Ok, I'm driving myself nuts. GOTTA HAVE 'EM ALL, GOTTA HAVE 'EM ALL.

/Pokemon theme

Anyway, I have a very set strategy to try and get as many wonders as possible, and I can't help but get sad when someone else gets one before me. It's to the point now where my capital in early game is basically solely a wonder producer. I usually build warrior-worker-settler-wonders. I often wonder (haha) if my capital could be better used, but it isn't as if there are many early buildings to concentrate on in the early game.

Is this normal, or am I whacked out? Is there a good way to break the spell?

its kinda normal to be wacked out like that.

the cure I used to break the spell involved lots of alcohol

Is there a good way to break the spell?


Yes, play a game without building a single wonder. You can do it. Just take other cities that have the wonders. Use the hammers to build a military to take the wonders from the AI. I just got the great wall from India:hammer: .

Yes, play a game without building a single wonder. You can do it. Just take other cities that have the wonders. Use the hammers to build a military to take the wonders from the AI. I just got the great wall from India:hammer: .

Cold turkey? I think the alcohol suggestion sounds more tempting :lol:

Don't play an Industrious leader and only build wonders that you have double production for (stone/marble).

My cure for my Wonder lust is simple.

1. Don't play a Industrious leader (H.C. is my fav:king: ).

2. Play a harder level.

Probably not as fun, but it does encourage a different style of play. :goodjob:

Well, some wonders are too good to dismiss...pentagon for military is huge...but if you try is possible.

Don't play an Industrious leader and only build wonders that you have double production for (stone/marble).

But I don't play as an industrious leader, and I don't usually have stone/marble ;)

Cold turkey? I think the alcohol suggestion sounds more tempting :lol:

Yes ... cold turkey (just like how I quit smoking). Remember, you will have wonders ... you are just taking them from the AI (like quiting smoking, but bumming cigarettes from other people:mischief: ).

T~

I do the same sometimes :) If you play as a philosophical leader and share the wonders between 3 cities, you can win a cultural victory and have fun with the great persons.

I do the same sometimes :) If you play as a philosophical leader and share the wonders between 3 cities, you can win a cultural victory and have fun with the great persons.

That's what I usually do when building wonders, but it can often lead to my military downfall because I end up doing it in my first three cities and neglect my military :(

I usually chop Stonehenge and the Great Wall after my first Settler, but my problem arises once my settler is built from my second city. By that time it becomes a choice between the Pyramids, the Temple of Artemis, or going for the Great Lighthouse. Not to mention the Oracle. I usually shoot for starting the Temple in my second city at first availability, but there is a big jump in hammer requirements from stonehenge/great wall to the next tier. This usually kills production of anything else for quite some time in my second city, even with chopping.

I TRY to make my third city my production city to start churning out units, but sometimes temptation sets in hard...

turn up the difficulty, you def wont get all the wonders. you will end up just beelining anything you particularly want.

Maybe just build National Wonders. Pick ONE wonder per era to build.

It's hard at first to kick the wonder jones, but you'll be a better player for it.;)

There is a thread on here somewhere about a wonder economy and win strategy if you need an excuse to keep building. I am the same and tend to build a lot but far from all, if you are goinf for a SE and have a seperate city for loadsa farms and scientist speciialists then some regulare other great people is a fair strategy, but if your military suffers as you say then its gone too far.

to continue the smoking analogy personal choice is a human right and if yiu like it then perhaps cut down rather than quitting. Also realise that if harder levels are a goal then beyond about prince you can wave the abillity to get many wonders goodbye, oh yea you will also lose badly trying....

Most wonders aren't really that usefull nor may give you a significal avantage over the others civs. You have to consider what you could have built instead with all these hammers.

Most wonders aren't really that usefull nor may give you a significal avantage over the others civs. You have to consider what you could have built instead with all these hammers.

But they look pretty :(

You're right though, some probably aren't that wonderful. Although, if someone gets to it first, I usually use the money gained from an incomplete wonder to mass upgrade my troops.

Some games, I won't build a single wonder. But if I start with a leader and a position that I think wonders would benefit from, then I will map out exactly which wonders I plan to go for immediately. A popular one is all the wonders that produce Great Scientist Points, Science specialists, or extra science percentages/techs.

However, if you intend on trying to build as many as possible, concentrate primarily on Great Engineers, as they will help you build your wonders much more quickly. Play an industrious leader, regen till you end up near stone/copper/marble, etc... and then concentrate on Great Engineer-producing wonders so that you can then spam out more wonders with them.

To play an "All Wonder" type game with a leader that doesn't have industrious and doesn't have the speed-doubling resources necessary is really just setting yourself up to have another civ come in and take it all away, or a tanked economy, because you won't have any time to build up a military or infrastructure.

Some games, I won't build a single wonder. But if I start with a leader and a position that I think wonders would benefit from, then I will map out exactly which wonders I plan to go for immediately. A popular one is all the wonders that produce Great Scientist Points, Science specialists, or extra science percentages/techs.

However, if you intend on trying to build as many as possible, concentrate primarily on Great Engineers, as they will help you build your wonders much more quickly. Play an industrious leader, regen till you end up near stone/copper/marble, etc... and then concentrate on Great Engineer-producing wonders so that you can then spam out more wonders with them.

To play an "All Wonder" type game with a leader that doesn't have industrious and doesn't have the speed-doubling resources necessary is really just setting yourself up to have another civ come in and take it all away, or a tanked economy, because you won't have any time to build up a military or infrastructure.

I seem to manage ok some times, but I play on Noble. I suppose I should bump the difficulty up...

As I have mentioned in another thread, CivIV initially largely helped me "overcome" wonder addiction due to the sheer number of them. It was just impossible to build them all. I still always play Industrious leaders, so you might say that I was not fully recovered; but still with that start under my belt, I tried helping another member in overcoming wonder addiction a few weeks ago, but it seems that I myself have relapsed.

In my last few games, I can't help but try to get all the early wonders. Strangely, I think it was the Great Wall that initiated the relapse. It was another early and relatively cheap wonder, and the great spy helped me steal a lot of early techs for almost nothing. Then I had read a lot about specialist economies, so I had to have the Pyramids... then I wanted a Theology slingshot for a religion so I needed the Oracle... then I learned how important trade routes are, so I needed the Temple of Artemis... then....

I am trying to be humorous about it, but at times it genuinely does make the game less enjoyable with the effort to get so many wonders. It does help when people, such as on this thread, point out that the bonuses are not really that great. And when someone else said I will have wonders, you'll just liberate them from other civs.

First, turn up the level. You'll have a hard time focusing on wonder building and you'll be forced to think about other things. Next, think of all the things that you could be doing other than building wonders. Also, think about your larger strategy and how many of the wonders available to you probably will not further your strategy in your particular circumstances. In other words, whether a wonder will be a substantial boon will always depend on the specific circumstances of your particular game. Also, if you are building mostly all of your wonders in one particular city (your capital), then you are probably not doing as good of a job of specializing your cities as you could be. There's more to say on this topic, but nothing you can't get elsewhere by searching for advice.

God, you can't beat building a good wonder. Only two to go before I've had them all at one stage :)

I have the same addiction. Not a total obsession, as it doesn't bother me if somebody else builds the Colossus or Chichen Itza, and I don't normally bother with Hollywood because I ignore Mass Media, having naturally built the Eiffel Tower. Mostly my Wonders get concentrated in my capital and, later, in my best production city which will have forge, factory, levees and the 3G Dam. Hammers by the hundreds !

I used to spam wonders in my capitol. I prioritized them based on effects, but gave little regard to :gp: points since I ran CE the entire game. Up until I went through my industrial revolution (which often occurred at the same time as the bulk of my suburbs were maturing (becoming towns and yielding the extra :hammers: due to Universal Suffrage), my capitol was one of only 2 cities with good production. My military city was the other, but it was normally sequestered by unit production. It was standard practice for me to try to hog as many wonders in my capitol as possible. Although, once my town surrounded cities had levees, factories and hydro plants I would build as many cultural heavy weight wonders as possible along borders with civs with strong culture.
Once I discovered the power of the SE (about a month ago), I began putting grouping wonders according to the :gp: it helped generate. In doing so, I had to spread out the wonders according my cities' specialties. The natural consequence is fewer wonders. A city the employs half its population as specialists which produce no :hammers: will build a lot slower than on which has most of its people working the land.
I actually like it better this way. Instead of sacrificing my military strength and economy on buildings that pollute my collective :gp: pool and contribute little to my victory, I pick the ones that will contribute to the :gp: that I want and try to plan my teching to facilitate this. That being said, unique effects are still a key consideration. Wonder effects that support the victory strategy are obviously boss.

Forget about it. If you have that craving to build wonders, indulge in it! Forget those barbarians who tell you to build troops and conquer them instead, they're the kind of people we wanna keep away from our shiny new wonders! Just don't go for Chichen Itza...

Is this normal, or am I whacked out? Is there a good way to break the spell?

Yes, it is normal. The best way to break this habit is to set out for a conquest victory from the start. Avoid wonders and focus on rushing those axe and swords.

I'll usually found Hinduism, then that's it. I will take the rest. In my current game I built hardly any wonders until about 1800 BC. I did go for and found the oracle though via chopping. Yet, I currently have just about every wonder on the game. I also have all 6 religions under my control. Now that I am so far advanced nobody else can even hope to beat to a wonder when I do build one. It's not necessarily breaking the habit of wonders, but breaking the habit of putting everything into them at the start when it's most important to have an army. I can build alot of axes while you are trying to finish the pyramids, and I bet I take the pyramids from you right after. Basically it goes like this, if you can take it from somebody else then take it don't build it. :goodjob:

I like to build wonders in my capital, it's a WONDERful city!

However, I don't try to build them all. That's just stupid and crazy. I don't build the religion wonder :yuck:

I don't build the Chichen Itza or the Angkor Wat

I also don't build Aluminium Co, Standard Ethanol, Civilized Jewellers or Creative Constructions.

There are also several others I won't build unless it's an afterthought.

You see, you don't have to build all the wonders, just the good ones :D

For me, I decide on what victory I'm trying for and then decide which wonders will help me get it. That usually cuts out a lot of temptation. I'm not going to try for the Sistine Chapel if I'm not going for the culture victory.

Look at wonders in terms of what you need for a long term goal, rather than what you want because it's cool. And don't build wonders unless you are Industrious.

I will mention that I recently played a game as the Incans and Stone was right next to my capital. A little later in the game, I had Infantry when everybody else had longbows . . .

My favourite ancient era wonder is "stack of axeman".

I build wonders no matter what traits I am. Gandhi loves to build wonders! FDR loves to build wonders!

Ummm those are the only two civs I play as... go figure

Anyway, I just don't build certain wonders out of :yuck:

I don't build the Sheygon Pa because I'm not interested in early FR and I build all wonders of the Renaissance onwards because well I have the cities and means of production. I only build the Sistine if no one has it and I have nothing else to build in the form of wonders and I have the production. I do not specialise it.
I also no longer build Stonehenge. Useless compared to the Great Wall and the Pyramids. Temple of Artemis... nope not that either. Some of early wonders I just don't build

I always miss out on Versailles because I want to save it for a part of my empire that needs it, but some worthless AI build it and makes me :mad:

Only ancient wonders I regularly build are Pyramids and Oracle. I'm a religion addict so I have never built Stonehenge/Monuments except for the UB. Could someone explain what's so great about the Great Wall?

Only ancient wonders I regularly build are Pyramids and Oracle. I'm a religion addict so I have never built Stonehenge/Monuments except for the UB. Could someone explain what's so great about the Great Wall?

Stonehenge gets an early great prophet which is nice. I like to shoot for Judaism sometimes, and it is nice to have a prophet there waiting.

As far as the Great Wall, if you play a few games with a massive continent on Big & Small and/or large huge worlds with Raging Barbarians, the barbarians become much more than a nuisance. They can be assaulting you in force before you have time to get Axemen up and running especially if you are near the middle of the continent.

The Great Wall then allows you to focus on building and watch those barbs march towards around your borders to a neighbor. That's kind of satisfying as well. Of course, in another game, I missed the Great Wall by 3 turns and I very soon afterward had a stack of 6 or 7 barbs plus some others nearby converging within my capital city radius. I should have played it out, but I started another game.

Secondly, an early Great Spy or two allows you to steal quite a bit of technology. One game (on Monarch), I stole roughly 10 ancient and classical technologies from a neighbor, so I never had to trade for them at all. The diplomatic penalties ensured an enemy for life, but I had plans to go to war with him anyhow.

Go to Monarch level, and at first you won't get them all there. Eventually you should be able to with good play and an Industrious Civ. I like Roosevelt to keep city costs down to boot to help my economy. Then go to Emperor where you can forget about it and watch yourself get creamed.

Go to Monarch level, and at first you won't get them all there. Eventually you should be able to with good play and an Industrious Civ. I like Roosevelt to keep city costs down to boot to help my economy. Then go to Emperor where you can forget about it and watch yourself get creamed.

Go to Monarch level, and at first you won't get them all there. Eventually you should be able to with good play and an Industrious Civ. I like Roosevelt to keep city costs down to boot to help my economy. Then go to Emperor where you can forget about it and watch yourself get creamed.

sorry about the multiple replies, computer & website freaked out

I often utilise the tatic of founding an early religion, then building the stonehenge and the oracle to get a great prophets....which then equates to 1 gold per city with my religion!:D Plus not to mention a free tech and free culuture!

My favourite ancient era wonder is "stack of axeman".

This is the way I think of it too. Sure, it doesn't let you switch to Representation in the ancient era, but it does give you control of an enemy capital.

Only ancient wonders I regularly build are Pyramids and Oracle. I'm a religion addict so I have never built Stonehenge/Monuments except for the UB. Could someone explain what's so great about the Great Wall?

It lets you play hide and seek with barbarians. Normally when you attack a stack of two archers with one axeman, you will kill the first archer and lose to the second. But if attack from within your cultural borders, the second archer won't be able to retaliate, letting you heal your axe. This is more of an issue with raging barbarians than normal games.

But the real reason to build it is for the great spies.

I build the Great Wall because I'm sick of those mother----ing barbarians pillaging my mother----ing improvements!

I liked how in SMAC the Mind Worms would just ignore improvements and die at your gates. But the Spore Launchers were a pain as they'd destroy improvements

So the Great Wall is vital if I want to keep a Barbarian stack out from destroying my improvements. Even if I'm surrounded by others with no barb access, I don't want to be a victim of Barbarians ever if they decide to ignore the AI and go after me.

I don't use the GW for the GG bonus as I'm usually fighting in their territory, not the other way around. I really need to go past Chieftain

Could someone explain what's so great about the Great Wall?

u obviously either play archipelago maps, play on settler, play with "no barbarians" ticked, or live in a shell. it lets you say goodbye to losing your shiny new city or improvement just because your troops were busy.

u obviously either play archipelago maps, play on settler, play with "no barbarians" ticked, or live in a shell. it lets you say goodbye to losing your shiny new city or improvement just because your troops were busy.

I usually play on Continents or Pangaea, normal or Raging Barbs, but I'm not denying the shell :mischief:.

I try not to pollute my main city with anything but GE points with one GP wonder (usually Oracle) and a shrine, so GW would go in a second city, already putting it a disadvantage.

I usually play on Continents or Pangaea, normal or Raging Barbs, but I'm not denying the shell :mischief:.

I try not to pollute my main city with anything but GE points with one GP wonder (usually Oracle) and a shrine, so GW would go in a second city, already putting it a disadvantage.

I have also tried to limit my Great Spies and focus my great person points a little more as you mention in my capital city. I also tried to build the Great Wall in my second city on Monarch; and at least for that game, it caused me to miss it. Since it comes relatively early and is pretty cheap to build, it appears that it easy to miss it if one tries to use finesse like this.

Don't feel alone... I have the "Wonder Jones" also and am really bummed when I lose some of my "key" wonders -- my "keys" being the Pyramids (need to get Representation early to advance through technologies faster!!), the Great Wall (keep those freakin' barbarians off my back!!), Stonehenge (great early CULTURE!! And if you're N/A absolutely indispensable), the Mausoleum of What's His Name (12 turns rather than 8 for Golden Ages -- love it!!), the Parthenon (need them great people!!)..

Heck, I could keep going on and on -- UP WITH WONDERS!! And so far as NOT being useful, I'm probably in the minority in thinking that they give you a significant edge (Spiral Minaret, University of Sankore, Great Library... Got to love 'em!!).

No such thing as wrongbadfun - if you're enjoying it then carry right on!

If you'd like to try it without them, then do what some others said: play a game at the usual difficulty and build no world wonders. Use specialists to generate any great people you might want.

IMO it's really good training for tougher difficulties... if that interests you?

It's also good for picking out which wonders are really cool and which are just attractive window dressing?


My favourite ancient era wonder is "stack of axeman".

Mine too.

Although the equivalent classical wonders are pretty cool too:
'Legion of Swordsmen'
'Gazillions of Catapults and Elephants'


I used to be a terrible wonder hog, but this method helped me no end!

Some games I just go in with a mindset: OK, I want to make a lotta great people and wonders in this game.

If I do that, then I know that some of my key goals are: Pyramids (Rep), Parthenon (+50% GPP), Great Library (2 sci), Mausoleum of Mausollos (longer GA with all those GPs), and Taj Mahal (I got MoM, so why not).

Also, if I start near a lot of water, I may build Colossus and GLhouse. Since Col goes obsolete at Ast., I'll probably put that off a while, so it's relatively safe to build other wonders going obsolete then, like Stonehenge.

Likewise if my religion gets a strong hold, I'll build the AP. Doing so will tempt me to also build SM and UoS and maybe SC for an overkill effect.

Although the equivalent classical wonders are pretty cool too:
'Legion of Swordsmen'
'Gazillions of Catapults and Elephants'


I used to be a terrible wonder hog, but this method helped me no end!

Don't forget some of the fantastic later wonders: the "Multitude of Maces", the "Ceaseless Cavalry", the "Gazillion Grenadiers", "Infinite Infantry", "Throng of Tanks", "Cacophony of Cannons", "Massive Assemblies of Modern Armour" and the "Kneverending, Knumberless Knights".

There's great wonders to be built right throughout the ages!

Don't forget the greatest wonder of all:

Ingenious ICBM Ignition

You use that one on the enemy and they'll be destroyed. The perfect wonder for a perfect game. However, it does cause Global Warming...

Those are all fun too!

Though with all that medieval and onwards craziness, think we forgot:

Quecha-Geddon?

:)

I had thought I was over my wonder addiction, but then my current game lended itself for the ultimate wonder ho game. I got a start while playing Inca's leader with 4 sea resources, corn, 2 grassland squares, copper, and the rest hills. Further, only Nappy within range of war and 6 good production city sites and 6 good cottage areas. Both marble and Stone within my first two cities. Prince, Hemisphere, Huge, 18 AI's. With 3 good production towns pumping out units, I decided, what the heck, I'll build them all. Missed on two middle age wonders and the Kremlin, but check for the rest. I'm at 1790, I'm running infantry and cannons into longbows with tanks about 6 turns away. My concern is that I'll trigger a cultural victory before domination.

Kind of a shame Firaxis didn't elect to provide a wonder that gave free units as in Civ 3... I kind of liked getting (weak) cavalry units ever so often. Another wonder I REALLY miss is one that provides military upgrades at half price -- may be this was TOO great a wonder? Of course, I could be confusing Firaxis with "Double Your Pleasure", but I'm pretty sure these two were "vanilla" wonders.

Question, if you take a city with a wonder in it, do you get the bonus for being the new owner?

It sure seems to. I took a city with Stonehenge and, suddenly, all my cities had monuments.

Yes, unless it's something like the Oracle, in which case all you get are GPPs (for Great Prophets too, yuck)

Kind of a shame Firaxis didn't elect to provide a wonder that gave free units as in Civ 3... I kind of liked getting (weak) cavalry units ever so often. Another wonder I REALLY miss is one that provides military upgrades at half price -- may be this was TOO great a wonder? Of course, I could be confusing Firaxis with "Double Your Pleasure", but I'm pretty sure these two were "vanilla" wonders.

Yeah Leo's workshop halved the upgrade cost. Good times, good times.

I will mention that I recently played a game as the Incans and Stone was right next to my capital. A little later in the game, I had Infantry when everybody else had longbows . . .

i don't often play industrious leaders. but i think half of my HC games there's been stone visible from my starting location :crazyeye:. it's crazy.

Kind of a shame Firaxis didn't elect to provide a wonder that gave free units as in Civ 3... I kind of liked getting (weak) cavalry units ever so often. Another wonder I REALLY miss is one that provides military upgrades at half price -- may be this was TOO great a wonder? Of course, I could be confusing Firaxis with "Double Your Pleasure", but I'm pretty sure these two were "vanilla" wonders.

The problem was simply that it turned Wonder-building into another military aid. Wonder-building in Civ IV is an indirect military aid; you've got to be able to do it the old-fashioned way right up until the Pentagon. :)