Rise of Mankind mod is slowly reaching v1.0 which I hope to be as stable and balanced as possible. It will not however have all the features I originally intended to add to this mod. That's why we need to start discussing what features to include to version 2.0.

I'll list here things that I'd like to include:

Mods to combine

Solver's unofficial patch
Solver's Events
Ranged Bombardment
M.A.D nukes
4Lerts
zCivics (for civic specific units/buildings)
Secret Technology

Techs
Wireless Electricity (already exists)
Invisible materials (first cloaks already made)
Knowledge Management (leadership tech, already exists)
Multi-Cultural Leadership (already exists)
Standardized Quality Control (ISO-standards, already exists)
Controlled Gravity
Artificial Gravity
Interactive Paper (prototypes exist)
Global Governance (effective and equal way to control globalisation)
Glogalisation (globalisation on local level)
Intelligent Materials (materials that remember their original shape when heated, already exist)

Buildings
Basilica (polytheism)
Philosopher's school (democracy)
Manor (req hereditary rule civic)
Prison
18-hole golf course / Country Club
Zoo
Race Track
Superhighways
Brewery
Hunting lodge
Perfumery
Soccer Field / Stadium
Monorail
Natural Gas Power Plant
Solar Power Plant
Landfill
Waste to energy Plant
Travel Agency
Marina
TV Studio
Cruise ship port
Movie studio
Space Port
Subway
Fusion Lab
Hologram Theatre
Robotic Assembly Plant
Virtual reality center (GalCiv)
Soil enhancement (GalCiv)
Zero Point Energy Source (creates energy from virtual particles)
ISO Auditing Center


Religions
- Hellenism
- Egyptian mythology
- Zoroastrianism
- Shintoism
- Roman religion
- Mesoamerican religion
- Viking religion
+ maybe few others
- religion specific crusaders
- inquisition

Corporations
- Double the amount of corporations
- Give each corporation a building that can be built in city if it has that corporation present (Sid's Sushi Restaurant for example)

Events
New armor type (Roman) => bonus against arrows, req. armourer building
chain shots => wooden ships
Cotton sails => wooden ships
Rapiers => wooden ships
Witchcraft => witch hunt
arena games => famous gladiators?
tournament => mounted unit promoted
silk?
pirate treasure - mercantilism, treasure unit, coast
archimedes screw - food +1 on farms
chain shots => damage sails
buccaneer outfits
pirate bay
trip to north/south pole
mass murderer (Jack the Reaper?)
computer hacker
Earth measurements, not flat
smog
sandstorm => desert plot
bazooka upgrades => melt through tank armor
Climb to highest mountain
Master Fencing
Microwave radars
Tar -> lumbermill
Quartermaster -> morale upgrade to ship crew
Sailmaker -> heal wooden ships faster
Navigator -> speed
Surgeon -> heal crew
ship Carpenter -> repair ships
Balanced swords
Healing herbs -> medic promotion, req. naturopathy
Copper plating
Blackbeard the Pirate
Grape shot
Iron scatlings -> resist hull damage (defense against collateral?)
Crime wave
Mafia
Corruption
Train robbery -> railroad
Bank robbery
Smoke detectors
Neighborhood watch
Tourism advertisement
Nuclear free zone
Traffic Jam
Railroad accident
Car breaks sonic speed
Mach 1 reached
Mach 10 reached
Space shuttle accident
Flaming ammo (arrows) => collateral damage bonus
Poisoned food ammo => promotion to catapult / trebuchet
Torpedoes on planes => fighters do more damage to ships
Ozone layer
Bulletproof vests
Mosaic art
Fresco art
Amber jewellery
AI pets
Biotech pets
Telegraph signal first time
First artificial element created with accelerator
Fullerenes discovered
Greek fire (ship attack bonus)
Morse Code
ENIGMA
Vulcanization of rubber
Revolvers (Samuel Colt)
Pasteurization
Stainless steel

Wonders
Shangri La
Petra
Alcatraz
Shakespeare's theater
Great opera house
Clausewitz's on War
Big Ben
Weather Paradigm (SMAC)
MagLifter (shoots goods to Earth's Orbit by using magnetic levitation)
Angkor Thom, Bayon Stone Faces


Projects
Global Positioning System = GPS, 1993
International Meteorological Organization, 1873
International Monetary Fund (IMF), 1961
World Health Organization (req United Nations) = WHO, 1948
World Wildlife Fund (WWF), 1961
World Meteorological Organization (WMO), 1951
International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)
Internation Theatre Institute (ITI), 1948
International Standard Organization (ISO)
F1 GP Championship
PGA golf championship

Improvements
Ski Resort (wealth)
Wild Animal Park (on fur and deer?)
Military Bombing Range (gives 1 free promotion to siege and bomber units?)
Thermal Boreholes (SMAC)
Condensor (SMAC)

Resources
Tea
Cacao
Amber
Jade
Buffalo
Rubber
Sugar Beet
Saltpeter
Olives
Oil Sand (another Oil resource, for example in Canada)
Peat (used in power plants)
Tar
Plastics
Microchips
Robot parts
Synthetic fibers
Nanotubes
Ceramic Compounds

Civics
- at least one new civic category and new options to existing categories

Air unit promotions
Improved radar
Multitargeting
Cluster bombs
Bunker busting
Nightvision
Heat-seeker missiles
Air to Air missiles

Special promotions (gained from wonders/events)
EMP Shielding


Other things

- buildings that need electricity (power) as requirement for any production, including science, health, food, hammer, culture, happiness, commerce
- Zone of control like in Civ3
- Civilization specific flavor unit lists (huge task)

All the things mentioned above might not end up in the final mod. These are just lists of things that I've thought about while I have been making version 1.0.

If you want to help with this task, you could start by answering the following questions:

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

5. What religions should be added?

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?

7. What Corporations should be added?

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?

9. What resources & improvements could be added?

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?

11. What events could be added?

12. Other changes?

reserved just in case ;)

Hmm what about nano-technologies , could add differents types of tech and buildings using the principle , nano-chips , nano-medecine , nano-chemistry ,nano-composites materials , nano-electronic .

Having differents risks of nano-pollutions depending the buildings or the units (like the nuclear plants risking to explode)or reducing health.

Buildings :
Nano-chip factory : add +5 pcent production , +10 pcents science ,+2 disease,required to build any further nano-builing.
Nano-medecine center : +2 health , +5 pcent production .
Nano-War studies : +2xp to nano-ehanced units , +20 pcents production to nano-ehanced units , +2 disease.
Nano-products recyling plants.

Nano-ehanced units : Nano-Infantry : about 10 pcents stronger than modern infantry , with special ability medic , +1 movement .
Nano-Spy : really small machines , so harder to counter than real spies .
Nano-terrorists : would be looking like a corporate businessman but would turn havoc in the targeted city .
Oh well , that was just a try to find out what could be done with nano-techs.

I like the mod, a lot. In answer to which possible mods/modules you could add I would suggest FexFX--Bigger-Longer-Deeper-Harder mod which changes the game's speeds and allows for a different feel to the epic game. Something along the lines of longer tech research but shorter build times, at least from what I've noticed. Anyway, I really enjoy it and since this is the ultimate epic civ game I think they would compliment each other well. If you want more info I would suggest searching it and it will come up, you can't miss it. Thanks again for this mod, I hope that people jump on board and really help you get this thing perfected :goodjob:
Ahh yes, there is also an Earth map by Genghis Kai that is fun to play and would make a great addition to your game. The new resources that you introduce would need to be placed but that is really the only addition needed. Anyway, thanks for all the hard work, you are doing wonders. :D

I posted in the original thread about this but I'll write up again here .
I had an idea about the evolution of currency (introducing different types of currency so you wouldn't just research currency and bam you had all types of money) .
So anyway - Here's what I had in mind:
I'm not sure if currency is dependent on paper right now (I think it is but I'm not sure ) so if it is - remove that - and branch the following off of currency:
Currency ---> Coins [need copper and give + maybe 5% or something cost to town maintenance (people are going to want coins for their work) but gives more production in each city (people would work harder to earn coins ) - maybe + 2 hammers or something maybe more) ---> Valuable Coins (need gold or silver) - these give +1 trade route per city (because foreign merchants would want to get some coins from you) , maybe gives a bigger chance of a great merchant appearing in all cities (not sure how much) and increases production even further (+ 5 hammers maybe more per town ) .

Then: Paper + Currency ----> Drafts (an early form of bills - was given to farmers and such for their work) - this gives +5% food from pastures and farms -----> Bills (this gives+5% food on top of that ) and also +10% or something income between your own cities or something like this .

Then Bills + Printing Press and something else I think , maybe someone with more info on what money needs for production can help -----> Modern Polymer bills (this gives +10% from foreign sources )

And later Modern Polymer Bills + Plastics + Computers -----> Credit Cards which give + income from supermarket (you should have it by then ) and +1 happiness per town (and possibly faster production times for buildings and units since it's easier to pay for them ) .

I also have an idea about a possible new improvement - something like a shrine or altar or something dedicated to your religion that can be built on your land and on neutral land close to other civs' borders so that if they build a city close to the shrine and it is connected to a road it spreads your religion ( and maybe give each missionary the ability to change the religion of the shrine but if they do that a few groups of loyalists appear and start to attack towns that have other religion than the shrine used to have ).

Preface: I have no idea how difficult this would be to implement and it may go beyond the scope of what your looking for.

Suggestion: Allow players to either stop the governer from building/suggesting certain buildings or implement a way for players to create custom prioritization of buildings.

It is awsome how many new buildings this mod adds to the game, and I think it makes very good sense that there be negative consequences on some buildings. Some of the buildings have rather large consequences, such as the oil refinery/international harbor (-1 food per water tile) or the brothel (-25% gold) or the dirty power buildings. As your empire gets very large, it becomes convenient to rely on the suggested building options to speed up your turn, especially in the outlying, less important cities that may have dozens of buildings left to build. The problem is that often the suggested building will hurt your city more than it helps. Particularly with the Oil Refinery once one or two is built, and the Brothel in a city with no unhappiness. And once a city starts suggesting it, it rarely stops till you relent and build it. What appears to be needed is either a don't build this option, or better, a build priority system.

Also, with buildings now carrying with them more penalties, the ability to removed, either by selling, or simply destroying them would be great. (I have seen this in a mod, though I do not know which)

You have the ship promotions classified for wooden, steam, diesel, etc., but all the ships themselves are still classified as naval units so none of them can take the promotions. I've noticed a similar problem with the air units and armored units. None of them seem to get any promotions either.

You have the ship promotions classified for wooden, steam, diesel, etc., but all the ships themselves are still classified as naval units so none of them can take the promotions. I've noticed a similar problem with the air units and armored units. None of them seem to get any promotions either.
That's a new one. Checked Civ4UnitInfos.xml just and there was 0 units with UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL which was removed and replaced with UNITCOMBAT_WOODEN_SHIPS etc. Also 0 results for UNITCOMBAT_AIR so there's no air units that are still in that group. To make sure there's no such problem I used Grep to find UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL from all python/xml files and only references to it are in CvAdvisorUtils.py file (there when you build your first naval units). For me promotions have worked correctly and I can't find the bug you've experienced.

Your right, i was using old MOD, sorry, then how about this one:

There seems to be dozens of techs that don't lead to anywhere or anything. What's the point of a tech that provides no build, unit, civic, or new tech branch?

@strategyonly

What version have you been looking at? ;) v0.9.4 has only 4 empty techs and one of them is disabled so that it can't be researched. On my WIP version there's only 3 empty techs left at the moment and when v1.0 is complete, there won't be empty techs left since I'm adding stuff to them. Earlier versions had more empty techs because I hadn't had time to new stuff to them, I just built first new tech tree and rest of new stuff has been made after that.

For version 2.0 I'm planning to add few new future techs but for most parts it will remain the same as for v1.0.

@strategyonly

What version have you been looking at? ;) v0.9.4 has only 4 empty techs and one of them is disabled so that it can't be researched. On my WIP version there's only 3 empty techs left at the moment and when v1.0 is complete, there won't be empty techs left since I'm adding stuff to them. Earlier versions had more empty techs because I hadn't had time to new stuff to them, I just built first new tech tree and rest of new stuff has been made after that.

For version 2.0 I'm planning to add few new future techs but for most parts it will remain the same as for v1.0.

Ok how about weaving? leads no place?

i have current update also.

@Strategyonly

Dead-end tech tree branches are not bugs in themselves. Some of them are logical IMO. For instance Chariotry and Elephant Riding are needed only if you really want to have the units they provide. I agree to the idea in principle. You can either choose to research the tech and get the unit or to move on and advance through the main path faster. It also makes more sense in case you don't have access to Ivory, or Horses.

Now what seems a sort of a fault that is better be thought over is the case when a building or a promotion is also attached to the tech. While you can do without a unit especially if you can't build it in the first place you still may need the building or the promotion.

Bottom line is, dead-end techs are good as they make you think of the way you take through the tech tree based on your needs and resources.

Those techs that seem not to lead further are often used as AND requirements for other techs/units/buildings. I had to use AND operator in many cases since the tech tree arrows caused a mess if used OR operator. For example Weaving is required for Sailing. There are also many units/buildings that required other techs than the one that enables them, for example War Elephant (construction tech) units do require Elephant riding tech.

The F1 championship sounds nice to me:cool:

Exhaustible resources (iron, oil, etc...). It can be done as events.
Or another hard way (but more interesting): One iron mine or horse pasture can support 10 (for example) units that need this resource to be made. So if you have two iron resources and one horse you can produce 10 knights (1 iron + 1 horse) and 10 pikemans (1 last iron).
Can anyone make it? It would be GREAT!

P.S. I'm not native English speaker, so don't be severe :)

One thing I liked in anprior civ titles (I forget which, I think it was CTP) was a wonder by the name of "egalitarian act", by which your nation had add'l happiness and all others hadd add'l unhappiness. Any way we might be able to bring in such a wonder? Maybe make it a latter age wonder?

How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?
Unique effects seem to be the most common and popular feature of them. Perhaps develop differences between earlier and later religions? Early, local religions may not spread by priests and, whilst there are wonders that tie in with them, they may lack Holy Shrines and Cathedrals not be able to build the Apostolic Palace?

What Corporations should be added?
Additional ones to represent computing, fast food and shoes/clothes/Nike/etc, preferably with multiples of each with different effects.

How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?
Corporations should NOT compete just because they use the same resources. That's competition in the wild; in business, I would've thought they'd be competing for the consumer. This means that computing (Apple, Microsoft), gaming (Nintendo, Sega), fast food (MacDonalds, Burger King) would compete with each other but artists and engineers don't.

What resources & improvements could be added?
More 'by-products'? Possibly some with negative consequences? Not quite sure what though...
Additional 'upgrade' improvements? Camps become 'Trapper Camps' or something? Not sure...

What events could be added?
Well... if you're in need of events... I think I could write up a big list of ideas and affects. That is, if you're open to suggestions.

Also, seeing the list of things includes things such as golf courses, zoos and travel agencies... is there a chance we might see the tourism mechanic from Civ 3 return?

If not, the Travel Agency might increase commerce in the city it's built in but reduce happiness in a few distant locations (representing possible local resentment of tourists) or increase happiness in those locations (representing local support for tourism and the jobs it provides)?

Hmm what about nano-technologies , could add differents types of tech and buildings using the principle , nano-chips , nano-medecine , nano-chemistry ,nano-composites materials , nano-electronic .

Having differents risks of nano-pollutions depending the buildings or the units (like the nuclear plants risking to explode)or reducing health.

Buildings :
Nano-chip factory : add +5 pcent production , +10 pcents science ,+2 disease,required to build any further nano-builing.
Nano-medecine center : +2 health , +5 pcent production .
Nano-War studies : +2xp to nano-ehanced units , +20 pcents production to nano-ehanced units , +2 disease.
Nano-products recyling plants.

Nano-ehanced units : Nano-Infantry : about 10 pcents stronger than modern infantry , with special ability medic , +1 movement .
Nano-Spy : really small machines , so harder to counter than real spies .
Nano-terrorists : would be looking like a corporate businessman but would turn havoc in the targeted city .
Oh well , that was just a try to find out what could be done with nano-techs.Although those are good ideas, I'm not very fond of adding that many nano-<place your word here> things to the mod. Those ideas can be used, just need to figure slightly better names for them. ;)

If you like reading novels that have things like those, I recommend reading Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky books and Iain M. Banks' The Culture books and Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space + sequels. Idea for Nanite cloud unit was taken from one book written by those authors. ;)

@enaceo

Your idea about currency's evolution is good one - currency in this game is in pretty simple form so anything that would make it more like in real world, would be nice addition. Not sure how to implement this kind of idea though (yet).

Exhaustible resources (iron, oil, etc...). It can be done as events.
Or another hard way (but more interesting): One iron mine or horse pasture can support 10 (for example) units that need this resource to be made. So if you have two iron resources and one horse you can produce 10 knights (1 iron + 1 horse) and 10 pikemans (1 last iron).
Can anyone make it? It would be GREAT!

P.S. I'm not native English speaker, so don't be severe :)I think Next War mod has exhaustible resources and it's done in python. I think it wouldn't be that hard to add this feature to my mod as well as I could look how it was done for Next War. Events can give new resources and I've seen this happen in my games sometimes. Not sure how limiting unit amounts to resource amounts could be made - that kind of feature would give reason to go war with your neighbors more often since you need more resources if you want bigger armies. But at the same time it might cripple the AI players since they wouldn't be "wise" enough to build correct unit types to effectively compete with against player.

Not sure how limiting unit amounts to resource amounts could be made - that kind of feature would give reason to go war with your neighbors more often since you need more resources if you want bigger armies. But at the same time it might cripple the AI players since they wouldn't be "wise" enough to build correct unit types to effectively compete with against player.

That's mean NO... What a pity! :cry:

But there is no sense to produce a lot of ammunition or steel or oil products (or anything else) without limiting unit amounts to resource amounts. What do you think about this? Don't you wanna even try to realize this idea?

Isn't someone making a quantative resources mod?

When are you'll going to put a new complete MOD update out?

zappara, I haven't played much until now (not enough time), but I really love this mod!
It is very pleasant to see that others have thought along the lines of my ideas and even put them into the game!

What I would like to ask for, though, is an overhaul of promotions. I have experienced that you may get a General really soon, although you do not have that much promotions available.
Therefor, you have the chance to make him a military trainer, to have him create a war academy or - to make him a troop leader.
To the last option I refer: I always found it very annoying how easily Generals are defeated. I mean, conceptionwise they symbolize troops led by very skillful commanders, no?
I would suggest to offer special promotions for Generals which add some first strikes to the "normal" promotions, thus reflecting the high skills of the commander.
This way, Generals really could become powerful units - like the armies led by a Napoleon or Alexander.

What do you think?

Then I do have another suggestion:
In my copy of your mod, I have taken the liberty to change cottages - towns.
First, they are available for all terrain, if there is one food available. It has always bugged me that a agricultural powerhouse was not able to make proper use of that one tundra field in the fat cross.

Furthermore, I did add +1 production to villages and towns, as suburbs of this size are assumed to have quite some early industry available as well.
Additionally, I have added +1 commerce for roads and railroads, as this should reflect the additional trading between the metropolis and its suburbs.
Finally, for villages and towns I subtract one food, as this reflects the decreased space for agriculture on the tile.

For your convenience, I have attached the respective file to this posting, maybe you want to make use of some of my ideas.

Edit: please take notice that this file is my first attempt for modular xml. Therefore, it makes reference to a copy of the CIV4TerrainSchema.xml, which has to be put in the same folder.
I had to save it as txt-file, as otherwise I was not allowed to upload it.

Hmm. That's pretty potent; cottaging everything has always been a pretty good strategy... does it really need to be made better?

Hmm. That's pretty potent; cottaging everything has always been a pretty good strategy... does it really need to be made better?
It clearly comes with a price: the -1 food later. You will find that you may suddenly struggle in your bigger cities.

I am currently trying to find out how good the AI deals with it, but at the moment I am pretty satisfied.

I really enjoy Rise of Mankind, but i want my civics!!! Look at Overload 2 or ViSa! CIVICS!!!!

waha, but thanks zappara!

Hey thanks for the mod it is alot of fun..... the only thing that I find annoying is that there is to many buildings and not enough time to build them. Do not get me wrong I love all the buildings. you could fix this by making the techs harder to resreach and I also noticed because there is so many buildings the ai gets alot of bonuses against building things faster so with alot of buildings it makes the ai harder on the levels. just some thought see ya


P.S I love the way you have steel done and oil and all that but maybe you could add in that one amunation gives you only enough support for like 15 units or so and same for the oil and things like that it could make the game alot more fun. It would also be harder for the ai to build really big armies to

the only thing that I find annoying is that there is to many buildings and not enough time to build them.

I think thats kinda the point, have to pick and choose what you want the city to build, what direction you want it to go in.

Hi Zappara,

I love Rise of Mankind.


I hope that I don't say absolutely redundant stuff, but
one thing I would change for 2.0 is cosmetic:

the modern grenadier should look more like the infantry and not like the marines, because
infantry and modern grenadier is researched by the same technique in your mod. :)
(Moreover it is quite the same era like represented in the mod.)

With Nif Viewer and Nifscope I made such modern grenadier unit which based in my case on a
German infantry I took from the great Varietas Delectat mod.

hmm.

I know that it is a huge task to give a full ethnical diversity to RoM, particularly because it has more and more units.
I combined parts of Varietas Delectat with Rise of Mankind myself and
edited some XML's to have for example the pikemen from Varietas Delectat
as normal and heavy pikeman for each civilization. Furthermore I found units
in Varietas Delectat which I use now as "modern infantry", in fact Varietas
Delectat's marine units of Germany, England and France which look very modern to me.
I also took the complete African noncombatant set (uploaded by Polycrates) and added it to RoM.

Again: I love your mod.

Thanks for the awesome mod !

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

-Finland as a civ

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

-Special opertions as a unit/tech (SAS-England, Speznaz-Russia, Erikoisjääkäri-Finland etc...)

:goodjob:

vahti

About the cottages modular change which I posted above:
Since 3.13 this does not work correctly anymore. That means, the modularity does not work anymore, the settings by themselves are ok and the AI is very well able - according to my observations - to cope with it.

Just wanted to let you know...

My bad how do you keep this all in your head! Past, present and future

:king: :goodjob:

My bad how do you keep this all in your head! Past, present and future

:king: :goodjob:
It's called multithread-thinking.. keeping past, present and future in their own thought patterns ;)

...actually I keep notes about everything plus I've followed world of science for about 20 years now so my brains are filled with all kinds of stuff :D

I gotta say that in my second game I still really dislike the 4 World Wonder limit per city. I gotta remove that limit - IMO if you're lucky enough and skilled to have some few cities that can get you to Wonders first in a cutthroat world, any further limits are just cruel.

I'm enjoying the extra food given by some of the new civics too, but I can see how that will be quite dangerous, given that I don't think about the food when I go to change civics, and I could easily end up with a load of starving cities. That's not a criticism of the mod, just an observation I hope other players will keep in mind if they haven't already considered it.

I gotta say that in my second game I still really dislike the 4 World Wonder limit per city.

Is there any way to make this dependable on map size or number of opponents? Large and up maps, cities are limited to 4. Medium 5. Small infinite? Or possibly 12+ opponents, 4 wonders. 10-12 opponents 5, and so on and so forth.

I dislike the limit too. In a game against 5 CPUs i had 20 World Wonders in my five biggest cities. But - boom - there were World Wonders available to build, but i cannot build them ... because there are obsolete early wonders taking the slots for them.

I feeled realy dumb. Having a lot of nearly useless wonders and cannot build the usefull end-game wonders. (My other cities were founded later and they had low production until the very end of the game)

Btw. it is possible to raze buildings? If not - this is a feature request.

It's called multithread-thinking.. keeping past, present and future in their own thought patterns ;)

...actually I keep notes about everything plus I've followed world of science for about 20 years now so my brains are filled with all kinds of stuff :D

Yes you must have a good understanding about history and present day science looking at the tech tree.

Some thoughts:

I think some buildings give way to much bonussus, like the casino another 50% commerce. Its a good moneymaker but not to that extend. E-bank has that too but i think thats ok since that would be another leap like the medieval bank. And they are far apart. You already have the jeweller 20% which is cheaper than the bazaar15% btw but 5% more commerce and only buildable with precious metals and stones. Then you have market 20% and grocer 25%.
Not to forget ports which make a big difference.

There are alot more buildings for each type culture, commerce and science because of all those new techs so i think smaller increments would be better.
balancing the game is hard enough as it is i can imagine...

Ideally faster build times on marathon for both units and buildings but slower research. Compared to normal speed games my army was very small compared to my empire, i had enough money to upgrade and i needed to since build times were long, didnt reach 1 turn builds in late game 2 turns was highest in late game. I am talking about the bigger units not cruise missiles of course.


I missed the FW 190 for germany aswell as grey uniform infantry but the latter wasnt in before, so thats a hint :)

Oh and about the civic options that give unhappy faces if you dont have it, there is more then one civic category, will the ai pick another choice when all the other ai's stick with say emancipation and not take contracting? And why would i as player? In the later game you have enough happy faces to compensate is that the idea? but there are two civic categories that have that effect thats a big penalty if you move up the tree(if you change both). Ai wont make those choices even though the new bonussus you get are better. Which in turn make them actually worse because of all the unhappyness.

Contracting and those healthcare civics, which give unhappyness if you dont have it, are begotten by industrials techs. Which means you dont have enough happy faces to compensate yet, still they are available and can be used but at great penalty.
I know there arent equal numbers for each civic category.

Gunships against gunpowder units are unbalanced starting from musketman, if you have a good defensable position you get very bad odds for your gunship attacking a musketman in a city. Gets even worse with riflemen. Having gunpowder units is a major step in defense since lots if not all modern units have bonussus against melee and archer but so much against gunpowder. So if you have riflemen you can hold out pretty well. Of course bombardment by any means will bring down the greatest foe. but 1 on 1 its (too) though fighting gunpowder units with modern units compared to fighting melee units.

Dont know if this is intended or not, but in the first pic you can see that the Church of Nativity is still available to be built, BUT in the 2nd pic you can see that i had already built it??:rolleyes:

Thanks for all the feedback. Taking all in consideration when upgrading the mod. Techleak is one mod component that I'm interested as well and will see if I can combine it to my mod. There's plenty of mod components that I'd like to use, just combining them is the hard part. :D

Dont know if this is intended or not, but in the first pic you can see that the Church of Nativity is still available to be built, BUT in the 2nd pic you can see that i had already built it??:rolleyes:It's intended changed. If you read version history, you'll see that religious shrines are no longer considered as World Wonders. They were changed because now you can built them in your holy city even if the city already has the max amount of World Wonders built (if you had before 4 world wonders, you couldn't built religion shrine there). It shouldn't affect gameplay but indeed you'll see the build button on those units still.

just wanted to give feedback before your new patch ;) :)

to bad im away from my puter for most of this weekend :cry: :D

I think that a good category would be like in the CtP, where the military services had to be able according to occurred them. From Peace to war. Pôr supposed that would have effect in the economy.

great mod, one suggestion would be updating the naval units as some of the ships are just resized like the 2 different types of carriers and the aegis cruiser being a resized destroyer....again great mod thanks!!!

Please add increased city radius mod. Love those huge fat crosses...

I think it would great to include Mastery for a victory condition.
I used it in ViSa, it added so much to the game. I like long games so I always choose Conquest so the game ends when I want it to or I die.

If this has already been mentioned please forgive me and consider this another vote for Mastery Victory.

Thank you
P

Hi,
I know this might not be an appropriate place but would like some input on things I myself want to create as custom assets for ROM, but am having difficulty downloading the Platform SDK. My Ideas are as follows:

New Resources

1. Shark + acts as Double fish resource
2. Dolphin + 2Culture/ Research
3. Seal + Fur + 1 happy/culture
4. Turtle + 1Culture/ Research + 2 health
5. Octopi+ 1Culture/ Research + 1 health
6. Squid+ 1Culture/ Research + 1 health
7. Coral +2 happy/culture + bonus to nearby city defences vs. naval assault
8. Lagoon converts sea square into lake
9. Natural Gas Alternate Power source needs Chemical Plant

New buildings
A. Surf Shack + 1 happy/culture
B. Leisure Park + 2 happy/culture
C. Wildlife Preserve + 1 happy/culture per Deer/fur/Ivory
D. Naval Research Institute + Research
E. Sea World / aquariums + 2 happy/culture
F. Oceanography institute + Research
G. Sports Stadium + 3 happy/culture
H. Harbour defences defensive bonus versus Amphibious assault
I. Race Track + 2 happiness
J. Chemical Plant Provides Power from Natural Gas

New improvements
I. Wind Farms for Sea sectors
II. Sea Defences defensive bonus versus Amphibious assault
III. Defence Platforms for sea Squares Stealth unit detection + sentry attack versus Naval units
IV. Ocean Fishing boats for all ocean resources
V. Yachts & Boats for + happy/culture to nearest city from lakes

New Units
 Dolphins – for Anti-sub or anti-naval attack unit
 Settlers that deploy a % of tech buildings researched dependant on era, with the Tech Prefab giving a bonus or all buildings in Modern era.
New Tech
 Deep Sea fishing allows Ocean fishing of resources
 Theme Parks allows all Ocean/sea resources to produce +1 Happy& +1 Culture per resource to nearest city
 Naval Research allows use of dolphins as Naval units
 Oceanography reveals Ocean fishing of resources
 Prefabrication Improves build speed and allows settlers to increase number of buildings when founding cities
 Canals Improves river Trade
 Sports Improves Culture and Happiness per Sports Stadium / Race Track
 Motor Sports Access to Race Track building

New Corporations
o Cruise Line + Trade ocean bonus
o National Airline + Trade Airport bonus

New Wonders
National
• Alton Towers
• Lloyds
• Champions Cup
• National Stadium
• Pleasure Cruise
• Budget Airlines
• Yacht racing
• National Racing

World
 Disney World
 World Cup
 Round the world Yacht race
 Formula One

Any thoughs appreciated

I'd like to see:

Railway stations, passenger (wealth/culture/happiness?) and freight (production?) which are required to build a national rail network wonder

Similar wonders for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, like the Bhuddist one - I forget the name.

'Language schools' leading to 'cultural exchange program' or some such building and wonder set that gives a relations bonus with all other civs and/or culture boost

East India Company related stuff

Nukes that really nuke like nukes really do

Longer lasting eras and less frequent unit obselesence - more techs or harder to research to progression tech.

Some ships between classical triremes and caravels (such as the cogs from medieval 2 total war)

An enourmous world map with 40 civs

Future era (maybe this is going a little to far) with all manner of Mechas, insane hover tanks and laser battleships, spaceports which lead to somekind of wonder, sea cities, a third type of road, a 'super farm' to make cities grow to stupidly large sizes and other wonderfully quasi-futuristic things...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=256416

Here are some stuff to help you expand your mod, new leaderheads, Slave icon, tech quotes, some wonder texts to help you out. ;)

There is some ideas:
- Event (After discovering one tech that allows you to build the spaceship): an OVNI falls near one of your cities. There is a 50% chance that the guys inside are alive, 50% that they are dead. If they are alive, they may build a base and start attacking you with Hi-Tech weapons or they may ally with you and provide you with technology. If they attack you, all empires in the world may ally against the aliens, who may drop troops in a random pattern around the globe. If they help you, you get a few techs and a boost on the spaceship construction.
- Few ideas I had before I read this, which I posted in other place:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6362897&postcount=158

Rise of Mankind mod is slowly reaching v1.0 which I hope to be as stable and balanced as possible. It will not however have all the features I originally intended to add to this mod. That's why we need to start discussing what features to include to version 2.0.

If you want to help with this task, you could start by answering the following questions:

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

5. What religions should be added?

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?

7. What Corporations should be added?

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?

9. What resources & improvements could be added?

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?

11. What events could be added?

12. Other changes?


Hello Zappara:
First, let me tell you this: your mod is fantastic, excellent, heavenly work, really, it gave a new dimension to the game.
In another hand, allow me to say a had made a few changes, just to put the play more on my likes, that could be interesting for you.
I found the mod too quick,I mean lots of teach coming so fast without time to enjoy them, so I thought I would need a slower game.Normally I use carter´s mod, wich gives an extra speed calles odissey, slower than marathon, but I have no idea about merging mods soI changed the tech cost to 800 in GameSpeedInfo
I'll recomend you both things : use Carter's mod (itwill gives you the chance to use 32 ciilizations and a new extra -large map size called planetary) and increase the techs cost. Also I changed the start year to 10000 B.C. , and the wonders limitation per city from 4 to 50
Zappara , I really send to you all my grattitude for your mod , I'm really impressed ,but , please , I would really apreciate the possibility of a slower game with all the civilizations at play . If you dont mind to much , please add the chance to 2.0 version.Now i'lltry to help answering your questions

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?
- Again:Carter's mod or bigger , you know , all civilizations at time if possible
- PetraMod by Gir. Your Petra wonder is good , i like the idea of two priests on my side but, whatabout adding the benefits of Gir's one or put them on another wonder? Have alook at it , please
- UUWonder mod , by Gir. It's the Flavian amphiteathre andgives the chance to build anothers civilizations unique units
-MachuPicchu mod , from Gir too.This one must be included in 2.0 version , because gives you benefits from the otherway useless peaks.Amazing

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?
I don't think wonders andunits costs mustbe changed ,but techs must : at least double

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?
Ithink they are pretty good as now , but it would be great if we can build anothers civilizations's unique units and buildings

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?
MachuPicchu wonder must be in

5. What religions should be added?
Maybe a few,but not many: Hellenism, Egyptian , Zoroastrianism , Viking and Mesoamerican sounds good

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?
Making unique units and buildings for each religion.If you decide to do it I can help giving ideas about them and their efects

7. What Corporations should be added?
Well , any new one must be associatedto a resource or a group of them. Ihave a few ideas:
- Second Skin Manufacturers , using deer , fur , beavers ,buffalo and seals and giving 0.50 coins per resource
- Leather Works , using elephants , cows an crocodriles and giving1 coin per resource
-Internationalmeats , using sheep, pig , cow , deer , buffalo, chicken and seal and giving 0.5 food and 0.25 coins per ressource
-Shirts Factory , using cothon and silk and givin 0.5coins per resource
-World wide Spices , using salt , sugar , sugar beet , spice, cofee and tea and giving 0.5 food and 0.5 happines per resource

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?
Unique buildings multiplaying the corporatins effcts , maybe

9. What resources & improvements could be added?
-Seals ,to improve thundra and artic tiles , providing 3 foods 1 hammer 2coins
-Beavers , to use in rivers providing as fur
-Croodriles , for rivers too , working as ivory
-Chicken , working as pigs

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified?
No

11. What events could be added?
A paladdin ,emerging from an unit if it wins 5 combats in 20 turns and giving leadership , tactics and morale promotions

12. Other changes?
One more time :I think is imprescindiblea slower play mode and the possibility tohave all the civilizations playing at the same time. Both things will make a new kind of game , enabling great combats and wars since stone age

Again , Zappara , thanks very much for your mod , it's a wonder by itself.
If you dont mind to much , i'll appreciate your answer about the ideas i gave.I'm a messmerging andprogamming , but for any other thing you need I'll be glad to help.
Thanks again

I think there is a couple of great mod components from Rhye and Fall of civilisations you should integrate with ROM.

The Congress is a fantastisk mod, and especially when its combined with, i dont know what it is Rhye did but somehow the AI is just better to do diplomacy. It is much more willing to negotiate, and it gives diplomacy a much more important role in the game.

Rise of new civilisations. I dont think it would be nice to have civ spawning in specific round like in Rhye and Fall, but it could be barb cities who spawn into a real civ (i think that mod is already out there some place) and i remember in some of the old Civ game that civs could split into two or more civs if you took there capital, something like that could be done too - maybe inspired by the stability thing in Rhye and Fall...

I liked what was added to some of the wonders in the ViSA expansion to warlords. That they spawn units when they are built. In ViSA Roman Roads spawned two fast workers, and built road on all tiles inside your cultural border. Flavian spawned 4 Legions with some very powerful upgrades. And i think Leonardos workshop upgraded units for free, like in some of the old civ games.

There are plenty of possibilities i think it would make a great addition to the wonders

I think that if you combined the parts of Rhye's and Fall of Civilization mod, this mod would be better. Adding stability could add a line civics to keep your civ from callappsing into civil war. What you could also do with this is add buildings that increase stability and have some buildings that you already have in the mod to decrease stabilty.
Instead of barbarian cities, you should put independent civs. using them the same way Rhye does.

Another thought I had was combined the Final Frontier mod with this mod. When you research a tech (Faster than light travel etc.) it goes into something like the final frontier mod. If you do this, what you could put is the unity of the planet. Example: You're the american civ and research the Faster than light travel tech and you go into the final frontier mod. Yet, the japanese and the russians have researched faster than light travel too. You would than get a third of that planet's production, assuming that there is only three civs on the planet. The amount of production, food, and commerce for each planet would have to be much higher for this to work.

I've always found espionage to be a rather superfluous aspect as I can never generate enough point without loosing huge amount of money or sacrificing science.

Inn/Tavern - like a hotel, only starting from an earlier time period. Gives Espionage based on proximity to foreign territory/open borders/percentage of foreign influence. This way you can make use of border cities that are getting considerable foreign influence. A further bonus to espionage with Wine (ply them with drink to loosen their lips kinda thing).

Could also generate happiness, wealth.

Also, maybe some civics concerning immigration, border control, and international relations. Start off with something like 'Suspicion' ("We don't take kindly to foreign folk round these parts" *brandishes pitchfork*). Other ones later like:

National Purity - increases unhappiness in cities with considerable foreign populace, but pushes it down in favour of your own faster - loose relationship points with other civs (except maybe other purists?) subsequently
Limited Entry - Free specialists (to represent picking and choosing which immigrants you want in your society), high maintainence to keep such a tight control

Woah, i just played one game, and noticed, barracks and harbor gives both 49 happines, if you built them both you got 99 happines your town. Why they give so much happines? :confused:

And when i reseached that technoly what obsolets barrack, most of my town go to unhappiness. I think its very unbalaced.

Each brothel gives +1 :) to all barracks, harbors, ports. I think it should only apply to the individual city. Then a brothel would give a max of 2 :)

Zap

Serious man congrates on such an awesome mod, thank you so much for the hours and hours of entertainment you have given me.

I cannot play vanilla BTS anymore, its just dull compared to this.

So some feedback. Well i'll keep it short for now and post more detail later.

Main concern, yes the dreaded CTD. Only solution I have found, which is a temporary one is to do a full reinstall of all of Civ. After doing that 5 times, i am planning on giving the Civ a rest whilst I eagerly await V2. I can happily provide the error messages generated if it help you. I have several saved games just before the CTD. Wish i could help more than that but I am no coder. I have tried going back saves, doing different stuff, to nail down a game aspect that may cause the issue but nothing particular seems to trigger it. I never get the issue with vanilla so I guess something is up.

Second issue. Religion. I find it very easy to get 4-5 religions plus the money building for each. This can get extremly lucrative if you plan to get 3 or 4 of those religions into one commerce city. 100% science in thge early ADs and still generate 100s gold each turn. Couple this withe widers that give you money for religion and well SE and CE seem almost redundant :) This also seems a little unrealistic. Suggest limiting holy cities to one or two max religions only and if possible make some changes to the tech tree to stop easily getting hindu/jud/conf/christianity/islam. Bud and Toa for some reason seem more difficult to get as well, maybe thats just me but seems consitant over many games.

Later tech. Yep it is simply to get 1 tech per turn. Bear in mind i guess i play Prince but i reckon there are a few too many money and sci boosters. Doesnt make sense to build some wonders that give 50% boost when a ebank will do the same thing for example

Speaking of wonders. The middle ages wow there are so many cool ones to build! Yeah i love wonders regardless the experts tell you to plan ahead and avoid the wonder love. i cant help it :) Other ages they seem more spaced out. Would be good as well to make them more different. So many give +100% sci or free techs, even if you miss one you get the other, more induvidualism would be good. Difficult i know with only a limited number or variables to fiddle with

The wonder limit, personally i like the idea, encourages more ballanced and therefore more realistic cities. It is frustrating though that building the early ones basically means you best cities dont get to build the later ones, so i end up building the three gorges in some crappy 10 pop city with 3 hammers buy just paying the 40k (as by this stage money is so easy to come by). Any way of making old/phased out wonders not count to this limit?

Culture - good skills on the 22500 target, very balanced imho

Navy - seems a bit of a lag between galleons -> destroyers. Ironclad are useless if historical and iron frigates seem so much better than SOtL or MoW so i never build those.

Nanite Clouds - funny but stupidly hard. Conquest is easy once you have them (especially vs riflemen :) )


As mentioned before by other - forge needs to be phased out by steel mill and grocer/market by shopping malls etc etc

Settlers that build cities with buildings is not the solution, the problem mainly comes when conquering cities and having to build everything from stratch again. Is there a way of limiting the cities capbailies in another way for a set number of turns? Licke revolting by not stopping anythign happneing just reducing output by a staggered ammountover time or something? like a slowly reduced penalty to ham/beakers/culture -80%, -60% etc?

Diplomacy - need to reduce vassalage, makes sense in the middle ages not the modern world - can it be voided once Emacipation discovered or Free Speech or something?

Coffee/Cotton, yeah you know about this one

Hopefully Civ 5 will seriously revamp this. Gets very frustrating after 2000 years of peace with Shaka and nothing but yellow faces and +10 opion and he still declares war on you


Anyhow gotta go sleep its 1am and work tomorrow

Look forward to v2, even if its just balancing and bug fixes and no extra content

I have been looking forward to an update for quite some time, one of my all time fav MODs, lost of choices for leaders and new wonders/buildings etc. 1 thing I notice missing from several MODs is technology leaking with trade routes, I really enjoyed that, any plans on incorporating this?

Keep up the good work, can't wait for v2.0!

I have been looking forward to an update for quite some time, one of my all time fav MODs, lost of choices for leaders and new wonders/buildings etc. 1 thing I notice missing from several MODs is technology leaking with trade routes, I really enjoyed that, any plans on incorporating this?

Keep up the good work, can't wait for v2.0!At the moment Enhanced Tech Conquest is included which means that you get certain % for one tech when you conquer enemy cities but Tech Leak mod component isn't merged since it has not been updated to BtS version yet.

Great mod. I just downloaded it and love the changes. No complaints. (however, im a big fan of the old "wonder-rush" since civ2. i changed the 4 wonder limit to no limit, just because I love a ridiculous capital...industrious leader combined with 4 or more mines is a recipe for insanity)

Anyway, I had been thinking about something I wanted to see, but not being a coder/programmer I have no idea where to start. How about a new "prehistoric era?" Im sure its been thought of before, but it bears repeating and I cant be bothered reading posts checking on it. It wouldnt necessarily be long lasting era, just something to add a little more dimension to the early game, with simple techs that make historical sense as precursors to to the ancient techs.


Starting out with 4 "nomads" a generic unit capable of defending itself(like the settlers in civ2) which can be "promoted" when appropriate techs are discovered.

All start with the same 4 basic techs...Communication, Scavenging, Primitive Tools, and Spiritualism. You gain prehistoric "research points" by a different system, maybe through exploration or discovery, or killing wild animals.

A brief summary of the tech tree that I was thinking of. Some of the ancient techs would be changed.

Communication
->Language
---->Chiefdom
-------->Labor(allows unit worker)
------------->Wheel(ancient tech, w/stone tools)
-------->Ornamentation(reveals gold, silver, gems)
-------------->Allows Mining(ancient tech, w/woodworking and stone tools)

Scavenging
->Hunting(reveals game, allows unit hunter)
---->Tracking(ancient tech, w/weaponcrafting and shelters)
---->Cooking(w/fire, reveals salt)
---->Hideworking
-------->Clothing(allows unit scout)
--------------->Weaving(ancient tech)
-------->Shelters(w/woodworking, allows settler)
->Foraging(reveals wheat, corn, rice, potato)
---->Agriculture(ancient tech)
---->Herbalism(w/shamanism)


Primitive Tools
->Stone Tools
----->Weaponcrafting(allows warrior)
--------->Toolcrafting(ancient tech)
->Woodworking
----->Shelters(w/Hideworking, allows settler)
----->Fishing(ancient tech)



Spiritualism
->Shamanism
----->Dreamwalking(reveals dye, hemp :smoke: )
---------->Ritualism(ancient tech w/fire)
---------->Herbalism(w/foraging, allows bldg herbalist)
->Animism
----->Fire
---------->Ritualism(ancient tech w/dreamwalking)
---------->Cooking (w/hunting, reveals salt, allows bldg firepit)

Hunting is now a prehistoric tech and ancient tech hunting replaced with "tracking"

Stone tools is now a prehistoric tech and ancient tech stone tools replaced with "toolcrafting."

Anyway, just a few thoughts

First of all: great job on your Mod, it is really fantastic!

Now, I don't really know much, that could enhance RoM, but since I have some problems integrating those very nice Civ-Modules from DWOLF (Nazi Germany - besides original Germany - Iran, Iraq, etc.) myself, I would be very happy, if you could add those to the next version of the mod. And maybe you could add those Features from DalesCombatMod (for more than 18 Players). The extra-stuff is for 18 players and as expected, I have no idea how to successfully integrate the changed dlls without geting one error after the other.

And one more thing i was wondering about was the civics. I am trying to keep an overview, but it is really irritating when you switch from one to another. Is it possible to somehow display what will be the actual consequences? The listing of 'intended' effects ist good, but I'm always a bit surprised about how it actually turns out. Maybe a box someplace where the consequences of the intended change are listed shortly?

First of all: great job on your Mod, it is really fantastic!

I totally agree with that!! :)


And maybe you could add those Features from DalesCombatMod (for more than 18 Players). The extra-stuff is for 18 players and as expected, I have no idea how to successfully integrate the changed dlls without geting one error after the other.

Would like to have more than 18 players, too. Probably with a second dll to download as an alternative to the original RoM-gamecoreDLL?

I would like to suggestthe additions of GIR 's wonders just a thought

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?
Dales Ranged Combat Mod

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?
There should be more time inbetween units requiring copper and units requiring iron. I find in most of my games

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?

Give each of them either a unique unit or a unique building

9. What resources & improvements could be added?

Different levels of farms. Like a basic farm would take 4 turns to construct and give +1 food while a more advanced one would take 7 turns and give +2 food.

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?

Resources like horse and deer will relocate occasionaly and if you overfarm things like corn they will run out (but if you don't they can become domesticated and produce a bigger bonus or spread around to nearby irrigated tiles. If you're not sure what I'm talking about google wild banana. Huge difference, it was breeded to yeild more food)

11. What events could be added?

If you're city is really unhealthy a plague could start and spread around to other cities forcing you to spend money on better healthcare and channel research to a cure or watch your people die

12. Other changes?

Change around resources. Make like an axeman require 5 copper and lets say mines give out 3 copper a turn (though this varies, you'd have to research better mining techniques and upgrade your mines to get more, plus luck would be a factor since different hills will have different amounts of copper and it will eventually deplete forcing you to build mines on tiles you dont use searching for copper). Allow people to trade lets say 30 pieces of copper for 10 pieces of gold with the computer or 3 pieces of copper a turn in return for 1 piece of gold. Having access to gold would let you build stuff which makes your citizens happier/produce culture and the like (jewlers and like gold monuments for example)

I'm lazy so I'm going to copy+paste what I said in another thread :p

Oh, I have a question about religion. The religions in this game seems kind of unbalanced. The temple of Solomon (which is the Jewish shrine, the 2nd oldest religion) gives +2 research and +1 gold per Jewish city while something like the shrine for Christianity only gives +1 gold or the Confucian shrine gives morale or the Tao Monastery gives martial arts. I tweaked around the values so that religions founded later on give more bonuses and spread easier (Islam has 90 as it's spread value and cities with it give +2 gold and +2 culture while Hinduism has 70 as it's spread value and gives +1 gold, +1 culture)

And 2 of your civics conflict, you can have capitalism and state property which are opposites. In a capitalist society the means of production are privately owned while in a society with state property everything, including the means of production are owned by the states

Also I think you tweak the traits, like make spiritual leaders build monasteries/missionaries faster, expansive leaders build settlers slightly faster and make protective leaders build archers/longbow men faster/get happiness from castles and walls and other stuff. And adding a third trait would make things more interesting (like productive, where tiles with 3 hammers get an extra one or seafaring, where naval units get like +10% strenght and +1 movement)

And if you change around the religious bonuses then you should find a way to increase the amount of gold needed (with like 1 or 2 religions you can easily be at 100% research bringing in like 100 gold a turn. Maybe increase matenence/inflation/civic upkeep)

Last thing, I'm not sure if you've changed this but you should make sacrifical alters require paginism or obsolete with like monotheism as in previous games I'd build them at like 1600 AD which doesn't make too much sense

Last last thing, maybe stop the AI from badgering you and asking for technologies after a certain point and stop them from asking you to declare war on your allies or stop trading with people as at harder difficulties it's quite a nuisence since diplomacy can be a major part of the game but there's no chance of like winning an election for the apostic palace if everyones either '-4 you refused to stop trading with our worse enemy' or '-4 you stopped trading with us'. So if someone asks you to stop trading with someone and you refuse there should only be a small hit to your relationship (like -2 but it's shortlived) and you accept there should be a bonus like '+2 you stopped trading with our enemies'

__________________

Do you know how you can build 7 units of the same kind in a city and it still takes the same amount of turns to build them all 7 times?
It would make since if cities could construct units 20-30% faster if they have been building them repeatedly, after all they should have become more efficent at training those units if they have built so many within the last 30 or so turns.

I also have an idea about a national wonder, you could call it say "National Engineering Systems". And this wonder would make it to where all cities in that nation can construct any city improvement 20-30% faster if it has already been built 5 times since the wonder was built. Think of it has a government controlled engineering company. (Or, on second thought, perhaps instead of being a national wonder this feature could be added to a Civic, one of the Communist/Socialist types)

It may be too much trouble to program it, but I just wanted to throw out the idea.;)

Any ETA yet??

I think some new Civilzations would be a cool additon; like the swedish empire or australia :O

apart from that; amazing mod and I am looking forward to the next version;

A question though; does civilisation allow for the whole call of power style sea worker? I loved call of power's ablity to make underwater cities and roads; added a whole new branch to the game. I gather the whole space city idea wouldnt work (the other city type in CTP1) but underwater cities would be really cool if they were possible in civ 4.

I think some new Civilzations would be a cool additon; like the swedish empire or australia :O

apart from that; amazing mod and I am looking forward to the next version;

A question though; does civilisation allow for the whole call of power style sea worker? I loved call of power's ablity to make underwater cities and roads; added a whole new branch to the game. I gather the whole space city idea wouldnt work (the other city type in CTP1) but underwater cities would be really cool if they were possible in civ 4.

underwater cities are possible in Civ4. Actually Visa mod for warlords has them.

Visa mod ey? Ill have to check it out if this one doesnt add them soon :O Thanks ^_^

Edit: maybe he could see if he could combine with the Civilisation 4 Gold mod for the new countries?

Visa mod ey? Ill have to check it out if this one doesnt add them soon :O Thanks ^_^

Edit: maybe he could see if he could combine with the Civilisation 4 Gold mod for the new countries?

You can add civs from Civ Gold to RoM yourself. It is relatively an easy process. In RoM folder find the assets folder and create a new folder there named modules in this one create another name it custom civilizations. Copy any civs you like from civ gold into this folder.

Note: for modular civs to work you have also to change one value in Rise of Mankind.ini. Open this file in notepad and there you will find the folowing

; Modular XML Loading
ModularLoading = 0

change it to
; Modular XML Loading
ModularLoading = 1

ohhh thanks; I will do that ^_^

Note: for modular civs to work you have also to change one value in Rise of Mankind.ini. Open this file in notepad and there you will find the folowingYou should also edit little bit that modular civ and add new default civic options for it because RoM has 2 new civic categories and those modular civs don't have any default settings for them.. if not added, it will unbalance the game in the beginning because modular civ will have 3x Despotism. Also some starting techs might be incorrect for modular civs (they were changed from BtS defaults).

Good catch Zappara. It totally slipped my mind. However, it is natural that you know better :lol:

@SirCabbage and others

If you have a specific number of civs in mind (ones from the civ gold pack). I would prepare them for RoM compatibility and post them in one little pack.

Just wondering ... is it possible within the game to make it so cities can work tiles outside the fat cross? Like within all of its cultural borders? Just curious.

@PanzerMeister

Look up Mylon's mod. It does exactly that. The idea was implemented since a long time for Civ4, and Warlords. Mylon's work improves on the original implementation.

Here is a link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=241976

I'll answer each question as I get to them.

Sorry its so long, but I hope you like detail.

First my standard playing style:
Gigantic Map, Snail, 18 civs, Raging Barbs, Aggresive AI, Diety.


1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

Forts with cultural border and zones of control
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243427&page=2

More than 18 Civs
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192620

Enhanced Spies
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=259221

Allow Cities to Produce Espionage (likw wealth/research/culture)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=249720

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?


Buildings:
More upgradeable buildings. Some of the buildings you have listed in the 2.0 spoliers
seem to duplicate effects and concepts.

Increase the cost of the Accelerator
Rename Artist's guild to "Academy of the Arts" and make it only buildable by a Great Artist.
Make Advanced Quality Control only buildable by a Great Engineer
Increase the cost of Advanced shielding and Arcology Shielding
Double the cost of the Biological Warfare Lab
Make Ceremonial Alter cost the same as standard Temples
Increase the cost of the Cloning Factory
Increase the cost of the Info net
Rename Lab to "Alchemist's Lab", make it obsolete with Scientific Method instead of Chemistry

Make the Colossus require Bronze Working instead of Metal Casting
Make the Heroic Epic require Military Training in addition to Literature.
Make the SS Cockpit require Advanced Computers instead of AI.
Make the SS Stasis Chamber also require Hydroponics
Make Palace of Potala require Buddhism as the active State Religion
Make Alhambra require Islam as the active State Religion
Make Statue of Liberty require Rep. Democracy & Steel instead of Biology

Techs:
In general, a tech should cost more than it's most expensive pre-requisite tech.
You don't always follow that everywhere.

I have altered the tech tree to follow this reasoning, I believe I got all of them even if I forgot to mention some in the spoiler section (I put it in spoilers tags because it is so long)

I have also altered the pre-requisite tech requirement of a few techs, and eliminated some pre-req AND requirements which were redundant. (unneeded because a existing AND/OR requirement already had it as a prior pre-req in its chain)

Overall the general cost of the late era techs went up though considering the excessive and unbalancing amount of building bonuses to science we already get by then I think this is a good thing. (The late game building bonus quantities are still unbalanced by that can be addressed with building adjustments)

My Tech-Tree Re-balancing changes:
Ancient Techs (currently 33 techs)
Make Metal Castings cost more than Pottery
Increase the cost of Chariotry Slightly (to make it more than Animal Husbandry)
Increase the cost of Trade (more than Animal Husbandry)
Make Seafaring cost More than Trade.
Make Writing cost more than Trade
Make Monotheism cost more than Writing
Increase the cost of Sculpture
Make Meditation cost more than Monarchy
Make Military Training, Meditation and Sculpture Classical Techs.

Classical Techs (currently 22 techs)
Make Usury cost more than Civil Service
Make Banking cost more than Usury
Make Literature cost more than Alphabet.
Make Drama cost slightly more than Aesthetics.
Make Machinery require Iron Working and Mathematics
Make Machinery, Canal Systems, Philosophy & Usury a Medieval Tech


Medieval Techs (currently 16)
Make Optics cost more than Machinery
Make Heraldry cost more than Feudalism
Make Sanitation cost slightly more than Canal Systems
Make Clockworks cost mre than Machinery
Make Banking cost more than Guilds
Make Paper cost more than Civil Service
Make Architecture cost more than Engineering
Make Invention cost more than Engineering
Make Gunpowder cost more than Invention
Make Matchlock cost more than Gunpowder
Make Perspective cost slightly more than Architecture
Make Political Philosophy Require Paper & Philosophy instead of Education.
Make Constitution Require Political Philosophy
Make Constitution cost more than Political Philosophy
Make Constitution, Invention, Architecture, & Perspective Renaissance Era Techs

Renaissance Techs: (currently 32)
Make Photography, Realism, Rifling, Nationalism, Explosives, Corporation,
Replaceable Parts & Military Tradition Industrial Era Techs.
Make Realism cost slightly more than Photography
Make Gunpowder cost slightly more than Education.
Make Matchlock cost slightly more than Gunpowder
Make Metallurgy cost slightly more than Gunpowder
Make Humanism cost slightly more than Printing Press
Make Divine Right cost more than Matchlock
Make Leadership cost more than Divine Right
Make Free Artistry cost slight more than Humanism
Make Juris Prudence also require Political Philosophy
Make Juris Prudence cost more than Divine Right
Make Liberalism cost more than Divine right
Make Mercantilsm cost more than Navigation
Make Economics cost more than Mercantilism
Make Social Contract cost more then Humanism
Make Flintlock cost slightly more than Leadership
Make Naval Tactics cost more than Navigation
Make Grand War cost more than Naval Tactics
Make Corporation cost more than Economics
Make Explosives require Flintlock in addition to Chemistry

Industrial Techs (currently 53)
Make Legalized Gambling, Modern Seismology, Radar, Logisitics, Mechanized Warfare,
Aviation, Amphibious Warfare, Machine Tools, Sonar, Modern Physics, Mass Media,
Armored Vehicles, Guerrilla Warfare, Electronics, Organic Chemistry,
Submarine Warfare and Plastics Modern Era Techs
Make Steam Power cost slightly more than Thermodynamics
Make Refining cost more than Scientific Method
Make Military Science cost more than Scientific Method
Make Marxism require Rep. Democracy instead of Biology
Make Marxism cost more than Rep. Democracy
Make Labor Union cost slightly more than Marxism
Make Agricultural Engineering cost more than Medicine
Make Screw Propeller cost slightly more than Steam Power
Make Semi-Automatic weapons cost more than Steam Power
Make Artillery cost more than Semi-Automatic Weapons
Make Combustion cost more than Railroad
Make Psychology require Medicine instead of Assembly Line
Make Psychology cost slightly more than Medicine
Make Refrigeration cost more than Electricity
Make Fission cost more than Electricity
Make Modern Sanitation cost more than Medicine
Make Flight cost more than Combustion
Make Motorized Transportation cost more than Combustion
Make Fascism cost slightly more than Psychology
Make Civil Engineering cost more than Modern Sanitation
Make Communism cost slightly more than Labor Union
Make Mass Transit cost more than Motorized Transportation
Make Automatic Weapons cost more than Industrialization
Make Submarine Warfare cost more than Industrialization
Make Fission require Industrialism
Make Compulsory Education cost more than Psychology
Make Organic Chemistry cost more than Compulsory Education
Make Electronics cost more than Plastics
Make Guerrilla Warfare cost more than Radio
Make Armored Vehicles cost more than Automatic Weapons
Make Mass Media cost slightly more than Electronics
Make Modern Physics cost more than Electronics
Make Sonar cost more than Electronics
Make Machine Tools also require Refining
Make Machine Tools cost more than Industrialization
Make Amphibious Warfare cost more than Armored Vehicles
Make Aviation cost more than Machine Tools
Make Mechanized Warfare cost more than Electronics
Make Radar cost more than Sonar
Make Modern Seismology cost more than Sonar
Make Legalized Gambling cost more than Mass Media

Modern Techs (currently 39)
Make Artificial Intelligence, Nanotechnology, Gene Manipulation, and Superstring Theory
Future Era Techs
Make Aerodynamics cost more than Radar
Make Vertical Flight cost more than Aerodynamics
Make Naval Aviation cost more than Radar
Make Laser cost more than Modern Physics
Make Biological Warfare cost much more than Electronics
Make Rocketry cost more than Aviation
Make Vertical flight cost more than Electronics
Make Tourism cost slightly more than Aerodynamics
Make Nuclear Power cost more than Computers
Make Guided Weapons cost more than Microchip
Make Jet Propulsion cost more than Manufacturing
Make Satellites cost more than Manufacturing
Make Computer Networks require Microchip instead of Computers
Make Computer Networks Cost more than Microchip
Make Space Flight cost more than Satellites
Make 3D Modeling cost slightly more than Computer Networks
Make Stealth cost more than Composites
Make Modern Warfare cost more than Robotics
Make Space Stations cost more than Robotics
Make Communication Networks cost slightly more than Globalization
Make Virtual Reality cost more than Globalization
Make Recycling cost slightly more than Globalization
Make Magnetic Levitation cost more than Superconductors
Make Unmanned Air Vehicles cost slightly more than Modern Warfare
Make Knowledge Management cost more than Virtual Reality
Make Artificial Intelligence cost more than Communication Networks
Make Nanotechnology cost much more than Superconductors
Make Gene Manipulation cost more than Genetics
Make Superstring theory cost more than Magnetic Levitation

Future Techs (currently 36)
Make Automated Traffic more than Communications Networks
Make Space Colonies cost more than Space Stations
Make Smart Dust cost more than Nanoelectronics
Make Nanobotics cost more than Nanoelectronics
Make Weather Control cost more than Nanobotics
Make Regenerative Medicine cost more than Anti-Aging Medicine
Make Aquaculture cost more then Ecological Engineering
Make Environmental Economics cost more than Ecological Engineering
Make Hydroponics cost more than Ecological Engineering
Make Homo Superior cost more than Bionics
Make Cryogenics cost more than Homo Superior
Make Sentient Earth cost more than Terra Computer
Make Shielding require Advanced Computers instead of Computers
Make Future Tech cost more than Cryogenics


I've attached the modified CivTechInfo.xml so you don't have to do all the work if you decide to use these suggestions.

I hope that in the next release "bombard range" will be into the package, because it doesn't work for me :(
If someone has any idea for to work it, please say me

Thanks a lot ZAPPARA

I hope that in the next release "bombard range" will be into the package, because it doesn't work for me :(
If someone has any idea for to work it, please say me

Thanks a lot ZAPPARA

Assuming that you mean "ranged bombardment" (being part of Dale's combat mod), I did have the same problem.
I did a complete reinstall of Civ4/WL/BtS/RoM 1.02 (with Kalimakhus's stuff) to get it back again.

Takes around 1 hour or so, if you have everything prepared (meaning that you have all the patches/updates somewhere on your HD, so that you just have to run them in the right moment).

ok, i'm ready

I reinstalled all games, patch but it doesn't still work.
I use Marble for terrain and a dll for 34 civ. Is there something to configure? any file .ini?

@dasvidania

If you replace the DLL that comes with the extra stuff with another DLL, of course Ranged Bombardment won't work.

:eek:
ok, thanks a lot, i will try without extern dll.

All it works !!!

thanks :)

only 18 civ whith ranged bombardment? i like to play with more civs.

Great mod, thank a lot for your work

An idea I had was having territory wars. Since almost all wars in our history were fought for territory or resources, I thought it was funny that you can't really do that in Civ4. So, to have wars to gain territory (like a couple important plots) I thought that if you had a unit stay on an enemy plot for something like 5 turns, that plot would become yours and you only can do this if it is adjancent to your territory. Also this only can happen during war.(This is because you wouldn't want the AI to get many plots with no cities around) A mod I just found that does something similar is the Influence Driven War v1.1 mod (it looks damn awesome), although it would have to be modded a little bit for RoM. Using this mod also reduces the complete dominance Defense has over Offensive warfare(If you look at it you'll see why) if you get the RevolutionDCM addon. (Which really should be a normal part of RoM, inside of being an addon).

A another I had was to not have cities completely destroy their non-obslete buildings when captured. I really hate it when captured cities are completely useless for a very long time. So making it an choice to players to have the option to raze any or all of their buildings will help that. They can do it when every they want, but they should obvisously only use it when they think their city is going to be lost. This adds some more strategy to the game and leaves the possiblities for people to capture city and start using in a reasonble amount of time.:goodjob: You can use the Abandon/Raze City/Building mod which does exactly that.

More war related improvements that I thoguht would be good is to have everyone have the ablitiy to use everyone's roads all the time, including during war time. I've read many history books on war and non of them included enemies being hampered by road movement. Also , you should be able to end wars more quickly. Another thing I think is annoying when the AI declares war on you and does nothing after you destroy his initial attack, but won't make peace for another 10-20 turns.

I also have read that Zappara wants an eighth civic section. I found the Overload 2 mod that has at least 8 civics sections.(I'm unsure because I having actually played it)

Lastly, I said this earlier but have put more thought into it, is combining the Final Frontier mod into this one. When you research a technology like Faster Than Light Travel, you go into the normal Final Frontier mod. All other civs in the game would be eliminated. This would be because you would have control of skies and could easily subdue the other civs. This is why you would have a large amount of unhappyness initial after the change to Final Frontier. Then you can have a Rise of Mankind in space. Adding the MOO2 mod could help beef up Final Frontier because I think it is a bit weak.

These are just some thoughts I had and hope they help.
(I'd help if I could but I'm not a modder)

You are a visionaire!

Yet still, I'd prompt everyone to make the effort to improve the game about mankind living on planet Earth, before jumping out to the space. After all, Civilization is, and will always be, far from the perfect experience, even if it is such a magnificent game anyways. ;)

Current version 2.0 changes list:
Civilizations
-------------
- Added: Abyssinian Empire
- Added: Iroquois Empire
- Added: Assyria
- Added: Siam

Units
-----
- Added: Arabia flavor units Archer, Axeman, Chariot, Crossbowman, longbowman, swordsman, heavy swordsman, heavy pikeman, mounted

infantry, chivalry, cavalry, rifleman, grenadier, cuirassier, war elephant, medieval worker, modern infantry

- Added: Aztec UU Eagle Warrior (replaces Heavy Pikeman)
- Added: Aztec flavor units Grenadier

- Added: Babylon flavor units chariot, crossbowman, heavy pikeman, pikeman, heavy cavalry, heavy swordsman, knight, horseman

- Added: Byzantine flavor units Axeman, archer, chariot, mounted infantry, crossbowman, swordsman, heavy swordsman, longbowman,

pikeman, heavy pikeman, heavy cavalry, infantry

- Added: Carthage flavor units Chariot

- Added: Chinese flavor units Archer, swordsman, heavy swordsman, mounted infantry, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, grenadier, War

Elephant, cavalry (asian)

- Added: African flavor units: cannon, chariot, cavalry, crossbowman, cuirassier, grenadier, horse archer, knight, longbowman,

maceman, machine gun, musketman, paratrooper, pikeman, rifleman, SAM Infantry, swordsman, war elephant, worker, explorer, Spy

- Added: Hellenic Wiseman (missionary)

- Added: Greco Roman flavor units Italian infantry, Horseman, Mounted Infantry, Axeman, Pikeman, heavy pikeman, swordsman, heavy

swordsman, heavy cavalry, cuirassier, cannon, musketman, grenadier, cavalry, rifleman

- Added: Rome flavor units longbowman, crossbowman + all new greco roman flavor units

- Added: Native american flavor units: maceman, heavy pikeman, light cavalry, warrior

- Added: South american flavor units: light cavalry (same as native)

- Added: Asian flavor units: Cavalry

- Added: Colonist, builds city of size 3 with several buildings

- Added: Pioneer, builds city of size 4 with many buildings

- Added: Modern Paratrooper
- Added: Modern Marine
- Added: Abyssinian Archer
- Added: Iroquois Mohawk Archer
- Added: Assyrian Battering Ram
- Added: Arquebusier unit, req. Gunpowder
- Added: Inquisitor, req. Inquisition civic
- Added: Siam Battle Elephant
- Changed: Middle east flavor unit Cuirassier uses now arab cuirassier graphics
- Changed: Middle east flavor unit Horseman uses now Babylon Horseman graphics
- Changed: Middle east flavor unit Swordsman uses now Babylon Swordsman graphics
- Changed: Middle east flavor unit Heavy Swordsman uses now Babylon Heavy Swordsman graphics
- Changed: Arabian horseman uses now Babylon horseman graphics
- Changed: Chariot upgrades also to Horseman
- Changed: Crusader requires King Richard's Crusade wonder instead of Castle so that it's now wonder specific unit
- Changed: America's Early Jet fighter unit swapped to F-86
- Changed: Mig 15 unique for Russia, rest use now P59 by default
- Changed: Remote Controlled Bombers unit graphics changed to Predator UAV
- Changed: Paratrooper upgrades to Modern Paratrooper, bonuses against melee and archer units added
- Changed: all Marine units upgrade to Modern Marine unit
- Changed: Police Squad unit requires now Police Station building in city
- Changed: Iron Frigate requires Military Science tech
- Changed: Ironclad requires Military Science tech
- Changed: Horseman has now +25% bonus against archer units
- Changed: Mali Cavalry has now +25% bonus against archer units
- Changed: Cavalry Auxilia has now +25% bonus against archer units
- Changed: Prodromoi has now +25% bonus against archer units
- Changed: Light Cavalry upgrades to chivalry instead of Heavy Cavalry, Machinery tech req. removed
- Changed: Heavy Cavalry moved to Invention tech, no longer can be built with copper
- Changed: Great Prophet can build new religious shrines: Statue of Zeus, Zoroastrian Shrine, Amun-Ra, Tikal
- Changed: Settler upgrades to Colonist
- Changed: Knight no longer upgrade to Chivalry
- Changed: Cavalry moved to Steam Power tech (longer wars with medieval units)
- Changed: Musketman units moved to Flintlock
- Changed: Heavy Swordsman upgrades to Musketman
- Changed: Longbow units upgrade to Musketman
- Changed: Crossbow units upgrade to Musketman
- Changed: Maceman units upgrade to Musketman
- Changed: Pikeman upgrades only to Heavy Pikeman
- Changed: Early Destroyer moved to Combustion
- Changed: Battlecruiser requires now Combustion
- changed: Cannon moved to Nationalism
- Fixed: Mig15 filename bug
- Fixed: Mig21 filename bug
- Fixed: Mig25 filename bug
- Fixed: Aegis graphic setting for low graphics
- Fixed: Roman Cavalry Auxilia replaces now correctly Horseman unit
- Fixed: Jeep size
- Fixed: Type 99 armor size
- Fixed: Plasma armor size
- Fixed: T95 size
- Fixed: T17 tanks size
- Fixed: IS2 size
- Fixed: A7V size
- Fixed: L640 size
- Fixed: M3A1 size
- Fixed: Char B1 Bis size
- Fixed: M26 size
- Fixed: PzKpfw VI Tiger I size

Buildings
---------
- Added: Hellenic Temple
- Added: Hellenic Pantheon
- Added: Hellenic Gymnasia
- Changed: Statue of Zeus is now Hellenic Shrine
- Added: Zoroastrian Fire Temple
- Added: Zoroastrian Pantheon
- Added: Zoroastrian Shrine (replaces monastery because Zoroastrianism rejects all forms of monasticism)
- Added: Zoroastrian holy mountain shrine Pir-e Sabz
- Added: Temple of Amun
- Added: Temple of Mut
- Added: Temple of Chons
- Added: The Karnak Temple Complex (Amun-Ra shrine)
- Added: Abyssinian Stele
- Added: Iroquois Longhouse
- Added: Siam Ho Trai
- Added: Temple of Jaguar (Nagualism)
- Added: Tikal (Nagualism shrine)
- Added: Assyrian Ekal (barracks)
- Added: Artesian Well
- Added: Oil Refinery graphics
- Added: Weapon factory graphics
- Added: Healer's hut graphics
- Added: Casino graphics
- Added: Water Treatment graphics
- Changed: Observatory requires Glass resource
- Changed: Brothel no longer gives happiness from other buildings (wasn't working properly), just gives +1 happiness
- Changed: Meeting Hall gives +5% bonus to espionage (think it as a tavern/inn where info is for sale)
- Changed: Forge upgrades to Steel Mill now, forge modifiers added to Steel Mill
- Changed: Removed obsolete Masonry tech req. from Aqueduct
- Changed: Casino gold bonus decreased from 50% to 25%
- Changed: Stable requires now Chariotry (can be built earlier), requires Horse or Elephants (Ivory)
- Changed: AI weight value increased for Weapon Factory
- Changed: Alchemist's Lab requires now glassware, obsolete at Scientific Method
- Changed: Fisherman's hut flavors adjusted (AI players should build it more often)
- Changed: Butchery flavors adjusted (AI players should build it more often)
- Fixed: Zulu Ikhanda obsolete at Leadership

Wonders
-------
- changed: Copernicus' observatory requires glass resource
- Changed: Chichen Itza moved to Blood Cult tech and requires Masonry tech
- Changed: Eiffel Tower requires now Steel Mill instead of Forge
- Changed: Statue of Liberty requires now Steel Mill instead of Forge, moved to Representative Democracy tech
- Changed: Aqueduct of Pont du Gard no longer goes obsolete, does not give free Aqueduct in every city, gives +2 health in city

where built and +1 health in all cities on same continent
- Changed: Alhambra has now new graphics
- changed: Sphinx has new graphics
- Changed: Supreme Court reduces anarchy length by 25%
- Changed: Magellan's Voyage moved to Navigation
- Changed: Marco Polo's Embassy moved to Optics
- Changed: colossus moved to Bronze Working

Religions
---------
- Added: Hellenism
- Added: Zoroastrianism
- Added: Amun-Ra (Egypt mythology)
- Added: Nagualism (Mesoamerican religion)

Techs
-----
- Fixed: Special Promotion tech moved to future era so that player's don't get it for free if game is started on higher eras than

ancient
- Changed: All Renaissance tech costs increased by 10%
- Changed: All Industrial tech costs increased by 30%
- Changed: All Modern time tech costs increased by 50%
- Changed: All Future era tech costs increased by 100%
- Changed: Dualism enabled
- Changed: Polytheism has Dualism as 2nd pre-req choice
- Changed: Horseback riding requires now Chariotry
- Changed: Masonry requires Stone Tools
- Changed: Fundamentalism requires Blood Cult
- Changed: Military Science requires Grand War tech
- Changed: Canal Systems no longer require Machinery
- Changed: Ecology requires Agricultural Engineering instead of Biology
- Changed: Naval Aviation requires Military Science
- Changed: Social Contract uses now Growth Advisor instead of Religion Advisor
- Changed: Nuclear Power requires now Logistics
- Changed: Ship Building requires now also Naval Warfare
- Changed: Constitution requires Democracy
- Changed: Artillery requires explosives
- Changed: Clockworks moved further in medieval techs, requires now Invention
- Changed: Civil Service no longer enable irrigation
- Changed: Rifling moved to later renaissance, requires now Replaceable Parts
- Changed: Semi-automatic weapons has now Rifling as OR requirement, replaceable parts req. removed as it's included in Rifling
- Changed: Flintlock requires Metallurgy
- Changed: Fission requires Refining
- Changed: Explosives requires Flintlock, cost increased from 2200 to 3700
- Changed: Flavor values adjusted for many techs
- Changed: Seafaring cost increased from 72 to 93
- Changed: Metal Casting cost increased from 64 to 90
- Changed: Chariotry cost increased from 100 to 120
- Changed: Trade cost increased from 80 to 85
- Changed: Machinery requires Mathematics
- changed: Meditation cost increased from 80 to 280, now classical tech
- Changed: Literature cost increased from 200 to 350
- Changed: Sculture cost increased from 72 to 95
- Changed: Usury cost increased from 600 to 850, now medieval tech
- changed: Banking cost increased from 700 to 900
- Changed: Drama cost increased from 300 to 350
- Changed: Optics cost increased from 600 to 750
- changed: Heraldry cost increased from 600 to 730
- Changed: Sanitation cost increased from 1000 to 1050
- Changed: Paper cost increased from 480 to 850
- Changed: Architecture cost increased from 1000 to 1050
- changed: Invention cost increased from 1000 to 1050
- Changed: Gunpowder cost increased from 1056 to 1075
- Changed: Matchlock cost increased from 1056 to 1100
- Changed: Political Philosophy cost increased from 880 to 1200, requires Philosophy
- Changed: Education cost decreased from 1584 to 1250
- Changed: Perspective cost increased from 700 to 1075
- Changed: Refining cost increased from 2600 to 3800
- Changed: Oil Painting cost increased from 880 to 1100
- Changed: Chemistry cost increased from 1980 to 2700
- changed: Photography cost increased from 2090 to 2750
- changed: Realism cost increased from 2090 to 2800
- changed: Mercantilism cost increased from 1936 to 1970, requires Banking
- Changed: Economics cost increased from 1400 to 2000
- changed: Corporation cost increased from 1760 to 2200
- changed: Juris Prudence cost increased from 1144 to 1600
- Changed: Social Contract cost increased from 1232 to 1650
- Changed: Realism requires Free Artistry instead of Oil Painting
- Changed: Naval tactics cost increased from 1760 to 2000
- Changed: Grand War cost increased from 1870 to 2025
- Changed: Replaceable parts cost increased from 1980 to 2300
- Changed: Thermodynamics cost decreased from 4160 to 3600
- Changed: Fission requires now Industrialism, cost increased from 5720 to 7200
- Changed: Theory of Relativicty requires now Electricity
- Changed: Representative Democracy requires Liberalism and Social Contract
- Changed: Medicine cost decreased from 5850 to 4700
- Changed: Marxism cost increased from 2912 to 4700
- changed: Labor union cost increased from 3120 to 4750
- Changed: Communism cost increased from 2912 to 4800
- Changed: Psychology cost increased from 3848 to 5250
- Changed: Fascism cost increased from 2496 to 5300
- changed: Screw Propeller cost increased from 4160 to 4200
- Changed: Railroad cost decreased from 5850 to 4200
- Changed: Electricity cost decreased from 5850 to 4250
- Changed: Semi-automatic weapons cost increased from 3900 to 4250
- changed: Artillery cost increased from 4160 to 4360
- Changed: Combustion cost increased from 3744 to 4300
- Changed: Mass Media cost increased from 3744 to 6600
- Changed: Legalized Gambling cost increased from 3744 to 6650
- Changed: Industrialism cost decreased from 6760 to 5300
- Changed: Recycling cost increased from 6600 to 8300
- Added: Agricultural Tools, req. Machinery and Feudalism
- Added: Fuel Cells
- Added: Knowledge Management icon
- Added: Space Stations icon
- Added: 3D Modeling icon
- Added: Human/Machine interface icon
- Added: Military robotics icon
- Added: Smart Dust icon
- Added: Unmanned Air Vehicles icon
- Added: Weather Control icon
- Added: Sentient Earth icon



National Wonders
----------------
- Changed: Statue of Champion req. now level 4 unit
- Changed: National Courier System reduces anarchy length by 25% (word about government changes spread more rapidly)

Leaders
-------
- Added: Menelik (Abyssinian empire)
- Added: Selassie (Abyssinian empire)
- Added: Deganawida (Iroquois empire)
- Added: Ashur (Assyrian emprire)
- Added: Mongkut (Siam)
- Added: Ramkhamhaeng (Siam)

Movies
------
- Added: Sphinx movie
- Added: Leonardo's Workshop movie
- Added: Hellenism movie
- Added: Amun-Ra movie
- Added: Zoroastrianism movie

Sound
-----
- Added: Abyssinian music
- Added: Iroquois music

Python
--------------
- Added: Enhanced Tech Conquest
- Added: Religion and Corporation Screens
- Added: Longer techbar in techscreen
- Added: Inquisition - Limited Religions
- Added: Plot List enhancements
- Added: Great People flavored tech colors (off by default, change setting in config.ini)
- Added: Settlers
- Changed: Holy Mountain python will check for presence of Cathedral and Pantheon buildings and points will be calculated from

Pantheon specialbuilding type
- Changed: National sports league event checks for Circus Maximus instead of Statue of Zeus (statue is hellenic shrine now)
- Fixed: UI problem when running mod on Civ 4 Complete Edition (CvPath.py)


Gamespeed
---------
- Added: Blitz speed option, 205 turns, only accessible in Custom Game menu
- Added: Snail speed option, 3072 turns, only accessible in Custom Game menu

Resources
---------
- Changed: Coffee gives +1 happiness
- changed: pearls give +1 happiness
- Changed: Lemon give +1 health
- Changed: Cotton gives +1 happiness
- Changed: Sugar gives +1 happiness
- Changed: Spices give +1 happiness

Improvements
------------
- Changed: Village gets +1 bonus commerce from roads and railroads, -1 to food
- Changed: Town gets +1 bonus commerce from roads and railroads, -1 to food
- Changed: Windmill gets bonus from Agricultural Tools tech instead of Civil Service
- Changed: Watermill gets bonus from Agricultural Tools tech instead of Civil Service
- Fixed: Arcology city ruins art defines were missing

Events
------
- Changed: Wining monks event, zoroastrian, hellenic, amun-ra monastery building triggers have been added to event
- Changed: Halberd event, shock promotion can now appear for Heavy Pikeman units as well
- Changed: Ancient Olympics trigger tech is now Athletics (was Polytheism)
- Changed: Hymns and sculptures events can trigger now if city has Hellenic, Zoroastrian or Amun-ra Pantheon in city
- Changed: Farm Bandits event can happen on Potato Farms
- Changed: Holy Mountain event can happen with Hellenism and Zoroastrianism
- Changed: Blizzard can be triggered at Shaft Mine, Treefarm, Hybrid Forest
- Changed: Jade event can happen on Shaft Mines
- Changed: Clunker coal event can happen on shaft mine
- Changed: Tin event can happen on shaft mine
- Changed: Bermuda Triangle event can happen to all new modern day ship classes
- Changed: Gold Rush trigger changed from Mine to Shaft Mine (most mines are shaft mines at industrial era)
- Changed: Metal decks trigger tech changed to Naval Aviation which is same when Carrier becomes available
- Changed: Long range fighters trigger tech changed to Aviation
- Changed: Farm plows event can be triggered with Shaft mine and normal mine
- Changed: Stained glass cathedral event requires glassware
- Changed: Personal Computers event requires Microchip tech
- Changed: Tea event trigger changed from Harbor to Commercial Port
- Changed: Girls best friend event triggers include now Shaft mine
- Changed: Harbormaster building requirement changed from Harbor to Port
- Changed: Master blacksmith event gives shock promotion to Light swordsman and Heavy swordsman units too
- Changed: Crusade event can happen after player has researched Fundamentalism Tech
- Changed: Miracle event can happen in city with High Walls
- Changed: Secret knowledge event can happen with Zoroastrian, Hellenic and Amun-ra monastery type buildings
- Changed: Experienced Captain event can be triggered by all new ship units
- Changed: War Chariots event tech req. changed to Chariotry, obsolete tech requirements adjusted
- Changed: Crisis in senate may give espionage bonus to Garrison building
- Changed: Elite Swordsman event gives promotion to Light Swordsman unit, obsolete techs adjusted
- Changed: Warships event requires Naval Warfare tech instead of Sailing, obsolete techs adjusted
- Changed: Noble Knights tech requirements change to Stirrup, Heraldry and Guilds
- Changed: Napalm bombs (mod) event gives Napalm bombs promotion instead of Barrage II
- Added: Mining accident can happen on shaft mine

Civics
------
- Changed: Theocracy moved to Government category
- Changed: Paganism no longer get bonus happiness from Ceremonial Altar, no upkeep
- Changed: Herbalism is default health care choice now (herbalism was used 60.000BC), no longer give +1 health in all cities,

instead gives +1 health from healer hut and from doctor's office, no longer give military production bonus in state religion

cities
- Changed: Shamanism moved to religion category, gives happiness from ceremonial altar, stonehenge and oracle, gives +1 health

from healer hut
- Added: Inquisition choice to legal category
- Added: Sacrifice Cult to Religion category
- Added: Secularism to Religion category
- Added: Industrialism to Economy category
- Added: Idolatry to religion category

Promotions
----------
- Changed: Lead by Warlord promotion gets 1 extra first strike
- Changed: Veteran pilot evasion chance decreased to 5%
- Changed: Ace pilot evasion chance decreased to 10%
- Changed: Air Refuel moved to Supersonic flight tech
- Changed: Medic II requires now Civil Service tech
- Changed: Sentry I requires Optics
- Changed: Pinch II requires Flintlock
- Added: Improved Radar promotion
- Added: Air to Air Missiles I-III promotions
- Added: Torpedoes promotion
- Added: Chaff promotion
- Added: Heroic promotion, req. Leader
- Added: Loyalty promotion, req. Leader
- Added: Siege Master promotion, req. Leader
- Fixed: duplicate entry for Hi-tech units in some promotions
- Fixed: Berzerker I-III can now be used for Animal, Archer, Melee, Mounted and Wooden Ship unit types

Gametext
--------
- Fixed: Strategy for Subzidized healthcare
- Fixed: Hover tank typo
- Fixed: Glassmith typo
- Fixed: 3D Modeling typo
- Fixed: Cavalry Tactics strategy entry
- Pedia: Oil Painting
- Pedia: Remote Controlled Bombers
- Pedia: Sphinx
- Pedia: Hubble telescope
- Pedia: Petra
- Pedia: Olympic Games
- Pedia: Encyclopedia
- Pedia: Treasury
- Changed: Aqueduct of Pont du Gard renamed to Pont du Gard
- Changed: Lab renamed to Alchemist's Lab
- Added: Strategy info for many techs
- Added: Pedia info for some techs
- Added: Strategy info for many buildings
- Added: Quotes for few techs


Mods
-------------
- Combined: JKP1187's Events mod

Other
-----
- Added: Wide City bar
- Added: roads get +1 bonus from Automated Traffic
- Added: Bhruic's unofficial patch
- Changed: road movement bonus decreased for Mass Transit tech
- Changed: Max World Wonders in city increased from 4 to 6
- Changed: Max Team World Wonders in city increased from 4 to 6
- Changed: Max Air units per city increased from 4 to 8

Just few things missing still.. like making new gamefont files (hate those :mad:) and add couple units/wonders. Plenty of flavor units also waiting on my harddisk, it's just so time consuming to add them and when I'm modding like on 1 or 2 evenings per week, I've decided to concentrate on other things than flavor units (for the moment). You might notice that there isn't really huge SDK changes, I tried to combine some mods at one point but had to discard those efforts - combining python between 2 huge mods is hard for person who doesn't really understand python.. so I ran into constant CTDs and had to go back to older RoM build and continue again from there without SDK changes. I'll give it another try once I have basic version properly working. :)

Current RoM 2.0 zipped size is around 96megs and unzipped at around 230megs. First beta version shouldn't be too far away now.. :)

Amazing. Can't wait to try 2.0. :wow: :thumbsup:

Ummm... Isn't Abyssinia actually just another name for Ethiopia?

I still think that Theology tech appears too early in the tech tree (compared to Philosophy, for example). Christianity is always founded something like 1000-500 BC in my monarch level games...

I think most of the non-NATO civilizations should have a T-72 replacing the M60... :)

Otherwise, excellent work. I guess my college semester is going to be ruined when the 2.0 comes out. :D

Yes, Abyssinia is Ethiopia, just older version of it.. kind of same thing with Siam and Khmer, both existed in same area, just on different times.

Meditation costs more now so Theology should appear slightly later but will probably still before 1AD. As I see it Theology is not same as Christianity, it's placeholder for that religion, and all religions do religious study to some extent.

You're right about T-72, it's used by many non-NATO civilizations (I miss good old Tank simulators, they were good games in the 80's-90's :().. there's probably other tanks/planes that aren't exactly right at the moment for some civs, it's just the same issue as with other flavor units, the lack of time. What would speed up the process is to provide info/lists of what units each nation has used/still uses so I won't have to look up for that information by myself. ;)

@Zappara

I've just gone through the long change list. Man! You've been busy!

One general remark is that this is not about tossing stuff in. It sure shows a lot of deep thinking. I am particularly pleased with the changes you made to the tech tree. I hope it would eliminate the possibility of short cuts through eras. If you're limited by the number of (and/or) required techs I think there is a variable that change this limit in the global defines file.

Can't wait to give 2.0 a trial, so just don't hold it for so long.

@Kalimakhus

Most of tech tree changes are based on feedback and I hope it's more balanced now and that most loopholes are gone with the adjustments I made - it's not perfect yet though, particularly medieval time techs cause me this "itch" to add more stuff there and future times could have more techs but that would mean that I need to come up with things to fill those techs. Changing future techs would mean that I would have to redo whole era from scratch as some of the techs I want to add are just in between modern era and future era - that would be many modding hours.

Just finished adding Raw Commerce component, now missing couple religious wonders (added few already) and fonts.. I'll try to battle with font files tomorrow and hope that changing them goes smoothly this time :D

this is awsome news take your time it will be worth the wait

@Zappara

I agree that Medieval era needs to be longer. This era in particular seems to pass away quite fast. This is particularly frustrating because RoM has numerous Medieval units that one likes to use.

About font files, as you are going to add new religions' icons it may give you some trouble. It might help if you add icons to the attached file. It is the same RoM current file with one change. The bottom line of icons was repeated shifting the empty row underneath one cell down. This trick I got from FfH and it worked for me when I applied it to Overlord2 fonts file.

Perhaps the T-55 with respective graphics should also be added?

That would go with the Mongol, Khmer, Mali, Maya and perhaps with Sumerian, Assyrian and Babylonian civilizations? (T-72 might go with those as well, and it is also used by Peru, so that should be added to the Inca arsenal. India has also many T-72's, and no Pattons!) T-55 would also fill the missing tank for Chinese civilization under the name "Type 59" or "Type 69".

T-34/85 should be also available for the Civilizations listed above instead of the generic Sherman, excluding Mali, Inca and Maya. Also, BT-2 could be used by the Mongolians instead of the standard light tank. IS-2m heavy tanks were also used by China, and would be the tank of choice for the Mongols instead of the M26.

It would be extremely neat, if there would be the Type 95 Ha-Go available for Japan as light tank, and Type 97 Chi-Ha (or Shinhoto Chi-Ha) as medium tank. These vehicles were also used by Thailand (Siam) in their respective roles.

FT-17/18 was during its time perhaps the most widely exported and license built armoured vehicle in the world. (Even used by Japan for a time before World War II in Asia.)

R-35 was also widely exported and perhaps it should be used with Civs that were the colonies of France during the Industrial/Modern Age, at least.

And MiG is spelled "MiG"! (Mikoyan-Gurevich)

MiG-21 should be the jet fighter for China, Mongolia, Sumeria, Babylonia, Arabia, Assyria and Khmer at least, alongside Russia.

Umm... and there is a great selection of Civ-specific Infantry/Riflemen graphics used in the Snafusmith's Modern Warfare-mod (alongside with his other stunning real-world units). Perhaps you should consult him and use some of his excellent graphics for boosting up atmosphere in the RoM! :cool:

If there is still something left unclear, please feel free to ask. :goodjob:

@Zappara

I agree that Medieval era needs to be longer. This era in particular seems to pass away quite fast. This is particularly frustrating because RoM has numerous Medieval units that one likes to use.

About font files, as you are going to add new religions' icons it may give you some trouble. It might help if you add icons to the attached file. It is the same RoM current file with one change. The bottom line of icons was repeated shifting the empty row underneath one cell down. This trick I got from FfH and it worked for me when I applied it to Overlord2 fonts file.
I managed to make working gamefont.tga file, only gamefont_75.tga is giving me headache now - for some unknown reason when religion appears in city, the game puts one resource icon above citybar. Tested with normal RoM gamefont_75 file and it was same thing so I think I have python bug somewhere in maininterface.py...

I'll check that font file and see what the trick is, might help me in future :)

The issue you describe is caused by the GameFont.tga not the 75 one. Try my file and add your religion icons to it. It should work.

@Kalimakhus

Ok, I'll try that :)

I have two questions:

1. Is there/will there be "the Plague" as seen in Rhye's and fall?

2. Could you please include Mastery for a victory condition?
I used Mastery Victory in ViSa.

Thank you very much
P

@Preytor

No plague or any other diseases yet. I think I saw plague coded with python in Gods of Old scenario and I was actually going to check how easy it would be to combine those functions to my mod.. not high on my priority list but will check it some time soon.

No master victory option. I had it long time ago in mod's warlords version but it wasn't working correctly then so I removed it (this was about year ago).

@zappara

Cool, I hope it works.
Sounds like even more goodies would be possible than just Plague. w00t!

What a shame, I can only hope someone will fix it one day.

Space race, U.N, and others are fun, but often cut my game shorter than I hoped. I'm always having to play Conquest these days sadly.

@Preytor

Plague, Malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis.. there's some other diseases too that were quite lethal in the ancient times. Like for example when Kolumbus and fellows travelled to America they introduced some new diseases to native people there which in some cases were deadly because the native people didn't have natural biological defenses against those diseases. Been thinking that these kind of effects could be added to the game - like when you discover new continent, there would be chance to catch new disease to your empire and it would have plague like effect. I have no idea how to code such thing though.

Problem with Master Victory (was taken from Visa mod or from CCCP) was that in some cases players won the game just after few turns after the beginning of the game, their score just jumped extremely high without reason and I couldn't figure out what was causing it so I had to remove that victory option. There was some other problems as well with CCCP's new game options now that I think of it.

One thing i have noticed is that when playing, if you check out the new tech tree, it Hesitates for almost 10 seconds and then finally goes there, whereas before as soon as you clicked on it, it was there, right away? Very time consuming, cause i check it each and every time i get a new tech. (First Pic)


I know this should be in the bug thread, but i didnt want to make another entry, Also what i think are python RED words appearing alot of the time. (First and Second pic)

Those red words are from Tech conquest component, have to check if all those lines were supposed to be seen. About tech tree, because it's huge, it does take some time from your computer to calculate the cheapest way to the tech you just clicked.. nothing really can be done for it, it's how tech tree has been coded.

As a small side project, I started converting some modular BtS civs to RoM settings. Intention is to make extra civ pack for RoM which would add about 10-15 new civs. Currently I have 5 civs converted for RoM 2.0: Apache, Cherokee, Mapuche, Sioux and Toltec empires. Should have this package ready at the same time when we have fully working v2.0 ie. after bug fixes. :)

As a small side project, I started converting some modular BtS civs to RoM settings. Intention is to make extra civ pack for RoM which would add about 10-15 new civs. Currently I have 5 civs converted for RoM 2.0: Apache, Cherokee, Mapuche, Sioux and Toltec empires. Should have this package ready at the same time when we have fully working v2.0 ie. after bug fixes. :)

This sounds great, the more "Indians" the better.:p

I have all the S.American ones done also, but i havent put them on CFC yet!!:p

@strategyonly

I think most of those civ modules were made by you.. just tweaked them a bit to work with RoM ;)

@strategyonly

I think most of those civ modules were made by you.. just tweaked them a bit to work with RoM ;)

Do what ever you want with all my stuff, you know i use your stuff anyways!!!:goodjob:

Also what is the main use of your dll?

@strategyonly

Just read half of your thread about Next Fantasy War... just amazing stuff there ;) I had plans to make fantasy mod but Rise of Mankind has kept me busy for 1 year 4 months now.. never thought it would take this long to get the mod to this point :D Anyway if I'm ever going to do that fantasy mod, I might "borrow" your next fantasy war for base mod (my fantasy mod will have completely new tech tree which stops around medieval/renaissance age ie. no hi-tech stuff at all). :) I haven't even looked Fall From Heaven mods because I don't want it to affect my fantasy mod idea in any way.. though ideas are probably similar even if I didn't look it. Some years ago I modded Morrowind for couple years and you could say that I'm pretty familiar with Elderscrolls lore, plus I've read huge amount of fantasy novels past 15 years and played almost all PC rpg games so you could say I got fairly good knowledge amount what fantasy games are like... just want to make some own mods about them. :D

Main use of that DLL was to just add Bhruic's patch.. but now I found new one that allows 34civs and with up to 40 civs+colonies, included it in 2.005beta patch. I might later change to one that has more functions but if Kalimakhus is making RevolutionDCM addon for RoM2.0 I probably don't have to update DLL anymore... :)

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?

Units:
Re-name Unique French Chevalier unit to Knights Hospitaller,
Re-name Unique German Chevalier to Teutonic Knights
Re-name existing Teutonic Knight (Heavy Swordsman) to something else (Teutonic Swordsman?)

Buildings:
Remove the Glassmith's +15%C (Base Commerce Rate),

Add Pearls to the Jeweler's happy faces, remove it from the Bazaar.

Don't make the Bazaar require resources to construct, if the below is done.

New Upgradable building Path:
Bazaar->Market + Grocer ->Supermarket->Shopping District
(yes Supermarket should obsolete/trigger removal of both Grocer & Market)
Reduce Bazaar wealth bonus to 10%.
Remove Pearls from the Bazaar happy faces.
Add Fur to the Bazaar Happy Faces
Add Cotton, Spices to Forum Happy Faces
Add Spices to Forum/Market happy faces
Remove Whale.from Forum/Market Happy Faces.
Make Market/Forum require Bazaar.
Reduce Grocer/Apothecary wealth bonus to 20%.
Reduce Grocer/Apothecary to 1 Merchant citizen
Make Supermarket the following:
Allow 3 merchant citizens
40% wealth rate
+1 health
+1 happy [Silk, Cotton, Spices, Coffee, Wine] (Fur & Ivory should be obsolete by now)
+1F, +5 C

Make Shopping District do everything the supermarket can plus the Following:
additional +5 C (totals 10 just like current)
additional +5% wealth bonus.(totaling 45%)
add happy bonuses to Hit Movies & Singles (Drop Musicals)
Also drop the 20% trade route bonus

Change the Mall to Mega Mall and make it replace the shopping district
instead of the supermarket. Additional +5% wealth, +1F, And happy faces (Movies, Singles, Coffee)

(if Tea, Olives resources added include them as well to the happy/health bonuses)

Other upgradeable buliding paths
Dungeon->Jail->Correctional Facility
Sewer System->Water Treatment Plant
Theater->Opera House->Movie Theater?
Arena->Colessium->Sports Stadium

Buildings Which provide resources:
You can easily end up with a lot of these in excess. Consider limiting
their construction such as requiring 1 weapon factory per 4 factories,
1 Glassmith per 4 forges, etc.

[B]4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

Techs:
Cement (Ancient Tech, pre-masonry/pre-construction?)
Food Preservation (Ancient Tech, reqs Naturopathy & (Hunting or Fishing), reveals Salt, enables Butchery & Fisherman's Hut)
Concrete (Classical/Medieval, pre-architecture?)
Spinning Wheel (late Medieval, important for improvements to textile manufacture)
allow it to Add a Textile building, +1 Happy: (Silk, Cotton, Sheep)
Calculus (Rennasiance, in-between education & physics, enables Isacc Newton's College)
Cryptography
Brewing
Blast Furnace (post Iron Working, allows actual Cast Iron & Early Steel)

http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/Subjects.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology

5. What religions should be added?
The current (2.0) quantity is sufficient.

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?
See above.

7. What Corporations should be added?
Fabulous Fabrics (Sheep, Silk, Cotton) + culture/coin, happy faces? (Great Artist)
Burgerworld (Cow, Wheat, Potatoes, Sugar) (Great Merchant) effects?
The M.I.C. (Ammunition, Steel, Aluminum, Uranium, Oil Products) (Great Engineer/Great Spy) +prodcution bonus%, +military unit production%

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?
Don't know right now.

9. What resources & improvements could be added?
Resources:
Tobacco +1C, +3C w/ plantation. +1 Happy, obsolete w/ Ecology or Modern Healthcare
Tea, +1C, +3C w/plantation +1 Happy, +1 Health w/Grocer
Olives +1F, +3C w/ plantation, +1 Health, +1 Health w/ Grocer
Hops
Barley

Improvedments:
Paved Roads: (middle tier of roads in between early roads & railroad)
(enabled by Engineering, remove +1 road movement from Engineering)
Paved Roads give 1/3 MP (build over early unpaved 1/2 MP roads)

Terraforming in the late game? (Alter the base terrain)
Artifical Islands.

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?
Make Salt +1H, +4C w/ quarry.
In general Make salt more strategic, Wars were fought over it, so give civs a reason to.
It's main function is in food preservation which really impacts armies before the invention
of the Tin Can. Maybe possessing it can reduce army maintenace costs somehow.
Maybe make early ocean going ships require salt, to symbolism the need to preserve the crew's
food.

11. What events could be added?
Consider increaing the event frequency a little bit.(I know we can tweak it ourselves)
Fix existing events, especially quests which should be made to obsolete at the newly changed
starting Era Techs.

12. Other changes?
New Civic Category: Military Service (no particular order, not sure which techs to enable each part)
each at, though some are obvious)
(Areas of effect would be war weariness, XP Bonus, unit upkeep, m.unit production rate, ability to draft)
Tribal Warriors (default)
Trained Militia
Contract Mercenaries
Compulsory Service
Volunteer Army
Clone & Robotic Army.

Some years ago I modded Morrowind for couple years and you could say that I'm pretty familiar with Elderscrolls lore, plus I've read huge amount of fantasy novels past 15 years and played almost all PC rpg games so you could say I got fairly good knowledge amount what fantasy games are like... just want to make some own mods about them. :D
Just out of curiosuty: What Morrowind mods did you make? I have a ton of MW mods on my hard drive. My problem at the moment is that the game bogs down if I use all those mods I find essential. Morrowind is great, but it wasn't programmed for efficiency. Fortunately I can play RoM instead :)

Just out of curiosuty: What Morrowind mods did you make? I have a ton of MW mods on my hard drive. My problem at the moment is that the game bogs down if I use all those mods I find essential. Morrowind is great, but it wasn't programmed for efficiency. Fortunately I can play RoM instead :)Isle of Thumzand, Tombs Expanded, Disturb the Dead, Temperature mods and few others... Tried to mod Oblivion too but somehow that game didn't give the same "feel" for me as Morrowind did. Waiting Fallout 3 now and hope that they publish editor with it :D

New Upgradable building Path:
Bazaar->Market + Grocer ->Supermarket->Shopping District
I've thought about this before and I don't think I'm going to do that path because if you go to any decent size real life city today you'll see there bazaars, few markets, several grocers, couple supermarkets and few shopping districts so as I see they all still have uses even though the origin for some of those is ancient.


(if Tea, Olives resources added include them as well to the happy/health bonuses)I'm considering new resources still and recently I've seen some graphics available for such as cacao, apple, rubber etc. so might add them - just would have to go through lots of buildings/units/improvements and change bonus requirements etc.


Other upgradeable buliding paths
Dungeon->Jail->Correctional Facility
Sewer System->Water Treatment Plant
Theater->Opera House->Movie Theater?
Arena->Colessium->Sports Stadium
Good ideas :) Though for Theater line, I'm not sure about it because it's again same thing as with bazaar - most cities have normal Theater and Movie Theater and rarely Opera House, so maybe I should just increase cost of Opera House to make it more rare.


Buildings Which provide resources:
You can easily end up with a lot of these in excess. Consider limiting
their construction such as requiring 1 weapon factory per 4 factories,
1 Glassmith per 4 forges, etc.That's a good point :)


Techs:
Cement (Ancient Tech, pre-masonry/pre-construction?)
Food Preservation (Ancient Tech, reqs Naturopathy & (Hunting or Fishing), reveals Salt, enables Butchery & Fisherman's Hut)
Concrete (Classical/Medieval, pre-architecture?)
Spinning Wheel (late Medieval, important for improvements to textile manufacture)
allow it to Add a Textile building, +1 Happy: (Silk, Cotton, Sheep)
Calculus (Rennasiance, in-between education & physics, enables Isacc Newton's College)
Cryptography
Brewing
Blast Furnace (post Iron Working, allows actual Cast Iron & Early Steel)
Cement, concrete, brick making, cryptography, milling, mapmaking, paved roads, brewing (or distillation) and blast furnace have been on my list among with some other "missing" techs. One plan was also to add complex textile industry (more uses for dye, cotton, hemp..) but it's been hold for now since I don't think AI players could deal with it. Main problem with new techs now is that I need something to put into them, having empty techs is not good thing and for some techs I would need new resources (clay, limestone for example). I might add those when I find the "strength" to re-do whole tech tree, as that's what it's going to need and it's going to take few weeks to rebuild it (besides those techs I got plenty of other spare techs on hold that would be added at the same time ;)). Just first have to design content for techs and decide what existing things to move where and figure out tech upgrade paths.

Keep those tech suggestions coming even though I most likely are aware of most of them already (I've used countless hours digging through historical timelines). :)

Oh, one more limiting thing with techs is the game turn amount but that's not big problem as the mod is designed for longer games. :D


7. What Corporations should be added?
Fabulous Fabrics (Sheep, Silk, Cotton) + culture/coin, happy faces? (Great Artist)
Burgerworld (Cow, Wheat, Potatoes, Sugar) (Great Merchant) effects?
The M.I.C. (Ammunition, Steel, Aluminum, Uranium, Oil Products) (Great Engineer/Great Spy) +prodcution bonus%, +military unit production%
Those are ready made mod components if I recall right? Corporations are one aspect of game that I haven't gotten much into yet. Will have to edit them some day :)


Improvedments:
Paved Roads: (middle tier of roads in between early roads & railroad)
(enabled by Engineering, remove +1 road movement from Engineering)
Paved Roads give 1/3 MP (build over early unpaved 1/2 MP roads)Unfortunately it's impossible to add new route types, I would have liked to add at least 3 more road types but routes are hardcoded and were stuck with just 2 types. There was thread about it somewhere.


10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?
Make Salt +1H, +4C w/ quarry.
In general Make salt more strategic, Wars were fought over it, so give civs a reason to.
It's main function is in food preservation which really impacts armies before the invention
of the Tin Can. Maybe possessing it can reduce army maintenace costs somehow.
Maybe make early ocean going ships require salt, to symbolism the need to preserve the crew's
food.Hmm, you might be into something here.. it's true that salt business was huge. I'll have to make few changes to it :)


11. What events could be added?
Consider increaing the event frequency a little bit.(I know we can tweak it ourselves)
Fix existing events, especially quests which should be made to obsolete at the newly changed
starting Era Techs.There's been event about every 5 turns in my test games. You're saying that not high enough frequency? Since events have random factors I guess it's possible to have games without many events and some with lots of them. So far I've just added 1 of my own events (just for learning how to make them) and eventually will add more of them. I'll be going through events several more times to make adjustments, just been time issue and only modified those that needed urgent fixes to new techs/units etc.


12. Other changes?
New Civic Category: Military Service (no particular order, not sure which techs to enable each part)
each at, though some are obvious)
(Areas of effect would be war weariness, XP Bonus, unit upkeep, m.unit production rate, ability to draft)
Tribal Warriors (default)
Trained Militia
Contract Mercenaries
Compulsory Service
Volunteer Army
Clone & Robotic Army.For new civics I need vertically scrolling civic screen and that is not yet available in such format that it could be included to RoM easily. It needs SDK changes ie. new DLL and I don't think source files for it are available. I have enough civic material for 2-3 categories waiting. Basically would overhaul whole civics if I had option to add any amount of civic categories without breaking that civic option page.

Thanks for great feedback - I see you're thinking the same way as I do. ;)

I am having a bit of a problem reconciling the CIV missionary and your idea that the religions Amen-Ra and Zorocastr... don't have missionaries.

Without missionaries, if either is your state religion then you will have problems with diplomacy with other nations. Many wonders are made less effective. The Apostolic Palace for example - even though I found Amen-Ra the buildings that spread the religion seem to spread it to other nations and not mine - therefore I don't appear in the list of who to vote for :(.

The Spiral Minerit and Uni of Sankor are also less effective.

How about making Islam possible to found earlier? i.e. before gunpowder, to have the possibility of the classical Crusades/Jihads/ Holy wars.

I am having a bit of a problem reconciling the CIV missionary and your idea that the religions Amen-Ra and Zorocastr... don't have missionaries.

Without missionaries, if either is your state religion then you will have problems with diplomacy with other nations. Many wonders are made less effective. The Apostolic Palace for example - even though I found Amen-Ra the buildings that spread the religion seem to spread it to other nations and not mine - therefore I don't appear in the list of who to vote for :(.

The Spiral Minerit and Uni of Sankor are also less effective.There's couple reasons why they don't have missionarys: historically those religions didn't spread far (not globally like others), they vanished when "stronger" religions appeared in the area (christianity/islam). The tactic with those religions is that you have to build religious buildings in border cities as all religious buildings in this mod spread their own religion as well, bigger buildings have bigger effect. You'll have to use some strategies if you want to use those religions as your main religion. Remember that open borders also makes it easier to spread religions.

How about making Islam possible to found earlier? i.e. before gunpowder, to have the possibility of the classical Crusades/Jihads/ Holy wars.Now that you mention it, yes.. was supposed to move it to earlier tech but forgot it totally with all the other things I was tweaking in beta. Will have to include that change in first patch release.

Since it now founds a religion, remove Masonry from the techs you can get from popping a goodie hut. (Actually, all techs which found a religion should not be poppable IMO)

Since it now founds a religion, remove Masonry from the techs you can get from popping a goodie hut. (Actually, all techs which found a religion should not be poppable IMO)

Wow You can get a religion from a Goodie Hut?!! Wish I could get so lucky. :P

2.0 Rocks! :D

JosEPh

And what about Dale's bombardment MOD? How (when?) can I use under 2.0 version?
This MOD sooooo good that if I can't use that RoM 2.0 mens nothing to me...

@molnibalage

Kalimakhus is working on addon that will add Dale's combat mod features plus it will have few other mods combined as well (all these changes require SDK editing). He might get it ready this week or maybe next week.. patience is a virtue. ;)

For people interested in RevolutionDCM Add-On for RoM, you can get the updated version for RoM 2.0 now from here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9087

For discussion and bug reporting follow the link in my signature.

The Add-On currently has Revolution 1.4 and DCM 1.5. For any sub-components that were already added in RoM2.0 like Civ4lert and Commerce break-down, I kept the implementation that Zappara used.

More components will be added to the Add-On. On top of my list is IDW. I had just a little time for modding so Weekends are when new updates can be expected. As Zappara said "patience is a virtue".

Hope you all enjoy RoM2.0 and the Add-On.

@Kalimakhus and @zappara

Thank you thank you thank you!!

I can't wait to play with these new toys! :D

Kalimakhus,

Is/can the DCM stand alone or combined with Revolution?

I like DCM but have a real problem understanding Revolutions.

Suppose I should read more about it.

Edit: in the right thread of course! :p ;)

JosEPh

could u Zap think about changing industrious trait that it would give more hammers and remove that 50% wonder bonus? :P

or explain how to change that? :D

it could be something like every plot that gives 5 or more hammers gives one extra.

i think no-one should be given WW bonus, and creatives could have somekind of NW bonus.

@Joseph
theres nothing wrong about Revolutions mod, i think its rather cool.. ;)

The research booster wonders ( platos academy, copernicus observatory, einsteins laboratory, edisons workshop, leonardo's worskhop, etc) are all INSANELY OVERPOWERED AND BALANCE CRUSHING.

Why?

Because you can put them all in one town. I had a friend who, on Epic/standard, had something like 27,000 research PER TURN.


Basically once he got Einsteins lab ( after having built the other stuff earlier in the game, so he was still in one of those lightsabers vs muskets scenarios before that, just not as obscenely) it was all over. Computer Center etc just made it worse.

Is it possible to maybe.. NERF THE HELL out of the insanely overpowered wonders in this mod?

I want to love this, but you might as well call it Rise of the IND trait. Wonders are too epic in power in this. Way too much so.

The research booster wonders ( platos academy, copernicus observatory, einsteins laboratory, edisons workshop, leonardo's worskhop, etc) are all INSANELY OVERPOWERED AND BALANCE CRUSHING.

Why?

Because you can put them all in one town. I had a friend who, on Epic/standard, had something like 27,000 research PER TURN.


Basically once he got Einsteins lab ( after having built the other stuff earlier in the game, so he was still in one of those lightsabers vs muskets scenarios before that, just not as obscenely) it was all over. Computer Center etc just made it worse.

Is it possible to maybe.. NERF THE HELL out of the insanely overpowered wonders in this mod?

I want to love this, but you might as well call it Rise of the IND trait. Wonders are too epic in power in this. Way too much so.

THE THOUSAND NATIONS OF THE INDUSTRIOUS EMPIRE DESCEND UPON YOUR PRIMITIVE CIVILIZATION :scan:

Can someone explain to me why a Light Take requires Mechanized Warfare, Radio and Oil Products while a Tank and Heavy Tank only require Mechanized Warfare and Oil?

u are mistaking?
light tank requires Mechanized Warfare, Radio and Oil Products,
tank requires Oil Products and higher techs than radio, example radar, which needs radio etc.

are u sure ur running latest version?

@Joseph
theres nothing wrong about Revolutions mod, i think its rather cool..

I didn't say it had anything wrong, just that I have a hard time undrstanding how to handle it. :)

JosEPh

New version of the RevolutionDCM Add-On is available for download here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9087.

Thanks to Glider1's hard work the Influence Driven War component is now integrated into the Add-On. Also Revolution is updated to 1.42.

I haven't got enough time to test this thing beyond playing a number of turns and conducting an early rush (a victorious one if this should matter :) ). Your feedback is needed and much appreciated.

Remember to apply Zappara's patch if you have his extra civs pack add-on. If you don't have it, well you don't need the patch but you also miss the fun of having a great number of civs. It is especially nice to have a great variety of civs with Revolution as new Barbarian civs and Rebels can have a wider pool to be drawn from.

Hi. I really love the RevolutionDCM mod , especially now with the IDW added and i thought that maybe the Immigration Mod would complement the package nicely - in interaction with Revolutions and IDW it would really make the things much more complex and realistic (with all those ethinicities mixing etc. ).Also, Immigration was always one aspect which i really missed from Civilization-like games.

Would it be possible to add Immigration mod into the package ?

hi i have an issue i always used village/helmet/town on flatland once i research the railroad i can't build road anymore (in real life road and railroad can be in the same town) after that when the railroad is over the town i will lost 1 hammer on that plot

is this a mistake or zappara did it on porpose

thank you

@PAo_ReVoLT

Not intentional, I'll fix it in the patch. :)

Playing as New Zealand, who should be the first one to threaten me?

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/40/346346ed5.th.jpg (http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=346346ed5.jpg)

LOL.

@CMKMStephens

:lol: Friendly neighbours, eh?

Hey Zappara

Do you have an ETA on the patch yet?? Just want to know whether or not to start a new game :lol:

Nordfeldt, have patience. (Zappa has said this himself before)
I'm sure Zappara will have the patch out in a couple weeks.

Something I wanted to bring up, there appears to be a descrepancy in bonuses that certain religions bring over others, that i think RoM should address. The newer religions appear to be pretty balanced in and of themselves, seeing as they have no monastaries their temples provide acceptable bonuses across the board. But, for example, Judaism's holy city shrine gives +2 gold & +1 science per city with Judaism (which I think is a tad bit over powered), and Buddhist & Tao temples provide health in addition to the regular culture + happiness benefits. This makes certain religions the "go-to" religions, that we strive hardest for, and others not so desireable. I think all religions should be tweaked to provide benefits beyond just the standard happiness + culture to make them all equally desireable, or desireable dependent on your gaming strategy and preset victory conditions ;) The newer religions appear to be pretty balanced in and of themselves, seeing as they have no monastaries their temples provide acceptable bonuses across the board.

For example (and these are just rough ideas):

1)Judaism. The Holy City Shrine produces 2 Gold per city instead of just 1, as well as 1 science. I think this is pretty overpowered imho. Maybe we could adjust this to have the shrine produce the standard 1 gold and no science, but make the Jewish synagogue (which is naturally limited depending on number of jewish temples at a 4:1 ration) produce 2 or 3 gold. That way we still have the benefit of extra gold, but it requires the construction of synagogues.

2)Buddhism. Temples provide extra health. Looks fine to me. :)

3)Taoism. Temples provide extra health. Monastaries provide a vs.melee promotion to units from that city. Looks fine to me. :) Although, i do have some quick questions in regards to that one.. It only seems to apply to Melee units, not Archers or Siege, and i haven't played far enough ahead to see if it'll apply to Gunpowder units. Is this as intended? If so, thats fine, you might just want to edit the text for the monastery to state its only applicable to melee ;) And on another note, will the promotion still apply after the monastery goes obsolete? Thanks :)

3)Hellenism. Monastaries provide a bonus to military production. Looks fine to me. :) But again, will bonus still apply after monastaries are obsolete? And moreover, why does Hellenism have a monastary while not being able to make missionaries? :P

4) Christianity & Islam. And to a lesser extent Confucianism. Here is where I see the problem. I hardly ever strive for these religions, #1 they don't have any appriciable bonuses over, say, judaism or buddhism, and #2 (for Islam and Christianity) they are pretty far up the tech tree. The Cathedrals for each are decently balanced, but nothing special (islam & christianity get 50% culture, and confucianism 30% culter and 20% science). But again, between the 3, theres nothing special that makes me strive towards those religions. Is there something we can add to these to make them more desireable? Additional science at the holy city shrine for each city with religion? Or +science at the monastery or temple? +1 experience added to units with that religions temple or monastery? Maybe even a happiness, construction (regular or military unit), culture, or other commerce bonus to a religion building. Something, though, to make them more desireable to have and proliferate.

And discuss :D

1) Judaism will be changed. :)
3) Martial Arts promotion is set to be available only for melee units. I'm not exactly sure if units are able to get that promotion once the building has gone obsolete, but then again you can't really build melee units on industrial/modern times (except police squad).
4) Hellenic Wiseman = Hellenic Missionary so they have this unit type. The building has been named differently also as it is Hellenic Gymnasia, basically athletic school where people also learn religious values while training. I don't think they actually had any kind of monasteries for Hellenism so we have to have alternative. ;) I had few other choices for Hellenism, like Vestal Virgins which was religious group in Roman empire that served some Greek/Roman gods. Could have also added national Hellenistic wonders instead of monastery building type.
5) Christianity & Islam & Confucianism have not been changed much from original BtS versions. Christianity does get some bonus happiness, Islam & Confucianism holy cities have big bonuses. There was probably some other little changes here and there.. Oh, Islam does have new Great Wonder that works as government center ie. it reduces maintenance costs in nearby cities. For Christianity I've been toying with couple choices, allow them build more missionaries than other religions or give them 4th religious building type (church/chapel).

Is there a giant earth map adapted to RoM (i.e., resources and stuff).

@CMKMStephens

Giant Earth maps no, not yet. Rhye's Huge Earth map is included with the mod, check custom scenarios from main menus. That's pretty big map too and is set for 28 Civs and modified for Rise of Mankind settings.

With RoM resources?

Yes, it has RoM resources too

Now playing a RoM2.01 game and just finished the Hanging Gardens at 1340AD. While the benefits came in at a needed time (+ health), shouldn't this Wonder have been accomplished before Medival times? Which would mean that the Tech it's attached to should have been researched much earlier in the game like during the Classical or pre classical eras?

I personnally don't mind, but for those that like historical accuracies this one is a bit askew don't you think.

There are a couple of other Wonders that seem to have jumped around the timeline. At the moment I don't have them available. But when I can I'll post them for discussion.

Again I Love this Mod, it's the only way I play BtS anymore. And these are just some observations not gripes. Excellent work zappara.

JosEPh :) :thumbsup:

Hanging Gardens is from Dualism tech in v2.01 which is ancient era tech so you should be able to build it before year 1AD easily - in my current game it was built by some AI player around 200BC which is pretty close to original built time which was about 600BC.

While I lead in Tech in my current game I don't think I got Hanging Garden from Dualism. I maybe wrong. But I'll recheck later this afternoon. Otherwise one of the other AI should have built it long before I did.

One other thing that I would like to see is a Free Tech associated with the Great Library Wonder again. Or like CiV II acquiring a Tech with the Great library if 2 other CIVs have gotten it. Up to say Scientific Method Tech.

I realize that the Encycolpedia Wonder does what the old Great Lib did but by the time it's available you really don't get much benefit from it. At least I havn't.

JosEPh

Edit: I got Hanging Gardens from City Planning which I researched in 760 AD. I built the Gardens in 1010AD not 1340. Dualism only gives Zoarastrism.

@JosEPh_II

Make sure you installed the patch correctly. The gardens definitely require Dualism in RoM 2.01. I checked the XML file because I was afraid you may be using my Add-On and so it might be my own fault not to update the file properly.

I was afraid of that. I've had problems getting winzip to overwrite the folders/files when updating with a patch for RoM for some time now.

I've had to unzip the patches and then copy paste over the old files. Otherwise if I unzip to the Mod per zappara's instructions I get a 2nd RoM folder inside the 1st and nothing is being overwritten.

So when I started a new game for 2.01 I may in fact be playing a hybrid between 2.0 and 2.01 even though the Mod's Start screen has RoM 2.0 version number in the upper right corner. Crud! And it was turning out to be quite the game too. Even with it starting to be laggy the last 200 years, (up to 1764AD now). Huge world, 6 continents, and 10 CIVs.

I've played it hard the last 48 hrs to boot.

In 2.01 does Dualism grant access to H gardens OR is it just a prerequisite Tech and Then City Planning to be able to build it? Cause that's what I've got. Unless 2.0 only used City Planning and 2.01 then rearranged it.

I'm tired, so this is rambling, been playing for close to 8 hrs now.

JosEPh :(

Does this mod have depleting resources ? FOr example, a tank uses x amount of oil each square it travels and the oil deposit has a finite amount ?

Thanks

No, this mod doesn't have depleting/quantitative resources and probably won't have such feature any time soon.

there is no such modpack or mod addon, although there is the Fuel Unit Mod which does make some units require fuel, but the maker of that mod didnt script it that way.

Alrite, Thank you. Cheers.

Okay I did a complete reinstall of RoM2.0. Then when I tried to apply the 2.01 patch using winzip all it did has place a 2nd RoM folder inside the original. I can't get winzip to overwrite. I tried "extract files here..." and gave the path to BtS/Mods/RoM, with the above results. What am I doing wrong?

And again the Hanging Gardens are achieved from City Planning. Dualism makes NO reference to them. Dualism gives Zoarastrism(sp?) only. And City Planning reguires Writing as a prereq..

So am I again playing just 2.0 and not 2.01?

Can anyone make an Installer to help dummies like me? Please?!

JosEPh

Ps. kalimakhus I don't have your add-on installed either. But thanks for your suggestion.

Just cut the 2nd RoM folder and paste it to Mods folder, it should then overwrite the files.

I've always wondered, why is there almost nothing (bar wonders) to represent death in Civ4? No tombs/cemetaries/etc despite being such an integral part of human experience. I mean, every society has burial styles and types.

Just cut the 2nd RoM folder and paste it to Mods folder, it should then overwrite the files.


Okay just did that and it overwrote.

Guess I'll need to start another New game to see what changed.

Thank you for your patience with an "old and slow...........watch out!" TBS'er.:blush:

JosEPh :)

Is there something special you did about the resources, Olives tobacco and the swamp, i tried removing the <!-- and --> on just the olives and it still crashed to desktop??
Then i deleted everything below olives and just redid them by themselves after steel and still crash??"

I was testing yesterday if I could add new resources and tried also enabling Olives. After enabling it all text was messed up in civilopedia and game seems to read incorrectly gamefont files. Odd thing is that icon for Olives is in gamefont file already and the game works fine when Olives is not enabled. I tried placing Olives in different spots to see if order would have effect but that didn't help, pedia was every time messed up. It's like enabling one more gamefont index for resources, makes the game jump over one row of icons after resources. Tried to look through BtS python files and DLL files to find where it's defined how to read gamefont files but couldn't find anything about it.

Seems like there's limit how many resources you can have (48). :(

Seems like there's limit how many resources you can have (48). :(

I dont think so, i just counted FfH2 and they have 52^? So i tried even just adding olives above steel, even with the other olives below still marked with the <!-- and it still crashes??:blush:

I found a way to get rid of those errors and successfully added 2 new resources. Trick was to double one line of icons from gamefont file that comes after resources (those faces etc.). No idea why the game jumps over of one row of icon slots..

way to go Zap.. :P

now put some new resources.. ;)

I found a way to get rid of those errors and successfully added 2 new resources. Trick was to double one line of icons from gamefont file that comes after resources (those faces etc.). No idea why the game jumps over of one row of icon slots..

Well i used a different font from another mod and he has over 50^ also, ingame and even with that font used when i put olives ingame, the game still crashes?:rolleyes: I used Marnz's.

I'll have to see what happens when I add couple more resources.. it's annoying when the game crashes during start up at gamefont section without any error messages and you have no idea why it happened.. all you got is a clue that there's something wrong with icons :lol:

Edit: Can't believe how many times I've edited again those gamefont files past couple days and still haven't got those new religion icons working *sigh* I think during this summer's Midsummer festival I print huge pile of Civ gamefont files to papers and burn them all in the huge bonfires we have in that festival!!! :devil:

I'll have to see what happens when I add couple more resources.. it's annoying when the game crashes during start up at gamefont section without any error messages and you have no idea why it happened.. all you got is a clue that there's something wrong with icons :lol:

YES darn it!! Also i talked to someone from WoC and they have over 60 listed on their's?


Edit: Can't believe how many times I've edited again those gamefont files past couple days and still haven't got those new religion icons working *sigh* I think during this summer's Midsummer festival I print huge pile of Civ gamefont files to papers and burn them all in the huge bonfires we have in that festival!!! :devil:

That was the main reason i used Marnz's font because of the religion icons they work great with his font.

@strategyonly

Yes, I've seen WoC's font and seems they re-arranged the whole font files, resource list is last thing in their font file.

Anyway, progress goes smoothly now, 4 resources added without problems :p I just hope I don't have to adjust PlotLSystem much for the new resources.. that's another annoying file to edit. And there's new Ethnic citystyles mod released recently, if I merge that then I would have to edit PlotLSystem and CityLsystem files...

I've always wondered, why is there almost nothing (bar wonders) to represent death in Civ4? No tombs/cemetaries/etc despite being such an integral part of human experience. I mean, every society has burial styles and types.

He has a good point. Why not some +health cemetaries? Disposing of the dead has always been high on the list of cultural priorities.

"Burial Mound" +1 health available at Ritualism, double production speed for Spiritual leaders and not expensive ( should be cheap in fact.. like 30-40 hammers. might help offset playing a non-expansionistic civ unlucky enough to start in jungle, what with that +2 sickness from depotism plus jungle meaning 1pop stagnation sometimes).

"Mass Graves" +4 health but -1 happy, available from some medieval tech.. maybe feudalism. Obsolete with oh lets say.. liberalism or humanism.

"Necropolis" +5 health -2 happy, requires Architecture and Feudalism, and that a Courthouse be present in the city.

"Crematorium" +3 health, available at.. hrm. Maybe Steel ( you have to really get a hot hot fire going to turn somebody to ash, so needing Coal might make sense)

"Cryonics Facility" buildable at Medicine, +5 health and obsoletes Necropolis, but -10% wealth in the city.

"Lazarus Hospital" Buildable at Gene Manipulation at... in the future era, requires Cryonics Facility in city.. maybe gives a sizable sudden population boost to the city ala the hanging gardens?

Maybe you can include Morge too.

every game it happens in, this happens..


illyrian pirates event just happens way way too early. There's no way to prepare for it when by turn 100 on Marathon you have a stack of Triremes in your face when you're lucky to have your own religion much less your own stack of Triremes to fight these guys. If it happens to an AI civ, that AI always gets stuck in (far) last place on the power chart, if it happens to me, I just give up.

At least make them Galleys or something, not trireme

He has a good point. Why not some +health cemetaries? Disposing of the dead has always been high on the list of cultural priorities.

"Burial Mound" +1 health available at Ritualism, double production speed for Spiritual leaders and not expensive ( should be cheap in fact.. like 30-40 hammers. might help offset playing a non-expansionistic civ unlucky enough to start in jungle, what with that +2 sickness from depotism plus jungle meaning 1pop stagnation sometimes).

"Mass Graves" +4 health but -1 happy, available from some medieval tech.. maybe feudalism. Obsolete with oh lets say.. liberalism or humanism.

"Necropolis" +5 health -2 happy, requires Architecture and Feudalism, and that a Courthouse be present in the city.

"Crematorium" +3 health, available at.. hrm. Maybe Steel ( you have to really get a hot hot fire going to turn somebody to ash, so needing Coal might make sense)

"Cryonics Facility" buildable at Medicine, +5 health and obsoletes Necropolis, but -10% wealth in the city.

"Lazarus Hospital" Buildable at Gene Manipulation at... in the future era, requires Cryonics Facility in city.. maybe gives a sizable sudden population boost to the city ala the hanging gardens?

Good suggestions, but the health bonuses are a bit too hefty I think, considering the number of health promoting buildings/wonders/resources already. I don't know if mass graves should be included either... not exactly an achievement in human civilization :ar15: :run:

Perhaps an "Arlington cemetary" World Wonder instead? Or some other kind of war veteran cemetary, with 1+ happiness bonus and 1+ health bonus (for the park effect ;))

A war veterency cemetary perhaps would cater to war wariness?

Perhaps whatever graves can add as a population counterweight. If you have ceremonial burial such as grave fields or necropolii, it would naturally take up space and perhaps produce a slight drain on food (lost productive fields) and money (maintenence cost) in return for health (maybe happiness). A necropolis should also generate culture (given Egypts dead-centric culture). Other types like mass graves and crematoriums less so as they make 'better' use of space.

This of course adds to the ever increasing health and happiness explosion, but I guess we just need to come up with some counterweights for those. Probably reducing their effects across the board.

And for something completely different, here are some other ideas:

- A Wonder relocation event a la Temple of Abu Simbel. A very expensive event where you either 'move' the wonder to a new location or lose it...

- Any city with wonders in it that gets raized, the tile should become a 'ruins' temple.

Good suggestions, but the health bonuses are a bit too hefty I think, considering the number of health promoting buildings/wonders/resources already. I don't know if mass graves should be included either... not exactly an achievement in human civilization :ar15: :run:

Perhaps an "Arlington cemetary" World Wonder instead? Or some other kind of war veteran cemetary, with 1+ happiness bonus and 1+ health bonus (for the park effect ;))

Eh, there's a massive health deficit in ROM versus food income. you gain more food faster than you gain health, no question about it. Additionally, in the modern era you get a huge number of health penalties from structures and resources like oil. (many techs improving farms, oceans etc.. and lets not forget skyscrapers and food processing plants ok? or the +25% food from beaurocracy)

ROM could use more health.



Also, you really should nerf the Sillicon Valley. +25% everything civ wide is /win

which of course is really /lose for the fun

Version 2.1 progress so far:

Python
------
- Fixed: zCivics cannotDoCivic function was in wrong spot in CvGameUtils.py (luckily this wasn't used yet)
- Fixed: GameUtils.py when AI player decides to build Inquisitor
- Disabled: some obsolete code religion block from CvScreensInterface.py (was part of Limited Religion mod component)
- Added: New Military Advisor screen component
- Changed: Illyrian Pirates event checks for War Galleys


Units
-----
- Added: Rocket Artillery unit, req. Composites
- Added: Medic, req. Battlefield Medicine, starts with Medic I and Heal promotions
- Added: Special Forces, uses Navy Seal graphics
- Added: Police Squad icon
- Changed: Light Artillery no longer upgrade to mobile artillery, stays always as cheaper artillery option for late eras (for new civs), icon added
- Changed: Mobile Artillery moved to Logistics, requires Artillery & Radio, Oil bonus requirement changed to Oil Products, upgrades to Rocket Artillery
- Changed: Transport Helicopter no longer upgrade to AH64 (which doesn't have transport capabilities), now only defensive unit, -50% bonus against ships, flanking strikes removed since it's now only defensive
- Changed: Navy Seal uses now new American Marine graphics
- Changed: AH64 helicopter has gained flanking strike against Rocket Artillery, -50% bonus against ships
- Changed: Gunship -50% bonus against ships
- Changed: Inquisitor isn't National unit anymore so there's no limit how many player can build them (changed due to python coding)
- Fixed: Transport Helicopter strategy and pedia entries were missing
- Changed: All Wheeled units require now vulcanized Rubber or Synthetic Rubber
- Changed: Hi-Tech APC requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber
- Changed ACV requires requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber
- Changed: ACV SAM requires requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber

Techs
-----
- Added: Battlefield Medicine, req. Nationalism and Chemistry
- Changed: composites requires now Organic Chemistry
- changed: Space Flight requires now Modern Physics
- Changed: Submarine Warfare requires now Military Science
- Changed: Medicine requires now Battlefield Medicine, no longer require Optics (was already included in pre-reqs)

Buildings
---------
- Added: Anti-Missile Batteries
- Added: Radar Station
- Added: Rubber Factory
- Added: Chemical Plant
- Changed: Oil refinery requires river instead of coastal plot. This helps to build units that require Oil Products on maps where seas aren't present.
- Changed: Weapon Factory AI weight value increased from 10 to 100
- Changed: Bunker air defense decreased from 50% to 20%
- Changed: Grocer gives +1 health from Apple, -1 health from tobacco and +1 happiness from Tobacco
- Changed: Apothecary gives +1 health from Apple, -1 health from tobacco and +1 happiness from Tobacco
- Changed: Supermarket gives -2 health from Tobacco and +1 happiness form Tobacco
- Changed: American mall gives -2 health from Tobacco and +1 happiness form Tobacco
- Changed: Market gives +1 happiness from Olives
- Changed: Granary gives +1 health from Potato
- Changed: Terrace gives +1 health from Potato

Improvements
------------
- Changed: Cottage, Hamlet, Village and Town +1 food (since the food cost per population is 3 instead of BtS default 2, AI didn't want to build these due to lack of food)
- Changed: Watermill initial bonus is now +1 food +1 hammer
- Changed: Forest Preserve gets bonus from techs Ecology, Ecological engineering and Sentient Earth

Civics
------
- Changed: Corporatism no longer give +1 free specialist per city
- Changed: Caste System no longer give unlimited artist/merchant/scientist
- Changed: State Property gets now +1 espionage per specialist
- Changed: Hereditary rule no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Police State no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Vassalage no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Bureaucracy no longer give food bonus
- changed: Free Speech no longer give food bonus from Towns, gives now +1 hammer from Town and village
- Changed: Mercantilism gives +2 gold from Plantation improvement
- Changed: Free market gives now +1 trade routes in every city, +1 gold from plantation improvement
- Changed: Industrialism gets +1 happiness from Factory and Manufacturing Plant
- Changed: Global Market no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Private Healthcare gives now +2 health in every city and +1 health from Doctor's office
- Changed: Government funded healthcare now gives +3 health in every city and +1 health from Doctor's office and Hospital

Wonders
-------
- Added: Palace of Potala graphics and icon
- Changed: Pyramid of the Magician no longer add +1 gold for all state religion buildings (wasn't restricted to Nagualism), gets +50% trade route bonus in this city
- Changed: The Temple of Heaven no longer give +1 culture from all state religion buildings, gives now +25% culture in all cities
- Changed: Pont du Gard gives now +2 area health instead of +1
- Changed: Isaac Newton's College, Leonardo's Workshop and Copernicus Observatory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Edison's Workshop and Einstein's laboratory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Marco Polo's Embassy no longer allow all economic civics, instead it gives +3 trade routes in city and +1 base gold from all merchant specialists
- Fixed: King Richard's Crusade had wrong icon and building graphics

Resources
---------
- Added: Olives
- Added: Tobacco
- Added: Apple
- Added: Rubber
- Added: Vulcanized Rubber
- Added: Synthetic Rubber

Events
------
- Changed: Illyrian Pirates use War Galleys instead of Triremes.
- Changed: Taliban event spawns Guerrillas instead of Infantry units (more dangerous now)

Game settings
-------------
- Changed: Max experience after unit upgraded increased from 10 to 16
- Changed: Max Great wonders per city decreased from 6 to 4 (back to original RoM default setting)

Nerfbat has hit things as you can see from the list... :lol: Removing most of the food bonuses from Civic options should limit city growth a lot which of course affects everything else. Building cottages should be 'good choice' now too. Same with Watermills, I think I turned them now to be the number 1 choice for river plots.

These are not final changes for next patches.. still working on it later this week and maybe next week too. ;)

"- Changed: Isaac Newton's College, Leonardo's Workshop and Copernicus Observatory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Edison's Workshop and Einstein's laboratory can't be built in same city"

NO NO.. I dont really like those, as i like to stack every same type of wonders i can get in the same city, yes i have removed that wonders per city limit..

if those changes are in patch, u'll have to told me how to remove them.. :P

everything else:
great work, i may not like them all, but i'll manage.. ;)

@Dewion

Limiting those Wonders is done in GameUtils.py -file. All of them are commented so it should be easy for you to edit that file if you want to remove that limit. :) Stacking those wonders into single city is too powerful as has been pointed out so I added this limitation to them. Besides, one RoM feature is to make Wonders scatter more to mimic bit more real life history ;)

easy to u say so, but i dont know anything about those py-files, but i'll try after that patch.. :D

yea, i know but i just dont like those limiting effects..

btw, i cant finish any RoM game if u keep patching it all the time.. :P
i playing that snail speed and it is rather slow, but i like it, it gives more movement to units..
speaking of units, how about making military units cheaper to product, but techs and buildings little slower, that would mean massive armies, even at ancient era and buildings would be huge investment of time..
just a thought.. ;)

I try to keep some weeks between patches so that everyone can finish up at least one game on current version. Though snail speed is quite slow.. takes ages to finish up that game ;)

"Though snail speed is quite slow.. takes ages to finish up that game"

thats why i love it.. :D

Zappara,

only one player had a complaint about the combination of the science wonders. I like them the way they are in 2.0 and 2.1.

Besides , this mod is excellent.

"- Changed: Isaac Newton's College, Leonardo's Workshop and Copernicus Observatory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Edison's Workshop and Einstein's laboratory can't be built in same city"

NO NO.. I dont really like those, as i like to stack every same type of wonders i can get in the same city, yes i have removed that wonders per city limit..

if those changes are in patch, u'll have to told me how to remove them.. :P

everything else:
great work, i may not like them all, but i'll manage.. ;)

Your cries sound like "I dont like an interesting and challenging game and just play civ for the sake of a hoarder's ego trip" and I mock you for it!

What sane, rational reason do you have for wanting to build every wonder in one ultracity anyways? Sounds like you should be playing with OneCityChallenge turned on in options rather than playing an Empire building game.

Great modification, I'm not even sure it's enough, I'll find out when 2.1 is out.. thank you for it. I ran those changes past my friends and they approve also.

easy to u say so, but i dont know anything about those py-files, but i'll try after that patch.. :D

yea, i know but i just dont like those limiting effects..

btw, i cant finish any RoM game if u keep patching it all the time.. :P
i playing that snail speed and it is rather slow, but i like it, it gives more movement to units..
speaking of units, how about making military units cheaper to product, but techs and buildings little slower, that would mean massive armies, even at ancient era and buildings would be huge investment of time..
just a thought.. ;)

I already get this on Marathon speed. Units take 2-3 turns to crank out and buildings frequently more than 20 ( cheapies aside like granaries or lighthouses)

feedbackwise, after playing for a long time last night I kind of see a pattern

a: the AI doesnt seem to like building research structures as much as a player would. Might be why they always fall behind (sometimes by a lot) on research compared to players when no other factor is introduced (noble). Might it be wise to increase the AI weight given to these buildings?

b: The AI has some strange tech path preferences. They will really pay out the nose for Dualism if you have that first, even though they will get nothing out of it. They also seem to think Oil Painting and Heraldry are divine. Observed over the course of four games, they always tech the same way to get these.

c: AI gets really lost in later game techwise. Like they completely ignore Economics for the longest time, advancing much further down other tech lines ( oil painting, always...).

Also, shouldnt the edison workshop not be allowed in the same city with the newton lab and such? You could still quite easily stack Newtons+Edisons, they're not even far apart in the tech tree and you can go a long time without obsoleting newtons... and if you dont want to, you really never have to obsolete Edisons at all. (magnetic levitation is an easily skippable tech for the most part).

Did you take the +25% universal wealth off of Free Market?


also..


Please consider removing the "penalty for civs without X" aspects of government healthcare/emancipation or change how these effects work. I know I personally have the damnedest time ever trying to use Subsidized Healthcare or to use Contracting because the moment I try, every city in my empire gets -12 happy from "we demand gov HC!" etc. The result is having to run my culture percentage so high that any efficiencies gained from these civics are completely lost.

I've found a bug on RoM 2.0: when I try to talk with Mehmet II (it says Mehmed II) the whole model save for the eyes is completely red. Anyway, very good mod, I hope that you can polish it a bit!

Version 2.1 progress so far:
While you're at it doing all those changes, here are some balancing suggestions. In general, I feel that there are two many happiness providers.

A small disclaimer: I haven't looked at the cost of these buildings.

Market: Can you make it give more money (say +5%) instead of happiness with each of those resources? If you do that then the standard amount it gives should be 10% instead of 20%. If you can't do it, then consider making it give just one happy face.
Bazaar: Same thing, +10% basic, +5% for each resource.

Same thing for Mall: Change happiness bonus for Hits to money, perhaps also reduce the standard +20% to 15%.
Shopping District: Same as mall. It gives 10 commerce (not a percentage) - is that a mistake?
Supermarket: Same thing - but for Coffee. Maybe some of your new resources fit the bill here as well?

Same thing for Jewellery: Change it to +5% with +5% for each of Gems, Gold, Silver (or 0% basic plus 5% or 10% for each - it does require at least one of them). Alternatively, make it give only one happy face and perhaps also reduce it to +10%. It is overpowered as it is. A third suggestion: Change it to three buildings: Goldsmith, Silversmith, Jewellery, each depending on Gold/Silver/Gems (as appropriate), each giving +10% money and (maybe) +1 happy.

Why does Jewish temple give +2 culture while Confucian Temple gives +1? Hmm, all those temples are somewhat different. There may be a reason, but it does look a bit unbalancing.

Sauna replaces Bath House. Bath House gives 0 happy, Sauna gives +2(!?)

School gives +1 happy per 20% science rate. How long since you have been to school? :) Seriously, that and the +happy for culture rate are quite unnecessary.

Sewer gives no unhealth from buildings. That's VERY powerful. +10 health would be less powerful. Or maybe just remove one unhealth from each building, if that's possible.
An aside: I thinmk there's a civic that does the same. It is very powerful as well. But there are so many civics to choose from that it may not matter so much.

Sweat Lodge gives 2 happy more than Hospital. One seems to be enough.

Why does Ceremonial Altar give +1 happy with Hemp? +1 with Sacrifice Cult is probably enough. It's good that it goes obsolete eventually, it's usually a good buy/build.

Chorten (replaces Monument): +2 Happy(!?). Iøm sure you get the drift by now.
Hamman (replaces Aqueduct): Same thing.

Port, Commercial Port, International Port: Can you make it increase trade route yield with those resources instead of giving happiness? Or just give more money? The usual 5% is good. And also decrease the basic trade route bonus a bit. And I think CuteUnits idea of imposing a food penalty is good, but I'd go for a fixed penalty, not -1 per tile.

I may have missed some stuff, but I'm sure you get the trend. And I most likely have missed some buildings that are special to some civs and derived form those I mentioned above.

only one player had a complaint about the combination of the science wonders. I like them the way they are in 2.0 and 2.1.AI players seem to fall behind in tech race since they lack the "intelligence" to stack up science wonders with same efficiency as human player. With limiting wonder amounts to prevent players creating super cities I felt that it was necessary to put limits where you can build science wonders because human player can plan better where to build what with given wonder amount limit.

a: the AI doesnt seem to like building research structures as much as a player would. Might be why they always fall behind (sometimes by a lot) on research compared to players when no other factor is introduced (noble). Might it be wise to increase the AI weight given to these buildings?

b: The AI has some strange tech path preferences. They will really pay out the nose for Dualism if you have that first, even though they will get nothing out of it. They also seem to think Oil Painting and Heraldry are divine. Observed over the course of four games, they always tech the same way to get these.

c: AI gets really lost in later game techwise. Like they completely ignore Economics for the longest time, advancing much further down other tech lines ( oil painting, always...).
a) I recently saw the build order which AI uses to choose which buildings it wants to build. Seems AI weight and flavors are last thing in that list, basically when it gets to that point, it already has chosen what building type it wants to build and flavor only decides which one of the buildings with same kind of modifiers (or something like that). Didn't bookmark that thread where this was mentioned so got to find it again.

b) The reason why AI wants Oil Painting is probably Leonardo's Workshop since it grants 2 free techs.. not sure why it wants those others so badly.

c) I'm fine tuning tech tree little by little - clicking tech on tech tree, see what it requires to reach it and then checking if there's some techs that should be also pre-reqs for it. I'll have to check Economics and all that is related to it...

Also, shouldnt the edison workshop not be allowed in the same city with the newton lab and such? You could still quite easily stack Newtons+Edisons, they're not even far apart in the tech tree and you can go a long time without obsoleting newtons... and if you dont want to, you really never have to obsolete Edisons at all. (magnetic levitation is an easily skippable tech for the most part).

Did you take the +25% universal wealth off of Free Market?

Please consider removing the "penalty for civs without X" aspects of government healthcare/emancipation or change how these effects work. I know I personally have the damnedest time ever trying to use Subsidized Healthcare or to use Contracting because the moment I try, every city in my empire gets -12 happy from "we demand gov HC!" etc. The result is having to run my culture percentage so high that any efficiencies gained from these civics are completely lost.I "grouped" those science wonders ie. renaissance wonders are one group and industrial wonders another group. I purposely left it to still possibly have 2 science wonders in same city from those eras. Plus it's easier to manage 2 small groups in python than 1 big group - the possible combinations... 3*2 checks or 5*4 checks... :rolleyes:

For Free Market the choice was to remove that wealth bonus or to reduce trade routes by 1 - so I chose trade routes there.

Government Healthcare + emancipation, now there's 2 civics that will be changed but for now I've "skipped" changing that penalty check (change for these has been requested long time ago first time :D) - It might be just enough to change smaller values for that penalty but I need to find some time to study how this effect actually works. If I have to remove that penalty, I need alternative ways to cause angriness to balance out all the happiness you get from buildings/resources.

Sauna replaces Bath House. Bath House gives 0 happy, Sauna gives +2(!?)You should see when we Finns go to sauna! It makes us happy! :lol:

About school - your parents were happy that you got some education, weren't they? ;)

About the Civ specific UUs, I didn't design them, they were originally made by other modders and I didn't touch their effects. So you should be asking those questions from those people who made those Civs - in most cases Civ 4 Gold team.

I don't think it's possible to give gold instead of happiness from resources in building xml tags - there's only tags for bonus health and happiness changes.

The talk about that there is too much happiness in RoM due to the many buildings and resources is rather theoretical IMO. First of all happiness in RoM comes mainly from buildings. You don't simply improve a resource and connect it to get a happy face in all your cities. So happy faces actually cost you in RoM.

Your cities grow very fast. There is a food boom around the industrial era and with colonists and pioneers your cities already start at 3 and 4 pop. In the same time techs start to obsolete buildings that kept your people happy for centuries.

You shouldn't and you can't build every building in every city. So practically stacking happiness buildings in every city is impossible.

Happiness is only one factor in a complicated game so it is enough challenge as it is now. I don't like it to be too easy that you don't need to look at it but I wouldn't like it to become a nightmare that hampers my growing empire in the time when I move into finishing the game.

PS. People who also have RevolutionDCM will know how ugly it may get if happiness got out of control.

I've found a bug on RoM 2.0: when I try to talk with Mehmet II (it says Mehmed II) the whole model save for the eyes is completely red. Anyway, very good mod, I hope that you can polish it a bit!
Sounds like there's textures missing, have to check it out.

Just a quick suggestion. Something that occurred to me the other day. We have the "Weapons Factory" which produces the resource "Ammunition". For arguments sake, since when do weapons factories produce ammunition? ;) Why not just do a quick rename to "Ordinance Factory". Sounds better a bit better in my opinion :)

Just a quick suggestion. Something that occurred to me the other day. We have the "Weapons Factory" which produces the resource "Ammunition". For arguments sake, since when do weapons factories produce ammunition? ;) Why not just do a quick rename to "Ordinance Factory". Sounds better a bit better in my opinion :)

My soldiers run around stabbing people with bullets, what are your doing?

The more civilizations run gov hc or emancipation the larger the frown count you get for not doing so, somehow modified by the size of your city. -12 happy wasnt an exagerration.

+25% global wealth is rather hugenourmous. Dunno if just losing one trade route will take me back from earning 200 gold per turn for changing to that civic.

No way to make the AI show more love to libraries universities laboratories accelerators schools etc etc?

I find it's a constant battle to keep the red faces under control. So reducing happiness is not something I would endorse.

Contracting and Gov HC can be/are a royal pain, maybe they're supposed to? Or Not?

Why are the learning Civics so costly? +7 gold a turn to change from Ignorance to apprentice? Yeow! And each successive step is very costly. Military with the -25 to science I never use. I'll stay at Ignorance before I'll use Military. And food must be abundant too.

And Hereditary Rule is a bust for me, I skip it any more like the plaque and head for Majority Rule. The negatives to HRule are a huge hurdle to jump over IMHO.

As for Oil Painting and the AI they head there for the same reason as I do, for Leonardo's Workshop and the 2 Free Techs. It's a player/AI Race, like in CiV II for the Great Library was. Which I like.

Just some of my observations.

This is Still the Beast (BEST) Mod.

JosEPh :)

Why are the learning Civics so costly? +7 gold a turn to change from Ignorance to apprentice? Yeow! And each successive step is very costly. Military with the -25 to science I never use. I'll stay at Ignorance before I'll use Military. And food must be abundant too.

Same here, i have never ever used Military for the damage it does to my science level.

And Hereditary Rule is a bust for me, I skip it any more like the plaque and head for Majority Rule. The negatives to HRule are a huge hurdle to jump over IMHO.

Another similarity to me. I make a beeline for Majority Rule as quickly as I can, and only pay Hereditary Rule scant attention, if that.

This is Still the Beast (BEST) Mod.

Doesn't this go without saying?? ;)

No way to make the AI show more love to libraries universities laboratories accelerators schools etc etc?Take a look inside CvCityAI.cpp file, that file defines how AI chooses production... it's massively complex operation, I tried to understand some pieces of it but only got headache. So for now I'll just have to try different values for AI weight and for flavors...

@JosEPh_II

I think Apprentice has low upkeep or was it medium.. anyway 7 gold is not much if your economy is well balanced. ;) I've used Military Training quite often, it does limit growth/science but really boosts your empire's military production and extra experience is needed. Conquering cities boosts your research too - I think it as a war time civic option and you got to be warmonger if you intend to use this Civic (or you are scrambling under enemy attack and lack defense units). :)

Version 2.1 work in progress:

Python
------
- Fixed: zCivics cannotDoCivic function was in wrong spot in CvGameUtils.py (luckily this wasn't used yet)
- Fixed: GameUtils.py when AI player decides to build Inquisitor
- Disabled: some obsolete code religion block from CvScreensInterface.py (was part of Limited Religion mod component)
- Added: New Military Advisor screen component
- Changed: Illyrian Pirates event checks for War Galleys


Units
-----
- Added: Rocket Artillery unit, req. Composites
- Added: Medic, req. Battlefield Medicine, starts with Medic I and Heal promotions
- Added: Special Forces, uses Navy Seal graphics
- Added: Police Squad icon
- Added: Special Infantry icon
- Added: Modern Grenadier icon
- Added: Elephant Rider icon
- Added: Early Destroyer icon
- Added: Battlecruiser icon
- Added: SR71 icon
- Changed: Light Artillery no longer upgrade to mobile artillery, stays always as cheaper artillery option for late eras (for new civs), icon added
- Changed: Mobile Artillery moved to Logistics, requires Artillery & Radio, Oil bonus requirement changed to Oil Products, upgrades to Rocket Artillery
- Changed: Transport Helicopter no longer upgrade to AH64 (which doesn't have transport capabilities), now only defensive unit, -50% bonus against ships, flanking strikes removed since it's now only defensive
- Changed: Navy Seal uses now new American Marine graphics
- Changed: AH64 helicopter has gained flanking strike against Rocket Artillery, -50% bonus against ships
- Changed: Gunship -50% bonus against ships
- Changed: Inquisitor isn't National unit anymore so there's no limit how many player can build them
- Fixed: Transport Helicopter strategy and pedia entries were missing
- Changed: All Wheeled units require now vulcanized Rubber or Synthetic Rubber
- Changed: Hi-Tech APC requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber
- Changed ACV requires requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber
- Changed: ACV SAM requires requires vulcanized rubber or synthetic rubber

Techs
-----
- Added: Battlefield Medicine, req. Nationalism and Chemistry
- Changed: composites requires now Organic Chemistry
- changed: Space Flight requires now Modern Physics
- Changed: Submarine Warfare requires now Military Science
- Changed: Medicine requires now Battlefield Medicine, no longer require Optics (was already included in pre-reqs)

Buildings
---------
- Added: Anti-Missile Batteries
- Added: Radar Station
- Added: Rubber Factory
- Added: Chemical Plant
- Added: Slave Market, requires Slavery civic to be active before can be built
- Added: Manor, requires Vassalage civic
- Added: Agora, requires Majority Rule civic
- Added: Irrigation Canals
- Added: River Port
- Added: New icon for Opera House
- Added: Townclock graphics
- Added: Sewer system graphics
- Added: School graphics
- Added: Meeting Hall graphics
- Changed: Oil refinery requires river instead of coastal plot. This helps to build units that require Oil Products on maps where seas aren't present.
- Changed: Weapon Factory AI weight value increased from 10 to 100
- Changed: Bunker air defense decreased from 50% to 20%
- Changed: Grocer gives +1 health from Apple, -1 health from tobacco and +1 happiness from Tobacco
- Changed: Apothecary gives +1 health from Apple, -1 health from tobacco and +1 happiness from Tobacco
- Changed: Supermarket gives -2 health from Tobacco and +1 happiness form Tobacco
- Changed: American mall gives -2 health from Tobacco and +1 happiness form Tobacco
- Changed: Market gives +1 happiness from Olives
- Changed: Granary gives +1 health from Potato, now storages 30% of food instead of 50% (cities grow slower)
- Changed: Terrace gives +1 health from Potato, now storages 30% of food instead of 50% (cities grow slower)
- Changed: Weapon Factory renamed to Filling factory
- Changed: Library science flavor increased
- Changed: University science flavor increased
- Changed: Healer's hut cost decreased from 60 to 40 (helps early game if player has lots of jungle near capital)
- Changed: Buildings re-arranged so that the similar type buildings are "grouped" in city build list

Improvements
------------
- Changed: Cottage, Hamlet, Village and Town +1 food (since the food cost per population is 3 instead of BtS default 2, AI didn't want to build these due to lack of food)
- Changed: Watermill initial bonus is now +1 food +1 hammer
- Changed: Forest Preserve gets bonus from techs Ecology, Ecological engineering and Sentient Earth

Civics
------
- Changed: Corporatism no longer give +1 free specialist per city
- Changed: Caste System no longer give unlimited artist/merchant/scientist
- changed: Global Market gives +15% food instead of 25%
- Changed: State Property gets now +1 espionage per specialist
- Changed: Hereditary rule no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Police State no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Vassalage no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Bureaucracy no longer give food bonus
- changed: Free Speech no longer give food bonus from Towns, gives now +1 hammer from Town and village, -2 happiness from Slave Market
- Changed: Mercantilism gives +2 gold from Plantation improvement
- Changed: Free market gives now +1 trade routes in every city, +1 gold from plantation improvement
- Changed: Industrialism gets +1 happiness from Factory and Manufacturing Plant
- Changed: Global Market no longer give food bonus
- Changed: Private Healthcare gives now +2 health in every city and +1 health from Doctor's office
- Changed: Government funded healthcare now gives +3 health in every city and +1 health from Doctor's office and Hospital
- Changed: Universal Suffrage -1 happiness from Slave Market

Wonders
-------
- Added: Palace of Potala graphics and button
- Added: Temple of Heaven grapchis and button
- Added: Edinburgh's castle graphics (some generic castle, not real Edinburgh's castle)
- Changed: Pyramid of the Magician no longer add +1 gold for all state religion buildings (wasn't restricted to Nagualism), gets +50% trade route bonus in this city
- Changed: The Temple of Heaven no longer give +1 culture from all state religion buildings, gives now +25% culture in all cities
- Changed: Pont du Gard gives now +2 area health instead of +1
- Changed: Isaac Newton's College, Leonardo's Workshop and Copernicus Observatory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Edison's Workshop and Einstein's laboratory can't be built in same city
- Changed: Marco Polo's Embassy no longer allow all economic civics, instead it gives +3 trade routes in city and +1 base gold from all merchant specialists
- Fixed: King Richard's Crusade had wrong icon and building graphics


National Wonders
----------------
- Changed: Ironworks no longer require forges due to forges being part of building upgrade path
- Added: Central Bank graphics and button

Resources
---------
- Added: Olives
- Added: Tobacco
- Added: Apple
- Added: Rubber
- Added: Vulcanized Rubber
- Added: Synthetic Rubber
- Changed: Coffee button
- Changed: Lemon button
- Changed: Sulphur button
- Changed: Potato button
- Changed: Hemp button
- Changed: Pearls button

Events
------
- Changed: Illyrian Pirates use War Galleys instead of Triremes.
- Changed: Taliban event spawns Guerrillas instead of Infantry units (more dangerous now)

Game Speed
----------
- Changed: Snail game speed can now train units and construct buildings faster (not tested how big the effect is in full game)

Game settings
-------------
- Changed: Max experience after unit upgraded increased from 10 to 16
- Changed: Max Great wonders per city decreased from 6 to 4 (back to original RoM default setting)Again these are not final changes, more things on my list - at least some new unit classes are still missing and changes to improvements. Though with improvements I'll have to go through PlotLSystem.xml and modify it too and that's one time consuming operation.

I was testing these changes yesterday evening and my empire didn't survive to middle ages (emperor difficulty) - so much for testing it out :D Have to start new game on weekend and wish for better luck.

How can I make an install that has all of bombardment MOD improvements (archers capabiltiy too) but doesn't have the revoluton part? AI handles VERY bad this thing this is a not a good improvement. Never have threated me a riot...

You should see when we Finns go to sauna! It makes us happy! :lol:

- I haven't installed the Extra Civs Pack, but I assume that sauna is the special building for the Finns? Should it be renamed as "public sauna" or something like that, since the sauna itself is truely an ancient invention... Even as old as the first human settlement in Finland, I'd guess. ;)

Does it require marble? It shouldn't. Perhaps stone for the big kiuas? :lol:

Or should you also add the ancient (private) saunas as a flavor building, perhaps replacing the monument giving the same bonuses with the same cost? (Its a bit problematic since monument doesn't increase healthiness, though...) Perhaps the Finnish civilization should always have expansive leaders to simulate the sauna healthiness. :lol:

Please also consider that suggestion switching the American UU to F-15 and using the SEAL graphics to create a Special forces unit. It is the most logical and realistic change to do, no matter how you look into it! :D

@Maatissi

If you look those patch notes, you'll notice there's Special forces unit with navy seal graphics.. ;) Haven't had time to check plane units yet but I intend to fix the incorrect information about them as has been pointed out by few posts. :)

<snip>
@JosEPh_II

I think Apprentice has low upkeep or was it medium.. anyway 7 gold is not much if your economy is well balanced. ;) I've used Military Training quite often, it does limit growth/science but really boosts your empire's military production and extra experience is needed. Conquering cities boosts your research too - I think it as a war time civic option and you got to be warmonger if you intend to use this Civic (or you are scrambling under enemy attack and lack defense units). :)


It's supposed to be low upkeep but it's not in line with low upkeep in the other Civic categories. It matches up in cost with High. Actually the 7 gold was low, it actually cost me 11 gold per turn.

And that took the wind outta my economy at that time. Since the gold bonuses were removed from Judaism, and the other religions that had them, it's more of a struggle to keep the economy in the positive.

Still learning the New twists.

JosEPh

Why are all buildings destroyed when you capture a city? I know this has always been an issue, but with the mod it is much much crippling. One of the main points of capturing a city is that it starts with infastructure. When the nazis captured paris, they didnt destroy all the granarys and skyscrapers and barracks' and universitys and salons and observatorys and butherys and markets and grocers and librarys and bazaars and factorys and assembly plants and etc., etc., etc. Seriously, why destroy EVERYTHING?:mad::mad:



ps. Sorry for my little rant. Armys did not destroy all infastructure in a city when they captured them in real life. Why in Civ 4? I dont suppose theres a way to stop that from happening?

Consider merging this into ROM

limits the number of units you can stack on one tile

Might make war more interesting than moving a single giant Doomstack around

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6311450

Why are all buildings destroyed when you capture a city? I know this has always been an issue, but with the mod it is much much crippling. One of the main points of capturing a city is that it starts with infastructure. When the nazis captured paris, they didnt destroy all the granarys and skyscrapers and barracks' and universitys and salons and observatorys and butherys and markets and grocers and librarys and bazaars and factorys and assembly plants and etc., etc., etc. Seriously, why destroy EVERYTHING?:mad::mad:

ps. Sorry for my little rant. Armys did not destroy all infastructure in a city when they captured them in real life. Why in Civ 4? I dont suppose theres a way to stop that from happening?Basic chance for almost any building to survive in city capturing is 66% (default value) although bombardment with siege units can destroy them before this (I think) - which in my opinion is realistic. In WW I-II factories were often primary targets for bombing missions. In BtS religious buildings usually have 0% to survive capturing, I have no idea why it was made so. In my mod I've already changed some buildings survive chance to 100%, like harbor buildings and it has crossed my mind to increase the value for all normal buildings from 66% to 75%-80% due to having so many building types in this mod. Would that chance sound fair? I don't want to raise all buildings to 100% as that's not realistic or maybe it is for some building types like sewers etc. What building types do you think should have 100% survival chance? Next version already has couple new building types that do increase air defense but how much they effect in-game situation has not been tested yet. For religious buildings I've been thinking values 20% for monasteries, 30% temples and 50% cathedrals - it was quite common to destroy all temples in ancient time wars but cathedrals / bigger religious sites have had higher survival rate over time..

This morning started one huge task that has been on hold for some time now: adjusting all tech flavors to better values since most objects are now in set places. In couple hours got up to Industrial era techs from Ancient era techs - changing values based on what items those techs found and noticed few things that wasn't really used in normal BtS game: Espionage flavor had gone pretty much unused so I've used it now on all those techs that find things which might affect espionage. Second thing was that gold flavor wasn't used for any techs that found corporations which seems pretty odd to me since corporations can generate huge amount of gold. I'm not sure how big effect new flavors will have to AI players but I'm hoping they'll advance techs at least slightly better now. :) Now rest of industrial techs, modern + future eras left to do.

Rest of the day I was visiting some relatives and got the usual job there - fix their computer. Spent 4 hours of fixing their virus/trojan infected computer, so not much Civ modding today for me.

@Cuteunit

That mod component is nice one but unfortunately it requires SDK changes ie. new DLL... so maybe something that could be asked from Kalimakhus to add to his addon?

Basic chance for almost any building to survive in city capturing is 66% (default value) although bombardment with siege units can destroy them before this (I think) - which in my opinion is realistic. In WW I-II factories were often primary targets for bombing missions. In BtS religious buildings usually have 0% to survive capturing, I have no idea why it was made so. In my mod I've already changed some buildings survive chance to 100%, like harbor buildings and it has crossed my mind to increase the value for all normal buildings from 66% to 75%-80% due to having so many building types in this mod. Would that chance sound fair? I don't want to raise all buildings to 100% as that's not realistic or maybe it is for some building types like sewers etc. What building types do you think should have 100% survival chance? Next version already has couple new building types that do increase air defense but how much they effect in-game situation has not been tested yet. For religious buildings I've been thinking values 20% for monasteries, 30% temples and 50% cathedrals - it was quite common to destroy all temples in ancient time wars but cathedrals / bigger religious sites have had higher survival rate over time..



All health buildings except for the hospital should probably have a 100% rate. Military facilities and and production facilitys shoudl probably be lower. Maybe 70% chance of survival for those? As for culture producing buildings, Im not sure what should be done. A part of me thinks cities should assimilate quickly and start expanding quickly, whilst I also think cities should not start getting large amounts of culture right away. Im not sure how to deal with that. Commercial buildings ingrained more in the location and less in the building itself should have very high chances to survive. Markets and bazaars, are, after all, just a collection of vendors. Maybe 90% for buildings like that. Commercial buildings that rely more on the actual building itself, such as banks and commercial airports, should have a lower survival rate. Maybe 80%?
Scientific buildings should just have a 85% survival rate all around. Buildings that increase food production should have a high 90% rate of survival, except for the food processing plant, which should only have a 70% chance. Granarys should only have a 50% chance of survival. After all, in a siege, thats what you aimed for, to deplete their food supplies. Defenses such as walls and castles should have a very low survival rate. Maybe 20%? Im sure Im forgetting something, but Ill just post these ideas for now.

culture buildings should also have very low survival rate, since an artist who made art in the name of his country wouldn't like to make art in the name of the conqueror, right? :D

is it possible to give leaders trait bonus that certain type of buildings have higher survival rate? like creative leaders would give higher rate to culture buildings, financial to the banks and so on.. :P

will there be any food export/import system, like food rich cities could supply production rich cities?

in other hand, how about material export/import system? it would work same way like food supply but increases production.. :P

... since corporations can generate huge amount of gold.

OK. now I know I am doing something wrong. I have yet to have a corporation that does not run at a net loss even when I have all the buildings that increase money and reduce maintenance costs in a city.

Note: this is in normal BTS. I don't get that far in RoM because I insist on playing on giagantic worlds with lots of islands and continents. Which means I run out of memory or video memory before railroad. Which is OK 'cus by then I have lost interest.

Yeah, I really can't find much fun in a game on a map under huge size. I need gigantic maps with 40 civs and raging barbarians on Prince-Monarch to have real fun. But anything over huge 15ivs won't even get to the end of the game =/

thats true, huge maps just are so fun because they are, well, huge.. :D
but with max civs, it gets really slow when game continue to middle ages or to modern..
how sad that computers cant take this huge mod.. :(

BTW: hey Zap, have u looked into TAM(The Ancient Mediterranean) mod? there might be some buildings, units and resources that could be used for RoM.. ;)

I tried 40 civs on Large, Monarch for a different experience (I.e., plain and simple fight your way to victory). Something like 25-30 civs on the main continent, each get's maybe 3 cities at best before the fighting starts.

And oh boy. Even though I deliberately went out of my way to found the first religion and got 1/2 the continents as my religious zombies, 10 civs declared war on me at the same time.

And in the end, by the time I got cavalry the game was MAFing to death anyway.

is it possible to give leaders trait bonus that certain type of buildings have higher survival rate? like creative leaders would give higher rate to culture buildings, financial to the banks and so on.. :PDon't think it's possible - at least not without SDK changes.

will there be any food export/import system, like food rich cities could supply production rich cities?

in other hand, how about material export/import system? it would work same way like food supply but increases production.. :PExport/import system in Civ 4 is indeed quite simple. I haven't really liked how food resources are handled, they should be local resources ie. if you have fish in one coastal city, other cities shouldn't get it too since those fishes would rot before they get transported to other cities (unless you got salt). I'm not coder so I can't really improve this system myself - having food/hammer supply lines would be great though.. or supply lines for military units... maybe they'll add these kind of features to Civ 5.

OK. now I know I am doing something wrong. I have yet to have a corporation that does not run at a net loss even when I have all the buildings that increase money and reduce maintenance costs in a city.You'll need the corporation HQ and you need to spread your corporation - it's 4 gold income per city if you spread your corporation. Now if you add few gold bonus buildings and gold % -bonus Great Wonders to city where you have corporation HQ... ;)

BTW: hey Zap, have u looked into TAM(The Ancient Mediterranean) mod? there might be some buildings, units and resources that could be used for RoM.. ;)Haven't looked into that mod yet (actually first time I hear about it). I got tons of mods on my harddrive that I've downloaded so I could check them, just never enough time to check them all. I'll try to check that mod during this summer... trying to take bit time off from modding now that I got new patch uploaded and have some fun playing during summer months. :)

So next patch might take a while to make (excluding emergency patches should major CTD issues surface from current version) - I'm not sure at the moment what I include to next patch. I still got hundreds of flavor units waiting to be added, modern/future eras still need some work, unit costs need more balancing for late eras.. and and... events, got lots of material for those, just aren't yet that familiar with adding events. There's also some more resources that could be added. I think I'll add small bits here and there, concentrating to one addition type gets boring pretty fast when modding. Oh, and I should make patch now to Extra Civ addon pack so that it follows those changes in v2.11.

I hope you all enjoy your summer (or winter) time with RoM v2.11.. just don't forget to go outdoors from time to time! And if you're not single, don't forget to treat nicely girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/kids... more Civ time for you when they're happy ;) I got few outdoor projects waiting (read: sweaty days changing one yard/garden) and hopefully some days at summer cabin... can't wait to get swimming and to go into sauna :)

Is there anything wrong with this picture? Large map, big and small, monarch, 40 civs (killed like 10-12 of them myself :D )

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2113/dtsjgdqv5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dtsjgdqv5.jpg)

Take in mind that this is only my fourth game at monarch difficulty...

Well.. the picture says you are a good player :). On the other side we should notice that a mod like RoM is too complicated for the AI. More buildings, more units, more resources.. etc. Humans are capable of using this to there advantage. They pile buildings of the same type in specialized cities to maximize their effects. They plan ahead but they can still change their course to use some opportunity.

Anyway, maybe it is time for you to move to emperor ;).

The thing is, I'm really not that good a player :P

I should try an unmodded game on monarch and see how I fare...

*edit*

Fear me, for I have actually completed my first RoM game XD

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9076/actuallyfinisheddl1.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actuallyfinisheddl1.jpg)

Just downloaded this yesterday and pretty much haven't stopped playing, but have noticed two "bugs" so far, and it may have been mentioned earlier. Fieldsman II promotion suppose to double movement in plains and grass, it does not, however gives double movement in hills. Also, Horse Archer has "blue glow" from time its built, like expecting a promotion, but only shows worker actions when its "his" turn. Other than that having a blast! Excellent mod!! (Am playing as Abyssinian, have BTS, patched, ROM v2.0 but do not have Warlords x pack installed, would include pic of the Horse Archer but mine always to big to upload here!) Thanks for allowing my input, again, Super Mod!!

how about all the wonder when obsolete should give some money for tourism attraction?

hey Zap, is there a Great Doctor in this mod? if not could u think about adding that "Great Doctor BTS 3.13" mod? :P

u'll need to fine tune this addon for RoM but i think its not that difficult, right? ;)

In the Full 2.12 version there is a little .zip file in the main RoM folder called RoM 2.0 CvPath. What's it for?

Does it need to be unzipped for straight 2.12 RoM?

JosEPh

If you have the missing interface issue the file inside the zip file should be extracted into assets\python. Otherwise you don't need to do anything with it.

Thanks Kali.

JosEPh

A word of caution for Win XP Pro users. The June Updates for Win XP SP2 cause multiple problems.

The 1st is that (for me) it removed my dvd rom drive ( e: ) from my Device manager.

2nd, after I had to restore the dvd drive (using find new hardware), that drive would no longer accept my BtS cd. I tried refreshing the desktop shortcut and even tried starting the game directly from the e: drive. No go.

My final solution was to use System restore from a point right before I added the Windows Updates. Everything works again, but I'm avoiding Windows June Updates like the Plague!

I tried to send Microsoft an EM about the problem but that was like trying to scale a brick building with no hands. :p

So Beware.

JosEPh

you don't have the Vista version of Civ, do you? otherwise you'd have no problem i'd expect

Nope, avoiding Vista like the plague too.

Will stick with XP Pro as long as I can.

JosEPh

do u guys have stack attack installed in the ROM games u r playin? im tryin to figure out why my game is crashin and have read this might be the cause.

Nope, avoiding Vista like the plague too.

Will stick with XP Pro as long as I can.

JosEPh

no, i mean the Vista version of Civ, not Vista itself... the Vista version of civ is more compatible with anything... even XP than the XP version itself :lol: the XP version was made before a few of those Service Pack updates came out. and since the SP updates are trying to get the XP computers to be more like Vista, the game wont be as compatible unless its Vista version... BTW, have you looked into the compatibility tab of the properties section for Civ BTS? that'll help if you hadnt

Didn't know that Civ Fuehrer. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

tonedog, I play straight RoM with none of the addons (sorry kalimakus). And I don't have any CTDs.

JosEPh

Okay, I've been playing around with 2.12 for a few days now (playing without RevDCM, just for the more stable gameplay experience), and I've been enjoying it greatly. I just have a few observations and suggestions I'd like to make.

First, the civilopedia entries for improvements don't list the bonuses that improvements receive from roads or railroads. Including this information, while not critical, would really help people get a better idea of how the different improvements stack up at different points in the game.

Secondly, I've always been a little disappointed with the fact that mounted units can only be upgraded to helicopter units. With the introduction of wheeled units in RoM, maybe you could include an option to upgrade the last mounted unit to some type of wheeled unit? Maybe the Jeep? After all, motorized vehicles were used as the modern equivalent of cavalry, particularly with their rapid deployment.

Aside from those two minor points, I really don't have any complaints about this mod. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next, but there's no rush. I'd like to try getting all the way through a game on marathon first.

First, the civilopedia entries for improvements don't list the bonuses that improvements receive from roads or railroads. Including this information, while not critical, would really help people get a better idea of how the different improvements stack up at different points in the game.I've noticed this about 6 months ago when I was trying to figure out why those bonuses weren't shown in pedia. There's a bug in Beyond the Sword's system that prevents showing those road/railroad bonuses to pedia page if those same improvements gain other bonuses from techs.

Game also has problem showing correctly icon for road movement increases in tech page - it actually works with "wrong" values ie. with -10 point increases it works but doesn't work with corret values -10, -5, -3 etc. Unit's road movement is calculated by default 60/30 = 2 plots, first tech increase changes it to 60/(30-10) = 3, next 60/(30-10-5) = 4, then 60/(30-10-5-3) = 60/12 = 5. With "wrong" -10 values that show icon it would go like this: 60/30 = 2, 60/20 = 3, 60/10 = 6, 60/0 = CTD. :lol:


Secondly, I've always been a little disappointed with the fact that mounted units can only be upgraded to helicopter units. With the introduction of wheeled units in RoM, maybe you could include an option to upgrade the last mounted unit to some type of wheeled unit? Maybe the Jeep? After all, motorized vehicles were used as the modern equivalent of cavalry, particularly with their rapid deployment.That's good point. Of course wheeled units would be logical upgrade path for mounted units. I think BtS follows the road what happened in the USA where mounted units were "promoted" to air cavalry.


Aside from those two minor points, I really don't have any complaints about this mod. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next, but there's no rush. I'd like to try getting all the way through a game on marathon first.During summer there won't be major patches to RoM so have fun playing the current version without rush :) Well, maybe few minor patches might appear, like fix for those bugged font files and patch for extra civ addon pack and few more map scenarios but I'll try take some "vacation" from modding during summer (hot summer -> go out, cold winter -> stay in and mod ;)).

Has anyone installed the New Official BtS 3.17 patch and then attempted RoM 2.12?

And if someone could host the New Official Patch as the Ingame Updater is extremely slow.

JosEPh (old and slow........and not very patient anymore!)

Has anyone installed the New Official BtS 3.17 patch and then attempted RoM 2.12?

And if someone could host the New Official Patch as the Ingame Updater is extremely slow.

JosEPh (old and slow........and not very patient anymore!)

you can just go to Downloads section and DL it there when it's set up

I tried that too with no success until the CFC.net site was added.

I have the patch and I have it installed.

But I have yet to resume my current RoM 2.12 game. Was wondering if RoM will be broken by 3.17 as there are reports that it broke other Mods.

Especially those that had Python changes.

JosEPh

Well, RoM2.x and RevDCM both have Python and SDK files so yes, you won't be able to continue with your game unfortunately until a RoM patch comes out, or you can downgrade back to 3.13

Once I removed RoM2.12 CvGameCoreDLL.dll I could play it again.

Same as well for RoM2.0 or any version in between. (yes I keep them all ;P)

JosEPh:)

:wallbash:Playing a game on Giant and Snail pace, and i was starting to come out on top with my Crusader and War Elephant armies. I saved, then zoomed out to globe view, then received a CTD. My guess is that the planet was too large to register in globe view.:cringe:

I have a question regarding the special wonders for the religions. Would it be possible to set them as a Project, or not have them count towards the 4 wonders per city? I should have realized that it counted as a wonder, but I got my religion fairly late and the religion city already had 3 wonders, and I totally forgot about the religion wonder and went ahead and built a 4th wonder in that city as it was a kickass city, plus, some of the religion wonders come require lots of research to get them.

Other than that, love the MOD, keep up the good work everyone!

EDIT - I checked and was able to build it in another city, thought it was only able to be built in the city that founded it, as I checked a few other cities and they could not build it, maybe because they had other religions as well? Anywho....this is some good crack!!

zappara or kalimakhus,

How will Solver's UOP affect RoM 2.2?

Was it incorporated?

JosEPh

RoM Rocks! :respect: :heart: :cool:

@JosEPh_II

Solver's unofficial patch for bts 3.17 should work without problem in RoM, just put Solver's CvGameCoreDLL.dll file to 'Rise of Mankind\Assets' -folder

I didn't know he had made such patch so soon so I couldn't include it with RoM zip. Will add it to future patches (or other DLL that has Solver's patch + support for 40 civs included).

I have a question zappara concerning Number 3 of your install instructions;

IF YOU HAVE VERSION 1.x or 2.x (any previous version) INSTALLED, PLEASE RENAME "Rise of Mankind" FOLDER TO SOMETHING ELSE (in case you want to continue playing that version too) OR DELETE IT BEFORE CONTINUING


Is it difficult for you to Name RoMX.x from a modding stand point?

I ask because I'm curious, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has kept multiple versions of your GREAT Mod. So if you have RoM 2.2 as the latest why can't the mod be Rise of Mankind 2.2 instead of just Rise of Mankind?

Is it because BtS gets confused if there are multiple versions of a Mod in the Mod folder?
:scratchhead:

JosEPh :)

Is it difficult for you to Name RoMX.x from a modding stand point?

I ask because I'm curious, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has kept multiple versions of your GREAT Mod. So if you have RoM 2.2 as the latest why can't the mod be Rise of Mankind 2.2 instead of just Rise of Mankind?

Is it because BtS gets confused if there are multiple versions of a Mod in the Mod folder?
:scratchhead:

JosEPh :)

well, a couple things, if a mod, say 2.1 - 2.2 (the only things that changed were things in python) had different names, you wouldnt be able to continue the game with the new mod because Civ treats the mods with different names like completely different mods. He names them this way also for updating and time convenience, but also states somewhere else in a different post that you may rename it, but must change a line in Cvmodname.py in order to make it work properly.

He names them this way also for updating and time convenience, but also states somewhere else in a different post that you may rename it, but must change a line in Cvmodname.py in order to make it work properly.For those reason yes and some python files point to config files and I would have to edit all of them each time I make new folder name for mod - forget to change one and configs stop working for certain features in mod. This happens also when you rename 'Rise of mankind' folder to something else and then run the mod from that folder - config file is discarded (not found actually) and default settings from python files is used instead.

I have most RoM versions in my mods folder at the moment because people have been playing different versions and report bugs from all of them. I just rename the version I need to use to 'Rise of Mankind' by removing version number from folder's name and start BtS. My BtS is set to load 'Rise of Mankind' mod always (in civ4config) - it's easier this way for me. If I were to use different folder name for each version, I would have to upload full mod each time I update the mod ie. no small patches then. BtS doesn't get confused with mods as each subfolder in mods folder is just one mod, it doesn't mix and match them.

The latest release of Solver's patch includes Python and XML modified files. The one I am quite sure that is not compatible with RoM is Civ4PromotionInfos.xml.

It is not recommended that anyone just extract the patch into RoM 2.2 folder as it will miss things up. I can't be sure if the DLL alone would work or not. A compatibility patch may be needed anyway.

well, a couple things, if a mod, say 2.1 - 2.2 (the only things that changed were things in python) had different names, you wouldnt be able to continue the game with the new mod because Civ treats the mods with different names like completely different mods. He names them this way also for updating and time convenience, but also states somewhere else in a different post that you may rename it, but must change a line in Cvmodname.py in order to make it work properly.
Well, in v2.2 CvModName.py says that it is v2.1 based on 3.13. Zappara, it seems that you forgot to update this one ;)

Is there supposed to be a match between the name of the folder containing RoM within the Mods folder and modName = "Rise of Mankind" in CvModName.py? I habitually change the folder name, update the ini file and that's it. It seems to work fine.

@RobO

Heh, and just when I was saying about how easy it's to forget to edit those python files in various spots :lol: Doesn't really matter in that file since the mod name and version number there are in 2 different strings and mod's version number isn't used in any other python file.

So how do you change the CvModName.py ?

I can't open it. Don't know how.

Now in the RoM Configuration Settings I did change this line:

; Name of Mod
Name = Rise of Mankind 2.2

Does this fubar the mod? Or make no difference?

JosEPh

@JosEPh_II

python files can be edited in notepad. Why are you trying to edit CvModName.py file? Changing version number there won't make any difference as it won't make any difference changing it in rom ini file - it's just the text that is shown in BtS main menu top right corner.

Version 2.3 progress: 5 new events added so far. Now that I'm starting to learn how to make them, it gets easier - even added some new python blocks for event checks and they worked at first try! :eek: Just testing every possible event option is time consuming but let's see if I can reach my goal and add 100 new events. ;)

Pls adjust barbarian timing for game speed, or at least remove the pillage ability from barb galleys. On marathon, its annoying, but (barely) manageable, if you beeline Seafaring at the expense of other priorities, and make enough warrior/archers to suicide the spears. On snail, you might as well not bother building work boats early.

Some priorities:

(1) Find someone who can help us on the CTD's (I finished Gigantic maps on Rise 1.x, I can no longer finish anything larger than Small now).

(2) A Global Warming fix for 3.17. In RoM, Deserts are exponentially (literally) worse than vanilla.

(3) Strange AI resource behavior (Salt redded out at friendly, Dye/Incense giveaway)

(4) Barb/event timing adjustment for game speeds

Not a priority, but for other than river/forest tiles and faster move speed, railroads are pretty much useless.

Perhaps this next patch with new events and such should also concentrate on fixing some previous details still having a few minor errors.

For example, the MiG planes are incorrectly spelled "Mig"... Some menus could also use abbrevations, such as the Civics-menu where few civics like Universal suffrage and Organized religion won't fit in properly. I personally have also a habit of editing some city names to match their original form rather than English (for example many classical and German names etc.), but apparently this issue is a matter of personal desires - and of course quite easy to edit by anyone on their own...

Other annoying graphical/interface features are the placement of some fishing boats (sometimes completely aground with only masts sticking up from the soil) and the "logic" how roads and railroads are placed... But apparently changing these would require some profound editing, and since they only look stupid without affecting gameplay, it would not be worthwhile to start tampering with them anyway...

Oh yeah, and how about finally renaming that American UU marine as "USMC" or something like that.

@zappar

If you have a complete list of wonder movies which need to be added to RoM I could keep my eye out for them and add them in as patches if you like. The ones I have done are those I am likely to see before Civ crashes, I probably should stop playing on gigantic worlds I suppose :)

One thing zappara I'd like for you to consider is reducing the number of Civics that have No State religion. It leans to the No State more than State and is unbalanced in that respect IMHO.

Also Gov Funded HC is too strong in generating red faces if you don't have it. Makes having anything else very difficult. A reduction of a redface or 2 maybe?

Just my 2 cents. This is still by far The Best Mod for BtS IMHO. :D

JosEPh

One thing zappara I'd like for you to consider is reducing the number of Civics that have No State religion. It leans to the No State more than State and is unbalanced in that respect IMHO.
...

JosEPh

I have to agree with this. After all many modern republics actually have a state religion.