Anyone else annoyed that some civs unique buildings (like the Native American's) go obsolete, whereas others (the Sumerian's) does not? Are the ones that go obsolete really so much better that their uselessness later on is justified?

Of course we've noticed that. It's up to you whether the ones that go obsolete are better than the ones that don't.

It bothers me, too, but I think the only really problematic one is the Dun, because it goes obsolete relatively eariler and many players don't seem to build walls very often anyway.

Still, it's slightly better than it was in Warlords. Monuments now go obsolete with Astronomy instead of Calender, so unique monument buildings have a longer useful lifespan.

The worst one is by far the Spanish Citadel, given that it replaces the Castle and shares it's ridiculously short lifespan before becoming obsolete.

On the other hand, the promotions you get from them last the entire game. :)

Totem Pole goes obsolete at a time you no longer gain benefit from it anyway - you probably can't build Archery units when you reach Astronomy?
Ger is similar, but Gunships come even later.

Citadel indeed has very short lifespan. Even Dun has longer lifespan, although I'd consider Dun less useful than Citadel (if it granted Guerilla I to melee units as well it'd be very nice).

I guess I'll have to play Ethiopia to post-Astronomy era at some point to see how Seele's fare. Remember that cultural effect of a building stays even when it goes obsolete otherwise? Will cultural multiplier which Seele has stay too?

Overall I've come to play in a way without UBs or UUs. I'll use them when they're useful, skip them otherwise. I don't rely on them. One reason I've come to this is that I like Washington's (and now Lincoln's) trait combinations, which means UU and UB are very late in the game - practically when game has been decided already.

Hi

Yeah some UBs going absolete is a lil annoying. I think the FAIR way would be to make it so if it is a UB that goes obselete then ONLY the traits of whatever builing it replacing should be obsoleted but any traits that make it a UB should still be in effect. Like when you resaerch rifling and are playing celts Duns no longer can be built and any existing dun no longer give protection BUT they would still give the gurellia promotions to archery and gunpowder units.

But it not a that big a deal that if something like that didnt happen it would ruin the game or something or get upset if they never change it.

About the only UB obselence deal I hope DOES get changed is fact that when they made stables go obsoelte with advanced flight they forgot to include gers so gers still go obsolete with Rocketry. Because that seems more like a bug/mistake that needs fixing than just a game choice decision I would have done differently.

Kaytie

I agree on the Citadel, way too short duration. The totem pole is useless anyway after astronomy.

Totem Pole is absolutely great.When you have researched Astronomy, Longbows should have been already researched since a lot of time and Native Americans archers are absolutely great with the Totem Pole.Citadel and Dun are far worse.

I don't dispute the usefulness of the Citadel, but honestly, unless you're on Marathon it's possible to fly right past it without ever building one. Even on Marathon it doesn't last long, especially since Economics is a tech you want to get sooner rather than later.

Yup, citadels sure are bad. Castles are almost never built, and the improvements to seige units are under-whelming. Dun is another one that on first glance looked useless as well. Seeing as they're bad to begin with, and are obsolete fairly quickly, it would be pretty annoying (if I played as Spain/Celts, which I don't really).

Yeah Citadels can build extremely powerful trebuchets and they are quite a pain to bombard but it doesn't make up for the extremely short duration...

do obsolete buildings like monasteries still give you culture while science bonus is gone when scientific method is found? what sucks is when enemy spies destroy my obsolete buildings and i can't ever build them again. last time they kept targeting my walls/castles and monastaries in the modern age.