There has been some discussion on this forum of the best use of Privateers, with many suggesting the most effective use is to destroy enemy navies while racking up a ton of GG points. While I agree this is a powerful tactic in many cases, I thought I'd demonstrate a different (and potentially much more powerful) use for our rum-swilling friends.

The situation is simple: we have a rival civ with a lot of coastal cities, who is expanding quickly and using all those sea tiles to power growth and research.

In my example the rival is Catherine of Korea - though it should be noted that a financial civ could be hit even harder.

Here's Cathy, my best friend in this game, but too often my nemesis in cIV:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

And her empire:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

Now, as usual, Cathy had emerged as my biggest rival - riding high in the power graph, teching quickly, and maybe setting herself up for a cultural victory attempt.

My plan is to shoot for a space race victory, and since I have all the land I need, I'm out-teching all of the AI civs, and I have a menacingly powerful Shaka next door, I have no desire to get embroiled in an intercontinental war if I can avoid it.

So, I make a beeline for Privateers, set my coastal cities to blast them out asap, and send them off to blockade her cities:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Most of those are single Privateers, though there are a couple of pairs for healing and for defence of the blockade. And note the positioning of the ships - there are six-tile gaps between them to cover the largest possible area.

The initial result is starvation in several of her cities, and the slowing of her tech-rate to a snail's pace:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

But as time goes on things get much, much worse for our backstabbing beauty:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

That's right, a mere handful of Privateers have crashed her economy to the point of strike. :mwaha:

She can't tech to Frigates to break the blockade, and, as the following graph shows, her empire is starving:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101561/Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

The result is that my main rival is now utterly crippled. I don't know how long I can keep her that way before something gives, but atm she looks finished as a power in the world. In the meantime, I'm racking up a fair few GG points killing any ships that pass near my blockades, as well as bringing in a small amount of cash (about 15-20gpt).

Now, I realise that this is not a situation that will come up in most games. But the use of Privateers in this way is something I've been working on, and I've yielded good results from it on several previous occasions (though nothing quite as dramatic as this).

I also wanted to make the point that we tend to focus on things that make us stronger, rather than things which harm our rivals. In most cases, this is the right thing to do. But there are times when, as my example shows, a relatively small effort can cause a lot of damage to an otherwise threatening opponent.

I'd welcome any comments or questions on this tactic, and any suggestions for other ways to hurt your rivals. :devil:

nice...i need to use privateers more. just usually i encounter frigates when i sail a few over to enemy, even when i go science mad to try get tech advance.

I had made something similar in my Many leaders game 2 with Gandhi ( never made him starve or strike, because he had a really nice FP area, in spite of all of his cities were coastal and in the both shores of a not so large gulf ( that minimized the number of privateers to be used), and put him in scientific stall in no time. In addiction, he got Caravel fever and I got 5 GG out of him ( if it was with 3.13 patch, they would be more with the blitz promo ( need to try that ;) )

One, that's made of awesome. Well done.

Two, IHTS it looks like a bit of a fluke -- this only works if you have the tech edge to get Privateers /and/ your opponent is stuck on a landmass with crap land. Poor Cathy was obviously very reliant on the sea here.

The closest vanilla equivalent would be the civ that has several key resources (copper-iron-horses-happy) right over your mutual border, so that a quick plundering raid can cripple them. It's beautiful when it happens, and it does happen sometimes, but it's not the way to bet.


Waldo

Also, the AI seems to be responding rather sluggishly. It should have farmed over those cottages. If in Slavery, excess population should have been whipped; if Caste System, it should have run some Merchants (they'd starve, but the strike would be held off longer).

I haven't played BtS, but my impression from the forums is that the AI has just one answer to privateers, and that's caravel spam. It doesn't shift civics or change tile improvements. Is that right?


Waldo

just usually i encounter frigates when i sail a few over to enemy, even when i go science mad to try get tech advance.


To be sure of getting a decent window of opportunity for Privateers you either need (a) to have a good tech lead already (as was the case in this game), (b) to be pursuing the prerequisites early for other reasons, or (c) to go for a dedicated Privateer beeline.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend (c) - clearly Privateers can be very cool, but they're not something you should build your game around. I suppose there might be extreme cases where there's an island-dwelling rival who has to be stopped, and DoWing isn't an option for some reason...

But, generally, I'd only expect to use them in either (a) or (b).

In the former (including this game), the point is to use the Privateers to maintain and extend your tech-lead by crippling one or two key rivals. Beelining the required techs may take you off your pre-planned research path, but it'll be worthwhile if you can seriously undermine your rivals.

In the latter (including most of my previous attempts at piracy), the point is simply to make the best use of the techs you're going for - if you've beelined Caravels and Knights, for example, then it may make sense to push on to Privateers (if the map is right, of course).

In your case, I'm guessing your research priorities have drawn you away from Astronomy and/or Chemistry. So, if you're keen to use them, perhaps you could try looking at what else you could get from the tech-paths that lead to Privateers. You might come up with some interesting new strategies, with a good window for piracy as a possible cherry on top.


he got Caravel fever and I got 5 GG out of him


hehe, very nice - I've never got that many (3 was the most iirc). In this game, Cathy could actually build Galleons, but compounded her situation by building Workboats (to repair the nets I had pillaged) instead of fighting vessels. On the other hand, I would've just killed her Galleons and Caravels...


it looks like a bit of a fluke -- this only works if you have the tech edge to get Privateers /and/ your opponent is stuck on a landmass with crap land. Poor Cathy was obviously very reliant on the sea here.


Obviously you need to get Privateers early enough, so there's no point even thinking about them if you're lagging in tech. But in BtS I've found it much easier to get a tech lead over at least some of the AI civs. The real trick is putting that lead to good use in pursuit of victory when the AI civs all pose different potential threats (ie. some might go for a culture win, some could present military threats, and others may try to out-tech you).

And it's also true that civs with lots of land won't suffer much at the hands of Privateers. But I've found that in most games (even on some pangeas) there's at least one or two civs who rely heavily on the sea. Cathy's empire was a fairly extreme case for this kind of map (B&S), but on a snaky fractal map, or on islands/archipeligos, there are often quite a few civs in similar positions.

In BtS I've started paying more attention to exactly how my rivals are developing, what their land is like, and where their key weaknesses lie (passive espionage really comes into its own here). If a major rival relies too heavily on the sea, then I'll at least consider going for Privateers to cripple them.

That said, this was something of a perfect storm. Cathy had recently expanded quickly to fill those islands around her, so her economy already had a strain on it. And my (coastal) military production city just happened to be right on her border. :D

In retrospect, I really should've named this thread "Strangling Cathy". It probably would've got more views that way, too. :mischief:


Also, the AI seems to be responding rather sluggishly. It should have farmed over those cottages. If in Slavery, excess population should have been whipped; if Caste System, it should have run some Merchants (they'd starve, but the strike would be held off longer).


Very true. She did try to build workers and workboats (:rolleyes:) to fix the problem, but the AI doesn't seem to know how to react when so much of its food and commerce are cut off.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how I would've got out of her situation.

Slavery and farm-building is obvious enough, and the strike ought to have been preventable. But how do you deal with an enemy who can cripple your economy without DoWing, and controls the seas that separate you with a superior unit that you can't tech to because your economy is being crippled? :cry:


The closest vanilla equivalent would be the civ that has several key resources (copper-iron-horses-happy) right over your mutual border, so that a quick plundering raid can cripple them.


Ah yes, that's a classic - denying key resources. Sisiutil's Peter2 ALC had a great example iirc.

I didn't know that blockading crippled food. What else does it do?

By my experience, some AI start to beeline Astro and Chemistry when are suffering Privateer attack , others enter in Caravel ( or even trirreme, if they don't have Optics yet ) fever, others try to destroy Privateers with Galleons ( the Dutch ( duh... ) do that if possible ).... The responses vary a lot, but I never saw a real competent AI response to a Piracy strategy.

I didn't know that blockading crippled food. What else does it do?


It brings in a small amount of income for every city you blocakade (usually 2gpt, but some cities produce more for some reason).

Also, looking at my screenshots, it also cuts off all trade routes (including domestic ones) in the blockaded city. I hadn't noticed that before, so I'll have to check (unless anyone else can confirm/deny).

Edit:


The responses vary a lot, but I never saw a real competent AI response to a Piracy strategy.


That's my experience too.

I have. I sent some privateers over to Napoleon and suddenly he started cranking out frigates. I was forced to go around pillaging rather than blockading...

I also wanted to make the point that we tend to focus on things that make us stronger, rather than things which harm our rivals. In most cases, this is the right thing to do. But there are times when, as my example shows, a relatively small effort can cause a lot of damage to an otherwise threatening opponent.

Nice work!

I especially agree that lots of people focus only on themselves, when what matters is relative positions. Snaaty pointed out that it's better to slow everyone down in techs at high difficulty levels than to try to out-tech them no matter what, and I agree. Not trading with AIs, fomenting inter-AI religious friction, using AP or other means to shut down trading among the AI, bribing AIs to attack each other, and now, inducing strikes via Privateer... all good ways to slow down competitors.

Snaaty pointed out that it's better to slow everyone down in techs at high difficulty levels than to try to out-tech them no matter what, and I agree.


A very good point from Snaaty, as usual. Thanks for passing it on. :goodjob:

I remember he also advised settling your first city inland (often moving the settler quite a distance) to limit the AI's initial rex, which can be very effective.

Your comments also got me thinking about resource trading.

I guess that it'll usually make sense to trade health and happy resources with the AI (since they'll do it with each other, whether or not you get a slice of the action). But when does it make sense to sell your resources for cash?

Again, passive espionage could be very useful here. If you can see the health and happiness caps in your rival's cities, then you can judge whether the deal will aid them disproportionately. Trading a :) resource to a leader whose cities are already way below their happy caps is virtually free money for your treasury. Trading it to a happiness-starved leader would be a much less attractive deal.

One thing I'd like to know is if a blocade will stop a RESOURCE from being imported and/or exported.

For example, I have a game going where I am slugging it out with Russia with me on the right and them on the left, with almost a perfect vertical line separating us at the moment. Directly to the north of our continent, there are some islands that are also pretty much green on the right and red on the left.

I have frigates and privateers. They don't. I am trying to leverage that at the moment.

The Russians have two sources of horses and two sources of iron. I frequently pillage both, but one of each is deep in Russian territory, and the other two are on islands. It would be much more efficient for me, at the moment, if I could simply blocade the island resources and focus my pillaging on the continental tiles. However, I don't know if blockades work this way.

IIRC, resources will be prevented from import/export IF all possible trade routes in/out of the target city(s) are cutoff. Since privateers cannot affect land tiles road/rail based trade routes are left in-tact.

Simple example, if copper is on a one-tile island somewhere and you blockade that copper city then that source of copper will be restricted to the island only. One a large island, however, you would need to blockade ALL coastal cities (including any that share open borders to another coast). Also, if the island itself has a source of the resource it is probably impossible to deny that resource exclusively via privateers.

The Russians have two sources of horses and two sources of iron. I frequently pillage both, but one of each is deep in Russian territory, and the other two are on islands. It would be much more efficient for me, at the moment, if I could simply blocade the island resources and focus my pillaging on the continental tiles. However, I don't know if blockades work this way.

You should be able to blockade the islands but you are correct in that you would still need to pillage the mainland based sources.

Can't see pics but I can imagine how things are in her lands atm... Once blocked Hammurabi so tightly out from the rest of the world that he changed from FM to Merc... He sank behind tech and popwise and then became my vassal :devil:

Hail necromancers!

Unfortunately, some evil sob managed to delete all the files from the easy upload folders for CFC. :mad:

And my hard drive exploded not long after uploading those pics, so I'm afraid they're gone for good. :sad:

Thank you!

As it turned out, once I cranked out enough Grenadiers, I was able to first pillage and then fortify safely on the island sources. This released my ever growing fleet of Frigates to go blast the coastal cities and my Privateers to head overseas to abuse the less advanced nations.

It is still a very nasty war, as I let her get WAY too big before rolling into Russian territory, but the tech lead and the economy crippling blockades (and my Statue of Zeus heh-heh-heh) are taking a toll. Two more turns until Rifling, and that should be the beginning of the end.

I only recently discovered the power of the Privateer and Blockades, and I must say it was a nice thing to "get". I now use it almost every map, since I rarely play Pangaea anymore. I like multiple continents/hemisphere/island games the best, its fun to see how the other continents end up without any human influences, heh. Maybe thats why I am such a fan of the LHC series. Privateers really pack a punch in those games.