Seeking Help with Bug Triage

Now that more people are using BUG, we're getting more bug reports. This is great as it helps us find problems, but I feel we're getting a little swamped. I haven't had enough time to fix bugs, let alone track them.

So, I'm putting out a request for anyone in the community that would like to help out with a little time by doing bug triage. It may not sound sexy (though feel free to call yourself a field medic), but what it means is that you'd take bug reports from the forums and put them into a tracker or spreadsheet, describe it, and assign a severity (how harsh the bug is).

Once there, it's easier for the coders to pick out the bugs that are highest priority or in their skill area so we can fix them quickly without having to remember them or scour the forum posts. Sometimes I have a half hour and could fix a bug or two, and any time I don't spend rereading posts to pick which to fix is more bugs fixed.

If anyone has a little free time and would like to help the project, please PM me. You don't need any experience with coding, and you don't have to worry about committing a set amount of time.

For any career-minded individuals, this would be experience applicable to Quality Assurance, something still sorely lacking in a lot of software I think we can all agree.

Seeking Help with Bug Triage

Now that more people are using BUG, we're getting more bug reports. This is great as it helps us find problems, but I feel we're getting a little swamped. I haven't had enough time to fix bugs, let alone track them.

So, I'm putting out a request for anyone in the community that would like to help out with a little time by doing bug triage. It may not sound sexy (though feel free to call yourself a field medic), but what it means is that you'd take bug reports from the forums and put them into a tracker or spreadsheet, describe it, and assign a severity (how harsh the bug is).

Once there, it's easier for the coders to pick out the bugs that are highest priority or in their skill area so we can fix them quickly without having to remember them or scour the forum posts. Sometimes I have a half hour and could fix a bug or two, and any time I don't spend rereading posts to pick which to fix is more bugs fixed.

If anyone has a little free time and would like to help the project, please PM me. You don't need any experience with coding, and you don't have to worry about committing a set amount of time.

For any career-minded individuals, this would be experience applicable to Quality Assurance, something still sorely lacking in a lot of software I think we can all agree.

I'm doing it, both for Bugs and features.

Cool. I've been so busy I'm barely keeping up with the threads I'm replying to. I've got my little text file of features and bugs, but it doesn't scale.

Are you putting bugs in the SF.net tracker? That's really the way to go, but I haven't had enough time to set up the components and categories. Part of my resistance is that I don't really like their bug tracker.

Let me know where you are tracking things and I'll switch over. Thanks for doing it.

In any case, here's my latest file:


* Fix INI writing to all locations
Did fixing the "install as a mod" docs fix this problem entirely?

* Fix CDA readme

* UnitUpgrades don't work with new upgrade paths

* Civ4lerts:
* Get alerts about trades even when civ won't talk to you
+ New alerts:
+ Civ will talk to you
+ Civ will go to war
+ Civ will stop trading
+ "Too much on our hands"
+ "WFYABTA"
+ Whip anger decreases by one
+ City no longer unhappy/unhealthy

+ Naming
+ Each time a combat-type format is used for the first time, popup a dialog to preview it
Requires storing this info (easy) and a popup (medium)

Format: xxxx
Preview: yyyy

Accept
Try Again

* i18n
* Raw Commerce / Production
(1 hour)
* Options/Tabs/Labels
(lots of grunt work splitting them out)
* Need generic way to access them using option's key.


DLL Ideas
---------

+ Ctrl-click specialist +/- buttons adds/removes all possible

* Hover Text

* City
+ GP Turns
+ Culture Turns
+ Happiness/Health
+ Whip Overflow & Hammers/Pop

* Unit Stack
+ Min MPs of all in stack
* MP as decimal

* GP Bar
+ If no city, find next city

Cool. I've been so busy I'm barely keeping up with the threads I'm replying to. I've got my little text file of features and bugs, but it doesn't scale.

Are you putting bugs in the SF.net tracker? That's really the way to go, but I haven't had enough time to set up the components and categories. Part of my resistance is that I don't really like their bug tracker.

Let me know where you are tracking things and I'll switch over. Thanks for doing it.



For now, I'm simply making a tab with:

- Bug (or Required feature) description
- link to the post(s) speaking of it
- BUG Team member working on it (or simply saing that he can do it in future)
- status

It is not as good as it could be, but still IMHO it's a good starting point, and it's easy and quick to be consulted.

I've completed all the threads but the original thread (I will not do it, I suppose everything there is obsolete now).

The list of reported bugs and requested improvements has been completed.
It's in a file called Development List.doc inside the Extra Stuff in the SVN repo.
The rows need to be reordered according to priority and severity grade order, that I didn't assign (I could do it for bugs, but in the team there are people better than me for doing so, and I could't for features) .

It will be wonderful if all the BUG&BAT Team members could look a bit at it, in particular checking the "status" column, because for some of them I had to put an "unknown" label, and assigning priorities. :)

The list of reported bugs and requested improvements has been completed.
It's in a file called Development List.doc inside the Extra Stuff in the SVN repo.
The rows need to be reordered according to priority and severity grade order, that I didn't assign (I could do it for bugs, but in the team there are people better than me for doing so, and I could't for features) .

It will be wonderful if all the BUG&BAT Team members could look a bit at it, in particular checking the "status" column, because for some of them I had to put an "unknown" label, and assigning priorities. :)

Uhm... nobody has anything to say about it? :(

Anyway :lol: may I consider the leaderheads bug fixed and delete it from the list? :cool:

Sorry Cam... I think EF wanted it done just so he could pass the buck on it.:p:p Bugs are a... touchy subject for coders.;) And yes, the leaderhead fix is in, and it can be deleted.

Sorry Cam... I think EF wanted it done just so he could pass the buck on it.:p:p Bugs are a... touchy subject for coders.;) And yes, the leaderhead fix is in, and it can be deleted.


Uhm... I think that you are right! Damn it! :D :D

But still, I need him (and not only him :p ) to look at it, sometimes ;)

How adequate is the SF bug tracker system? What about Bugzilla? I've used that at quite a few jobs, and I love it. It may be a bit much for our needs...? I'd be willing to setup/configure/maintain Bugzilla if it's something we're interested in using.

I think that is what EF was looking for OneBinary. The one on SF wasn't the best from what I've seen. I've not heard of Bugzilla... I'll take a look, but if you wanna do it, I'm sure Cam wouldn't mind having one less job to handle... that man is all over the place anyway.;)

You know, I've never asked... maybe Cam isn't a man... oh well, it's in there now.:p

Sorry, Cammagno, I just haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I will make time this weekend. Work has been crazy; I get home, eat, and go to sleep. I'm trying at least to respond to forum messages.

SF.net's tracker is okay. The problems I have with it are minor, and we can work around them. I just haven't taken the time to create the categories yet. I had done some of that for the Tasks area, and I was peeved that they weren't shared. How ultra-lame that you can't file a bug against a Task that was completed earlier. :mad:

I should have used Google Code. My bad for not looking at it more thoroughly. I can't even remember the reason I thought we couldn't use it.

</crying-over-spilt-milk>

In any case, the most important thing is that whatever we choose to use, we use and keep up-to-date.

I think that is what EF was looking for OneBinary. The one on SF wasn't the best from what I've seen. I've not heard of Bugzilla... I'll take a look, but if you wanna do it, I'm sure Cam wouldn't mind having one less job to handle... that man is all over the place anyway.;)


Of course I don't mind, I'm happy to leave bugs to somebody else.
Anyway, my list is made for 3/4 of request of new features, so it can be used for that porpouse, if this is not covered by this other systems.


You know, I've never asked... maybe Cam isn't a man... oh well, it's in there now.:p


Of course I'm not a man, I'm a Wookiee!

On an unrelated note, I think that we have to start using that FAQ thread, to put there some basic info, like the installation issues, the compatibilities and so on.

Sorry, Cammagno, I just haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I will make time this weekend. Work has been crazy; I get home, eat, and go to sleep. I'm trying at least to respond to forum messages.

Just joking, mo problem :)


I should have used Google Code. My bad for not looking at it more thoroughly. I can't even remember the reason I thought we couldn't use it.
</crying-over-spilt-milk>


Is it better in general or only for bug tracking? Never tried it. SF doesn't seem to be bad, only the doc area is crazy, can't be used at all.

Is it better in general or only for bug tracking?

:eek: It's . . . it's . . . it's Google!

Of course, I'm biased because I work there, and a friend of mine from college works on the Google Code project itself.

My main gripe with SF.net is that the bug tracker is separate from the feature task tracker. This is lame -- bugs and features should just be different types of tasks in the same system.

@OneBinary - Actually, there's no reason we couldn't use the tracker at GC if it's good without moving the code over. Would you mind checking out GC's tracker for features and bugs and let us know what you think of it, how it compares to Bugzilla. I'd say SF's tracker is subpar compared to the early Bugzilla, which is saying a lot if you ever used the early versions.

:eek: It's . . . it's . . . it's Google!

Of course, I'm biased because I work there, and a friend of mine from college works on the Google Code project itself.

I'm also a strong Google supporter, when Google puts their hands on something, in a shorter period of time this something, no matter what it is, becvomes much better. :cool:

So, an obvious question may be... any possibility of exporting the project to it? Another problem with SF is that the SVN exporter doesn't work at all with vista. Has the google code something with the same use of TortoiseSVN?

Another problem with SF is that the SVN exporter doesn't work at all with vista. Has the google code something with the same use of TortoiseSVN?

SVN isn't specific to SF.net, and I think GC uses it as well (I'll double-check). Is the Vista problem with TortoiseSVN or SF.net?

It may be possible to export all the SVN history. If we had shell access to both systems, it would be a snap because SVN uses the regular file system -- gzip, scp, gunzip, done. I doubt we get shell access, though. Again, I'll investigate this over the weekend (or after since we're doing a release this weekend).

@OneBinary - Actually, there's no reason we couldn't use the tracker at GC if it's good without moving the code over. Would you mind checking out GC's tracker for features and bugs and let us know what you think of it, how it compares to Bugzilla. I'd say SF's tracker is subpar compared to the early Bugzilla, which is saying a lot if you ever used the early versions.

I gotta say, the Bug/FR section of GC is quite nice, and I feel it would work perfectly for this project. A lot of the Bugzilla functionality is built into GC Issues. I would vote GC over a Bugzilla installation in this case.

SVN isn't specific to SF.net, and I think GC uses it as well (I'll double-check). Is the Vista problem with TortoiseSVN or SF.net?


It's with Tortoise, I think. It exports only some folders, never understood according to which criteria.

:eek: It's . . . it's . . . it's Google! Of course, I'm biased because I work there

I'm also a strong Google supporter, when Google puts their hands on something, in a shorter period of time this something, no matter what it is, becvomes much better. :cool: Isn't there an opportunity for Google here ... move EF into the gaming section and really get a CIV version that rocks!!

Isn't there an opportunity for Google here ... move EF into the gaming section and really get a CIV version that rocks!!
The newest addition to Google Pack; CIV BUG Mod :lol:

:eek: It's . . . it's . . . it's Google!

Of course, I'm biased because I work there, and a friend of mine from college works on the Google Code project itself.


Ummm... EF, you work for Google but yet you didn't think to use GC? Oh boy, wait til I tell your bosses.:p

Anyway, the problem is with tortoise not SVN. What it does for me is will continue to try and export files... also it doesn't get rid of those required SVN files so things look messy.

Having looked through it, GC looks like a good option.

:lol: Google Civ would so own! Guido van Rossum (http://www.python.org/%7Eguido/) -- the inventor of Python -- already works here.

In my defense, I started working at Google after we started BUG. As well, I could have sworn that when I looked at it there was some reason we weren't allowed to use it, like there was a requirement (e.g. open source) that we didn't follow (though we are open source, so it was something else). I can't find any reason now, so we could switch.

On the flip side, the permissions are less robust than at SF.net. There are only two permissions: owner or member for the whole project. SF has three permission levels (admin, tech, member) for each section. This may not matter for our needs, though. I'll have to play around with it some more to see.

On the down side, if we want to be able to start tagging releases (I'd like to), we will not be able to transfer our code history. This isn't really a big deal, but it would be nice to have. Of course, we can leave SF.net's project there for posterity.

And then there's the compromise: use GC for tracking and SF for code. And of course, if we set up SF's tracker, it might suit our needs anyway.

@OneBinary - have you checked out SF's tracker? How does it compare to GC? I've just added you as a tech to it so you should be able to see how to customize it.

End-run. I'm looking at SF's tracker now, and it is quite good. We just need to sit down and create all the categories and components. I did that for GC (it was just a text block -- yay for free-text config), so this shouldn't be too hard.

@OneBinary - have you checked out SF's tracker? How does it compare to GC? I've just added you as a tech to it so you should be able to see how to customize it.

Will do. I do like the Wiki part of GC (you will see I added some documents there). I shall dive into SF and have a looksie.

I really like to keep our project at SF jsut because I have everything automated for that now.:p As for Docs, have no problem having that part there, but in SF's defense, their docs have a wiki feature too.

Anyway, yes to the bugs, nay to the code.

EF - You should ask him if there is anyway to load XML with our options screen, and just force a restart of the game.

No worries, I'm leaning toward sticking with SF for now. I like everything in one place, and now that I've set up the tracker categories, bugs should be easy to track there. And it does track features the same way. We can stop using the Tasks section and just do everything in the tracker.

The problem with XML loading is the game's fault -- not Python's. But given that XML drives everything, it's understandable that you have to restart to get new XML changes.

How do you want me to set up Bug reporting anyway? I mean we can set it up to have all bug reports go to the tracker, or to our bug reporting forum, or emails... you guys choose.

I think we should start using the SF tracker. I have set up categories for the Bugs and Feature Requests trackers. I also set up intro text for each saying to search before posting, etc.

I'll do a little more admin work this weekend, but it's ready now. Stop using the Tasks area for bugs/features.

Speaking of which... are users of BUG going to be able to file their own bugs/frs, or are they only going to be entered by BUG staff? I guess the question is, how will the bug/fr get from the end-user to SF?

That's what I was asking actually...

Oh sorry, I didn't get that. Yes, I configured SF so anyone can file a bug/feature. However, I suspect most people will not know to go there and will just post to CFC. It will be our job to grab reports from here and put them into SF occassionally.

That's really what I was looking for with this original topic. That's what I meant by bug triage, as well as going through new reports and assigning to people, getting more info, etc.

I think we should start using the SF tracker. I have set up categories for the Bugs and Feature Requests trackers. I also set up intro text for each saying to search before posting, etc.

I'll do a little more admin work this weekend, but it's ready now. Stop using the Tasks area for bugs/features.

Ok, so somebody (sorry, not me, at least for a week... I already devoted the maximum amount of available hours to it :sad: ) should add to that traker the things in my list... it covers all the previous features requested / bugs discovered, so I think that we must not leave them out :)

Ok, so somebody (sorry, not me, at least for a week... I already devoted the maximum amount of available hours to it :sad: ) should add to that traker the things in my list... it covers all the previous features requested / bugs discovered, so I think that we must not leave them out :)

Ok, I found some time to do it :)

You're a manic Camm....