Hello,

In my current game (on warlord level, still a newbie!), i have been struggling to build my culture and military to keep up with two civ's that are stronger than me.

The tide suddenly turned when a less advanced civ out-of-the-blue voluntarily asked to become my vassal state. My territory expanded (due to some of my smaller cities near their territory suddenly getting larger). My score also went up quite a bit.

I understand that the vassal state can voluntarily cancel the deal after 10 turns. What is it that would make the AI decide to renew or cancel the deal?

Thank you very much!

If the AI still wants to be your Vassal, he won't cancel the deal. One good option is to have a far lower :espionage: stockpile than him. That way, he can spy on you all he wants without fear of impunity. Another good way to keep a vassal is to have him start the Apollo Program. You won't be able to prevent his launch in any way.

...No, I don't think the AI actually accounts for those, but you never can be sure...

Its quite straightforward. He obviously likes you quite a bit, and you are also a strong military power in the world. To keep him, just make sure your power rating doesn't drop, trade with him, give him an occasional gift and he's yours for keeps, most likely.

Later, make sure you don't become too powerful in relation to him, or you may get the (nonesensical to me) "we fear you have grown too powerful for us", which can cause him to leave you (and then get killed on his own, as I said nonesensical, but it happens).

thanks for the response. It's hard to know what the AI is thinking sometimes! They are no longer a threat and their cultural borders are getting smaller and smaller, so i will probably just gift them a tech every now and then to keep them happy.

The only way I've been able to keep voluntary vassals is by starting occasional wars here and there. I've found vassals wol't leave in the midst of a war very often, and the +Our Mutual Military Struggle adds a lot of weight to your friendship. I've heard though (but haven't experienced this in practice) that if you keep your power rating high, and your relation with him at friendly, they wol't leave.

I have beat the snot out of several civs in recent games, only to find the next turn after we make peace ... that they are now the vassal of some enemy civ.

Do I have any control over this? One minute, I'm looking forward to continuing my destruction of the civ, and the next minute they are protected by some other civ and I have to back off.

Bummer. Again, I see no way to ask if they would LIKE to be my vassal, or did I miss it?

Bummer. Again, I see no way to ask if they would LIKE to be my vassal, or did I miss it?

they have relationship level thresholds for whether they'll voluntarily vassalize or not, the same way they decide whether they'll trade techs or world maps. Gandhi asks incredibly often, i think his limit might be as low as cautious, cba to check right now. on the other hand, it came up in another thread that Washington won't become a voluntary vassal unless he's Friendly with you.

so i think you might not have ever had a chance to take them as a vassal i suppose. if your victim was someone who'll only volunteer at pleased or friendly, then i doubt he was happy enough with you on the turn of the peace treaty to offer :lol:. so that was redlinedl. but he was in denial about how much you'd hurt him so far, so capitulate was redlined during peace negotiations.

i don't know how they decide whether or not to capitulate. it seems to me that some give in earlier than others, but i really have no idea how that all works.

Bummer. Again, I see no way to ask if they would LIKE to be my vassal, or did I miss it?

During wartime diplomacy, the "Capitulation" option will appear on their side. Usually. Sometimes it's not there, I've noticed.

it only shows up if one of you know feudalism. but after that it always shows up as far as i've seen. usually redlined, but it's there. same with "Vassal State" on their side in peace time.

Usually I just stay powerful and I collect many involuntary vassals. That way I think the vassal state doesn't break off out of fear of my military power. Same with a capitulated state that is over the 50% threshold for both land and population, they don't break off because I am too powerful

I have beat the snot out of several civs in recent games, only to find the next turn after we make peace ... that they are now the vassal of some enemy civ.

Do I have any control over this? One minute, I'm looking forward to continuing my destruction of the civ, and the next minute they are protected by some other civ and I have to back off.

Bummer. Again, I see no way to ask if they would LIKE to be my vassal, or did I miss it?

That's the whole point of vassals: giving militarily weak civs a way of surviving by hiding behind stronger ones. *Cough* France *Cough*

Just because a civ volunteers to be your vassal, doesn't mean it's not trying to win. Actually, it may be trying to win by cultural victory and how do you stop them if they are your vassal? (The easiest way is to raze one of their top 3, but that's not an option now). If their culture becomes strong enough they can even flip your cities. You think you're safe because a vassal can't take away any of your cities' BFC squares, then WHAMMO, your city goes into revolt!