mongolia. I fluctuate allot between leading in score and lagging badly in score (that's due to the points for pop though, more so than tech atm.)

Anyway, I had no problem getting the mod working, and I use vista. I do think that moving units has gotten slower for some reason, and turn processing seems a hair slower also. I'll try tweaking more graphics settings.

Me as Egypt 'expert' going to try it ASAP... on Noble it wasn't that much of challenge. And I usually try to stay away from wars so let Europe fight and let me progress but first sustain Arabs and Carthage and then wipe out Mali with also good progress.

This is what I did also in the earlier version. I'm checking out China first, only because I didn't play in Asia much in the earlier version.

With all of the new techs, though, I think the path to accomplishing the above has been radically altered. The War Chariot now, may even have a longer life span than it did previously. I'd love to hear how that turns out for you.

Guys,

As most of you had already seen, the game is not absolutly balanced as we hope. You can easily have many bonuses for happiness and health in some part of the wolrd. (Asia particulary).

Our problem is simple: we didn't implement the new civic system. Lack of time. With this new system, it will be less easy to receive such as vast amount of bonuses.

Zulu (and general) maintenance cost: You are right. I have seen this problem in one of my test.

We have some solutions to correct this:

1 - Lower the couthouse/altar to -25% ( as the mayor's office give -25%)
2 - Remove the mayor's office bonus.
3 - Changing the Ikhanda bonus to no bonus to upkeep but no gold cost. A free barrack in fact.
4 - Adding (if possible and time) the new civic system.

That's my ideas. It will be discussed. Feel free to comment.

Hian the Frog.

The problem is only with the Zulu under Nelson Mandella. Courthouses and Mayor's Offices are necessary for other civs without the organized trait. Therefore, I think it's really just a problem with the Ikhanda bonus. I vote for making it a free barracks. It's the most straight forward solution I see.

A new civic system...your problem is stackable or cumulative bonuses which the human is going to become an expert at exploiting, unless you can program the AI to somehow adopt similar exploit tactics. I would suggest a dynamic cap system, for example: you could call the civic "Population Management or Entertainment Industry or Morale System" and under the most basic civic "The Mob" (For example), you could impose a max of +3 happiness bonus. And then for subsequent or more advanced civic choices, you could allow for larger happiness bonuses. Keep civic maintenance low, but put maintenance costs on the buildings or keep the buildings free and increase the civic maintenance. It's easier IMHO to balance if you go one way or the other vs. trying to go both ways and then infinitely tweaking the offsets to a happy medium.

The game's great. One question though: Each time I build the Pandemic Colony, and have a pandemic afterwards, the colony is destroyed and I need to build it again. Is this intentional or is it a bug.

Well I am glad the discussion is rolling on this.

Have a good break team, you deserve it!

I get a CTD whenever I try to build the Guild Hall. I tried this several times to make sure it actually happens only when I try to build it in any city.

The game's great. One question though: Each time I build the Pandemic Colony, and have a pandemic afterwards, the colony is destroyed and I need to build it again. Is this intentional or is it a bug.

it is intentional - pandemic colony is available until Medicine and is usable only under pandemia and is destroyed when pandemia ended

I get a CTD whenever I try to build the Guild Hall. I tried this several times to make sure it actually happens only when I try to build it in any city.

please post this in our new forum also with save - this can speed bug hunting

Intentional. Pandemic colony is reaction to pandemy (quarantine the sick). Once the sick are dead, the colony is burned down, to make sure it wont spread.

@Mexico

I did report the CTD I got in the new forum however the upload file size limit there wasn't enough to attach a save. (BTW 512 KB is a little too low limit)

I thought I better upload it here. On next turn you will be able to select a new building to build in a city try selecting Guild Hall - It should CTD - Try another building or unit and it should proceed normally. Try the same in any other city.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/115758/Tamer_AD-1504-TR-Egy.rar

No feedbacks or complains ? WOW...... It's that the mod is running not so badly.... :p

Hian the Frog.

I have found a minor bug - slaves can swim. :D

I attacked a goody hut from a galley (running Slavery). I won the attack.

Next turn I noticed I had a slave on the same tile as my galley - I assumed it was in the galley and sailed away. Leaving the slave on its own in the water (luckley it could swim).

I was able to move it back on land - so no harm done. :)

Been playing some and so far just a couple things.

1. I need more RAM. :(
2. Might it not be better to reverse even just the Names of Man-o-War and Ship of the Line? The original I think of pre-1750 the latter from 1750-the end of wood and sail, even if the differentiated from the line (As at Trafalgar). Though I kind of perceive them as the same..

Just the installer alone was superb! Nice desktop shortcuts too. Very professional looking. :goodjob:

About to start playing to find all the new goodies. :D

Bronze & Steel are alloys not resources. More accurate would be Tin which combined with copper allows for Bronze. Bronze is actually stronger and less brittle then steel, but because of the relative scarcity of tin vs the plentfulness of iron everyone made the switch.

Steel is actually Iron "smelted" with charcoal in its most early form. Later versions include manganese and other metals. Steel would be obtained from a building like to be most realistic. There are also a variety of techniques developed later that make steel even stronger and more flexible.

I only nitpick this because the mod is Total Realism.

Bronze & Steel are alloys not resources. More accurate would be Tin which combined with copper allows for Bronze. Bronze is actually stronger and less brittle then steel, but because of the relative scarcity of tin vs the plentfulness of iron everyone made the switch.

Steel is actually Iron "smelted" with charcoal in its most early form. Later versions include manganese and other metals. Steel would be obtained from a building like to be most realistic. There are also a variety of techniques developed later that make steel even stronger and more flexible.

I only nitpick this because the mod is Total Realism.

we know that this is alloys, but if we say "resource" it doesn't mean natural resource - it is something which can be used as source for other products
like copper->bronze, iron+coal->steel etc...

It's Brilliant!
Only problem is it crashes for me - I get an error: 'problem with warlords.exe, program must close'
it was turn 148 playing as america on the world map and reloading earlier saves still results in the crash at exactly the same point! anyone else having similar problems, any advice?

(didn't experience this problem with previous TR version using warlords 2.08, now i've installed 2.13 and TR 2.2 and have a sporadic problem)

It's Brilliant!
Only problem is it crashes for me - I get an error: 'problem with warlords.exe, program must close'
it was turn 148 playing as america on the world map and reloading earlier saves still results in the crash at exactly the same point! anyone else having similar problems, any advice?

(didn't experience this problem with previous TR version using warlords 2.08, now i've installed 2.13 and TR 2.2 and have a sporadic problem)

Please, post a save in our forum. A save with a reproducible crash bug might help us eliminate it.

Hello there volks,

As the new proud member of TR team, I greet all of you. Enjoy the mod!

Please, post a save in our forum. A save with a reproducible crash bug might help us eliminate it.

have done so, thanks.

1. Ok first great mod, big thanks for all the hard work put into making it.

2. Just a few annoying bugs

* Playing lan play with human vs ai team games and getting what seems to be random sync errors every so often , i have to save and rehost the game but it can be annoying and yes both players have the exact same files

* Playing lan play with human vs ai team games, moving an informant into a AI base causes an instant sync error

Thanks for a truly masterful and brilliant mod. This is the one and only way to play regular CIV for me.

Though, it is more or less impossible for me to get to the Middle Ages (playing on world map with no Celts) because of the MAF problem. It is so bad by the end of the classical age (or beginning of medieval age sometimes) I have to quit and begin a new game.

Are there anyone who know how to cut down the frequency of the appearance of this problem, I do know it’s not this mods fault, it’s the games fault.

I have patch 2.13 of Warlords installed.

My current rig is Intel Core 2 Dual at 3.4GHz, 3GB 800MHz DDR2 ram, 8600GTS 256MB ram, XP professional.
I play with all graphical options maxed out at a resolution of 1680*1050 (native to my screen).

Other than the MAF the game is flowing pretty fast and the graphics are running very smooth.

Are there anyone who know how to cut down the frequency of the appearance of this problem, I do know it’s not this mods fault, it’s the games fault.

I have patch 2.13 of Warlords installed.

My current rig is Intel Core 2 Dual at 3.4GHz, 3GB 800MHz DDR2 ram, 8600GTS 256MB ram, XP professional.
I play with all graphical options maxed out at a resolution of 1680*1050 (native to my screen).

I'm in mid Classical ages now and no MAFs at all. Even during testing I had no MAFs at all till late industrial eras.
Try lowering the resolution if possible and/or tuning down graphical settings, although I play at max settings as well.
Or just save every turn and load when necessary - wastes minimum time.

Hello after my vacations :) Below my few HOT comments:

1. I confirm the bug. Guild Hall caused CTD for me too.
2. Regarding MAF - I confirm that - it's quite too often now.
3. Regarding the speed of the game - it is significantly improved!
4. Regarding gameplay, I've noticed that you took into consideration some of my ideas! Thanks :)
5. Regarding Republic civic. I think "Republic" is represented already by "Representation". If you didn't like "Classical democracy", you could choose: "Direct democracy".

P.S.
Did you changed AI? It is somehow... less aggressive? And less willing to trade any resources.

Hello after my vacations :) Below my few HOT comments:

1. I confirm the bug. Guild Hall caused CTD for me too.
2. Regarding MAF - I confirm that - it's quite too often now.
3. Regarding the speed of the game - it is significantly improved!
4. Regarding gameplay, I've noticed that you took into consideration some of my ideas! Thanks :)
5. Regarding Republic civic. I think "Republic" is represented already by "Representation". If you didn't like "Classical democracy", you could choose: "Direct democracy".

1. Confirmed bug - wrong definition of button (forgotten comma at beginning...)
2. don't have MAF ...
3., 4. - thanks ;-)
5. hmm..we will think of it

Hi all. I use my first post to congratulate with you for this fantastic mod.
I played it since firt version and I have built a little althar near my pc with you avatars.
Only two things:

I play this mod online in MP, I know that it's not completely supported, but can you solve the problem of OOS when I or AI use an informant?

And...

One of TTR TEAM can explain me how a civ can lost a Holy city or began a new holy city? thanks :goodjob:

One of TTR TEAM can explain me how a civ can lost a Holy city or began a new holy city? thanks :goodjob:

If you have holy city of religion that is not your state religion then you should loose it after 40 turns.
If you discover new religion then you get holy city, otherwise you can only count on luck - once holy city disappears then it reappears after few turns in some city with this religion (depends much on city size i.e. number of followers of that religion) - it can even reappear in the same city where it disappeared.
Another way of obtaining holy city is conquering it.
And last way is ... using worldbuilder :>

Here is the file I mentioned in the main TR forum.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/12781/Ieyasu_Tokugawa_AD-0270.rar


On my system pressing return and you get the continous spinning wheel as the program has a 'Program Execution Problem'.

I re-ran the game from a previous save (2 turns earlier) and got the same result. I then tried doing different things. When I attacked and killed a barbarian unit I had previously left alone (bad odds) - the game did not hang up on this turn.

Hope that helps.

Here is the file I mentioned in the main TR forum.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/12781/Ieyasu_Tokugawa_AD-0270.rar


On my system pressing return and you get the continous spinning wheel as the program has a 'Program Execution Problem'.


Hope that helps.

I must confirm this too.
Bad luck!! - Two games, and two CTD issues :(
Maybe to play 3rd time?

Thanks for a truly masterful and brilliant mod. This is the one and only way to play regular CIV for me.

Though, it is more or less impossible for me to get to the Middle Ages (playing on world map with no Celts) because of the MAF problem. It is so bad by the end of the classical age (or beginning of medieval age sometimes) I have to quit and begin a new game.

Are there anyone who know how to cut down the frequency of the appearance of this problem, I do know it’s not this mods fault, it’s the games fault.

I have patch 2.13 of Warlords installed.

My current rig is Intel Core 2 Dual at 3.4GHz, 3GB 800MHz DDR2 ram, 8600GTS 256MB ram, XP professional.
I play with all graphical options maxed out at a resolution of 1680*1050 (native to my screen).

Other than the MAF the game is flowing pretty fast and the graphics are running very smooth.

I was finding that I was getting MAF's at end of turn during autosave, so I disabled autosave and lowered graphics and at the moment no MAF's have occured. As added insurance I save every other turn or so. But I have a much lower spec then you, so maybe you could leave the graphics alone.

To disable the autosave you need to change the civ 4 config file, there's a link to it in your civ4 folder.

; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave.
AutoSaveInterval = 4

Hope this might be of some help.

I am having BSODs at a save file size of 717 kb. Just before, I experienced CTDs due to video memory problems.

I never had those with TR 2.1. Also, 2.1 only gave me CTDs when I reached the usual 32bit memory allocation problems with save file sizes beyond 1.5 MB.

I am running TR 2.2 at the lowest graphics setting without the Blue Marbel textures on XP SP2, ATI X1600 with the latest graphics drivers, and 2 MB of RAM.

My only complaint is that the download is taking FOREVER. I'm not sure if its my connection or if you guys have a slow mirror over there, but for whatever reason its estimating about an hour download and I have a pretty good cable connection.

My only complaint is that the download is taking FOREVER. I'm not sure if its my connection or if you guys have a slow mirror over there, but for whatever reason its estimating about an hour download and I have a pretty good cable connection.

we are using SourceForge servers for develop and for distributing our mod. so if you have slow connection, try another server - there is lot of servers acros the world, maybe you have bad luck and you are connected to slow server located far away....

I am having BSODs at a save file size of 717 kb. Just before, I experienced CTDs due to video memory problems.

I never had those with TR 2.1. Also, 2.1 only gave me CTDs when I reached the usual 32bit memory allocation problems with save file sizes beyond 1.5 MB.

I am running TR 2.2 at the lowest graphics setting without the Blue Marbel textures on XP SP2, ATI X1600 with the latest graphics drivers, and 2 MB of RAM.


LOL 2MB of ram is not even enough to run win95. hahahah

I was finding that I was getting MAF's at end of turn during autosave, so I disabled autosave and lowered graphics and at the moment no MAF's have occured. As added insurance I save every other turn or so. But I have a much lower spec then you, so maybe you could leave the graphics alone.

To disable the autosave you need to change the civ 4 config file, there's a link to it in your civ4 folder.

; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves. 0 means no autosave.
AutoSaveInterval = 4

Hope this might be of some help.

Ahh...I was having this issue also. I will try this myself and report, thank you!

My only complaint is that the download is taking FOREVER. I'm not sure if its my connection or if you guys have a slow mirror over there, but for whatever reason its estimating about an hour download and I have a pretty good cable connection.

Softy.. ;) When you are used to it taking that long for a 10 mb download on dial-up, cable is heaven!

Hey guys, been playing the mod since the beginning, always has been the best.

However, this latest version seems to have serious MAF problems. I have a brand new rig, and the turn speeds are faster but it seems like 1 out of every 4 times I try to save the game I get a MAF error. It is so bad I don't think I can even play this anymore, which is sad. All previous versions weren't even close to as bad as this one is as far as MAF errors. Any chance in a fix? Maybe the BTS version won't have this version, guess I will have to come back then.

Again, good work on a superb mod.

LOL 2MB of ram is not even enough to run win95. hahahah

Dang! My old Mac Plus worked fine on 2 MB :)

Hey guys, been playing the mod since the beginning, always has been the best.

However, this latest version seems to have serious MAF problems. I have a brand new rig, and the turn speeds are faster but it seems like 1 out of every 4 times I try to save the game I get a MAF error. It is so bad I don't think I can even play this anymore, which is sad. All previous versions weren't even close to as bad as this one is as far as MAF errors. Any chance in a fix? Maybe the BTS version won't have this version, guess I will have to come back then.

Again, good work on a superb mod.

I downloaded the latest version the first day,wasn't able to play very much until today.I do agree the turn speeds are faster,and I really enjoy that part of the update.I also love the new tech tree,so much new here all I can say is :goodjob: But I also agree with Therapist,I am having serious MAF problems late in the game.It all started after the year 2000 and gets worse.By the year 2017 it happens almost ever other turn.It's to a point now that it takes longer to load it up than what I can play before it crashes.I also have fast computer with lots of memory.I hope the team can come up with a solution for this problem because this has become game-breaking for me.Here is a save of my game and see how long you can go before the MAF crash ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/57181/AutoSave_AD-2017.CivWarlordsSave

Set autosave to 0 and MAF is gone! However, I still get a game lock when scrolling around the map for a while. Warning: Do not do this! lol.

I have 2GB Ram, etc...however, I am running in Vista, but I am not going to blame this on Vista, as I had the same problem in 2.1 with windows xp on a different machine. I am also getting the strange blacked out colors when I scroll around the map allot. Warning 2: Just don't scroll around, hop from city to city or unit to unit.

Also would like to report that I am having a blast playing as Qin Shi Huangdi on Prince level on the Earth Map. I destroyed Korea, crippled Mongolia, and am now dismantling India. I also have naval superiority with Galleys, lol, in the China Sea and Japanese Sea areas. My tech rate hovers around 5% but I am still chewing through classical era techs at a respectable 8-11 turns. Conquest is feeding my economy and I have several cities producing nothing but research. I have built The Pyramids, The Great Wall, The Collossus, and the Mosolleum of Mosollus. I am about to finish the Hanging Guardens, and I founded Budhaism.

I'm sure the Europeans have a technical edge on me, but as far as Asia goes, I am the Dragon of the East.

It's still early going in my game (75BC), but I have yet to see any rediculous happiness or imballancing exploits. 10 well-promoted Swordsmen that I refresh quickly, combined with an axeman, two spearmen, and two archers are able to conquer cities with 50% defense bonus and several defenders.

I was really concerned about my economy, but I appear to have spammed enough cottages and libraries to sustain myself for the moment. After taking Bombay, I had to raize a couple Indian cities rather than capture them :(

Oh...there is allot of war in this mod...allot of war, but it is expertly done, and very challenging. I hope Firaxis gives you all a job or a stipend of some kind for your excellent work. Now...if you could get corporations and the enhanced espionage from BTS in here...ah...that would be how civ should be!

Great job! P.S. I notice that America and France and Russia are actually doing quite well this time around :) :)

1700ad 1st Maf on no celts worldmap. autosave = 4.

Set autosave to 0 and MAF is gone!

What if you do want to save and you get MAF while being 100... 200 turns ater your last save? Do you take such risk so easily? I rather save each turn. MAF occurs once per 10-20 turns so I loose only 1-2 mins of reloading and replaying only one lost turn.

1700ad 1st Maf on no celts worldmap. autosave = 4.

First MAF around 500BC in my game, same settings, and MAFs intensity is increasing (around 100BC now). On later versions first MAFs started to occur only once I discovered Paper and traded some maps (1000 AD or even later) so I must agree that in this version they started much earlier.

I met a bug. A german settler ended his movement points moving in a forest, but he was able to found a city in the same turn. I've tried to do the same, but, even when the option is available, I cant. I dont know if this bug is only in TR or in Vanilla too, never met before, but with TR already twice.
Just my opinion about this version: I'm not happy that you moved Bronze Working back on the tech tree, as it's impossible fight wars before get this tech and without wars the game is simply boring. I like Metal Lore idea and Toolmaking, but I cant understand why BW must need Pottery. My suggestion is to take off Pottery as necessary tech for BW.
Last thing: why anybody tried to change a bit scouts, a totally useless unit? 1 strenght point is too little, as the limit to be only defensive. I cant imagine who can spend useless turns building scouts apart AI :-)

Fantastic work guys . The amount of depth is just stunning. I'm up to about 2007 in my current game and have yet to encounter MAF but I'm getting lots of the scrolling freeze which is a pity since the map is so attractive to look around. One thing I have noted is that because of all the new layers of tech perhaps the speed of the game needs re balancing since I seem to be about 3-400 years behind actual events and I'm the tech leader at Prince level with no tech trading.
BTW Can someone decide if the English are celtic or nordic in the game. We seem to a mixture of units.

I cant understand why BW must need Pottery.

It's because of clay forms that are needed to shape melted bronze.

Fantastic work guys . The amount of depth is just stunning. I'm up to about 2007 in my current game and have yet to encounter MAF but I'm getting lots of the scrolling freeze which is a pity since the map is so attractive to look around. One thing I have noted is that because of all the new layers of tech perhaps the speed of the game needs re balancing since I seem to be about 3-400 years behind actual events and I'm the tech leader at Prince level with no tech trading.
BTW Can someone decide if the English are celtic or nordic in the game. We seem to a mixture of units.

Hi Man,

Very interesting comment.

English are a mix of Celts, Nordic and "barbarian" reskinned units. We tried to follow a bit the history of England (and British Island). That's why there is a mix of units. After the Dark Ages, you can note that England (like all Eurpean powers) have its own pack of units. Some may be shared, like some tanks, ships, but most are really and typically English. :)

I thank you about your comment about the tech tree and research. To not lie, we haven't spent enough time to test the game as far as you. It was just made "theorically". In my actual tests, i have the same problems. As i reach Renaissance, i slowly lose time in reseach. I mean that it's not as close to realism as intended. It's nearly impossible on Prince level to be close to the "real" tech tree. It will need some changes. There are many solutions. We will look at that.

Thx for this comment. :goodjob:

Hian the Frog.

A mixture of Celts, Nordics and barbarians. Now that does sound typically English :)

Coming back to the tech thing. I'm noticing that because of the quite lengthy technology avenues you have to take, Great Wonders are being built later in the game and are being spread out more amongst the civs. You certainly have to give more thought to what you want to research and the smaller steps in military tech means that in order to dominate you must employ huge armies at huge financial cost. Which is how it should be.
As far as the scrolling bug goes I know that if I go to single unit graphics and lower detail my problems go away. But then I won't fully enjoy the new units. Decisions, decisions :crazyeye:

Hi all, I am playing at Prince level in a Pangea, with ten AI players and I have met two problems:

the first is that sometimes the screen freezes when I scroll over the map to give orders to my units, and I have to restart my pc.

the second problem is that I see enemie assassins! even if I haven't a my assassin near in the map, I can see other assassins going over my country...how it is possible?

It's fantastic the new tech tree, even if it's a little too slow, I haven't ever used swordmen for a so long time, It's very hard to finish tech tree until 2050 d.c.!

Last thing...TTR mod generates very beautiful Pangea world, very different one to other and very nice to play...I think you have changed something in world generator....simply fantastic! :goodjob:

the first is that sometimes the screen freezes when I scroll over the map to give orders to my units, and I have to restart my pc.


yes it happens.Try to not scroll having mouse button clicked. It will help!

I mean that it's not as close to realism as intended. It's nearly impossible on Prince level to be close to the "real" tech tree. It will need some changes. There are many solutions. We will look at that.

You could start by asking players to post the year/turn number they reach each era and the game difficulty. This will give you a broader base and different levels of experience to help you fine tune the tech advancement.

Just a thought.

You could start by asking players to post the year/turn number they reach each era and the game difficulty. This will give you a broader base and different levels of experience to help you fine tune the tech advancement.

Just a thought.

Hi Harrier,

It's a good thought. ;)

While testing, we used the system Vitez, Anaztazioch, Walter and me. But we can't go as far as we want. We tested from the beginning to late middle age - early renaissance. Lack of time. :cry:

The second problem is that we didn't included our new civic system. lack of time again. This one would solve three problems: research, army upkeep and happiness/health bonuses and maluses (at that time too much bonus).

Last but not least, a few buildings weren't included too. Again and again, lack of time. As an example, the Philosopher school (available with philosophy) as research/science building.

As you can see, there are still a lot of thing to tune and/or change.

Nevertheless, don't hesitate to give us the needed help to make the mod better. In that case, please use our private forum. Create a topic where you will give us the year/turn you change eras and the level and type of maps you're playing.

Hian the Frog.

So, TR team that tested the game:

You didn't think the MAF problems made this mod unplayable? One suggestion is to turn off autosave, but what if you want to save your game to come back another day? Do you know how annoying and a waste of time to play a game for a couple hours, and then when you're ready to quit and you try to save, then the MAF appears and you lost everything? It is really bad and I am unable to enjoy this mod. Do you guys have any info on BTS and your future port to this as far as MAF problems?

I have recived MAF in 600ad when using WorldBuilder.
I have not recived MAF till 1700ad without Worldbuilder.

Do you know how annoying and a waste of time to play a game for a couple hours, and then when you're ready to quit and you try to save, then the MAF appears and you lost everything?

That's why I save each turn and loose 5 mins max.

I have recived MAF in 600ad when using WorldBuilder.
I have not recived MAF till 1700ad without Worldbuilder.

That's not a proper answer IMHO. The thing that you did not receive MAF does not mean anything when there are lots of other players (including me) reporting increased MAF activity. So either MAFs depend on some mystery we don't know yet or it just depends on luck/specific gameplay/types of actions etc. So I'd say "Yes, they do exist, the only thing can be done now is perform workaround solutions and have patience" instead of saying "I don't have MAFs".

So, losing 5 turns is acceptable for you? You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to load this mod back up, wait while you load the last save game(which can take awhile in itself once you get to later stages in the game), and then repeat the same steps you just completed in the last 4 turns before the crash. I am not that patient with computer games.

I played Washington at Prince level for more or less 600 turns in a huge pangea, with 10 Ai opponements...and I haven't MAF problems, but only some graphic bug, as workers and ship turned black.
I love this mod, but for my little impression, I think it's simpler than previous version.
With old tech tree, AI discovered Bronze earlier than human player, and advanced more before Human could close that gap.
With new tech tree, that is very slow, you can use for a longer time old units and you can restrict the gap.
I love some new techs, but do you think that the new tree is a little too big and that is no longer realistic with the time of the game?
I think to finish the game without any possible to discover all the techs or a good number of modern techs.
Can TTR chages in new version the speed or reduces the number of turn for any tech?
A last thing, as it's possible that assassin can only sabotage research even if in civilopedia there is written a lot of things that it can do? I don't understand if I need some tech to use other abilities or if it's a bug.
However new units are very beautiful and the diplomacy is very improved and realistic.
I know that you does this work for pleasure and I and we are aking you other work and other improvements, but this mod is so nice that for me is a stand alone game and not more "only a mod".
Thanks :goodjob:

So, losing 5 turns is acceptable for you? You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to load this mod back up, wait while you load the last save game(which can take awhile in itself once you get to later stages in the game), and then repeat the same steps you just completed in the last 4 turns before the crash. I am not that patient with computer games.

Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies :) . But watch out with your impatience ;) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w

I played Washington at Prince level for more or less 600 turns in a huge pangea, with 10 Ai opponements...and I haven't MAF problems, but only some graphic bug, as workers and ship turned black.

It's not mod related but more Civ/Warlords related. Just do alt+tab to desktop and then go back to the game. Works for me.

Can TTR chages in new version the speed or reduces the number of turn for any tech?

We're working on it.

I'm getting a "FATAL_ERROR" message saying:
"Memory allocation failure - exiting program.
Reason:bad allocation"
When I restart CIV and load the latest autosave I can continue, but after a while I get the same message...
Don't know if it's the mod or the program...

BTW! I really like this MOD! it's by far the greatest mod I've played and SO much better that the original CIV and expansions... I'm not even interested in BtS until you guys release the first mod for this...
Sorry about repeating everybody else :blush:
:D

Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies :) . But watch out with your impatience ;) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w



It's not mod related but more Civ/Warlords related. Just do alt+tab to desktop and then go back to the game. Works for me.



We're working on it.

Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies . But watch out with your impatience : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w



I never said it takes 5 minutes to load up your mod, as I have a brand new system. However, I'm sure it takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes for people with older systems to start your mod, then load their game back up.

Thanks for the suggestion about playing RTS games, but I'm sure I've been playing turn-based games longer than you have, including the original Civ. I don't think I will switch to RTS games as you suggested, but maybe to a semi stable mod that doesn't quit to desktop or freeze the PC all together. I do not mean this as an attack on you, but your reply seemed to be a little hostile telling me to switch to a different genre of games. Your mod is good, and has good ideas, but it has problems that make it unplayable for me, and I'm sure other people as well. This is my opinion, sorry if it offends you, but that is what forums are for, opinions. I hope you can resolve these problems in your BTS version, and I await that version. You have fallen behind other mods that are already popping up for BTS, but maybe yours will be better quality this time?

I never said it takes 5 minutes to load up your mod, as I have a brand new system. However, I'm sure it takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes for people with older systems to start your mod, then load their game back up.

Sorry, I was referring only to myself and my PC. I can't talk for everyone else. It's just my example that saving every turn gives me few mins delay only. Still I don't know where have you taken these 5 turns?

Thanks for the suggestion about playing RTS games, but I'm sure I've been playing turn-based games longer than you have, including the original Civ.

Can you share with me what makes you so sure about it?

I do not mean this as an attack on you, but your reply seemed to be a little hostile telling me to switch to a different genre of games.

It seems that you just have different sense of humour than me. Next time - read the smileys and then try to make more proper judgement whether givent opinion is hostile or not.

Your mod is good, and has good ideas, but it has problems that make it unplayable for me, and I'm sure other people as well. This is my opinion, sorry if it offends you, but that is what forums are for, opinions.

And you still can't accept it that most of errors you encounter have their origin not in the mod but in game/warlords/2.13 version ?
Why do you choose the easiest way - blame the mod?

For those who find that MAF problem makes the mod unplayable, I think they better do what I do. I simply avoid the world map scenario for now. It is a pity for sure it is quite fun but I still can enjoy the mod very much on standard, or large random maps.

We all know that the MAF problem is not the fault of modders. They might try to have workarounds but in the end if you want to have the fun of playing a rich mod you need to live with it and try any working trick.

Hopefully when TR is ported to BTS the MAF problem would go away or at least become less intense. I also hope that when you guys work on porting the MOD you will try to keep python calls on the end of turns to the minimum. If this is accomplished I would be able to play the world map as well as many others.

After some testing I have to say that some new improvements are great, but something is worse than previous version. For example, in TR Gold, almost all Civs agreed to open borders now almost all refuse it. This means we lose the utility of such agreement. Second, as already said, Bronze Working comes too late as Monarchy (in real world Monarchy is the most ancient form of government). If you want to be a warmonger, AI cant resist your army but your finances collapses very early. With 10-12 cities, with research set to 0 you lose 30-40 gp/turn! And this looks unrealistic in my opinion. At the same time, cottages are moved later with Architecture and this doesnt allow to get gold until late in the game, and frankly speaking, if a player cant manage some wars the game is simply boring, just clicking the end turn. Last, I dont like pandemia system, you lose every turn some population points without anything to do, even when you've built all health facilities in your towns. Latest, religion spreads very slowly, sometime it tooks forever to have a new city with state religion, even when all are connected.
I thank you a lot for your work and efforts, but I prefer TR gold, more funny to play, managing your resources you can expand and conquer the world already in ancient times, here almost not.

After some testing I have to say that some new improvements are great, but something is worse than previous version. For example, in TR Gold, almost all Civs agreed to open borders now almost all refuse it. This means we lose the utility of such agreement. Second, as already said, Bronze Working comes too late as Monarchy (in real world Monarchy is the most ancient form of government). If you want to be a warmonger, AI cant resist your army but your finances collapses very early. With 10-12 cities, with research set to 0 you lose 30-40 gp/turn! And this looks unrealistic in my opinion. At the same time, cottages are moved later with Architecture and this doesnt allow to get gold until late in the game, and frankly speaking, if a player cant manage some wars the game is simply boring, just clicking the end turn. Last, I dont like pandemia system, you lose every turn some population points without anything to do, even when you've built all health facilities in your towns. Latest, religion spreads very slowly, sometime it tooks forever to have a new city with state religion, even when all are connected.
I thank you a lot for your work and efforts, but I prefer TR gold, more funny to play, managing your resources you can expand and conquer the world already in ancient times, here almost not.

Opened borders are intentional. Think when was the 1st time Spanish people visited Chaina ? In BC after dicovering writing, or once tribes/kingdoms on their way have agreed not to attack their explorers ?

Architecture comes quete early in game. Its the player (you) that chooses to get it late, and you have to pay for it. My tech route is usually fishing, Toolmaking, woodworking, metal lore, stonecutting, sailing, agriculture and than going for architecture, and i never find my self low on gold both on World Map and custom maps. As for having 10-12 cities in early games you complaina bout having no cash. Persian empire and Roman were only onces that could get this big and maintain its glory for a time. Other "epire" usually collapsed before they grew. Yours is one of them.

Wargromer and AI. We allways had problems with AI. They were too weak, too stupid, than making too big stacks of units (83 on one square to attack and 44 in capitol garrison), where 3 or 4 units of that stack attacked, rest "prtected" attackers... Also large number of units made game unplatyable (long waiting time betwean turns, early MAFs). This is best we figured out.
And a thing to you. Wargromer =/= conqueror. Wargromer rather pillages and razes things and get $ for that, rather than spreads its borders.

Clicking end turn - that is big question what to do. I was asking Team to lower cost of early buildings and make their bonuses lower, but its still end turn till you finish them. On worldmap with very crowded europe there is no space to expore so you cant do it. what to do with it ? Leave it as it is, as we havent thought of anything better, nor anyone enlighted us.

Slow religion spread is intentional. Look at dates.
Zoroastrianism was founded... who knows. Cyrus has made the Persian empire arround 600 or 500 bc (cant remember the centuary doh) and its "state religion" was Zoroastrian (free religion actually). And Zoroastrianism did not existed outside Persia, sure some merchants or other faithfull left Persia looking for "better" life and were spreading it along way, but it wasnt successfull. Thats why Zoro has slow spread rate, low missionary number and high cost of them.
Judaism for 2. It was spread in Palistina, Lebanon, Assyria, Antioch and some other mid-east regions. Egypt didnt want to accept it, but it was existant there, but not by spread or missionaries, but by slaves that were Jewls.
Hinduism also hasnt left India much, or atleast in foreign lands it werent influencive enough to be considered as state religion. (in TR it spread is slow, but barable)
Buddism is 1st religion that has spread fast. Why ? Maybe becouse it was easy to accept. It had no god, so there is not "pray or die infidel". But the fact is that it has spread in India, China, Korea, Japan and even to mid-east, but that land allready belonged to Zoroastrianism and Judaism.
Christianity spreads more by Missionaries, than by it self (Jesus Christ, if not him, Christianity not only would not exist, but would not leave Jerusolem, Poland adopted Christiany thanks to Czech missionaries)
And for the end, werent you annoyed that in 1000bc half of the World was Hindu ? and once in 100bc Christianity was founded, Europe, Asia and half of Africa (other half of Africa was barbarian) was hindu ?

About religions and their spreading, in my games, still only one or two religions "conquer" the world.
In my game at huge pangea, in 1700 D.C., 8 players are hindu, 1 Christian and one Zoroatrist. The problem is not only the speed of diffusion, but that more than a religion has been discovered by one single player.
Spiritual player should discovers one religion and use that, and not discovers two religions, use only one of that and loose the other that becames unplayable.
Other thing is that AI should use missionaries, but often I found an AI player with a state religion and in late time some cities without any religion.
Changing this things, I think to see a world more variegated than now, with all the religions and a diplomacy very different.
I think also that religion is too strong to influence diplomacy, it is one of the principal cause of war and so it's very hard to diffuse a religion in late time, even because now AI don't give you open borders.
In BTS, with Apostolich palace, this problem is still bigger!!

Three things to ask, one of this I wrote some post before.

Why I can see apponement assassins in my map even if I haven't any of mine near?

I adore this mod, so I would like to know what do you think about this things:

Why when I conquer a city even in 1600..I have to rebuild all, even well? It Is not possible to conquer a city withou raze all the buildings? And why I have to build always Palissades to build Wall? I can build a wall of stone in 1200 without a wood one?

And It's possible to make too old some units? When you have infantry, I have in city a too big list of units..with also swordman..It's possible to hide oldest units as you have done with buildings?

Thank to all :goodjob:

Guys,

All you said is very interesting and is going right into our actual knowledge about what need to changed, upgraded,....

I give you there a short lists of the bugs and problems we already know and that will be "studied".
- tech tree: it seems to slower when reaching middle age and later eras. (Currently working on this personnaly ;) )
- Happiness and health ressources: too much of the first, not enough of the second. (chatting among ourselves to find the best solution, as moving back to the older system.)
- Religions: spreading problems, HS money income,.... (One of our wish to have religions working in a realitic way).
- Units: BW and units linked to are last for a too long time and need some tuning.
- Pandemia: values need to be adjusted (already done at home for us ;) ).
- Civics: we didn't implemented them by lack of time. They are probably an answer to most of the problems dealing with research, gold,....and army upkeep.

As you can read, there is still a lot of stuff to do to stabilize the mod. As i have already said, most of us are in holidays at that time - until around the middle of september. We will look at that asap.

And please, never forget that we have made this mod on our private time. We can't go as faster as everybody (us included) hope.

MAFs: For the last time, i repeat that MAFs aren't linked to our mod but to civ4. Warlords creates MAFs.... As you, i hope that BtS is "better" than Warlords and will solve this problem.

Nevertheless, in the name of the Team, thanks for your feedbacks and comments. Mixed with our own tests, we have a better vision on what failed, what need to be adjusted, etc.
Thx. :goodjob:

Hian the Frog.

Thx for the answer..an for all this work.
I know that you work on this mod in your free time and that our only help is to test it and suggest you how to improve it.
Your list is very very interesting, I would like to know more, if you can tell me, even in the future, about how you want to change that things.
Good Holidays at all!

Guys,

A feedback we really need is to know when you change era. What are the turns/years of your era change ?
This will help us to adjust the tech tree.

Hian the Frog.

Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you? I know the MAF is not directly related to your mod, however your mod has a lot more MAF errors than any other mods I have played. I am not going to sit here and argue semantics with you about what you or I said, I was just wondering if the team members thought the amount of MAF problems were bearable or not, refer to my first post. Again, you are over-reacting to my post, you need to calm down and take some criticism. There are other concerned about the MAF errors in this game, and you shouldn't tell people who come on here asking about them they maybe should play RTS games, it is rude and not funny as you claim. Smiley faces don't make something funny. The original team members didn't react to my post this way, only you, which seem to be a fairly new member to the TR team. I have enjoyed this mod in the past, but again I say this mod is unplayable for me with the MAF errors. I will try to play again once BTS version is released. I am sure you will respond with some more smart-ass remarks, but I will end it here as I have no intention to argue with you anymore.

Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you? I know the MAF is not directly related to your mod, however your mod has a lot more MAF errors than any other mods I have played. I am not going to sit here and argue semantics with you about what you or I said, I was just wondering if the team members thought the amount of MAF problems were bearable or not, refer to my first post. Again, you are over-reacting to my post, you need to calm down and take some criticism. There are other concerned about the MAF errors in this game, and you shouldn't tell people who come on here asking about them they maybe should play RTS games, it is rude and not funny as you claim. Smiley faces don't make something funny. The original team members didn't react to my post this way, only you, which seem to be a fairly new member to the TR team. I have enjoyed this mod in the past, but again I say this mod is unplayable for me with the MAF errors. I will try to play again once BTS version is released. I am sure you will respond with some more smart-ass remarks, but I will end it here as I have no intention to argue with you anymore.

Hi man,

I'm also old enough to have play on such a computer. What a progress from that time to now, isn't it ? :lol:

About the MAFs. I agree they are very annoying and something that can make some players unhappy - like you it seems. We tried to avoid as more as possible to add mod components that make the mod both slower, prone to MAFs,.... Saying the mod is unplayable is a bit too much IMO, but it's your opinion and we must respect it.
BtS will - i hope - help us to solve this problem. But i'm not absolutly sure that the problem about MAFs comes only from Warlords. I deeply think that it is also linked to windows and its way to use the memory. And in that case, there is nothing we can do. In fact, it seems that the whole system (warlords and windows) react badly with huge mods. :cry:
Vitez is old and mature enough to defend his point of view. I have just to say that some posts where something too aggressive -unlike yours - about some problems we can't really correct. His reaction was probably inadapted but he thinks like most of us in the Team: we know the problem, but we can't solved it as we really hope. MAFs are a plague that come from the hard code of Warlords and windows memory system....

Hian the Frog.

Vitez

I'm sure because I am an old man and have been playing turn-based games since original Atari, commodore-64, etc. Have you?

Yes, I have. That's why you should be more careful when writing such opinions. Well maybe the only difference is that I think I'm not old... yet ;) .

Furthermore - MAFs make me angry and I'm annoyed same as you, but I did not react to them in a way that you did. I've just reported it on our forum, got the explanation and now passing explanation to others as well... but some just don't buy it ;) .

About the MAF, my experience is that if you go into the world builder and change things while playing you increase the chances of the MAF severely. At least that is my experience.
I used to play on the world map, go into the world builder to make sure the computer AI built cities on their intended spots, if not I simply moved them to the right place and created a defensive unit or two.
This created a very balance world for the first third of a game at least, but it did increase the MAF really seriously.
While now, playing without going into the world builder I have had maybe two MAF while I before had twenty.
I really have no clue if this is luck un my part or if there is anything to this. I’m still playing on the world map, though I never open the world builder anymore.

Also, whenever I enter into the late classical age and forward I seem to get a MAF whenever I try to save myself, so now I have to quit the game after an auto save. The game auto save once every five or so turns I think.

Opened borders are intentional. Think when was the 1st time Spanish people visited Chaina ? In BC after dicovering writing, or once tribes/kingdoms on their way have agreed not to attack their explorers ?

Architecture comes quete early in game. Its the player (you) that chooses to get it late, and you have to pay for it. My tech route is usually fishing, Toolmaking, woodworking, metal lore, stonecutting, sailing, agriculture and than going for architecture, and i never find my self low on gold both on World Map and custom maps. As for having 10-12 cities in early games you complaina bout having no cash. Persian empire and Roman were only onces that could get this big and maintain its glory for a time. Other "epire" usually collapsed before they grew. Yours is one of them.

Wargromer and AI. We allways had problems with AI. They were too weak, too stupid, than making too big stacks of units (83 on one square to attack and 44 in capitol garrison), where 3 or 4 units of that stack attacked, rest "prtected" attackers... Also large number of units made game unplatyable (long waiting time betwean turns, early MAFs). This is best we figured out.
And a thing to you. Wargromer =/= conqueror. Wargromer rather pillages and razes things and get $ for that, rather than spreads its borders.

Clicking end turn - that is big question what to do. I was asking Team to lower cost of early buildings and make their bonuses lower, but its still end turn till you finish them. On worldmap with very crowded europe there is no space to expore so you cant do it. what to do with it ? Leave it as it is, as we havent thought of anything better, nor anyone enlighted us.

Slow religion spread is intentional. Look at dates.
Zoroastrianism was founded... who knows. Cyrus has made the Persian empire arround 600 or 500 bc (cant remember the centuary doh) and its "state religion" was Zoroastrian (free religion actually). And Zoroastrianism did not existed outside Persia, sure some merchants or other faithfull left Persia looking for "better" life and were spreading it along way, but it wasnt successfull. Thats why Zoro has slow spread rate, low missionary number and high cost of them.
Judaism for 2. It was spread in Palistina, Lebanon, Assyria, Antioch and some other mid-east regions. Egypt didnt want to accept it, but it was existant there, but not by spread or missionaries, but by slaves that were Jewls.
Hinduism also hasnt left India much, or atleast in foreign lands it werent influencive enough to be considered as state religion. (in TR it spread is slow, but barable)
Buddism is 1st religion that has spread fast. Why ? Maybe becouse it was easy to accept. It had no god, so there is not "pray or die infidel". But the fact is that it has spread in India, China, Korea, Japan and even to mid-east, but that land allready belonged to Zoroastrianism and Judaism.
Christianity spreads more by Missionaries, than by it self (Jesus Christ, if not him, Christianity not only would not exist, but would not leave Jerusolem, Poland adopted Christiany thanks to Czech missionaries)
And for the end, werent you annoyed that in 1000bc half of the World was Hindu ? and once in 100bc Christianity was founded, Europe, Asia and half of Africa (other half of Africa was barbarian) was hindu ?

Don't be so disappointed with me. I'm trying to give you the opinion of an experienced player that love your mod, it's the only one I play in last year, giving an idea of what a player wants to have and to do in a turn based strategy game. Of course many could have different opinions as mine, but I guess that someone will agree with me about the problems I met during the game. I know that the tech route you choose can allow you to build an economical strong empire before to try further expansion, but I want to point out that with this system and with this tech tree there are not different strategies possibile and in my opinion this is the limit of this version of the mod. For example, in previous version you could be a warmonger building as many cottages as possible as soon as possible while going for conquest, here is not enough. I go to Architecture as I discover BW, but building cottages, lighthouses and potter houses in all of my cities is not enough to avoid to set research to 0 ans still lose money, and in my opinion this makes the game umplayable if you look for a different strategy than stay in your homeland until middle times and than go to war, as it happened in Vanilla version, that I found so boring to play. What I'm saying is that this version lacks of the characteristics that made this mod the best for Civ4. I thanks a lot for your work, I know that it's a gift you gave to me, my intention is only to suggest you some changes to improve, not a pure criticism. Bye!

Hi Snake Pliskeen,

We already know about this problem and we thank you a lot as you have confirmed it.

In fact, the main problem was that the mod was released without the full tests we were looking for. So, there are still some problems. They will be solved asap, belive me. I can't play by myself the mod i was looking for. ;) The mod is running badly as soon as you have reach early middle age: low research, low gold,....

As i have said, the new civic system wasn't implemented. I really think that this one will solve most of our actual problems.

Hian the frog.

Hi man

I am new (n00b) here but I have played Civ Games since 1985 when it was released for Amiga 500 inside a single floppy... Nice times :)

I love this mod I always play and Vanilla or Warlords are a couple of steps under the quality of "your creature". More units, more deep, more resources and a very nice gameplay.

Now I would like to help you in the difficult task of balancing TR2.2 reporting when i change era in single game and other things I think could help you more.

Good job guys (and sorry for my poor english) .

Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?
Last, I would expected that units as informant could get some experience after successful spying missions, would it be changed in the next patch? Maybe with proprer promotion that gives more chances to accomply future mission, what do you think? Too complicated maybe? Thank you!

shortswordsmans upgrade to levy and irregulars. They are cheap equipped and nearelly drafted into army rather than trained as swordsmans do.
If you lack production or resources, shortswordsmans are your army.

shortswordsmans upgrade to levy and irregulars. They are cheap equipped and nearelly drafted into army rather than trained as swordsmans do.
If you lack production or resources, shortswordsmans are your army.

That's true, but Snake Pliskeen did indeed point out an inconsistency we have. Probably we should allow a more sophisticated upgrade path.

Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?

I agree with this to some extent. It was nice to have your experienced polybian legionaries become imperial and continue fighting - peasant servitude is quite a way off and these experienced units now just lie dormant while the imperial and praetorian gaurds rule the world. but i do like the idea of cheap irregulars which complement the main force nicely!

I think a more spohisticated upgrade path suggested by Walter would be the answer!

Playing as Roma, I couldnt upgrade polibian leg. to imperial leg. anymore. Is it intentional? I hope not because it doesnt look logical to me. Polibians are shortswordmen, imperials are swordmen, why I cant upgrade them then? When I get IW I will never build polibian anymore as imperial is available, so better to give the possibility to upgrade them and let polibian go obsolete. What do you think?
Last, I would expected that units as informant could get some experience after successful spying missions, would it be changed in the next patch? Maybe with proprer promotion that gives more chances to accomply future mission, what do you think? Too complicated maybe? Thank you!

About units: i can be easily changed. It's not so complicated and will need at best one hour of work. More, your suggestion makes us thinking that these units can receive a new role. Wait a bit, we are discussing about this....

Experience of Spy units: can be added too. To not lie, it's not a priority. We will discuss about this too. It's not very complicated to add too. It just need to be well thought and balanced.

Hian the Frog.

Hi man

I am new (n00b) here but I have played Civ Games since 1985 when it was released for Amiga 500 inside a single floppy... Nice times :)

I love this mod I always play and Vanilla or Warlords are a couple of steps under the quality of "your creature". More units, more deep, more resources and a very nice gameplay.

Now I would like to help you in the difficult task of balancing TR2.2 reporting when i change era in single game and other things I think could help you more.

Good job guys (and sorry for my poor english) .

Welcome to TR World ! ;)

All help are welcome too.
What i'm looking for at that time is the years/turns you are changing eras. Note that i need the type of maps, number of civs and difficulty level.

Enjoy the mod. :)

Hian the Frog.

While trying to find more information and understanding on this problem, which there is quite a bit on these forums - ranging from the fault being with large mods, Firaxis coding etc etc... The ViSa mod reckon they have a workaround for the MAF problem, whether this only works with ther mod or if it could be implemented into yours I do not know, but maybe worth looking into?

On a rather late note disabling the autosave doesn't work it just MAFFED out on the next general save I made:mad:

Playing with Romans I enter in industrial era in 1720AD. Earth Map. Prince level.

Personal considerations about TR

I like the idea that I need an appropriate building to produce Axemen when I have acces to Bronze. I do not think this stop early wars because it is possible to attack with Shortswordmen. Generally speaking I apreciate I can concentrate myself on other thechs knowing that my archers are strong enough to resist an attack of Shirtswordmen and I have not to race to learn asap Bronze Working.

Fixing the game

I would apreciate if it is possible to hide promos on units indicating only the best one of that type. So if I have an unit with 5 stars (I do not remember the name ot that promo) it would be nice if TR shows only the best, hiding from 1 to 4 stars promos. I see this in an other mod (ffh? I do not remembre).

Furthermore I please you to reduce the pandemic change because I think it is high: I always have citizens dying in my cities even if they have all appropriate buildings. I suggest to implement a special and permanent structure like an infirmary to cure sick citizens reducing pandemic possibility to spread in all my empire.

Assassin is now a very useless unit because he is only able to sabotate production. I think this is intentional because the old assassin generates errors.

MAF

I made 120 turns using a lot the editor, saving each turn and going often to desktop in an Huge Pangea map with 9 opponents and I have not had it. I am a very lucky man?

120 turns is too low. It begans arround 400.

Personal considerations about TR

I like the idea that I need an appropriate building to produce Axemen when I have acces to Bronze. I do not think this stop early wars because it is possible to attack with Shortswordmen. Generally speaking I apreciate I can concentrate myself on other thechs knowing that my archers are strong enough to resist an attack of Shirtswordmen and I have not to race to learn asap Bronze Working.

Fixing the game

I would apreciate if it is possible to hide promos on units indicating only the best one of that type. So if I have an unit with 5 stars (I do not remember the name ot that promo) it would be nice if TR shows only the best, hiding from 1 to 4 stars promos. I see this in an other mod (ffh? I do not remembre).

Furthermore I please you to reduce the pandemic change because I think it is high: I always have citizens dying in my cities even if they have all appropriate buildings. I suggest to implement a special and permanent structure like an infirmary to cure sick citizens reducing pandemic possibility to spread in all my empire.

Assassin is now a very useless unit because he is only able to sabotate production. I think this is intentional because the old assassin generates errors.

MAF

I made 120 turns using a lot the editor, saving each turn and going often to desktop in an Huge Pangea map with 9 opponents and I have not had it. I am a very lucky man?

I totally agree with you for what concern pandemia. In my games, after 3000 years, my capital cant grow over 5-6 units of pop even with all facilities built and lot of food resources, because too often stroke by pandemia with citizen losses. In this case a strange situation arises: all lands worked, cottages built, but not enough pop to work and so no money for troops and further expansion.
I dont agree with you for what concern BW because shortswordmen are available only with BW :-) I've never used Axemen to attack cities. I think it would be better to have the possibility to research BW without Pottery for example or Wheel or both, it would better :-) I say that because until BW a player has nothing to do than click end of turn or little more.
Just a question, what does it means MAF you are talking about ?, I cant remember.