I'm a Newbie Noble and I'm playing as the Romans. I beat down the Dutch early on, and now my sights are turned to Wang Kon (sp?) Anyway, here's my problem. He has 3-4 archers defending each city. No big deal, except that they are ALL 3rd level city defenders and have the extra first strike upgrade as well. All his archers are 4th level defenders. He's been my neighbor forever and I would have noticed if he'd been in a war. So with no war combat exp, no GG's, how the heck are ALL of his archers like this? It's insanely hard to take his cities, and with one on a hill? Fuggetaboutit. Seriously, it takes about 3-4 Praetorians with City Raider I to take down each archer, if I am lucky.

Wang Kon is protective, meaning his Archers get CG I and Drill I as free promotions. He probably has Barracks in his cities, giving the Archers CG II. And he's probably running Theocracy to give them CG III.

Bh

:lol: :lol: Ironically, Protective is considered by many to be a weak trait, although I disagree heavily.

I think even the people that say it is weak would admit that the AI gets a lot of benefit from it, especially early in the game.

It's great for the player, too, unless you are so awesome that the AI is not a military threat to you (not playing Aggressive AI will do this to some extent too) in which case you should bump the difficulty.

So with no war combat exp, no GG's, how the heck are ALL of his archers like this? It's insanely hard to take his cities, and with one on a hill? Fuggetaboutit. Seriously, it takes about 3-4 Praetorians with City Raider I to take down each archer, if I am lucky.

Get catapults, sacrifice a few of them to each city before you send your praetorians in. The Archers will be much easier for Praetorians at half health.

It's great for the player, too, unless you are so awesome that the AI is not a military threat to you (not playing Aggressive AI will do this to some extent too) in which case you should bump the difficulty.

My problem with Protective is that it only helps you survive. It doesn't do anything to help you achieve victory aside from surviving being a condition for victory.

I really can't think of a reason I'd rather protective over Aggressive or Charismatic. Churchill being the exception as he's already Charismatic, even then I'd rather Boutica's traits.

Why? Because for defending, Drill + city defender is a crapload better. If you're not steamrolling the AI in wars (and if you are, you don't NEED leader traits to help you) then you will be defending your cities at some point.

I'd argue that Protective can allow you to wage a mid-to-late war much more effectively than it is given credit for.

You'll be using a lot of gunpowder units for a large portion of the game and the first strike chance is handy in any situation, but smash-and-grab becomes much easier when you can leave less of an army in your new holdings to defend it sufficiently. This in turn lets you save resources for more important things.

i was about to post a "this might be the wrong place" thing here too, but i saw this and decided to tack it on.

i accidentally overwrote some of my xml files with a mod and don't feel like reinstalling, can i pm anyone my email address and have them send me the xml files?

yeah, i know, noob mistake. i can still play, i just have to be running a mod to make it work.

any help?

Why? Because for defending, Drill + city defender is a crapload better. If you're not steamrolling the AI in wars (and if you are, you don't NEED leader traits to help you) then you will be defending your cities at some point.

Yes, but even in defensive wars, I'm often the one doing the attacking.

Yes, but even in defensive wars, I'm often the one doing the attacking.

Okay? SO Aggressive is useful all the time, and Protective is useful some of the time...Quite balanced considering the ridiculously huge bonuses Protective offers.

I think I'd still rather Aggressive, or better yet Charsimatic trumps them both.

Protective is good, but I agree the AI receives more of an advantage from it than the human, unless you're playing multiplayer...

i accidentally overwrote some of my xml files with a mod and don't feel like reinstalling, can i pm anyone my email address and have them send me the xml files?

If you tell me the files that you need and your email I can send them over tonight when I get off work. Maybe someone else will help you before then. :lol:

The way i see it protective was a pretty lame attempt to make up for the ais shortcomings in war, but it is quite useful, especially in multiplayer.

I'm a Newbie Noble and I'm playing as the Romans. I beat down the Dutch early on, and now my sights are turned to Wang Kon (sp?) Anyway, here's my problem. He has 3-4 archers defending each city. No big deal, except that they are ALL 3rd level city defenders and have the extra first strike upgrade as well. All his archers are 4th level defenders. He's been my neighbor forever and I would have noticed if he'd been in a war. So with no war combat exp, no GG's, how the heck are ALL of his archers like this? It's insanely hard to take his cities, and with one on a hill? Fuggetaboutit. Seriously, it takes about 3-4 Praetorians with City Raider I to take down each archer, if I am lucky.

LOL, happened to me the other night...
I was on a large island (small cont.) sharing with sitting bull. He had the two horses, I had the two copper and single iron.
Of course sooner or later we were bound to buck heads. As we started bucking, he promptly scalped me.

With his Prot trait, barracks, totem pole, and civics, he was garrisoned with longbow, drill1, garrison4. His dog soldiers dont require copper and are fairly formidable axe..... plus I had no horse, they were deep in HIS side of the island, and he used them rather well.

It was "custers last stand" and in the end he ate my liver and made a quiver out of my hide.