I'm trying an 'always peace' game (I don't doubt that I'm not the first, but I've not seen them discussed here before). I've not got far yet (I play very slowly), but it seems quite interesting. I picked leaders because it wouldn't really be fair to play such a game against, say, Tokugawa or Churchill. Likewise, I didn't want to get stuck with someone like that myself, so I also picked my own leader. I chose Joao, since I wanted to play on a Terra map. I've done well at expansion, but it's occurred to me that seeking out the New World early will likely be a dead loss, since it'll be full of barbarians and I haven't really focussed on my military, for obvious reasons. Mind you, maybe it'll be easy to build a small army for the sole purpose of gaining a foothold there, since I won't have to worry about invasions back home.

I'm doing quite well, by my standards (after finishing my first session, I thought about how high my science rate was and convinced myself I'd accidently selected Settler instead of Noble), but I probably could have chosen a better leader. Pacal is doing extremely well, and Suryavarman always gets a huge empire even when he's building a massive army, so I dread to think what he'll achieve in this game. Zara Yaqob's Stele scares me; I'm glad he's far away. Huayna Capac, as usual, has traits and a UB that make me tremble - maybe I should have picked him. Louis might have been pretty cool, too. Likewise Ramesses. Finally, Gandhi, Willem and Elizabeth would have been good choices.

Anyway, it's a very different kind of game from the usual one. I guess culture is king, since you can't take any cities by force. I'm desperately hoping I can build the Sistene Chapel. Espionage would probably also be a good idea, but it's not really my style. I guess it'll also be fun when privateers turn up. Land is very scarce - I'm playing a large map, but there are 18 civs. I've only enabled Space Race and Time victory - I'm getting sick of cultural and diplomatic wins, and they'd be a bit cheesey with no risk of invasion. Here's my assessment of the various traits...

Creative - You need to grab as much land as possible, ASAP, and even in the longer term, the more culture you have, the better. This might be the best trait.

Industrious - Wonders will probably be VERY helpful in a game like this.

Financial - Always a fantastic trait. You could spend the extra commerce on culture, or get ahead in tech and build some wonders.

Expansive - Getting your empire up and running quickly is important.

Philosophical - For Great Artists. I detest this trait, but no doubt those who know how to use it can do something clever with it and launch a spaceship in 1000AD or whatever.

Spiritual - Cheap temples means lots of cathdrals, hence lots of culture. It's also a lovely trait in its own right.

Organised - Yuck. Normally a fine trait, but it doesn't shine here. It won't help your culture much, and you're not likely to have enough cities for it to be truly worthwhile. Better than the warmonger traits, but not as good as the rest.

Imperialistic - A warmonger trait, but at least you get cheap settlers so you can grab plenty of quality city sites before the culture wars begin.

Charismatic - You can't get more than 10xp in this game, and the promotions won't be very useful anyway, but at least there's a small happiness bonus.

Aggressive - Combat 1 might help a little bit vs barbarians. Cheap barracks are almost worthless - you could get 2 happiness out of them if you use Nationhood, but that's a lousy civic choice this game. The exception is Shaka - cheap Ikhanda's aren't bad (but not especially good - see Organised).

Protective - The worst trait by far. No-one's going to attack you, and city defender promotions for archers aren't going to be that useful against barbs, except perhaps in the very early game (drill 1 is only marginally better). Walls and castles are basically worthless (the nice stuff from castles goes obsolete almost immediately).

The AI is doing reasonably well. I don't think they're building proper armies (sensible), although they have all researched Archery (mildly foolish). I'll trade for it when it's time to head to the New World. Anyway, the question is, which leader would you pick?

Tokugawa.

Yuk, yuk, yuk

Have you read Sulla's passive aggressive Hatty (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/pahatty_1.html)?

Yep, read it a long while ago; one of the few serious game sagas I have read. I'm not a very competitive (or competent) player; I don't really worry too much about reading up on the grandmasters. Glancing back at the intro to that walkthrough, I notice Sulla says it's important to settle every little nook and cranny you can find. To be frank, I can't be bothered. :blush: I've grabbed as much land as possible in the general vicinity of my capital, but I just couldn't face sending settlers out past the borders of the Khmer empire (the next empire beyond my German neighbours). I know I should have done it, but somehow I couldn't be bothered. I don't intend to ever play anything beyond Noble, so I can get away with stuff like that. :lol:

The AI is doing reasonably well. I don't think they're building proper armies (sensible), although they have all researched Archery (mildly foolish). I'll trade for it when it's time to head to the New World. Anyway, the question is, which leader would you pick?

magicalsushi,

Not every single aspect of a leader needs to be useful. If the leader has a great unique building, and 1 of the 2 traits are wonderful, then that might be better than both traits and the unique building being merely useful.

With that said, I'd pick Montezuma.

I'm serious! For 3 reasons,

1) He is Spiritual. Lets say you're about to start off to the new world. Well, your ships are military units. If you've built the pyramids, you can pop over to Police State and build ships that much quicker, with no turns of anarchy! Once you've assembled your fleet, pop back to whatever your favourite government civic is, and be on your merry way. Not to mention Spiritual means you start off with Mysticism. Because getting the religions you didn't found in this game will be difficult, starting off with one will be very useful and profitable.

2) The Jaguar starts with woodsman 1. A barracks makes this useful, because it will provide you with enough to promote the unit to woodsman 2, which gives the unit 2 movement spaces on forests. At times, it feels like you have a 5 strength scout that can attack! Although, without the goodie hut bonus. But by the time you get to the new world, you probably won't need goodie huts, but rather to simply survive. +40% defense in forests with two movement points is a lot of survival.

3) Most importantly, his unique building is a Sacrificial Altar (replaces Courthouse). In a peaceful game, a Courthouse is something you're going to build in almost every city anyways. So you might as well make the best of it, and keep whipping people like there's no tomorrow!

Regardless of whomever you pick, magicalsushi, I hope it's a fun game. I know I like a peaceful game, but I never thought about always peace. Now you have me thinking. ;)

Roosevelt. :D

Egyptian Ramesses II, he is the guy.

very interesting thread ... I think I'll try my chances with pericles in a passive/aggressive type pangea game. cre/phi is bound to pop some artists from those odeons ! I'll also increase the difficulty to monarch, to spice things up a bit. but the slow start makes me think, hmm ...

I've never played on Always Peace, but I would imagine Louis would be strong.

I'd pick someone who is good for extremely rapid expansion. Probably Joao II who is expansive and imperialistic. Then build only workers and settlers and claim all the land. It will cripple your economy, but the AIs can't punish you for your weakness so it doesn't matter. Eventually you'll recover, your cities will develop and with double the land anyone else has, your victory is certain. A cheesy way to win, to be sure.

For even more cheesyness I'd disable barbarians. That way you will only need one warrior per city. In the beginning not even that.

Gandhi or Asoka, they have teh only UU thats not warish and they have this frilly' jail...

Not every single aspect of a leader needs to be useful. If the leader has a great unique building, and 1 of the 2 traits are wonderful, then that might be better than both traits and the unique building being merely useful.


Yeah, I did briefly consider using Montezuma or Ragnar; unlike, say Genghis Kahn, they wouldn't be completely ridiculous choices. I quite like using Monty in normal games - Spiritual rocks, and I can't get enough of those awesome sacrificial altars. However, I do think it'd be easier to use someone who has a decent UB *and* decent traits - Huayna Capac, Mansa Musa, Louis, etc. Bashing barbs on a terra map with Aggressive is a reasonable strategy, but I would have thought that Financial or something would have a better effect on the game overall. I'd love to be Industrious because I'm *really* paranoid about missing out on the Sistene Chapel. Perhaps I shouldn't have overlooked Qin - Protective is dire, but I'd love to be able to build pagodas.

Yeah, I did briefly consider using Montezuma or Ragnar; unlike, say Genghis Kahn, they wouldn't be completely ridiculous choices. I quite like using Monty in normal games - Spiritual rocks, and I can't get enough of those awesome sacrificial altars. However, I do think it'd be easier to use someone who has a decent UB *and* decent traits - Huayna Capac, Mansa Musa, Louis, etc. Bashing barbs on a terra map with Aggressive is a reasonable strategy, but I would have thought that Financial or something would have a better effect on the game overall. I'd love to be Industrious because I'm *really* paranoid about missing out on the Sistene Chapel. Perhaps I shouldn't have overlooked Qin - Protective is dire, but I'd love to be able to build pagodas.

magicalsushi,

I thought of two more leaders that would be nice for this type of game; Isabella of Spain and Darius I of Persia.

Isabella has Spiritual + Fishing. If you start off next to a coastal clam or fish, you will start the game with tons of research, and can possible grab every religion for yourself. This will put a hamper on your initial spread, but given that the only way to capture cities will be via trading (and that never happens outside of war) and culture flipping, you should be set with culture. I once did this in a Monarch game. There were only 4 civs, and I pushed for every religion as fast as possible...and got all of them before I even expanded once! It was crazy, I had a Holy^7 City. Though a lot of luck was required.

Another person you should look at is Darius I of Persian. With Financial (+1coins on plots wit 2 coins) and -50% upkeep. With early Pyramids for Universal Suffrage, a moderate tax rate, and Slavery, you should be able to buy and/or whip out an empire and spread to the new world very fast. Also his unique building is the Apothecary (+2 health on a grocer, +1 more if you have Banana, Spices, Sugar, or Wine) is not to be gawked at in a always peace game, give that you won't be able to simply charge in and take over resources that you need, the more passive +happiness and +health you have, the better off you will be in the long run.

I guess it all depends on how you want to play. Are you going for a massive REX or are you going for a cultural push to grab land? Either one seems like it will work, so long as you have a plan from the time you pick your own leader and stick to it the entire game.

Good luck, magicalsushi! And let us know how the game goes.

I thought briefly about Isabella before starting, but the Citadel put me off. You're right though, she wouldn't be a bad choice. Like you, I've once had all seven religions when playing as her; it was a very easy cultural victory (I also had stone and marble! No metals or horses though...). I'd more or less forgotten about the significance of holy cities when I started this game. I managed to grab Confucianism, but it ended up in a city which wasn't under much of a cultural threat. :(

Darius always sounds overpowered to me; I've not played him yet. I don't like the sound of Organised in a game like this though - there's a limit to how many cities you can grab without fighting for them, and without the Creative trait, I'm not convinced Darius would have much luck flipping any later. IIRC, he doesn't start with Mysticism, either.

Strongly recommend Louis XIV, hands down one of the best for peace. Lots of cheap buildings, quick wonders, and cities that grow and grow. If you don't want to fight for land, you need to get as much as you can as quickly as possible and make each city a powerhouse, ideally you want at least six cities that are pretty great so come Spaceship time you can keep up. The wonders give all kinds of good bonuses.

If you want a cultural win, use Louis XIV and make sure you build as many wonders as possible, but most important, find seafood and rice and found Sid's Sushi Co. Spread it to your neighbors for coin, but put it in your cities going for legendary culture. Great way to win without fighting, did it before and it is actually a ton of fun.
Of course, being realistic, you'll have to fight sooner or later if Shaka/Monty/Gilgamesh are on the board. Peace doesn't deter them.

Yep, read it a long while ago; one of the few serious game sagas I have read. I'm not a very competitive (or competent) player; I don't really worry too much about reading up on the grandmasters. Glancing back at the intro to that walkthrough, I notice Sulla says it's important to settle every little nook and cranny you can find. To be frank, I can't be bothered. :blush:

Just to be clear, my game was intended to try and achieve Domination, so it played out with that end in mind. You certainly don't have to settle nearly that aggressively if aiming for Space, Culture, or Diplomatic victories. Have fun and good luck! :)

Yeah, the settings I'm using are less challenging, or so I hope, anyway. I'd like to have a go at always peace domination though. Your game looked like good fun!

Just finished an "Always Peace" game on Warlord level , continents with no barbarians, as Julius Caesar, just to try it. Spammed cities, only 2 archers
per city. Beelined to culture/religions. By the end, got every wonder except
four, AP and United Nations. Hoped for culture or domination win but
couldn't get three cities to legendary fast enough and missed out on diplomatic by six votes. Went for Space victory instead and got that by
1959. Points at the end were over 13,500. Isn't this just too easy?
Ignoring military, with permanent closed borders means you develop your
squares and build every building, while having lots of money.
My verdict on "Permanent Peace" with closed borders. Don't bother!
It would be just as exciting as Sim City.

Louis XIV. The culture from creative, cheap buildings and wonders are greatly leveraged in an always peace game. Imperialistic is nice as well, for getting settlers out that little bit quicker.