I'll start it off, an asteroid exploding in the atmosphere over Rome destroying the City in the time of Augustus.

The asteriod explode in the atmosphere right?

The effect would be similar to the Tunguska event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event).

From teh wiki:
The energy of the blast was estimated to be between 10 and 20 megatons[5] of TNT — 1,000 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The explosion felled an estimated 80 million trees over 2,150 square kilometers (830 sq mi). It is estimated to have measured 5.0 on the Richter scale.


So Rome would be flattened. This would likely have two effect. One is, the Roman Empire break up into warring generals, fighting for control. It's likely one would triumph in the end and rebuild Rome. The other effect is on religion. I mean, if the city of Rome get wiped out within a matter of seconds, a Roman would question his religious beliefs.

The asteriod explode in the atmosphere right?

The effect would be similar to the Tunguska event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event).

From teh wiki:


So Rome would be flattened. This would likely have two effect. One is, the Roman Empire break up into warring generals, fighting for control. It's likely one would triumph in the end and rebuild Rome. The other effect is on religion. I mean, if the city of Rome get wiped out within a matter of seconds, a Roman would question his religious beliefs.

I was basing it exactly on the Tunguska event, lol. The whole warring Generals fighting for control is along the lines of what I thought, but I didn't think of the Religious ramifications. Would they interpret it as Jupiter being made at Rome for... whatever... and maybe decide not to reform it? In fact, would Christianity even exist?

I would think Christianity (and perhaps Judaism and Zoroastrianism) would become more popular as people switch from the old Roman gods who obviously cannot protect the Roman people (then again, they might think it's the gods' punishment for the sins of Rome and began purging people of other religions and even more fanatical about their religion. Which would be more likely?)

I would think Christianity (and perhaps Judaism and Zoroastrianism) would become more popular as people switch from the old Roman gods who obviously cannot protect the Roman people (then again, they might think it's the gods' punishment for the sins of Rome and began purging people of other religions and even more fanatical about their religion. Which would be more likely?)

Well, Christianity wasn't around for Augustus.

Jesus began preaching a short time after Augustus' death, so let's say the asteriod impact occurred sometime around AD5 or AD10. After that, civil war. Who ever was ruling Jerusalem might choose to adopt the new religion Christianity as opposed to old Roman gods.

Jesus began preaching a short time after Augustus' death, so let's say the asteriod impact occurred sometime around AD5 or AD10. After that, civil war. Who ever was ruling Jerusalem might choose to adopt the new religion Christianity as opposed to old Roman gods.

Christianity didn't exist until after the death of Jesus in 33ad, before that, it was technically a sect. Plus, Jesus would be between the ages of 5 and 10. Speaking of which, I would think a massive rebellion would ensue in Palestine if Rome was destroyed, I mean, tales would trickle down the trade routes of Rome being destroyed in a white flash. They would think it divine intervention. Hell, I would have if I was a jew in that time. So, two choices emerge out of a complete Jewish rebellion. A)The complete destruction of the Jewish people(possibly including Jesus) or B)An independent Judea, in which Jesus would not be needed.

What if the Maccabees had been defeated by the Seleucids? Monotheism may very well have died with them.
What if the Chinese had continued their vast sea-faring expeditions?
And most importantly of all, what if Bugs Bunny had remembered to turn left at Albuquerque?

Christianity didn't exist until after the death of Jesus in 33ad, before that, it was technically a sect. Plus, Jesus would be between the ages of 5 and 10. Speaking of which, I would think a massive rebellion would ensue in Palestine if Rome was destroyed, I mean, tales would trickle down the trade routes of Rome being destroyed in a white flash. They would think it divine intervention. Hell, I would have if I was a jew in that time. So, two choices emerge out of a complete Jewish rebellion. A)The complete destruction of the Jewish people(possibly including Jesus) or B)An independent Judea, in which Jesus would not be needed.


However, Jesus by bloodline had a claim to the throne of Israel. Depending on when this caastrophe occurred, he might have been more welcomed than he was. Remember, the Jews who "killed" Jesus did so just as much out of fear of the Romans' response to a "rightful" king of Israel (Herod was pretty much installed by the Romans, he was not of the family of David, as Jesus was), so if they didn't have the wrath of their Roman occupiers to fear, the Jewish community might have better accepted Jesus as a leader, assuming Herod didn't track him down before then.

What if... an ingenious Vietnamese in the style of Leonardo da Vinci not killed by the Ming Dynasty Chinese invasions of the early 1400s developed primitive tanks and advanced-level muskets?

Same as with many of Leonardo's ideas, he would lack the tools to actually build them.

^but... he managed to develop them with the resources he had.

(this is suppose to be "insane", ain't it?)

let us assume this Vietnamese gentleman was able to, with the technology and resources available, develop primitive types of tanks and gun weaponry based on steam power.

What if John III Sobieski fell of his horse broke his leg and bled to death in the summer of 1683?

What if Hitler said "I don't feel like invading Russia"

What if the English Armarda took a wrong turn at Calais?

And for the love of god! What would have happen Ross didnt go "on a break"!

What if, assuming the Theory of Evolution is correct (;)), the first cell ever to exist died the first second of its existence?

What if Vietnam never gained independence from China?

What if the Chinese took their rocket technology further, and were able to develop real cruise missiles?

What if the Mongol armies used the cruise missile technology as deveoped above?

What if the Ancient Egyptians survived the Romans, the Muslims, and the Mongols?

However, Jesus by bloodline had a claim to the throne of Israel. Depending on when this caastrophe occurred, he might have been more welcomed than he was. Remember, the Jews who "killed" Jesus did so just as much out of fear of the Romans' response to a "rightful" king of Israel (Herod was pretty much installed by the Romans, he was not of the family of David, as Jesus was), so if they didn't have the wrath of their Roman occupiers to fear, the Jewish community might have better accepted Jesus as a leader, assuming Herod didn't track him down before then.

However, Jesus would not have been crucified, taking the center of Christianity without his crucifixion. They might have possibly accepted him as a leader, but as a messiah? The Jews were expecting a military leader to defeat the romans, not a religious messiah... another question is, would Jesus have wanted to be the leader of Judea? If not...

What if, assuming the Theory of Evolution is correct (;)), the first cell ever to exist died the first second of its existence?

We got to wait another 4 million years for another go

What if Vietnam never gained independence from China?

They could fight of the French and spared colonialism?

What if the Chinese took their rocket technology further, and were able to develop real cruise missiles?

They would keep it in their super secret arsenal-of-weopens-that-is-cool-to-have-but-we-hardly-use. But I bet they will be able to withstand any war and invasion any country has to throw until maybe WWII

What if the Mongol armies used the cruise missile technology as deveoped above?

Good Europe, hello empty plot of land for horse grazing!

What if the Ancient Egyptians survived the Romans, the Muslims, and the Mongols?

They wont survive the Ottomans or the Europeans

They wont survive the Ottomans or the Europeans

what if they did? ;)

"Pharaoh Ramses XXXXXXXXXXXXIII of the Egyptians has declared war on Bush!"

:p

What if John III Sobieski fell of his horse broke his leg and bled to death in the summer of 1683?

There'd be no Poland spam threads on CFC.

What if Hitler said "I don't feel like invading Russia"

Then Stalin would say, "I feel like invading Hitler"

What if the English Armarda took a wrong turn at Calais?

Then maybe I'd be speaking French.

And for the love of god! What would have happen Ross didnt go "on a break"!

No idea.

oaijfoaijfdoafij10chars

oaijfoaijfdoafij10chars

Meh why french?

^wait... what Calais are you talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calais
This one


What I meant was if in 1588, instead of turning west at Calais into the English Channel, they went East into the North Sea, letting the Spanish to land in England

However, Jesus would not have been crucified, taking the center of Christianity without his crucifixion. They might have possibly accepted him as a leader, but as a messiah? The Jews were expecting a military leader to defeat the romans, not a religious messiah... another question is, would Jesus have wanted to be the leader of Judea? If not...

I guess we'd all be Muslims then, and Jesus would just be one of our greatest prophets, instead of The Messiah. Assuming, of course, that God didn't find another way for him to be martyred, which is of course possible.

^wait... what Calais are you talking about?

I would imagine the city occupying the Pont de Calais, in France.

What I meant was if in 1588, instead of turning west at Calais into the English Channel, they went East into the North Sea, letting the Spanish to land in England

oh, then i'd... hmm, ack, maybe i woulod be wiped out in an apocalyptic struggle between Modern Spanish Conquestadores wielding bazookas and laser guns and rebel Chinese/Vietnamese/Japanese/Koreans/Etc. with rocket launchers and machine guns.

I guess we'd all be Muslims then, and Jesus would just be one of our greatest prophets, instead of The Messiah. Assuming, of course, that God didn't find another way for him to be martyred, which is of course possible.


I'm speaking from a secular position, so we agree to disagree on the whole "God would find another way to kill his son" shtick. Anyway... interesting point on Islam, though Islam would be changed, because Jesus is an important figure in Islam.

I'm speaking from a secular position, so we agree to disagree on the whole "God would find another way to kill his son" shtick. Anyway... interesting point on Islam, though Islam would be changed, because Jesus is an important figure in Islam.

Okay, from a purely secular position, if Jesus was never martyred, then he would be one of the prophets of Islam, pretty much as he is now. We'd remeber him as we do David or Solomon, as a great leader of Israel and messenger of God, there'd probably a picture of him on the qibla wall, lol.

What if John III Sobieski fell of his horse broke his leg and bled to death in the summer of 1683?

Nothing much. Vienna would be captured by the Ottomans, but then the Ottoman Empire would've grown too large to be governed properly (and considering that they have weak sultans at this time) and they would've been beaten back.

What if Hitler said "I don't feel like invading Russia"

Hitler would've not invaded England, but instead he might've chosen to concentrate on the North Africa front. Rommel might've well gotten to the Suez Canal. The Middle East might've belong to Nazis or regimes symphathetic to Germans (eg Rashid Ali's Iraq). The route to India would've also been cut. Japan might've chosen to invade India, now isolated, which would've united against the invaders (the British elite would've to reconcile with the locals, and Hindus and Muslims would've put their differences aside. A sense of Indian nationality might developed, and partition may not have occurred). If Germany have chosen then to invade the Soviet Union, then it will be able to invade it from three fronts - Central Asia, Caucasus, Eastern Europe (if not four, since Japan might well have chosen to invade from Manchuria). The USSR would be in big trouble - probably not conquered, since its so large, but could well have been beaten to submission.

What if Frederick Barbarossa had been wearing a snorkel and floaties when crossing the Saleph River?

What if Frederick Barbarossa had been wearing a snorkel and floaties when crossing the Saleph River?

He will stab Richard instead of leaving Acre?

WHAT IF Hitler instead of killing 6 million jews gave them each a rifle and said:

"Here, lets go east together!"

Christianity didn't exist until after the death of Jesus in 33ad, before that, it was technically a sect.

Jesus probably died in AD 30, although the only real certainty is that it was between AD 26 and AD 36 (when Pilate was around).

If Rome had been destroyed in the time of Augustus, then there would have been no Jewish revolt in the 60s and the Temple would not have been destroyed in AD 70. Judaism would have evolved in a completely different way from how it did and Christianity would probably never have existed - or, if it did exist, it would also do so in a very different way, perhaps remaining within Judaism.

However, Jesus by bloodline had a claim to the throne of Israel.

That's just later myth-making. No-one in Jesus' day could possibly have had any verifiable claim to be a descendant of King David, a figure of semi-legend who lived over a thousand years earlier. As far as I know, is there any reason to suppose that Jesus or anyone in his lifetime even made such a claim. When the later Gospel writers and others made this claim, it was simply part of their wider theological claim about who Jesus was and where he fitted into God's plan. Making Jesus a descendant of David says something significant about him and about his relationship to God, just as drawing parallels with Moses (as Matthew also does - eg the story of the massacre of the innocents and the flight to Egypt) says something else significant too.

Remember, the Jews who "killed" Jesus did so just as much out of fear of the Romans' response to a "rightful" king of Israel (Herod was pretty much installed by the Romans, he was not of the family of David, as Jesus was), so if they didn't have the wrath of their Roman occupiers to fear, the Jewish community might have better accepted Jesus as a leader, assuming Herod didn't track him down before then.

The Jews didn't kill Jesus, the Romans did, and they did so because he was a trouble-maker during the very volatile period of Passover. As I said, there's no reason to suppose that Jesus was really "of the house of David", at least no more than anyone else - it's like someone today claiming to be "of the house of Charlemagne"!

Also, the Romans weren't "occupiers" of Israel. There were only about 3,000 troops in the entire country and they spent almost all their time in Neocaesarea, on the coast. In the time of Jesus the place was run by the tetrarchs or, in the case of Jerusalem, the high priest.

The Herodians did suffer from some unpopularity in virtue of not being quite properly Jewish, at least in the eyes of some of their subjects, but I think on the whole this was low-level muttering rather than the cause of serious discontent - rather like people complaining that Gordon Brown is Scottish. Like most politicians, the Herodians were generally judged on the basis of their actions, not their background. Thus, for example, Antipas ruled more or less OK and enjoyed the relative approval of his people, while Archelaus proved to be very bad and had to be replaced. So I don't see any reason why the people might have particularly wanted to chuck the Herodians out in favour of any supposed descendant of David.

What if Columbus had a mutiny the day before reaching America?

What if Israel had lost the 6 Day War?

What if the Muslims weren't turned back at that battle in France (forgot the name!)

What if France not only repelled England, but they conquered it during the 100 Years war?

What if George Washington was shot in the head during the crossing of the Delaware?

What if the Mongols had successfully conquered Japan?

What if America sided with the Axis during WWII?

What if Winston Churchill had died in that 1931 New York traffic accident?

The loss of one man could have been a disaster on a world scale.

At Mythmonster
The battle name is either Tours or Poiters, although Tours is the more common name because Poiters is a major battle in the Hundred Years War. It is highly probable that if the Muslims won, the fledgling Carolingian Empire would have broken apart, but the Moors would not have pressed on ward because there army was roughly 75% cavalry, so it was a raiding expedition. Although since there would be not any European force strong enough to hold the muslims back, eventualy europe would be muslim. Also, no Charlemagne, no France, no HRE.
Heres a question, if Basil II Bulgaroctonos (Bulgar Slayer) had left a legit successor, and the throne had not passed to his drunken and near insane half-brother ALexander, how would Byzantine History be different?

What if America had lost the revolutionary war

WHAT IF Hitler instead of killing 6 million jews gave them each a rifle and said:

"Here, lets go east together!"

An awful lot of the Jewish (and other) victims of the Holocaust were actually taken from the territories captured in the east.

What if Medina Sidonia's ship had been the only ship lost at sea prior to the Armada reachin England?

What if France had conquered the English colonies in North America?

What if... Abraham (the one from Judaism) got killed by some random plague at the age of two?

What if... Empress Dowager Cixi of the Qing Dynasty died in an accident early in her life, and thus more open-minded Qing officials were able to reform China sucessfully enough that it won the First Sino-Japanese War?

What if... the last Mayan city, Tayasal, never fell to the Spanish in 1697, but instead even survived as a modern political entity that is a powerhouse in Central America, controlling the Panama Canal and oil fields (that are supposed to be Venezuela's)?

What if... Catherine the Great's husband, Tsar Peter, was not an ugly, incapable idiot, but a loving, nice guy and a capable statesman? (well, for one thing, Catherine may not even be a playable leader in Civ4!)

What if a 20 megaton Nuclear bomb had been dropped in Rome in A.D.200?

That's just later myth-making. No-one in Jesus' day could possibly have had any verifiable claim to be a descendant of King David, a figure of semi-legend who lived over a thousand years earlier. As far as I know, is there any reason to suppose that Jesus or anyone in his lifetime even made such a claim. When the later Gospel writers and others made this claim, it was simply part of their wider theological claim about who Jesus was and where he fitted into God's plan. Making Jesus a descendant of David says something significant about him and about his relationship to God, just as drawing parallels with Moses (as Matthew also does - eg the story of the massacre of the innocents and the flight to Egypt) says something else significant too.


You see, I think the same thing, but Jesus was a very charismatic figure, If he had still emerged, and if he still acted like a messiah figure, it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination for him to be crowned "King of Judea" or even "King of the Jews". It also wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination for him to have a claim at least in the minds of the Jews to the throne of David.

What if it was, for some reason, a French terrorist who shot Archduke Fernidard?

What if the dinosaurs weren't wiped out?

What if Gandhi was executed by the British?

What if the Confederates beat the North, conquered Canada as well as the rest of the Western Hemisphere?

What if the Confederates beat the North, conquered Canada as well as the rest of the Western Hemisphere?

Well, thats just a plain old impossibility.

Well, I remember a book that I forgot the name of, but in it...

What if someone from the present teleported to the Civil War and introduced a deadly new weapon to the South... the AK-47!

And that's why it's called "What if?"

What if George Washington was shot in the head during the crossing of the Delaware?

What if the dinosaurs weren't wiped out?
LOL
and
Picture the Flintstones, but with a jurassic park feel. Nah. Just picture a planet w/o large mammals and and mega-dinosaurs that totally pwn.

What if Winston Churchill had died in that 1931 New York traffic accident?

The loss of one man could have been a disaster on a world scale.
I'd have faith in the British. a lot.


WHAT IF the French never sold the Louisiana Purchase?

The Swedes and Dutch had long lasting holds in North America?

Stalin and Hitler weren't such jerks?

The Mongols made it to Japan without bad weather?

Europe didn't dissolve into such petty, fanatically religious factions after the fall of Rome?

If crazy Roman Emperors hadn't been so crazy?

If the 300 Spartans got all woozy at the sight of blood?

If huge extinctions hadn't limited the worlds gene pool, resulting in unimaginable species!?!?!

Kevin Dyson made it that extra yard?

Europe didn't dissolve into such petty, fanatically religious factions after the fall of Rome?

Europa vs. Zhongguo for control of the world!!!!!!!!!

Europa vs. Zhongguo for control of the world!!!!!!!!!

Is it evil to think about that being awesome? Subbing Europe for Ameirca, we could see something like that soon. OOooooOOoo Battlefield 2 knows where its at

^:lol:

How about this, ladies and gentlemen:

WHat if Gore won the 2000 election, regardless of how it happened? :)

what if the aztecs had defeated the cortezez army?

^:lol:

How about this, ladies and gentlemen:

WHat if Gore won the 2000 election, regardless of how it happened? :)

Some would say the terrorists would have won. They are idiots. I say, hmm... maybe no Iraq war, unless he was pressued into it, but I really don't see too much of difference, unless he launched a war against global warming. And then I see him getting voted out in 04.

what if the aztecs had defeated the cortezez army?
Repeated invasions, but maybe growth in aztec power after each one, acquiring technology and all that good stuff.
What if the Zulu had repelled the Brits?

What if the Zulu had repelled the Brits?

Newspaper headline, c. 1941:

Zulus Repel Axis Invasion

or

Newspaper Headline, c. 2004

King Shaka VI Has Talks with Bush

try this:

mathematician who invented arabic numeral system dies at age of 1.

what if the aztecs had defeated the cortezez army?

The Spanish would have probably sent in another group. Of course, the Aztec (as well as their allies and their enemies) had been severely stricken with smallpox, so it would have been easier. The Tlaxcala might still have either allied with the Spanish or attacked them on their own, the Aztec were guaranteed to get weaker as a result of contact.

What if... the first man was never born (works in both Evolution Theory and Religious Way)?

Then the second man would have moved up to number one.

What if Dumbledore wasn't gay?

Since a lot of these things require extremely vivid imaginations, I'd rather focus on smaller changes (well, marginally smaller at the time).

What if the Americans, South Koreans, and UN soldiers made it to the Yalu River?
What if the North Koreans were able to overrun Pusan?

Maybe the only thing that changes is that all of Korea is the personal property of Lil' Kim, but it may have affected how much effort we put into further confrontations.

Then the second man would have moved up to number one.

:lol:

let me try to reword that

What if the human race was exterminated the moment it was created?

Then life would go on as it had the day before.

Maybe the only thing that changes is that all of Korea is the personal property of Lil' Kim, but it may have affected how much effort we put into further confrontations.

Easy, no Vietnam.

What if the heritage of ancient Greece had been completely lost?

What if Phillip Arrhidaeus had been compos mentis?

What if the first Dutch explorers had thought the Australian continent wasn't really THAT bad?

What if Rico and Tony hadn't fought over Lola at the Copacabana?

What if... while fighting each other, both Romulus and Remus got killed, thus making it that Rome never ever ever got founded?

What if... Ashoka's Buddhist missionaries sucessfully spread Buddhism completely to all the Middle East (including Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia, Egypt, and even Greece let's say)?

What if... a asteroid exploded over or on Northern Europe c. 100 CE, virtually wiping out most of the Germanic Barbarians but keeping the Roman Empire intact enough?

Well, Remus and Romulus were mythical, so their deaths wouldn't have meant much. If Rome never got founded, I expect the Greeks would have ended up having influence in a different way.

Well, Remus and Romulus were mythical, so their deaths wouldn't have meant much. If Rome never got founded, I expect the Greeks would have ended up having influence in a different way.
The really interesting possibility might have been the Gauls never getting creamed by Caesar, which might have shifted political power in Europe more towards the northwest and away from the Mediterranean centuries early.

try this:

mathematician who invented arabic numeral system dies at age of 1.

Shouldn't that be "mathematician who invented arabic numeral system dies at the age of I"?

Well, Remus and Romulus were mythical, so their deaths wouldn't have meant much. If Rome never got founded, I expect the Greeks would have ended up having influence in a different way.

I was assuming they were real. :)


Okay, heres another one that popped into my head:

What if... the Warring States of China somehow permanently separated in the same manner the Roman Empire permanently "collapsed", meaning that a number of centuries after the Zhou Dynasty, the various states such as Qin or Shu were completely independent international entities?

Shouldn't that be "mathematician who invented arabic numeral system dies at the age of I"?

Or:

๑
一
א
१
١

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system#Types_of_numeral_systems

I was assuming they were real. :)


Okay, heres another one that popped into my head:

What if... the Warring States of China somehow permanently separated in the same manner the Roman Empire permanently "collapsed", meaning that a number of centuries after the Zhou Dynasty, the various states such as Qin or Shu were completely independent international entities?

Japan would have still conquered it during WW2 and after they retreated at the end of the war, there would some kind of Europe like "Chinese Union"

Here's mine:
What if there was some kind of fair Treaty of Versailles, and Europe would unite X years later.
Would Europe still have colonies today? Would there still be a cold war?
Would the US be as big as today? Would the world be more peaceful because
Europe still controls half the world?:crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye:

edit: forget it...

Japan would have still conquered it during WW2 and after they retreated at the end of the war, there would some kind of Europe like "Chinese Union"

Japan may have not even existed as we know it if there was no unified China.

although i suppose there could be some kind of "chinese union". "middle kingdom union". "non-barbarian union".

...

What if it was the Byzantines, and not the Chinese, that first developed gunpowder (let's just say Theodora did it ;))?

The really interesting possibility might have been the Gauls never getting creamed by Caesar, which might have shifted political power in Europe more towards the northwest and away from the Mediterranean centuries early.
I doubt it- NW Europe didn't become the centre of European power until the Industrial Era, long after the fall of Rome.
In fact, if anything, NW Europe would take longer to develop, as a limit on Roman power may have prevented it collapsing as it did, so Europe would never have fallen into the Dark Ages and the Industrial Revolution may have begun in Italy (or elsewhere in the Mediterranean), rather than in Britain.

What if the USSR was still around?
What if the central powers had won WW1?

What if America had decided to nip Communism in the bud in 1945?

What if the Cuban missile crisis had gone thew other way? (war)

What if the Cuban missile crisis had gone thew other way? (war)

Civilization may have never been developed. :)

And we could all be dead or eating each other.

...

What if... assuming the Bible is correct in its present form, Moses never got to the Red Sea and instead the Egyptians caught up with him, caputred him, and took him and the Jews back to Egypt?

If the Bible is correct in its present form, then God was behind the whole thing and it was inevitable.

Reminds me of a what if story someone once wrote about Jesus not being crucified. He said that Christians would consider the scenario blasphemous; but really, Christians would just see it as irrelevant.

^er... you know what i mean. :)

What if America never declared independence?

Or Rome was still the strongest country in the world today?

What if there had been no BiG Bang???

This thread was better with the initial outragous scenario rather than everyone just posting their own stupid scenarios. I hereby move to return to the original crazy topic.

What if... a freak hurricane blasted apart half of China in the 11th century (Song Dynasty), say about 1025, causing widespread destruction and stagnation in the central and southern parts of the country?

This thread was better with the initial outragous scenario rather than everyone just posting their own stupid scenarios. I hereby move to return to the original crazy topic.
I think that was the idea- I mean, the OPs words were "I'll start it off". Carries certain implications, no?

@Cyberxkhan- That'd be one hell of a hurricane... I suppose what'd happen is that, during the Mongol conquests, Ghenghis would have continued south to conquer all of China rather than heading of to Pesia. This would probably lead to the Mongols becoming more quickly Sinicised and so they would not have expanded their empire to the extent they did. This would have a huge domino effect, of course, probably have a considerable effect on the development of Eurasian history. For example, it may have prevented the Bubonic Plague from spreading, which would have prevented capitalism from growing in Europe and lead to industrialism emerging much more slowly.

What if... a freak hurricane blasted apart half of China in the 11th century (Song Dynasty), say about 1025, causing widespread destruction and stagnation in the central and southern parts of the country?

:lol:
Hope you mean typhoon. Hurricanes form off the west coast of africa.

What if Mohammed converted to Christianity?

And for the love of god! What would have happen Ross didnt go "on a break"!

What would have happened if it hadn't been a juice-box Rachel had rolled over?

Hope you mean typhoon. Hurricanes form off the west coast of africa.

crud! yeah.

What if Mohammed converted to Christianity?

0.25% of the world would be Christian, 0.25% of the world would be Zoraostranistist, 0.25% of the world woulod be Hindu, and 0.25% of the world would be Buddhist.


What if... gunpowder was accidentally invented by the Chinese not c.900 AD, but c. 225 AD, by Zhuge Liang of the Shu Kingdom (from The Three Kingdoms)???

0.25% of the world would be Christian, 0.25% of the world would be Zoraostranistist, 0.25% of the world would be Hindu, and 0.25% of the world would be Buddhist.

What about the other 99%?

What if Theodoric of York (Medieval Barber) didn't say "nah", and actually went through with all his crazy ideas?

What about the other 99%?

0,25 x 4 = 1 (1 whole is equal to 100%).

0,25 x 4 = 1 (1 whole is equal to 100%).

0.25% is 1/400.

What about the other 99%?

:lol: you know what i mean. :)

What if General Anthony McAuliffe hadn't said "NUTS!" but something less funny, if defiant at all?
What if Jesus liked being a Jewish magician too much to spread God's love?

What if the Ottomans didn't join the Central Powers in WWI?

What if 1 man, as unimportant, lonely and isolated as you want, who was born 200 years ago had not been born?

Answer:
The whole history, beginning with 199 years ago, would be totally different. Unrecognizable.

^yes, i am very well aware of that concept. :)

But anyhow...

What if... Neanderthals didn't die out as a species, but instead grew to numbers equal to that of humans?

What if 1 man, as unimportant, lonely and isolated as you want, who was born 200 years ago had not been born?

Answer:
The whole history, beginning with 199 years ago, would be totally different. Unrecognizable.
What if I had chosen Salt & Vinegar crisps today, instead of Cheese & Onion! All of history, beggining today, would be totally different. Unrecognisable.

Everything is history, therefore anything can change history. It's all relative.

Besides, the assertion that history would be unrecognisable is somewhat presumptuous- the point is that history could be changed dramatically, not that it will be. Most people really don't matter very much in the grand scheme of things. And even if history was extremely different, it would take more than 200 years to create an unrecognisable world.

What if... Neanderthals didn't die out as a species, but instead grew to numbers equal to that of humans?
Considering that Neanderthals inhabited a different ecological niche than humans, it would imply that climatic change over the last 40,000 years had been considerably different, making that a hard question to answer. ;)

Accidental double post- ignore.

Considering that Neanderthals inhabited a different ecological niche than humans, it would imply that climatic change over the last 40,000 years had been considerably different, making that a hard question to answer.

Let's just assume the Neanderthals were able to adapt to an environment not too harsh, but similar enough to ours so that we could posibly coexist... or not...

"Mr. Bush, Ugga Ugga Bin Laden wants to talk with you!"

or...

"Genghis Khan meets his barbaric match"

Without the stereotypes, of course.

oh, and good job on 1100th post, traitorfish!

What if I had chosen Salt & Vinegar crisps today, instead of Cheese & Onion! All of history, beggining today, would be totally different. Unrecognisable.

Everything is history, therefore anything can change history. It's all relative.

Besides, the assertion that history would be unrecognisable is somewhat presumptuous- the point is that history could be changed dramatically, not that it will be. Most people really don't matter very much in the grand scheme of things. And even if history was extremely different, it would take more than 200 years to create an unrecognisable world.

That's a very narrow-minded view, IMHO. 1 person counts immensely in the "grand scheme". Do you realize that 1 child walking on the street will totally change who accidentally met who in what day, and that will have huge effects on events from there on? In fact, a person is much more than enough!

It would be "could" change if I said "me walking out of this room will have an effect on the history 10 years from now". That, indeed, is only an assumption. But do you really not realize the huge, uncalculably (sp?) huge impact every single person has? For example, only a few weeks ago, I got to have a concert in Germany in 1 month from now because I met an old friend on the streets, which sparked a (if I may say so) great idea in my mind which caused this to happen, while if ANY of us would have taken a different street, or miss the bus, this would be totally different? This is 1 event of the thousands (literally) that could go different in 1 day of the life of 1 person!

Really, I thought saying "1 person not born would affect history beyond any calculable limits" is stating the obvious!! Even if that person is a poor peasant from central Asia who never went out of his village his whole life.

^agreed, but i think Traitorfish misinterpreted your statements, believing that what you said was that the entire world would be RIDICULOUSLY unrecognizable.
of course it would be unrecognizable, but only to a degree - most likely, Caucasians will still look caucasoid, and China will probably still be alive one way or another (even if it means not as a political entity).

However, if there was a small change in 4000 BC as compared to 1740 AD, then the changes would be quite drastic. A change in the year 1995 probably wouldn't be so drastic as a change in 1800 AD.

^agreed, but i think Traitorfish misinterpreted your statements, believing that what you said was that the entire world would be RIDICULOUSLY unrecognizable.
of course it would be unrecognizable, but only to a degree - most likely, Caucasians will still look caucasoid, and China will probably still be alive one way or another (even if it means not as a political entity).

However, if there was a small change in 4000 BC as compared to 1740 AD, then the changes would be quite drastic. A change in the year 1995 probably wouldn't be so drastic as a change in 1800 AD.

Well, I understand now where the misunderstanding was. Yes, I do believe Caucasians would still look Caucasoid, and China will still be alive, and the Nile would still exist, etc. :)

^then again... Space ALiens could have had a different look on things and blasted us to pieces and mated with our men... :)

^then again... Space ALiens could have had a different look on things and blasted us to pieces and mated with our men... :)

Pink Gay Space Aliens, anyone? :groucho:



:lol: :D

Anyways, back on topic -

What if, in the year 2006, some unlucky guy at the place where they command nuclear weapons of the US accidentally got a little too sleepy, hit a couple of buttons, and a minute or so later, Shanghai, Hangzhou, and Nanjing were completely obliterated?

Not likely, given how complicated the procedure really is.

^this is supposed to be an INSANE what if thread...

Okay . . . what if Socrates had been eaten by sharks?

(Or more realistically, killed in battle in his 40s at, I think, Delia, which almost happened.)

Let's just assume the Neanderthals were able to adapt to an environment not too harsh, but similar enough to ours so that we could posibly coexist... or not...
It's not about harshness (although they were indeed better adapted to such environments than we are), it's about basic physiology. A Neanderthal was a powerful short-distance runner, but had relatively low stamina when compared to homo sapiens. This meant that neanderthals were skilled at the sort of short, fast chase that would occur in the closely-packed forests of Ice Age Eurasia, but were weaker in the thinner forests and plains that began appearing as the Ice Age ended. Homo sapiens- a species which had longer remained in the African plains where humanity evolved- was better suited for this sort of environment, so we out-competed the Neanderthals to extinction.
If they had survived, then they would be little more than primitive tribes on the fringes of the fringes of civilisation, beyond even the smelliest and most backwards barbarian (i.e. the Scots ;)). If they had somehow managed to coexist with us, then they probably would have been absorbed into the human population, as some scientists believe is possible (particularly given new evidence that Neanderthals probably looked more human and less ape-like than was previously believed).



That's a very narrow-minded view, IMHO. 1 person counts immensely in the "grand scheme". Do you realize that 1 child walking on the street will totally change who accidentally met who in what day, and that will have huge effects on events from there on? In fact, a person is much more than enough!
*snip*

What's your point? All I said was that the significance of any particular event is relative, and that's true. There is no measurable "grand scheme" and, even if there was, there's no way of determining the effect of any given event on it, especially when one considers that there's no way of calculating all the evens that lead up to that. All we can safely say is that some events may have some effect on some results at some level, and, frankly, that doesn't sound like anything to get all that excited about.

I think what Mirc is talking about has to do with the "Butterfly Effect".

But never mind that.


What if... a space alien crashed pretty close to Genghis Khan's tent, and Genghis Khan was able to salvage and eat an herb/medicine that exteneded his life by 50 years?

What if... Karl Marx got run over by a horse carriage at age 13?

What if... Karl Marx got run over by a horse carriage at age 13?

The world would have been a MUCH more peaceful place.

What if Mohammed converted to Christianity?

His uncle who raised him WAS a Christian...

What if Hitler won or stalmated with the Allies in WW2?

What if the Britished had won in the American Revolution?

What if Columbus's ships and subsequent navigators never returned back to the Old World?

What if the Roman Empire still exists?

What if Jesus never got cruxified and/or became the King of Israel?

What if Homo neanderthals drove out Homo sapiens into extinction?

What if the meteroite that killed the dinosaur missed the Earth?

What if Earth had never formed into a planet?

What if the Big Bang did not take place?

What if the Britished had won in the American Revolution?
We're actually discussing that in another thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=249349) Some interesting points made.

What if Columbus's ships and subsequent navigators never returned back to the Old World?
Chances are someone else would have tried it a few years later. It was too tempting an idea to ignore for long. Of course, how this later discovery would change things is debatable, but I wouldn't even know how to start figuring that out...

What if Homo neanderthals drove out Homo sapiens into extinction?
Highly unlikely, given that Neandethals had a far more limited environment than Homo sapiens, and therefore would not have been in a position to out-compete most of the human race at the time. Possibly a more highly evolved form of Neanderthal could manage it, but the results of that would depend on the manner of the Neanderthal's evolution.

What if... assuming Atlantis existed in some form or another, survived to the present day?


What if... a harpsichord fell on to of 7-year old JS Bach?


What if... a screw-up in the time vortex transported 100 Greek troops from World War II (including a few tanks and planes, as well as supplies) back to Constantinopole, 1204?


What if... Justinian thuoght Theodora was too "lowly" to be his mate? ;)


What if... Vietnam never existed?

What if pie was never invented!? :run:

What if... a screw-up in the time vortex transported 100 Greek troops from World War II (including a few tanks and planes, as well as supplies) back to Constantinopole, 1204?
Why 1204? To stop the 4th Crusade?


What if... Vietnam never existed?

Abbie Hoffman would have led a much more boring - and quieter - life.

Why 1204? To stop the 4th Crusade?

Exactly. The implications of that would be...

Japan would have still conquered it during WW2 and after they retreated at the end of the war, there would some kind of Europe like "Chinese Union"

Probably more than that. For two thousand years after Shi Huang the ultimate goal of the most ambitious men in China had always been (re)unifying China. If that would not have been possible a la Napoleonic Wars, some of them might have to resort to other places for more living space.

That might very well have been Africa and the Americas.

Exactly. The implications of that would be...

Byzantine power was waning already, even two hundred modernized troops couldn't hold off the Saljuqs forever.

Pink Gay Space Aliens, anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZ1cUEUrV4

What if the greeks had lost the persian wars.

What if the greeks had lost the persian wars.
Then they would have won the peace, by feeding the Persian empire the fruits of Greek ingenuity a couple of centuries earlier than was done after Alexander's rampage. It would be Hellenism come early.

Then they would have won the peace, by feeding the Persian empire the fruits of Greek ingenuity a couple of centuries earlier than was done after Alexander's rampage. It would be Hellenism come early.
Hellenism was successful because Alexander's successes forced it on the Persians. If Persia had conquered Greece, that effect would be minimised, and far outweighed by Persian influence on Greece.
True, conquers often adopt the culture of the conquered- the Mongols in China, the Germanic tribes in Europe- but the Persians had already done that in Mesopotamia. They saw themselves as the heirs to Babylon and Sumeria, they would have seen no need to adopt the culture of a minor province on the fringe of the empire.

What if Al Gore won the '00 election?

What if Britain and France came to the aid of the Confederates?

What if Hitler was run over by a car at age 2?

Hellenism was successful because Alexander's successes forced it on the Persians. If Persia had conquered Greece, that effect would be minimised, and far outweighed by Persian influence on Greece.
True, conquers often adopt the culture of the conquered- the Mongols in China, the Germanic tribes in Europe- but the Persians had already done that in Mesopotamia. They saw themselves as the heirs to Babylon and Sumeria, they would have seen no need to adopt the culture of a minor province on the fringe of the empire.
Good thing the vast majority of the Persian empire wasn't Persian then.:)

What if Hitler was run over by a car at age 2?

That would be cool, considering how many cars there were in 1891.

Good thing the vast majority of the Persian empire wasn't Persian then.:)
Nether the less, Persian culture was certainly the dominant one in their empire, and the likelihood of non-Persians accepting Greek culture over Persian culture- one being that of a distant, minor province, the other being that of the empire's rulers- was unlikely. Not to mention the fact that Persian culture was heavily influenced by Mesopotamian culture, meaning that much of the empire would feel much more cultural similarity to the Persians than to the Greeks.

What if Al Gore won the '00 election?

bush family nukes florida, the supreme court and declares texas a califate.

What if Hitler was run over by a car at age 2?

cart? meh, who are we kidding? we Germans would have found another nutcase... it would have turned out differently, of course, but in the end I am sure that 5 minutes to armageddon would have been staged by some loony.

PS: the question I always ask myself when I walk past Odeonsplatz here in Munich is what would have happened if one of those stray bullets flying around would have hit him straight in the face on his first "march". so basically I ask myself the same question.... still sure that somebody would have picked up the swastika, maybe with less success. that would have been a good thing I guess.... or it would have made things worse 20 years down the line, no way to know.

PPS: more horrible thought: what would have happened if Winston Churchill had died of *insert anything* before 1940? *shudder* I can't help but feel that the consequences would have been more dire.

That would be cool, considering how many cars there were in 1891.

Erm, typo, meant "cart", but forgot the "t"

What if...

Headline, 1927 - Tokyo:

Huge-*** Tsunami Wipes out half of city, Destroys 1/4 of Japanese navy, and kills almost all of the government officials who would later mastermind the Japanese conquests in East Asia.

Nether the less, Persian culture was certainly the dominant one in their empire, and the likelihood of non-Persians accepting Greek culture over Persian culture- one being that of a distant, minor province, the other being that of the empire's rulers- was unlikely. Not to mention the fact that Persian culture was heavily influenced by Mesopotamian culture, meaning that much of the empire would feel much more cultural similarity to the Persians than to the Greeks.
Afaik there was very little actual Persian cultural influence on their subject nations. Persian borrowing and adoption from these was much more in evidence. A bit like both the Romans and the Arabs later. I mean, if the Romans kicked seven kinds of snot out of the Greek and still became heavily greecified, why not the Persians? Unless the point somehow is that the Persians were "alien" to the Greek in ways the Romans weren't? Something I would disagree with.:)

But to be honest, I wasn't 100% serious with the initial post.

I do however find it just as likely that a victorious Persian elite, riding high and feeling good about themselves, would possibly have been even more amenable to borrowing from the Greeks, as they were after being defeated.

So, really, I see no need for a Greek defeat by the Persians would in some serious way dent the success-story of Greek cultural influence around the Med.

Even if somehow the Persians went for all-out repression in the Greek motherland, something they didn't elsewhere, there would still be the "the Great Greece", the rich and powerful colonies in Italy the Romans referred to as "Magna Graeca", quite capable of carrying the torch of Greekness. It might seriously have mucked up the traditional Greek division of status between mother city and colony though, but Hellenism did that as well.

delete post

there would still be the "the Great Greece", the rich and powerful colonies in Italy the Romans referred to as "Magna Graeca", quite capable of carrying the torch of Greekness. It might seriously have mucked up the traditional Greek division of status between mother city and colony though, but Hellenism did that as well.

True, Ionia started out as a series of colonies too.

Afaik there was very little actual Persian cultural influence on their subject nations. Persian borrowing and adoption from these was much more in evidence. A bit like both the Romans and the Arabs later. I mean, if the Romans kicked seven kinds of snot out of the Greek and still became heavily greecified, why not the Persians? Unless the point somehow is that the Persians were "alien" to the Greek in ways the Romans weren't? Something I would disagree with.:)
For the Romans, the Greeks represented civilisation, they're imitation of Greek culture had begun before they ever conquered Greece. Persia, however, had this relationship with Mesopotamia, and so if it captured Greece would have no need for a foreign culture, such as that of the Greeks.

For the Romans, the Greeks represented civilisation, they're imitation of Greek culture had begun before they ever conquered Greece. Persia, however, had this relationship with Mesopotamia, and so if it captured Greece would have no need for a foreign culture, such as that of the Greeks.
For some Romans the Greek represented effete decadence, godlessness and a slew of generally useless traits.

And the Persians found a need for all kinds of things from foreign cultures. Don't see the Greek as different in that regard.

The only real reason I can see why the wouldn't have gone for Greek culture would have been simple geographical distance.

And again, the Persians still only made up a reasonably modest proportion of their empire. Apart from the problem of Persia holding on to a defeated Greek motherland for any significant amount of time, there's really nothing to stop Greek influence in their traditional sphere of influence, which was pretty much all of the Med. There certainly was no great Persian cultural influence to counterbalance them.

But I'll concede that without Alexander the dynamics of Greek influence would change considerably. But generally I don't see how the Persians represented anything like a "mortal" threat to Greekdom, even if they had won that war.

For some Romans the Greek represented effete decadence, godlessness and a slew of generally useless traits.
Later, yes, but in the early days of Rome the Greeks were their greatest cultural influence. Even if they disliked certain elements of Greek culture, others- such as architecture, art, religion and science- the Romans took their inspiration primarily from the Greeks.

And the Persians found a need for all kinds of things from foreign cultures. Don't see the Greek as different in that regard.

The only real reason I can see why the wouldn't have gone for Greek culture would have been simple geographical distance.
A good point, and it's true that Persia may have absorbed some elements of Greek culture. However, they would not have undergone the kind of Hellenisation seen after Alexander's conquests, that is certain.

What if Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo combined?

What if Dick Cheney was really the emperor of Star Wars?

What if everyone had unknown superpowers?

Later, yes, but in the early days of Rome the Greeks were their greatest cultural influence. Even if they disliked certain elements of Greek culture, others- such as architecture, art, religion and science- the Romans took their inspiration primarily from the Greeks.
No, I'm specifically thinking of the relatively early days of the Roman republic. People like Cato the Elder, who pretty much hated anything Greek.

Or the instance when that humungous Grecophile Scipio (yet-to-become-Africanus) while campaigning in Spain made a scandal by receiving a delegation of Senators dressed in his Greek red boots.

I mean, red boots for Iuppiter's sake! No wonder the Senators thought the fall was nigh!:lol:

But seriously, the Greek influence was of the insidious, almost osmotic kind. The Romans just soaked it up through the Etruscans and others. In itself it's a testament to what an automatic process Greek cultural influence had become. It would hardly be broken by the Persians winning the odd war.

As for the more complex products filed by the Greek, like their philosophy, the Romans weren't that receptive. And what the old Romans really found disgusting about the Greek was their outright scepticism of important things like augury. An inflamed spleen in a sacrificial animal to the Greek was an inflamed spleen. To a Roman it was a portent, an omen.

And this carried over into medicine. What self-respecting Roman would have any confidence in a doctor not employing magic to help cure him? All that talk about waters and airs and bodily fluids of the Greek, but not a decent incantation or suggestive charm on the horizon! Sharlatans!

Then again, the eastern half of the empire never became that Roman. Even the administration of it was done in Greek. And the western, Latinate, half of the empire never became more profoundly Greek than that most of the classical philisophy was lost to it as it collapsed. Boethius in his prison cell translating the basics of Aristotle into Latin, in anticipation of his execution, knew that he was engaged in a form of stop-gap measure to try to salvage at least something.

What if everyone had unknown superpowers?

i'de be a much happier person;)

@Verbose: Eh, maybe I just have a skewed view on the subject. I'm an architecture student, y'see, and that is one area in which the Romans borrowed hugely from the Greeks. (Although, of course, the Romans adapted Greeks practices to suit themselves.)

As for the more complex products filed by the Greek, like their philosophy, the Romans weren't that receptive.

They liked Stoicism, though. Just look at Cicero, or even Tertullian. And later, Neoplatonism filtered through: look at Marius Victorinus or indeed Augustine.

Or the great Seneca himself, whose wisdom outshines the brightest lights of the modern age.

Too lazy to see if someone said this already but....

What if the Christians and the Jews switched roles in history?

(Yes, yes, impossible, I know!)

I'm also lazy so.......... ignore post........

what if the august 1991 coup in the USSR was successful?

What if, as in the book 1421, Zhu Di's reign had not ended so early, and if his reign had been in its golden age longer (not just a little less than a year), say 10 or 20 years. Would China have conquered N. America, S. America, or maybe Europe and Africa?

What if Elizabeth I got married and had Kings?
What would be of the Tudor Dynasty
Scotland and England would not have been united!

What if, as in the book 1421, Zhu Di's reign had not ended so early, and if his reign had been in its golden age longer (not just a little less than a year), say 10 or 20 years. Would China have conquered N. America, S. America, or maybe Europe and Africa?

No. sdsadassadasdasdadas

what if the august 1991 coup in the USSR was successful?

by that stage it was too late, things would have got even worse. The Union would have dissolved maybe a year later.

What if, as in the book 1421, Zhu Di's reign had not ended so early, and if his reign had been in its golden age longer (not just a little less than a year), say 10 or 20 years. Would China have conquered N. America, S. America, or maybe Europe and Africa?

No. But, the chances of us speaking English or any Western European language right now would be significantly diminished.

whould humans ever have evolved if dinosars never died out?

What if the beer hall putsch had succeeded?

What if I died?

what if, i know this completely contridicts the war, Japan surrendered in may 1945 and the US nuked say, Leipzig and Bonn

What if Greece and Italy were still Hellenistic?

What if the Jews became Hellenists (there was a point where they could have, but the fundamentalist Jews somehow stopped it)?

What if Iran was still Zoroastrian?

What if Alexander's empire continued beyond him?

What if the Aztecs defeated the Spanish and went back overseas in their boats?

What if the Aztecs defeated the Spanish and went back overseas in their boats?

i rememebr reading somewhere that the aztecs weren't too far from an iron age, and could probably within a hundred years have sailed the atlantic, had they waned too... don't know where though...

What if the Aztecs defeated the Spanish and went back overseas in their boats?

the Spanish would come back, but by then...

1. The Aztecs would've gained some level of immunity to disease, because obviously in this alternative history they survived the first attack.

2. They would've been more smarter, and probably institute different changes to their military and political system to adapt to the threat.

3. They could've even stolen and learned to use a couple of the Spanish weapons, not that it would've helped - they could easily defeat the Spanish with lesser weaponry.

4. Meaning that an Aztec state could've survived in Spain.

5. Meaning that possibly the very future of America couold be different.

6. Meaning that perhaps even thuogh America could've been born, there would've been no Mexican war, which would've meant that the Civil War would have happened sooner because there wouldn't be more new territories to or not to put slaves in, meaning that the entire history of the United States would be quite radically different.

7. Meaning that the Spanish wouldn't have gotten as rich as they could, and European history would've thus been altered. Perhaps a different kind of World Wars?

8. Meaning that possibly East Asian (i.e. Chinese) contact with the "Pre-Columbian" empires could have surely happened, thuogh of course not a huge fleet, meaning... that perhaps the Chinese, because of their "ALL ARE BARBS! LETS SINICIZE THEM!" mentality, would've tried to make the Aztecs more sinicized. meaning...

9. Today, some things would be "Made in Aztecland" and they would contain tons of lead :D or human blood.

quote homer simpson "What if we make a time machine and stop England from being invented!"

What if... assuming the Bible is correct in its present form, Moses never got to the Red Sea and instead the Egyptians caught up with him, caputred him, and took him and the Jews back to Egypt?
This is the premise of Robert Silverberg's book Roma Eterna. Since the Hebrews never got out of Egypt, they never made it to Canaan. Since they never made it there, King David was never born. The Twelve Tribes never existed, and never had their troubles with the Persians, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc. Thus, Jesus was never born, and there was no Christianity to rival and eventually supplant the Roman state religion.

Central European history was completely different. Rome's rivalries with Greece continued (Rome never completely conquered Greece) for many centuries. And when Romans finally got around to finding the New World, they discovered that the Vikings had gotten there first and made contact with the Aztecs.

While I would question some of Silverberg's extrapolations, it's still an interesting read. :)

What if Alexander's empire continued beyond him?
I started writing a fanfic where Alexander did not die young, and continued all across Asia and made it across the Atlantic to the New World. Therefore, the Greeks ended up fighting the North American natives, and when I dropped the characters from the TV show Sliders into the story, it was indeed true that some day they were going to slide into a world where everybody spoke Greek and Quinn/Arturo were completely at home. :p

was alexander going to go back to India? i thought he was going to go west next, like in arabia and carthage

^he made a deal with the Indian king(s), even an alliance maybe. there was no point in going that further than India, for 1. too far. 2. china :p 3. Vietnam :p, so then he'd focus on closer things. he was also planning to invade Arabia before he died. wondered what would've happend to Islam if that happene.d

Arab mythology would've probably had more Hellenistic influence... which would have influenced Islam. Probably not much though...

might not even have made it far into arabia, plenty of hot scorching desert there

^well, he went through half of Central Asia, so who knows. and he went into part of the desert part of egypt.

What if Mehmet 2 conquered Italy too?

What if Elizabeth wasnt successful and the spanish invaded England?

What if Russia invaded Istanbul at 18 th century?

Made in Aztecland... lol xD

What if Iran was still Zoroastrian?

To answer my own question, if Iran remained Zoroastrian, assuming that the Arabs never conquered it, the Timurids might have been Zoroastrian, which means that the Mughals might have been Zoroastrian, which means instead of Islamabad we could be talking about "Mazdabad".

Or maybe the Timurids would've been Tengriist and Buddhist... maybe a Buddhist Iran :D? It would probably result in more Buddhist extremism with Buddhists fighting Muslims. The "Taliban of Buddhism" might not just be a phrase...

What if Elizabeth wasnt successful and the spanish invaded England? "Ruled Britannia by Harry Turtledove" Havent read it but looks like a very good book.

What if Mehmet 2 conquered Italy too?

Rome would be lost to Islam and the Medditerean Shall be contested bewteen Spain and Ottoman. Vienna would had a backdoor and would have fallen. Germany would be taken down.
What if Elizabeth wasnt successful and the spanish invaded England?
A massive revolt would have kicked them out before Phillip can even exceuted Elizabeth
What if Russia invaded Istanbul at 18 th century?
They would have gotten their ass whooped if your talking about 1700-1750. If after that, massive casaulties on both sides, Turkey force to agree in unfair treaty

^^
POLAND! BWAHAHA
/becomesbannedfor9days

What if the Ancient Egyptians survived the Romans, the Muslims, and the Mongols?

Muslims weren't even around at the time of the decline of Ancient Egypt.

Infact it was the Christians who destroyed Egypt. the Christians destroyed the temples, captured all the priests and civilians who still believed in there Polytheistic religion, sold them as slaves to Arabs and Europeans, destroyed everything else, and the people of Egypt continued in there agricultural lives, only with a new religion, Christianity and later Islam.

What if Russia invaded Istanbul at 18 th century?
you said invaded. Not captured. Turkey would've fought of the russians. But if the balkan states, greece and friends were to foresee the fall of the Ottomans, then they might ally with the russians, against ottoman rule, then the balkan wars would've started alot earlier and see many new european states as an outcome of it.

^^Let's say captured,what happens then:D

Same/similar thing would happen. Balkan states will still think of this as a decline of the ottoman empire, then they will revolt.

But more i think about it, This could've stopped WWI and WWII from happening...

^^
If Germany was united, France fx. might become afraid of them and ally themselves with England, then to declare war.

Umm if wwI wasnt happened,there will be no Turkey,Ottoman Empireeee!!

^^ and if WWI did happen, then there would be a turkey/ottoman empire without a Constantinople/Istanbul

I think something similar to the Turkisk War of Indepedence would happen. After all we aint talking about some state in the Balkans, we are talking about the Turkish Capital, where Turks are the majority, where it is their homeland

What if the sino soviet split didnt happen?

what if south america and north america just vanished :crazyeye:

What if the Mongols made it to Egypt?

What if the Mongols made it to Egypt?

They would have found the sand to stuffy and left :mischief:

What if Genghis Khan had died in battle at a young age, before he rose to true prominence?

J

What if Hitler had no voice?

What if the US had kept Cuba as a colony and granted Puerto Rico independence after the Spanish-American War?

What if someone actually responded to one of these proposals? ;)

then all of us could get more post count.