Origional link somehow got hcanged to a different configuration...

That is the computer that (thanks to a few of you and a few people from another forum) I put together.

I want to get dual core and another gig of RAM and I am wondering if I need/should get a new motherboard, possibly with a second x16 PCI-E slot (I think my current one has only 1).

I'd prefer to spend less than $500 CAD.

http://secure.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=2234715&platformid=1000

That is the computer that (thanks to a few of you and a few people from another forum) I put together.

I want to get dual core and another gig of RAM and I am wondering if I need/should get a new motherboard, possibly with a second x16 PCI-E slot (I think my current one has only 1).

I'd prefer to spend less than $500 CAD.

No. Your current motherboard is Socket 939. AthlonX2s come also come in socket 939


Unless your going for SLI you don't need a second PCI-e slot.

Also noticing that you have a DVD-ROM drive and a DVD-RW drives. Which is unneeded, unless you plan to watch a DVD at the same time as your writing to a DVD......

I'm also eyeing you PSU. I would suggest going another 50-100W to it.

And whats with the floppy? Why not get a USB flash drive instead. They have gotten so cheap that buy.com has a 1GB one from kingston for only $10 (and if you sign up with google checkout during the checkout you get $10 off)

I already have been using that computer for almost a year and a half.

The diskette was because I still had some old stuff on diskettes and my school librarie's comptuers were still Win98 at the time and didn't have USB ports.

Anyways, I've had the system since July 2006. And I want Crysis.

I've also been wondering about one of those power surge protectors (or whatever they are I forget)things since the power is knocked out by storms/trees several times a year.

Try the Crysis Demo (http://www.crysisdemo.com/) now - based on the requirements, you won't need an upgrade, unless you insist on high settings. It at least runs on my laptop with a slightly lesser video card - but the intro movies/advertisements took so long I got bored with it and went off to watch films before I even got a weapon.

Surge protectors are a very good idea if you don't want anything to get fried. This does happen occassionally - T.A. Jones had a thread in June about his computer getting fried (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=227439), and my phone line got fried in the summer of '06. Ideally you should have one on your computer, TV, stereo, and any other expensive electronics. Any electronics store will have them.

You might be thinking of Uninterruptable Power Supplies, though (surge protectors are for lightening protection, UPS'es are for lack-of-power protection). I don't know a whole lot about them, but the general idea is they provide enough power for you to save everything before shutting down if the power goes out.

@MarineCorps: Two CD drives is quite useful so you can always leave your Civ disk in one of them and switch whatever else you want in the other. That's what I used my dual-CD drives for!

USB drives really do beat flash drives, especially 2.0 ones. I have a $25, 2 GB Kingston one that works very well. I know what it's like to have to use floppies at school, though - was still doing some of that last year :(.

Yeah I'll be downloading the demo in a couple of days while I'm at work, but I still want to upgrade since I do have an income and no major costs besides gas anytime soon.

I'm wondering though, would it be much more to get quad core now instead of upgrading later or is it not really worth it yet (budget wise)?

You will need a new motherboard to go quadcore as AMD doesn't make them yet. You'd probably blow your budget if you did decide to go quadcore. That said AMD's X2 5600 and x2 6000 processors are beasts and should provide for all you gaming needs in the years to come.
My x2 4200 and Geforce 7950 have kept me gaming on high res for well over a year now and I still have no plans to upgrade.

Dual cores (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1948)
Ram (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=13220BD0333&vpn=OCZ4002048ELDCPE-K&manufacture=OCZ)
UPS (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=13280AC6505&vpn=GS1100B&manufacture=OPTI-UPS)

I'm currently using each of those products, if you have any questions, fire away.

3800+ Toledo: Clocked at 2.8 GHz at under stock voltage.
OCZ PC3200: 4GB clocked at 250 MHz.
UPS: Power went out yesterday, and it worked fine, not really sure how long the uptime is on it, I've never tested, and haven't bothered installing the sofware.

Its just too bad that your motherboard is Socket 939 since those processors are quite rare now, and the AM 2 versions are cheaper I think. If you had a socket AM 2 you couldave bought An X2 5000+ black edition and overclocked it to 3.2 gHz, which would work quite nicely.
This is a rough estimate of what you would want:

http://secure.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=2234715&platformid=1000
Now the processor though, I looked and they dont offer the black edition which is the one you would want. It costs 20$ more, but it allows you to easily overclock it since its multiplier is unlocked. That was you can boost it to 3.1 gHz without even adjusting voltage or using anything but a stock cooler ( although you wanna use something other than the stock one)

http://pc.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=2657335&platformid=1000

The E series C2D's have a severely reduced clock speed and L2 cache. Im not sure it would be all that great, as from the reviews Ive seen its a bit of an underperformer.

E2160 @ 3ghz performs well for its price ($84.99 newegg)

I'd rather stick with AMD than Intel.

Also noticing that you have a DVD-ROM drive and a DVD-RW drives. Which is unneeded, unless you plan to watch a DVD at the same time as your writing to a DVD......It's also useful in that you can copy CDs/DVDs a lot quicker and without needing spare hard disk space.

And to be honest, it's nice to cut down on CD swapping (especially given how many games need the CD in the drive). It's not like drives are expensive these days anyway.

Finally stopped procrastinating, I'm wondering though what is the average cost of quad core and a quadcore supportable motherboard?

Also, where is a good place to looke up these things? I looked at NCIX's list, but they list a LOT of mobos in one list, it's kind of confuzzling.

Finally stopped procrastinating, I'm wondering though what is the average cost of quad core and a quadcore supportable motherboard?

Also, where is a good place to looke up these things? I looked at NCIX's list, but they list a LOT of mobos in one list, it's kind of confuzzling.

Do you want to stay with AMD, or have you changed your mind? I'd say if you're building a an entierly new quadcore rig to go with Intel they've been on the market longer, are faster, and generally cheaper.

Do this: Look up the components on newegg, then if you wish, find them in the list on NCIX. Newegg should have reviews and you can gauge how well recieved the components are.

Do this: Look up the components on newegg, then if you wish, find them in the list on NCIX. Newegg should have reviews and you can gauge how well recieved the components are.

NCIX has reviews as well, and the top listed components in a section are those that sell the most units, which tend to have the most positive reviews. ;)

Indeed. I just noticed that. Thats twice you've corrected me on something Zelig.

Definately need a new mobo, but I still havn't decided on dual core or quad core.

In 2009 I don't want to have to upgrade to 6ghz Quad Cores because 3 ghz dual cores are horribly outdated. Likewise, I don't want to get a 3ghz quad now if in 2009 they're compeltely otudated by 6ghz quads. (as an example to get my point across).

That's kind of where I'm stuck at right now. Feel free Please to convince me either way.

Ask yourself this: Do you need the cores? And based on the last 2 years, do you think in 2 years you will do fine with a Dual Core or a Quad Core?

I don't know, that's why I am asking.

You should figure those out...

For me at least, those are the questions I would ask before I upgrade. For instance, Im a gamer, but I'm fine with medium-low settings in games, as long as I can run them smoothly. So I dont want to blow 2000$ on a system I shant use.

That makes more sense, thanks.

I'm upgrading so I can play Crysis, CoD:4 and other new games at high settings (although I'm not upgrading my graphics card yet).

I think I'lll get Quad Croe, now, the mobo, what would be a good choice for a mobo that supprots quad?

My friend has an AMD 6000+ and a G92 8800 GTS with 4 gigs of RAM. He can run Crysis on the high ( note, not highest, its damn nigh impossible to do that) settings without lagging, even during the final explosions scene. I dont think you will need a quad core for those as of now, but, nonetheless, if you want.

Afaik, both Crysis and CoD4 are multithreaded, but as ive heard Crysis only really uses 2 cores, and the same for CoD4, so Im not sure. If you are gonna get a quad core, go with the mid-high range one, as it will most likely last you the longest. Or wait a bit until the new Penryn's come out (within a month or two).

As for the mobo, Im not sure. I've had a good experience with both Asus and Gigabyte, so those are two brands certainly worth looking into.

I've had a baaad experience with ASUS.

Their lower-end / medium-end motherboards have shitty transistors.. I've lost 2 motherboards when transistors simply blew up..

The support was horrible too

I've had a baaad experience with ASUS.

Their lower-end / medium-end motherboards have shitty transistors.. I've lost 2 motherboards when transistors simply blew up..

The support was horrible too

I've gone with ASUS motherboards always and haven't ever had a problem.

Im assuming that if he's gonna go for quad core, he can afford their 150$ + mobo's, which are all (or most) good.

If you're getting Vista, get a very fast dual-core and more than 2 gigs of RAM. My friend got a brand-new, quad-core box with 2 gigs and it's slow as molasses.

Definately NOT touching Vista, especially since I will still be keeping my hard drive...

I currently have a Dell XPS M1530 with: 3gb RAM/2.2gHz Core2Duo/256mb nVidia GFX. It runs Vista brilliantly, and I can play Bioshock with medium to high settings, as well as Cysis (Demo). Given that Crysis isn't a game I'd usually play, I am happy with the results of it.

Obviously, if you get a quad core, you will further the "life" of your computer by at least 18 months to 24 months. I went with the laptop as it has dual core, and is more than enough for what I use it for, which is mainly light 3D work, design and web design. Works so very quickly.

What were you planning to use it for? Simply gaming?? I found THIS (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/dualcore.html) article useful to find gaming advantages with Dual Core PCs.

I beleive that the dual core processors in that article are out of date.

That article is about a year out of date. If you want current info, look on www.tomshardware.com , as they have quite a bit of info on the latest processors, and etc.

Oh, my bad, i didn't read the date, very sorry...

:(

Some people might find it useful to know that Civ4 uses only one core while performing between-round operations.
So rather get fast single cores than an expensive quad core if you want civ to run faster ;-)

I can run Civ4 just fine already, I can't run crysis just fine yet though.

Some people might find it useful to know that Civ4 uses only one core while performing between-round operations.
So rather get fast single cores than an expensive quad core if you want civ to run faster ;-)

Yeah I am sure though that people just won't want to play Civ :P

Crysis is multithreaded I think, so you would be better off with 4 cores.

I can run Civ4 just fine already, I can't run crysis just fine yet though.

Trying to run Crysis is like trying to run a marathon... uphill... in extreme heat... without shoes... on nails.

Crysis is multithreaded I think, so you would be better off with 4 cores.

Im im not sure i uses more than 2 cores. And the bottleneck in that game is definately your graphics card. Its "interesting" to see a 500€ card cant run it on highest settings with decent fps. Triple SLI might do though i think that is crazy from a heat and energy perspective (> 1KW power adapter anyone?).

What is a Penryn?

Also, I beleive that crysis uses two cores and then you still have the other two cores to run windows and other stuff.

Im im not sure i uses more than 2 cores. And the bottleneck in that game is definately your graphics card. Its "interesting" to see a 500€ card cant run it on highest settings with decent fps. Triple SLI might do though i think that is crazy from a heat and energy perspective (> 1KW power adapter anyone?).

Crysis can be run on High settings just fine with a 6400+ and a 8800 GTS. There's no need to dump money into SLi unless there is money to be dumped.

Crysis can be run on High settings just fine with a 6400+ and a 8800 GTS. There's no need to dump money into SLi unless there is money to be dumped.

I should have added I ran it on Very High settings on DX 10....that really seems to drain a lot of performance :nuke:

edit:

And it's awesomly annoying that it even requires DX10 for destructible objects in multiplayer. :(

111th post :D

Yeah :( I'm rather pissed off that I won't be able to destroy stuff in multiplayer in DX9 (Hey, I'd accept the extranious stuff disapearring after a short time! If i ram my tank into a tree it better fall the hell down!)

Thanks to EA and Microsoft. This game would have been better if Crytek had published it themselves.

So dragging the topic kicking and screaming back on topic;

RAM, what do all those nubmers mean? I tried reading the wiki on it but got rather lost.

What numbers? you mean the CAS? Im not great with those, but generally lower is better, but it doesnt have to go to very very low numbers to be good RAM. For instance, DDR2 @ 800mHz and CAS 4-4-4-12 is perfectly fine.

Im sure someone else could explain it much better though.

Some info from Toms Hardware though (about memory in general):
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/55024-30-memory-please-read-posting
(http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/55024-30-memory-please-read-posting)

Okay, so I'm thinking of these two for my new mobo and processor;

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21494

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=Intel

Also, will my 450 watt power supply be enough?

Okay, so I'm thinking of these two for my new mobo and processor;

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21494

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=Intel

Also, will my 450 watt power supply be enough?

I'd recommend ordering from directcanada.com, same company as ncix, but cheaper prices, and free shipping.

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12200BD3212&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=INTEL
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10530BD1002&vpn=90-MBB5I0-G0AAY00T&manufacture=ASUS

What model is your power supply? And what video card are you planning on using?

If it's a high-end power supply, it has a good chance of working, but at 450 watts, I could easily see problems happening.

ncix won't charge you PST if you live outside of BC. Will directcanada?

ncix won't charge you PST if you live outside of BC. Will directcanada?

Nope, they're pretty much identical, they ship from the same warehouses and everything.

I use DC most of the time. NCIX I use if the weekly deals are particularly good, or if I need to pricematch to somewhere else.

I have a 7900GT which I will be using (not buying a new card just yet). I don't remember what my power supply is, I'll look for the order-sheet thing when i can in a couple of days.

Okay, so, this is what I have so far;

Processsor (on sale at NCIX)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1006

RAM (on sale at NCIX with a manufactures rebate);
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18580&promoid=1006

Mobo:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21494

At NCIX (not counting rebate);
+$269.99
+$91.99
$228.00

= $589.98
($549.98 with rebate for RAM)


Questions:

Should I buy an extra heatsink or fan?
Has anyone used Direct Canada before? It has similar/slightly cheaper prices and free shipping for orders over $300 and under 100lbs.

Direct Canada;
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10530BD1002&vpn=90-MBB5I0-G0AAY00T&manufacture=ASUS
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12200BD3212&vpn=BX80562Q6600&manufacture=INTEL
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11180BD9722&vpn=TWIN2X2048-6400C4&manufacture=CORSAIR

$221.40
$269.88
$94.70 <-- no rebate listed on RAM for direct canada
=$585.98

Notes:
I am willing to buy different RAM.

You should most definitely buy another heatsink/fan as the stock ones are pretty crappy.

Should I buy an extra heatsink or fan?
Has anyone used Direct Canada before? It has similar/slightly cheaper prices and free shipping for orders over $300 and under 100lbs.

If you're not overclocking, I wouldn't bother with an extra heatsink or fan (unless you're looking for a quieter solution), Intel knows what they're doing.

I've used directcanada (as you may have guessed from my posts). Looks like you'll get a better deal from ncix for those parts though, so go ahead and order from there. You can pricematch the motherboard by viewing your shopping cart, and putting in the URL/price at directcanada, to save a few more dollars.

Oops had the prices at NCIX lsited out of order. The mobo is several $s cheaper at DC.

EDIT: NVM, misread your pricematch thing. Thanks!

Wouldn't it be a better idea to wait a month or two until Q9300/Q9450 comes out?

Wouldn't it be a better idea to wait a month or two until Q9300/Q9450 comes out?

The Q6700 is over $600 and the next ones up (X and QX) are over $1,000. I'm not paying that much.

From Wikipedia
Q9300: $266
Q9450: $316

The Q6700 is over $600 and the next ones up (X and QX) are over $1,000. I'm not paying that much.

I think you're confusing the Q and QX series PrinceScamp. The Q series is the cheaper quad core alternative to the QX series.

From Wikipedia
Q9300: $266
Q9450: $316

These aren't listed on NCIX or DicrectCanada.

How is thermal paste for cooling?

well, for one, its needed. Although if you do lapping on your processor and heatsink, you should be able to reduce how much you need.

lapping? What is that? (I know nothing about overclocking)

lapping? What is that? (I know nothing about overclocking)

Lapping isnt necessarily for overclocking, but just general temperature reductions.

What happens is that a processors surface isnt flat, its a bit curved. Most heatsinks are designed to accomodate for that, but its not perfect. lapping is basically sanding down both surfaces to be as flat as possible using their own weight and very high grit sandpaper. Some people have said it can reduce temps as much as 10C, but at the very least it will make the transfer of heat much more efficient


I should note that you should not attempt it if you are not comfortable with messing with your hardware. Doing it on a processor voids the warranty, as well as has the potential to screw it up..

I think I'll pass and just use thermal paste and a heatsink/fan. Speaking of heat/sink fan, what is a good price range and brands?

Zalman is a good company. Most good heatsinks/fans are from 20-60$. You just have to read some reviews and decide which one would work best for you.

What size of fans should I look at?

90mm or so should be fine. Look at quality rather than quantity..

What size of fans should I look at?

Biggest one that fits.

Bigger fans means slower spinning for equal air, and slower spinning means less noise.

I'm thinking I might will go with DirectCanada, free shipping, the thermal paste is $6 cheaper, and the fan is $8 cheaper. As well the price matching for stuff on NCIX only showed something for the paste amd fan since the price is more than 20% different.

But anyways that's not what I'm asking you, this is, I think I'll get this fan for my processor;
http://www.ncix.com/products/productdetail2.php?noheader=1&sku=17225
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10450AC4602&vpn=FREEZER-7-PRO&manufacture=ARCTIC%20COOLING

====

Now, I mise as well get that UPS/Power protection while I'm at this.

I want something that will give me time to safely shut down my computer when the power goes out and protects it from power surges. I wonder if I had a 550 watt power supply in my tower and a 450 watt UPS, it wouldn't affect my power supply would it?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?minorcatid=1036
http://www.directcanada.com/category/?minorcatid=1006

II want something that will give me time to safely shut down my computer when the power goes out and protects it from power surges. I wonder if I had a 550 watt power supply in my tower and a 450 watt UPS, it wouldn't affect my power supply would it?

That might be cutting pretty close, depending on the computer. Computer PSUs are approximately 80% efficient, so with a 450 watt UPS, you'd only be able to run your computer up to about 360 watts.

edit: Or rather, the UPS would only work up to 360 watts of load, the computer would still work up to 550 watts as long as you haven't actually lost power.

Eh I can get the UPS later when I get a new graphics card, I found my sheet and I have a
OCZ OZC45012U-450W Modstream Power Supplie PCI-E Readr W/ Ezmod Cable System & Blue LED fan.

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Okay, so according to that calulator, I would need just over 500 watts when I add the new stuff, another 30 when I add a 8800GT.

Would a 620 watt power supply be enough then? Since they don't usualy go to their full potential or something like that.

EDIT: I think this one will work just fine, as well the Q6600 is listed as a common product bought with this one.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18185&vpn=OCZ700GXSSLI&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology

Would a 620 watt power supply be enough then? Since they don't usualy go to their full potential or something like that.

Yes, as long as it's a quality model.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26414&vpn=CMPSU-650TX&manufacture=CORSAIR&promoid=1006
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=19648&vpn=SST-ST65ZF&manufacture=Silverstone%20Technology

Those are both good, the Corsair has a great reputation, and a fair price, and the Zeus is tops in build quality.

Lots of options for power supplies, if you're looking at something else, either check some reviews on it, or post back here.

Although I'm not going to guarantee it, I'd wager that the modstream would power the processor, it's in games with the video cards that it might have problems.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18185&vpn=OCZ700GXSSLI&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology

1. Will the PS I linked to abovwork for me?

2. Would this 650 WATT one work as well?
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26414&vpn=CMPSU-650TX&manufacture=CORSAIR&promoid=1006

Yes, they're both fine.

Of the two, I'd probably go with the Corsair, which I linked in my last post.

Mkay, yeah I think I'll go with the 650 watt, one last question;

Since the intel quads are really two dual cores stuck together, do I need more than one fan? Or are they all covered by one fan?

(This one designed for LGA775)
http://www.ncix.com/products/productdetail2.php?noheader=1&sku=17225

Just 1 fan/heatsink.

The "two dual cores" is just a technicality, it's not going to make a difference to the end user.

Done, I've ordered what I want (sale ends today and I have to go to work soon). Thanks for the help!

Now I need to read up on how to install these.

Most things only have 1 spot where they can go generally. It (hypothetically) shouldn't be too hard to figure out what fits where.

I'm more worried about BIOs and other software stuff rather than actual physical assembly. The manuals are supposed to be pretty good.

what ram did you get?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18580&promoid=1006

Our Price: $91.99 CAD
Savings Code 18580-1006. SAVE $13.00 off our regular price of $104.99 if you buy today! Special price ends 1/29/2008.
After Mail In Rebate: $51.99 CAD
Save $40.00 with manufacturer's mail-in rebate!
Valid from Jan 15, 2008 to Jan 31, 2008

(Just in case they've updated the page since it's the 30th)

Make sure you run that at 2.1V, your BIOS might (will?) default to 1.9V

Make sure you run that at 2.1V, your BIOS might (will?) default to 1.9V

English please? (I mean, how do I do that? How do i tell?)

edit: nevermind

English please? (I mean, how do I do that? How do i tell?)

In your BIOS somewhere in the section dealing with memory it should have an option to change the voltage. YOu should look where exactly in the manual though. Anyways, you need to change the voltage to 2.1 V as 1.9 is too low for that memory, but it still defaults to it.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/success.png

Okay, I changed the voltage in the bios, though I saved and exited withotu realising it would bring me to Windows. Meh, i didn't understand anything else in there anyways and the manual didn't say anything needed to be changed.

I still need to update the bios though, which I'll do tomorrow, as well figure otu why it isn't recognising my DVD writer. But other than that it works great! Thanks!