I've been working on the glance screen and would like some feedback ... which is better ...

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3337/Japan-0017.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7536/newglancepv0.jpg

I prefer the second.

Second one by a long shot. It looks much clearer without the background poking through. :goodjob:

A couple of points:


The second screen looks better that the first however I think it would be helpful if the glance screen had grid lines.
How well does the glance screen scale with lots of civs? In the standard game you can have up to 17 civs IIRC and some people mod the game to have even more. How readable is the screen in those cases?

I noticed that the comparison is not fair. The first screenshot has 2 extra civilisations making it look more cluttered.

I think the smilies are completely unneeded. The colour coding tells you enough and colours are registered very quickly by the brain. While smilies might look funny and nice, with lots of civilisations it just clutters the screen. Since the numbers are now between parenthesis, they are slightly harder to read. Are they smaller now then before?

Oh, and I agree with Sam_Yeager that I would like to see screenshots of the screen with many civilisations (say 11 or so, the default number for a huge map). In the case of 6 civilisations, every layout of the screen will be readable. The more interesting things happen when you add lots of civilisations. Can you easily see which number corresponds to which civilisation when there are no grid lines and many civilisations?

A final test should be how the screen looks like with 30 civilisations. Some players like to play super huge maps with lots and lots of civilisations. The screen probably needs a scrollbar in that case.

they are actually screen shots from the same game but the top one was from later in the game after I have met more people. I still like the bottom one. Re the smilies - they can be turned off if you don't like them (option in BUG).

You are right that lots of civs will prove an issue, scroll bars would help but I would need to re-write some code as the whole thing is one panel. I would have to change it to 3 panels (top, left, main with scroll bars).

I'm not sure if two scrollbars will really help. Scrolling only one direction sounds good, but I think scrolling both horizontally and vertically will be weird.

But don't take this too strongly, it's 0630 Sunday morning and I really am going to bed now... Maybe I can think better after sleep :)

I like the second one best. Much more visually helpful. The first one is a major pain in the butt on the eyes.

they are actually screen shots from the same game but the top one was from later in the game after I have met more people. I still like the bottom one. Re the smilies - they can be turned off if you don't like them (option in BUG).

You are right that lots of civs will prove an issue, scroll bars would help but I would need to re-write some code as the whole thing is one panel. I would have to change it to 3 panels (top, left, main with scroll bars).

Sorry about the somewhat harsh tone in my previous post. After rereading my post I noticed that I worded things a bit too harsh. The post was created a bit late.

It's good that BUG has so many options so that you can choose your favourite.

About the one with the horizontal bars. I think that one would look less cluttered if the background wouldn't be a world picture. It distracts the eyes from the main information and lessens the ease to differentiate between the various bars.

I would like to see one with bars, without a world picture and without smilies. Just to see whether it also would look cluttered.

I'm not sure if two scrollbars will really help. Scrolling only one direction sounds good, but I think scrolling both horizontally and vertically will be weird.

But don't take this too strongly, it's 0630 Sunday morning and I really am going to bed now... Maybe I can think better after sleep :)

I agree that scrollbars are an ugly way to fix the limitations of a screen. But imagine with 30 civisations, 841 numbers (30*29 - 29) and 29 horizontal lines (-) (relation of a civ with itself) need to be displayed on the screen. If you add smilies and numbers and parenthesis, then there are 4 * 841 = 3364 symbols + 29 horizontal lines on one single screen (compare with the second uncluttered screenshot which only contains 144 symbols + 6 horizontal lines). I don't know how big your monitor is, but on my 19 inch screen that would be too much. I don't play on these superhuge maps with that many civilisations, but I think the GLANCE screen should be available and functional in those situations.

Here is a pic of the new GLANCE screen using the same game as the one above with the rows ...

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9562/glancesimilarhl3.jpg

Obviously, I have something wrong with my vertical spacing code. I think I am spreading the Civs over the whole height of the screen and not of the panel.

Here is a shot with smilies on from a brand new game with 11 Civs (default for large map size), I've also fixed the vertical spacing issue.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7940/glancenosmilieskx5.jpg

... and the same shot with smilies ...

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3381/glancesmiliesmy6.jpg

I think we could squeeze in 1, maybe 2, more Civs before we started to get overlap. This would mean moving to scroll bars which I will look at. Re rows, that could be done similar to the resource trading page but would also require scroll bars and might lose the ability to sort based on the leaders (click on the leader head and the screen will be sorted best friend to worst enemy, click again and get the reverse sort). Moving to rows will involve a fairly extensive re-write of the existing code because all of the python positional items would be different.

I had a quick play in a test game after reactivating the glance screen. On a huge map you can have up to 17 AI in an unmodified game and the original glance screen seems to be able to cope with that with just a vertical scrollbar.

So I think you should be aiming for up to 17 AI with your modified glance screen. Either just document that your screen is only designed for 17 AI or else look to see if you can scale it up further. I think the former option sounds the better choice.

Could the version without the smilies also get rid of the parenthesis? They are not having any purpose in that version. In that version, the numbers could also be slightly larger since no space is required for the smilies.

By the way, I don't know how difficult my requests are. I just think that if you can add and remove smilies in the options, then the parenthesis should also be able to be removed. :confused:

By the way, I noticed that the annoyed smiley and number are differently coloured. I'll probably prefer the version without smilies, but I guess that the ones that like the smilies version prefer them in the same colour as the numbers. There are also slight colour differences with the other attitudes, but the difference is smaller.

I agree. Lose the smilies. The color speaks for itself, I think. :)

Why did I start this flippin' thread. It eat my weekend! And as for you no good bludging users ... nag, nag, nag, that is all I ever hear. Now PAY ATTENTION ... this is your very very last chance. I will not be doing any more to this stupid GLANCE screen, except for adopting one of the following ...

31
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2563/GLANCE-0031.jpg

32
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3215/GLANCE-0032.jpg

33
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4387/GLANCE-0033.jpg

34
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8004/GLANCE-0034.jpg

35
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8828/GLANCE-0035.jpg

Removing the brackets is easy - no prob there.
Matching the coloured text to the smilie - ok, fine!

One final question - with less than 17 leaders, do you want the horizontal spacing to stay as shown above (ie if we only have 10 leaders then the last 7 columns would be blank), or do you prefer the leaders to be spread over the page?
Now - over to you, which do you like?

I hate to say this, but they look all the same to me with those brackets and smilies :(. Thanks for your hard work, dude.

I hate to say this, but they look all the same to me with those brackets and smilies :(. Thanks for your hard work, dude.geez - get over the smilies. The above screenshots are all different! Look at the background! One has leader head icons size 46, the others use size 32. One has no rows, the others have different types of rows.

Difficult customer is back.

I prefer no 34. Its lines are just enough to differentiate between the rows easily, but not that visible that they clutter the screen. I also like the distance between the horizontal bars. If they are placed closer together than the screen becomes a bit more cluttered again. I'm not sure if that would still be the case with the 'only numbers' option, but it probably is. So for me, no 34 is the perfect solution.
35 is pretty good too. Its colour scheme is slightly lighter and that makes it just a bit better to read. But the lines are getting pretty close together so I prefer 34.

Thanks for allowing the brackets to be removed and matching the colours.

If less civilisations were to be placed in this screen, then I would prefer them spread over the page. In that way, with less civilisations the screen will look even less cluttered.

Getting the perfect balance with such a screen is hard. On the one hand, you want to display all of the information, on the other hand, you want it to be readable and not cluttered. Thanks for searching for that perfect balance. :goodjob:

Okay, bud, you asked for feedback. I gave it. The changes were simply too subtle for me to notice. Sorry my feedback wasn't to your liking, dude. Good luck with future editions of this.

*unsubscribes from topic*

Choices, choices.. :)

That looked like 16 civs on one screen. I shouldn't have trouble with wide Glance screen, as I have 24"W monitor, 1920x1200 resolution. Smaller monitor may cause trouble if one's playing with some ultra-huge maps and extremely many civs. Also, I doubt I get even 16 civs that often, as I play mainly large map with default number of civs. Add a few colonies and 16 is possible, but not common.

Of the screenies:

#31 is out - need divider lines

#32 is nice

#33 looks a bit cramped, but can do

#34 is darker than the rest? You're changing many parameters at once :) If color scheme was same as in #35, this probably would be my favourite.

#35 I like best out of them. Divider lines are OK, it doesn't look too cramped either.

@CivAgamemnon - sorry, over reacted.

@Roland Johansen and Elandal - I only changed 1 item for the last 3. There are different 'panel' options. 34 is 'OUT' and 35 is 'IN' (or the other way around). I have no idea what the difference is. Looking at it, it appears that the fading is opposite in 34 (dark with lighter parts top left and bottom right) and 35 (light with darker parts top left and bottom right).

I like either 34 or 35.

I like 35 because as you have shown, you can fit more civs on a single screen. Also FWIW I like the smilies and values in brackets.

Ok, final version lodged in the SVN. Examples below ...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8498/Glance-0036.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7857/Glance-0037.jpg

Ok, final version lodged in the SVN. Examples below ...



It looks very good, both versions. Thanks for your work.

Uhm,...:blush:

In my opinion, the dark red numbers are a bit hard to read. It could be my eyes as the distinction between various colours is not the same for everyone.

the dark red is not coming thru nicely in the screenshots. It is readable in the game.

Ok, final version lodged in the SVN. Examples below ...


It is ok now :goodjob:
The only thing that could be better is the vertical alignment, with few civs it's evident that the smiles and numbers are not centered vertically, but near the top of the row. But if you have not centered them, I fear that it's because it can't be done, correct?

I've done what I can for horizontal alignment. There are a few tricks left re vertical alignment ... I just have to figure out the height of the text and work from there. Once more into the breach ...

the dark red is not coming thru nicely in the screenshots. It is readable in the game.

Ok, thanks. :goodjob:

Nice work here, Ruff! Congratulations! :goodjob:

The latest BUG Glance screen has a fist indicating WAR between two people. This information is also available by looking at the RELATIONS tab. As such, I am going to remove the WAR indicator are replace it with a 'worst enemy' indicator that ... errr ... uses the FIST. If anyone can suggest another icon in the font file, or has the ability to add a dagger to the font file - I'll use that.