Inspired by this:

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070831/75959612.html

I wonder whether or not this would make a nice addition to BTS as a wonder (much like the Apollo Program)?

Of course, I have absolutely no idea what advantages it would give you (faster trip to Alpha Centauri? additional resources? allows you to build a Moon Base or Martian Base as a city improvement for additional resources?)

I also think it is a logical addition to the game.

Back when Civ2 was around, I made a mod that was a major re-working of the modern era. Have a little science background, one important addition was the Mars Mission because successfully making that mission requires new techniques (technologies in game terms) of self-contained and long-term living environments. Surprisingly, we have yet to successfully do that even in today's modern era. Such a self-contained ecology environment technology is important because there is just no way to store food for a two year round trip to mars.

I also replaced stasis chambers which are still in the realm of science fiction (as is interstellar travel, I know :)) with a Self contained ecology module to more "realistically" model astronaut survival for the many year trip. I felt like the changes fit Civ's non-futuristic approach to the game better than stasis chamber and made the transition to "viable" interstellar travel to Alpha Centauri a little more believable.

Project

Mars Colony
+2:gp: (great Scientest)
+5:culture:

Effects: 2 free scientests.

It'll work like a modern great library. This helps in the race by giving you a tech lead.

Quite frankly, a Mars Colony should be the Replacement of the Alpha Centauri program

There's honestly no way to do this without a million angry people.

You can establish a colony on Mars before going to the Moon? Imagine the Wonder movie- The ship is heading to the Moon. Closer, closer, closer.... It misses and heads to Mars.

Project
Mars Colony
+2:gp: (great Scientest)
+5:culture:
Effects: 2 free scientests.
It'll work like a modern great library. This helps in the race by giving you a tech lead.

I think that is reasonable. In the vein of my previous post, another addition that would make a lot of sense would be:

Allows construction of SS Life Support (along with other currently required techs)

Quite frankly, a Mars Colony should be the Replacement of the Alpha Centauri program

Wow, I had not thought of that. It is a fantastic idea. The only problem is that unhappiness in the our world's cities would go up :) because the game has always had the goal of colonizing Alpha Centauri, and everybody expects it to be so.

In the spirit of your idea, I actually have thought on a number of occasions that they should add a Future Age to justify the interstellar travel and other technologies required for the trip to Alpha Centauri. I would love that personally, but I am pretty sure that I am just dreaming, because it seems that the designers have staunchly avoided moving into the future era much beyond Fusion and human genetics technologies.

There's honestly no way to do this without a million angry people.

You can establish a colony on Mars before going to the Moon? Imagine the Wonder movie- The ship is heading to the Moon. Closer, closer, closer.... It misses and heads to Mars.

That's where the space elevator goes. "Press floor 3965758 for the Moon, if you wish to got to Mars, please go on a spaceship.

Quite frankly, a Mars Colony should be the Replacement of the Alpha Centauri program

That is an EXCELLENT idea!

Project

Mars Colony
+2:gp: (great Scientest)
+5:culture:

Effects: 2 free scientests.

It'll work like a modern great library. This helps in the race by giving you a tech lead.

I like this as well... and I have no problems about someone being able to build a Mars Colony separate of the Apollo Program/Moon Colony. After all, it's not as if going to the Moon would be a necessary prerequisite.

I agree with Lightwave on this one. The Civilization series has been going for long enough that you've got to take tradition into account, especially on aspects of the game that are frankly cosmetic and have no real impact on gameplay.

Me, I'd prefer a mode where you can send a ship to Mars and actually colonise it yourself. Somewhat like colonising Alpha Centauri in Test of Time (new map, able to switch back and forth, etc.) only with advanced Mars specific technologies and units.

I think after building Apollo Program there should be a chance for an Event
something like this

First Man on the Moon

Reward Options:
1) +1 :) in every City
2) Pay :gold: - Fund space center - Building +2 :gp: (Great Scientist) +100% spaceship build in city (Building appears in random city)
3) With Mass Media - Free Golden age

^ of course the Event prevents you from building spaceship parts for 30 turns

What about going to Mars BEFORE going to Alpha Centauri?

In my opinion getting to the Moon and Mars should BOTH be benchmarks on your path to Alpha Centauri. As should building and lauching the first manned satellite. All those wonders should be built before any lauch of a spaceship.

The modern era really does need a lot of work. Sadly that was what BTS was supposed to address . . . but while it is an excellent expansion, it is a FLOP (again in my opinion) at expanding the modern age.

Yes I like the "Next War" stuff in a rifts kind of way. It's simply silly fun. But it's also extra. I require:

Better space programs
Telephones and telegraphs
Hot Air Baloons & Zepplins
Earlier planes
More early gunpowder units
A better religion system for things like the 30 Years War
More in depth corporations (east India company? Guilds?)
A lot more depth to colonies
An Espionage system where I can bribe/infiltrate units
Inquisitor units in the main game if you please
A meaningful difference between ROADS :move: , RAILROADS (:move: :hammers:?) , and HIGHWAYS (:move: :gold:?)
Let me start out as a colony of another power and fight for independence
More "universal" civic options for the UN!
Some MAJOR changes to GLOBAL WARMING. I want to be able to effect this, and NOT start with it in advanced starts!


After that maybe the fluff would be nice. But it's irritating to see mechs when we still don't have a decent modern era.

Who cares whether you go to Alpha Centurai or Mars? I mean, tradition dictates the game in this case, so AC will obviously be the goal in the game, but what difference would it make if you made it Mars? It wouldn't affect gameplay at all. If it makes you feel better to think you're colonizing Mars, then just pretend that your ship is headed to Mars and not AC.

Who cares whether you go to Alpha Centurai or Mars? I mean, tradition dictates the game in this case, so AC will obviously be the goal in the game, but what difference would it make if you made it Mars? It wouldn't affect gameplay at all. If it makes you feel better to think you're colonizing Mars, then just pretend that your ship is headed to Mars and not AC.

I definitely agree with the tradition statement here. I would feel a little "let down" that I am "only" colonizing Mars after so many years of colonizing Alpha Centauri, but I think the reason some have liked the idea of the Mars colony is that, without a reasonable set of future techs, it aids the "immersion" and "suspension of disbelief." Absolutely, it is just window dressing, but these types of factors are not to be completely discarded. How many times have we seen a movie and said something to the effect of, "He can't really do that...." It forces us out of our nice little bubble back into the real world for a moment.

I am not so much for a Mars colony as I am for a "reworked" modern (and future?) era where the transition to the winning condition is more "believable." That said, it's one of the best games out there and a lot of fun. I am not losing sleep over it.

Stop taking the Space Race so literaly!

Its just a game mechanism to find out what the best all rounded civ is in the late game.

Stop taking the Space Race so literaly!

Its just a game mechanism to find out what the best all rounded civ is in the late game.

It is part of the game just like many other elements. It is the synergy of all of them that make Civ4 the great game that it is. It is fair for people to enjoy the aspect of "colonizing space" just as much as conquering other civs; and in that respect, wanting the best version of that part of the game is reasonable. Personally, I like the space race victory best (kind of) because I like the modern and future eras, and having it well fleshed out would make it more enjoyable.

For example, why have wonders? Just have the player spend 400 :hammers: building a generic thing and after it is built, a generic text box shows up and says, "Great Job! Now you get +2 :). Have fun!" That would be very lame, and people would think it is stupid. If there were enough elements of the game like that, people likely would not play it.

Yes, I agree; the game needs flavour. But should that flavour always equate to realism? I don't see why.

Yes, I agree; the game needs flavour. But should that flavour always equate to realism? I don't see why.

I guess you are right there. After all, most of the wonder effects are not "realistic" :), but they are still fun. Good point.

I say just refer to the ship as a "colony ship." The true civ fans would know that it's going to Alpha Centauri; the ultimate civ fans would know that it's going to Alpha Centauri so that various factions representing specific political ideologies can battle it out with Mind Worms and eventually transcend the mortal world. All the other fakers can just think they're colonizing Mars or something like that. :p

The Following quote proves that the Portuguese visited Mars as early as the 1470s:


"The complete record of the Portuguese exploration voyages is unknown. Much was kept in secret due to competition with the neighbours of Castile. The archives of this period were destroyed in the fire after the 1755 Lisbon earthquake and what was not destroyed during the earthquake was either stolen or destroyed during the French invansions, the British dictatorship and/or by pure negligence. Modern historians are still debating their true extent, suspecting that Portuguese astronauts reached the planet Mars by approximately 1470 and also Jupiter by as early as 1480."

:yup:

The United States announced their plan to send a man back to the moon and establish a Station there in 2025 3 years ago.

The United States announced their plan to send a man back to the moon and establish a Station there in 2025 3 years ago.


Dammit, it's the year 2028 now? did I accidentally time travel again? I hate it when that happens.:confused:

And when the space ship reaches the Mars/Apha Centauri why a new game does not start? :)
You begin with a Settler : "In 2025 your people has landed on Mars and begin it's colonization" :)

"Your Settler has been destroyed by the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal!"

The United States announced their plan to send a man back to the moon and establish a Station there in 2025 3 years ago.


3 years ago? Was that not longer ago? Anyway, might well happen. but there would have to be a feasible reason to do so... would be a very, very exp4ensive prestige stunt otherwise. More power to them, I hope they/Russia/China/EU do it

3 years ago? Was that not longer ago? Anyway, might well happen. but there would have to be a feasible reason to do so... would be a very, very exp4ensive prestige stunt otherwise. More power to them, I hope they/Russia/China/EU do it

There's always a feasable reason to establish an arcology on another planet. Mostly, I think it's so that you can remotely launch all the nukes and say, "Oooh, pretty!"

"Your Settler has been destroyed by the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal!"

Not if they're clever enough to wear a towel around their heads!

3 years ago? Was that not longer ago? Anyway, might well happen. but there would have to be a feasible reason to do so... would be a very, very exp4ensive prestige stunt otherwise. More power to them, I hope they/Russia/China/EU do it

I read an article that was in 2004 or 2005 saying that they were going to do it in 2025, Bush pushed new initiatives for Nasa.

I think.. it could be colonization purposes lol. I mean with these nukes from different countries being moved all over, and recent tensions... I hope id be one of the first off this rock lol