We are currently preparing a document to try and get the BUG Mod approved for events at Realms Beyond. Obviously this is a slow process as we need to illustrate the non-spoiler nature of this mod and also work from a stable mod version. We currently have the following sections:
Preliminary
General
Advisors
Clock
Scoreboard
Alerts
Logging
Unit Naming

Bug Option Screens - finished
Preliminary - finished
General - finished
Advisors - finished
Clock - finished
Scoreboard - finished
Alerts - finished
Logging - finished
Unit Naming - finished
Credits - finished (it didn't take long :D)

I will say that there is one group of columns in CDA that could be considered spoilerish: the Global Rank columns. I haven't looked closely at the code, but as I understand it you can see where your cities rank in various areas (gold, science, prod, food, etc.) compared to all other cities in the world, known or unknown.

Other than that, I think we adhere to a non-spoiler nature.

Is there a document somewhere that gives you all the CDA columns that are available?

Sadly, right now it's the CDA.py file. A bunch are mentioned in the comments at the top, and I tried to sync them up, but I may have missed some.

Otherwise, just customize a new page and you see all the columns on the right. They are the "GRANK_foo" ones, IIRC.

perfect documentation :D

Are we going to use 2.0 or 2.1 for our "stable release"? I've noticed that our bug reporting has dropped off a bit, so think we have most of the kinks worked out in the SVN, and the installation issues resolved. If it's 2.1, we should release that this weekend, because otherwise I'll be gone for about 2 weeks. If it is 2.1, I'll try to take some screen shots for what's required. Is so easy to do, but we're all so lazy about screenies.:p

I'm waiting for the next release to finalize the screenies. I have a collection of screenshots that show most / all of the features.

Please can you do a release this week end - that would be great.

Looked for CDA.py and couldn't find it. Then I remembered that EF is a lazy bar***d and looked for CvCustomizableDomesticAdvisor.py - ahh, there it is :D.

Anyway, opened up the python file and found this nice array (see spoiler) ... is this the complete list of columns available?


self.COLUMNS_LIST = [
# Name Width Type CyCityFunction0 CyCityFunction1 Arg selfFunction Arg Title

("NAME", 95, "text", CyCity.getName, None, 0, None, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_DOMESTIC_ADVISOR_NAME\", ()).upper()"),
("ADVISE_CULTURE", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Culture", "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_CULTURE\", ()).upper()"),
("ADVISE_MILITARY", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Military", "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_ADVISOR_MILITARY\", ()).upper()"),
("ADVISE_NUTTY", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Nutty", "u\"NUTTY\""),
("ADVISE_RELIGION", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Religion", "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_RELIGION\", ()).upper()"),
("ADVISE_RESEARCH", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Research", "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_COMMERCE_RESEARCH\", ()).upper()"),
("ADVISE_SPACESHIP", 150, "text", None, None, 0, self.advise, "Spaceship", "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_SPACESHIP\", ()).upper()"),
("AUTOMATION", 80, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateAutomation, None, "u\"AUTO\""),
("BASE_COMMERCE", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getBaseYieldRate, YieldTypes.YIELD_COMMERCE, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.commerceIcon"),
("BASE_FOOD", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getBaseYieldRate, YieldTypes.YIELD_FOOD, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.foodIcon"),
("BASE_PRODUCTION", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getBaseYieldRate, YieldTypes.YIELD_PRODUCTION, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.hammerIcon"),
("CONSCRIPT_UNIT", 90, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateConscriptUnit, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_DRAFT\", ()).upper()"),
("COULD_CONSCRIPT_UNIT", 90, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculatePotentialConscriptUnit, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_DRAFT\", ()).upper() + u\"#\""),
("CORPORATIONS", 90, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateCorporations, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_CORPORATIONS\", ()).upper()"),
("CULTURE", 53, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateTotalCulture, None, "self.cultureIcon"),
("CULTURE_RATE", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getCommerceRate, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_CULTURE, None, None, "self.cultureIcon + u\"R\""),
("CULTURE_TURNS", 38, "int", None, None, None, self.calculateCultureTurns, None, "self.cultureIcon + u\"T\""),
("DEFENSE", 60, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateDefense, None, "self.defenseIcon"),
("ESPIONAGE", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getCommerceRate, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_ESPIONAGE, None, None, "self.espionageIcon"),
("ESPIONAGE_DEF", 60, "int", CyCity.getEspionageDefenseModifier, None, 0, self.calculateEspionageDefense, None, "self.espionageIcon + u\"%\""),
("FEATURES", 106, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateFeatures, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_MISC_FEATURES\", ())"),
("FOOD", 35, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateFood, None, "self.foodIcon"),
("FOUNDED", 80, "date", None, None, 0, self.calculateFounded, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_DOMESTIC_ADVISOR_FOUNDED\", ()).upper()"),
("GARRISON", 30, "int", CyCity.getMilitaryHappinessUnits, None, 0, None, None, "self.militaryIcon"),
("GOLD", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getCommerceRate, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_GOLD, None, None, "self.goldIcon"),
("GRANK_BASE_COMMERCE", 42, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_COMMERCE, "u\"B\" + self.commerceIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_BASE_FOOD", 42, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_FOOD, "u\"B\" + self.foodIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_BASE_PRODUCTION", 42, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_PRODUCTION, "u\"B\" + self.hammerIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_COMMERCE", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_COMMERCE, "self.commerceIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_FOOD", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_FOOD, "self.foodIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_PRODUCTION", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_PRODUCTION, "self.hammerIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_CULTURE", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_CULTURE, "self.cultureIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_GOLD", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_GOLD, "self.goldIcon + u\"g\""),
("GRANK_RESEARCH", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.findGlobalCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_RESEARCH, "self.researchIcon + u\"g\""),
("GREATPEOPLE", 45, "int", CyCity.getGreatPeopleProgress, None, 0, None, None, "self.figureheadIcon"),
("GREATPEOPLE_RATE", 38, "int", CyCity.getGreatPeopleRate, None, 0, None, None, "self.figureheadIcon + u\"R\""),
("GREATPEOPLE_TURNS", 38, "int", None, None, None, self.calculateGreatPeopleTurns, None, "self.figureheadIcon + u\"T\""),
("GROWTH", 35, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateGrowth, None, "self.redfoodIcon"),
("HAPPY", 30, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateNetHappiness, None, "self.happyIcon"),
("HEALTH", 30, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateNetHealth, None, "self.healthIcon"),
("LOCATION_X", 50, "int", CyCity.getX, None, 0, None, None, "u\"X\""),
("LOCATION_Y", 50, "int", CyCity.getY, None, 0, None, None, "u\"Y\""),
("MAINTENANCE", 30, "int", CyCity.getMaintenance, None, 0, None, None, "u\"%c\" % CyGame().getSymbolID(FontSymbols.BAD_GOLD_CHAR)"),
("POPULATION", 35, "int", CyCity.getPopulation, None, 0, None, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_POPULATION\", ()).upper()"),
("POPULATION_REAL", 65, "int", CyCity.getRealPopulation, None, 0, None, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_POPULATION\", ()).upper() + u\"#\""),
("POWER", 50, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculatePower, None, "self.powerIcon"),
("PRODUCING", 90, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateProducing, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_DOMESTIC_ADVISOR_PRODUCING\", ())"),
("PRODUCING_TURNS", 33, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateProducingTurns, None, "self.hammerIcon + u\"T\""),
("PRODUCTION", 38, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateProduction, None, "self.hammerIcon"),
("NRANK_BASE_COMMERCE", 42, "int", None, CyCity.findBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_COMMERCE, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.commerceIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_BASE_FOOD", 42, "int", None, CyCity.findBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_FOOD, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.foodIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_BASE_PRODUCTION", 42, "int", None, CyCity.findBaseYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_PRODUCTION, None, None, "u\"B\" + self.hammerIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_COMMERCE", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_COMMERCE, None, None, "self.commerceIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_FOOD", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_FOOD, None, None, "self.foodIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_PRODUCTION", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findYieldRateRank, YieldTypes.YIELD_PRODUCTION, None, None, "self.hammerIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_CULTURE", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_CULTURE, None, None, "self.cultureIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_GOLD", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_GOLD, None, None, "self.goldIcon + u\"n\""),
("NRANK_RESEARCH", 38, "int", None, CyCity.findCommerceRateRank, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_RESEARCH, None, None, "self.researchIcon + u\"n\""),
("RELIGIONS", 90, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateReligions, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_ADVISOR_RELIGION\", ()).upper()"),
("RESEARCH", 38, "int", None, CyCity.getCommerceRate, CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_RESEARCH, None, None, "self.researchIcon"),
("SPECIALISTS", 209, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateSpecialists, None, "localText.getText(\"TXT_KEY_CONCEPT_SPECIALISTS\", ()).upper()"),
("THREATS", 60, "text", None, None, 0, self.calculateThreats, None, "u\"Threats\""),
("TRADE", 30, "int", None, None, 0, self.calculateTrade, None, "self.tradeIcon"),
]

I prefer php because it is color coded, not that it actually means anything to me - code has wrapping issues with this text too.The GRANK_* look like a bit of a 'no spoiler' problem. Can we either remove them or put in an option to disable their display? I think the quickest way is to mod the following items ...

def findGlobalBaseYieldRateRank (self, city, szKey, arg):
def findGlobalYieldRateRank (self, city, szKey, arg):
def findGlobalCommerceRateRank (self, city, szKey, arg):

... with this bit of code at the top (also need to create the BUG option ... DUH!)

if not BugScreens.isShowCDAGlobals:
return 0

PS: Is there a write up on how to create your own layout and / or use Cammagno's pre-defined layout?

@ ruff ~ has RB ever ruled on features that present data which is technically available in-game, but, through the use of a mod, eg, BUG, is more easily available, such as, happy limits, trade possibilities, etc, being spoiler (or spoiler-ish)?

I'm lazy? You couldn't even finish your word -- just typed a bunch of easy asterisks. :p Besides, all good coders are lazy.

Your plan to hide the columns optionally intrigues me. This would be an option on the Options screen that they can enable/disable themselves ... so I guess RB is on the honor system? That shouldn't be too hard.

@Cammagno - You know that screen the best. Are there any other spoiler columns we should hide?

@ ruff ~ has RB ever ruled on features that present data which is technically available in-game, but, through the use of a mod, eg, BUG, is more easily available, such as, happy limits, trade possibilities, etc, being spoiler (or spoiler-ish)?They did approve one of my clock mods that shows the current turn number. That information isn't available in the game (you have to know the max turns and deduct the F8 (or is it F9) turns to go from that max). They have also approved BlueMarble, editing themes and editing another theme type file that made the city labels bigger when zooming out. They haven't approved anything of BUGs size. I am not knowing what to expect when I lodge my 'approval application'.

I'm lazy? You couldn't even finish your word -- just typed a bunch of easy asterisks. :p Besides, all good coders are lazy.I was half way thru typing that and then thought "wait, EF has done 95% of the coding for BUG, don't want to pi$$ him off" :hide:

Your plan to hide the columns optionally intrigues me. This would be an option on the Options screen that they can enable/disable themselves ... so I guess RB is on the honor system? That shouldn't be too hard.I wasn't planning to hide them, just change the function so that it returned a '0' instead of the actual rank. That seemed like the easiest way to fix the issue.

And, yes RB is definitely on the honor system. That said, the RB events are about playing the game and reporting (with screenshots) so it is fairly easy to see who used a mod. A number of people have been sprung inadvertently using non approved mods (me included). All this does is move your report to a shadow report (ie not technically included in the list of results). RB says that it doesn't approves of people deliberately using a non approved mod but I haven't seen that in the time that I have been there.

"wait, EP has done 95% of the coding for BUG, don't want to pi$$ him off"

:lol: Then perhaps consider calling me "EF" instead of "EP". Heck, it's even easier to type "EF"! :mischief:

I wasn't planning to hide them, just change the function so that it returned a '0' instead of the actual rank.

Agreed. I was just being lazy in my description. I'd probably define a constant called "HIDDEN_VALUE" that equals "?" that we can return from any function that gets "hidden". That way someone could make us a pretty font glyph to use later.

Have I called you EP in all my posts? What a bunt I am! Sorry mate.

Going back and editing all of my posts now.

Agreed. I was just being lazy in my description. I'd probably define a constant called "HIDDEN_VALUE" that equals "?" that we can return from any function that gets "hidden". That way someone could make us a pretty font glyph to use later."?" might be a little misleading ... people could think "drats, I must have done something wrong". How about "n/a" or "~" or "*"?

Anyway, opened up the python file and found this nice array (see spoiler) ... is this the complete list of columns available?


No, it is from the original mod.


The GRANK_* look like a bit of a 'no spoiler' problem. Can we either remove them or put in an option to disable their display? I think the quickest way is to mod the following items ...


I think it's even more easy if I simple remove them from my pages... :)


PS: Is there a write up on how to create your own layout and / or use Cammagno's pre-defined layout?


All the info about how to customize the CDA are in the included readme of the original mod, but anyway it's rather easy.
Use of my pages is thery simple, it's automatic :)
If someone doesn't want to use my layout, he simply has to delete the CustomDomAdv.txt file, and a default one will be created by CDA.

@Cammagno - You know that screen the best. Are there any other spoiler columns we should hide?

I think not.
but why do we have to hide coloumns from option screen if they can be simply removed from the layout and added only by people who wants them?

I think it's even more easy if I simple remove them from my pages... :)Is that the answer? Because, couldn't a player just put the 'spoiler' columns back in? I would prefer a version that couldn't display the spoiler columns.

Where should the CDA.txt file go? And I did read the readme's and must have overlooked that information.

Is that the answer? Because, couldn't a player just put the 'spoiler' columns back in? I would prefer a version that couldn't display the spoiler columns..

Of course a player can put the coloumn back in, but he can do the same if you make them optionally hidden. If you don't want that he can bring them back, we can simply remove them not only from my pages but also from from CDA. This is BUG, so I think its better to remove them.


Where should the CDA.txt file go? And I did read the readme's and must have overlooked that information.

It is CustomDomAdv.txt, it is in the CustomDomAdv folder (which is inside the main dir, at the same level of CustomAssets), and it is placed there automatically by the setup. It can be deleted, and the games create a default one.

further discussion of CDA custom files and spoiler nature of columns moved to here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243524).

all done and submitted to Realms Beyond for approval. The final document can be found at the link below. The thread at Realms Beyond is here (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2612).

http://www.freewebs.com/ruff_hi/BtS Unaltered Gameplay Mod Approval Process.pdf

all done and submitted to Realms Beyond for approval. The final document can be found here.

http://www.freewebs.com/ruff_hi/BtS Unaltered Gameplay Mod Approval Process.pdf

Wonderful work! :goodjob:
Can this be adapted to make a "manual" of BUG to be included in the documentation folder?
Don't worry, I'm not asking you to do it, I'm just asking the permission to do it myself :D (not now, though), and to translate it in Italian... [I have not found a note on copyright, so... better to ask :blush: ]

This document sets out how the BtS Unaltered Gameplay (‘BUG’) modifications
changes the vanilla edition of Civ 4.


Do you mean 'vanilla' as in the original Civ4 game or 'vanilla' as in the version of BTS released by Firaxis? I suspect this is a bit of cut and paste that wasn't amended correctly. :p Equally you probably need to make clear that this applies specifically to BTS 3.13.

Wonderful work! :goodjob:
Can this be adapted to make a "manual" of BUG to be included in the documentation folder?
Don't worry, I'm not asking you to do it, I'm just asking the permission to do it myself :D (not now, though), and to translate it in Italian... [I have not found a note on copyright, so... better to ask :blush: ]Go for it.

Do you mean 'vanilla' as in the original Civ4 game or 'vanilla' as in the version of BTS released by Firaxis? I suspect this is a bit of cut and paste that wasn't amended correctly. :p Equally you probably need to make clear that this applies specifically to BTS 3.13.Arrr - good point. I will amend.

We got the following (and some others) reply from Sullla at RB (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2612). Truth be told, I was expecting this reply because of the 'uneven playing field' argument. I've asked a follow up question.

Ruff (and others), that's a tremendous amount of work that has gone into putting that mod together. I think you know how I feel about mods, so I want to be very clear about going over a decision. First, let's look again at Sirian's take on the issue:

Utilitarian mods are the tough calls. Stuff like Civ3 Mapstat falls in to this category. Mods that are primarily graphical in nature can turn in to utilitarian mods, by design or by accident, so that's the main hurdle they face. It is my intent to approve all graphical mods that are shown to me to have no utilitarian or rebalancing effects. (I don't care what your game looks like. I only care how it plays. However, some graphics can affect gameplay, so that is where I start to care about those.)

Most utilitarian mods will not be approved, but we'll take them case by case -- if "the committee", which does not yet exist, does the leg work of investigating.

I strongly concur with these sentiments. I had no problem with approving Blue Marble, a purely graphical modification, and I think Sirian (eventually) would have gotten around to doing the same. But note what Sirian said about utilitarian mods: "most will not be approved", and I'm of the same mind there. The BUG mod is a gigantic utilitarian mod, reworking a tremendous amount of the information accessible to the player. That's quite a big deal, and a lot different than simply recoloring the look of the terrain.

The prevailing argument for approval of this mod is that it does not provide any information not available to the player somewhere else in-game. While that may be true, I would counter with a related question: when does making information more accessible begin to affect the gameplay? We had the same discussion with Civ3, for those of you who were around back then. Civ3's MapStat utility didn't provide any information that wasn't technically available in-game; you could count up all the tiles on the map by hand, then count up all your tiles and figure out the Domination percentage through calculation. But such a calculation was so tedious, it was clearly something that no one would ever undergo. Providing access to this information actually changed the gameplay and gave players an advantage over those who were not using the utility.

Similarly, there was another Civ3 utility that would notify the player whenever one of their cities was about to revolt (more unhappy faces than happy ones). Now again: this didn't provide any information that the player couldn't figure out themselves, by checking every city every turn. The idea was a good one, to save micromanagement. But if one player was using this mod, and another was not, was the game still a "fair" competition? The former player would never have to worry about city revolts at all, while the latter player would surely lose some production at some point. Everyone would more or less have to start using the mod to ensure a level playing field - not a good thing!

The problem with the BUG mod is that it simply provides too much information; Ruff and the other creators have done too good of a job. For the purely graphical additions - like showing the number of turns to pop a Great Person, rather than requiring a mouseover - this is rather trivial. The net effect of reworking so many game elements, however, adds up to something different. Worst of all is the alert system, which tells the player when cities will grow into unhappiness, when AIs have techs to trade, and when AIs have gold to be pilfered by selling outdated techs. Sure, all of this information is technically available somewhere else in-game, if requiring a great deal more work to access. But I've seen this mod in action in succession games, and I'm forced to conclude that by putting so much information upfront and center, it really does change the gameplay. Furthermore, how can we keep a level playing field when some of our competitors have access to things like the "Glance" screen while others do not?

My primary concern when managing the RBCiv games is to ensure competitive balance, not to make things easier for the players. I think the BUG mod does great work for those who like it; the problem is that things are not equal when some of our players are using bean counters to help them out, and others are not doing so. The BUG mod is therefore not approved for use, unless someone is able to make a persuasive case convincing me otherwise. (I do not expect this to happen.)

I'm sorry to have to turn down such a beautiful proposal, I just feel very strongly that utilitarian mods should be rejected unless absolutely harmless, not the other way around. If there's even the slightest doubt in my mind (and there's significant doubt here), I have to say no.


My follow up question ...
As I said in the proposal - all elements of the BUG mod can be turned off. Can I get a quick reply regarding how you would feel if we stipulated that the BUG mod could be used if selected elements (Alerts, Glance, etc) were disabled via the ini file? What if we put together a mod that excluded these elements (that is actually pretty easy - just hard code the parts that read the ini file to test for access to those components to return FALSE)?

I hate a feeling this would happen when I read over what they said about
Utilitarian Mods when I first saw these docs. I think we'd have to disable so much of BUG to get it approved, that it'd be hardly better then having nothing at all.

Sullla's arguments are hard to counter considering the basic stance of rejecting Utilitarian Mods. And I do agree with him that BUG does change the play in some ways - for example I was only barely moving to micromanagement and Monarch level, which BUG now has made easy for me to do. Having had BUG earlier would've made my jump to Monarch a given.

Thinking about the many features of BUG, I'd guess alerts are the first feature to go. Also a part I would never give up... But if you think about those replies with optimistic world view, maybe alerts will be one of the very few features to go?

i, too, felt it was going to be rejected since it benefits the player so much, the playing tilts to their favor.

ahh well, was looking forward to reporting adv 24

Indeed it would not be very hard to have a stripped down version with hardcoded options for things they shouldn't be able to use. The one minor code change on top of that is an option for the glance tab itself.

And I fully agree with the response that BUG players would have an advantage, being freed up to worry about their game rather than "OMG I missed my chance to whip for 29 overflow!" :)

Honestly guys I don't think we should strip it down. Mainly because once we take something out, they'll want another thing out, and another, and another. I'm worried that by the time they're done we'll have the options switching core, and city cycle arrows.

It really comes down to the coolness factor of being accepted by RB. I don't play much anymore, and I've never participated in RB, so I'm not the guy to decide.

To clarify, "stripping down" means releasing a version that simply forces values for some options, like "False" for "CIV4LERTS_Enabled".

I think it would break down like this:

Definitely In

GP/GG Bars
Clock
Scoreboard
Espionage Screen
Raw Commerce/Production
City Cycle Arrows (powerful!)
Logging
Unit Naming
Sevopedia

Maybe Cut

Reminders (is this too advantageous??)

Definitely Out

Glance tab
Alerts

Here is Sullla's response. He restricted himself to the option tabs which is what I asked.

Warning: Sirian-length post ahead. :lol:

As I said in the proposal - all elements of the BUG mod can be turned off. Can I get a quick reply regarding how you would feel if we stipulated that the BUG mod could be used if selected elements (Alerts, Glance, etc) were disabled via the ini file? What if we put together a mod that excluded these elements (that is actually pretty easy - just hard code the parts that read the ini file to test for access to those components to return FALSE)?

Good question. Obviously some of the elements of the mod are relatively harmless. (Adding a clock to the corner of the screen isn't exactly gamebreaking! :)) My concern is that when you start piling up dozens of small changes, any one of which may be innocuous, the net result starts to turn into something else. I know some people just like modding, but I don't quite understand the thinking behind some of the changes. If presenting the information in a slightly different fashion is so trivial, why bother to make the change at all?

Anyway, since you requested looking at the elements individually, here's a more thorough break down:

General: Even though most of these seem trivial, I'm dubious about any mod that adds new functionality to the game engine. For instance, the raw commerce/raw production is definitely NOT something that exists in the unmodded version of the game. I know, I know: anyone can calculate the information by hand. But it's still not the same thing, because it provides a bean counter that does not otherwise exist. This section overall has to get a veto stamp for now. (I am not going to go through every little individual aspect of each section. The Culture Turns and Great Person Turns would probably be fine, but since they are SO trivial, I don't see the point of jumping through hoops to get the approved. Just mouseover the bars!)

Advisors: This one too is a no-go. It's simply not fair to have some players customizing their domestic advisor in ways that other players cannot do. We already mentioned the Glance tab, the improved Espionage screen was already added to the main game in the v3.13 patch (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and is the SevoPedia really important enough to go through the mod approval process? If people care enough, I suppose we could approve that one, I just don't understand why it would matter...

Clock: Everything here is a non-issue, and in fact many of the features were added in Beyond the Sword anyway. Besides, we more or less already approved this mod when it was called the Simple Clock Mod (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1403), so I can't go back on that now.

Scoreboard: The Display names doesn't affect gameplay in any way, aside from the possibility of a confusing "Allow Unrestricted Leaders" game, but that doesn't seem like enough reason to disapprove it. I personally detest the smiley faces to indicate relations (I think they look incredibly ugly), but again all it does is save the effort of a mouseover. That's not enough reason to ban its use. Dead civilizations display is meaningless. The power ratio is definitely not OK, however. That adds new information that is not available to the player without performing a series of calculations. This will not be allowed in RBCiv competitions.

Alerts: As mentioned previously, when the game is modded to issue reminders that it would not have given otherwise, this is an alteration to the gameplay. These changes will not be accepted.

Logging: Ugh, what a can of worms this one is. I think it's well known that I detest the auto-logger, but I'll try not to let that color my opinions. If used solely for the purposes of an aid to report writing, there's no reason not to allow the logger. The problem is that there's no way to ensure that players won't look at the logger until after the game is finished. If the player is actively using the autologger as an aid while playing, it can provide an enormous quanitity of information, so much so that it falls into the "MapStat" category mentioned in the previous post. There is unfortunately absolutely no way to ensure that players are using the logger legitimately as an aid to report-writing, rather than as a gameplay aid.

For these reasons, I am planning on disallowing the logger for RBCiv competitions. On a more personal note, I really do dislike the logger and would vastly prefer that our community members use alternate ways of putting their reports together. However, I'm prepared to be reasonable on this one; if there's a huge groundswell of opinion asking for use of the autologger, I will accede to the requests of the community. Personally though, I hope that that does not happen. ;)

Unit Naming: This has no effect on gameplay. I don't entirely understand the interest, but sure, why not. Maybe it will even make for more entertaining reports.

To summarize:

General - not approved
Advisors - not approved
Clock - approved
Scoreboard - approved aside from "power ratio" (which is not approved)
Alerts - not approved
Logging - not approved
Unit Naming - approved

I hope this clarifies things, and answers what you're looking for. :)

and my response to that ...

Thx Sullla - sorry to eat up your time with the question. I see enough red lines to pull the plug on a RB version. Unit naming is fun just for scouts called "Recon Delta" and workers called "Drones".

Cheers,

Ruff :D

Wonderful work! :goodjob:
Can this be adapted to make a "manual" of BUG to be included in the documentation folder?
Don't worry, I'm not asking you to do it, I'm just asking the permission to do it myself :D (not now, though), and to translate it in Italian... [I have not found a note on copyright, so... better to ask :blush: ]

I've done and updated it. It's not a full manual, only a configuration guide (so it is called BUG Configuration.doc). It is made for mor than 90% with the file used for RB Aproval, and it is limited to version 2.1. The new addition will be added later.

I've done and updated it. It's not a full manual, only a configuration guide (so it is called BUG Configuration.doc). It is made for mor than 90% with the file used for RB Aproval, and it is limited to version 2.1. The new addition will be added later.

Updated to 2.11 version :)