1805

The Civs included below and in the attached biq are not set in stone. Feel free to offer feedback on civs, city placements and any aspect of the map or civs.

Great Britain
Republic of France
Austro-Prussia
Russia
The Papal States
Nordic Union
Spain
Poland-Lithuania
Netherlands
Portugal
The Ottoman Empire
Persia
Abyssinia
Egypt
Arabia
Sokoto
Native Tribes
Secret Evil Society
China
India
Japan
Siam
Phillipines
California
C.S.A. (Creole States of America)
U.S.A.
Indian Territory
Gran Colombia
Aztecs
Incas
Selenites

Reserved for Civ Backgrounds

Reserved for further Civ Background Stories

I'd replace Sokoto with the Fulani Empire, replace African Tribes with Abyssinia, and replace Madagascar with the Zulu. Just my initial thoughts!

I thought the Fulani Empire and Sokoto Caliphate (or possibly Sultanate to be more accurate) were roughly the same entity. According to my Times Atlas of World History there was a Fulani-Jihad proclaimed by Uthman dan Fodio in 1804 that led to the emergence of the Sultanate of Sokoto. This existed until the British invaded Nigeria in the 1890s.

I have Abyssinia in there already.

It would be nice to represent the Zulu as a separate civ so I might well ditch Madagascar. However, Madagascar itself has quite a nice history and wasn't fully conquered until late 1800s by the French.

If I made a straight swap of Zulu for Madagascar I could keep the African Tribes (excluding the Zulu) or put in one other pre-partition power. I'll need to think about that one.

Oops, didn't see Abyssinia. I thought Sokoto and Fulani were distinct, but I don't know much about that period, so I'll bow to the authority of your atlas!

And a very nice atlas it is too. Great for dipping in and out of or just to look at the colourful maps. It's a 3rd edition copy, I bought it about 18 years ago so they may well have revised things by now - still I trust it more than Wikipedia.

I'm going to lobby again for Emperor Norton (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189108) as the USA LH. No other real-world American politician could touch him for Steampunkitude.

I'm going to lobby again for Emperor Norton (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189108) as the USA LH. No other real-world American politician could touch him for Steampunkitude.

I'm going to bow to your all powerful lobbying Blue Monkey :)

I will make a space for Emperor Norton but not as leader of USA but as a distinct civ based around San Francisco. I just need to come up with a convincing back story and decide whether to drop Brunei or Madagascar. His appearance should make for some interesting dynamics in the Americas.

I'm going to bow to your all powerful lobbying Blue Monkey :)

I will make a space for Emperor Norton but not as leader of USA but as a distinct civ based around San Francisco. I just need to come up with a convincing back story and decide whether to drop Brunei or Madagascar. His appearance should make for some interesting dynamics in the Americas.California, and maybe Gadson Purchase territories, or Texas Republic, secede in disgust over the whole North/South Slavery/States' Rights/Civil War thing, carefully keeping neutrality until war's end. Maybe they get good relations with the Pacific Rim civs because of all the Chinese that came to build the railroads. Knowing Emperor Norton the civ would end up with a weird name like "Libertarian Empire of the Pacific" or something. Or it might be named "Bummerania-Lazarustia" after the dogs that he was associated with.

You only have 30 civs- you can fit one more in without deleting a thing! (I swear I posted this, with the suggestion of Tibet? I guess not...)

The 31st civ is taken up by a 'secret' civ - actually not so secret if you go hunting in the other threads of this subforum.

Ok I made some changes for fun.

Out go Brunei, Korea and Madagascar. In come California, The Secret Evil Society and the Zulu. The 31st civ are the Selenites. Latin America was renamed Gran Colombia. All is evident if you look in the reposted biq.

The Secret Evil Society is headed by Fu Manchu with their HQ in the NE China, another location in the Gobi desert, an uncharted Pacific island and Transylvania. This civ will work completely differently from the other 'nation' civs in that they will be dependent on character units (Dr. Frankenstein, Dracula, Dr Moreau, Captain Nemo etc) and feature some unique units, improvements and wonders that only they can employ. I had thought of another such civ to counter them a Secret Society of Gentlemen (who may or may not be extraordinary) but decided against it and instead will incorporate some of those ideas as special units for the nation civs.

Fantastic! Clearly the Secret Society of Gentleman should be a Wonder (perhaps Small Wonder, to permit branches throughout the world?). An idea: it may be possible to have this Wonder churn out Gentleman units which can then be upgraded to various hero characters. This would require clever tinkering but I believe it could be done if you wanted.

Makes me think of a Dr Jekyll unit which transforms into Mr Hyde in order to attack. Although if I remember correctly, in the book Mr Hyde is actually smaller than Dr Jekyll, so this would be a counter-productive move, but I don't care.

Fantastic! Clearly the Secret Society of Gentleman should be a Wonder (perhaps Small Wonder, to permit branches throughout the world?). An idea: it may be possible to have this Wonder churn out Gentleman units which can then be upgraded to various hero characters. This would require clever tinkering but I believe it could be done if you wanted.

Makes me think of a Dr Jekyll unit which transforms into Mr Hyde in order to attack. Although if I remember correctly, in the book Mr Hyde is actually smaller than Dr Jekyll, so this would be a counter-productive move, but I don't care.

Great idea. I will include the Secret Society of Gentlemen as a small wonder. This will spawn Gentlemen with the upgrade path evolving as the techs progress. I can also use the Society wonder as a prerequisite for buildings and wonders further along the tech tree.

A Jekyll/Hide unit would be great. Invisible Men is another I thought of.

Just to expand upon this idea. It may be possible to have this play out as a scenario within a scenario with large nation states vying for global power and smaller special units fighting each other for key sites and battling the Selenites.

The way I see this working is to make jungle, mountains and marsh impassable to wheeled units. Only the gentlemen, Fu Manchu minions, Explorers and Workers will be able to cross this terrain. This is where the Selenite bases will be in their crashed saucers. I think this can work especially with the map I'm using.

Sounds good! :goodjob:

although I do prefer the sound of the Secret Society of Gentlemen civ ;)...

Sounds good! :goodjob:

although I do prefer the sound of the Secret Society of Gentlemen civ ;)...They would, after all, be one of the few truly civilized societies.:p

Edit: Such a society ought, of course, to include Phileas Fogg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Log_of_Phileas_Fogg). Some of these gentlemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_1602) might also be considered as precursors (backstory or first era).

They would, after all, be one of the few truly civilized societies.:p

Edit: Such a society ought, of course, to include Phileas Fogg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Log_of_Phileas_Fogg). Some of these gentlemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_1602) might also be considered as precursors (backstory or first era).

I'll have to read The Other Log of Phileas Fogg, it sounds fantastic. The Marvel 1602 sounds interesting but a bit weirder. You sure do come up with some cracking stuff Blue Monkey.:goodjob:

Just came across this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Republic_of_Central_America). Maybe you could use some variation of it as part of your Gran Colombia.

Edit: Combine that + this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_%28Slavery%29), and with California, Incas, & Aztecs you'd have a suitably weird Americas.

Interesting. I don't know if I'll be able to fit it in but I can use some things for civilopedia ideas. One of the more interesting bits was about William Walker's attempts to conquer large parts of Central America. I could even mix it up further by including a Confederate States of America - not enough room though and doesn't really fit the start date of the scenario.

You could always make a justified reason for it being founded earlier than it was?

Too true.

Actually, I'm thinking that North America in this timeline should be a lot more colonised & developed than in our own. And since putting in California there's more justification for a CSA that would occupy territory from Florida to Texas. It would mean reassigning some French and Spanish towns like New Orleans and Floridas and possibly even Monterrey but I can live with that.

re William Walker - although the phrase wasn't coined until later, I'd say we have him to thank for the idea of "banana republics".

CSA: why not turn it around: call it the Creole States of America - New Orleans as the capitol of what never became the Louisiana Purchase. Posit a back story in which the Haitian Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution) was even more successful, spread to the southern USA, and led to an independent state founded by a union of former slaves, Acadians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajuns), etc. That version of the CSA could encompass the whole Gulf of Mexico from Monterrey to Florida & some of the Caribbean islands.

sounds like a cool idea. We could have a slave owning North and slave free South.

If you want to go into a COMPLETLY alternate world, may I suggest some civs from stuff like Tenku No Shiro Lapyuta, Howl's Moving Castle and Girl Genius?

For Girl Genius, I can already provide some civ background (also, see the webcomic's page Here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/))

Central/eastern Europe should be split between these two factions:

Wulfenbach Emprie; Lead by Baron Klaus Wulfenbach... UU's; Air Fortress (a.k.a. Castle Wulfenbach)

Heterodyne Empire; Lead by Lady Agatha Heterodyne... UU's; Jaegermonsters (mad-scientist created creatures)....

I'll see about adding more as I thing of it.

I think I'll stick to something that's rooted in the familiar but still offers scope for "original" ideas. I don't think I could manage that by following Girl Genius. That's not to say I wouldn't incorporate some of the ideas from that. Jaegermonsters could be used by my Austro-Prussian civ. I liked the look of the Stompers shown on Friday's comic. So please do add more things.

Haven't posted a biq update in a while so I updated the one on post 1. You can see how the CSA looks, scout out the Selenite bases and find the octopus like control the Secret Evil Society exerts over the globe.

Well, you could perhaps maybe add the Heterodyne Boys in as either (a) a great wonder of some kind (b) this mod's equvalent of the heroic epic or (c) some kind of elite wonder-produced unit....

Also, I think you should put some civ like Skifandir (Xeetha's faction) in Africa, since steampunk Amazons would be cool....

Oh, and an adendum: why not make Baron Klaus Wulfenbach Emperor of Austria, since his territory covers, for the most part, that of the RL Austro-Hungarian Empire, and not only that, but one of Rob's LHs looks just like him....

A few suggestions for wonders:

Transylvania Polygnostic University (the place where the story starts): Doubles Scientific research

Professor Payne's Travelling Circus of Wonders (replacement for Shakespeare's theater?)

Professor Payne's Travelling Circus of Wonders (replacement for Shakespeare's theater?)Until I remembered your obsession with Girl Genius I thought you were talking about Cooger and Dark's Pandemonium Shadow Show (http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/movies/vhs/cover120/drv500/v509/v50959d60hw.jpg).

I know King Arthur has already seen Tsuga's Underworld Terrain (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6169033). So that got me to thinking about a Lost World/Hollow Earth mod; maybe a sequel (as in the Zombie Island series) to this SteamPunk mod. Potential civs could be the Explorers (Euro-Americans), Lizardmen (the whole unit line is already in the Warhammer mod), Agarthans (Orientals from Mu), Morlocks, that tribe She ruled, the natives from Kong Island, Pseudo-Mayan Atlanteans, Old Ones or whatevers from "Mountains of Madness"... The map alone would be really fun to make.

And the tech tree could be deliciously weird. Maybe instead of eras there could be one track for the Explorers, one for the Agarthans, Atlanteans, etc., and one for the primitive tribes.

It could focus on the victory through control of strategic locations (victory points like Kong Island) & resources (maybe a certain mushroom, for example that allows the building of the SS analog).

I think it's a great idea -that terrain is quite inspirational (but must stay on track gnhhh!!!)

A Pueblo-Apache Country based in what is now Arizona, New Mexico, Western Texas, and parts of Mexico.
This suggestion has a historical background, the Pueblo Indians really did temporally succeed in driving out the Spanish, and created a independent state that last for twelve years between 1680 and 1692.

I'm not sure if this goes here, but here's a thread over at the Steampunk Forums that had some good ideas for Steampunk Mid-East/Asian civs would look like:

http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/bg-forum/index.php?topic=6877.0

This is as good a place to post it as any. Looks like an interesting set of forums over there. Thanks for the link.

Yeah thanks for the link. I can use a few ideas for that area. Also looking for ideas for the Aztecs and Incas too.

Yeah thanks for the link. I can use a few ideas for that area. Also looking for ideas for the Aztecs and Incas too.Seen this thread? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184973&highlight=gold+airplane)

Is the first numbers a date?
If so remove poland, it had so called "Rozbior" in 1772 that totally splitted its territory between Prussia, Austria, and Russia,

Russia got Warsaw, Radom etc,
Prussia got Danzig, Poznan,
Austria Cracov.

Is the first numbers a date?
If so remove poland, it had so called "Rozbior" in 1772 that totally splitted its territory between Prussia, Austria, and Russia,

Russia got Warsaw, Radom etc,
Prussia got Danzig, Poznan,
Austria Cracov.King Arthur may choose to change that. On the gripping hand this is an "alternate history" mod.

Exactly!

and I still say that Baron Klaus Wulfenbach should be the leader of Austria

Whilst foraging for something else I came across references to the Bamana Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamana_Empire) - a West African power that endured from the 17th through the 19th cent. Another possibility for one of those "might have been" civs.

First time I've heard of them Blue but that was a very volatile region.

Regarding Poland this is definitely alt history/reality stuff. I had actually thought about giving Poland the Ukraine territories too - this does have an actual historical basis.

HT - I will make him a Great Leader

What about the Republic of Texas (or Tejas), under the leadership of Sam Houston, with the pistol-packing Ranger as one of its unique units? Also, the Aztecs were pretty thoroughly subjugated at this point, and could be replaced by Mexico under Emperor Maximilian I. Brazil could be a big player in the western hemisphere, too.

What about the Republic of Texas (or Tejas), under the leadership of Sam Houston, with the pistol-packing Ranger as one of its unique units? Also, the Aztecs were pretty thoroughly subjugated at this point, and could be replaced by Mexico under Emperor Maximilian I. Brazil could be a big player in the western hemisphere, too.In the AH laid out in this thread Texas is split between the Creole States of A, Indian Country, & California. Aztecs with steam power is part of the whole point of an AH mod. & I'm pretty sure Brazil is intended to be part of Gran Colombia.

I say that the Western areas (NM, AZ, NV, MN, WY, ID, ND, SD & WA) should be controlled by some kind of alliance between the Dine (Navajo), Lakota (Souix), Hopi (Pueblo), Zuni (Pueblo), Apache and Cheyenne... I've had some interesting ideas for Native American Steampunk, especially considering the Dine Nation's proclivity for adopting modern tech to their purposes, and the fact that they've been pretty big players in the trucking industry for some time now....

I say that the Western areas (NM, AZ, NV, MN, WY, ID, ND, SD & WA) should be controlled by some kind of alliance between the Dine (Navajo), Lakota (Souix), Hopi (Pueblo), Zuni (Pueblo), Apache and Cheyenne... I've had some interesting ideas for Native American Steampunk, especially considering the Dine Nation's proclivity for adopting modern tech to their purposes, and the fact that they've been pretty big players in the trucking industry for some time now....

Hey, I :( already suggested that in back in Post 34 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6449300&postcount=34).

Axolotl: there's no real room for a Texas civ -see BM's post.

BM: Brasil is still a patchwork of European colonies mainly Portugese. I may juggle it up a bit though and give some cities to unexpected civs: The Papal States for instance (I've already placed one city for them on the West African coast - perhaps they have bases there trying to administer/control/abolish the Slave Trade (delete whichever you prefer)). I guess a city or two in the north could go to Gran Colombia too.

Regarding The Indian Territory. I suppose the discussion boils down to how advanced do we make the Indians in this scenario. My initial thought was to make them a primitive power who at most would have incorporated some steampunk tech into their culture but this would be limited and only what they get from trade with their neighbours. Any ideas on this? Steampunk bows / horses perhaps :)

Well, as I said, the Dine and Lakota were actually pretty keen on adopting Western technology... As a matter of fact, the Lakota under Chief Crazy Horse were actually armed with more modern and advanced rifles than the US Army at the time. :lol: ...The Cavalry was still using single-shot Sharps and Trapdoor Springfields, whereas the Lakota were using winchester repeating rifles.... Ain't no wonder Custer got pwned.

As for ideas, One of mine was (again, partially in keeping with Dine trucking and transporation prowess) some kind of armored steam-lorry, but decked-out native style.

Perhaps the Indians could adapt some kind of steam-powered velocipede to their purposes - a vehicle that is not particularly well armored, but is fast and armed with a decent weapon. They could call it the Iron Horse.

In Gibson and Sterling's The Difference Engine the British covertly supply modern repeating rifles to the Plains Indians specifically in order to prevent the westward expansion of their former Colonies. If the Brit-allied Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Confederacy hadn't fallen apart during the American Revolution, it's likely that a similar situation would have developed in the real-life Ohio Territory. Steampunk Indians are gonna be hard to win as, but if we assume a trade dynamic like this it'll keep them competitive.

First time I've heard of them Blue but that was a very volatile region.

Regarding Poland this is definitely alt history/reality stuff. I had actually thought about giving Poland the Ukraine territories too - this does have an actual historical basis.

HT - I will make him a Great Leader

As a matter of fact poland in the golden age had most of Ukraine, Half the Balkans (Hungary, Northern Romania, Moldavia.) Half Germany, and the region which is now Lithuania, Lotva, Estonia, not counting the Belorusian teritories.
They were the most powerful land power in whole europe at the time, holding a regular army of 100 000 soldiers and over half a milion to be able to call to arms at any time, which in those times were an almighty army.

No wonder poland were able to stop the ottoman expansion on Europe (as a matter of fact Ottomans NEVER accepted the fact that poland was splitted between russia, austria, and prussia, all the time did they send official letters to "the polish goverment" althou there was no goverment at the time, they just couldnt believe a country as strong as poland could fell to such weaklings.) And yeah Prussia, Russia and Austria were uber weaklings at the time.

WOW! Damn i overexarated.

I may juggle it up a bit though and give some cities to unexpected civs: The Papal States for instance (I've already placed one city for them on the West African coast - perhaps they have bases there trying to administer/control/abolish the Slave Trade (delete whichever you prefer)).Albino assassins & black-robed Illuminati:goodjob:. "Bring in ... The Comfy Chair!" Goa & a couple other cites in India were in a similar status to Hong Kong during the era as well.

I was thinking "Great Game" in North Am. instead of Central Asia. Euros fighting proxy wars by covertly supporting locals & inflaming their conflicts. Well, as I said, the Dine and Lakota were actually pretty keen on adopting Western technology... As a matter of fact, the Lakota under Chief Crazy Horse were actually armed with more modern and advanced rifles than the US Army at the time.The horse itself was a pretty rapid adoption to advanced technology. Most of the Native Americans I know who practice traditional Earth Medicine use "buffalo gas" (disposable cigarette lighters) & use crazy glue, etc. in their bead & feather work. To them it's not the technology per se, but the spirit in which it is used.Perhaps the Indians could adapt some kind of steam-powered velocipede to their purposes - a vehicle that is not particularly well armored, but is fast and armed with a decent weapon. They could call it the Iron Horse.Steampunk bows / horses perhaps :)Don't call it an Iron Horse; it is an Iron Horse.

Maybe those Anasasi cliff dwellings were really a sort of steampunk DARPA/Area 51 & the Hopi kivas double as bomb shelters. Inca accounting & administration... Mayan mathematics & astronomy... Dine adaptability... Lakotah warrior code... Iroquois governance... Hopi resource management... for starters... combined: pretty formidable. Just don't let the Lenapi handle diplomacy & foreign trade.:lol:

Civilopedia Entries

I shall attempt here to provide descriptions of our Civilizations for the Civilopedia:


http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6756/leagueofgentlementxttr9.jpg

The League of Gentlemen: The League is an organization composed of "extraordinary" individuals who have joined their talents together to oppose a new, more powerful class of criminals that developed out of the political turmoil that swept the world prior to the French and American revolutions. This period witnessed the rise of "master" criminals who, at the dawn of the industrial revolution, grasped the tremendous implications of the new technology suddenly available and quickly outstripped the abilities of governments to control them. They created, in effect, multinational high-tech corporations that profited from misery, misfortune, theft, and murder. The League was chartered to offset this lethal menace by the judicial use of ability, dedication, and scientific application. The true strength of the League does not reside in the incredible abilities of its members, notable though they may be; it is, rather, the League's dedication to investigation and innovation that makes it such an effectively powerful organization. Despite its name, the League's membership has included some certain females, who, contrary to their fair species' reputation of frailty and aversion to such things, have participated wholly in the battle against criminals, and even served in positions of leadership!


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5292/sdlogo3yr8.jpg

La Société Diabolique Secrète (The Secret Evil Society): originally founded by elite members of Les Habits Noirs (the Black Coats) in France, its symbol, and calling card, was a black rose. When the Black Coats were brought to England by the master criminal John Devil in the 1830's under the nome de plume The Gentlemen's Society, the Société Diabolique acted as an invisible 'board of directors' to the group. Some years later Professor Moriarty resurrected and rebuilt the group and during this time it was often, and erroneously, called 'The Black Rose Society' or 'The Black Rose'. Because this elite group was known only (or more accurately, suspected to exist) by certain members of Scotland Yard, its existence has not been chronicled in popular literature, although some members of the group have become known to the public by the infamy of their individual misdeeds. Even less is known of the actual activities of the Société, save for the fact that they have always recruited only the crème de la crème of the criminal world, so that its members are invariably the most evil, treacherous, dangerous, and talented criminal minds of their time.


http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PF/PF_408971_999~Union-Jack-Posters.jpg

Great Britain: When the young Princess Alexandrina Victoria was told that she would one day be queen, she reportedly said, "I will be good." This statement, applied to the reign of Queen Victoria, would prove to be succinct, accurate, and predictive, for Victoria would bring the British Empire into being, preside over the industrial revolution, and popularize Christmas trees, railroads, white weddings, and marriage between first cousins. During her reign the Empire has expanded so far around the globe that they say "the sun never sets upon it", and this worldwide military success surely proves that her military was and is among the best ever fielded. Despite this, her reign is also known as one of relative peace between monarchs, bolstered no doubt by the fact that almost all of them are related to her.
On September 29th, 1829, Scotland Yard (and London's Metropolitan Police) was founded by Sir Robert Peel and the controversial French detective (and former criminal) Francois-Eugen Vidocq. Scotland Yard introduced both scientific method and bureaucracy into police work, and both have remained since. Because of this, Whitehall has occasionally (quietly) turned to the League of Gentlemen for assistance, although the relationship between Her Majesty's government and the League is invariably strained, at least on an official level.

Sorry, Old Chap, but it's "the fairer sex". None of us, at least not the wise, oppose them. ;)

Edited! Thank you, Blue. Sorry that your post will now make no sense to anybody else.

Those are great! Good pedia entries always make a big difference.

A couple of carping comments, just in the spirit of making them perfect: You can't say "comprised of" - it should be either "comprising" or "composed of". You have stray apostrophes in "its symbol" and "its existence". "Crème" has a grave accent, not an acute one.

...Victoria would bring the British Empire into being, preside over the industrial revolution, and popularize Christmas trees, railroads, white weddings, and marriage between first cousins.

Genius.

Plotinus, good eye: the edits have been made. Thanks for the advice and the compliment.

So On to:

Civilopedia Civilizations Part II: Mars (Barsoom)

[Note to group: much more about the Martians, including their technology, units, and buildings can be found here (http://erblist.com/abg/index.html), and I owe a great deal to David Bozarth for these descriptions, and of course to Edgar Rice Burroughs, who invented it all.]

http://erblist.com/abg/throneroom.jpgThe Orovars: An Orovar, also known as a Red Martian, begins life (as all Martians do) as an egg, which incubates for five years until he breaks the shell and emerges as an adolescent, wild creature that must be tamed and trained. At birth the Orovar are taught the use of weapons, becoming so used to them that in later life they feel naked without them. The rest of his life will be devoted to Honor, Family, and Warfare against his people's ancient enemy, the Tharks. Indeed, although his natural lifespan is up to 1000 years, few Orovars attain old age, most dying by their 300th year due to war and harsh environment. Quick to temper, and quick to kill, the Orovars hold down runaway population almost solely through murder and casual violence. That's not to say that Orovars are just brutes; they are, in fact extremely intelligent and industrious, and their science is advanced (although their best ideas probably come from the archives of the Ancients). Because commerce finances war, and agriculture feeds it, the Orovars are avid practitioners of both. The Gatholians, for instance, are noted for their thoat herds and their incredible mines, which produce diamonds and platinum.
The Orovar culture is both similar to and exotic compared to earth culture. Because Orovars don't show the effects of old age until shortly before death, differences in age don't count. An Orovar might fall in love on a beautiful two-moon night, and the object of his affection might be seventeen or she might be seven hundred. A marriage alliance is made simply when she says "my chieftain" to which he replies "my princess". There is a ceremony for marriage, which seems to involve a beautiful setting, the clamping of golden collars about the throats of the interested parties, and the use of handcuffs. The average Orovar believes in ancestor worship, though other religions abound. Only the Phandahlian god Tur, with a bible called a Turgan, seems to be widely worshiped.
The Orovars' governmental structure is the same as it is for the Tharks. A Jeddak rules over Jeds, Jeds rule over cities, lesser chieftains are below Jeds. As in the case of the Tharks, all one needs to rise in power is support and one good sword arm. Most offices are won by combat. Slavery is common planet-wide; the Orovars consider it justifiable bounty of war (besides, their slaves are always Tharks). Slaves are allowed to win their freedom in the Arena by the Orovar, as a point of honor: of course, they rarely win, but they do provide great entertainment.
Orovar is a remarkably diverse country, with white, black and yellow Martians living and working among the majority Red Martians. But the Orovars will kill on sight the Tharks: the green Martians that live in dead seas and wastelands, and come in the night in hordes, and give Orovars nightmares.


http://erblist.com/abg/pomgtm1s.gif
The Tharks: The Tharks, also known as Green Martians, are a wild, barbaric race of giant warriors that inhabit, and terrorize, the dead sea bottoms of Barsoom. They exist almost exclusively on a plant they find in the desert which makes a liquid similar to milk (up to ten quarts a day) and provides a cheese-like food. Tharks are nomadic in general, though their capital city of Thark is usually occupied by five of the twenty-five tribes of Thark. They move about in communities of eight to sixteen hundred individuals called Hordes, and take all of their possessions during any move. Each Horde is ruled by a Jed and nine lesser chieftains. A Jeddak rules all Hordes and is also surrounded by the Jeds of the Hordes in a loose hierarchy. Any male can become a Jed or Jeddak by merely fighting his way up through the ranks. From birth, the life of a Thark is fraught with peril and disaster. There are numerous personal duels in the community, as many as eight a day. The victor of each encounter assumes the name of the vanquished and all of the chattel held by the deceased. The greater the prowess, the more names; conversely, the o-mad (man with one name) is rather low in importance.
Like all Martians, Tharks are oviparous, that is to say they reproduce by laying eggs about the size of a terrestrial goose egg which grow over a five year period to their hatching size of 2½ feet in diameter. A female Thark normally lays thirteen eggs which can be, and normally are, stored until the horde gets back to its secret incubator. There the eggs are sorted: those that are too small are destroyed, as are any which appear defective. The eggs are then placed back inside the incubator and forgotten as they take five years to mature under the rays of the sun. When born, a hatchling is four feet in height and, as the matter of parentage is never known under these conditions, is raised by the first waiting females to catch and raise them for the community. Adult Tharkan males are fifteen feet tall and four hundred pounds in weight. Females reach ten to twelve feet. Maturity is age forty and lasts for a thousand years, until they voluntarily take the pilgrimage of death to the Valley Dor - Thark Heaven. Only one in a thousand dies of sickness or disease, and possibly twenty per thousand live long enough to take the pilgrimage, the other 979 die violent deaths. The average age of a Tharkan is three hundred years.

Despite their terrifying appearance, Tharks are able to communicate with humans, and even to smile, although a Tharkan laugh is said to be "a thing to cause strong men to blanch in horror".

The Hordes became a dominate power when the seas of Mars began to fail. They took up their warrior existence in the dead sea bottoms, multiplied, and became the raging death of the hated and decadent Orovar race which surround the sea beds. The pride of this war-like society is illustrated in the ancient Tharkan proverb: "Leave to a Thark his head and one hand and he may yet conquer."

Well done, Balthasar!

Superb stuff Balthasar. Those Tharks scare me ;)

Superb stuff Balthasar. Those Tharks scare me ;)

- ~but their motto reminds me of the Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail.:D

On the other hand, you can't help but be impressed by the way Burroughs (who had done a stint with the 7th Cavalry in Arizona) makes this, on a whole other level, a tongue-in-cheek allegory of the settlement of the American West by Irish immigrants. The Orovars (redskins) are Native Americans as they were seen by the white man: cruel, exotic, and casually violent, but conversely fanatically devoted to honor and family. The Tharks, on the other hand, are the Irish (green) settlers (hordes) as seen through the eyes of the Native Americans: Large, loud, constantly fighting, and surrounded by children that don't seem to belong to anyone. At other times, it seems as though Burroughs wants us to understand that the situation could be seen as the reverse: it is the Orovars after all, who represent civilized society in this metaphor. As literature, it deserves greater respect; as social satire, it is among the best. The Tharks see themselves as having already won, describing the Orovars as a "dying" race, but Burroughs turns the tables on the Tharks and their theory of manifest destiny: in his stories, the redskins win.

Couldn't it be the "O'Rovers" vs. the Saxon-sounding "Tharks"? :p

Couldn't it be the "O'Rovers" vs. the Saxon-sounding "Tharks"? :p

That would be my preference, since I'm mostly Irish, myself. That having been said:

Civilopedia Civilizations part III: The Moon races


[Note to group: for the sake of balance, as well as getting Verne's Selenites into the game, I have taken some liberties with the description of these races]

http://www.thespacereview.com/archive/766a.jpg


The U'ga: In the perpetual twilight of the Moon's meridian - the thin strip of rock where the dark and light sides of the moon meet, and it is neither dark and freezing nor blinding and unbearable - the U'gas and the Selenites have found two different ways to thrive and grow in an environment that most other races wouldn't survive at all.

The U'gas call their lunar world Va'nah. They are humanoid, and were originally mountain dwellers, darting from cave to cave to escape the Selenites and surviving on a particular moss that grows beneath the ground. One day, as they tell it, an U'ga lad found a strange rock that gave him an electrical shock. Thousands of years of trial and error later, the U'gas are a technologically advanced race, attended to and (sometimes) defended by robots. Despite their technical acuity, they've never tried to go into space because of an ancestral fear of literally falling off the world into space (an understandable phobia on a world without much gravity). The city of Laythe is the U'gas' capitol city, from which they are ruled by Sagroth, the father of Nah'ee'lah, the Moon Maid. All gentlemen of this race carry, as their custom, a short lance or javelin, a dagger, and a sword. They keep these weapons with them at all times because the Selenites are extremely unpredictable and can attack without warning. Many U'ga hunters carry a coil of rope around their bodies underneath their clothing. The rope is used for emergencies such as to gain entrance to tunnels below the crater’s edge. That the U'gas would remain at such a high state of vigilance might seem strange to some, in fact they are as used to it as we are used to wearing shoes. The U'gas have learned that they can occasionally capture a Selenite and domesticate it to work, and in fact they are considered to be extremely competent workers, as once set to a task, a Selenite will keep doing that task until it is completed. It is not unusual for a Selenite worker, given a task which is beyond its abilities, to literally work itself to death.


http://home.comcast.net/~abunny2000/movies/fmitm/grandlunar.jpg

The Selenites - Because of their exoskeletons, most humans would say that the Selenites look like insects, only much, much larger. They share the moon with the U'gas, an advanced civilization. Most Selenites have low intelligence, but all Selenites share one spectacular talent: they are perfect mimics, and can duplicate any structure or technology, down to the source minerals. They are also social mimics, can pick up a new languages instantly, and will adopt the body language and attitude of whatever being it comes upon (so if you are surprised by a Selenite, it is wise to be friendly; of course, if a Selenite is hungry, it will find a way to eat you anyway). As a result of this mimicry, the cities of the Selenites are as big and beautiful as those of the U'gas themselves. Some say that the cities are a variation on a Venus flytrap; that somewhere in the past the Selenites' ancestors developed this technique to lure unwary travelers into their lairs to be eaten. Actually, the Selenites devote most of their attention to the care of their Queen, upon whose milk the Selenites depend for life. The Selenite entrusted with the care of the Queen has the title GrandLunar, and acts as the Selenites' leader.

Such a pity that the dregs of our country ruined such a noble people... Granted, they moved out of necessity, and were coarse through abuse of heritage, but the west of america was raped by colonists- Irish and others alike. Ah well, it's the way the world works isn't it?

And boy, Balthasar, those pedia entries are astounding! Top marks! :D

Such a pity that the dregs of our country ruined such a noble people...

They didn't. That was done by the Spanish, British, Portugese, Dutch, French, and even Russian settlers who preceded them.

And now for something completely different. . . .

Civilopedia Civilizations, part IV: Undersea, Underground

[Note to the group: for the sake of clarity, the Vril race will be spelled with one "L" while the resource will be spelled with two.]

http://www.schools.nsw.edu.au/events/statecompetitions/webawards/winners2006/secondary/10/images/Atlantis_sm.jpg

Atlantis:

The clues we had kept mentioning 'Atland' and the North Sea, but Ahab insisted that there was no such place, not even an island, that fit the description. "Fools!" said Nemo, "They are describing Atlantis! It is not on the North Sea it is under it!" This declaration was met all around with skepticism, as it was generally agreed that Plato's description of Atlantis had been of a place near the Straits of Gibraltar, or in the Americas. "You shall see!" cried Nemo, and left, returning a short while later with a manuscript, which he described as an ancient document recently discovered in Fresia, called 'The Oera Linda Book' . Fogg, who had knowledge of obscure languages, examined the book and after a while declared that it did indeed describe the location as being under the North Sea. Nemo only glared at the rest of us, and finally said, "I shall prepare," and then stormed out. Later, Holmes took me aside and intimated that he had examined the document, and decided that it was a fake. "But," he said, "we could never convince Nemo of it." Then he added, "I'm sure the captain will provide us with an interesting voyage nonetheless."

When Atlantis sank beneath the sea, the only thing that saved its occupants from watery death was a network of tunnels beneath the city, provided from below with breathable atmosphere . These tunnels apparently existed before the city sank; one theory is that the mountain upon which Plato says Atlantis was built was actually a hollowed-out volcano, dead from ancient times. The Atlantans adapted in time to their new environment; they tamed the creatures of the sea around them, most notoriously training Giant Squid to defend the sea that lies above them. However enlightened the Atlantans may have been before their country sank (and they have wonderful ancient archives), twenty-five centuries of isolation have left them extremely xenophobic and aggressive. They are unusually healthy and very long lived, having access to a form of concentrated, nutrient-rich water resource called Vrill that is collected in the underground tunnels. Some centuries ago, the Atlantans that lived underground and collected the Vrill fell into civil war with those who lived on the seabed above, and the two factions split into separate nations, neither of whom have anything resembling an agreeable nature.


http://pixdaus.com/small3/1209706909UylU4tW.jpegThe Vril: The Vril are a disagreeable people who live in the tunnels and caves that riddle the earth beneath Atlantis. When the great general of the Vril, Magrot, led his people in revolt against the Atlantans, his motto was, translated: "Because We Deserve It". Little more needs to be said about the Vril, who are possibly the most self-satisfied, self-congratulatory, self-centered race that ever lived. To that end, they have amassed a great library of self-complimentary histories, all culminating with them saving mankind (of whom they know nothing). That they never come out of their tunnels is not mentioned. They have access, however, to Vrill, the valuable substance after which they are named. Vrill, a form of concentrated, mineral-rich water, can quicken healing, and lengthen life. Also available in the tunnels of the Vril is oil, which collects in pools and ruins whole caves with its stench, and a wide variety of minerals, so they would be valuable trading partners, if you could stand them. Be careful though, as they are likely to attempt to trade their history as a valuable resource, when in fact it has no value at all!

And now the final installment:

Civilopedia Civilizations, part V: Pellucidar

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The Sagoths: The Sagoths are a primitive people who live in the lost world of Pellucidar, deep beneath the earth's crust. Nobody knows how they got there (they do not look like the Atlantans) or how long they've been there. Despite their being a primitive race, they have a very complex society. They are a strikingly attractive race, and also a friendly people, quick to call you Padang (friend) and to offer you a cup of Tumal (a native brew). Their life, however, is harsh, as they are caught in a life-and-death struggle with the Mahar, a confederation of ancient deadly creatures that occupy nearly half their world. The Sagoths are aware of the Vril, but call them "The Buried Ones" and believe them to be cannibals. The Sagoths also control the world's only known source of Cavonite, a mineral essential to the development of space flight! They are familiar with agriculture, tending to large farms despite the Mahars' threat, but have not yet mastered mining. They have been able to domesticate a few of the Mahar beasts by a method we'd call lobotomy, and use them as we would use horses or oxen. Dogs are apparently immune to the mechanism that controls the other beasts (retaining their reputation for loyalty to mankind), and the Sagoths use them for early warning, tracking, and protection. The Sagoths are ruled by Diane the Beautiful, Daughter of Kandar, King of Amoz; Princess of Amoz, Empress of Pellucidar.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_UEY_Bhs-Bp4/RtmEAnECAMI/AAAAAAAAAkw/IR7HyBlXYMA/s400/Edgar+Rice+Burroughs+Pellucidar+5.jpg

The Mahar: To call the Mahar a civilization is actually a misnomer; in fact all of the prehistoric beasts of Pellucidar are under the control (possibly telepathic) of the Kong, a race of giant intelligent Great Apes that have a deep hatred for humans. The greater question is where these beasts came from, as most of them disappeared from the earth millions of years before mankind even appeared. There are also beasts in Pellucidar that were familiar to early man, such as the Sabertooth Tiger and the Mammoth; one can find modern creatures such as wolves and jungle cats among the Mahar as well, and even some that weren't believed to exist, like sea dragons! Regardless of the type of beast, it is wiser to avoid a Mahar than to confront it, but if you must, it is even wiser to kill it before it kills you.

The more I read these entries the more I drool waiting fro the mod...:goodjob:

Now that we have civs worked out I propose we start thinking about units we would like to see. Feel free to make suggestions in the unit lines discussion thread. It might be hard getting some units made as I've mentioned before so try to identify some existing units that will fit in. Thanks

I almost posted these in the Units thread because of the cool war machine, but decided they belong here as illustrations of otherworldy civs.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5461/barsoomillosfr5.png

"Other Worlds" Map Civs:

I thought of posting this in the maps thread, but it more properly belongs here. I don’t think the different versions of the mod should become too distinct yet. There may be some elements that will spark ideas for the Lost Worlds & Counterfactual Terra versions. I’m certainly open to being influenced to draw my list more closely to the others as well.

Here’s a tentative list of civs (28 so far) I’m considering for the mod-version temporarily called Sceptre & Orbs - "A Clash of Empires Across the Depths of the Aether". They are divided into 5 vaguely defined culture groups. The parenthetical notes give a bit of back story as to the character of each civ.


Euro-Ams

In the Old World
Anglian Empire (AH version of the British Empire with a stronger Saxon influence; Harold beat William the C.)Various historic forces lead to the advent of multiple states, where in our world stood the French Empire and a united Germany:
Occitania (the Oc speaking cultures came out on top in the Albigensian Crusades)
The Dogal States (Venice eclipsed Rome in the Renaissance; includes most of Italy & the Adriatic states, and many overseas colonies under the sway of the Jesuits)
Hanseatic League (a mercantile oligarchy centered around the North & Baltic Seas)
Compact of Free Bohemia (inspired by Mozart & the other freethinkers of the 18th c., Anarcho-Syndicalists throw off the oppressors & a new Renaissance flowers in central Europe)In the New World

Empire of Brasyl (former French royalty, squeezed between the strong cultural hegemony of Occitania & the burgeoning economic power of the Hanseatic League, sought refuge by slashing and burning a new kingdom out of the wilds of the New World)
New Arcadia (A French-speaking North American democracy spreading from New Amsterdam to the North & West)After a failure to reach a compromise on entry of new slave vs. non-slave states caused total disintegration of the union, elements of New England & the Great Lakes states joined Arcadia and 2 new nations arose from the ashes of the USA :
Grand Republican Empire of Kalifexas - stretching from California to Texas, under the able leadership of Joshua Abraham Norton
C.S.A. (Creole States of America) a sort of anti-Golden Circle forged from the slave rebellions of the Caribbean, free American Blacks, and the Acadians of Louisiana, with New Orleans as its capital.
Orientals
Golden Khanate (from Krakow, across the steppes of Central Asia (capital at Samarkand), and even into Alaska)
Middle Kingdom ( a “mandate of heaven” unifying China, Korea, & Japan)
Bharata Varsha (Greater India, having repulsed the Mongol invasions & currently dealing with European mercantile colonialism)
Sri Vijaya - ( a thalassocracy based in Java)
Empires of the Crescent
River of Ma’at ( an Egyptian theocracy)
Andalusian Caliphate (the Iberian Peninsula, across North Africa to Carthage, and up to Sicily)
Byzantium (a syncretic culture, more Bogomil than Orthodox)
Parthia (Carthage defeated Rome, and the culture of Zarathustra & Mani survived into modernity)
Lost Tribes
Ajawil of Tikal (Mayan version of the Delian League, lead by Tikal)
Abyssinia
Bambara Empire
Great Hoop (the Iroquois Confederacy expands to the shores of the Pacific)Two groups without a strong central government - foils and sources for rare resources & guardians of victory points; probably not effectively playable civs:
Primitive Tribes (scattered across islands & isolated valleys throughout Earth, and possibly beyond)
Lizard Men (stand-ins for Tharks, Sagoths, & Morlocks)
Celestials
Selenites (Luna)
Mongons (Mongo & its inhabited moons)
Orovars (Barsoomians)
Amtorians (Venus)
Agarthans (Hollow Earth)

Some excellent suggestions to cherry pick there. And some I had never heard of before and will need to google :)

Although my current emphasis is on the Lost Worlds (look out for a progress update soon), I am thinking about a total revamp for "Steampunk: Earth Conquests" as the variant on the World Map is coming to be known (name courtesy of Balthasar).

Here's the ones I like best from your list:

-The Dogal States - perhaps they would also have trading colonies in India and Far East -legacy of Marco Polo?

-The Hanseatic League - some nice competition for the Dogal States and perhaps have overseas trading colonies in the Carribean, Africa and Americas. Perhaps they even supplant a British presence in the New World?

-Grand Republican Empire of Kalifexas - you did say Norton would have a suitably grand name for his "Empire" and you certainly came up with one. Kalifexas LOL.

-Bharata Varsha - I was always going to have a stronger (unified) India in there: surely an India with command of Steam Elephants would be unstoppable (on land at least)

-River of Ma’at - I think an Egypt strongly flavoured by Ancient Egypt & Steampunk technology would be fascinating. I think they'd be strong on the more spiritual aspects of a Steampunk world particularly in dealings with the dead.

-Byzantium - I've always had a big thing for the Byzantines. They could be grand political schemers but funnily I'd prefer them as Orthodox: The Arrogant Bulwark of Europe!


Some I think are great but...

-Anglo Empire - I had thought of a different spin on this. A republic evolved from the English civil war where the Royalists never regained power, led by a Lord Protector. This would be a slightly dyspotic "Great" Britain with a populace oppressed/repressed by Puritan ideals. They would make interesting enemies for a Papal States Civ. Then I thought how quintessentialy steampunk "Victoriana" is and decided to keep the conventional/historic Victorian GB.

-Free Bohemia - but wouldn't they be lousy fighters?

-Sri Vijaya - I had these guys in in an earlier inception. Then I changed them to a trading empire of Siam that was a vassal state of China or at least closely tied to them. May still change them back though but I like Siam.

-The Great Hoop - I will stick though with my United Indian Territories led by Tecumseh (a fascinating individual). I have a great interest in and admiration of American Indian culture.

-Lost Tribes- yes need to have these in any steampunk world: a perfect antithesis to a techonological utopia/dystopia is a primitive paradise/barbarous land. My only contribution to this was going to be Dinosaurs, Great Apes and Amazon unit scattered throughout the world map (non-playable of course and possibly just barbarian units/camps).

-Celestials - On an Earth map they should not have a strong presence. I was going to have a few crash sites of a (botched) Selenite Expeditionary Force whose aim is to stop Earth's advanced civilisations from gaining spaceflight technology. Martians are a more logical choice but I wanted aliens who where perhaps not so overwhelmingly advanced and powerful. Also, I think Selenites rock LOL - an intelligent social insect race was a great imaginative creation by Verne considering he did it back in 1901(?).

Other ideas:
I always liked the idea of having ancient powers survive to modern times: Aztecs and Incas for instance. Even though these are wild suggestions I cannot force myself to disbelieve in an alternate reality where they do not survive. Actual history seems the most unfeasible outcome (you are always remarking that history is stranger than fiction) where Conquistadors numbering in hundreds (I know they had help from other natives and disease) brought down a large Empire. I have been many times around the British Museum in London and the Aztecs seem the most "alien" culture I have encountered.

River of Ma'at technology - there's the whole pyramids / ark as power sources thing & the whole possibilities of a sort of steampunk stargate thing - Tim Powers "Gates of Anubis"? & maybe some tie in to the war against that darned squid god.

Free Bohemia - maybe not a strong power in terms of conquest, but think about the whole "Huss Memorial Brigade" thing, liked happened in our world during the Spanish Civil War; that there's already a "Wobbly" bomb-throwing unit (invisible + hidden nationality); and that this is the culture (in my counterfactual history) that gave us Tesla. They could be pretty hard to successfully invade, & strong on culture flipping & espionage missions.

Primitive Tribes - I was thinking that this "weaker" civ ought to have some one-off non-buildable special units. Maybe guarding a victory point - like, say, a remote island with a giant ape. Or a rare resource guarded by an undead army. And I'd like them as a civ - so there would be the possibility of negotiation & trade. Although it could be fun to set them up so that they share colors & units with the barbarians. That could reflect the difficulties of colonial imperialists subduing the natives.

The extra-planetary civs should not, of course, be included in an "Earth Conquests" biq. My thinking on the celestials was that they not have access to technologies that would let them invade Earth. Bronze Age civs as Burroughs had them, with some slightly weird techs giving them some "unusual" units or improvements. Mongo might be a possible exception, although their spacecraft could be non-buildable and therefore limited. As to the contact thing - perhaps there could be some pre-placed units on Earth - they might conquer a city or two, but not really invade. In the "EQ" version, perhaps they could exist as special one-offs, autoproduced, or UUs for those civs (Ma'at?) with an Atlantean/Lemurian connection. Possibly, in "Sceptre & Orbs", teleportation tech as a late era counter to Earth's aetheric flyers.

I also thought it might be fun to go the other way, and place some of the more primitive Earth units, like some Mayans or Egyptians, on the other planets. "A mysterious hand in the prehistory of humanity". That way there would be some competition for the indigenous celestials. And of course the flagitious lizard men showing up everywhere, as a scatter-shot nuisance.

I did think about hyperlinking some of the civs, like Bambara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambara_Empire), & Empire of Brasyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Brazil). I was under time pressure this morning. I can certainly explain any of them further, in answer to queries.