Please understand I don't want to single out any particular team.

I totally and completely understand that some teams are struggling with lack of participation and complications from technical difficulties due to playing on the unpatched Civ4. I honestly feel really bad for these teams, and appreciate those that are soldiering on and doing their best. :salute:

However – as the turns continue to drag on, the participation problems are seeming to become worse and worse and I'm getting worried that this game is just going to die a slow gasping death and never be finished. That would be a tragedy for all the hours people have invested in this.

The last few turns have taken a week to turn around – and the current one has been stalled for 4 days and counting.

Can we come up with a solution to ensure that the game keeps moving?
Maybe the solution is to have a Mod open the save, fortify any units, and set cities to building wealth if a team takes more than 48 hours without posting in the turn tracker?

I mean, our rules for this game say:

3.1. Time Allowed
Each team is allowed 24 hours to play the save and send it to the next team. If they are unable to do so, they may ask the administrators for an extension. No team has to use all 24 hours; please play promptly.

3.6. Punishments for Violations
All violations of these rules will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis by the administrators. Punishment will not be overly harsh or severe. It may included, but is not limited to, skipping of a turn, …



So what I've proposed seems a pretty fair and light "punishment" as it doubles the time allowed, and the turn isn't totally skipped.

Anyway – I'm not committed to any one plan – I just want to open this up to discussion so our game doesn't die.
Let's finish this game so we can start fighting about settings for a BTS MTDG! :D (Maybe with 3 teams and 2 AI, so each team has more people = hopefully better participation?)

I would rather not get involved in PLAYING the turns, but instead getting the teams to play the turns themselves. I understand that some teams are having trouble doing that, but I'm sometimes I will be busy and not able to play the turns for a few days.

I think we need the teams that are suffering from a lack of participation/time constraints to post here describing WHAT we can do to help.

We need someone who has dual install to play our save, my computer still doesn't accept the dual install.

:dubious: So have all of these people been contacted and approached to be a turnplayer?

RoboPig
koondrad
Emp. Killyouall
xyourxmomxcorex
I am the Future
Dux_
gakkun
ranathari
aephelan
jeejeep
Karl Townsend
Jamppa
potatokiosk
joyodongo
King Flevance
Illini Rule
jojon
admiral-bell
Karhu
ml_4da3
erikthecelt
Joe Harker
levyavi
cubsfan6506

I emailed a couple of friends of mine who aren't on these forums to see if they could help out.

Another thing to consider is posting a "Help Wanted" advert in the PBEM forum ;)

@Joe – that stinks! I'm sorry. I've had struggles getting a dual install on my PC also, so I feel your pain. ;)
Fortunately, I was able to just give up on it, thanks to the other members of my team that were able to make it work.


It's now been a little over 120 hours since the save was passed on.

While I totally understand that no one is "at fault" here – the rules exist to keep the game fair, fun, and moving.
I'm not looking for a penalty or punishment… but I don't want to see the game just sit here.
If someone from LOCO can say "give us 2 more days, then we'll play" – then I'm ok with that.
I just hope we're not going to continues to sit here and wait with no idea if things will ever change until finally no one is even bothering to check this forum for activity.

I've tried to pick up the play for Loco, but my dual install has been modified by the last patch. I haven't seen any other posts in the Team thread, so it doesn't look good. Sorry folks.

If the dual install doesn't work uninstalling Civ 4 only works....

then reinstall civ 4 and patch to 1.64.

after that Beyond the swords & warlords work fine still.

The only thing would be if you have other vanilla games that need to be fully updated.

I'm in favor of just updating the game to the latest patch.

It is unfortunate that Aloha loose their cavalry bonus but the dual install (triple install with the latest BtS patch) has drastically reduced the number of active players. What do you say Hawaiians, would you take one for the team?

That does seem to be the most reasonable thing to do.

With the Cavalry receiving a -25% reduction versus other cavalry, i would think a 1 time, increase of say 20% of thier total cavalry could balance this.

Meaning if Aloha has 10 Cossaks, then they would get 2 units modded in for free and let that be the balance.

That doesn't quite balance out.

5 cossacks at +50% [prepatch:strength: vs mounted] = (5*18) + 50% = 180 :strength:

180 / (18 + 25% [postpatch:strength: vs mounted]) = 8

So for every 5 postpatch cossacks produced, they should be gifted an additional 3.

If Aloha is currently fielding 10 cavalry, they would be gifted an additional 6.

But these things get a little screwy - the overall strength is preserved, but that strength is divided up among more attackers, and that's not really fair either :dunno:

Maybe a better solution is for Aloha to take over playing Loco's turns? :crazyeye:

:joke:

Hey Joe ~

Based on this in the DemoGame Thread....Can you play now?!?!

Quote:
of course if it is just for one game you *could* do the following:
copy the CvCoreGameDLL.dll of Vanilla to a save place (or just rename it) then reapply the 1.74 patch. When you are done copy the saved .dll over the 1.74 one or reapply the 3.13 patch.
This is awkward but the easiest way if you cannot go dual install and want to play this to the glorious end.
Unfortunately my RL does not allow me to join this so good luck y'all

Thanks ori It seems to work.
__________________
Join the CFC Socialist Party at the Model Parliament

This game is v 1.61 i believe, my verison is 1.74.

I don't object to waiting for a team that can say, "We had X problem, please give us Y amount of time to play."
I do have a problem with just "We have X problem" – with absolutely no indication of when the save might actually get played.

How long will we wait before something is done? A week? Two weeks? A Month? If there's light at the end of the tunnel, I don't mind waiting. If we're just continuing to drive in the dark with no hope, I'd rather take the first exit ramp, even if it's less than ideal.

Keying off what Peter suggested - this is kind of a wild thought, but I know for a fact we have several very honorable players on Epsilon that would be willing to take general orders via PM (build this, move these units here), then play the turn for LOCO, following their orders exactly, without looking at anything more than absolutely necessary, and then not posting a single thing about what they saw or did in our threads.

I'm confident there are players on the other teams that would be able to do this for LOCO also.


144 hours now. The rules say 24. How much longer before we even get an idea of how much longer we have to wait?

I don't know what to do, no one seems to be responing, to my messages, or if they do, they don't have 1.61 and seem to not want to dual install (can't really blame them)

I had another go tonight and the computer did not like it at all, it crashed and i had to restore it using Norton ghost.

If someone would like to play the save for us, it would be very welcomed, I am perfectly happy with given orders to them for our team.

I'll play Loco's turn. Please forward the save and instructions to edandjane@gci.net

Is this a 1 turn solution or until further notice. Also I still think upgrading is the best thing for long term.

Upgrading will be great – but I just don't see how it's workable to balance that for Aloha. If we can't get G_A or RegentMan to play a few turns, it seems even less likely we'll get them to Mod a solution that everyone can find acceptable in a reasonable amount of time. I think we just have to wait till Cossacks are obsolete before we upgrade.

I'd nominate DaveMcW to play the save.
But I'm also ok with 1889 doing it – as long as he pledges to not reveal any info from playing it. You know… not mentioning the Epsilon Tanks he may or may not see in LOCO's land… that sort of thing. :)

I think this solution will work till LOCO can find a turn player. If 1889 needs a break, someone else can step up I'm sure.

EDIT: @ Joe – thanks for trying again. I appreciate it. Life is just like that sometimes.

Shall we wait for the other teams agreement, or just get on with it?

Personally I think Pfiffle would be the best team to play for Loco.

for a couple of reasons:

1. they go right after them and can in essence "double play"
2. they are the furthest away geologically.
Nothing against DaveMcW or 1889, but currently Epsilon is at war with Loco, and in the past Innovia was at War with them.

True, we never really talk with Piffle and i don't think we have any major deals with them so someone from their team would be good.

Upgrading will be great – but I just don't see how it's workable to balance that for Aloha. If we can't get G_A or RegentMan to play a few turns, it seems even less likely we'll get them to Mod a solution that everyone can find acceptable in a reasonable amount of time. I think we just have to wait till Cossacks are obsolete before we upgrade.

I'd nominate DaveMcW to play the save.
But I'm also ok with 1889 doing it – as long as he pledges to not reveal any info from playing it. You know… not mentioning the Epsilon Tanks he may or may not see in LOCO's land… that sort of thing. :)

I think this solution will work till LOCO can find a turn player. If 1889 needs a break, someone else can step up I'm sure.

EDIT: @ Joe – thanks for trying again. I appreciate it. Life is just like that sometimes.

The problem is Cossaks are not obsolete until tanks. Although it would seem piffle have changed tactics recently and are sending over redcoats instead.

Maybe a bonus based on the relative amounts of cavs/cossasks both of us have could be worked out. I'm assuming no one else has any plans to attack aloha in the near future.

True, we never really talk with Piffle and i don't think we have any major deals with them so someone from their team would be good.
:agree: Why don't you go ahead and PM your instructions to Conroe - and refer him to this thread, since they haven't really looked here much lately it would seem.

If Conroe goes for it - I'd say problem solved.

Thanks for being flexible Joe. :)

PM sent to Conroe.

Great solution, if it works!

Thanks for trying the install again, Joe. You've been more than patient :hatsoff:

If Conroe goes for it - I'd say problem solved.To be honest, I am not comfortable playing Loco's save. In fact, I am pretty much 100% against the idea of someone from another team playing Loco's save. It would be one thing if this were a casual game among friends. But this MTDG was not created nor defined as a casual game. To say that the individual playing Loco's save will ignore any "spoiler" information learned from Loco is one thing. Actually putting that principle into action is something I believe to be considerably more difficult.

The inability to comment because of spoiler information may lead fellow team members to read inferences into moments of silence. What if these assumptions are then used to formulate strategy? One would be prohibited from breaking silence to correct any misinformation. Even subtle information that is unknowingly gleaned from Loco's save could change the turn player's thought processes and future strategizing. And this can happen no matter how well intentioned the individual playing Loco's save.

I firmly believe this is a bad idea all the way around. Piffle couldn't help but glean information from seeing Loco's research and tech trades with her two allies. And what if Loco's map of Aloha is more current than Piffle's? If Aloha or Innovia were to play the save, it would allow them first hand knowledge of Epsilon's troop composition and tactics. What if Epsilon is planning on one of them next? The same applies to Piffle, should Epsilon be planning a backstab. These and other questions we really cannot answer in a public discussion. And Epsilon playing the save ... they are at war with Loco, for cryin' out loud. I can't think of a bigger conflict of interest.

No, I will not be playing Loco's save. And while I'm up here on my soapbox, I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed in our administrators. Maybe I'm just misinformed about the role of an MTDG administrator. But it seems to me they should be the ones facilitating an orderly move of the save from team to team. They have been quite silent on the issues affecting this game.

So for every 5 postpatch cossacks produced, they should be gifted an additional 3.Ummmm ... NO! From my perspective, Aloha has quite enough Cossacks as it is, thank you very much. ;)

Well maybe this will get them a turn player:

Plea for Help (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6047863#post6047863)

I'm against anyone from piffle playing Loco's saves. We have had trades with Loco which could give spoiler info to a team we are fighting currently

Ok so i think that plan goes out the window.


I really am struggling to get anyone to come up and play.

Is there any possiblities of a neutral person playing the save.

Hopefully someone bites on my "ad" in the multiplayer & Pbem thread :)

Thanks for setting that up! :goodjob:

I sent a plea to the Admins via PM.

To be honest, I am not comfortable playing Loco's save. In fact, I am pretty much 100% against the idea of someone from another team playing Loco's save. It would be one thing if this were a casual game among friends. But this MTDG was not created nor defined as a casual game. To say that the individual playing Loco's save will ignore any "spoiler" information learned from Loco is one thing. Actually putting that principle into action is something I believe to be considerably more difficult.

The inability to comment because of spoiler information may lead fellow team members to read inferences into moments of silence. What if these assumptions are then used to formulate strategy? One would be prohibited from breaking silence to correct any misinformation. Even subtle information that is unknowingly gleaned from Loco's save could change the turn player's thought processes and future strategizing. And this can happen no matter how well intentioned the individual playing Loco's save.

I firmly believe this is a bad idea all the way around. Piffle couldn't help but glean information from seeing Loco's research and tech trades with her two allies. And what if Loco's map of Aloha is more current than Piffle's? If Aloha or Innovia were to play the save, it would allow them first hand knowledge of Epsilon's troop composition and tactics. What if Epsilon is planning on one of them next? The same applies to Piffle, should Epsilon be planning a backstab. These and other questions we really cannot answer in a public discussion. And Epsilon playing the save ... they are at war with Loco, for cryin' out loud. I can't think of a bigger conflict of interest.

No, I will not be playing Loco's save. And while I'm up here on my soapbox, I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed in our administrators. Maybe I'm just misinformed about the role of an MTDG administrator. But it seems to me they should be the ones facilitating an orderly move of the save from team to team. They have been quite silent on the issues affecting this game.

Ummmm ... NO! From my perspective, Aloha has quite enough Cossacks as it is, thank you very much. ;)

I believe we decided back in the day that DaveShack became moderator that any spoiler information available to someone on one of the teams is just asking for trouble.

Could one of Admins play from the knowledge of what is going on in the Loco Forums?

Hi,

I'm with Conroe on this one, and I'm glad he won't play the save. The resulting conflict of interests would only cause problems, and would give after-game discussions a bad taste.

I really hope Memphus' plea will find some new team members for Loco, but I imagine getting into this game at this point, in mid-war, will be very challenging. Because Succession Game players have a lot of experience in jumping into games played by other players, I've posted a note on the SG forum as well, here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=247236). (Memphus, I hope you don't mind that I copied your post. :) )

-Kylearan

Well i guess i'll play devil's advocate and ask this question.

Even if we got the game going again is it worth continuing?

I don't know what it is like with the other teams but alohas forum was pretty dead before this stoppage. I'm not saying i want the game to die but if each team only has a couple of people playing then is it really worth finishing it.

I mean really can you call it a multi team demo game if you don't actually have a team :crazyeye: And can you call it a democracy if there is only one person :lol:

If a team isn't interested in continuing to play, they always have the option of retiring.

I would really hate to see that happen, because that goes against the spirit of signing up for one of these undertakings.

I'm not just taking this position because I happen to be on Epsilon. If I could, I'd be playing out Loco's save in the interest of seeing a task through to completion.

To be honest, I've never really understood the whole idea of the 'Democracy' component of these games. After all, it's up to each team to devise a decision-making structure that suits their collective style. But just because there are only two people active on a team does not imply that the game isn't worth continuing!

Retiring will just give it over to the AI, so that would not be too bad. It is a shame that there are no others players willing to play the game on that team.

:agree: I'd say if we can't find a new player in the next week, LOCO should retire.
No one wants to see it happen - but I think it'd be a very bad precedent for everyone to just quit.
I (for one) would like to finish this game.

Can you retire to AI in a pbem?

Also if you look at the save itself, the game has been running for over 172 hours, that is just the turn players having the save open.

If you were too look at all the threads & posts, the amount of time spent is much to large to justify letting it all fall apart.

Ideally a turn player would be great, but retiring is another option (yes it can be done in PBEM)

As I was conducting a test on retirement in pbem, I got this message :lol:

So how about if we can't recruit a new player by next monday and Aloha still dosen't want to upgrade we ask Loco to allow a mod to retire them?

We haven't fully explored the option of upgrading to 1.74 with some sort of compensation to Aloha.

Obviously, if no power ever fields mounted units against Aloha, this patch issue is mute :mischief:

But patching up to 1.74 seems to be a sound solution, if we can all agree on a fair way to adjust for Aloha's Cossacks.

The 8:5 ratio I had proposed, and which Conroe negated, was only a first attempt to correct for the :strength: adjustment of the patch. Clearly, more work and thought has to be devoted to this.

But I don't even know if it's all that simple to mod in units like this - and if it is easy, then can't we simply 'unmod' the +25% bonus vs. mounted back to +50%? I suppose that all the turnplayers would have install the same mod.... :hmm:

I can play for Team Loco if that is the preferred solution.

That would defiently be a prefered solution!!!! Wow Chamnix you would really save this game :) :salute: Please sign up ASAP!!

However we would now be enemies :evil: ;)

You guys missed part of the point of my question. So far no one has said their team situation and how they are doing for players. I see Conroe has played the last 150 odd turns, is there anyone at piffle that could take over if he went on holiday? I know aloha would be struggling to find a player if i wasn't available. What about Innovia and Epsilon? Sure we can get Loco going again but if its likely that something similar can happen to other teams then is it worth continuing...

I am sure that Epsilon has plenty of players who can take over the turns should something happen. It does seem to be that we are the most active team right now.

Speaking for Innovia, I think we've got at least 2, and probably up to 5 players who could take the save within a reasonable time.

No offense Rob but allowing us to patch will dramatically increase the number of people who can play, but for the time being there is still enough interest.

Personally, I think Robi D has a valid point. Piffle participation was, at best, poor when I took over as turn player. I think it is safe to say that it has reached the pathetic level over the last couple of months.

I firmly believe that it is no coincidence that the two teams without any significant participation issues are the two teams that still have a shot at winning this game. Now I am NOT suggesting we abandon this game; far from it. But instead realize just how difficult it is to motivate and encourage participation when the conclusion is foregone.

I see Conroe has played the last 150 odd turns, is there anyone at piffle that could take over if he went on holiday?Well, the last time I went on vacation, it stopped until I got back.

Well I think Chamnix should definetly play for Loco... we'll deal with other teams not playing as that arises...

I agree. So Chamnix should get access to the Team Loco forum now, right? I figure all details on getting the save should be there, along with any strategies (I've heard that there are teams with a strategy, maybe we should be using one too :crazyeye:)

allowing us to patch will dramatically increase the number of people who can play

...which is precisely why I'm confused that the discussion of patching up can't seem to get off the ground. Twice I've tried to start the discussions, to no avail.

It is unrealistic to ask a team to give up a tactical advantage in the middle of a war without some sort of balancing compensation. Clearly, adding in more units is not the best solution. But I'm really drawing a blank as to how else to do it. For that matter, does anyone even know if it's feasible to mod-in units?

If units can be modded in, then why not upgrade to 1.74, and re-mod the Cossacks to +50% vs mounted? That was Aloha continues playing with the unit they signed up for, and the rest of the game is unaffected.

EDIT: Participation will go back up once the game moves along at more than a turn every 2 weeks :coffee:

...which is precisely why I'm confused that the discussion of patching up can't seem to get off the ground. Twice I've tried to start the discussions, to no avail.

It is unrealistic to ask a team to give up a tactical advantage in the middle of a war without some sort of balancing compensation. Clearly, adding in more units is not the best solution. But I'm really drawing a blank as to how else to do it. For that matter, does anyone even know if it's feasible to mod-in units?

If units can be modded in, then why not upgrade to 1.74, and re-mod the Cossacks to +50% vs mounted? That was Aloha continues playing with the unit they signed up for, and the rest of the game is unaffected.

EDIT: Participation will go back up once the game moves along at more than a turn every 2 weeks :shakehead:

I *think* that's possible if the first person to open the save after it has been unlocked (an admin), opens it in some "MTDG" mod, and all turnplayers have this mod. This mod would only have to be one file with unit information, and with one change, the cossack. So I think it's possible.

This game is certainly obsolete. Team members cannot open saves, which adds to the lack of participation. The game is a pbem, another archaic format with Pitboss around. Some people would need to do triple installs (old vanilla patch, old warlords patch, current BTS patch) to play the turn when the normal turnplayer cannot.

I would be in favor of starting a new BTS pitboss game and declaring a winner here. The advantages to this are many:

1) Ease of use for all team members, there never should be a lack of turnplayers.
2) The game will play faster. We can probably reach the endgame faster in a new pitboss than keeping with this game.
3) More gameplay options.
4) Better balance.

Im sure there are many more things. Lets just put this thing to rest and start a new one. Perhaps bug Gyathaar to make a map, bug someone to lend a pitboss comp, keep the same or similar rules, keep the same or similar teams, and we can be under way within a week playing 4 times faster, or at the current rate of 1 turn a week... however many times faster that is!

I disagree that this game is obsolete. If that were the case, there wouldn't still be a civ3 mtdg.

The only people who can't open saves are those people who have patched up and can't do a dual install. There are several people on Epsilon who regularly open the saves.

If modding, as Dutchfire indicates, is a possiblilty, then we should explore that.

Everyone knew going into this game it was going to be a long one. We can always start another one along side this one, but I think it's a very bad idea to "put this one to rest".

Let's keep the discussion focused on how to keep this game moving, not how to kill it.

I'm not sure the winner of this game is quite to the level of "forgone conclusion" just yet.

However, I totally agree that the 2 biggest problems are 1) The mind-numbingly slow pace recently and 2) The great difficulty in being able to play the game unpatched.

@Peter – I think the reason the discussion about patching and then trying to balance the game keeps getting stalled is because we all agree with you that trying to add units to Aloha is not a very good method to balance, no one has a better idea, and even if we did have a better idea, we can't even get an Admin to play save – I have very little hope we can get one to do an extensive Mod of the game for us.

If Chamnix is going to play for LOCO, let's just press on and see if it we can get a little further in this game.

As much as I would hate to just see this game end with a whimper, I suppose I'd be willing to accept a mass surrender to Epsilon Team. The Leader stands ready to welcome all with a true heart into the eternal light of his embrace. You'll all bow the knee someday – come willingly, or we'll be forced to use more… "persuasive"… methods :)

Just a lurkers thought but what about patching and then worldbuildering Formation promotions onto the currently available cossacks. This would take it back to the +50% it would've been, and the only problems being the bonus carries over to upgrade, and maybe losing the promotion should it already be promoted. Both are kind of moot I think.

I thought that worldbuilder wasn't available in the menu during multiplayer :hmm:

I disagree that this game is obsolete. If that were the case, there wouldn't still be a civ3 mtdg.

The only people who can't open saves are those people who have patched up and can't do a dual install. There are several people on Epsilon who regularly open the saves.

If modding, as Dutchfire indicates, is a possiblilty, then we should explore that.

Everyone knew going into this game it was going to be a long one. We can always start another one along side this one, but I think it's a very bad idea to "put this one to rest".

Let's keep the discussion focused on how to keep this game moving, not how to kill it.
True enough. The only downside of starting a game alongside this one is that in theory, participation will be drawn from this 1.61 game. Or will it? If the subforum is set up right beside this one, signups go out, and new people start jotting their names down, some may see the 1.61 game and show interest in it.

Maybe some mod guidance here would be good. Im sure we could all make do with what Ginger Ale decides.

I'm surprised there haven't been any definitive answers on the persistent "what if we gave some compensation" questions.

Generally speaking, it is not possible to modify the MP save, for example to give a team more units. Nor is it possible to convert an unmodded game to a modded game. It might be technically possible to modify the game's features by treating the modification like an unofficial "patch" and converting to it with the admin pw removed, but that would impact all turnplayers normal games. Plus I don't know if the variables which need to be changed are accessible.

So the other way of looking at it without revealing to much strategy of the game is:

Piffle and Aloha are at war right now. Piffle can build for their attack (defense) either Redcoats, or Cavalry. Knowing Aloha has + 50% versus any Cavalry Piffle would build I can't see them building anymore of that type of unit....

Even if the advantage was diminished to +25%, the Redcoat has a strength of 16 and a +25% bonus agaisn't mounted units...the logical choice to me is to build only redcoats.

The other option is for other teams to Attack Aloha in the next 30 games turns before Cossacks become obsolete, well I know I can say for epsilon that sending over a Cavalry unit would be about the biggest waste of :hammers: I can think of.

As it stands it doesn't make sense for anyone to attack Aloha with Mounted units with a 50% bonus or a 25% bonus because it is just a bad fighting situation.

So to me aloha takes one for the team and accepts and we patch up.

Again I can't answer for Piffle or aloha in thier war, but when was the last casulty that Piffle suffered on a Cavalry?

Ok in an attempt to get this game moving how does this offer sound to piffle.

For the reduction of the cossak bonus against other horses will agree to wear it on the chin with no extra units or any other modding of the game. In exchange we ask for a 15 turn ceasefire to adjust to the new situation.

Is that suitable to piffle?

So while we are waiting for Piffle to answer. Why hasn't Chamnix been given access to Loco's team so the save can move again?

He hasn't requested it yet, for one thing ;)

Actually I have put in the request in my user group page. I didn't post in the sign-up thread because I don't really intend to sign up - I'm planning just to follow orders, and I'm only playing at all if it is decided that you want to continue unpatched, and you need an extra turnplayer :).

Well then I would say Loco shouls send the save and the orders to you :)

So while we are waiting for Piffle to answer.Well actually, I wasn't planning on answering it. Seems a bit of a loaded question, to me. I see no way of answering it without giving insight into our strategy. Who knows, even stating that fact may be revealing to Aloha! Maybe I shouldn't care, given Epsilon's strategy analysis post. :crazyeye: But I am just not comfortable discussing in-game activities in a public thread such as this one.

Well actually, I wasn't planning on answering it. Seems a bit of a loaded question, to me. I see no way of answering it without giving insight into our strategy. Who knows, even stating that fact may be revealing to Aloha! Maybe I shouldn't care, given Epsilon's strategy analysis post. :crazyeye: But I am just not comfortable discussing in-game activities in a public thread such as this one.

Ok well that is fair enough. But without answering the question the game doesn't move and thus there is no strategy to defend.

Either way you look at it we need some resolution to get the game moving....

But without answering the question the game doesn't move...

Incorrect. Without answering the question, the game can proceed unpatched, with Chamnix playing Loco's turns.

If the decision was to patch, then, indeed, Piffle must answer.

But I really think that at this point, Chamnix should step in as Loco's turnplayer, let the game move along, and we'll cross the next bridge if/when we come to it. :)

[/$.02]

Well actually, I wasn't planning on answering it. Seems a bit of a loaded question, to me. I see no way of answering it without giving insight into our strategy. Who knows, even stating that fact may be revealing to Aloha! Maybe I shouldn't care, given Epsilon's strategy analysis post. :crazyeye: But I am just not comfortable discussing in-game activities in a public thread such as this one.

:confused: How is that a loaded question? We put forward a proposal to make everyones life simplier. Saying yes, no or offering a counter proposal is hardly giving insight into any strategy. In fact given Piffle play to date i am shocked to learn they actually have one:p

:clap: wehoo the save moved :salute:

:run: WOOT! :woohoo:

Let's hope that things move smoothly now :clap:

:confused: How is that a loaded question? We put forward a proposal to make everyones life simplier. Saying yes, no or offering a counter proposal is hardly giving insight into any strategy. In fact given Piffle play to date i am shocked to learn they actually have one:pBe that as it may, my position remains unchanged. I feel that there has been enough spoiler talk already in this thread. I am going to have to decline explaining my position, so as to not add to the problem.

And I sincerely apologize to you if you found my remarks offensive. I assure you that no offense was intended.

As for Piffle's lack of a coherent strategy, this is entirely due to a lack of participation. I am uncomfortable forcing my will upon the team, even when the team is in absentia. Over the last month, there have been a total of 5 posts in the Piffle forum not made by me. Of those five, 3 of them were made yesterday.

Be that as it may, my position remains unchanged. I feel that there has been enough spoiler talk already in this thread. I am going to have to decline explaining my position, so as to not add to the problem.

And I sincerely apologize to you if you found my remarks offensive. I assure you that no offense was intended.

As for Piffle's lack of a coherent strategy, this is entirely due to a lack of participation. I am uncomfortable forcing my will upon the team, even when the team is in absentia. Over the last month, there have been a total of 5 posts in the Piffle forum not made by me. Of those five, 3 of them were made yesterday.


I think you have take the last part of my response more seriously then it was intended to be

This thread has given me a whole new respect for what Sadat and Begin accomplished.

Can we just call this game dead and be done with it.

Well, RobiD - for what it's worth, I've responded to your PM, and it's favorable.

However - I suppose the teams that have lost their joy/lost too many players could always retire and turn control over to the AI. That really warps the game, but would be preferable to just totally giving up on the game, imo.

Well aloha wont be one of them. We still have a solid 5 or 6 of us.

Epsilon is in that boat too (5 Solid players and 4-6 lurkers).

Chamnix seems to be moving it quite quickly for Loco. :salute:

Aloha & Innovia move the save quickly.

It is only Piffle who has been struggling as of Late...

I posted the comment to see if anyone else was still awake :)
Nice to find out its not just me.

On the positive front we are hopefully on the verge of any agreement to get the game patch for the new turn.

Also when we get the game patch i would propose a trial period until christmas to see if this game is sustainable. The slow turn speed is a killing the game. Honestly if we cant average a 3 day turnaround over the next 6 weeks with the new patch then the game will die anyway. If we can do that then it will at least keep what interest is left alive.

So I'm a little confused - are we patching or not?

We were close but there was a sticking point over a new development in the game.

If you're still looking for a 1.61 player, I can join. I just re-installed CivIV (hadn't had the disc for several months) and have version 1.00 right now. I'd just need to be briefed on what all is going on, what the teams are, how Democracy works (if, indeed there's any left with the apparent player shortages), and any other unique features of a Multi-Team Democracy Game (haven't spend too much time reading up on it since there isn't one starting up right now).

I have played in a PBEM before, but my CivIV skill level is Noble and I haven't played any CivIV since July.