I cant see the point of spending much at all early on esp. Its only worth getting enough to cause a city revolt for wars, anything more is going to cripple your research for very little payback. If you get a great spy and infiltrate a city, its all well and good, but to gain enough EPs to steal tech you would have to absolutelu cripple your own research...

any thoughts? any refuations?

I really think the point of early espionage spending is so that you will have the ability to make use of your spies later on in the game. Truly, I think the use of espionage and spies is only really beneficial later in the game when more modern warfare units kick in.

If they were to re-vamp the nuclear weapons in the game as I had suggested in the Manhattan Project thread (Now on Page 2 here), the spies would become REALLY useful and would become a lot more enjoyable to use. (As you could now steal nuclear secrets and the chances of your missiles failing would decrease dramatically the more "secrets" you obtain. Of course, getting caught trying to steal nuclear secrets could result in a massive war breaking out).

I'm new to BtS, and still feeling my way around the added espionage functions. Which is more important; actual spies, or just spending on espionage?

I'm new to BtS, and still feeling my way around the added espionage functions. Which is more important; actual spies, or just spending on espionage?

Espionage spending, without any actual spies, can eventually let you see your opponents cities, what they're researching, and what their cities are building. To actually carry out any spy missions and spend the points you've accumulated, you'll need a spy unit. Most of the time I place a spy in each of my own cities for defense against espionage before I ever start sending them into opponents' cities to carry out missions.

Yeah me too... to me, its more a question of counter espionage than proactive spying

Most of the time I place a spy in each of my own cities for defense against espionage before I ever start sending them into opponents' cities to carry out missions.

I heard rumors about this not having an effect in BTS, but i even saw it on the tooltips when loading my game the other day. Any sources that confirm it helps to have a spies in your own cities performing counterespionage?

Well the "Spy" unit is the only one with the CounterEspionage setting set to true, in the XML data. (I'm actually not sure about the specific spelling of that setting.) So unless they didn't implement it in code, otherwise the Spy unit will help you counter espionage.

Well the "Spy" unit is the only one with the CounterEspionage setting set to true, in the XML data. (I'm actually not sure about the specific spelling of that setting.) So unless they didn't implement it in code, otherwise the Spy unit will help you counter espionage.

is this a zone of control sort of thing? how many squares can a spy see? as for the original question about spending, i don't spend much early either. i rely on the possiblity of a great spy with the great wall and my courthouses to give esp points. later on when everything is running smooth, i go up to 10%, i dont recall ever going more than that. i do shift my weights around a lot however b/c if you can get 50+ esp points a turn on someone, stealing tech is feasible. i haven't done any caluclations on what the impact that 10% would have on my tech rate and if i would be better off devoting it to science, but that would be vague to firgure out anyway as there are otther uses for esp points, like the sabotage of walls and other buildings.

a settled great spy with rep is +12 esp and +7 beakers (iirc). thats a pretty good deal, but an infiltrated spy can be pretty good too. an early infiltrated spy can net like 5-6 techs, great for filling out the ancient/classical era w/out needing to trade off your own techs.

Passive espionage is much more important than spy missions. Knowing exactly what troops are in which enemy city is invaluble when going to war, or when you have aggressive neighbours.