That's why we need new rules at European level, and a sport exception to other business regulations, as a football club's aim IMO shouldn't be about making money. If we have to accept anything big clubs (and corporations) want, what do we have (or haven't) governments for?

Why should the Premiership suffer because of the inability of other nations to sell their brand of football?

When looking at this dominance of English teams, I think we should also look back at how it used to be years ago. Real Madrid won 5 times in a row in the 50ies ('56 - '60), won it again in '66 and was 2 times runner up in the years between. (And Barcelona was runner up once in that period too). '63 - '65 gave 3 Italian victories, '70 - '73 gave 4 Dutch victories in a row, followed by 3 Bayern Munchen victories, followed by 7 (!) English victories.

In comparison, we've had 4 Spanish, 2 English, 2 Italian, 1 German and 1 Portugese victory in the last 10 years. (Add another English victory this year).

In my opinion, today's competition looks more competitive.There's a big differences beween the past dominations and nowadays. Indeed, in the past, players couldn't as easily play in foreign championships and they generally made their whole carreer in the same club. As such, those dominations where the result of golden generations and could vanish as fast as the good shape of players.

The problem today is that money is much more important to make a squad and keep the best players. If all the richest clubs concentrate in a single championship, then the result would be to make of it the only "elite" championship. Fortunately, even today, money isn't everything to determine a successful team. Managers can make bad choices as it's been the case in Real Madrid at the end of the galacticos era. Furthermore, there's no reason why there wouldn't be an FC Porto to win the champions league every once in a while. However, at the opposite of what happened in the past, an FC Porto has no chance to keep its full squad after winning the CL.

We can still hope that after few bad choices, English team will decline and Spanish or Italian teams will take the lead, one after the other, bringing a bit more variety, but we know that this can't happen for any other leagues because no team outside of these 3 countries can compete financially speaking. The current risk is Spanish and Italian leagues being relegated at the same level as Portuguese, Dutch, German or French leagues.

All in all, I start really to wonder if a Euroleague wouldn't be the best solution to keep strong teams scattered all over Europe. We could imagine a system of relegation where the three last teams of the Euroleague are replaced by the three teams winning something like today's UEFA cup, making breath the system.

I know this system isn't liked by a heavy national oriented football culture. But don't be silly, it's been a while that there's nothing national oriented in football anymore. Because we are all ugly chauvinists we like our team to have foreign players because it makes us feel important, but what is really specifically English in teams such as Arsenal or Chelsea today?

Why should the Premiership suffer because of the inability of other nations to sell their brand of football?

I understand that as an Australian you care little for Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian, French, German leagues, etc... But As a European, I'd rather have 8 or 9 leagues being able to produce European champions, like 20 years ago than 3 or 4. Plus I repeat, football needs to become a sport again, not just a business.

I understand that as an Australian you care little for Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian, French, German leagues, etc... But As a European, I'd rather have 8 or 9 leagues being able to produce European champions, like 20 years ago than 3 or 4. Plus I repeat, football needs to become a sport again, not just a business.

If anyone needs a reason to reintroduce the three foreigners rule and have wage caps, they need look no further than this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1W5-qrxXu_E

That was the late 1980s, not so long ago. The players that Dundee Utd team had were far superior to current Rangers and Celtic players, but nowadays it's impossible to keep such players and build a great team unless you are a top team in the English or similar leagues. :cry: The Dundee Utds of this world have no chance. So their crowds fall and the gap between top and lower widens, and so on ad infinitum. Who really ever wanted that?

Who really ever wanted that?The G14.
____________

All in all, I start really to wonder if a Euroleague wouldn't be the best solution to keep strong teams scattered all over Europe. We could imagine a system of relegation where the three last teams of the Euroleague are replaced by the three teams winning something like today's UEFA cup, making breath the system.

I know this system isn't liked by a heavy national oriented football culture. But don't be silly, it's been a while that there's nothing national oriented in football anymore. Because we are all ugly chauvinists we like our team to have foreign players because it makes us feel important, but what is really specifically English in teams such as Arsenal or Chelsea today?

But then you run the risk of making the teams left behind even poorer, because you take the best teams out of the top leagues and with them, alot of the TV so less money for the smaller clubs, also you could get a similar sought of situation as with the Premiership and the Championship, where some of the teams promoted may not be able to cope at all with the level of competition, ie if Tottenham or Everton made it, under their current team i couldn't see them beating many could you?

I wouldn't totally disagree about a Euro league, it would make the Premiership much more competitive, i would like to try and keep the fans at the centre (instead of making it an entirely buisness venture)

Final tonight! I hope Manchester wins it, but I've put my money on Chelsea, purely to have something to cheer for, just in case. ;) What are your thoughts?

Final tonight! I hope Manchester wins it, but I've put my money on Chelsea, purely to have something to cheer for, just in case. ;) What are your thoughts?

couldnt care less, but bet on "chelsea wins the trophy" combined with the turkey win over slovakia (friendly) yesterday...

Really want Man U to win, because i really despise Chelsea. Plus Man U have played better football this year and deserve to win it.

Really want Man U to win, because i really despise Chelsea. Plus Man U have played better football this year and deserve to win it.

I agree. I dislike Ronaldo though.

I want Man U to win and I will be watching it live, so that means I need to get some sleep before the game starts.

I agree. I dislike Ronaldo though.

He one of those players who completely amazes me everytime i watch him but still annoys me because of it, Henry when he played for Arsenal was also like that.

I agree. I dislike Ronaldo though.

i respect ferguson. but ronaldo alone is enough to sincerely loathe the team.

Hoping for Man. United, they deserve it more.

Though I (like everyone) dislike C. Ronaldo

Anyone but Chelsea. I got to go for the team I used to like, Manchester United. This opening ceremony is a bit interesting.

It's starting!

A bit interesting of a first half. Man U could have easily had a 3-1 lead now, but these bad breaks happen all of the time, especially ones that give opposing teams a goal. Second half should be a good one.

It's been a good game so far, Man U could've very easily been up 3-0, instead of 1-1. I suppose that'll keep the game more interesting though.

Nope!

Extra time starting. I see Chelsea walking away the winner this time.

ooh a fight...

Something happened to tevez...

Drogba got red, mekele got yellow and tevez got yellow.

edit:
Unrelated to the fight but...

essien just got a yellow to.

:lol: Drogba very slap-happy there.

nani and cole now!

They headed each other this time...

Chelsea does a last minute switch, Baletti goes in for makelele

ManU also does one. Anderson takes in for brown.

it's now 1-1 after 120 minutes.

It's going to penalty shootout.

this should be fun.

oh the drama, who will be the scapegoat?

ok i'll edit this page after each penalty kick. (for those who can't watch and are reading this thread).

now we're just waiting for the first kick...

there tossing a coin to see who goes first. Van de sar and Cech don't seem to happy. :p

ManU goes first..
Edit:
Tevez shoots! scores!!!
Edit:
Now for chelsea Ballack

BALLACK SCORES!!!

Edit: it's 1-1 in shootouts.

ManU's turn,

they score!

Edit: Chelsea now,

Baletti!

2-2! :D

Edit: ManU, Ronaldo

SAVED!!!!! HOLY
RONALDO OF ALL PEOPLE!!!!
CECH SAVED RONALDO!!!!! Ronaldo stopped anyway so... it would've started again
edit:
Lampard now, HE SCORES!!!!!

3-2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
Edit:
Hargreaves now...

HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit:Chelsea now...

COLE SHOOTS!!!!

Van De Sar get's the hand of it...

BUT IT BOUNCES OF AND GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

ManU now...

Nani's turn, he has to score or it's over...
SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4-2

If terry scorees CHELSEA WINS!!!!!!!

TERRY SHOOTS AND SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 don't know what happened but it didn't count..

ANDERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE SCORES

4-4!!!

CALOU!!!!! CHELSEA IS STILL ALIVE!!!!!!!1

Giggs now...
SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5-5

Anelka now..

SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

erm, Nani Scored and Terry missed, you editing is a little off

NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!


fgidfjes gh f fdgbsbnju idkl


:gripe:

not MANU NOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

NO arghhhj

DAMNIT :gripe::gripe:

:( :( :(

As a Liverpool fan i didn't really care who won, but I've always hated Anelka so the ending was hilarious to me XD

Nope!

oh the drama, who will be the scapegoat?

Drogba, without a doubt IMO.

Damnit! Scum win :(

Fun shoot-out. As a neutral, I'm pretty sure the better team lost this one. Chelsea deserved to win it, but c'est la vie. Glad for Alex Ferguson though and it was a really great final.

And now for the big games tomorrow! ;)

Wow. United could have (should have ?) wrapped this up before half-time. Chelsea owned the second half, and were the better of the two, I think, in extra-time.

I was convinced before the shoot-out that Ronaldo would prat about and then miss (and loudly declaimed thus to anyone who would listen, and many who would rather not have :)). But I just didn't think Terry would miss - the man has nerves of steel, and for him to slip and miss is just awful (and it was a slip, and I think without that he scores and Chelsea win).

I have little sympathy for Anelka (well, OK, a little), as he has always struck me as close to the archetypal football prostitute - he doesn't care who he's playing for, as long as he gets paid as much as possible. The contrast between him and the last United penalty taker, Ryan Giggs, couldn't be greater, and for those of us who supported Man U, it seems some sort of fitting reward for the two players involved.

But poor John Terry. :(

Football. Bloody hell.

I was convinced before the shoot-out that Ronaldo would prat about and then miss (and loudly declaimed thus to anyone who would listen, and many who would rather not have :)).
:D
I did the very same. And several people agreed. It was rather obvious, really.
But I just didn't think Terry would miss
We were all saying "uh, an Englishman for the decisive penalty". And it happened the way it had to happen...

Bloody wet slippy grass. That was some ten millions of euro, prestige, history and maybe even Lampard that just slipped out of sight with Terrys unstable foot. Poor hero. But if there is anyone that can be forgiven, its him. Without doubt.

Lets sell Kalou, SWP, Malouda and Anelka. Useless all of them.

Bloody wet slippy grass. That was some ten millions of euro, prestige, history and maybe even Lampard that just slipped out of sight with Terrys unstable foot. Poor hero. But if there is anyone that can be forgiven, its him. Without doubt.

Lets sell Kalou, SWP, Malouda and Anelka. Useless all of them.

Nice attitude, Roman! ;)

It was very nerve racking watching the Penalty Shoot out. I was a bit surprised that Terry missed that, but thankfully he did. Chelsea were very fortunate to even be in the game after half time, such as was Man U's dominance. You could see by the end of the 90 minutes that it was going to be penalties, since the players we out off their fet at the time. The pitch did make the final much tougher than it should hae been.

Chelsea were very fortunate to even be in the game after half time, such as was Man U's dominance.

True, but then again they were pretty unlucky to hit the woodwork twice. Plus Terry's penalty...

I think Chelsea fans are pretty pissed off...

You can tell by looking on all Manchester United and Chelsea related articles on wikipedia...

my personal favorites is Sir Alex Ferguson's entire page being replaced by "" and Family background

Anelka's parents are from Martinique (French overseas department). He has two brothers, Claude and Didier Drogba.

By the way, TLO36, given that this is the Champions League thread and you are apparently a supporter of Wisla Krakow, how are their chances to make the CL? If I recall correctly you won the Polish championship, right? If so, how much qualifying does the Polish champion have to pass to reach the group phase? I know I could theoretically look it up somewhere, but well...

I would say that Chelsea was unlucky today.

I think this link will hlep explain a bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2008-09

Basically we have to get out of the second qualifying round(should be easy) then get lucky and face a team like Slavia Prague instead of Arsenal or Barcelona in the third qualification, then if we beat a weaker team we get to the group stage (which is good enough) but if we face barcelona for example, i say odds are 1 in 10 we beat them. Perhaps less.

Untill our national league becomes better, don't even think about us getting past the group stage. :p

True, but then again they were pretty unlucky to hit the woodwork twice. Plus Terry's penalty...

Terry nodded away an open goal from giggs whilst cech made two good saves from tevez and carrick plus an almighty cock up from tevez. I don't think any team was more deserving than the other to win it but glad United did, i've lost my voice from the shouting! United pretty much dominated the first half whilst chelsea were absolutly dominant in the second but i would say united just edged extra time, except for the lampard chance they rarely looked threatening.

If i was a neutral one thing which would have swayed me towards united was the constant hounding of the referee throughout the game whenever a decision went against Chelsea, drogba's sending off was just the culmination of a bunch of chelsea players getting involved for no reason. Tevex had kicked the ball off so chelsea could have the ball in a similar fashion to how chelsea themselves had been doing the whole game so im mystified why they got so arsey.

Chelsea had a larger number of credible chances and dominated the game after the equalizer was scored. That Chelsea deserved to win is the opinion of this neutral and was also, btw, the opinion of the analysts on ITV! ;) As for hounding the referee, well, it didn't have any positive effect for them, so doesn't matter.

Bloody wet slippy grass. That was some ten millions of euro, prestige, history and maybe even Lampard that just slipped out of sight with Terrys unstable foot. Poor hero. But if there is anyone that can be forgiven, its him. Without doubt.

Lets sell Kalou, SWP, Malouda and Anelka. Useless all of them.

Van Der Sar slipping in almost the exact same spot was what let Chelsea back in the game in the first place. But I agree that Terry can be forgiven, one of the Chelsea forwards probably should've put there hand up and taken the kick.

Chelsea had a larger number of credible chances and dominated the game after the equalizer was scored. That Chelsea deserved to win is the opinion of this neutral and was also, btw, the opinion of the analysts on ITV! ;) As for hounding the referee, well, it didn't have any positive effect for them, so doesn't matter.

Man U dominated the first 45, and very easily could've (and probably should've) been up 3-0 at the half if Tevez had converted instead of missing the ball completely and Carrick had pushed his shot to either side instead of at Cech. Not to say that Chelsea didn't dominate the second half, because they ended up unlucky not to get ahead with a number of close chances, but neither team stood up and deserved a win, and as far as I'm concerned the penalty shootout was the only way the teams could've been seperated over the 120 minutes as far as I'm concerned. And Drogba's stupid . .. .. .. .. .-slap put Chelsea in a very uncomfortable position for the shootout, which I think showed through in the eventual result.

=and was also, btw, the opinion of the analysts on ITV

Well, if you think siding with Andy Townsend adds strength to your position, then all well and good. :lol:;)

Quite frankly Chelsea got what they deserved, some of the play acting in the first half (and all season) was just outragous. Man U play some excellant football in the firsthalf, if Chelsea hadn't scored towards the end of the half, then i would have put money on it being one of Man U's best matches. Chelsea were very very lucky to still be in it at half time. Then in the second half they did play rather well and should have scored several times, but they could have let in more Man U goals (Giggs for one). It was harsh on Terry, of all the players in the Chelsea squad (maybe Essien as well), he's the only one i would consider to play fairly (the rest of them should really be given yellow cards as soon as the match starts :rolleyes:)
But that makes up for Liverpool this season, Chelsea were in three tournaments down to the last match and they lost all of them :D

=and was also, btw, the opinion of the analysts on ITV

It was quite fun watching trying not to be biased for a changed! :lol:

Van der Sar to Dutch television, after the match: "I've finally have that Hans van Breukelen moment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nimfNFLr7g) I've been chasing my entire career."

Glad Chel$ki didn't win, although they deserved to win.
It was quite fun to see 2 of the most arrogant players (Ronaldo and Terry) miss their penalties.

Glad Chel$ki didn't win

Because Man U is a small humble club with no money to spare?

Because Man U is a small humble club with no money to spare?

Well compared to the potential wealth of Chelsea, yes. :)

Because Man U is a small humble club with no money to spare?
Man U's rich as a consequence of decades of great football.
Chelsea's rich as a consequence of being a rich mafioso's money-laundrying-toy.
I have no particular sympathy for Man U, I just despise Chelsea and the conception of football behind it.

Man U's rich as a consequence of decades of great football.
Chelsea's rich as a consequence of being a rich mafioso's money-laundrying-toy.
I have no particular sympathy for Man U, I just despise Chelsea and the conception of football behind it.

Aaah come one. If great football was the only reason, why isn't a club like Ajax just as rich?

Aaah come one. If great football was the only reason, why isn't a club like Ajax just as rich?

Because people in Manchester obviously understood the buisness opportunities and took advantage of them a lot more than Ajax did.

Possibly the first time my team has ever won a major penalty shootout.

Football. Bloody hell.

If English domination means more finals like this, where do I sign?

If English domination means more finals like this, where do I sign?

Me too. It was pretty breathless stuff, wasn't it ? Been quite a while since I've been so enthralled by a game.

Me too. It was pretty breathless stuff, wasn't it ? Been quite a while since I've been so enthralled by a game.

I had a Latin exam this morning, so I wanted to go to bed early, but I just didn't want to miss this.

Let's hope Euro 2008 will be as good as this.

Me too. It was pretty breathless stuff, wasn't it ? Been quite a while since I've been so enthralled by a game.

Highlights how Avram Grant is the special one, look at the past final the two contested- a damp squib and the only difference was Mourinhio in charge. I'm joking. Sort of.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8854/terryuo1.jpg

Ho ho

Hilarious.

Tres funny.

Well compared to the potential wealth of Chelsea, yes. :)

If every Manchester united fan in the world donated 1 pound to Manchester United, then Manchester united will have over 325 Million pounds. :p

If every Manchester united fan in the world donated 1 pound to Manchester United, then Manchester united will have over 325 Million dollars. :p

Man Utd only has 12 fans? ;)

chelsea should have gotten a penalty in the 89th and won the game. what the hell was ferdinand thinking?

Can't recall the incident. Haven't had many (well, any) Chelsea fans telling me about the penalty they were denied. Got a link to a clip ?

Was that the blatant dive? Or was that one of those just outside the box?

Was that the blatant dive? Or was that one of those just outside the box?

It was just outside the box iirc. Although i think it was in the box.

Also, BCLG100 could explain your post? i don't understand.

Also, BCLG100 could explain your post? i don't understand.

You said orginally

If every Manchester united fan in the world donated 1 pound to Manchester United, then Manchester united will have over 325 Million dollars.

And he is just joking about the exchange rate between the dollar and the pound (There that sucked out the laughter out of the joke :p)

BCLG was probably referring to the worth of a $ to a £. So 12 fans at £1 each, leads to an enormous amount of $$$.

I guess.

It was just outside the box iirc. Although i think it was in the box.

Also, BCLG100 could explain your post? i don't understand.

I thought it was outside the box as well, i couldnt understand why everyone was going on about the penalty when initial contact was made outside the box.

Was making a pun about the exchange rate of pound and dollers. Though it appeared others have explained it.

About Terry's penalty kick: In the view of many, it was bad luck for him to slip away.

On Dutch TV, Johan Cruijff explained that even on a slippery field, a regular professional football player should not slip when kicking a penalty, corner or free kick. It's different in the action of play, but a ball just lying on its place, should be properly kicked regardless of the wheather and ground. apart form that, he was the 14th man to kick the same ball from exactly the same spot. None of the other 13 had slipped.

Cruyff reckoned he changed his plan (to kick to his right instead of to his left), during the run. That's fine if your name is Romario, but when you are #7 in a penalty shoot-out line-up, you should pick a side and go for it, without thinking.