Is there anyway to prevent your units from becoming barbarians?

I have now had serveral times that my top units turned hostile alfter I captured a city. This especialy hurts when their are your most experienced and best units suddenly go postal. :confused:

Hmm, it shouldn't happen when you capture a city, it should happen when the AC reaches a given value (not sure how much) and the avatar of Wrath comes to the world and converts some units to his cause.
You can prevent this by casting loyalty on them (law 1 spell), it will make units die rather then defect, or you can simply try to fight against the AC rise ...

The AC is currently at 16, does that explain it?

How to lower the AC?

No, the avatar is a powerfull AC effect and will come much later. I never heard of this behavior before ...

Concerning the AC, you can't do much at this point to lower it more, 16 is pretty low (it can reach 100), when Ashen Veil is founded and infernals arrive, you can lower the AC by razing the Veil holy city, or the Infernal capital (Dis), by killing Hyborem or the Veil heroes, and in general by fighting off the growing Evil.
There are also a couple other means to lower the AC : founding the order (i think), using the Elohim ritual, sanctifying city ruins (if that one still works). Also try not to raze large, non ashen veil cities, as this can make the AC rise rather quickly.

I used Burning Blood on the units that became Barbarians, I now read (http://civ4wiki.com/wiki/index.php/FfH_Burning_Blood_%28Spell%29) that there is a chance that units with this spell can get killed after it wears of. Meabee instead of dying, the become barbarians? :confused:

The Enraged promotion also gives a chance of turning barb, which is much more likely to be the reason than the avatar of wrath,unless the AC has reached 90 already. Werewolves start with enraged, as do some mutated units. The crazed promotion (also sometimes given with mutation, and a starting promo of the OO Lunatic UUs) also gives a chance of becomeing enraged each turn.

Yeah, I think that in the BtS version Burning Blood was changed to sometimes give the enraged promotion too.

I believe the loyalty promotion (available through the Law I spell, and to all mercenaries hired by Magnadine) will prevent them from turning barbarian, by killing them when they otherwise would defect.

Seeing them become barbarians is actualy worse then death. I had my uber high level hill giant suddenly turn barbarian which immidiatly started slaughtering my army. Although Burning Blood makes my slow Giants fast and powerfull, able to destroy cities single handedly, if you consider that they might turn postal it isn't worth the risk anymore :(
It only seams to make sence when used for suicide attacks, when the chanse of surviving an attack is slim at best.

Correct, that's really the point of it.

Ah OK, was this changed with the BTS version, cause i never saw a unit become a barbarian before, except for the avatar (up to 2.23)?

Yes it was changed; but before, burning blood would just kill them most of the time (at the end of the turn).

I have been getting something similar. My units are starting to convert into barbarians with an AC of 5! Even my workers are turning on me!

You can prevent this by casting loyalty on them (law 1 spell), it will make units die rather then defect, This doesn't work in the latest .25 version. I know for certain since I name certain units and then find them under the employ of the Avatar. With these units in particular I have made certain they had Loyalty before the Avatar spawned. And then once I find my old units I can get them back with the Command spell even though they still have the Loyalty promotion. So Loyalty is definitely broken. I'm guessing that it will be fixed in Shadow.

I have been getting something similar. My units are starting to convert into barbarians with an AC of 5! Even my workers are turning on me!This might be because you have Chaos mana. If so then there is a small chance that your units will start out with that promotion which causes units to turn barbarian.

If you turn on the option "No Barbarians" units never turn barbarian from Enraged. Turning on "Hallowed Ground" to turn off the AC will also guarrantee that they won't turn barbarian from the Avatar of Wrath event (as there will be no AC events).

I am hoping that when you turn on the "No Barbarians" option the units are killed when they would have turned Barbarian? Otherwise Burning Blood/Enraged become quite overpowered :(

no more than the great library becomes overpowered on OCC, or phi on OCC, or Org on huge maps.
or how underpowered Sheaim becomes on Hallowed Ground, or barb trait leaders with No Barbarians.

and so on.

the options are there to play to peoples preferences, but the same balance of standard options needn't be kept (not that theres any real need for balance in standard settings)

Valid points. Though I would typically argue that the wonders aren't overpowered in a One City Challenge, since you are giving up the ability to build a LOT of other things to get that wonder. But I haven't ever attempted one of those, so can't say much I suppose :)

does loyalty opposes to the enraged promo going barb ??

that it does oppose the avatar of wrath is ok, but the rage...

How do you build the Great Library in One-City Challenge? It requires three libraries.

in OCC, anything that requires multiples of a building normally only requires 1 of them, since as you say, it would be impossible otherwise. in vanilla civ you can also build unlimited national wonders (normally you'd be restricted to 2 per city)

In BtS, there is a new limit of 5 national wonders per city in the One City Challenge.

Unfortunately in FfH OCC there is a limit of five National Wonders. Fortunately the Altars only count as one. So with the five towers, and now that the Bazaar is a NatWon, I think there are 11 of them available.

Edit: Oops I missed the second page and MCs response.

Well, whenever you build an altar the previous one is removed, so it really is just five in the city at a time. (I'm also not sure if the mechanism of a great prophet founding an altar counts the number of National wonders already in the city, so If you build 5 of them before you get your first altar you can probbely have 6)

I wasn't sure whether that new limit carried over to FfH, but, if it does, it should really be removed.

Yep the limit of 5 is definitely in the BTS version of FfH. I wouldn't mind seeing that limit removed. At least a Tower of Mastery victory is still possible if no other NatWon's are built. But it can be a tough choice between the Altar, Bazaar, the 2 Epics, the 5 Towers, and a possible Shrine of the Champion. (just ten NatWon's ~ I had mistakenly included the Crown in my other post) I think the normal handicaps associated with an OCC are enough. The lack of resources and mana, along with a reduced economy and production base is challenge enough.

The Shrine of the Champion doesn't seem to be working or I don't understand its use. But I've only tried for it in this latest batch of OCC's. In two games I'd left a slot open for that wonder. I trained an early Hero for a religion which I knew I would be switching out of. The first time I let the unit vanish from within the city after I'd switched religions. The second time I fireballed the Hero nearly to death and then left him for the Orcs to finish off. Neither method granted the Shrine. After the second attempt I reloaded the game and then disbanded the unit. That didn't work either. I don't know if the mechanic is broken or if its just a problem with OCC?

Shrine is restricted to your Civ's hero.

Shrine only works on CIV hero, not Religion hero :(

While we are on OCC, what happens if you build the Mercurian Gate? Since it hands your city to Basium, does that mean you get wiped out if you do not switch?

You won't be able to build it as it is not allowed in your capital

How do you build the Tower of Mastery in One-city challenge?

By trading for a ton of mana I suppose. Or getting REALLY lucky on your start spot (or really unlucky if almost all your city tiles are mana...)

changing the amount of nat wonders in an OCC game is quite easy, it's just 1 number in one of the .ini's. Not sure which one though, but i'm pretty sure i've found it in the BTS forums before (as i have changed the number to unlimited).

edit: found it:

<Define>
<DefineName>MAX_NATIONAL_WONDERS_PER_CITY_FOR_OCC</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>-1</iDefineIntVal>

in global defines.xml (normal BTS folder, didn't find it in the FFH file.)

Shrine is restricted to your Civ's hero.That makes sense. Thank you.


How do you build the Tower of Mastery in One-city challenge?In one game I was able to found all of the religions and then build all but one of the shrines. The shrines and the palace all grant mana. And I had two sources once I hit legendary culture. And there is at least one wonder which grants mana but doesnt require it as a pre-req. I havent yet gone for the Tower victory in any games, but I think its possible in an OCC. And the AI seems to currently not value its mana very high. I can often request some for free and they will give it to me.


changing the amount of nat wonders in an OCC game is quite easy, it's just 1 number in one of the .ini's.
<Define>
<DefineName>MAX_NATIONAL_WONDERS_PER_CITY_FOR_OCC</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>-1</iDefineIntVal>

in global defines.xml (normal BTS folder, didn't find it in the FFH file.)Cool, thank you!

does loyalty opposes to the enraged promo going barb ??



With Loyalty, when they would otherwise turn Barb, they die instead.

Jonathan

in global defines.xml (normal BTS folder, didn't find it in the FFH file.)

I don't think the team remebered to add this one to the FfH file, since they basically reused the vanilla FfH one and this value didn't exist then. Whenever such a value isn't found in the mod folder the game looks in the defauly location (first BtS, then Warlords (if you have it, otherwise all this stuff would have been included in the BtS folder), then vanilla)

If you add this define to FfH's file it works just as well. I did it that way since it is generally recomended to leave the normal BtS files unchanged (although I would prefer to get rid of the national wonder limits in the main game and this change doesn't seem like it could hurt much). I suppose it could cause some errors if you forgot to change the value back in the BtS file and were trying to play a multiplayer game against someone who hadn't made the same change. Of course, I never play multiplayer games anyway (except the occasional hotseat game against myself or very rarely against my sister)

Note that instead of modifying GlobalDefines.xml, you can add the entry to GlobalDefinesAlt.xml in the mod folder (under Assets\XML). GlobalDefinesAlt.xml is essentially a group of overrides to GlobalDefines.xml which can also have additional information.

Well, in my third game I decided to placate my inner Munchkin and do some Grigori Archmage cheese. Unfortunately the Avatar of Wrath came in and I lost 6 of my heros to the enraged promotion. I was wondering if Dispel Magic would get rid of it? The text for that spell is a bit vague to this noobie, what exactly constitutes a charm?

Darrell

I do not think there is any way to remove Enraged currently, except POSSIBLY the Pool of Tears. It is supposed to wear off automatically (chance per turn), but hasn't since moving to Shadow.

Well, in my third game I decided to placate my inner Munchkin and do some Grigori Archmage cheese. Unfortunately the Avatar of Wrath came in and I lost 6 of my heros to the enraged promotion. I was wondering if Dispel Magic would get rid of it? The text for that spell is a bit vague to this noobie, what exactly constitutes a charm?

Darrell

Funny. I thought heroes were supposed to be immune to the Avatar's conversion. Is that only for World Units?

Bummer about Dispel Magic, I guess I could always flip off the AC although it adds a lot of fun to the game.

Funny. I thought heroes were supposed to be immune to the Avatar's conversion. Is that only for World Units?

Well, again I'm not so experienced with the mod yet, but none of the units actually converted when the Avatar entered the game (none meaning none at all, not just my Heroes). Some of the Heroes did get the Enraged promotion though, unless I missed something.

Darrell

Funny. I thought heroes were supposed to be immune to the Avatar's conversion. Is that only for World Units?
They are immune only to get enraged through mutation.