21civ Standard Size Map based on Mana Chart (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/21civManaChartV1.3.zip) (updated for 0.30)
http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/32086/2000149125000381961_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000149125000381961)

Flat world
Similar to my other scenario in concept, except that placement follows this mana chart:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148716&d=1172369959
I made one modification in the placement, in the lines that extend 3 out going up, down, right, and left, i made the last 2 of each branch out instead, to better make it fit in a square map.

Ingame Image:
http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/31070/2000121107576593563_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000121107576593563)



21civ Standard Map Scenario V1.3 Download (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/SS21civErebusV1.3.zip) (updated for 0.30)
http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/28476/2003075070683462432_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003075070683462432)
Details
1 solid landmass, toroidal shaped (north edge connected to south and west edge connected to east)
19 Civs start on the map with a settler and 2 warriors (4 for Doviello) (Mercurians and Infernal can be summoned in later and have spots ready).
Civ placement attempts to adhere to what is written and according to terrain types, also balance of different alignments.
1 Barbarian city between 3 goods, basically a likely spot for basium to be summoned to later.
1 ideal empty spot for Hyborem to settle once he's come into the game.
Every Unique Feature is added, as well as a few strategically placed fortresses and ancient towers.

I recommend the option No Settlers, so that each civ starts with 1 city and can only gain more through capture. The map was designed with that intent. You can choose options for scenarios by choosing Custom Scenario rather than Play A Scenario.

In my test runs every civ does fairly well, I tried to give each civ everything it could need, and anything else they can trade for.
Feeback is welcome.

Extra Images:
http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/29329/2003810366873131375_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003810366873131375)
http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/28466/2003839704749788710_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003839704749788710)
http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/30412/2003884018298092120_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003884018298092120)
http://aycu17.webshots.com/image/28616/2003824445892910263_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003824445892910263)


Rivers Mapscript (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/Rivers.rar)
Figured I'd add this since we tend to use it in multiplayer. It's a modified Inland Sea map, but it's toroidal. With a low sea level there tends to be only the occasional lake. I made this mapscript because I like the terrain of inland sea (no ice, nice mixes of floodplains and forests, and tons of rivers), and everyone tends to end up with decent starts. Also, unlike a lot of the toroidal mainly land scripts, theres no water barrier running across the top of the map, which pretty much defeats the purpose of toroidals everyone can get to anyone open mappedness heh.

Wow, as soon as I win (or lose) my current game I am going to have to try out the map.

Is there anyway to make the screen shot bigger?

sorry, was tired when i finished it last night and just got up the basics, added some more images to first post heh

just gave it a try, and i must say: the map is great. Unfortunately, the no-settler setting didn't work (al least it didn't in my game), so the AI was free to keep founding new cities. Not sure if this is a bug in the FFH2 version, or just this map though

It seems to me that the orcs might be disadvantaged in that the jungle could encroach on their resources before they get a chance to build on them. Perhpas leave an extra empty grassland on the other side of the sugar and the bananas.
Also, I don't see why not remove one of the moutian tiles just north of the Lanun, to give them some flexibility in landing a sneak attack on the Doviello or Gigori.

Oh, must only save options for me maybe? then try setting the "No Settlers" options from the Custom Scenario setup to get the desired effect.

About the Clan, the jungle growing can be problematic if you don't get to it quick with placeholder farms, not quite sure which jungles to remove tho. originally i had jungle in every tile heh, been cutting it back a lot but want to keep the motif (plus gave them jonas for Exp for extra health, and river access, and tons of health resources). they seem to be doing well but ill try to do something about their resources so none of them are 1 tile adjacent to a jungle non-diagonally (so jungles would need to grow twice to cover a resource). i dont think this is a problem for their copper tho, since im fairly certain jungles wont grow on resources that typically arent on grassland.

About the Lanun, i was thinking with forts you could get to that sea. the mountain wall is so that its an enclosed Fresh water lake (+1 food that way, then an extra +1 food from lighthouse makes them competitive later on). had been considering actually restricting their water movement more with more land bridges so that more people could reach them (atm bannor+khazad borders eventually cut off access to lanun if you dont have water walking units or open borders with one of them). ill fiddle around with them a bit.. i want some land bridges to them without restricting their sea access.. but maybe ill put some fortress there to start so they can get through with ships still without mathematics. tho theres always the Maelstrom for getting around too heh.

The Maelstrom dumped one of my units on ice, which was kinda useless. Fun though.

I know this is uber noobish, but where do you put downloaded maps? On a related note, won't the lanun capital be useless for other civs, seeing as they don't get the food bonus?

the lanun spot is decent in and of itself, as are all the starter spots, having plenty of resources as they do heh
but each spot is specially tailored to each civ, so generally another civs spot will be less than optimal

you put scenarios into the \Saves\Worldbuilder folder in your BtS folder.

http://aycu22.webshots.com/image/31301/2004464284273526942_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004464284273526942)
Played a game of this map as Amurites with a Sage strategy using AV.
Won a Tower of Mastery after killing everyone who wasnt AV religion by using the 4 weaker AV civs as vassals for their mana. Finished off Alexis after winning since she declared on me right before I won heh.
http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/28438/2004401469363264198_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004401469363264198)

Wow, this is pretty awesome! I can't wait to try it out, someday... <insert standard moans regarding computer issues>

updated scenario, now version 1.2 is linked in the first post and here:
21civErebusScenarioV1.2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/SS21civErebusV1.2.rar)
minor changes to open up some passages and help out some civs that were lacking a bit, or to limit some that were becoming dominate too quickly, details in spoiler:
-Switched Hippus lake to a plains/Oasis so they still have fresh water access but in a tile more useful to them since they were lacking commerce early on
-Moved Lanuns landbridge by bannor up a bit so bannors culture wouldnt eventually block them from others, allowing them access to doviello and grigori more easily; also added a fort there so ships can reach the upper sea; also made their western landbridge split 3 ways so they could go north and south around khazad
-a few extra passages in the cold mountain regions
-some more jungles under a few towers near the clan to make them better defensive spots; moved clan resources and removed a jungle or two to make their resources less likely to be covered in jungle early
-more hills in Ljosalfar area, to limit their food a bit; hill in city tile for extra protection
-a few more hills for khazad to limit their food a bit and to fit flavour more (i over compensated for food before for them)
-changed all svartalfar yield tiles to tundra so they would be untouched by hell terrain later so they could keep their forests, added 3 deer and a river to compensate for poor basic tile yieldage of tundra (did same for Illians and Doviello originally)
-switched a malakim Ivory to wheat to help with their sickness
-random terrain changes to make things look nicer

It's probably too late, but I think the map would look a lot nicer/more natural if some of the starting positions were moved by a couple of squares. The neat grid pattern would then be broken a bit.

probably, but i made it specifically to be gridlike and equidistant heh
i want it such that theres as much space as possible between everyone.. tho that gives me an idea for next map i make

In about 5 games played until Hyborem was summoned, he not once spawned in the area designed for him. This is slightly problematic for Hyborem, since he can't move his starting city or build settlers to relocate, so he never gets reagents without conquest. Most times he spawns right on the edge of someone's cultural borders, often on the North side of the hippus. (each game I played as Alexis).

ya ive been noticing that too, but no way to control where he spawns really.. that area set aside for him will see more use from Human players who take over for him

How will humans get more use from that area? I thought Hyborem spawned with Dis already settled and a settler in normal FFH and just assumed he starts with Dis already founded and no settler in your scenario :D. BRB gonna go take control of him to see.
So the human starts with a city founded already too. So its just going to come down to luck on whether hyborem gets close to the area you set up for him.

you just can't build new settlers, you start with 1 normally, and basium starts with 1 in addition to his city, and hyborem start with 2 settlers i think.. weird things can happen with hyborem tho depending on whether its multiplayer (with simultaneous turns) or single player.. in one case hes had a turn before you control him, so he builds a city where he starts

Great map. I had a wonderful time tormenting Cardith Lorda as Perpentach. I really enjoy your modmod too :)

I'm wondering how you got the camera angles in your screen shots. Is that an in-game camera angle?

ya, just enable Camera flying in your config file and then press Alt-Ctrl-F ingame

Is it possible to get the file in a non .rar format ? I cant unzip those and Id like to play around with this map, maybe tweak it a little, even ;)

Thanks !

heres it as a zip:
SS21civErebus (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/SS21civErebusV1.2.zip)

thanks a lot !

Have you considered making a version of this that could be played with Settlers on--basically a map with all the civs that has real empires fighting.

i think settlers default to on, i just recommend doing no settlers since thats was what it was designed around, as most of the space between cities is more or less empty of resources and ideal settling spots.

I've enjoyed a good 10 games now on the map, I really like OOC, so the no settlers really appeals to me :D. More maps!!! :D.


You can run a custom scenario if you want to modify the defualt rules, such as turning on settlers, or changing victory conditions.

i got 2 more maps similar to this one i want to make, one where relative placement is like that chart of the manas kael made before (wish i coudl find that, dont know what ancient thread its in edit: found it http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=209043&highlight=mana+chart), and another one with a hexgonal structure to relative placements. theyre like making puzzles to me heh

after those two ill prolly make one a little more natural

I've really been enjoying this map.

I'd really like a chart one, that chart was what first got me started on FfH.

i made the Mana chart based locations one, its linked in the first post, before the other scenario i made.

If you play as Hannah, and build the Tower of Complacency, you are unstoppable. You have so much food available, that you can whip everything. No unhappy faces, ever. And if you use priests for hammers, you get Great Prophets. Build up the altar, and you get more hammers. And Zealots upgrade to Stygian Guard, so you get free XP from the altar, and if your culture hits the Iron resource...

Also, with Hannah, I never needed to move below 90% research, and ran mostly at 100%, so was always ahead in tech. (Research Fishing first, and everything else comes easy). This was at Noble. Maybe I should have set this higher. Haven't officially gone to war with anyone yet. With the Council, and HN Heroes, there is no need :)

I haven't played the other civs yet on this map, so I don't know how balanced this is. (Haven't even finished the current game yet).

If you play as Hannah, and build the Tower of Complacency, you are unstoppable. You have so much food available, that you can whip everything. No unhappy faces, ever. And if you use priests for hammers, you get Great Prophets. Build up the altar, and you get more hammers. And Zealots upgrade to Stygian Guard, so you get free XP from the altar, and if your culture hits the Iron resource...

Also, with Hannah, I never needed to move below 90% research, and ran mostly at 100%, so was always ahead in tech. (Research Fishing first, and everything else comes easy). This was at Noble. Maybe I should have set this higher. Haven't officially gone to war with anyone yet. With the Council, and HN Heroes, there is no need :)

I haven't played the other civs yet on this map, so I don't know how balanced this is. (Haven't even finished the current game yet).

Both the tower and unyielding order (harder to get) are incredibly powerful for any human in this, because all the cities have lots of food. I typically played at Monarch or so in .23c and haven't found a good setting yet for a regular map in .25, but for these maps, I can win on Diety regularly by belining writting, then OO and building the tower asap, then switching to the veil.

I looked at this map in worldbuilder and I have a few questions about it:

1) how exactaly is basium supposted to spawn? the gate cant be built anywhere because everyones city is their capital, i realize that it could be built in that barbarian city but then wouldnt basium be locked into war with everyone forever? and what would happen if that city was destroyed or if archeron spawned there?

2)Why are there so few goodie huts?

3)is it intended to be very hard for the blaspheraphs to have an incredibly hard time getting the resources outside their fat cross? they are all covered in fallout so they need to build a life node to get it but their nearest mana source is covered in fallout.

4) the pirate coves and other things on that small sea near the lanaun seam pointless as no civ besides the lanaun start next to the sea, putting their advantage to waste.

5) since there is hell terrain on the map already, wouldn't hell start spreading immediatly?

ive playtested the first map i made out with several civs and have found its easy to dominate with any civ really, if played right. i tried to give every civ just what theyd need to do well. as amurites i had a size 44 city with over 1000 science per turn, as hippus i managed to rush several enemies early and had a huge order empire. the AIs aren't as good at exploiting some of the more useful mechanics, like unlimited happiness. and with No settlers enabled, it can't massively expand and then outproduce, outresearch, and just generally outdo like it normally does on deity games.. which is why i made a map like this, because its fun to play.

it would be interesting to see people play it multiplayer to compare, but i don't think hannah has any greater potential for dominating than any of the others heh

1) i had intended for basium to spawn in the barbarian city after one of the goods took it over, tho acheron seems to spawn there before that ever happens, but the other option (which tends to happen more) is for any non-evil to take over someone elses capital and then build the mercurian gate in their second city. what do you mean about being at war with everyone?
2) i hadn't intended to put any goodie huts, but then added a few to help out the doviello since they dont have their barb trait leader and start with no tech, then added a few that you cant get til you have rangers for a mid game bonus
3) the fallout disappears rather quickly
4) the pirates coves are more for show, but ships can potentially face water walk drown, casters, or fireballs and the like
5) hell wont start spreading til hyborem comes in, the hell terrain already in is technically only quasi hell terrain heh

5) hell wont start spreading til hyborem comes in, the hell terrain already in is technically only quasi hell terrain heh

One "bug" if you will I noticed in the mana based map was the hell rescources for the sheaim would randomly spawn as non hell of various kinds. Like one time I had a bananna and a sugar and another I had 2 bananna and a 3rd time I had them as hell resources. The toads were frequently 2 pigs, or 2 sheep (I restarted a bunch). I think was the same in the first map type, but I didn't try being the sheaim much.

Also, as Hyborem, if you manage to settle in the intended place, I was never attacked once by the AI despite being at war with everyone for 200+ turns, normal game speed (diety). I think the ai is unable to launch attacks through the fires of burning sands.

ya ive been noticing that too

I added one more settler for each civ (still not being able to build one) on the mana chart. Was very fun. Good map :thumbsup:

In all my games, even when I checked it in Custom Sceanario, I and the AI can build settlers.

strange... what patch are you using? in one of the earlier patches the options were messed up such that they didnt do what they claimed. try using patch G if you havent

ok. I'm not using any patches.

I've played a couple games on the map now on the last three patches, and I've not seen any settler building at all, using the settings that load by default.

EDIT: Was responding to the other person about settlers, I prefer no settlers ;)

tbh, i've still got the problem aswell, but it's not just this scenario. I just double-checked with the latest patch: started a custom game, selected no-settlers, yet it's still available in the build-que.
Still, i recon it's a problem with me having to use a no-cd .exe, which doesn't cover all the options it's supposed to. Rex, are you using a no-cd or the regular 3.13 .exe?

@Kwaichang:
The default setting for the version 1.2 of this map is no settlers. You can see that if you start it as a custom scenario.

@Demus:
A no-cd crack wouldn't do something as blocking settlers or allowing them. Still, you can try using a mini image (and Daemon tools) instead. Works well. Except for if you actually don't own civ and bts, then you should go to pirate hell! :D

I downloaded the patch and it works. It's a great amp, just won conquest as Ljosalfer. I was wondering, in Worldbuilder, where are the unique features? I've been trying to make a map, but i can't find where the features are to add in.

theyre under Improvements, you may have to hit the white left arrow on the terrain editor to see the improvements

I just attempted a game as the SIdar, and their start sucks. Firstly the wraiths prevent using your northeastern pass. Second, it is impossible to build farms without rivers so your city is tiny. Third there is no mana or even incense to go for a divine/magic aproach. Then, you have the aggressive Iliians on your next side. If you want to grow, you must adopt FoL. COuld you please try and balance this? I added a river for them on worldbuilder.

in my second map i gave them a similar start, but added a water tile so they got fresh water and could make a few farms.. sidar don't need a river tho since they have decent base tile yields. i mostly only gave rivers to civs that were stuck with tundra, too many hills, or a lack of health due to no forests or too many floodplains (exception to that is grigori since they get no religion).

so they could prolly use a water tile in my first map.

Sureshot, are you finished those maps or do you upgrade those?

And i like to see more maps to you. I havn't played nothing else than those maps since you made those.:lol:

im prolly gonna wait til shadow is out before making any more maps heh

i want to make a huge map later on, tho ill prolly wait til shadow

CAn you post a non rar. file of the mana chart map? Thanks.

im prolly gonna wait til shadow is out before making any more maps heh

i want to make a huge map later on, tho ill prolly wait til shadow

Consider making it Large instead, so it's a bit more "playable".

i do hope this map gets an update in shadow, i really enjoyed playing it.
But if you do, you should balance it out a bit more. As it is, both the khazad and the ljuchirp have got the best starting locations by far (almost always the best two AI civs on the map). Maibe getting rid of 1 of the gems, and 1 of the wineries would balance it out a bit more.
Also, move barbatos a few tiles to the left. Ljos rangers can easily reach him from the mountains, without giving him a chance to defend himself with summons.

Consider making it Large instead, so it's a bit more "playable".

im messing around with ideas now, and since i want it square rather than a rectangle as is standardly done, i just cut off the extra, so its likely to be between large and huge (currently 80 by 80)

about khazad and luchuirp being powerful which of the two maps do you find that on?

On the first map you posted, the Dwarves are always either 1st or 2nd place, depending on the player. Also, can you post non rar. files?

ya, just checking a few things, i couldn't remember which one i zipped before heh (turns out it was the other one)

heres the mana chart one zipped:
21 Civ Mana Chart Map (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/21civManaChartBetaV1.0.zip)
ill link them both in the first post

Well, Khazad rule at having only one city, if that is the rule on that map.

And do something to that damn FoL, Ljosalfar rules whole world with that religion except khazad. Even them who found some other religion will not change it if he/she have FoL already at state religion, some times Lanun change to OO or AV but, they are almost only civ who change state religion at FoL to some other.

And in my current game i spread Order to Malakim, he switch it and some turns later FoL spreads to his city and he change to it. Wth Malakim do with FoL since he havn't even not single forest tile in he's land? And why he change to FoL, if he already have state religion, other way he wouldn't.

Some balance issues fixed with religions and those map are perfect.

I'm guessing with that with so many other civs following FoL, Varn was pressured into adopting it.

tbh, FoL and RoK often balance each other out pretty well in the scenario, since RoK is founded almost twice as fast :P. The other religions are all MIA though.

So sureshot, when you make new maps or updating old maps to "shadow"? Can't wait to get more these amazing maps. :drool: :bowdown:

When, if at all, do you intend to update these maps to Shadow? I'm getting bored trying to make the perfect map for my playstyle.

i can update them relatively easy, ill try it later tonight

im going to make a new one later, but still enjoying random maps myself heh

i can update them relatively easy, ill try it later tonight

im going to make a new one later, but still enjoying random maps myself heh

Please do update it :)

We demand new maps right now! :p ;)

ya been trying, but so far made 3 fixes to make it compatible but they haven't been enough (removed forest preserves, changed startup civics since categories changed, changed morgoths name). getting a crash when i load it up still so trying to find out whats wrong.

Did you notice that the number of teams possible was reduced to 35? If you had any barbarian units or cities, they need to be reassigned to team 35.

ah ill check that out thank ya :)

21civManaChartV1.3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/21civManaChartV1.3.zip)
updated for shadow, added Odio's prison between Calabim and the dwarves. other changes just to make it compatible with shadow.

can you upgrade your other map too?

SS21civErebusV1.3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82959/SS21civErebusV1.3.zip)
same deal but for my first scenario

Help plz! When i click on the download link, it pops up a 404 error, and says that the file is missing :(

Does anyone know where I could get this scenario? I would really like to play it

Umm this scenario was last updated almost a year ago it wouldn't work with the current version of ffh2 and it was probaly taken down from lack of interest. If your interested in ffh2 but want to play a variation try fall further, it has it's own forum here that you can acces from the general ffh2 forum. :)