View Full Version : Why was curt banned?


Xeven the God
Jun 09, 2002, 10:51 PM
I don't mean to turn this into a flame thread or diss A of A's moding style, but why was curt banned for discussing religion in the "What is Pagan" thread? I don't see anything wrong with his comments. Am I missing something?

:confused:

Knight-Dragon
Jun 09, 2002, 11:01 PM
I believe he had also initiated some more anti-religion posts elsewhere. Bearing in mind, CFC here is to foster a feelgood community; therefore steps were taken to clamp down on that. I think he had been warned a few times prior to banning as well.

Also finally, Curt created a DL to defend his Curt posts or something; so he got his ban extended to 1 week. :rolleyes:

gonzo_for_civ
Jun 09, 2002, 11:52 PM
Well, this is mostly it. The DL most likely isn't a DL, just a poster with the same IP which curt claims is a friend. This is mainly respected as Curt is a veteran poster. As to whether the ban will be a week or 3 days is being debated still.

Knight-Dragon
Jun 10, 2002, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
Well, this is mostly it. The DL most likely isn't a DL, just a poster with the same IP which curt claims is a friend. This is mainly respected as Curt is a veteran poster. As to whether the ban will be a week or 3 days is being debated still. Hmm, that'd make much more sense. I'm bewildered that a veteran like Curt would do such a thing as that (creating a DL) just to continue his argument, fr a third party perspective.

And gonzo, is it really wise that you keep leaking out all these bits of information fr staff? :D Not that I am complaining, but just wondering. :)

Thunderfall
Jun 10, 2002, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
As to whether the ban will be a week or 3 days is being debated still.
It's already decided: 3 days. He will be unbanned Tuesday night. As gonzo said, Curt is a pretty mature poster and should be treated like one. I do hope he could limit his religion bashing in the future. :) I don't feel offended by it but some people do (unfortunately).

gonzo_for_civ
Jun 10, 2002, 12:33 AM
"And gonzo, is it really wise that you keep leaking out all these bits of information fr staff? "

Don't reveal my purpose in front of Thunderfall! I thought we had an arragement :(

Actually, I only released the tip of the Iceberg, it's been quite interesting in there :) <-- shouldn't have told you that......

j/k :D

King_Dead
Jun 10, 2002, 01:01 AM
I want to clear something up, I am King Dead,
I know Curt, cause he is my friend off of the computer.

But I let him use my account to view the reason he got banned
cause he couldn't log on to see it himself.

BUT HE NEVER POSTED anything, I wouldn't let him.

A ban is a ban

So pleez guys do not listen to any silly rumours.

gonzo_for_civ
Jun 10, 2002, 01:28 AM
We believe you king. And we wouldn't want to have you leave because of a bunch of rumors. We're glad to have you here and hope you stay with us!

Dell19
Jun 10, 2002, 02:45 AM
Its still possible to view all the threads without logging in...

King_Dead
Jun 10, 2002, 03:20 AM
I dont plan to leave any time soon.

Im just sticking up for my bro!

starlifter
Jun 10, 2002, 05:13 AM
Its still possible to view all the threads without logging in..

Can't the server reject/ban by an IP or by an address range? I used to do that to some folks even in real-time online gaming servers, so I presume an advanced BBS of today can. That would reject even a guest who had not logged in, but not reject someone from Kinkos, an airport, an internet cafe, etc. :cool:

King_Dead
Jun 10, 2002, 06:21 AM
I don't think CUrt would go to a cafe just so he could post here.
He told me he has been spending his time catching up on his
art and drawing and playing civ3.

damunzy
Jun 10, 2002, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by King_Dead
BUT HE NEVER POSTED anything, I wouldn't let him. Uh, didn't he send a PM through your account though?

I don't believe that AoA has his email listed so my suggestion is to send an email to TF if you really got to complain.

And I have to say that I saw the views of the post as a bit trollish and I directed AoA's attention in the matter. A discussion on Paganism is great! Putting down Christianity is not. :(

(I am not a Christian so don't think I am just defending my religion. I defend them ALL. :))

The bit I found uneccessary:I find christianity promotes a morbid and negative mindset.
It is obsessed with death and humbling of the human spirit,
Christianity has a goal of making men into unhappy slaves.Christianity has a goal of making men into unhappy slaves? Come on Curt, even you don't think this is a good line. This would have been a better line:
Simon Darkshade has a goal of making men into unhappy slaves. ;)

More uncessary Christian bashing:Judeochristians didn't invent morality, they just corrupted it...

Lefty Scaevola
Jun 10, 2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Thunderfall

I don't feel offended by it but some people do (unfortunately).
And some of us are also NOT AT ALL offended by such, but are comtemptuous (at least as at civfanatics where trolling is not the accepted culture) of that of his posts which put forth nothing of substance in the debate but were clearly designed to insult, inflame, and troll.

Heed well the preceeding, all ye mortal posters

damunzy
Jun 10, 2002, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Heed well the preceeding, all ye mortal posters Ohhhhh, pretty orange-red. Yeah, I concur, I think. Not offended, but I dislike seeing others being put down.

floppa21
Jun 10, 2002, 08:35 AM
PH, "Christianity has a goal of making men into unhappy slaves"... Well, it does eschew a lot of things that are pleasurable if you think about it... But that's why I posted the one line I did in that thread... Nietzsche wrote a lot along those lines about Christianity depriving men of things to the point of sacrificing TOO much... Not to turn this into that religion thread but I didn't read that as trolling... (I do feel the same as him in some ways though so...) :) And of course, I haven't read anything else that pushed this banning along.

On the other hand, someone got banned! I like it! :goodjob:

King_Dead
Jun 10, 2002, 08:57 AM
It was a silly situation.
I myself have no problem with religions.
I like that are many different people with different views.

Yes, I let him use my account to PM but only ONCE. I have to admit religion is about the only thing I disagree with curt on.
But I hope he will learn his lesson. Guess he can be questioned whenever he comes back.

Becka
Jun 10, 2002, 09:02 AM
What he said in the Pagan thread really didn't offend me at all- it was the latter pages of the abortion thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21597) and the Biblican history ancestors thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24374) that I thought were most "offensive".


I think it is nuts that anyone in this day and age cares what that dusty relic of a book has to say.

I mean why the hell are we listening to words written by a gang of savages?

It is about as relevant to modern man as the chariot...


:rolleyes:

Thunderfall
Jun 10, 2002, 09:29 AM
AoA showed me that post yesterday. I guess it IS offensive to people who consider the Bible a holy book.

I am not religious not because I think those ancient texts are garbages, but because I realize most religions teach people to be good. Why waste time on religious stuff if you are already good and think you can continue to be good? ;)

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Jun 10, 2002, 09:43 AM
Let me make this clear, so everybody understands.

There is a right way and a wrong way to debate a religous question.

If he doesn't care for a religion, he should say something along the lines of "In my opinion, many bad things have been done in the name of (fill in the name of religion), blah blah blah...", not what he did say.

A hate attack will not be tolerated, whether it is aimed at Christians, jews, muslims, YOU NAME IT.

If anybody can't understand why I won't allow such a thing, they are either:
A)Stupid
B)Hateful
C)there is no third possibility.

Let me make this plain, because some people don't seem to understand:
I treat ALL OF YOU EXACTLY THE SAME.
All of you.
I NEVER make decisions in haste or in anger, even if the langauge may seem like it.

Curt had been warned before this week, otherwise I would have warned him not to do that, you will notice the thread was allowed to continue.

I might also add that the thread was "what is a pagan", not "what religion(s) do you hate and why." :rolleyes:

Curt is welcome to return after his time is done, the same as anybody else, but I caution him, and anybody else, stop a moment and Think before you post something, if it's going to hurt someone for no reason, DON'T POST IT.

Easy, yes? ;)

floppa21
Jun 10, 2002, 09:59 AM
Well gee, given those choices, I'd like to think I am hateful... ;)

TF, ....... I'm speechless.

AVN
Jun 10, 2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Let me make this clear, so everybody understands.

There is a right way and a wrong way to debate a religous question.

If he doesn't care for a religion, he should say something along the lines of "In my opinion, many bad things have been done in the name of (fill in the name of religion), blah blah blah...", not what he did say.

AoA,

Thanks for this great tip how to discuss a sensitive subject, without offending others.

The reason I'm positive is that it gives a method to handle such issues.

Thunderfall
Jun 10, 2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by floppa21
TF, ....... I'm speechless.
Why? Did I say something stupid? ;)

Fez_Monk
Jun 10, 2002, 06:06 PM
Darn, I take a vacation down south(Well, southern California and parts of Mexico) for a few weeks, and look what I miss! ;)

Fez_Monk
Jun 10, 2002, 06:10 PM
I was getting fed up with Curtsie's repeated anti religion posts, but I wouldn't have requested a ban. Oh well. I'm not a mod. I respect AoA's decision, even if I disagree with it.

Immortal
Jun 10, 2002, 07:41 PM
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank AoA for his work, I was ticked at him because of the Pellaken incident I will admit. But looking back, I would have done the same if someone had posted that type of thread with my name in it.

I am a Roman Catholic, not a strong one but a catholic all the same. I was deeply offended by his remarks about the bible, I would never think to say the same thing about a pagan bible (if there is such a book).

Once again, thank you AoA and all the mods :goodjob:

gonzo_for_civ
Jun 10, 2002, 09:05 PM
Look! CFCers coming together in unity :) I think I am gonna cry :)

DOn't forget to visit the IRC chat room on Friday at 4:00 EST for our Firaxis chat!

Xeven the God
Jun 10, 2002, 09:27 PM
I believe you are calling me stupid and hateful, A of A. Is that not flamming, or are mod's allowed to do that?

Obviously if you call Curt's post a hate attack you are
A) Over reacting
B) Stupid
C) there is no third possibility.

And, you DO NOT treat people exactly the same. You banned Ozz for repling to you in the same exact tone that you always use. You've also never banned Phil (I don't know how to spell his name, he's guy for Belgium that likes Jar Jar.) for some of his posts, which are far more often and offensive than curt's. Hmm, double standards I see, but atleast you are consistant.

That is my 2 cents worth.

Fez_Monk
Jun 10, 2002, 09:30 PM
Ozz got banned? That sucks. How long is he to be away?

Xeven the God
Jun 10, 2002, 09:38 PM
Yep. I think it was a week.

Immortal
Jun 10, 2002, 10:32 PM
xeven---COuld you show me some examples of posts by Phillipe and Ozz so I can see if I understand what you mean? It would be post helpful.

ainwood
Jun 11, 2002, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Immortal
xeven---COuld you show me some examples of posts by Phillipe and Ozz so I can see if I understand what you mean? It would be post helpful. Just do a search for them - only a thousand or so to sort through;).

@ Xeven - I'd edit that quick-smart if I were you. :D

Adebisi
Jun 11, 2002, 03:08 AM
I think the ban was stupid, as do I think most of the bans in this forum are stupid, but that's just me.

Thunderfall
Jun 11, 2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by monk
Ozz got banned? That sucks. How long is he to be away?
Ozz got a 3 day banned. Just unbanned him today... :)

spycatcher34
Jun 11, 2002, 07:56 AM
I dont think he'll be coming back Thunderfall.......

Zwelgje
Jun 11, 2002, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Xeven the God
You've also never banned Phil (I don't know how to spell his name, he's guy for Belgium that likes Jar Jar.) for some of his posts, which are far more often and offensive than curt's. Hmm, double standards I see, but atleast you are consistant.
Philippe hasn't been banned because his age was taken into account when judging his posts, he's only 14 and can get away with more than other posters. Mature posters are expected to act in a mature way on this forum I guess.;)

Knight-Dragon
Jun 11, 2002, 08:46 AM
Curt also has a much longer history of posting here than philppe; so he's expected to know the rule of the place. Besides, I think philppe, most of the time, refrain fr making the same mistake after being warned or corrected.

Anyway, let's put this sad episode behind and move fw. ;)

Padma
Jun 11, 2002, 08:50 AM
One thing to remember: as normal posters, we don't see everything that goes on "behind the scenes". As AoA said a couple days ago, Curt had been warned before about this type of thing. We aren't privy to any PMs the mods may send to offending users, so we may perceive a double-standard.

Oh, and FWIW, philippe got a rather public "dressing down" by a mod (I think it was AoA) a little while back for a very childish, insensitive post he made. But philippe apologized, and went back and edited his post.

Lefty Scaevola
Jun 11, 2002, 09:56 AM
Philippe has ERRED several times, been chewed out or otherwise corrected, and has accepted correction. Curt deliberately and reapeatedly defied the rules on trolling and group bashing, and defied the authority of a moderator when called to correction. I am not familier with facts of the ozz case.

Xeven the God
Jun 11, 2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by civ1-addict:
Philippe hasn't been banned because his age was taken into account when judging his posts, he's only 14 and can get away with more than other posters. Mature posters are expected to act in a mature way on this forum I guess

I was only 13 last year and I was banned 3 (Count 'em, 3) times. I'm the same age as philippe now, so why am I not treated the same? I was banned three damn times for not much spam at all, and philippe hasn't been banned even once! That goes further to prove that not everyone is treated the same, and that they are employing double standards.

Hitro
Jun 11, 2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
If he doesn't care for a religion, he should say something along the lines of "In my opinion, many bad things have been done in the name of (fill in the name of religion), blah blah blah...", not what he did say.

That alone makes sense of course, but what if someone thinks that a religion (or something else) wasn't just used to do bad things in its name, but IS bad itself?
Of course such an opinion shouldn't be brought forward in an insulting way ("They suck!", "I'm p*ssed about the stupid whoevers!") but shouldn't it be possible to say that? Otherwise a discussion about some topics wouldn't be possible.
Communism is a good example for that. Some people here are obviously communists or something like that. Which means they believe it's a great idea. Still there are frequently things said along the line of "In Communism we would be all equally poor", of course without explanation why. Isn't that also trolling? And insulting?
On the other hand an unexplained comment like "Christians are all brainwashed" would most likely be edited and/or rewarded with a warning. But both are an expression of someone's opinion against certain ideas and ideals.
I think there should be more tolerance for that things.

damunzy
Jun 11, 2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Xeven the God


I was only 13 last year and I was banned 3 (Count 'em, 3) times. I'm the same age as philippe now, so why am I not treated the same? I was banned three damn times for not much spam at all, and philippe hasn't been banned even once! That goes further to prove that not everyone is treated the same, and that they are employing double standards. Xeven, I always thought you were more towards the 17 mark. It also has to do with the attitude. If you refuse to see the problem and a vaction is required. If you apologize for your actions and don't repeat them and you can get some breaks. I haven't seen you get banned in a while...tough-love musta worked on you. ;)

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Jun 11, 2002, 11:18 AM
Xeven, didn't you threaten TF in the past?

Several times?

Wern't you a fanatical supporter of SC/Kraftjerk?

Didn't TF peraban you once for your behavior?

Makes me wonder where your coming from at times. :rolleyes:

Hitro, that would be perfectly acceptable, I'm trying to get everyone to be polite, you can certainly question and discuss matters, but if you lead with a hateful statement, I will be on you like white on rice.
And what you, and a LOT of people miss, is I have to consider what offends EVERYONE, not just myself personally.
There are many boards where you can say whatever you like, but how many are committed to maintaining a friendly and civil atmosphere?
This one.

Padma is correct, quite often a ban comes from a private exchange, not a public one.
This is the case with Ozz, and the staff sees those messages, because we are required to show why we take the actions we do.

BTW, Curt is due to return today, and he's welcomed back. ;)

Hitro
Jun 11, 2002, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Hitro, that would be perfectly acceptable, I'm trying to get everyone to be polite, you can certainly question and discuss matters, but if you lead with a hateful statement, I will be on you like white on rice.
And what you, and a LOT of people miss, is I have to consider what offends EVERYONE, not just myself personally.
There are many boards where you can say whatever you like, but how many are committed to maintaining a friendly and civil atmosphere?
This one.

And that is the reason why I like it and post here. Don't understand my post as directed towards you personally. I just doubt that it is possible to oversee what might eventually offend someone. Some things are quite obvious, others are not. I didn't miss what you (and the other mods) have to consider, but there will always be different opinions on what is offensive or not, probably also within the staff.

philippe
Jun 11, 2002, 11:37 AM
uhm what is this?is xeven now asking that i get banned?
hey i know i made some REALLY stupid posts in the beginning
but now i am here for about 3 months i know the rules and i know now what the line is.i was almost temp banned by lefty.
i know i made a horrible post that made AOA very angry.i apologised but im still feeling guilty.....:(
and i understand that you get very angry but please you are more mature then me.even juize is more mature than me:crazyeye:
please dont make a fight over me.

Lefty Scaevola
Jun 11, 2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Hitro
but there will always be different opinions on what is offensive or not, probably also within the staff.

Yep, as I said before regarding judgments among different moderators: "In that gray area between black letter violation and no problem at all, do not expect consistancy, there will not be consistancy, there cannot be consistancy"

Hitro
Jun 11, 2002, 11:52 AM
Well said Lefty, but naturally this will annoy the one or the other poster now or then.

floppa21
Jun 11, 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I will be on you like white on rice.


I am offended by this statement. What you got against rice AOA? Why you gotta call rice WHITE AOA? You ever stop to consider how many people eat rice AOA? :p Okay okay...

If this post offends AOA or any other CFCer, the author of said post is not liable for any offense taken. Unless AOA bans me.

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Jun 11, 2002, 12:34 PM
I wouldn't ban you, you would enjoy it too much! :p

Thunderfall
Jun 11, 2002, 12:37 PM
ok people. Curt's ban has ended. :)

CurtSibling
Jun 11, 2002, 12:46 PM
My gratitudes, Thunderfall!
:D

I regret any heartache my posts have caused.
I will make sure there is no repeat performance of them.

You have the ACE's word on it.
:cool:

floppa21
Jun 11, 2002, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I wouldn't ban you, you would enjoy it too much! :p

Yah, it WOULD give me some amusement... :)

Hey Curt welcome back!

Thunderfall
Jun 11, 2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by floppa21


Yah, it WOULD give me some amusement... :)

Hey Curt welcome back!
floppa is weird. Everytime someone gets banned you rejoice! And each time someone returns from a ban, you are the first to notice it. :D

philippe
Jun 11, 2002, 12:55 PM
welcome back curt!your plane is ready to put you back into the off-topic threads

CurtSibling
Jun 11, 2002, 01:05 PM
Thank you much, fellers!

Phillipe, cheers for keeping my Fokker Dr1 for me!

After having my brain re-syncronized,
I am ready to post with a fresh outlook and new idealism!

:goodjob:

floppa21
Jun 11, 2002, 01:22 PM
Oh god, kinda sounds like Darkshade got a hold of him...

Simon Darkshade
Jun 11, 2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by floppa21
Oh god, kinda sounds like Darkshade got a hold of him...

In the end, we get to everybody. There is no escape, so why don't you just sit back, and enjoy the ride. :mwaha:

CurtSibling
Jun 11, 2002, 01:46 PM
Do not resist!

You will see such pretty colours...

philippe
Jun 11, 2002, 02:09 PM
sure darkshade im going to the dark side....;)

Xeven the God
Jun 11, 2002, 07:18 PM
Alcibiaties

Xeven, didn't you threaten TF in the past?
No, I told him to **** himslef. He banned me, I apoligised and was unbanned in two weeks.

Several times?
I was banned several times, yes, but I have never threated TF.

Wern't you a fanatical supporter of SC/Kraftjerk?
I support SC, not kraftwerk. I still believe they are separate people.

Didn't TF peraban you once for your behavior?
Hell no! Are you stoned? If I was perma banned, I wouldn't be here. :rolleyes:

Ohkrana
Jun 11, 2002, 07:30 PM
AoA
If anybody can't understand why I won't allow such a thing, they are either:
A)Stupid
B)Hateful
C)there is no third possibility.

I'll take hateful too.:lol:

Welcome back Curt, I got Burzum playing just for you. ;)

Keep the heathen fires burning.:)

CurtSibling
Jun 12, 2002, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Ohkrana


I'll take hateful too.:lol:

Welcome back Curt, I got Burzum playing just for you. ;)

Keep the heathen fires burning.:)

In a polite fashion, of course!

Black metal militia!

:rocket3: :viking: :ar15:

starlifter
Jun 12, 2002, 01:44 AM
by Floppa:

I am offended by this statement. What you got against rice AOA? Why you gotta call rice WHITE AOA? You ever stop to consider how many people eat rice AOA? Okay okay.a

Hey thats right! Come to think of it, I eat brown rice!! What's wrong with my rice preference? Is some rice more equal than others?

Has anyone every read the Civil Rice Act of 1964??? And the constitution gives every American the right to ".. Rice, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyrice! ..."

Hmmmm... Maybe something like "Yellow on snow" would be better than white on rice?! ;)

gonzo_for_civ
Jun 12, 2002, 01:57 AM
"I support SC, not kraftwerk. I still believe they are separate people."

Suprisingly, there is a lot of evidence supporting this.

"Hell no! Are you stoned? If I was perma banned, I wouldn't be here. "

Suprisingly, there is an overwhelming amount of fact supporting this.

"I was banned several times, yes, but I have never threated TF."

Suprisingly, there is an overwhelming amount of CFC history supporting this.

"No, I told him to **** himslef. He banned me, I apoligised and was unbanned in two weeks."

Suprisingly, there is a......WTF!!! You told him to what?!?!?

Alcibiaties of Athenae
Jun 12, 2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by CurtSibling
In a polite fashion, of course!

Or else. :satan:

All kidding aside, after this bull that caused the latest disruption, forget the three days, it goes back to gone for a week.
Been to nice lately, people seem to think they can post whatever the f*ck suits them lately.
That BS is ova.
Count on it. ;)

Not talking to Curt here in particular, just a word to the wise.

Xeven, what did become of your previous logon? :rolleyes:

CurtSibling
Jun 12, 2002, 10:42 AM
Worry not, My good moderator.

The three days in exile gave me a chance to reflect on my actions.

I for one will be a model of decency, just wait and see!

:D

Xeven the God
Jun 12, 2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae:
Xeven, what did become of your previous logon?

I told TF it wouldn't work, so he told me to create another log-on. I wasn't banned, I e-mailed him to make sure. It happened to about ten of us after the upgrade form BB to vB.

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ:
Suprisingly, there is a......WTF!!! You told him to what?!?!?

I know, it is the stupidest thing I have ever done on a BB. Luckily, TF, our Glorious Leader, let me return. Not until after we exchanged a couple more insults, though.

I learned to NEVER, EVER mess with TF. It's like jumping into a fire, believe me; You'll burn yourself really good and you'll be scarred for life.

CurtSibling
Jun 12, 2002, 11:15 AM
The God of Thunder (and rock and roll)
Is a really nice guy, I find it hard to understand how
anyone could have a slanging match with him...

What caused it? (If it's OK to ask...)

Xeven the God
Jun 12, 2002, 02:55 PM
Can we just get off the subject? I'd rather not talk about it. It's done and over with.

CurtSibling
Jun 12, 2002, 05:24 PM
I agree,

If the Mods see fit,
this thread has served it's purpose and could be closed...

damunzy
Jun 12, 2002, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by CurtSibling
I agree,

If the Mods see fit,
this thread has served it's purpose and could be closed... Oh, we are not done making fun of you yet! ;)

And Xeven, SC has been perma banned twice AFAIK. TF is such a softy....or he just likes the abuse. :D