Barbarians spawning *on* mountains (impassable), and *in* my cultural borders? Heck, in my city territory on squares i'm using? What ze hell? This is really ridiculous - as if the Incans weren't in bad enough shape as it was. I mean, i'd already noticed barbarians can spawn in line of sight in RFC, which is mildly annoying, but in your cultural territory is just ridiculous. And on mountains? I can't even attack them before they get to do some damage.

I agree it was quite frustrating as my first try as the Mayan

Incas wasn't very powerful so it has to be represented in game :P

It happens everywhere not just in the Andes. As Persia I've lost loads of workers with barbarian Horse Archers spawning inside my lands and attacking my helpless workers before I could have my turn. This taught me the lesson to always escort them with spearmen :P

Incas wasn't very powerful so it has to be represented in game :P

I don't recall the Incans being plagued by 'barbarians'. Not being very powerful and being attacked by barbarians are two very different things.

I don't recall the Incans being plagued by 'barbarians'. Not being very powerful and being attacked by barbarians are two very different things.

It's just a game- it can't be 100% realistic. And it's hard to represent weakness of Inca :P

It's just a game- it can't be 100% realistic. And it's hard to represent weakness of Inca :P

Actually its pretty easy to represent the weakness of the Incas. They start in 1150 AD in the *stone age*, they have pretty crappy city sites available to them to start, and they're going to be behind in technology when the europeans arrive. Even if they somehow manage to catch up, they have no domesticated animals, which notably means no horses, and therefore no way to build mounted units. They have no iron (no pikemen) unless they can get all the way to central or eastern Brazil. And to top it all off, the first european invader is going to bring smallpox (plague), which will run rampant through your cities and totally annihilate most of your military. All of that is *already in the game*, we don't need crazy barbarian spawns on top of that. (Besides SAm "barbarians" should be Archers, not Dog Soldiers. Heck, it would make the Incan UU actually useful, as right now it serves no purpose whatsoever except perhaps taking Tucume).

The Inca had great problems dealing with the Mapuche to the south - they really fluffed an invasion in 1461. After them, Spain had similar problems, especially the Araucania Mapuche under their inspired leader Lautaro. After Spain, Chile had similar problems, although by this time they had mostly crossed the Andes into Patagonia. They weren't subdued until the 19th century after hundreds of years of continuous struggles. So the southern groups that spawn in the game are particularly realistic; I was really pleased to see them there when I first met them.

Cheers, Luke

Oh, and Squirrelloid, the bit about the barbarians (natives, actually, IIRC? - important difference for XP awarded!) not being dog-soldiers, well that would be right. The Mapuche were militarily rather well organised and alternated companies of archers and spearmen in a 1:1 ratio. In game terms I'd have them spawn with two archers and two holkans instead of 3 dog-soldiers, for an equivalent threat level. The Mapuche spearmen were more like pikemen in terms of equipment, but didn't learn to ground their "spears" until several losses against Spanish horsemen, so don't rate being Civ pikemen. After that, however they managed to deal with the Spanish quite effectively, and their formations were called tercios by contemporaries, just like their Spanish opposites, except for substituting archers for arqubusiers. So if I had my way, the holkans would be replced with pikemen in the 1550s.

The ones that spawn up in Columbia should indeed all be archers. (A few tribes had spearmen, which would be best rated as holkans, but the overwhelming majority were archers). And the Incans had no problem taking them on, unlike the tribes to the south, so their Quecha will then be useful, as you say.

Cheers, Luke