I see there's not been a thread on this so far. So far the Champions League has only been about the riff-raff. Now the big boys are coming in.

This year I think is one of the strongest draws ever. Not that many bad teams in it. But among the contenders will be Rosenborg, who got the easiest side ever in the history of the Universe because that team knocked out Genk. Not among the contenders once again are Ajax. I remember the times when Ajax were a side everyone feared and admired; ah well, Slavia Prague are a strong team, and Ajax were unlucky to get them. If they'd gotten BATE, IF Elfsborg or Sarajevo they'd undoubtedly be among the big boys again.

Likewise commiserations to Spartak Moscow, actually a very good side, certainly worthy of the Champions League and better than Celtic who knocked them out. Went to that game yesterday, they were quite unlucky; they had a goal in the first leg counted as offside but wasn't, and had a man sent off unfairly in the 2nd leg. Still, I have no complaints. Glad to see Celtic there again. As for the draw, something along the lines of:

Inter
Benfica
Celtic
Rosenborg

would be nice. Pot one is very strong, but picked an Italian team since there's always a decent chance of getting plucky 0-0 draws against them.

Well, at least Celtic got Benfica ... who'll prolly beat them 3-0 home and away just because I expressed a desire for them:

Group A
LIVERPOOL
Porto
Marseille
Besiktas

Group B
CHELSEA
Valencia
Schalke 04
Rosenborg

Group C
REAL MADRID
Werder Bremen
Lazio
Olympiakos

Group D
AC MILAN
Benfica
Celtic
Shakhtar Donetsk

Group E
BARCELONA
Lyon
Stuttgart
Rangers

Group F
MANCHESTER UNITED
Roma
Sporting Lisbon
Dynamo Kiev

Group G
INTER MILAN
PSV Eindhoven
CSKA Moscow
Fenerbahce

Group H
ARSENAL
Sevilla/AEK Athens
Steau Bucharest
Slavia Prague

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6968546.stm

For Porto: Arsenal, Marseille and Besiktas. It could have been better, but it could have been worse too. We have to take care with the cauldrons in Marseille and Istambul, but qualificatio for second round is at our reach.

The other portuguese teams: Sporting got almost as unlucky as last season and it will be very difficult for them, while Benfica got almost as lucky as last season, and despite playing crap at the moment (and having a very lucky game last night to qualify), they can battle it out with Celtic and Shakhtar (assuming Milan gets the other spot).

Werder got Olympiakos, Lazio and bloody Real Madrid. The climax of the unbelievable development of the last six years.
And this means that in all four consecutive appearances in the Champions League (quite an achievement for a little club anyway) we got the Spanish champions. 2004 Valencia, the last two years Barca and now Real Madrid.
The other two teams are tough opponents, it's yet again a very strong group but Madrid are favourites.

As for the other groups:

H looks like a walkthrough for Arsenal and the very likely competitor Sevilla. It also looks like the easiest group. Followed probably by group G.

F should see Manchester through with the other three fighting for the second spot.

Stuttgart got an extremely tough group in E.

D should see Milan through.

B is a tough nut for Schalke and impossible for Rosenborg.

A is the most level group of all, without an extremely strong team or a rather weak team.

Rangers' group is a toughy for them. I'd be surprised if they pick up more than 4 or 5 points. Group E might be decided by who can get those victories at Ibrox and who can only draws or get beaten. Who knows, though, they might surprise me. Group A and E look the funnest. Arsenal now have the honour of being the first team to qualify to round 16, as their group almost guarantees them passage. Celtic's group I can't predict. Both Benfica and Shakhtar are good, but on roughly the same plain as Celtic ... so should be tight. If Benfica are better than they were last year, they should be favourites, but we'll see. Shakhtar taught Celtic a footballing lesson last time they met in Ukraine, so I wouldn't be surprised if they finished 2nd rather than Benfica. Just unpredictable group.

BTW, anyone want to start one of those predictions threads?

Same usual suspects as other years, apart for Bayern.

Here's my prediction:

Liverpool, OM (a tad better than Porto IMO)
Chelsea, Valencia, quite easily
Lazio, Real, but it'll probably be close between Real and Werder, Real sucks.
Milan, Shakhtar (The surprise team this year, watch out)
Barça, Lyon, Stuttgart close behind, the toughest group.
Inter, PSVE, as always
Sevilla, Arsenal, easily

browser error.

Lazio, Real, but it'll probably be close between Real and Werder, Real sucks.

You expect Lazio to win the group? Why that?

I'll only reply to this after the Summer transfer window goes by. Because if Porto sells Quaresma today either to Real Madrid or Chelsea as is being rumoured by the press, I won't follow club football this season! :thumbsdown:

I'll only reply to this after the Summer transfer window goes by. Because if Porto sells Quaresma today either to Real Madrid or Chelsea as is being rumoured by the press, I won't follow club football this season! :thumbsdown:

Who would you try to get as a (probably hard to find) substitute?

Er... the transfer season ends tonight. So no one. :p We'd have to do with what's already at home, Tarik Sektioui and Lisandro Lopez. Unless said clubs would throw someone alongside a huge some of money. But I don't think we're getting Malouda or Robben. ;)

Er... the transfer season ends tonight. So no one. :p We'd have to do with what's already at home, Tarik Sektioui and Lisandro Lopez. Unless said clubs would throw someone alongside a huge some of money. But I don't think we're getting Malouda or Robben. ;)
Well, you aren't forced to sell him. Any sensible club management would only do so if they already have a replacement at hand, which could be signed the same day under this circumstances.

However, I surely hope they won't sell him to Real Madrid, that would lower our chances a bit.

Yeah, but don't forget the will of the player. It is usually very powerful in medium-quality leagues like our own when big league big wages clubs come waving by. Club directors usually succumb rather easily to big euros too...

Yeah, but don't forget the will of the player. It is usually very powerful in medium-quality leagues like our own when big league big wages clubs come waving by. Club directors usually succumb rather easily to big euros too...

It is a tough question. I can understand it if his contract runs out and they wouldn't get anything at the end of the season. But if not, then the pressure is on the player, too.

Originally posted by Hitro
A is the most level group of all, without an extremely strong team or a rather weak team.
I think Liverpool have shown over the last few seasons what they can do in the Champions League. They have bought some good players this summer, and I think that they will progress through this group.

I'd much rather sit on the fence than voice an actual opinion, but.. i'm not so sure Scratcher. This season it looks like lpool will really be going for the premiership. They've done well in the CL previously but haven't had the same degree of expectation/pressure to perform consistently in the league. This in combo with their added expectation now in the CL will make them the team to beat? Maybe they'll get overconfident?

Gainy, I never made claims that they would win the CL. But a team who has reached two of the last three finals, winning it once, and has improved the strength and depth of their squad would hardly fit the description of not being a strong team.

Porto got really lucky with their group, however Benfica and Sporting have difficult groups.

very tough draw for the German teams, with Bremen having good chances in their group though.

Hope Schalke and Stuttgart at least make it into the UEFA-cup and win some rounds there, as we've just fallen behind Romania in the 5-year ranking.

I don't think that there is an easy group out there.

I just want inter to get past quarter finals :cry:

Inter did finally win a league title last season. :)

But without Juventus and with Milan having an initial handicap, somehow, at least for a neutral, it doesn't quite feel like the same thing... That said though, with the amount of points and victories they amassed last season, they'd have won any league.

I imagine it counts more than winning the league after the other teams get disqualified like the season before that. :)

Yeah, especially as that other title was only handed because the italian FA was unsure that Italy would still get to send 4 teams to the CL if they declared a "not awarded" for the season in question. ;)

oh, dear. the french must really hate us by now. first we beat their national side, now their club champions get humped 3-0 at home by Rangers. again, i don't think anyone here expected such a result.

Amazing indeed.

oh, dear. the french must really hate us by now. first we beat their national side, now their club champions get humped 3-0 at home by Rangers. again, i don't think anyone here expected such a result.
I thought it was a misprint in my morning newspaper :eek:

i don't believe it!!! now celtic are winning 1-0 v ac milan!

Final score, 2-1 to Celtic. Celtic deserved to win for sure; it wasn't one of those Milan, Milan, Milan, lucky Celtic goals, affairs. Milan were lucky to get their penalty, and hardly ever came close to scoring from open play the whole match.

Dida should be ashamed of himself for his behaviour! He pretended to be injured just after the Celtic winner when a celebrating fan ran on to the pitch, giving Dida a light slap on the face. When you see the video of it you'll see that Dida was faking. I think he was trying to get the referee to call the game off or something. I just hope UEFA don't do anything bad to Celtic because of it; Celtic are weak in UEFA circles, and Milan are powerful, so you never know what might happen. I'm just gonna hold my breath on that one.

The Shakhtar Donetsk result is really bad for Celtic, because Celtic would be hoping Benfica and Donetsk would cut each other's throats with two draws, and Benfica will be desperate in the following two games versus Celtic, so those games might be tougher for Celtic. Celtic will have to hope Milan can do a double against Shaktar, and that Celtic can get 4 points against Benfica.

Oh yeah, commiserations to Besiktas!

Regarding Rangers, they prolly deserved to win; Lyons were surprisingly naive, but I think Rangers had only 3 shots on target the whole match, and all three went in. Lyon hit the woodwork three times. The score looks embarrassing for Lyons, but the game really wasn't that bad for them as 3-0 suggests.

both dida and the idiot fan should be shot. well, maybe not dida...

both dida and the idiot fan should be shot. well, maybe not dida...

It would have been funny if Dida had caught that fan (he chased him before he decided to be injured); Dida was like twice the size of the fan.

BTW, I sat on the front seats of that very goal at Parkhead during the Spartak game ... there was only a wall going up to about knee height, and it's too close to the pitch for the fat stewards to catch you if you decide to run on to the pitch; also, when there is a goal, the stewards who are on the pitch crowd up in some weird manoeuvre, meaning that they stop watching parts of the crowd. Something like that was destined to happen. I think though that the fan was just having fun, but he's put his club in a vulnerable position. I hope they punish Dida for his simulation and gross dishonesty; also, hope Celtic get nothing more than a light fine if they get anything. But like I said, Milan are powerful in the circles of power at UEFA, and Celtic are weak; so you just never know what will happen.

Dida should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srjvL1OxOpA

:D

Terrible showing by Liverpool. I was happy to see Marseille get the win they earned even though the last 6 minutes were harrowing.

Dida should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srjvL1OxOpA

:D

That's awesome. Thanks for the link.

Without excusing the fan, what Dida did is so cinycal and typical of a widespread bad and pathetic habit, I wish something was done to punish this kind of behavior. Besides, nobody gets fooled. I really hope Milan doesn't earn any points from that.

Another massive result for Shaktar by the way, the surprise team this year, as I announced earlier in this thread.

I got it really wrong with Lyon though, I didn't think they were capable of such poor displays. They've only got themselves to blame, though, allowing their best players to leave every year, ignoring obvious dressing room problems, and investing in building a new stadium rather than in the team is not the best policy, unless your manager is called Wenger. But Perrin isn't exactly that.

That Snickers ad is excellent.

I think they should give Dida a yellow for diving

Chelsea's BACK

I cant believe it.Porto won.I cant believe it.

We didnt deserve the lost.:(

I cant believe it.Porto won.I cant believe it.

We didnt deserve the lost.:(

We won, we won! :P

:lol:

You got lucky.

Looking forward for Liverpool now:rolleyes: :sad:

oh, dear. the french must really hate us by now. first we beat their national side, now their club champions get humped 3-0 at home by Rangers. again, i don't think anyone here expected such a result.Though I confess that despite a weak French attack, Scotland was lucky to win, I think it's still hard to deny that Lyon was totally inconsistent in their game against the Rangers. It's been a long time I haven't seen such a poor OL squad. Lyon's passing game was clumsy and slow, and the defence was a huge desappointment.

On the other side, I've been very pleasantly surprized by Marseille. I agree that Liverpool wasn't in its best shape, but Marseille players put a nice pressure on the ball and were even nice to watch. This being said, I haven't yet understood how Liverpool could miss that shot at the very last minute. :eek:

Just watched the Celtic - Dida clip on youtube. Dida really ought to be sanctioned in some way, because that is quite clearly an attempt at simulation. Celtic should of course be punished for letting a fan onto the field, but I'd think anything more than a fine would be ridiculous and quite inappropriate.

It's impossible for us (the French) to dislike to Scottish, well done. I just wish I had been in Scotland for the party... But not for the hangover.
Just remind Ferguson to be a bit less agressive in his anti-French rants.

As for our football, Lyon was shite, and it's time for a new club to win the league. Unfortunately, though, it'll take many years for our league (like for our government) to make the best of the crop want to come to France.

I
Just remind Ferguson to be a bit less aggressive in his anti-French rants.

Barry Ferguson? Alex Ferguson? What did Ferguson say?

I think it's worth a mention that while Rangers may not have deserved 0 - 3, Juninho is a (disgraceful dive) and any team he plays in with that state of mind seems destined for failure.

Barry Ferguson.
Shortly before the game against France he complained about French arrogance and explained how he felt players of the French national team looked down on him.

I'll be the first to admit Domenech is an arrogant . .. .. .. . and I despise him for his comments. But I doubt Thuram, Makelele, Ribéry, Henry and co are any more arrogant than Ferguson himself. It's probably a consequence of a bad experience with Le Guen.

No big deal anyway, just a surprisingl comment from the usually impecably respectful Scots.

As for the dives, I don't know what can be done to change that annoying habit. Maybe football players should be obliged to play rugby once a year. Then they may not stay on the floor that long.

nana dionysos that wasn't a commentary on football in general. I did have one beer so my judgement may have been impaired, that said from my perspective:
Near the end of the 1st half -when Juninho realised his team was getting nowhere- he made a run towards the Rangers penalty area and was judged to have been fouled by David Weir -who protested. Weir was yellow carded and the resulting freekick hit the crossbar. On the replay it looked like no contact whatsoever had been made, infact Weir's leg didn't even obstruct Juninho's run.
I think Juninho dived in the most malicious manner possible. He's a .

I agree with you Gainy, but my point is this kind of thing happens week in week out everywhere, although a bit less in the UK. Juninho's just part of the problem, like hundreds of other players. He's not a bad lad though.

Barry Ferguson.
Shortly before the game against France he complained about French arrogance and explained how he felt players of the French national team looked down on him.

I'll be the first to admit Domenech is an arrogant . .. .. .. . and I despise him for his comments. But I doubt Thuram, Makelele, Ribéry, Henry and co are any more arrogant than Ferguson himself. It's probably a consequence of a bad experience with Le Guen.

No big deal anyway, just a surprisingl comment from the usually impecably respectful Scots.


Well, I think that such a comment if made reveals more about Ferguson's insecurity than his malice. In fairness to him, David Trezeguet is quoted as saying "If Scotland qualify, it's serious because, frankly, they don't resemble a football team", which is an uncalled for and unprofessional thing to say.

Just watched the Celtic - Dida clip on youtube. Dida really ought to be sanctioned in some way, because that is quite clearly an attempt at simulation. Celtic should of course be punished for letting a fan onto the field, but I'd think anything more than a fine would be ridiculous and quite inappropriate.

Dida is up on charges.


AC Milan & Dida face Uefa inquiry

Uefa has opened disciplinary proceedings against AC Milan and their Brazilian goalkeeper Dida after the Champions League game at Celtic.

Dida collapsed dramatically after a fan appeared to strike him near the end of Milan's 2-1 defeat on Wednesday.

The 34-year-old was stretchered off but has been criticised for overreacting.

Uefa has already opened proceedings against Scottish champions Celtic and both cases will be heard by the control and disciplinary body on Thursday.

The incident occured after Scott McDonald had slammed in Celtic's winner late on after Dida had failed to hold a Gary Caldwell shot.

The fan, who has since been identified and banned by Celtic for life, ran onto the pitch and made contact with Dida, who proceeded to briefly give chase before collapsing to the ground.

He was eventually substituted in injury time, with Australian Zeljko Kalac coming on in his place.

A statement on the Uefa website said it had opened an investigation on the basis of article five, paragraph one of the disciplinary regulations, which state:

*
Member associations, clubs, as well as their players, officials and members, shall conduct themselves according to the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship.

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/7034017.stm)

I assume that this is under "integrity" re faining injury to mislead the ref and/ or authorities.

Still cannt work out what he was hoping to achieve. Perhaps he thought the match could be suspended or something.

Well, I think that such a comment if made reveals more about Ferguson's insecurity than his malice. In fairness to him, David Trezeguet is quoted as saying "If Scotland qualify, it's serious because, frankly, they don't resemble a football team", which is an uncalled for and unprofessional thing to say.
Yeah, quite stupid from Trezeguet. Although it-s probably aimed at Domenech rather than Scotland, as he doesn't get much 1st team football with France recently

In regards to what we do resemble, I'm not really that fussed (both a Scotland and Rangers fan), as long as we win / qualify. And Trezeguet haven't really endeered himself to the Scotland support as whole after this 'incident' he pulled in a friendly a while back,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1895000/images/_1899875_trezeguetcaldwell300.jpg

In regards to Dida, I can think of a few works which rhyme with Dida to describe him. He turned to chase him, realised it's very difficult to catch a Glaswegian in full flight and fell on his arse. Disgraceful behaviour and totally unbecomming of someone of his stature and should have known better and truthfully I hope they throw the book at him more than they do Celtic (which just isn't going to happen to be honest, given the choice of rapping the knuckles of Milan or Celtic, Celtic just doesn't have a chance)


But I'm happy overall, all Scottish teams are doing well (even Aberdeen in the UEFA cup), so here's hoping we can continue forward, and, in combination with our national team, raise the status of the game in Scotland somewhat.

I will always be grateful to what Trezeguet brought to France in the past (and before everything the victory in 2000), but today we must admit he doesn't bring anything to the team. I think that the game against Scotland was his last one with the blue jersey.

Trezeguet could always afford to stay in the penalty area and wait for a pass near the net for the simple reason that he was always scoring once in such position. Today, this is unfortunately not true anymore. He continues to not participate to the game, but when he gets the ball in the penalty area, he doesn't do anything with it anymore. France simply cannot afford to play at 10 during the whole game.

By the way, what we also realized with the game against Scotland is that the French attack is worth nothing without Thierry Henry. Henry became the fundamental player of the French squad.

Dida suspended 2 matches (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/soccer/10/11/bc.soc.uefa.didasuspend.ap/index.html).

^ i read this in the paper this morning. it's amazing, celtic were bricking themselves over their potential punishment. i'm sure milan must have expected something like this for dida. their outrage must be affected by the slap to celtic.

He should have been banned for more than 2 games.

Well, at least it's something.

Celtic got off very lightly. Forget about Dida's actions for a moment, and consider a £25,000 fine, half of which is suspended for two years. As a fine for a football club, that's just a joke. I'm not suggesting they should have lost points or replay the game, but I think that's an awfully gentle slap on the wrist. (Of course, it may well be proportionate with other FIFA fines)

Dida ? Well, at first glance it certainly looks on the harsh side. On the other hand, it's difficult to interpret his fall as anything other than a deliberate attempt to con FIFA and get the game's result reversed, and FIFA really has to treat that sort of thing pretty harshly. If you compare what he was consciously trying to do with, say, a dangerous tackle and subsequent sending off, there's a case for saying that he was treated too lightly.

I'd just like to give my two cents here.

Now, I'm a Rangers fan but before we go thinking I'm anti-Celtic please be assured that's not the case. I would like nothing better than to see both Scottish teams in the Champions League knock out stages (an Old-Firm semi final would be.....outstanding)

Anyway, my point is thus. Celtic got off INCREDIBLY lightly. and put simply, they got off because of Dida. If he hadn't overacted in so obvious a way then Celtic would have been hammered. His actions allowed everyone to concentrate on that and as a result Celtic got a good deal (also, the fact that the 'invader' is getting prosecuted under breach of the peace rather than assult probably helps too)

I looked again at the Inter Milan incident. Some sparks from a flare hit him on the back of the shoulder, and he fell down holding his face. Sure, Inter deserved everything they got for that, but the point is that Dida has learned that simulation can lead to a change in the outcome of a football match. If you take bribes to change the outcome of a match, you can go to prison. Dida is very lucky he lives in a world that is currently so tolerant of that kind of thing. I think he should be banned for a year at the very least, irrespective of what happens to Celtic; but obviously that'd be unfair given such a ban far exceeds the punishment people have learned to expect. Nevertheless, he was attempting to change the outcome of a match by cheating; 2 games is very lenient; though I guess if worse punishments were expected, he prolly wouldn't have done it. 2 games is nothing, and given the mistakes he tends to make, will prolly benefit Milan by overriding their management's stubborn loyalty.

PS, on the Celtic punishment: yes, Celtic will prolly be pleased as incidents such as the Inter flare and that fan from that fabulous Denmark versus Sweden game last year offered much worse precedents. However, for one fan celebrating on the pitch (only Dida's simulation made it seem like more), it's hardly such a lenient punishment; and keep in mind, the worst part of the punishment is not the fine itself, but the fact that any minor incident in the next few years could land them in serious hot water, esp. with Milan complaining as they are.

Anyway, my point is thus. Celtic got off INCREDIBLY lightly. and put simply, they got off because of Dida. If he hadn't overacted in so obvious a way then Celtic would have been hammered. His actions allowed everyone to concentrate on that and as a result Celtic got a good deal (also, the fact that the 'invader' is getting prosecuted under breach of the peace rather than assult probably helps too)

What is the standard fine when a fan runs onto the pitch?

I've seen plenty of pitch invasions, streakers, etc. but never heard of a team having to pay for poor security. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention?

Well, the thing is that, argueably, this fan wasn't just entering the pitch or streaking, but also looking for physical contact with a player. You could argue that he was trying to attack the opponent. Makes it worse.

But people entering the pitch has, as far as I know, always led to at least a fine.

Well, the thing is that, argueably, this fan wasn't just entering the pitch or streaking, but also looking for physical contact with a player. You could argue that he was trying to attack the opponent. Makes it worse.

But people entering the pitch has, as far as I know, always led to at least a fine.

Well, wasn't Celtic fined for poor security, in this case?

You can't really control what a pitch invader does once he actually manages it onto the pitch.. so would it really be fair to charge a club more if the pitch invader, say, punches a player out? Shouldn't it be the pitch invader having to pay the price, instead?

Celtic's stewards were all kind of busy trying to hold back the crowd up at the corner flag after Scott McDonald ran up there, which was INCREDIBLY stupid of him, he could have caused a crush.

Wow. Arsenal 7-0 Slavia Prague. I would love to have seen that.

Watched the Rangers Barcelona game. Very very one sided. Rangers had a brief period of dominance in the 70s where they nearly scored twice, and after that Barcelona seemed to be playing for a draw. I don't think Celtic would have tolerated being dominated like that at home, but I think if Rangers had played any other way they'd have gotten beaten by 2 or 3 goals. Congrats to them again.

Bad result for them in Stuttgart, but on the other hand they're now effectively guaranteed UEFA Cup 3rd Round ... which ironically would prolly be better for Scottish football as more coefficient points are likely to be accumulated there than in two games against Arsenal or Real Madrid in the CL 2nd Round.

A nice nailbiting 0-0 draw. I'm not even a Rangers fan and I was nervous watching the last 15 minutes.

i think rangers just need to beat stuttgart at home to 99.99% seal it. surely barca will beat lyon?

heh well needless to say I AM a Rangers fan I was INCREDIBLY nervous. ALthough I think we went out deciding to play like Scotland have done against teams like Italy and France, let them come to us and try to steal anything which comes our way. After Walter Smith came to back to manage Rangers he built the team on a solid defence so we had to use that and we did, very pleased with the result cause lets be honest, we could have gotten chewed up something rotten. Unfortunately I don't think we'll able to do at Nou Camp......

Looks like this might become a disastrous season for German clubs in the Champions League. I really hope Werder manages to win tomorrow, even though i'm not a fan. Stuttgart are a joke and i don't see Schalke rising to see off Chelsea.
In other news, well done to Rangers! They got a little lucky, i think, especially with the debateable handball-block in the first half, but showed some solid defending, nonetheless.

Well, it's obvious Stuttgart was disappointing but in my opinion, the young duet between Benzema and Ben Arfa has proven again tonight to be really promising for the future. I think both could potentially become real world class players, though it's too soon to tell yet.

The Arsenal game was VERY onesided ;) Man U game was decent.

I skimmed through the Barca Rangers game and the Inter game...

Made Fabregas the captain of my fantasy team - that was nice ;)

Well, it's obvious Stuttgart was disappointing but in my opinion, the young duet between Benzema and Ben Arfa has proven again tonight to be really promising for the future. I think both could potentially become real world class players, though it's too soon to tell yet.


Rumour has it that Arsenal want them both for a hefty sum of £40m, but I can't see Arsenal having that type of money to throw around.

Arsenal has got plenty of money available
But they have too many young promising players up front already,
and Lyon is not going to let them go for another 2 or 3 years at least as they ve paid a high price already to let Malouda, Abidal and Thiago go.

True, and I can understand they have the money but letting £40 mill go all at once might cause problems later on if there's an injury crisis.

But I digress, Arsenal really did walk all over Prague, I'm thinking even they didn't believe they could do so well.

Benfica v Celtic tonight - hopefully Celtic can get a good reasult and progress tro the next round.

heh well needless to say I AM a Rangers fan I was INCREDIBLY nervous. ALthough I think we went out deciding to play like Scotland have done against teams like Italy and France, let them come to us and try to steal anything which comes our way. After Walter Smith came to back to manage Rangers he built the team on a solid defence so we had to use that and we did, very pleased with the result cause lets be honest, we could have gotten chewed up something rotten. Unfortunately I don't think we'll able to do at Nou Camp......

let's face it. rangers have *nothing* to lose by going out for fun in barcelona. they could go all out for a shock win, but so what if they get beat?

Arsenal are the most profitable Premiership club ATM IIRC

Although I think they are the only top English club to reveal their profitability recently and it seemed a bit unrealistic.

Rumour has it that Arsenal want them both for a hefty sum of £40m, but I can't see Arsenal having that type of money to throw around.
Arsenal's coach, Arsène Wenger, regularly comments France's matches on TV, so he gets to see both youngsters in action from a nice place. ;) But there are already a few, young Arsenal players in our national team.

Woke up this morning to see the highlights of the Chelsea - Schalke game. Did Abramovich bribe the linesmen? I mean, there were horrible decisions in their favor.

Take away that goalkeeping blunder, there should have been an equalizer and a red card for Chelsea. Haven't seen such a blantantly bad decision as that denied red card (and penalty? or free kick) recently.

I think it's time for linesmen to get their act together. Last month I went to watch Nuernberg - Leverkusen in the Bundesliga and the Leverkusen goalkeeper clearly used his hand to clear the ball outside the penalty box. It would have been a red card and a freekick. Linesman was standing 5-10m away and due to my position in the stadium, I had a direct view to it as well...Amazingly the game just moved on...

In other news, I just think Wenger does an awesome job at Arsenal. I enjoy watching the youngsters there a lot.

Woke up this morning to see the highlights of the Chelsea - Schalke game. Did Abramovich bribe the linesmen? I mean, there were horrible decisions in their favor.

Take away that goalkeeping blunder, there should have been an equalizer and a red card for Chelsea. Haven't seen such a blantantly bad decision as that denied red card (and penalty? or free kick) recently.

Yeah, that was a bizarrly clear wrong decision. Also the second Chelsea goal was offside.

I also was suprised today by an apparently new UEFA directive that says that only the referee breaks play now and the players should no longer conduct fair play on their own (with the intent to limit the exploitation of it).
So when a Werder player got down today (actually a foul, wrongly decided by the referee in the first place) Lazio continued to play. Noone in the stands got why and assumed them to be total wankers for it. Manfredini, the dude who did it, was heavily booed for the whole rest of the first half until during halftime this apparent new rule was announced.
Pretty stupid thing if you ask me.

Unlucky to Celtic, I never actually saw the game but I heard they held their own up till the end. I'd still like to see them go through though and it is possible, they just can't afford to slip up. Same goes for Liverpool.

Arsenal are an oddity but I think last year they didn't do so well because of a few injury problems and Henry too to be honest, people were always been made to make way for him if he was even slightly fit and I get the feeling it didn't help the team as a whole, but now with Henry off to Spain, Arsenal are starting to get into a very bad (for everyone else) groove and it'll be interesting to see how they do both in Europe and domestically.

Yeah, that was a bizarrly clear wrong decision. Also the second Chelsea goal was offside.

I also was suprised today by an apparently new UEFA directive that says that only the referee breaks play now and the players should no longer conduct fair play on their own (with the intent to limit the exploitation of it).
So when a Werder player got down today (actually a foul, wrongly decided by the referee in the first place) Lazio continued to play. Noone in the stands got why and assumed them to be total wankers for it. Manfredini, the dude who did it, was heavily booed for the whole rest of the first half until during halftime this apparent new rule was announced.
Pretty stupid thing if you ask me.

That rule's been around in English football for a while now, and it does seem to have reduced the amount of diving/theatrical falls somewhat. It's been good for the game; it'll grow on you, trust me. ;)

That rule's been around in English football for a while now, and it does seem to have reduced the amount of diving/theatrical falls somewhat. It's been good for the game; it'll grow on you, trust me. ;)


Yeah I like the rule as it is funny when players fake injuries and then have to sheepishly get up and carry on playing.

Yeah I like the rule as it is funny when players fake injuries and then have to sheepishly get up and carry on playing.

.. and then claim we're 'killing the game' with 'anti-football'

:rolleyes:

Linkie Linkie (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football-news/scottish-football/spl-football/rangers-fc/2007/10/25/messi-slams-rangers-and-vows-revenge-86908-20005464/)

After 2 very unlucky losses,we won!!!11!!
Yeah!
Besiktas 2-1 Liverpool:goodjob:

We got lucky;)

Wow. Arsenal 7-0 Slavia Prague. I would love to have seen that.

It made me so very happy.

Lil' Theo Walcot off the mark in style to cap a fine performance from everyone. They were all but forming a que to score.

Liverpool and Rosenborg anyone?

Valencia 0-2 Rosenborg
Liverpool 8-0 Besiktas

And there was me thinking Besiktas could sneak that one. :lol:

Celtic 1-0 Benfica! Benfica played well in the first half, the half Celtic scored, but they were just awful in the second half and I can't believe Celtic didn't win by more. Watch out for Binya's stomach-churning piece of violence on Scott Brown. Absolutely sickening. :( He does seem to have got through it unscathed though, which is very fortunate for Celtic and Scotland.

Porto 2 Marseille 1 :D

Liverpool and Rosenborg anyone?

Valencia 0-2 Rosenborg
Liverpool 8-0 Besiktas

And there was me thinking Besiktas could sneak that one. :lol:

Celtic 1-0 Benfica! Benfica played well in the first half, the half Celtic scored, but they were just awful in the second half and I can't believe Celtic didn't win by more. Watch out for Binya's stomach-churning piece of violence on Scott Brown. Absolutely sickening. :( He does seem to have got through it unscathed though, which is very fortunate for Celtic and Scotland.

I didn't see the games last night (was out watching Iced Earth, Lamb of God and Heaven and Hell, still can't hear anything) but I did see some highlights. I was shocked at the tackle on Scott Brown, that had leg breaker written all over it and I'm glad I was not on the pitch cause I'd have went up and broke his.

I guess Liverpools rotation policy works ;) although why players like Crouch aren't playing mroe often is beyond me.

Good result for Chelsea with Rosenburg and Valencia, shame they couldn't put it to bed by winning themselves.

Watching the Liverpool match and the announcer says that "they (Liverpool) grabbed them (Besiktas) by the Twizzlers." That was funny to me for some reason. :lol:

If you saw Liverpool play last night you can begin to understand my frustration when I watch them throw away points in the premiership.

Liverpool have been lacking in their goal scoring and consistancy. Hopefully now they will continue with this type of performance. However, following their 6-0 demolition of Derby on the 1st September, Liverpool have played poorly for more than 2 months. Currently they are a real Jekyll and Hyde team.

Well, from what I've seen of Liverpool this season (mostly CL games), they have a very fragile defence. I haven't seen the summary of yesterday's game but it's highly likely that Besiktas only got very few balls in the midfield.

Yesterday, I've watched Porto vs Marseille. Frankly, I couldn't say I'm desappointed by Marseille's game. Porto has great technicians, and a great capacity to accelerate the game but they are a bit weak on physical duels. I think that physically (on duels), Marseille was superior and a draw wouldn't have been undeserved. Somehow, it's rather surprizing that Marseille, which is currently ranked next to last in the French championship, could be second of its champions league group with still great chances to qualify. And actually, I don't even believe it would actually be undeserved if they would get through their group.

Generally speaking, I consider this group of poor quality compared to most others. No matter who qualify for the round of 16, I don't expect any to go far in the playoff games. Porto is probably the best team, but it's unefficiency in the ability to "attack the ball" is very detrimental to them. Marseille has shown a great physical play, but they are poor technicians and their collective play is desperately slow. Liverpool has a very weak defence, and I haven't seen yet a good collective play yet (though obviously that wasn't the case on yesterday). Finally, Besiktas is overall very average.

Marla, I do not agree that Liverpool have a "very weak defence". They have kept a very high amount of clean sheets, both this season and over the last few years.

One of the major contributing factors to Liverpool's better progress in the league and cup compititions has been their defence. In the Champions league their ability to defend against better teams and "steal" victories has been essential to their progress.

Marla, I do not agree that Liverpool have a "very weak defence". They have kept a very high amount of clean sheets, both this season and over the last few years.

One of the major contributing factors to Liverpool's better progress in the league and cup compititions has been their defence. In the Champions league their ability to defend against better teams and "steal" victories has been essential to their progress.Well, at least you can agree that it's not really the face they've shown during their 3 first games in Champions league. I've seen huge holes in Liverpool defence too many times then to consider their defence as solid.

Liverpools defence has let them down, but certainly no more than our attack has let us down.

Liverpool might end up regretting the complete crushing they gave Besiktas (and their confidence) because they need them to grab a point in at least one of their remaining matches. Even if Liverpool wins out they might be left out.

The problem with Liverpool is the rotation policy. Crouch should be starting every game.

Barcelona v. Rangers tonight. Looking forward to it, shame though it's not on TV. Messi accussed Rangers of playing "anti-football" at Ibrox, just like the French coach and several French players made similar statements about Scotland. What do they seriously expect?! I'm sure Barcelona would (as France would have loved Scotland to) play three forwards and go all out attack, but they might as well ask them to kick the ball in their own net. :lol:

Anyways, the following should be noted:

1960-1 UEFA Cup QF, Barcelona 4-4 Hibernian
1960-1 UEFA Cup QF, Hibernian 3-2 Barcelona
1964-5 UEFA Cup R2: Barcelona 3 v 1 Celtic
1964-5, UEFA Cupt R2, Celtic 0-0 Barcelona
1966-7 UEFA Cup 2R, Barcelona 1-2 Dundee Utd
1966-7 UEFA Cup 2R, Dundee Utd 2-0 Barcelona
1986-7 UEFA Cup QF, Dundee Utd 1-0 Barcelona
1986-7 UEFA Cup QF, Barcelona 1-2 Dundee Utd
2003-4 UEFA Cup 4R, Celtic 1-0 Barcelona
2003-4 UEFA Cup 4R, Barcelona 0-0 Celtic
2004-5 Champions League, Celtic 1-3 Barcelona
2004-5 Champions League, Barcelona 1-1 Celtic
2006-7 Champions League, Rangers 0-0 Barcelona

This means, played 13, won 6, drawn 5, lost 2, meaning prolly that Scottish sides have a better record against Barcelona than any other European country! :D Plus, other than Celtic, no Scottish side has lost in Barcelona, and Celtic only once. You can look at this three ways. 1) Scottish teams are what we call "bogey teams" for Barcelona, and Rangers might get a result. 2) The record is ridiculously unblanced and will be redressed as soon as enough games come around, starting with tonight. or 3) such records mean nothing, and Barcelona will win comfortably because - frankly - Barcelona play in a different universe from Rangers. I tend to go with 3), but although I was right about how Rangers would play in this Champions League, I was wrong in believing they wouldn't pull of many good results. So maybe I'll be wrong about tonight (we'll see soon enough). Rangers have absolutely nothing to lose tonight. No-one in Spain or Europe will blink an eyelid if Barcelona win 5-0, so all the pressure is on them.

The other thing with Barcelona is I always feel weaker sides have more chance of getting results playing teams like Barcelona away at the latter's home grounds, mainly because these weaker sides aren't compromised by an home obligation to attack but the home team is. Rangers have a chance if they don't concede early. The biggest downside about using the tactics Scotland, Rangers and other Scottish teams use in Europe now is that if you concede early you're basically screwed. Anyways, if that does happen, Rangers should do their best to preserve their good goal difference, rather than become suicidal. These are my thoughts anyways.

Lol ... 1-0 to Barcelona after 6 mins.

it's whenever we get optimistic... Rangers are going to crash and burn :D

Lol ... 1-0 to Barcelona after 6 mins.

Off a handball too.

Off a handball too.Granted, but we cannot blame the referee for having not seen it on real time. And as football purists would consider video to be an infamy, then the logical conclusion is that Henry's goal was fair. :p

Anyhow, for those having not seen the game, the handball wasn't voluntary which of course doesn't make the goal more valid at all. I just say so to prevent a new wave of Henry bashing. He didn't try to trick anyone on this and it's not comparable to Maradona's hand of God.

Granted, but we cannot blame the referee for having not seen it on real time. And as football purists would consider video to be an infamy, then the logical conclusion is that Henry's goal was fair. :p

Barcalona definately deserved the win, they dominated the whole game. Fortunately it wasn't the only goal, or there would've been controversy.

Anyhow, for those having not see the game, the handball wasn't voluntary which of course doesn't make the goal more valid at all. I just say so to prevent a new wave of Henry bashing. He didn't try to trick anyone on this and it's not comparable to Maradona's hand of God. Furthermore, not a single Scottish player had actualy seen the handball.

Actually, there was 1 or 2 Rangers players appealing for handball who were on the goal line, but as there was no reasonable way the ref could've seen it, and there was another goal to confirm the result, I don't really have a problem with it since any footballer would've claimed a goal in the same situation.

Actually, there was 1 or 2 Rangers players appealing for handball who were on the goal line, but as there was no reasonable way the ref could've seen it, and there was another goal to confirm the result, I don't really have a problem with it since any footballer would've claimed a goal in the same situation.


Yet another potential case for the use of video ref.

but anyway, yeah I didn't see the game (was out watching Joan Jett, Motorhead and Alice Cooper heh) but from what I heard Rangers were prettymuch on the back foot all night, as is exected. but we can still qualify, just need to pull the socks up.

Liverpool 8-0 Besiktas

And there was me thinking Besiktas could sneak that one. :lol:


Shocking result for me.Before the match I told everyone the score will be 4/5-0,but 8 is too much.But after a little bit thinking,I found the result normal.Besiktas has too many problems at our national league and I can realize,why the players haven't concentrated on this match.

Anyway I congratulate all Liverpool fans.:)

Some biggies tonight. It is said on the grapevine that Stuttgart are coming back to their old form. Frigg ... I hope that's not true. Stuttgart should do the decent thing and wait until the Barcelona game to come back to form. If Rangers win tonight, they may very well go through. Standing against Rangers is that they are no longer underdogs ... and I feel that they do better as the latter. At any rate, it would prolly be better for Scotland's co-efficient for them to go into the UEFA cup, so I'm not that bothered.

I do very much hope though that Celtic can beat Shakhtar tomorrow. Everyone says Shakhtar tore Celtic apart in the first game. I must be blind, because I saw the first game; they scored two goals in the first ten mins and then it was relatively even. Anyways, remembering that Celtic's last game is in Milan, if Celtic don't do it tomorrow they may experience the humiliation of bottom place, behind that rather ordinary Benfica team. Ouch! On the other hand, Celtic have twice won all their home games in the Champions League, and on their two other campaigns got no more than one draw (Munich) or one loss (Barcelona). So history is on their side.

I do hope Rangers win tonight (I'm a Ger) but it's gonna be tight, like our fellow Wegie team in Europe and even the national team, we tend to have a hard time away from home (Lyon being a fluke, we caught them when they were still getting their feet)

I think Celtic will beat Shatkar tonight, as Calgacus said, their home form is pretty solid and they don't have any huge injury worries (apart from Boruc but I think he's fine now).

Mo'an the Scots!!!

Isn't Nakamura gonna be missing?

Just some stats about Rangers and Stuttgart. Rangers have lost only twice in their last 18 games in the competition, defeats coming to Barcelona in Barcelona and Inter in Milan; the former defeat against Barcelona ended a 13 game undefeated run (including 4 qualifying matches). Stuttgart have not won a match in the competition since they beat Rangers several years ago. That was the last home game in which Stuttgart scored, and the last CL game they didn't lose.

Usually when people start remembering such records, it goes against the records. I hope for Rangers fans that that's not what happens 2nite. ;)

Too bad, Rangers lost tonight to Stuttgart, while Lyon managed to do 2-2 against Barcelona. This means Lyon needs a victory in Glasgow in 2 weeks, can they do it ? :D

Cris Ronaldo doing it again to his old team in extra minutes...

Not a bad match tough, Go Sporting :P its my team, Im always with the loosers lol

Sporting is a great team, they have an excellent eye for young talent + exciting players.

well rangers were unlucky. Good goalkeeping kept us in it and he wasn't at fault for any of the goals in my opinion.

Lyon need to win, a draw would see them out because rangers beat them previous.

Was suprised Arsenal lost, they were doing so well in Europe. Wenger threw a wobbler as well apparently.

Sporting is a great team, they have an excellent eye for young talent + exciting players.

which ultimately leads to Man U coming in and taking them away ;)

but yeah, I have heard some amazing things about Sporting and their youth teams.

which ultimately leads to Man U coming in and taking them away ;)



Ah but this is a recent development. I don't think ManU ever even had a Portuguese player before C.Ronaldo. Anyway it's fine with me, ManU is one of the biggest clubs/stages in the world to play on. So they finally "got it" and added some Latin flair.... it makes them more exciting. I used to despise them just like Real, but now I find myself somewhat cheering them on :cool:

Besiktas JK 2-1 Olym. Marseille

At least we won our second game.Our group is more interesting now.By the way Marseille is not a football team,they are just a bunch of butchers.In two matches they injured 5 players.Just unbelievable...
I found those Frenchs bold,as they never were..

Benfica - Milan 1-1

I'm not exactly a Werder fan, but hats off to them for beating Real 3:2. What a game! Now please don't screw up in the last match...

Liverpool 4 - 1 Porto.

A very good win. I didn't expect such a big scoreline.

Ah but this is a recent development. I don't think ManU ever even had a Portuguese player before C.Ronaldo. Anyway it's fine with me, ManU is one of the biggest clubs/stages in the world to play on. So they finally "got it" and added some Latin flair.... it makes them more exciting. I used to despise them just like Real, but now I find myself somewhat cheering them on :cool:

Heh I suppose if you get 10-15 mill per player and a seemly large pool to draw from, I think it's good business on your part ;)

Rangers lost unfortuantely, but we held on. Just unlucky. Need a draw against Lyon to qualify. Here's hoping......

Celtic won despite going behind early. I believe, they need a draw as well to qualify, if they lose, Shatkar need to win.

Scotland teams in good form at the moment, never thought I'd see the day :p we're in control of our destiny, so here's hoping we don't bottle it

Liverpool 4 - 1 Porto.

A very good win. I didn't expect such a big scoreline.

A humiliation for Porto, especially that handball in the box.

Liverpool 4 - 1 Porto.

A very good win. I didn't expect such a big scoreline.

Yeah, especially Liverpool's performance for most of the game was very mediocre.

I hope they win their last game to advance, though.

I hope we will beat Porto:)

I hope we will beat Porto

I do too! But for entirely different reason, i want Liverpool to be top of the group! :D

Looks like we collapsed in the final 10/15 minutes...
This group is wide open: every team can still finish in any position, from 1st to 4th, but we're in pole position to win the group, so that's not so bad.

Even more than 24 hours after the match I am still thrilled. Our more or less reserve team did really beat Real Madrid. :eek:

I have never seen such ridicoulus group before..

Liverpool draw,Besiktas wins. LEADERSSS!!!:)

Utopic...:p

Celtic are through, despite losing 1-0 in Milan. Grateful thanks are due to an impressive 2-1 away win by Benfica in Ukraine, which gives them the UEFA Cup spot in Group D.

Even though Celtic pushed Milan close in last season's knock-out stages, I can't imagine anyone will be worried if they draw them in the last 16 this time.

Congrats to Celtic but yet again the away form almost costs them, if Shatkar (sp?) didn't conceed one early it could have been a different evening...

Good result for Liverpool. I did mean to watch the game, but only switched the TV on at half-time, watched the first 5 minutes of the second half, and then switched off my TV and did something more interesting.

Based on that 5 minutes, Marseilles were defending like schoolchildren.

Well done to Schalke as well - I think they were a bit hard done by in their games with Chelsea, and probably a lot more deserving qualifiers than Rosenborg.

4-0 Liverpool, oh we do like our comebacks! :lol: APart from the reading match, we have played some of the best football i have ever seen from a Liverpool side in recent matches

Rangers Lyon tonight

*whimper*

I have never seen such ridicoulus group before..

Liverpool draw,Besiktas wins. LEADERSSS!!!:)

Utopic...:p

We beat you 2-0. :p

P.S. Your keeper is a moron. :p

We beat you 2-0. :p

P.S. Your keeper is a moron. :p

Congratulations!:)
We had 7-8 injured players and 4 of them are defenders;) Whatever...
We played cowardly and deserved the loss.
And our keeper,ex-barcelona goalkeeper saved many times,but his mistake has ruined the game for us:cry:

Next year then:)

Rangers Lyon tonight

*whimper*Lyon has won 0-3 at Glasgow tonight. Now that was a great game ! :p

One assist, two goals. If people had still doubts about Benzema's potential... Be affraid guys... France has an insane attack for this euro. ;)

3-0 to Lyons, and Calgacus would have won some money if he'd put a bet on!!! :( I knew if Lyons scored first it would end up like that. As it was in Lyon, the home side didn't deserve to lose let alone lose 3-0, but that's what happens in football. Lyon are a side who have gotten lucky against Scottish teams in the past - robbery a few years ago against a Celtic side who were much better than them and who only went out because of a ridiculous last minute penalty; but this time Lyon actually deserved it.

Anyways, Lyon are better than Rangers and it is good for the Champions League that Lyons qualified. The league table accurately reflects the team quality. Rangers are now in the tournament where they really belong, and Lyons remain in the tournament where they belong; though congrats to Rangers for making it appear they were good enough for a while. Rangers fans won't like it, but Celtic are the only Scottish team atm who are worthy of this tournament in terms of players and club profile, and it has been that way since the end of the Advocaat era.

Rangers are a team whose strength is a defensive sitting in game, and they didn't try to play up to that tonight. They should have played for a draw and sat in. No, it wouldn't have been fun, and we'd have heard all that "anti-football" stuff again, but Rangers would prolly have gotten through. Rangers showed their ineffective attacking (rather than counter-attacking) football in Stuttgart when they lost to a team they could have been 3-0 or 4-0 up against in the first half. Any team that loses to that Stuttgart team (how did they ever become German champions?!?!) doesn't deserve to go to the last 16.

And BTW Walter Smith has shown his tactical naivety yet again. One of the most overrated mangers in European football. Going all out attack against a team whose main strength is counter-attacking?!?! Rangers had broken the Champions League record for longest undefeated run (mostly draws, and mostly under Alex McLeish), Walter Smith comes in a blimps it. No Scottish manager has lost more European games than Walter Smith, despite all the money he spent in his first era ... so such naivety wasn't really a surprise. Mr Smith had players like Laudrup, Gascoigne, McCoist, and others and consistently messed up his champions league campaigns against teams such as Grasshoppers Zurich, Steaua Bucharest and the might of Levski Sofia. What's more, the guy's a turncoat who abandoned Scotland as soon as a few results earned by his players encouraged Rangers to poach him. I hope the Scottish media will be a little more skeptical of Mr Smith now, and maybe Mr Murray will realise what a mediocrity he is, though it'll prolly take a few years of bad results to rub it home.

Lyon has won 0-3 at Glasgow tonight. Now that was a great game ! :p

One assist, two goals. If people had still doubts about Benzema's potential... Be affraid guys... France has an insane attack for this euro. ;)

Benzema almost cost Lyon the game though if Darcheville didn't miss on the counter.

Benzema almost cost Lyon the game though if Darcheville didn't miss on the counter.Yeah right... in shooting twice on target to the goal, he must be blamed of the Rangers counter-attack... It makes perfect sense. :hammer2:

Yeah right... in shooting twice on target to the goal, he must be blamed of the Rangers counter-attack... It makes perfect sense. :hammer2:

Come on, if he's as good as you are talking him up to be, he should've scored there. :p Not that Lyon didn't deserve to win, they were the better team on the day.

Come on, if he's as good as you are talking him up to be, he should've scored there. :p Not that Lyon didn't deserve to win, they were the better team on the day.Karim Benzema did exactly what he had to do. I'm serious. He created alone an opportunity to shoot, and once he realized he was alone in front of the keeper he has not panicked, he took the time to eliminate the keeper and make sure to shoot on target. No one has seen, or even imagined, that a defender could come back and save the ball on the line.

The guy made an assist on the first goal, he scored twice afterwards, he got multiple shots on target. Benzema has an amazing ability to create huge opportunities when we don't expect them.

I watched the Marseille game (not crypted channel), and it was awful. The UEFA Cup is where they belong. And I bet they won't keep some of their best players (Nasri, Niang, Valbuena, Mananda) for long.

I couldn't watch the Lyon game (crypted channel), and this is just unfair. :mad: I listened to the end of the match on the radio, and it was stressful, especially Benzema and Darcheville's close, lost opportunities. I can only echo Marla's comment that Benzema will become huge in the months/years to come. He's not even 20. If he doesn't burn his wings too young... BTW, Coupet and Cris will be back in February to give Lyon a chance to reach the 1/4. :)

Oh no ...Barcelona. :'(

EDIT: Draw

CELTIC v Barcelona
Lyon v Manchester
Shalke 04 v Porto
Liverpool v Inter Milan
Roma v Real Madrid
Arsenal v AC Milan
Olympiacos v Chelsea
Fenerbahce v Seville

Oh that's gonna burn some.

Some good draws. Celtic Barcelona will be interesting but if we can take a draw at home, Celtic shouldn't have too much trouble. Expect to get pumped at Nou Camp though. But you's should be ok.

Oh good, we can beat the other Milan.....possibly? :cry:

Are you talking about Inter or Milan? Which generally the way most people separate the two Milan teams.

c_h, Joe is a Liverpool fan, so he's referring to the fact that Liverpool lost to AC Milan last year, but are drawn against Inter this time.

Some rather tasty draws there - Arsenal vs Milan is a stand-out for me. Overall, it really reinforces that, for this time at least, it was pretty useful to come top of your group.

It was bit of a smart alec remark of mine. :D

nice matches here. :D
How I hope Arsenal will kick out Milan, I really enjoy watching the youngsters this year. Well, with Dida as a goal keeper, there should be a good chance to score some. :mischief:

Arsenal was the killer team none of the top seeds wanted to face. Hopefully AC Milan will get knocked out very quickly.

Looks like Chelsea got the easiest pick.

How does the next round work? Who plays who? Is there a draw for that as well? I forget...

^^ Theres a draw for the next round as well, anyone can play anyone, except possible teams from their own groups and countries again, but i am not sure.

CH,
Yes i meant Inter! :)

At the quarter final stage you can face anyone.

So, the Celtic-Barcelona game was a little disappointing result-wise, but Barcelona are a wonderful bunch of players to watch. Seriously, they were awesome, and sadly for Celtic they took the game very seriously and all ten of their working players worked themselves into the ground. Initially at least though Barcelona had a lot of play, they weren't really doing anything. They went 1-0 down, got a quick goal back, and then went down again. Their heads went down, Celtic nearly made it 3-1 and you had the feeling Celtic might get a comfortable 3 or 4-1 home victory to give them a chance in the second leg (seriously, Barcelona looked so vulnerable at the back). But Caldwell made a mistake outside the box, Henry scored a wonderful goal to make it 2-2 and it was like Barcelona had a new fire of life.

They were amazing. Seriously, the same Barcelona defender passed three consecutive 60-yard balls through loads of Celtic players right onto the chest of Messi in a ten minute spell. Ronaldinho was subbed bringing Barcelona up to 11 players, and they were all over Celtic. It was so frustrating cause you could see from above that Barcelona were only playing with two defenders and weren't gonna cover their full-backs in defensive positions when those guys got back. You knew if Celtic got the ball and kept it they'd get in there, but they could hardly get and keep the ball. Barcelona had something like 700 completed passes in the game compared with like 150-200 for Celtic.

Celtic have no chance now of going through, and Celtic's long run of undefeated home matches in Europe has come to an end. :( Still, they've only lost 2 of their last 32 home matches in Europe, both to Barcelona (1-3, 2-3). And did you know, this season Barcelona had conceded no headed goals until Wednesday, when they conceded two to Celtic? So there's some goodness to take away.

And just to say, Liverpool are really, really lucky. Two late goals saved them from failing to secure an advantage against a team they played for 60 mins with ten-men. It's a shame the referee ruined that game with his stupid decision, as I kinda fancied Inter this year to go all the way. Hard luck!

Yeah, Liverpool made a mountain out of a mole-hill (mine you we have been doing that alot recently), but at least we won, by 2 clear goals, so we should go though now, i hope, i wouldn't put it past them to lose 5-0 next time, the way Liverpool are playing at the moment!

Update.

Quarter final draw

Liverpool - Arsenal

Chelsea - Fenerbahce

Man U - Roma

Barcelona - Schalke 04

The winner of the Liverpool/Arsenal game face Chelsea/Fenerbahce

The winner of the ManU/ Roma game face Barcelona/Schalke.

I feel quite confident now, we beat Arsenal and will (most likely) face Chelsea, who we always beat in the semifinals of cup competitions and then beat Man U/Barcelona/Roma/Schalke for that trophy!

I hope Roma makes up for last time they were playing Man U... :eek:

Update.

Quarter final draw

Liverpool - Arsenal

Chelsea - Fenerbahce

Man U - Roma

Barcelona - Schalke 04

The winner of the Liverpool/Arsenal game face Chelsea/Fenerbahce

The winner of the ManU/ Roma game face Barcelona/Schalke.

I feel quite confident now, we beat Arsenal and will (most likely) face Chelsea, who we always beat in the semifinals of cup competitions and then beat Man U/Barcelona/Roma/Schalke for that trophy!

It seems that is all over for Schalke. I would be really surprised if the manage to beat Barcelona.
Liverpool - Arsenal seems too close to call for me, Man U might have a slight edge against Roma, and Chelsea should have no problems dispatching Fenerbahce. Then again, everything is possible in Football...

I hope Roma makes up for last time they were playing Man U... :eek:

Not that hard: even a 4-0 loss would be an improvement :lol:

I hope Roma makes up for last time they were playing Man U... :eek:

When they drew 1-1 :confused:

they lost 7-1 in the quarter finals at Old Trafford last year

they lost 7-1 in the quarter finals at Old Trafford last year

Yeah i did realise. People are focusing on that game rather than others, such as when they beat us 2-1 at their place and the narrow win United got this year. Sure the draw could have been harder but this point in the competition there are no easy fixtures just easier ones.

If Materazzi hadn't been sent off, the match in England would've been very different. We wouldn't have lost 2-0 for sure. This of course had an impact on the second match which Inter played vary well up until Burdisso got sent off. And even when they were down to 10 men in Milan, they were still playing good. Torres scored in the only clear opportunity they had (of course thats what great players do, they only need one chance to hurt you) while Cruz and Ibrahimovic didn't. Also Liverpool faced Inter during a bad period of the season. They're not playing good at all as you can see from their latest results in the league (Roma has shortened the distance from 11 points to 6 in a few weeks).

Also Liverpool faced Inter during a bad period of the season. They're not playing good at all as you can see from their latest results in the league (Roma has shortened the distance from 11 points to 6 in a few weeks).

We lost to barnsley the weekend before the first leg! :)

If Materazzi hadn't been sent off, the match in England would've been very different. We wouldn't have lost 2-0 for sure. This of course had an impact on the second match which Inter played vary well up until Burdisso got sent off. And even when they were down to 10 men in Milan, they were still playing good. Torres scored in the only clear opportunity they had (of course thats what great players do, they only need one chance to hurt you) while Cruz and Ibrahimovic didn't. Also Liverpool faced Inter during a bad period of the season. They're not playing good at all as you can see from their latest results in the league (Roma has shortened the distance from 11 points to 6 in a few weeks).

inter got destroyed for 180 minutes of cattenaccio. that's just i'd say.

Well the quarters are up in the air. I'd say that Man Utd is the only team with more than a 75% chance of qualifying.

Chelsea just couldnt put the ball in the back of the net whilst liverpool did what needed to be done against an arsenal side trying to walk it into the net!

Yes Chelsea lost!!!! :D, oh wait hang on, if we get to the semifinal, and chelsea pull it off then traditionally we beat them in the semifinal so actually i would rather have chelsea (it will also be much sweeter when we beat them!). Also ionically but not really susprising, i believe that the only englishmen to score last night played for the Fenerbahce.

Personally I don't quite fancy Italian or Spanish teams (except for Barca), but I think for the sake of a EUROPEAN competition, it would be terrible to see 3 English teams in the semis.
Some things have to be changed to make this an all European competition again. Cut the maximum number of teams per nation down to 2.

I agree that it isn't the champions league anymore and more the top 4 league, i may be wrong but i think if an English club wins it this year its the top 5 places in the premiership become champs league spots.

I don't however think it is bad for the competition, obviously the English teams this season are simply the better teams in it, similar to a few years ago when there was the Italian dominance.

but i think if an English club wins it this year its the top 5 places in the premiership become champs league spots

The max amount of teams from one country is four currently, but UEFA have wanted it to go down to three but that got shot down.

Personally I don't quite fancy Italian or Spanish teams (except for Barca), but I think for the sake of a EUROPEAN competition, it would be terrible to see 3 English teams in the semis.

The Spanish and Italians should play better football then.

The max amount of teams from one country is four currently, but UEFA have wanted it to go down to three but that got shot down.

Ah, that was just the year Liverpool won it then. wonder where that extra place goes.

Ah, that was just the year Liverpool won it then.

We came fifth in the pemiership that year and because we won the CL, we got a pass, i think into the very first round. Don't some nations get extra places in the first round based on fair play? maybe Liverpool took one of them.

Actually fair play extra spots go to UEFA. The Liverpool thing was a one off. If it happened again, the English 4th would go to UEFA.
I think something needs to be done to rebalance the strength of European leagues. And as it is all about money, I'm in favour of a European salary cap for example. I mean wouldn't it be great to have once again Ajax, Benfica, Celtic, Red Star, Steaua be able to compete properly for European supremacy? More exciting than an all English final to me...

Actually fair play extra spots go to UEFA. The Liverpool thing was a one off. If it happened again, the English 4th would go to UEFA.
I think something needs to be done to rebalance the strength of European leagues. And as it is all about money, I'm in favour of a European salary cap for example. I mean wouldn't it be great to have once again Ajax, Benfica, Celtic, Red Star, Steaua be able to compete properly for European supremacy? More exciting than an all English final to me...

No :confused: thats punishing the English teams for being good, it obviously can't just be down to money as the rich list for clubs is not 20 english teams.

No :confused: thats punishing the English teams for being good, it obviously can't just be down to money as the rich list for clubs is not 20 english teams.

English teams may be very good, but it's not really good for English football, IMHO.

The Arsenal-Liverpool match tuesday had a grand total of two English players starting the match (Carragher and Gerrard). It surely must be of some concern to the FA that English players are becoming very rare at the top teams?

English teams may be very good, but it's not really good for English football, IMHO.

The Arsenal-Liverpool match tuesday had a grand total of two English players starting the match (Carragher and Gerrard). It surely must be of some concern to the FA that English players are becoming very rare at the top teams?

That annoys me too. Arsenal should get some English people.

I hate Drogba.Yes,I hate him.

English teams may be very good, but it's not really good for English football, IMHO.

The Arsenal-Liverpool match tuesday had a grand total of two English players starting the match (Carragher and Gerrard). It surely must be of some concern to the FA that English players are becoming very rare at the top teams?

Whilst the Roma/Man Utd Match had 6 english players playing for United and 5 Italian players playing for Italy. Roma are second in the League, presumably that should be bad for Italy yet Italy won the last world cup. Whilst 4 Englishmen played for Chelsea in Turkey.

I agree to an extent but i think the English teams failings is primarily down to the fact they don't play well not that there isn't enough competition for places.

Whilst the Roma/Man Utd Match had 6 english players playing for United and 5 Italian players playing for Italy. Roma are second in the League, presumably that should be bad for Italy yet Italy won the last world cup. Whilst 4 Englishmen played for Chelsea in Turkey.

I agree to an extent but i think the English teams failings is primarily down to the fact they don't play well not that there isn't enough competition for places.

Half the problem is how expensive English players are.

I agree to an extent but i think the English teams failings is primarily down to the fact they don't play well not that there isn't enough competition for places.

Hmm, i agree, the top four get all the money and can pay for better players than the teams lower down. It's also a problem in Scotland (although that has often been dominated by the two top teams) and other countries as well.

No :confused: thats punishing the English teams for being good, it obviously can't just be down to money as the rich list for clubs is not 20 english teams.

Well, if it's not about money, what is it about, then? The quality of English players?:rolleyes: Why do you think the best French, Spanish, Brazilian, etc... choose to play in England? The weather, the food, oh, no, it's probably for the love of the shirt...

Well, if it's not about money, what is it about, then? The quality of English players?:rolleyes: Why do you think the best French, Spanish, Brazilian, etc... choose to play in England? The weather, the food, oh, no, it's probably for the love of the shirt...

Right so Real Madrid, barca, Inter, AC Milan etc they're all strapped for cash? yet with the exception of Barca none of them are left in the competition.

Spanish sides had a few years like this, all Spanish finals, 3 in quarters, etc, you never heard anyone then raving about how great the Spanish sides were. Anyways, that annoying point aside:

1) The English league is not competitive, in fact it's now one of Europe's least competitive leagues. The gap between the top teams and the rest is astronomical. Better judge the English league by seeing how they do in the UEFA cup. They're all out! Review the performance of English sides in that competition over the last few years. Generally, quite miserable.
2) English players don't make up the core of the 4 English clubs. To put it in perspective, there were more Scottish players registered to play in this year's champions league than English players. Yes, that's right! ;) And England had four teams too, the maximum possible!
3) English clubs hardly ever win the competition, or get to the final. Compare the figures for the last 20 years between English, Spanish and Italian clubs. England is on a level with Portugal and Holland here, not Italy or Spain, though admittedly that's prolly gonna change drastically and in fact already is.
4) The fans of the top 4 English clubs aren't, like those of the two Spanish clubs, hysterical monkeys who force their club to change manager every two weeks. :p

1) The English league is not competitive, in fact it's now one of Europe's least competitive leagues. The gap between the top teams and the rest is astronomical. Better judge the English league by seeing how they do in the UEFA cup. They're all out! Review the performance of English sides in that competition over the last few years. Generally, quite miserable.

Indeed, in fact ever since we got more places in the CL our UEFA performance as gone right down, only Middlesborugh and Tottenham have reach the semi final and beyond since Liverpool won it in 2001. Our second tier teams haven't been able to fill the gaps.

English clubs hardly ever win the competition, or get to the final. Compare the figures for the last 20 years between English, Spanish and Italian clubs. England is on a level with Portugal and Holland here, not Italy or Spain, though

Partly due to the europe ban we got in the eighties, we have only recently caught up in terms of performance in the CL, we had 3/3 finals with English teams in the last three years though.


2) English players don't make up the core of the 4 English clubs. To put it in perspective, there were more Scottish players registered to play in this year's champions league than English players. Yes, that's right! And England had four teams too, the maximum possible!

Certainly true with Aresnal and to a lesser extent with Chelsea and even less than that for Liverpool and then Man U. The only team that truly have any signafincant amount of English players is Man U.

The fans of the top 4 English clubs aren't, like those of the two Spanish clubs, hysterical monkeys who force their club to change manager every two weeks.

No, we have Newcastle UTD for that! :p

BCLG100, wouldn't you like teams from Portugal, Germany, Holland, France, Greece, etc.. be able to retain their best players and challenge the likes of Man U, Milan, or Madrid?
This year, even Wigan is going to get more TV income than Lyon for example. I think something is wrong there. In fact we need new rules in Europe, not only for football, but also for business.
Salary cap would make money less important and encourage players to stay in clubs they really care about. We could also demand stadium entries to be no more than 50 euros, and games to be shown on free TV channels. Everybody would win from those measures, apart from the millionaires who get even richer with football.

To be honest i much prefer seeing the premier league week in week out the way it is now. The number of high class players playing every week is a joy to watch. Perhaps there is something wrong but it is the premier league itself rather than the premier league teams who agreed the tv rights, it's the respective countries own fault that they did not agree similar lucrative deals, perhaps if France did or Germany did they would have the huge worldwide appeal that the Premier League does now.

What if it were the other way around and you had to watch the Bundesliga to watch a decent football team? Surely many British wouldn't be so happy about Rooney, Ferdinand, Gerrard, and co playing for Bayern Munchen. They would lose interest in the Champions League if there were no English teams past the group stage.
In the same way, they won't be that interested in the next Eurocup without England...

What if it were the other way around and you had to watch the Bundesliga to watch a decent football team? Surely many British wouldn't be so happy about Rooney, Ferdinand, Gerrard, and co playing for Bayern Munchen. They would lose interest in the Champions League if there were no English teams past the group stage.
In the same way, they won't be that interested in the next Eurocup without England...

just watch premiere league. if you support your local team you dont care how asthetic the matches are anyway...

What if it were the other way around and you had to watch the Bundesliga to watch a decent football team? Surely many British wouldn't be so happy about Rooney, Ferdinand, Gerrard, and co playing for Bayern Munchen. They would lose interest in the Champions League if there were no English teams past the group stage.
In the same way, they won't be that interested in the next Eurocup without England...

Probably not so much no but with all due respect how is that my problem?

Spanish sides had a few years like this, all Spanish finals, 3 in quarters, etc, you never heard anyone then raving about how great the Spanish sides were. Anyways, that annoying point aside:

1) The English league is not competitive, in fact it's now one of Europe's least competitive leagues. The gap between the top teams and the rest is astronomical. Better judge the English league by seeing how they do in the UEFA cup. They're all out! Review the performance of English sides in that competition over the last few years. Generally, quite miserable.

Well all three teams went out at the same stage of the tournament, so it was not like they did not go out at the same stage. Also two teams went out via penalties, which shows that it was very close and the other team played a second their team since they were having troubles in the league. It was a case of so close and yet so far away, so I would not count they way they played. So in effect you could be saying that their are still six or seven English teams left in Europe. Another problem with the UEFA cup is that not the same teams keep qualifying for the tournament, so they often lack the experince of playing regular European football, which most of the other team regularly in the UEFA Cup. It looks like that only one team from this years tournament is going to be in next year, showing how tough it is just outside of the top four. So maybe you could say that is a strength of the EPL that not every year the same teams are making it into Europe each season, showing the quailty of the competition.

Well all three teams went out at the same stage of the tournament, so it was not like they did not go out at the same stage. Also two teams went out via penalties, which shows that it was very close and the other team played a second their team since they were having troubles in the league. It was a case of so close and yet so far away, so I would not count they way they played. So in effect you could be saying that their are still six or seven English teams left in Europe. Another problem with the UEFA cup is that not the same teams keep qualifying for the tournament, so they often lack the experince of playing regular European football, which most of the other team regularly in the UEFA Cup. It looks like that only one team from this years tournament is going to be in next year, showing how tough it is just outside of the top four. So maybe you could say that is a strength of the EPL that not every year the same teams are making it into Europe each season, showing the quailty of the competition.

Actually, Blackburn got knocked out by the might of Larissa in the first round. Bolton should have been out ages before they went out; they scraped through their group, played with 10 defenders in the next two games and looked like a very bad team, even though they held out against Atletico. I think with 4 representatives coming from the self-proclaimed "best league in the world", you should have consistently 2 or 3 teams in every quarter final. Review the results of English sides in this competition in the last few years, really compares very poorly with other top leagues.

Different teams every year? Not really. Blackburn, Tottenham, and Newcastle have been regulars, with Bolton and Middlesborough regular too. Compare with the Scottish premier where a different pair of teams really do qualify every year. Aberdeen had no "European experience", and got further than Blackburn, so that's not it either. I do think those teams are getting better ... particularly I think Everton, Tottenham and Aston Villa could prolly make it through the Champions League group stages if they could finish in their top 4 and get through the qual. rounds. I do think the English league is finally getting quality further down they always claimed to have but really didn't. We'll see how Portsmouth, Tottenham, Everton and the Intertoto team do next year though.

We'll see how Portsmouth, Tottenham, Everton and the Intertoto team do next year though.

doesnt rank 6 become an uefa cup rank when an english team wins the champions league?
everton is very likely to play championsleague qualification next year...

doesnt rank 6 become an uefa cup rank when an english team wins the champions league?
everton is very likely to play championsleague qualification next year...

No, that only happened when Liverpool won it in 2005 but actually finished outside the top four in the premiership so we got a bye into the first quali round. That is not going to happen this year unless Liverpool win it once again but finish fifth again

Also the teams that go into UEFA have changed quite a bit. We had Middlesborough, Everton, Tottenham, Newcastle (not for a while now), West Ham did it one year, Millwall (FA Cup), Bolton, Liverpool and Arsenal before England got four champions league spots, I even believe Fulham did it, or at least got into the intertoto cup and Blackburn. Basically quite a few teams! Out of those, maybe, only Tottenham and Everton have played in Europe consistently. (and Liverpool and Arsenal but in the CL)

No, that only happened when Liverpool won it in 2005 but actually finished outside the top four in the premiership so we got a bye into the first quali round. That is not going to happen this year unless Liverpool win it once again but finish fifth again


no no, they made the champions league winner a guaranteed starter in the group stage after that. (in 2005/6 this was fixed by letting liverpool start in the first qualification round)
i'm not sure if that means that if liverpool wins again this year the rank 2 team will have to play qualification round 3 (instead of liverpool who would have qualified for this ranking 4th) or if england would get 5 CL teams...
it would definitely be like this if everton managed to overcome liverpool in the last rounds, but let's not become ridiculous in speculations :)

no no, they made the champions league winner a guaranteed starter in the group stage after that. (in 2005/6 this was fixed by letting liverpool start in the first qualification round)

Oh yeah, completely forgot about that :blush: sorry. :) (and yes it is absolutly absurd that Everton would ever finish above Liverpool isn't it.......:scared:)

(and yes it is absolutly absurd that Everton would ever finish above Liverpool isn't it.......:scared:)

:) Not in this decade!!!

Probably not so much no but with all due respect how is that my problem?

I have indeed the weakness of sometimes believing that people care about the rest of the world...

I have indeed the weakness of sometimes believing that people care about the rest of the world...

Why? you only want to introduce these things to make your league better, so infact you care about as much for my league as i do for yours, as whilst introducing a salary cap will make yours better it'll make mine worse. The argument 'to make the national team better' i see used by quite a lot of people is done because their national league is weak.

What is my league? I've lived in 3 different European countries in the last 10 years and I long for pre Bosman times when more than 3 or 4 national leagues were interesting and produced top quality sides.

WE DID IT!!!!!!!!! :)

4-2 and Chelsea in the semi finals!

steve gerrard gerrard
he'll hit the ball 40 yards
he's big and he's f*cking hard
steve gerrard gerrard

So, Some infidel phoned me when it was 2-1. We just spoke for 2 minutes.... I retrn to the living and see it's 3-2.

Too bad the penalty was doubtful. Arsenal should still blame themselves though.

Hmm. Is the Champions League now becoming dominated by a few teams in the same way as, say, the English Premiership ?

Looking at the semi-finals of the last 4 years, we have 3 appearances each for Liverpool, Chelsea and Milan; and 2 appearances each for Manchester United and Barcelona. 5 teams have taken 13 of the 16 slots available (oh, and 8 out of 8 in the last 2 years).

I guess the only real surprise is not seeing Real Madrid and perhaps some more of the Italian teams (well, Juventus or Inter) in that list.

Liverpool - Man Utd in the CL final would be so awesome, except we most likely wouldnt win it.

Liverpool - Man Utd in the CL final would be so awesome, except we most likely wouldnt win it.

I am assuming you are a Liverpool supporter. ;)

Hmm. Is the Champions League now becoming dominated by a few teams in the same way as, say, the English Premiership ?

Looking at the semi-finals of the last 4 years, we have 3 appearances each for Liverpool, Chelsea and Milan; and 2 appearances each for Manchester United and Barcelona. 5 teams have taken 13 of the 16 slots available (oh, and 8 out of 8 in the last 2 years).

To be honest i am not susprised this has happen, although there have been times when it was only Spanish and Italian teams (plus Bayern Munich) reaching the far ends of the champions league so we have seen this before, it's only now that English teams have been getting really far consistently since the late seventies, early eighties

Liverpool really have Someone looking after them in these games. What other team has such an imbalanced proportion of ref decisions going in their favour, from the dodgy goal against Chelsea all those years ago, through the Inter sending off to the penalty decisions which took them through in the Arsenal tie?

Man Utd look the strongest of the English teams, but that isn't usually how it works out. With the final being in Moscow, something tells me this just has to be Chelsea's year. Surely it is fated, no? ;)

Liverpool - Man Utd in the CL final would be so awesome, except we most likely wouldnt win it.

we would want it more!!! (to quote american sports :) )

we would want it more!!! (to quote american sports :) )

Its the European Cup so its safe to say they all want to win it a lot.

To be honest i am not susprised this has happen, although there have been times when it was only Spanish and Italian teams (plus Bayern Munich) reaching the far ends of the champions league so we have seen this before, it's only now that English teams have been getting really far consistently since the late seventies, early eighties

Ah, I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't particularly looking at the recent dominance by English clubs, or comparing it to the previous dominance by Spanish (?) or Italian clubs. Forget the teams' nationalities for a second, and just look at it being the same teams getting through time after time.

Arguably, you can add a "second tier" onto my intial list (of Chelski, ManYoo, 'Pool , Barca and Milan) - Arsenal, Inter, PSV, Lyon and Roma are pretty consistently in the knock-out stages, and occasionally one of them make it to the last four.

Is it consistently the same teams sufficiently that a 12 or 16 team European premier league would more or less pick itself ? (Add Munich and Madrid to the ten above, for the TV revenue as much as anything else)

1st Semifinal over. Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea. That last second own goal by Riise is keeping the Blues on the fight. Liverpool deserved the win though.

Crap were in trouble now. I had my doubts about 1-0 being enough, and then my countryman has to do something like that. Sure his unlucky, and i kinda feel bad for him now. But now we have to win at Stamford Bridge. Alltough, we totally rolled over Chelsea for parts of the game, and i feel we should have easily made it 2, its still more then possible to make it trough, and lord knows Liverpool loves to make a drama.

My prediction for the return leg, Chelsea-Liverpool 1-1, Liverpool wins on penalties. I can feel it!

Crap were in trouble now.

I'm sure the ref will save you, as he always does in these games. ;)

Damn it! 93 minutes and 50 seconds we were ok and then arrrrgggghhhh! :mad:

The worst thing is not the own goal, but the fact i threw my remote, breaking it and now my tv is struck on Itv 1 :cry:

well, so looks like we're gonna win at stamford bridge now. nice, i'm looking forward to it.

I'll be surprised if Chelsea don't go through now. 1-0 would have been pretty even, and 2-0 would probably have been enough for the Reds. But I don't really see Chelsea failing to beat Liverpool at home, regardless of (or even because of) the previous failures.

I'll be surprised if Chelsea don't go through now. 1-0 would have been pretty even, and 2-0 would probably have been enough for the Reds. But I don't really see Chelsea failing to beat Liverpool at home, regardless of (or even because of) the previous failures.

pff. chelsea at home? are they gonna intimidate liverpool with plastic flags?
well, maybe gerrard gets a laugh attack that leaves him unable to play, that would be a pretty big blow...

pff. chelsea at home? are they gonna intimidate liverpool with plastic flags?
well, maybe gerrard gets a laugh attack that leaves him unable to play, that would be a pretty big blow...

Did you know that Chelsea haven't lost at the Bridge for four years?

Did you know that Chelsea haven't lost at the Bridge for four years?

They can draw and still lose though.

They can draw and still lose though.

Fo' sho'.


gf0orihggjnrp5mh35h3h

Did you know that Chelsea haven't lost at the Bridge for four years?

sure, but that's not a helpful argument if you want to make fun of chelsea.
free plastic flags are. :lol:

Did you know that Chelsea haven't lost at the Bridge for four years?

Thats rubbish, i remember Newcastle beating them their two years ago (FA Cup i think as well)

Was a pretty poor game in the end, best chance happening in the first couple of minutes but im fairly happy with the result, allthough barca had all the ball they didn't do much with it and im fairly confident for the return leg at old trafford.

I actually thought Barca was better after Henry entered and Messi left. Henry tried taking Van der Sar by surprise, giving up the little-rewarding effort to breach the very tight MU defence. How many occasion did the Blaugrana lose because they tried to further interpass when swarmed by defenders, I wonder.

Good job to Man United at proving our expectations wrong. Worst game of the Champions league and made yesterdays match look exciting.

I predict United and Chelsea advancing to the final while they both play at home.

Congrats to Manchester! Disliked Evra's blatant cheating towards the end (if pretending you are hurt to break up the flow of the play is cheating), but they deserved to win I think.

I'm guessing, unless the referee helps Liverpool again tomorrow (and when did they ever do anything in this competition without the referee helping them?), it will now be a Manchester Chelsea final, which is good, as a Scottish team will go straight into next season's group stage. ;)

congrats to Man U fans. Thought Barça played better on both legs though. And Messi has been much better than Ronaldo. The compulsive diver still has a lot to prove in the biggest games IMHO.

Congrats to Manchester! Disliked Evra's blatant cheating towards the end (if pretending you are hurt to break up the flow of the play is cheating), but they deserved to win I think.

He got kicked in the face - and might have a broken jaw. If he can fake that , he's pretty good.

Manchester was much better organized than Barça. Granted during the 2nd HT, Barça owned the ball but just like last week at the Camp Nou, they never felt really threatening because Man U defence was tight. I supported Barça, but I can't say that Man U's success is undeserved.

The thing which worries me more is that Barça's future doesn't seem that bright. The guy on French TV told 7 of the Barça key players should leave the club next year. What I fear is that all football investments are currently concentrating in England, and if it continues this way, there won't be any other significant league in Europe, which would be sad. There were 4 English clubs in CL, and none of them has been eliminated by a non-English club. This proves how English premiership outclasses any other league currently.

As a matter of fact, such an evolution is predictable since the Bosman ruling. Indeed, we Europeanized the transfer rules without Europeanizing the championship. As a result, the leagues with the economically strongest teams of course attract the best players, but also have the best profit potential for new investors as they are the most watched.

Since the Bosman ruling, each national leagues are falling one after the other. The first leagues to have suffered of this were the smaller Eastern European leagues, then the smaller Western leagues such as Belgian, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish leagues. Other smaller leagues resisted but finally got down too. Even the Portuguese and Dutch leagues which have resisted a long time thanks to their History, are now decreasing. As for the big 5 leagues, the French league was the weakest and thus the first to fall, then it was the German Bundesliga, then the Italian serie A, and now the Spanish liga. The only one remaining today is the English premiership, because it is the one that all little Koreans or Singaporians want to watch.

I personally find it's silly that all the best players are attracted by the same league, but on the other side, it's a rather natural evolution and I can't blame them. However, this is still sad for supporters because England isn't the only country peopled by football fans.

I see only two ways to counter such an evolution : either we make a Euroleague (a solution that if well-thought isn't that silly), or we put an end to the Bosman ruling. The only third solution would be the English premiership to become in itself, the Euroleague.

He got kicked in the face - and might have a broken jaw. If he can fake that , he's pretty good.

Yeah, I think I'll wait to see if he's got that. I doubt it somehow. Did you see it happen? Watch it again. ;) Takes a while for him to "realise" he's hurt.

Maybe I'm just cynical. But players on the winning side in European ties have a remarkable tendency to get hurt in the last few minutes while their chasing opponents are in full flow. Statistically astonishing if you start keeping records. :lol:

Yeah, I think I'll wait to see if he's got that. I doubt it somehow. Did you see it happen? Watch it again. ;) Takes a while for him to "realise" he's hurt.

Maybe I'm just cynical. But players on the winning side in European ties have a remarkable tendency to get hurt in the last few minutes while their chasing opponents are in full flow. Statistically astonishing if you start keeping records. :lol:

One of the biggest games of his life im sure he is gonna do everything he can to stop the ball going in the back of the net, when he realised the current crisis was averted then he went back down.

Manchester was much better organized than Barça. Granted during the 2nd HT, Barça owned the ball but just like last week at the Camp Nou, they never felt really threatening because Man U defence was tight. I supported Barça, but I can't say that Man U's success is undeserved.

The thing which worries me more is that Barça's future doesn't seem that bright. The guy on French TV told 7 of the Barça key players should leave the club next year. What I fear is that all football investments are currently concentrating in England, and if it continues this way, there won't be any other significant league in Europe, which would be sad. There were 4 English clubs in CL, and none of them has been eliminated by a non-English club. This proves how English premiership outclasses any other league currently.

As a matter of fact, such an evolution is predictable since the Bosman ruling. Indeed, we Europeanized the transfer rules without Europeanizing the championship. As a result, the leagues with the economically strongest teams of course attract the best players, but also have the best profit potential for new investors as they are the most watched.

Since the Bosman ruling, each national leagues are falling one after the other. The first leagues to have suffered of this were the smaller Eastern European leagues, then the smaller Western leagues such as Belgian, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish leagues. Other smaller leagues resisted but finally got down too. Even the Portuguese and Dutch leagues which have resisted a long time thanks to their History, are now decreasing. As for the big 5 leagues, the French league was the weakest and thus the first to fall, then it was the German Bundesliga, then the Italian serie A, and now the Spanish liga. The only one remaining today is the English premiership, because it is the one that all little Koreans or Singaporians want to watch.

I personally find it's silly that all the best players are attracted by the same league, but on the other side, it's a rather natural evolution and I can't blame them. However, this is still sad for supporters because England isn't the only country peopled by football fans.

I see only two ways to counter such an evolution : either we make a Euroleague (a solution that if well-thought isn't that silly), or we put an end to the Bosman ruling. The only third solution would be the English premiership to become in itself, the Euroleague.

The Premiership's strength is quite conspicuously clear. Money, and more specifically, TV money. France and Italy are larger than England, and although the latter isn't as financially strong, its player base is superior and it and the Spanish league have better access in the Latin American player market. Spanish teams, team for team, are still technically superior to English teams ... and if you don't believe me on that, this is what the guys on the English station Radio Five admitted among themselves last week.

What I truly do not understand why the German league is so financially backward. The country has 80 million compared with 50 million, and a far superior economy. Yet the German league is considerably inferior to the Spanish, Italian and English leagues.

What'd be great is if there was EU wide tv-channels and EU-wide contracts for all top national leagues, a buy em all or none contract. Dreamland. Second best is ... yes ... reintroduce the 3-foreigners rule. This would be great for most European leagues, including most importantly, the Scottish league. ;) Celtic and Rangers, and other big-fish in small ponds like FC Copenhagen, Ajax, the Istanbul and Athens side, have support bases superior to most premiership clubs, but have TV incomes equivalent to or smaller than Championship clubs.

The money in the Russian and Ukrainian leagues is growing , and will change European football. Zenit for instance being owned by Gazprom, which in 20 years will have an income larger than Belgium's GDP. Then again, it'll hardly be any better if European football becomes a playground for Russian billionaires. But if the Russian league becomes so strong, and if the French, Spanish, and Italian leagues get better tv contracts, there'll be no problem. It's not so bad yet ... at least 12 non-English clubs are still prolly good enough to stand a good chance of finishing in the Premiership's top four. The trend is though, I agree, clear. Hopefully the authorities will wake up. :)

The Premiership's strength is quite conspicuously clear. Money, and more specifically, TV money. France and Italy are larger than England, and although the latter isn't as financially strong, its player base is superior and it and the Spanish league have better access in the Latin American player market. Spanish teams, team for team, are still technically superior to English teams ... and if you don't believe me on that, this is what the guys on the English station Radio Five admitted among themselves last week.

What I truly do not understand why the German league is so financially backward. The country has 80 million compared with 50 million, and a far superior economy. Yet the German league is considerably inferior to the Spanish, Italian and English leagues.

What'd be great is if there was EU wide tv-channels and EU-wide contracts for all top national leagues, a buy em all or none contract. Dreamland. Second best is ... yes ... reintroduce the 3-foreigners rule. This would be great for most European leagues, including most importantly, the Scottish league. ;) Celtic and Rangers, and other big-fish in small ponds like FC Copenhagen, Ajax, the Istanbul and Athens side, have support bases superior to most premiership clubs, but have TV incomes equivalent to or smaller than Championship clubs.

The money in the Russian and Ukrainian leagues is growing , and will change European football. Zenit for instance being owned by Gazprom, which in 20 years will have an income larger than Belgium's GDP. Then again, it'll hardly be any better if European football becomes a playground for Russian billionaires. But if the Russian league becomes so strong, and if the French, Spanish, and Italian leagues get better tv contracts, there'll be no problem. It's not so bad yet ... at least 12 non-English clubs are still prolly good enough to stand a good chance of finishing in the Premiership's top four. The trend is though, I agree, clear. Hopefully the authorities will wake up. :)Indeed, as you've told, the key to success is TV broadcasting. What made the English premiership that succesful is that it succeeded to grab all the attention of Asian footie fans. Even in the early 2000's when Spanish clubs were at their best, the liga has never been as seen in Asia as was the premiership.

That's also the reason why I have doubts about Ukraine or Russian league abilities to attract the best players. Other countries such as Qatar, the Emirates or the US tried to attract players by money, but they can't beat the funding of clubs which makes huge money from being broadcasted all over the world. It's true though that Ukraine and Russian leagues have the big advantage to participate to the Champions league, but I still have doubt it could really work so easily.

About the Bundesliga, I believe it suffered from the same issue as the French ligue 1, the lack of competition between several top-notch teams. The Bayern Munich dominated the German championship during a long time, which made lose its interest to a large part of the crowd.

I don't know well the German example, but I know better the French one and it's very interesting. It was a long time ago, but in the early 90's, French clubs were reaching Champions Cup semi-finals every year. Those were predominantly Marseille and PSG, but also FC Nantes or Girondins de Bordeaux.

The thing is that at this time, the owners of Marseille and PSG made an agreement to share their best players. They considered that the French championship needed competition and that's why neither of both wanted to outclass too much the other. Furthermore, they considered the French championship needed a rivalry to revive its interests, and they've actually orchestrated it between both clubs.

This system started to choke once Marseille has been relegated because Tapie had bought games in the French championship. PSG took advantage of the situation at the beginning, but made various bad choices giving the opportunity to other clubs, and specifically Lyon, to take the lead. The problem of Lyon is that its president, Aullas, has chosen a totally different strategy. Lyon's strategy was indeed to buy the best players of other French clubs, but to only sell its players to foreign clubs. As a result, Lyon worked like a pump, attracting the best players of the French championship, but also making them leave the French championship. With years, the French championship lost in interest because the winner was known even before the season started, and in the same time, the selling policy made talents slowly leave the championship.

That situation is sad and not natural. Indeed, the French clubs suffered from the fact they had to pay much more taxes than other European clubs, but this doesn't explain everything. The country has simply never succeeded to take advantage of the huge benefits of hosting an economical powerhouse such as Paris. The PSG has been awfully managed and the failure of Matra in the 80's discouraged investors to fund a second Parisian club. The thing is that there are 11 million people living in Paris and the potential to feel at least the Parc de Princes (50,000 seats) and the Stade de France (80,000 seats) every week, but that potential has never been fully used. The Paris region has a GDP similar to the Netherlands, meaning there is actually the money to fund great clubs, but investing in a Parisian club always looked as uncertain.

I'm quite sure that if the Matra Racing had survived and that a rivalry had emerged between the Matra Racing and the PSG, this would have kept both clubs up which, as a side effect, would have raised up the level of the French championship and thus of other French clubs such as Marseille or Lyon. Anyway, I'm talking about a wet dream here. Matra doesn't exist anymore, PSG is in ligue 2, and the only decent club remaining in the French championship, Lyon, is slowly becoming the shadow of itself.

Bayern's dominance might make it harder to market the league abroad, but it doesn't seem to have a big effect on its popularity in the country. Football's popularity has actually increased in the new millennium.

Some possible explanations for the Bundesliga's financial weakness i can think off:

- Entrance fees are lower than, for instance, England.
- Pay TV is extremely unpopular in Germany, so TV stations have less money to offer for the TV rights.
- The league hasn't really attempted to market itself abroad yet.
- German clubs might be less willing/able to go into debt than, for instance, their counterparts in Spain and Italy.
- There are no foreign investors/tycoons. Clubs owners that could afford to splash the cash like Volkswagen (Vfl Wolfsburg) and Bayer (Bayer 05) don't do so.

Odd to consider the dirth of clubs in Paris compared to number of clubs in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_London). PSG as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, Charlton, Wesh Ham, Palace, QPR, Orient, Millwall, Barnet, Brentford and Daganham. Thirteen in the league propper and another 26 in the wilderness below that.

As good as a domestic quota might be there are several problems. First EU laws on restriction of trade, so quotas would probably have to be about products of the academy rather than nationality. This would have the effect of making every kiddie vastly expensive just prior to their sixteenth birthday - and then all but limiting them to playing for that club for the rest of their lives. Dont we just know the rich clubs would sign huge numbers of kids to hedge their bets and most of those kids would be fated to not make it, and to be deemed imports for every other club.

Second the Prem is just too powerful. These guys already split from the Football League so they would have to share less of the TV revinue with the lower league clubs - there is just no way they are going to share that money across the EU. It goes against their raison d'etre. When the Prem split from the league they proved they were more powerful than the FA. If a crisis was forced by UEFA then G14 would use the Prem example to demonstrate that it is more powerful than UEFA. Essentially if G14 walks away from the Champs League and set up their own tornament they would make if anything more money.

What if European leagues were forbidden to sell their TV rights to pay TV. Wouldn't all football fans benefit from that?

Odd to consider the dirth of clubs in Paris compared to number of clubs in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_London). PSG as against Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, Charlton, Wesh Ham, Palace, QPR, Orient, Millwall, Barnet, Brentford and Daganham.Well your comparison is valid though for the sake of accuracy Paris is also represented by Créteil, Paris FC and Sannois-St Gratien in the equivalent of English division 2. It doesn't change much overall but where the difference is the most obvious is between French ligue 1 and English premiership.

Good discussion going on here :goodjob:

Maybe it is time for some more drastic measures, but they would never be accepted. I mean the Champions League is supposed to be a European competition and no just another mirror of the English Premier League.

Here in Singapore, I only get to watch the EPL. It's pretty exciting stuff and the games are really at a high level. However, if I watch the CL, I want to see other teams competing. It's a real anticlimax to see 3/4 teams being English with an all English final. Super boring if you ask me. Just like an all Spanish or all Italian final. I remember many years back the UEFA cup had 5 German teams that made it to the quarter final. I was a kid then and very excited about that. When an all German semi final was reality, suddenly all excitement vanished. It was like watching Bundesliga, not UEFA cup.

So, that nonsense to have 4 teams per nation compete in a Champions league has to stop. back to the roots with 1 team each. I know that will never happen due to all the money that is involved. But it would excite me more.

It's already sad enough that the WC/EC have lost their flair as players are just too exhausted at the end of each season due to too many games.

Here in Canada I pay $15 a month to watch ALL of the EPL games. This station also shows some Scottish, Italian, German, and French games, but not many. They also show some Champions league, international games, FA Cup, etc.. But it's mainly EPL.

There are a couple free Italian, German, French, and sometimes Spanish and Dutch games on other stations.

There isn't even an option to pay for other leagues. You can only pay to get Prem. games. There is 1 free game each week.. The rest.. like I said.. $15 a month.

Whoever was in charge of marketing for the Premier league in the 90s is a genius.

When looking at this dominance of English teams, I think we should also look back at how it used to be years ago. Real Madrid won 5 times in a row in the 50ies ('56 - '60), won it again in '66 and was 2 times runner up in the years between. (And Barcelona was runner up once in that period too). '63 - '65 gave 3 Italian victories, '70 - '73 gave 4 Dutch victories in a row, followed by 3 Bayern Munchen victories, followed by 7 (!) English victories.

In comparison, we've had 4 Spanish, 2 English, 2 Italian, 1 German and 1 Portugese victory in the last 10 years. (Add another English victory this year).

In my opinion, today's competition looks more competitive.

What if European leagues were forbidden to sell their TV rights to pay TV. Wouldn't all football fans benefit from that?

Quite probably, but the formation of the Prem shows what would happen. The rich clubs didnt like the TV deal so they walked. G14 are the draw and they are organised - if they are pushed around they will just set up their own gig.

It's already sad enough that the WC/EC have lost their flair as players are just too exhausted at the end of each season due to too many games.

I don't think the WC has lost anything (admittely the last one turn out pretty much as predicted but the 2002 WC was a hoot! :)), but i have never like the EC (no prizes for guessing why! :mischief:), it just lacks the excitement of the world cup and actually some of the football is very defensive, can't blame the teams, they are all very close in terms of performance, but given a choice, if i would watch the African nations cup or the EC then i would choose the african nations cup every time.

Also by comparsion in Britain it would cost £26 pounds from sky, with other packages other than tv (ie phone and broadband) or ~£36 pounds as a tv only package :mad:

It isn't going well :(

1-0 Chelsea

With 15 minutes and two goals down, it'd take a miracle to save Liverpool.

well... walk on...

we'll be back next year!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDDQPxe_do

well... walk on...

we'll be back next year!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PDDQPxe_do

If this video would be in better quality you perhaps could see me. I was there in the 10th or so row.

I actually was happy with a Chelsea win but only because we germans need a strong Ballack at the EC.

Quite probably, but the formation of the Prem shows what would happen. The rich clubs didnt like the TV deal so they walked. G14 are the draw and they are organised - if they are pushed around they will just set up their own gig.

That's why we need new rules at European level, and a sport exception to other business regulations, as a football club's aim IMO shouldn't be about making money. If we have to accept anything big clubs (and corporations) want, what do we have (or haven't) governments for?

If this video would be in better quality you perhaps could see me. I was there in the 10th or so row.

I actually was happy with a Chelsea win but only because we germans need a strong Ballack at the EC.

ts, he had his big day against manchester on saturday anyway...

and please dont hurt us too bad in the EC. :scared: