Available with Printing Press. Must have the religion of the Apostolic Palace and cannot be built the civilization that owns the Apostolic Palace or the Resident's civilization.

We've heard endless complaints about AP this and AP that. It can be frustrating by sending those who don't to war and stopping wars and handing back cities.

Well the real Apostolic Palace didn't make everyone happy and didn't unite all.

Here's the solution.

An early World Project that cannot be rushed but if built powerful in that it will still give you IMMUNITY from Apostolic Palace decisions.

So this could mean being able to hold on to that valuable conquered city or not going on a Holy War etc...

Don't have any suggestion on how exactly it should work but that's the basics I'm suggesting.

Good idea?

It would be nice indeed.... and it should add negative relations with the AP Religion holders.... and possibly add some hammers/commerce (protestant effect)

It would be nice indeed.... and it should add negative relations with the AP Religion holders.... and possibly add some hammers/commerce (protestant effect)

Thanks. Unfortunately, no one else seems interested. :(

Probably too busy striving to assert their country's dominance over others..... seems a reoccuring theme here! ;)


Maybe people just don't know much about the Reformation.... (this statement is a chain-yanker, anyone reading it will instantly head to Wikipedia to become an expert and give you thousands of pages of incisive arguments!)

:D

Actually, I was thinking something along the same line (except my idea was a World Wonder named All Saints' Church, after the church to which the theses were nailed).

Here's a suggestion: have it require a Great Prophet to initialize the project - much like Luther getting things started with his 95 theses; no more than X turns to build it, where X = 50 on a standard map at normal game speed - this way even a weak production civ has a chance to break free via The Glorious Reformation - assuming stronger members are building other things like wonders or armies.

Unfortunately the concept begs a major diplomatic penalty with the principal resident of the AP (and any of his/her vassals) that should take many, many years to taper off and never really be reduced to zero. However, any other civs who have been targets of the AP cabal's actions might be more friendly with you for a while...

I'm not sure if other benefits are needed, but a +1 hammer from all buildings associated with your state religion in your empire - that would certainly be nice - and it would suit the symbolism of "rebuilding"/reforming a faith.

Also, maybe it could have a feature that a random chance exists other civs who share your state religion may "join" The Glorious Reformation sometime after it is built, i.e. they "break free" from association with the AP and go on their merry way on their own again.

Perhaps around the time of Scientific Method or Biology, the hammer benefit expires and the random chance of others "joining" is reduced by 50% (to reflect the profound changes of world view caused by the sudden growth in scientific thought and research, i.e. ancient earth knowledge, the development of earth sciences like geology, and the Theory of Evolution). Note that Communism is next so while the GR is weaken by science, the AP takes a hit shortly too. And the UN is a but 3 - 4 tech away... With corporations gaining presence at the same time, the sun will set upon religion thematically quite nicely.

That's my 2 cents for now :)

Oh yeah, as per Spearthrower, the obligatory wikipedia linky: Protestant Reformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation). :p :lol:

IMHO this is one of the best suggestions in this forum... i'd really like this in my game!

It would be very satisfying doing a Henry VIII

"Yeah, well screw you, I'm making my own religion"

And then go divorce Isabella with a big army despite their protests.

It would be very satisfying doing a Henry VIII

"Yeah, well screw you, I'm making my own religion"

And then go divorce Isabella with a big army despite their protests.

:D
It is so strange that a Religious reform came, in part, because some guy needed to divorce his wife just so to get more women..
.
.
But about the reform in the game, I completely agree! It really would be nice.

IMHO this is one of the best suggestions in this forum... i'd really like this in my game!

Thanks. :)

It would be very satisfying doing a Henry VIII

"Yeah, well screw you, I'm making my own religion"

And then go divorce Isabella with a big army despite their protests.

Great, now I'll never be able to take another British Lit class without giving Henry VIII Bender's voice.

"Yeah? Well I'll go create my own church! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the church! Somebody bring me an entire roasted sheep!"

Yes, this is one of the better ideas, and a clever way to introduce religious schisms without necessarily entailing one for every religion. :thumbsup:

I would even be willing to look into modding it, but I don't have time in the near future. Maybe in a few weeks. :)

I like it.... but... Maybe the reformation is available with Divine Right and requires Printing Press? Divine Right is so useless right now...

Unfortunately the concept begs a major diplomatic penalty with the principal resident of the AP (and any of his/her vassals) that should take many, many years to taper off and never really be reduced to zero. However, any other civs who have been targets of the AP cabal's actions might be more friendly with you for a while...
I think it'd be great if it came with -1 Diplo for all full members and -2 for the owner of the AP. That's it. More diplo penalties would make it undesirable to have and being independent of the AP is really a great option.

Another option would be limiting all religious bonuses to +2 when you've accomplished reformation. Basically it would be: we don't really like what you did with our religion, but it's still better than taking on some other religion or no religion at all.

Great idea, Bast! :goodjob:

I reckon there should be no diplomatic bonuses or penalties at all. Sometimes people do indeed follow the "your religion's kinda simliar to ours, let's be friends approach", but others it's the complete reverse.

After all, didn't they launch a crusade against Constantinople? And look at Ireland. Differences within a religion cause almost as many wars as between different ones.