Yay! A thread for discussing what we could discuss in the 2007 season thread, except the 2007 season is over.

Cameron positive for stimulants (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3088062&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

I'll still like him anyway though. No particular reason, just like him.

nothing surprises me any more really w/ all of the players getting nailed.

re: the new thread
heh, already, huh? :p i guess you're over the collapse? :p

Looks like we will probably miss out on Lowell and get Schilling :sad: ... I really
wish it would be the other way around.


Hey El J, Are you tending to your Hockey team properly or have you been too busy? :confused:

what makes you say that about those 2 dg?

i lost track of the hockey league to be honest...it's a combo of the daily moves (big pain in the ass imo) and lethargy :) sooner or later i'll get to it but those daily moves are irritating.

I think Schilling wants to come back... just think of the homers he will give up :eek: and I can't imagine Boston letting the WS MVP slip away, the fans
will probably freak out.

You need to at least fix your roster once... most of your players are on the
bench and not in your lineup. You don't have to make daily moves.

yes, i remember some of the moonshots he gave up in the cavernous Vet. personally, i'd like to see him come back even though the HR threat looms like that...we shall see i guess :)

i had to set my lineup each day dude :confused: granted i could set it for the week but that is 7x the work :p if i'd known ahead of time that the league would be daily moves like that then i'd have never signed up :sad: it's just too much imo...

Naw, just set it on Sun night and your line-up will stay the same all week, even if they are not playing. Right now most of your players are on the bench and not even in the line-up. Are we both confused :confused: ? I
don't know what you mean about 7x the work???

Better move this to the fantasy hockey thread from here on though, don't
want to clutter this one up :crazyeye: .

Joel Zumaya is already out half ot the 2008 season. :(

Joel Zumaya is already out half ot the 2008 season. :(

The description of what happened seems very strange... a box falling on his
shoulder and dislocating it :confused: . Wonder what really happened? :scan:

The Nationals need to sign Torii Hunter to give us someone somewhat resembling a star player. We need Pitching, and it's kind of sad no one wants to pitch for us, we've got a pitcher's ballpark.

yea Al. that place was a cavern. what are the dimensions for the new ballpark i wonder? i hope for your sake that it's not the little bandbox like the one they built in philly. what a disgrace...all shiny and new and all but i could hit one out of there right-handed :p of course, i'm a southpaw!

Any chance for the Red Sox to repeat? :p

I'm curious to see: whether the Red Sox will resign Mike Lowell, what will happen to Coco Crisp/Julio Lugo, who both had sub-par years, and where Curt Schilling will end up along with the new Red Sox rotation.

yea Al. that place was a cavern. what are the dimensions for the new ballpark i wonder? i hope for your sake that it's not the little bandbox like the one they built in philly. what a disgrace...all shiny and new and all but i could hit one out of there right-handed :p of course, i'm a southpaw!

Here's the dimensions:
Left Field 336 ft
Left Center 377 ft
Center Field 403 ft
Right Center 370 ft
Right Field 335 ft

Just slightly smaller than RFK, but the seats are designed semi-like Philly's stadium. The wind should be blowing across the field too from first to third. The big problem with the stadium is parking, I don't think a lot is built, and it's surrounded by South Capital Street (freeway at that point), a bad neighborhood that you don't want to park your car in, and M Street, which won't be able to hold more than 500 cars within walking radius of the stadium. That, of course leaves Metro as the best option, but Navy Yard is a small station and unless it gets built up, it won't be able to hold the influx of fans. Getting in and out of Nationals Park will be hell, but I guess they think we're used to it because of FedEx Field.

Joe Torre back in the NL...good luck with that, Joe. The Dodgers a bit of a mess.

Of course, I'm just bitter that Houston could not even try to bid for him. Cecil better be a godsend :rolleyes:

The Nationals need to sign Torii Hunter to give us someone somewhat resembling a star player. We need Pitching, and it's kind of sad no one wants to pitch for us, we've got a pitcher's ballpark.

I agree. There are a few good CFs on the market right now, (Andrew Jones, Hunter, Mike Cameron, Aaron Rowand), and any of them would be a pretty big upgrade for the Nats. They should have some money to spend, I hope they get one of them.

Any chance for the Red Sox to repeat? :p

I'm curious to see: whether the Red Sox will resign Mike Lowell, what will happen to Coco Crisp/Julio Lugo, who both had sub-par years, and where Curt Schilling will end up along with the new Red Sox rotation.

I'll be really surprised if the Sox don't re-up Lowell...and I think they'll get Shilling too (maybe ditch Wakefield). Crisp is gone.


Just slightly smaller than RFK, but the seats are designed semi-like Philly's stadium. The wind should be blowing across the field too from first to third. The big problem with the stadium is parking, I don't think a lot is built, and it's surrounded by South Capital Street (freeway at that point), a bad neighborhood that you don't want to park your car in, and M Street, which won't be able to hold more than 500 cars within walking radius of the stadium. That, of course leaves Metro as the best option, but Navy Yard is a small station and unless it gets built up, it won't be able to hold the influx of fans. Getting in and out of Nationals Park will be hell, but I guess they think we're used to it because of FedEx Field.

Yeah, I've wondered about that too. The best option seems to build up the metro stop, but they really would want to start that now, since its going to have to more than double.

Crisp is definitely out, since they'll want to make room for Ellsbury next year, but there's no easy way to get rid of Lugo, and there aren't many shortstops out there (are there?).

Anyone know if Piazza can still catch? The Mets need a catcher and Piazza splitting time with whatever no-so-hot-prospect they've got would be awesome. Too bad Flores got Rule-5'ed by the Nats. :(

Glavine doesn't look like he'll be coming back to the Mets, so it's an iffy Pedro, aces Maine and Perez, Pelfrey (finally a breakout?), and since I haven't heard anything about a possible free agent SP, a fight for the fifth spot, probably Humber.

I agree. There are a few good CFs on the market right now, (Andrew Jones, Hunter, Mike Cameron, Aaron Rowand), and any of them would be a pretty big upgrade for the Nats. They should have some money to spend, I hope they get one of them.

The Washington Post has reported that represenatives of the Nationals have talked with people of Hunter and Rowand.


Yeah, I've wondered about that too. The best option seems to build up the metro stop, but they really would want to start that now, since its going to have to more than double.

Knowing Metro, they should've started that 1 year ago.

The cubbies need a center fielder.

Hey El J,

We got B.Lidge to close now, back to the pen for Myers... me likey :cool: .

Gave up M.Bourne and Geary, but I think it is a fine deal for the Phillies.

Now to sure up 3B and CF/OF and they are good to go.

***also check your PMs ;) .

Here's the dimensions:
Left Field 336 ft
Left Center 377 ft
Center Field 403 ft
Right Center 370 ft
Right Field 335 ft

Just slightly smaller than RFK, but the seats are designed semi-like Philly's stadium. The wind should be blowing across the field too from first to third. The big problem with the stadium is parking, I don't think a lot is built, and it's surrounded by South Capital Street (freeway at that point), a bad neighborhood that you don't want to park your car in, and M Street, which won't be able to hold more than 500 cars within walking radius of the stadium. That, of course leaves Metro as the best option, but Navy Yard is a small station and unless it gets built up, it won't be able to hold the influx of fans. Getting in and out of Nationals Park will be hell, but I guess they think we're used to it because of FedEx Field.
very nice :goodjob: you guys deserve an new and shiny ballpark, too :D and no surprises on the parking headaches - you guys deserve them, too :p

dg,
got the message and thanks :D even better is the trade :thumbsup: in the short terms at least. bourne was the fastest phillie i've seen since juan samuel and jeff stone :eek: he can flat out run. geary is a waste of human flesh imo and i'm glad to see him go. he is one of the reasons for my seasonal gastro-intestinal reflux disorder that i suffer from every summer :p the only part i don't like is costanzo. few know of him but he was a 1st rd pick a few years ago and a local guy. i was even half-thinking that he might have gotten a shot at the 3B job in spring training. that's a moot point now.

but i guess getting lidge is almost like getting a good no.1 starter since myers will be back in the rotation. so i like that part...and it shores up the back end of the BP some more. now we need to get romero signed and we;ll be back in business.

btw - i read in yeterday's Daily News that rag-arm SP A Eaton may need his shoulder scoped and he could miss a large part of the '08 season...not that we'll necessarily miss him though :D

I'm practically begging for the Tigers to go after a couple relievers now that Zumaya may be out the entire year again (yes, he did get injured moving stuff as he was evacuating because of the SoCal fires :( ). We need a middle guy and a new closer, Jones sucks. We have the starters, we have the lineup, and we have a massive backup of pitching products. We need to make a couple of moves and then we'll be set for another run at the playoffs.

bourne was the fastest phillie i've seen since juan samuel and jeff stone. he can flat out run. geary is a waste of human flesh imo and i'm glad to see him go. he is one of the reasons for my seasonal gastro-intestinal reflux disorder that i suffer from every summer :p the only part i don't like is costanzo. few know of him but he was a 1st rd pick a few years ago and a local guy. i was even half-thinking that he might have gotten a shot at the 3B job in spring training. that's a moot point now.

but i guess getting lidge is almost like getting a good no.1 starter since myers will be back in the rotation. so i like that part...and it shores up the back end of the BP some more. now we need to get romero signed and we;ll be back in business.

Nice to hear the Phillie perspective. But heads up - There are alot of people down here who've wanted to get rid of Lidge for some time now. He hasn't been right since Pujols lit him up back in 2005. He's blown more saves than alot of other guys in the league. Maybe he'll turn it around over there. Good luck.

The Tamba Bay Devil Rays changed their logo and uniforms in an effort to be relevant:

The Logo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Drayslogo.PNG

The Cap:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Drayscap.PNG

Uniforms:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Draysunis.PNG

Yawn....

Henry V,

yeah, Lidge has his baggage but he definitely strengthens the back end of the philly BP. and as they, sometimes a change of scenery can do some good.

costanzo was a 2nd rd pick btw :) nice power no's in the low minors but i read he's struggling in the AFL w/ off speed stuff.

geary was effective for about a 4 month stretch in '06 but not so much after that. perhaps a change would benefit him, too.

Tampa now LOOKS like a minor league baseball team instead of just playing like one. Maybe I'm harsh, but I preferred the green...at least that was original.

The blue scheme reminds me of the Dodgers, and the Devil Rays are no Dodgers.

I way preferred the green as well... actually, I liked the green a lot. Made them look like they were skilled players who just caught bad breaks. Now it'll make them look like skilled players who can't do anything right.

Hey, this is somewhat remarkable...

Magic bat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pWuuo9OC3Y)

Apols if it's been posted in one of the other baseball threads already...

Edit: after watching a second time, I reckon it's a fake....

Very good :goodjob: , thanks for posting that Lambert.

heh - that is indeed pretty remarkable :D

addit: how so Lambert? i mean, it being a fake?

Because it's on YouTube ? I guess I'm just being too suspicious. I was rather hoping that one of you guys might remember it and confirm whether it was real or not.

i don't recall it but i've seen some real funky stuff happen before. so i wouldn't be surpised if it is authentic. one dude to ask would probably be Tomoyo as he's a NY Mess fan :p so he might have actually seen it :)

Yep, I saw it live. No fake. :)

Ugh, Zumaya said the other day that his "career may be done."

Tigers need to pull the trigger. Get someone now while you know you're one of the best teams.

WAHOO!!! CC Sabathia won the Cy Young!!! And finally beat Josh Beckett:p

Yep, I saw it live. No fake. :)

Ah, thanks Tomoyo - good to know.

What was the reaction like in the stadium at the time ?

I don't remember the reaction in the stadium, really. :( I'm not sure many people noticed.

BARRY BONDS HAS BEEN INDICTED.

I think I'm ready to call guilty.

Was posted on another forum:

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071115&content_id=2301195&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

11/15/2007 10:22 PM ET
A-Rod, Yankees agree to basic deal
Contract worth $275 million for 10 years would have incentives
By Bryan Hoch / MLB.com

NEW YORK -- Alex Rodriguez and the New York Yankees reportedly have reached agreement on the outline of a 10-year, $275 million contract that would include additional bonuses if he sets the career home run record as a Yankee.

The amount of the guaranteed money was reported Thursday evening by The Associated Press, citing a person familiar with the negotiations who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal has not been finalized.

Parameters of the deal, which would be the richest in baseball history, were set in place last weekend when Rodriguez reached out to the club. Rodriguez and his wife, Cynthia, then met with Hank and Hal Steinbrenner on Wednesday in Tampa.

"The meeting was a final get-together," Hank Steinbrenner told the AP. "He wanted to make sure myself and my brother knew that he was sincere and serious."

The deal will not be finalized until the Yankees draft the agreement with Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras. Apparently one final order of business concerns just how much money Rodriguez, who has 518 home runs, could earn if and when he surpasses Barry Bonds' career home run record of 762.

"The Yankees have never had a player since Babe Ruth that really had a 100 percent chance [to break the homer record]," Steinbrenner said. "[Mickey] Mantle should have, but he had too many injuries. It's a historical achievement bonus more than it is an incentive bonus. There is no yearly incentive bonus."

The reported agreement comes one day after Rodriguez confirmed making direct contact with the Yankees with the hope of reviving his future in New York, reversing the course of a relationship that appeared to be irretrievably broken when word came of Rodriguez's opt-out during Game 4 of the World Series.

In a statement posted on AROD.com, Rodriguez's official Web site, he said that he had spoken directly with the Steinbrenner family and is taking part in continuing dialogue with the club.

"After spending time with Cynthia and my family over these last few weeks, it became clear to me that I needed to make an attempt to engage the Yankees regarding my future with the organization," Rodriguez said.

"Prior to entering into serious negotiations with other clubs, I wanted the opportunity to share my thoughts directly with Yankees ownership. We know there are other opportunities for us, but Cynthia and I have a foundation with the club that has brought us comfort, stability and happiness."

Hank Steinbrenner then confirmed the Yankees' continuing discussions with Rodriguez in multiple interviews granted late Wednesday.

"Things are moving along, and we'll see how it goes," Steinbrenner told The New York Times. "Everyone seems to be pleased about it. I'm certainly pleased. Despite some cynical attitudes there may be over the next few weeks, Alex genuinely does not want to leave the team, and you really can't blame him, because we've got the talent to win.

"I think he won the fans over during the season last year. I just think he was apologetic for things that happened earlier, when he wasn't necessarily calling the shots. He wants to stay a Yankee."

According to the Times, Boras has been in Rodriguez's hometown of Miami for weeks and has started working on contract language. But Boras was not present at Rodriguez's meeting with the Steinbrenners on Wednesday, and the open dialogue at that meeting is what intensified the negotiations.

"Alex and Cynthia visited with the Steinbrenners and Yankees officials yesterday, and following the meeting, Alex instructed me to discuss contract terms with the Yankees," Boras said in a statement.

Citing his comfort in New York, Rodriguez -- who would be 42 when the contract concludes -- confirmed that he approached the Yankees through a third-party intermediary.

"I reached out to the Yankees through mutual friends and conveyed that message," Rodriguez said. "I also understand that I had to respond to certain Yankees concerns, and I was receptive and understanding of that situation.

"Cynthia and I have since spoken directly with the Steinbrenner family. During these healthy discussions, both sides were able to share honest feelings and hopes with one another, and we expect to continue this dialogue with the Yankees over the next few days."

The Times reported that two officials for global investment bank Goldman Sachs, John Mallory and Gerry Cardinale, were pivotal in brokering the peace between Rodriguez and the Steinbrenners, who were miffed at Rodriguez for opting out of his contract on Oct. 28.

Mallory works in Los Angeles and knows the Rodriguezes from Miami. The Rodriguezes reached out to Mallory, who called Cardinale, who is based in New York and has worked closely with the Yankees on the YES Network. Cardinale called Yankees president Randy Levine several days ago, and has since been instrumental in putting a deal together.

The Yankees were unconcerned that Rodriguez's overture could be a ploy to generate interest in the 11-time All-Star and probable 2007 American League MVP. While most clubs would love to add a player of Rodriguez's magnitude, teams with the financial wherewithal to realistically do it this offseason have proven scarce.

Even the Players Association released a statement last week saying it was concerned that teams were colluding against Rodriguez by sharing monetary information about his status, a strict abrogation of the Basic Agreement.

The Yankees originally backed away from Rodriguez after Game 4 of the World Series when Boras delivered word that Rodriguez had opted out of his contract and forfeited the remaining three years and $81 million on his deal.

At the time, Steinbrenner dismissed talk of pursuing A-Rod, saying, "It's goodbye." Yankees general manager Brian Cashman reiterated numerous times that the Yankees could not fiscally pursue Rodriguez if he opted out, citing the loss of a $21 million subsidy the Rangers agreed to pay when the Yankees acquired him prior to the 2004 season in exchange for second baseman Alfonso Soriano.

In fact, the makeup of the new deal, if it is signed, will probably have Rodriguez forgoing that money at the front end while the Yankees pay more per annum at the back end of the deal, a practice the club favors in its long-term contracts.

Rodriguez, 32, is the clear-cut favorite to be named AL MVP when the award is announced on Monday. It would be Rodriguez's third time bringing home the honor in his career, and the second in four seasons as a member of the Yankees.

Rodriguez led the Major Leagues in home runs (54), RBIs (156) and runs scored (143) in 2007, batting .314 with 24 stolen bases while helping the Yankees dig out of an early hole and attain the AL Wild Card before falling to the Indians in the AL Division Series. He also clubbed his 500th home run on Aug. 4 against the Royals, becoming the youngest player in history to reach that mark. His 518 career home runs already rank him 17th on the all-time list.

Bryan Hoch is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

I'm sure some of it will be forgotten if he performs very well again, but I have to say, I've got a bad taste in my mouth with this. Just looks like he still won even after that boneheaded decision.

And I stand by my comment. I know the Yankees were the only ones really that A)could/would pay this, and B)would have been that interested, with Lowell probably staying with the Red Sox and Florida's price for Miguel Cabrera being too high. So why agree to this? Why let Bora$$ win?

a-rod is shameless :rolleyes: i'm liking him less and less...

and even better, that surly scumbag FA left fielder/DH wannabe is going to get his day in court! finally! the truth will come out!! may God bless the Grand Jury :clap:

I'm glad Bonds got indicted and all...but did they really have to cover it nonstop for 3 HOURS?!?! I missed ATH & PTI because of them. Bonds has my eternal scorn.

it was a little excessive.

I'm glad Bonds got indicted and all...but did they really have to cover it nonstop for 3 HOURS?!?! I missed ATH & PTI because of them. Bonds has my eternal scorn.

Take out Rome is Burning, but ATH and PTI, they gotta be kidding me. :rolleyes:

so long Mr. Nuxhall :salute:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Am70Pf2B5Lo3.IwPIacBtIg5nYcB?slug=ap-obit-nuxhall&prov=ap&type=lgns

youngest dude to have ever appeared in a major league game at a spring-chicken like age of 15 :eek: not to mention a long time Cincinnati broadcaster...

edit: 15! not 16!

The Steinbrenners have gone insane.

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Steinbrenner-says-offer-to-Rivera-is-final?urn=mlb,54077)


Steinbrenner says offer to Rivera is final

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 9:32 am EST

Mariano Rivera can accept the three-year deal for $45 million deal offered by the New York Yankees or leave it according to a report in the New York Post.

Hank Steinbrenner told the Post the Yankees will not offer a fourth year or increase the dollar amount to the veteran reliever.

Steinbrenner wouldn't comment on talks with free agent Mike Lowell or about the possibility of making a deal for Twins left-hander Johan Santana.

Source: New York Post

So the "we won't will talk to A-Rod" episode finally came and now they're giving final offers to Rivera? Yeah, I get that he started out very shaky early in the season and he's getting up there in age, but this tough guy talk is targeted at all the wrong places this offseason.

It'll be a rough ride ahead....

Jimmy Rollins wins the NL MVP! :banana:

looks like the Metropolitans traded Milledge for a bag-o-scrubs :lol:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7508946?MSNHPHMA

bad, bad move imo. why on earth would minaya give up such a good, young talent like milledge for very avg players?

whadya think T?

The Mets needed a catcher. I would have preferred getting Torrealba from free agency, though.

I don't like the deal either. Milledge had so much talent. Schneider is pretty old for a catcher and not hitting much anymore, and I've never really liked Church.

But still, Minaya had Schneider and Church with the Expos, maybe he knows something we don't...

EDIT:

Reyes
Gotay?
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Alou
Church
Schneider
Pitcher

Lineup looks good until the seventh and eight spots.

i dunno dude...we've seen those guys, what, like, 18 times a year? so i don't know what minaya sees that we don't. they're mediocre at best imo. and to trade one of NY's best prospects inside the division like that...whew. 'youse guys better hope this one doesn't come back to haunt you :)

looks like the Metropolitans traded Milledge for a bag-o-scrubs :lol:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7508946?MSNHPHMA

bad, bad move imo. why on earth would minaya give up such a good, young talent like milledge for very avg players?

whadya think T?

No mention for my Nats El J? :p Great, great move by Jim Bowden. We get rid of that bum Schneider and Church wasn't good enough to be starting anyways. Lastings Milledge should be a good player, hopefully. The Nationals are only making themselves a better team.

oops :blush: sorry bud...yes, i think if milledge is what they say he is (i couldn't generate an opinion on him really in only a few ABs) then i think the Nats have got themselves a pretty good deal. and to shed those scrubs, too, is nice.

the more i think about it, the worse this trade seems to me :confused: what's next? Reyes and Beltran for Santana :lol: do it minaya! :lol:

I kinda liked Church, but this is still a good deal for the nati nation

The only thing that's kinda deceiving about Milledge is that he doesn't play as fast as he runs because his swing is so vicious that his home-to-first time isn't very fast, and he hasn't learned to steal bases yet.

Church is an okay player, but Schneider is a shadow of his former self. Milledge can be pitched to, though, and who knows him better than the Mets?

EDIT: I still don't like the trade, but at least this article (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071130&content_id=2314337&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp) made it sound reasonable.

Ok guys, imagine the Boston rotation with Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield, Buchholz, and Santana.

*faints*

Aren't you forgetting Dice-K? It's not like he's that bad. :confused:

I was forgetting about Daisuke! :eek:

Incredible.

Ok guys, imagine the Boston rotation with Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield, Buchholz, and Santana.

*faints*

It'll be overrated and each guy, except for Santana will have an ERA above 3.50. Red Sox make the playoffs on their offense, but lose there.

Your delusional red door :p The Red Sox could win three straight with that rotation.

ha...sour grapes from the young man from Virginia :p

i'd heard that the red sox were contemplating a 6 man rotation for this season.

should be some action this week at the owner's meetings...

I figure one Boston team has to lose this year, it might as well be the Sawx.

Oh, and the Nationals got thug, no-life Elijah Dukes. Now here's a man that won't be turning his life around soon.

Cesar Izturis to the Cards, as we get ready to ship out Eckstein.

Well, I'll be sad to see Eck go as I always loved his commitment, but he really seemed to be on the slide last year and appears to be trying for one last big contract, so I guess I think the Cards are probably right to let him go.

But Izturis ? IMH (and not that knowledgeable) O, he's not that great defensively, and he certainly isn't going to worry anyone with his batting. Maybe the Redbirds are just getting themselves ready for 2009... :(

izturis is only so-so imo. he was probably most hyped when he was w/ the dodgers. however, he's pretty solid and will probably provide what eckstein has over the years. so worry not Lambert :)

WTF!!!

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AholkUo5HjToxc1ez9K4o1g5nYcB?slug=jp-cabreratigers120407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Cabrera, Willis dealt to Tigers
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
December 4, 2007

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – The Detroit Tigers had enough to pull off the biggest heist of the winter after all.

The Tigers acquired Florida Marlins slugger Miguel Cabrera and pitcher Dontrelle Willis for star prospects Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller, plus four other players.

The Tigers have long coveted Cabrera, their management's love affair with him dating back nearly 10 years. Detroit assistant GM Al Avila, then the Marlins' scouting director, frothed over Cabrera as a 15-year-old in Venezuela. A year later, Marlins GM Dave Dombrowski – now in Detroit – plunked down a record $1.8 million to sign Cabrera, and three years after that, he was in the major leagues.

Detroit planted the seed for trades earlier in the day, when manager Jim Leyland approached a Marlins executive Tuesday morning and said, "We want Cabrera." The 24-year-old third baseman, who could be shifted to outfield, was rumored to be headed to the Los Angeles Angels until Detroit jumped into the fray.

As the day progressed, the scope of the trade grew to include the 25-year-old Willis, who finished second in the 2005 NL Cy Young voting.

The Marlins, looking to shed payroll, picked up the 20-year-old Maybin, universally regarded as one of the five best prospects in baseball, and the 22-year-old Miller, a left-handed pitcher who was considered the best player in the 2006 draft. Also included were catcher Mike Rabelo, reliever Eulogio de la Cruz and starters Dallas Trahern and Blake Badenhop.

A knock on Cabrera, 24, has been that he is overweight. It's possible that a rival of the Tigers, Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, inadvertently helped his American League Central foes become more aggressive about acquiring the third baseman when he was quoted Monday night as saying, "He eats the right things. He works out every day. He's in the best shape I've ever seen him in.

"Whoever gets this kid is gonna have a heck of a ballplayer with a different mentality."

Typical Marlins firesale/salary dump. Will this cycle ever end?

Typical Marlins firesale/salary dump. Will this cycle ever end?

Dunno how anyone can support that team, regardless of having a WS win in recent times. It must be just so horribly frustrating, especially when you see, for example, Lowell and Beckett playing major parts in the Red Sox's World Series win this year.

espn etc was saying that the tigers may be the prohibitive foavorite now in the AL. while i think that these 2 guys definitely make detroit better, they should be reminded that it's not like carberra and willis put florida over the top in the last few years. as a matter of fact, from what i saw of willis last year, he had trouble throwing strikes alot of the time and couldn't seem to avoid the big innings. and this was in the NL. so i can't imagine what his era would look like in the AL if he doesn't improve upon last year's debacle. of course, he's young so the chance to turn around is there. but i wouldn't go ahead and annoint detroit the cream of the crop just yet.

dg,

just read in the Phila Daily News that the phils are trying to sign 2B Tad Iguchi to a 3 yr deal. however, the kicker is that they're trying to convince him to play 3B instead of second. he was reluctant to do this last season but has recently warmed to the idea as per his agent.

i'd love to have him in there every day instead of helms or dobbs. what do you think?

Yes. But my eyes are on H.Blalock most of all, I just don't think the Rangers
are too keen on trading him and don't know what the Phils could offer back.

blalock would be nice. no doubt. i even read some speculation by one of the philly rag's writers about that. not sure what it'd take though to get him...

i read an unsubstantiated rumor last night that the phils were on the verge of trading kendrick, madson, and a high level prospect to baltimore for bedard :confused: he'd look sweet as hell in a phils uniform :) that kid can really fire it.

Wow! Now that would be terrific. Hamels, Myers, Bedard ... now we are
onto something ;) . Why would Baltimore do that one though??? :scan:

yeah, he's one of the best young arms out there imo. now, i reckon that the o's are shopping him...for one reason or another. however, as you'd imagine, their are other suitors lined up w/ offers (mets, dodgers, angels iirc). so it's not as if the phils are onto something that the rest of mlb isn't. plus, they're saying that the offers from the other teams top that of the philly offer. so it's wholly speculative for now...but certainly food for thought. i mean, if gillick could add an arm like that, wow. that'd put them right at the top of the NL imo.

i think that once the santana mess gets sorted out, the other ducks'll start to fall in line (ie. bedard & the oak SPs).

as for why they'd trade him...well...it's the orioles! 'nuff said! :lol:

nat's sign the pedophile catcher from the queens (lo duca) to a 1 yr deal :p i hate that guy...

nat's sign the pedophile catcher from the queens (lo duca) to a 1 yr deal :p i hate that guy...

Jeez, I would rather bring an outfielder in to catch than to sign that guy :mad: . Now the Mets, Red Sox AND the Nationals are on my 'I can't stand' list.

Good pick up for the Nationals. We needed a catcher until Flores is ready to be full-time.

If that was what was gonna happen, why didn't the Mets just try to re-sign Lo Duca and keep Milledge? :confused:

EDIT: Church reminds me of a left-handed Nady.

Cesar Izturis to the Cards, as we get ready to ship out Eckstein.

Well, I'll be sad to see Eck go as I always loved his commitment, but he really seemed to be on the slide last year and appears to be trying for one last big contract, so I guess I think the Cards are probably right to let him go.

But Izturis ? IMH (and not that knowledgeable) O, he's not that great defensively, and he certainly isn't going to worry anyone with his batting. Maybe the Redbirds are just getting themselves ready for 2009... :(

Trust me Izturis is a over hyped tool. glad to see you have thm.

Hey Cubbie, you guys picked up Fukudome for 4yrs-48 million. What are your
thoughts on this? :scan:

I'm happie that we now have 2/3 of an outfield. I think it's a worse deal though when Gary Mathews got 10 mil from the angels. This guy only has a 300 batting average over there, over here that's only about a 270 plus he was injured last year.

Whoah, Astros trade 5 players for Miguel Tejada...I dunno, Luke Scott was not a bad player.

Tejada sucks and mark my words, will be named by that report tomorrow.

Yea, that's exactly what I was thinking. While I don't mind the gamble with the trade, I do mind picking him up RIGHT before the Mitchell report comes out...

we gonna get stoled :(

Why all the Tejada hate? Not just here, I've been seeing this alot since the trade went down. Why do people think he is going to be named in the report? I haven't heard any rumors about him before.

The guys got at least 25 HR and 80 RBIs in him. For a SS in the NL thats pretty good for a low estimate.

Yankee trainer interviewed by mitchell, says Clemons will be named in report.

NBC released an original list, but then retracted -> http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html

Names in the article before it was pulled: Pujols, Pettitte, Pudge Rodriguez, Tejada, Clemens, Prior, Wood, Brian Roberts, Johnny Damon, Jeff Bagwell, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, Sheffield, Mo Vaughn

NBC released an original list, but then retracted -> http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html

Names in the article before it was pulled: Pujols, Pettitte, Pudge Rodriguez, Tejada, Clemens, Prior, Wood, Brian Roberts, Johnny Damon, Jeff Bagwell, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, Sheffield, Mo Vaughn

The connection of most of them--players trying to come back from an injury and "getting help" .

They retracted that because some of those names are mentioned but not for taking steroids. Probably somebody just scanning for names and typing out a list.

There are a lot of names in that report and some of them are just "well he said this happened" kind of stuff, it seems a little murky and players named in this report are still going to be denying this and fighting it tooth and nail. For instance, Tejada is named for injecting B12 and the whole Palmeiro incident. The fallout from this is going to be interesting because I bet a lot of places are going to be putting out these lists of names in the report, and then players will be coming back and saying "hey I wasn't named for taking steroids," or "it wasn't proven" and so on. What a mess!

Yea, that's exactly what I was thinking. While I don't mind the gamble with the trade, I do mind picking him up RIGHT before the Mitchell report comes out...

we gonna get stoled :(

I hate to brag, but god damn, I was right. ;)

Cubs don't resign Prior just before the report comes out, then he's on the report. think somebody got wind of it just in time :lol:

Same with Nook Logan, he was supposed to be signed by the Nationals yesterday too.

Same with Nook Logan, he was supposed to be signed by the Nationals yesterday too.


The Red Soxs had 21 unsign players today--they offered 20 of them contracts this morning. The only one they failed too was Donnelly--who happened to be on the report. But they had no prior knowledge from mitchell :rolleyes:

i read about half of that report last night...and it's pretty damning. i mean, the way team officials etc brushed it all under the rug. some of the players even had the goods sent to their damn clubhouses! and the injections...insane!

clemens is done i'm afraid...pettitte, too. such a shame. i suppose red sox fans are delighted though.

Cubs don't resign Prior just before the report comes out, then he's on the report. think somebody got wind of it just in time :lol:

But wasn't Wood on the list too? And they re-signed him... I think maybe
Prior's shoulder is kaput- because they sure have invested alot of time, effort
and money into him. The list is too large, not to mention the players that were NOT named... to have too much of an effect on current signings in my
opinion.

NBC released an original list, but then retracted -> http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html

Names in the article before it was pulled: Pujols, Pettitte, Pudge Rodriguez, Tejada, Clemens, Prior, Wood, Brian Roberts, Johnny Damon, Jeff Bagwell, Trot Nixon, Jason Varitek, Sheffield, Mo Vaughn

I can't find either Pujols or Pudge mentioned in any respect searching through the report. Frankly, I'd be pretty gutted if either of them was mentioned - I'm too old for hero-worshipping, but I'd certainly feel very disillusioned if either of them has been consciously cheating.

I feel awfully disillusioned about Clemens. The section on him (the only one I've read properly) makes damning reading. Am I just kidding myself in hoping that he was clean until '98, so we can at least keep the memories of how good he used to be ?

well said Lambert :( i guess clemens gives new meaning to the term "well-oiled machine"...

Consaco says A-ROD juiced too, when asked how he knew he stated--everything and everyone in my book was correct right? Trust me on this one too.

Jose Canseco is a huckster who's only opening his mouth because it'll sell his book.

But he's also never been wrong when it comes to steroids in baseball. He's the Grandfather, or Godfather if you will, of Roidball. As big a grain of salt as I'd take with his word on any other subject, when it comes to steroids in baseball, he's the expert, and I believe him. He points his finger unerringly when it comes to this. Probably because he hooked all these guys up in the first place and that's why he knows. :)

But he knows. And he has no friends or potential spot in the Hall of Fame to buy his silence. Any other subject I pay him little heed, but if he says a guy juiced or is juicing, I believe him.

As the old saying goes, It Takes One To Know One.

it's hard for me to believe canseco's assertions. i'd believe a federal investigation or Geroge Mitchell before i would canseco...although anything is possible w/ all of this shizniq.

on a sidenote - i'm pleased as punch that no current phila phils were named. now guys like Rollins, Howard, and Utley can bask in the glow of post 'roid ball glory :cool:

If that was what was gonna happen, why didn't the Mets just try to re-sign Lo Duca and keep Milledge? :confused:Oh. So that was why.

it's hard for me to believe canseco's assertions. i'd believe a federal investigation or Geroge Mitchell before i would canseco...although anything is possible w/ all of this shizniq.


Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about Canseco, is that he is such a valuable source of information when it comes to steroids in baseball, and yet he comes off as such a self serving huckster.

Because he IS a self-serving huckster.

And he's obviously not motivated to turn tattle tale on baseball's juicers for any altruistic reasons, such as, say, Frank Thomas and his willing cooperation with Mitchell, the only active player to do so (and hats off to The Big Hurt for doing so).

Canseco's telling tales because he senses it's a way to make a buck. Cashing in on his reputation and his unique experience and expertise in this field. But I think that's what keeps him honest, so to speak. As soon as he starts fingering the wrong guy, his credibility as "the steroid expert" is done. And who's going to buy his book then? Who's going to give him interview time to plug his book then? :)

So until he starts being wrong, I buy what he's saying. Just not literally [not buying your book, Huckster! Jim Bouton you ain't! :)]

I believe the Mitchell Report too, in so far as who it has fingered deserving to be so... but I don't think it found everybody who deserves to be fingered. Not even close.

I can't find either Pujols or Pudge mentioned in any respect searching through the report. Frankly, I'd be pretty gutted if either of them was mentioned - I'm too old for hero-worshipping, but I'd certainly feel very disillusioned if either of them has been consciously cheating.

Yeah, that early report was wrong on the players. I'm very glad that Pujols was not on it as he's my oldest son's favorite player (him and Howard of the Phils). I thought there were rumors about Pudge when he was a Marlin, but I might be wrong.
Anyways, the report really only relies on three sources, so this list is in no way comprehensive. However, I doubt they are going to do anymore digging. I just hope that this helps the drug testing program improve, and not just in baseball, but in all pro sports.

I did not see Bagwell on the official list...I hope he stays that way.

Speaking of the Astros, we apparently have interest in Prior -_- Great, we can have the unsteroided husks of formerly great players! :D

Alright here is my take on the mitchell report and other things in this thread
1. We didn't resign Prior because he is a dick and demanded a two year contract, after sitting on his ass for three years and looking to stay that way. Good thing he got that college diploma.
2. We resigned Kerry Wood because he is a fan favorite for god knows why.
3. Slammin Sammy Sosa only mentioned in the list. ONly to to say that he didn't fill out a questionare. So he now holds the highest single season home run record not to be reported in any major Steroids Scandal or report.

The Red Soxs had 21 unsign players today--they offered 20 of them contracts this morning. The only one they failed too was Donnelly--who happened to be on the report. But they had no prior knowledge from mitchell :rolleyes:
I'll answer this with this
0 — Number of current Boston Red Sox players named in the Mitchell Report (lead investigator Senator George Mitchell is presently on the Red Sox's board of directors. Conspiracy theorists, make of that what you will).

I'll answer this with this

0 — Number of current Boston Red Sox players named in the Mitchell Report (lead investigator Senator George Mitchell is presently on the Red Sox's board of directors. Conspiracy theorists, make of that what you will).

C'mon. There's no way Mitchell has chosen not to investigate players because they're currently on the Red Sox. That's elementary school level reasoning.

cubsfan, Sosa did steroids. We have been over this.

No comprende Englais? Gimme a break :p

cubsfan, Sosa did steroids

And even if he didn't--corked bat ring a bell?

It is quite obvious that the League knew about this the whole time until the Senate hearings. Now, after all that revenues have gone up since that Home-run surge , they now have more hooked audiences to flock to their arenas to even up the potential of another loss of capital in years to come and allow the inquisitions to be made against the (worker-bees) players. It is a clever marketing scheme on the owners parts to conceal the fact that they orchastrated it by allowing it to happen.

they now have more hooked audiences to flock to their arenas to even up the potential of another loss of capital in years to come and allow the inquisitions to be made against the (worker-bees) players.

Last time I checked, no one forced the worker bee's to do this and accept the millions of $ that came with it.

Last time I checked, no one forced the worker bee's to do this and accept the millions of $ that came with it.

I did not say that. Of course no one forces them, but simply, the owners allowed it to happen.

Astros get one of the best closers in the game from the Diamondbacks...

Ok, hate the Tejada deal, love the closer deal.

I don't really like the Tejada deal either. I don't think the Astros are going to compete for a playoff spot next season anyways, and now they have an overpaid SS, and lost some good prospects.

cubsfan, Sosa did steroids. We have been over this.

No comprende Englais? Gimme a break :p

If called in front of a foreign government what language would you speak? l know I would speak english.

If called in front of a foreign government what language would you speak? l know I would speak english.

Being able to speak perfect English for the media, and then forgetting how to speak it before Congress. That's weak.

Any Mets fans here besides me?

Tomoyo, whereever he is.

Tomoyo, whereever he is.

No, he's a Boston fan that has sympathy for the Mets. How do I know that? I had another account here from 2004-dec 2007, lol. Asked for the old one to be banned and opened a new one. :lol: Any Mets fans I don't know of?:p

I was a Met fan that hid in shame while they were horrible, 'kay?

So I'm guessing your hiding in shame right now? :mischief:

heh, i tried holding out on the extra salt on T's 2 month+ wounds :mischief: but i couldn't resist :p

i was so elated after that epic collapse and the Phils' benefitting from it that i bought a NY Daily News (i think that was the publication) the day after. it had a pic of a kid, no older than 5 or 6, complete w/ a Mets hat and tee balling his eyes out! hilarious stuff!!

Yes I had to buy the chicago tribune It's sprot section had this head line "Mets complete historic collapse." Hilarious.

Yes I had to buy the chicago tribune It's sprot section had this head line "Mets complete historic collapse." Hilarious.

Whens the last time the Cubbies won the world series. 100 years?:p

I was a Met fan that hid in shame while they were horrible, 'kay?

tsk tsk tsk. I have never hid in shame from my Mets. :)

Well.. my cardinals seem to have pretty much completed a third base swap. Scott Rolen for the Blue Jays Troy Glaus. I'm fairly happy to see him go. He's had awful production the last couple of years and caused more trouble than he's worth.

How did everyones team fair?

I know Rolen's been down lately, but so has Glaus. I almost think of it as a downgrade for the Blue Jays, although both will probably hit .250, 10-15 dingers, and 60 RBI's. Not what you want from a 3B.

The Nationals need some pitching, as always. The new stadium is getting closer to being completed. I might run by there today to see how it's doing. I am more and more impressed with Manny Acta this offseason. I think the Nationals are an ace and 4 starters away from contending for a wild card spot. I really like our line-up, unless Lo Duca gets suspended for the Mitchell thing. Picking up Aaron Boone, even if he's not the same guy, was a great move. I'm not sold on Belliard or Guzman's hitting, but Lopez is a backup. I love the whole outfield. This team could surprise people if they hit well. If they don't score at least 5 runs a game, it could easily be a 90 loss season.

rolen is a bum :rolleyes: i remember when he wanted out of philly and was traded to St Louis he remarked that he was going to "baseball heaven" :rolleyes: yet he can't get along w/ anyone...fussed about bowa when in philly and then la russa. what's next?

it's all too bad b/c he had phenomenal skills...particularly at 3B. i used to say that he fielded better than schmidt (better arm imo). but that is all out the window now b/c of those shoulder and back injuries.

addit: a little rosey there, aren't we Al? :p

addit: a little rosey there, aren't we Al? :p

I have to be. If I wasn't, why would I see this team in the new stadium? Cupholders in every seat?

heh, don;t let those simpleton ammentities lull you into thinking that the stadium is all 'dat. they did the same thing in philly and that place is a sheety little band box :)

I know Rolen's been down lately, but so has Glaus. I almost think of it as a downgrade for the Blue Jays, although both will probably hit .250, 10-15 dingers, and 60 RBI's. Not what you want from a 3B.

Hopefully Glaus will do better with a healed foot and some change of scenery.

I really don't know what the Astros did...Tejada, the closer whose name escapes me...some really awesome moves and totally idiotic move.

I know Rolen's been down lately, but so has Glaus. I almost think of it as a downgrade for the Blue Jays, although both will probably hit .250, 10-15 dingers, and 60 RBI's. Not what you want from a 3B.


Well, I'd expect Glaus to hit more HRs than that. He's had 95 in the last three seasons, while Rolen has had 35 - difficult to infer from that stat that they offer the same offensive possibilities.

Glaus is clearly a downgrade defensively, and, if both are healthy, perhaps he's not enough of an offensive upgrade to compensate for the loss of the Rolen's glove. But Rolen had to go, and, IMHO, Scotty has much more of a question mark over his ability to return to offensive form.

Well, I'd expect Glaus to hit more HRs than that. He's had 95 in the last three seasons, while Rolen has had 35 - difficult to infer from that stat that they offer the same offensive possibilities.

Glaus is clearly a downgrade defensively, and, if both are healthy, perhaps he's not enough of an offensive upgrade to compensate for the loss of the Rolen's glove. But Rolen had to go, and, IMHO, Scotty has much more of a question mark over his ability to return to offensive form.

Not that Rolen's defense is a massive miss. Eckstain was an awful defender and we just replaced him with a pretty sound defensive shortstop. For the most part though, agreed. Rolen just absolutely had to go. I'm just happy that we got rid of him without paying and ton and still getting a decent replacement.

Man everytime I see the cardinals pick up anyone I cringe, they always end up surpassing expectations for some reason. Lets see the cubbies signed a pretty hyped outfielder, and for a little continuity we still don't have a solid closer or centerfielder, which is the same problem we've had for about 5 years at least. Hendry's policy of you can never have too many middle infielders is in full force though because we are full steam ahead for a guy like roberts, and not really interested in a guy like bedard. If pie can ever hit a ball, ro we find a solution in center, and then one of our three prospective closers (howry,marmol,wood) turns out we could make a nice run.

Man everytime I see the cardinals pick up anyone I cringe, they always end up surpassing expectations for some reason.

Have me kind of confused. Is this a good thing or a bad thing (for a cardinals fan :lol: )?

Lets see the cubbies signed a pretty hyped outfielder, and for a little continuity we still don't have a solid closer or centerfielder, which is the same problem we've had for about 5 years at least. Hendry's policy of you can never have too many middle infielders is in full force though because we are full steam ahead for a guy like roberts, and not really interested in a guy like bedard. If pie can ever hit a ball, ro we find a solution in center, and then one of our three prospective closers (howry,marmol,wood) turns out we could make a nice run.

Well... the Cubs made a damn good run last year, but not good enough to make it past the playoffs. By appearances though (from a person who just flipped through the subs off-season transactions) the status quo is about the same as last season. Short of something going really wrong.. your probably have about the same record as last year.

The cubs had an awful start last year. I remember going to agame about to months in and joking about us making the payoffs. I imagine they won't have the same awfull start and can likely get 95 wins.

Santana to Mets? (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220894)

I hope Minaya can get Tyner as a throw-in.

EDIT: Humber and Gomez were really nice talents, especially Gomez... almost as fast as Tyner, but well worth this. Humber should pan out to at best a second starter for an average team.

I'm glad he went to the Mets. Sox don't part with their good young prospects and the Yanks don't get him. Win-win AFAIC.

At first I was excited by the news that the best pitcher in baseball was leaving the AL Central...but then I remembered how he went 1-5 against the Indians this year.

How can you trade the best player in baseball and not even get the other teams best prospect? Living in minneapolis the people on the radio here are hoping this turns out to be an AJ pierzinski trade again, but we'll see I guess. I'm sure the mets hope this isn't a Frank Viola situation again. Especially with the money they will be paying out.

I'm glad he went to the Mets. Sox don't part with their good young prospects and the Yanks don't get him. Win-win AFAIC.

I am really shocked the Yankees didn't get him. Through all of this I just knew they would.

What is the most depressing is that he is going to the despised Mets :mad: -
the Phils rival. Good news for Tomoyo, bad news for dgfred and El J :cry: .
I don't wish anything bad for any player really, but maybe his arm will get just
a little sore on gamedays vs the Phillies.

heh, santana just sealed his fate :) to die off like all other big names who go to the junior team in NYC :p

I just don't understand it :confused: , like King of Town noted- they didn't even get their best prospects. Really surprising, but who knows... the Twins
do deserve some kudos for past moves they have made. Maybe they see something that I don't know about :crazyeye: .

well, i'm not so concerned, really, as a phils fan. the dude takes the hill every 5 days. so it's not like they got an a-rod or anything...

i know pitching wins titles and all...but we're talkin' about the mets here :lol: and one dude ain't gonna put them over the hump imo.

addit: oh, and my new year's resolution is to manage my hockey team :p

well, i'm not so concerned, really, as a phils fan. the dude takes the hill every 5 days. so it's not like they got an a-rod or anything...

i know pitching wins titles and all...but we're talkin' about the mets here :lol: and one dude ain't gonna put them over the hump imo.

addit: oh, and my new year's resolution is to manage my hockey team :p

Well, thank goodness on the hockey stuff :D ... finally.

Yeah, you never know about pitchers, but I sure would have rather seen him
in the American League :sad: .

yes, i knew you'd like that :D and as usual, you're at the very top :p some things never change :lol:

we'll see, i guess, w/ how he does in NY. but queens isn't minnesota. so i wonder how it'll unfold once the proverbial 'bronx cheers' begin to filter down at some point. but like i've always said - and history can back this up - high profile FAs and the like go to flushing to die...or to fizzle away...or to horrendously choke. so we shall see :mischief:

Once spring training hits.. we should all take a shot at the division leaders/wildcards. See how good are guesses are ;).

If you hate the Mets, take solace that they are going to have the largest pitching contract in the history of baseball on their books for the next 6 or 7 years, and you can bet that for the last 2 or 3 it will NOT be worth it. Their rotations has question marks beyond Santana. Pedro (injury history) El Duque (old, not very good), Maine (probably most promising after Santana) and Perez (potential to be amazing but he has really stunk it up the past 3 years). However, if Pedro remains healthy and Maine stays consistent, you have a solid 1-2-3 punch for the Mets. If Perez finds himself and actually throws strikes, he becomes a solid 3rd or 4th starter too and the Mets rotation suddenly becomes great. (Remember his 2004 season? 239Ks in 196 IP! Granted that will probably never happen again as he couldn't find the strikezone for three years after that but still, last year he looked promising.) That's alot of "ifs" though.

And, they lost some of their good prospects (although not their best hitting prospect) and thus limited their ability to make moves at the deadline, when having that flexibility is even more important.

I think no question this makes the Mets better, and they were already a good team with a good lineup and decent pitching, but don't despair yet NL east fans.

oh, i ain't despairin' :D i'm hatin' :lol:

Strider,
i think we do something like that each year here (i think). another thing we do is the fantasy league which is alot of fun...you should sign up when the time comes. illram, you too! :cool:

^^ I'm in. Do you guys do a Yahoo public league? I used to do waaay to many of those a year, now I try to just have 3 or 4.

yes, yahoo is the one we use :)

one of us usually starts a thread once pitchers & catchers report...which is only a few weeks off. so keep an eye out :D

Wait...the Mets are the cursed franchise that cant win titles? From a Phillies fan I find that hard to believe :p

I find this a total steal for the Mets. Seriously, who did they really give up?

Santana will be 34 or 35 by the end of the contract, I would think he'd still be pretty darn good not to mention the fact that his probable 5 20 win seasons the years before it will make any thing that happens in years 6 or 7 alright. I find it hard to believe people are saying don't despair when it took one of the biggest collapses ever to keep the mets out of the playoffs. I think this pretty much locks up the east. Having seen johann pitch a lot, including the best game I've ever seen when he struck out 17, there is no way he would be part of any such collapse. The one thing they should probably worry about is his playoff record, i don't remember him being the same guy when that time rolls around.

Of course you never know what will happen. Biggest contract and best pitcher (at the time) doesn't always work out. For example B.Zito last yr
for the Giants/ M.Hampton for Rockies, Braves/ K.Brown for Dodgers, Yankees...

I hate that the Mets got him, ruined my off-season :cry: . Still, even if he
wins 20+ games... the other pitchers (starters and relief) will have to pick up
their games some. One excellent pitcher does not make a team. If Pedro is
back in decent form and the others improve it should be almost a lock for the
Mets to at least make the playoffs. Delgado will have to hit better, Beltran will have to turn it up again, big years from Reyes and Wright, we will see :scan: . Hey, there is still room for the Phils to make it anyway :D .

yes, one player does not make a team, especially one that only goes every five days.

Azale,
you're still smarting from my cowboys remarks, aren't you :p kidder, the mets have historically struck out on the FA market. that is what i meant. and we can't discount last year's collapse. it was one for the ages and has a chance to linger should the mets get out of the gate slowly.

on another front - i saw that clemens intends to report to the astros camp. what are they saying down there?

Santana is much better than Hampton, Brown, or Zito ever were...

@eljusto, they are not saying much...Clemens is certainly not saying much and if the Astros were to just let him in...well, we might have as many people being indicted by the Supreme Court as we will have All-Stars in about a year :p

I would compare this less with zito and brown and more with maddux. A guy that was a cy young award winner and young. Sure Zito is young too, but if I were a GM there is one thing I would avoid like the plague Curveball throwing pitchers. They need that pitch to survive but that pitch ultimatly destroys their arms. When was the last time you saw a player that relied on the curveball stay good? Changeup and fastball are all you need, and pretty close to all he's got.

Once every five days, yes. But great every five days, the best in the league every five days. The way hitters go through slumping cycles you need someone that can come out every five days, throw a lot of innings and shut the opponents offense down. That way even when you score two runs by mistake you still win.

@Azale
:lol:

yes, good points all. i agree w/ them for the most part.

bert blyleven comes to mind when i think of SPs who relied so heavily on their deuce. that dude was nasty back in the day. of course, this was a few decades ago. mussina and his knuckle-curve, too.

i look forward to seeing a Ryan Howard v. Santana matchup. that's what it's all about as they say :)

Santana is much better than Hampton, Brown, or Zito ever were...


Who's comparing them??? I was speaking of how those monster contracts for top line pitchers sometimes turn very ugly, very quickly.

i agree dg. it can get dicey more often than not. but it improved their rotation a good deal.

just read in one of the philly rags that an unnamed NL scout told a certain scribe that the phils actually called minnesota re santana and we told that he wouldn't waive his no trade clause to come to philly. whatever...he listed the mets and the bosox as the only 2 teams he'd be willing to waive it for.

my question is why the hell would he want to go to the mets and not the yankees? i mean, the mets are always second fiddle (as they should be).

The mets are also the all latin team. I'm sure that's why he would want to go there, I probably would if I were him too.

And maybe because he looked into what ARod was going through with the Yankees.

@dg, I was just saying that Santana is much more likely to live up to his contract than the others. Plus, going from the AL to the NL will lengthen his career and his dominance. Zito was declining sharply before his big contract, and Hampton/Brown were just never THAT good to begin with.

The BIGGEST concern for me is an injury. I really think if Santana is healthy, he will dominate and win multiple Cy Young's but that he has about the same chance to blow out his arm and become injury prone.

I picked the Phillies last year for the WS! My Philadelphia hate is strictly restricted to the NFL ;)

^^ I think Zito will rebound this year, FWIW. From what I remember he had a better 2nd half, with less walks being the main difference.

He should get back to around his '06 numbers.

Eagles rule! I think Zito is a lot like a Steve Stone. One year guy, who is pretty much average the rest of his career. Which is why if the cubs can get rid of Rich Hill, I will be happy. Maybe Andy McPhail can give us a discount and we can trade him straight up for bedard. Oh I mean maybe Angelos would do it. He obviously doesn't want a good young player for Bedard, maybe he wants a not so young, not so good player?

:lol: Steve Stone :lol: nice one, dude. isn't he a broadcaster now? w/ the cubs maybe :confused:

zito ought to bounce back i'd think. maybe not 20 wins but 15 isn't out of the question. 200 IP and an improved k-to-bb ratio, too.

He was one of the best announcers I had heard, but we kicked him out after o4 and now he just does random commentary. I was looking at zito's stats and everything he did last year, with the exception of pitching a few less innings ( though more games than usual), is right in line with what he does every year. It looks like it is basically the team around him that determines how good he is. Like every pitcher he needs a good defense around him to be any good.

i didn't get to see him pitch but i'd imagine he struggled w/ locating that deuce of his. SF could remake itself this year w/out big head...not that they're going to win any pennants or anything. but to get rif of that black cloud is a nice start, i'd think :)

They do have an extra-cool centerfielder :mad: .

yes, that one smarted. should be interesting to see whether the Flyin Hawaiin can hold up for a whole season...

That dude resurected my fantasy team for a while. I would love to have him in center for my cubbies. All we ever produce in centerfield are overhyped busts, or washups. I never hear anything about sf's farm system I wonder if they have anyone there at all. Even though they haven't traded anyone. Well except for that whole boof bonser, lariano, nathan for pierzynski trade. Guess they sort of take away your trading privledges after that.

victorino is a sparkplug, no doubt. he did indeed put up some real nice fantast no's last season despite not being a power dude and getting dinged up late in the year. that's the only real knock on him so far is his durability. i've read though that he's worked out pretty heavily this off season. so we shall see as they say :)

patterson was the last CF for chi that i remember not panning out. he was pretty hyped, too, iirc.

ST. LOUIS -- The Cardinals announced on Monday that they have agreed to a deal with two-time American League MVP Juan Gonzalez. The slugger, who did not play in the Majors in 2006 or 2007, received a Minor League contract with an invitation to big league Spring Training.

Gonzalez, a native of Puerto Rico, is not playing winter ball this offseason. Instead, he has been working at the Winter Training Program in Puerto Rico, an academy that is the brainchild of Eduardo Perez. Perez, a former Cardinals player, was one of several people to recommend Gonzalez, 38, to Cardinals GM John Mozeliak. Others who reported that Gonzalez has looked good include Albert Pujols, Yadier Molina and Cards coach Jose Oquendo.

The Cardinals already had a roster crunch in the outfield, so nothing will be guaranteed for Gonzalez. Rick Ankiel, Chris Duncan, Skip Schumaker and Ryan Ludwick appear to be favorites for spots, with Rule 5 Draftee Brian Barton, top prospect Colby Rasmus and Gonzalez among those pushing for a chance. Gonzalez would appear to be in most direct competition with Ludwick, who is also a right-handed-hitting power hitter.

In a career that has spanned all or part of 17 seasons, Gonzalez is a lifetime .295 hitter with a .343 on-base percentage, a .561 slugging percentage and 434 home runs. He had one at-bat with the Indians in 2005 and played in 33 games for the Royals in 2004. Gonzalez has seven seasons of at least 35 home runs and was voted the AL MVP in 1996 and 1998.

Gonzalez will be one of 26 non-roster invitees in Cards camp, but he was one of only two additions since last week, as the club announced its full spring roster. Minor Leaguer David Carpenter will serve as a seventh catcher, but the rest of the list -- including top prospects Rasmus, Bryan Anderson and Chris Perez, as well as veterans D'Angelo Jimenez and Josh Phelps -- was reported by MLB.com in late January

I've honestly never heard of the guy until now. Think he has a chance of coming back?

I always think cardinal guys are going to be awesome just to stop the cubs. I loathe the cardinals.He hasn't played in the majors for 3 years. Thats probably too long away, and it'll take some hefty HGH to get him back to his younger days.

Short Answer: No, he can't.
Long Answer: If Dmitri Young could do it, then anyone can...

I've honestly never heard of the guy until now. Think he has a chance of coming back?
oh yes, he was a stud for many years. i'm surprised there was no mention of the 'roid rumors with him though...he was a prime canidate for that era imo. he could always knock the snot out of the ball though. if he's healthy and hasn't lost too much bat speed, i think he could definitely contribuite.

He's going to have real problems in the field though, even if he can still hit some. :scan:

I remember the Indians spending a million on the guy, only to have him barely see the field all season...

he had a good year for the tribe back in the early 2000's though iirc. i had him on my fantasy team that year :D got him cheap, too.

Schilling's out till the All-Star Break. Looks like the promising rookies Lester and Buchholz will get there shot, barring a move for another starter.

Wasn't expecting much out of Schill to be honest, but maybe this is for the best and he can give us a solid 3 months before he hangs em up.

Well I did hear on the XM that Juan Gone had been playing in mexican leagues and whatnot, and that people were basically begging him to come back, so he must have something.

You can probably expect just as much out of schilling as the d-backs did from randy johnson last year. It's sad to see them get old because I grew up with them, but they have to hang it up sometime. I hope they don't make biggio's out of themselves.

Well I did hear on the XM that Juan Gone had been playing in mexican leagues and whatnot, and that people were basically begging him to come back, so he must have something.

The Post dispatch reports the same thing. He's been ripping the Carribean (not mexican) league to pieces.

when does fantasy bb start around here?

:lol: Steve Stone :lol: nice one, dude. isn't he a broadcaster now? w/ the cubs maybe :confused:


Steve Stone was a broad caster witht he cubs. Then in all the 2005 bull . .. .. .. . dusty Baker ended up blaming the anouncers (along with baseclogging walkers) for the teams loseing. So chip carey (Harry's grandson) was fired cause he was a awful announcer, and Steve Stone quit because he had every right to. Now he works for a anti cubs station because they play the sox games.

They claim to not be anti cubs at every oppurtunity, but then bash bash bash. I remember last year they were saying there was no chance pinellas tirade would lead to any wins.

670 is pretty full of bull. So I just listen to espn.

when does fantasy bb start around here?

Probably signing up next month. I intend to join this year!

next month? For live drafts? We do offline at poly so we got start near the end of february

Now that bedard is finally traded, i wonder if the roberts to the cubs deal will happen? Probably the last thing we need is another middle infielder ( my friend says Hendry thinks he can win games by just collecting every 2nd baseman in the league and forcing the other teams to forfeit) but Roberts is pretty good.

Twins got rid of Santana but according to a KTLK report, they've picked up Livan Hernandez for one year today.

Man I live in the twin cities so that means every game I go to he will start I know it. I hate him after he dazzled my cubs in the playoffs.

MLB just announced Bonds failed a steroid test just a month after he hit HR #73, but pitcher Kenny Rogers said today that there's @100 names HE KNOWS of that are not on the Mitchell report. So I quess my question is--if Bonds is juiced but the pitcher, catcher, 2 infielders and the center fielder on the team he is playing against are too, why is he the villian? It is pretty clear now that @ 50% of them were doing it.

And now the Feds are saying they didn't say it--it was a typo!

He's the vilan because he is breaking records with it, his career could have potentially been over a couple years ago, and with him hiting less homers per season his last couple years. he might not even have broke willie mays. Before injuries griffey was going to break it, and now A-rod or pujols are defeninetly on track to do it. it was going to get broken, but to get broken by someone cheating to do it is horrible.

well said!

MLB just announced Bonds failed a steroid test just a month after he hit HR #73, but pitcher Kenny Rogers said today that there's @100 names HE KNOWS of that are not on the Mitchell report. So I quess my question is--if Bonds is juiced but the pitcher, catcher, 2 infielders and the center fielder on the team he is playing against are too, why is he the villian? It is pretty clear now that @ 50% of them were doing it.

And now the Feds are saying they didn't say it--it was a typo!

Well it seems if the players admitted wrong-doing, instead of lying (in Bonds'
case continuously and often) to Feds nothing will become of it. That is why
I don't understand why Clemens didn't just keep quiet and let the chips fall
where they may. Now he too is in very deep sheet if they can prove that he is lying. Of course being a GIANT arse didn't help Bonds' situation either :mischief: .

yes, it's looking more and more like the rocket is now in the same league as bonds...and all of the sultry info about clemens is disturbing :(

He's the vilan because he is breaking records with it, his career could have potentially been over a couple years ago, and with him hiting less homers per season his last couple years. he might not even have broke willie mays. Before injuries griffey was going to break it, and now A-rod or pujols are defeninetly on track to do it. it was going to get broken, but to get broken by someone cheating to do it is horrible.

So if 200 players cheat BUT DO NOT break records it's O.K.? There's dozens and dozens of players named out there but only Bonds and Clemens are targets. After those 2 it seems they have no intention of going after anyone else. to say "we must get Bonds because he broke a record but ignore players B,C, & D because they only hit@ .250 is crap.

But if you take away the awards/rewards for the players that take steroids (read cheat or take shortcuts to become athletically competitive) then the players that use the drugs and are still mediocre may stop. It is not going to stop, ofcourse, but may diminish the corruption.
This, hopefully, will be the case in every sport.

1) Bonds is the villian because people don't like him, because he's always been abrasive, and unwilling to suck up to the right people. Fewer friends, fewer people willing to forgive, more people relishing the idea of his downfall. He also made the mistake of chasing the record, which meant sticking around and playing longer and thus making it easy for him to be painted as the poster child for the steroids era. McGwire, who used first and broke the homerun record first, also retired very quickly and got himself out of sight and out of mind, and lives mostly consequence free, except for a few self-righteous hall of fame voters who have their heads in the sand and won't put him in yet. It has very little to do with steroids, or even the record breaking. Other guys juice (y helo thar Mitchell Report), and other juicers break records or accomplish great statistical feats (Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, and too many others to mention here). But they don't make enemies like Barry does. Barry's the bad guy, and people like to see the bad guy get his comeuppance; it's why people watch professional wrestling; they know it's scripted, and thus they know the bad guy will eventually get what's coming to him. Steroids just happens to be the means to that end. Steroids, tax evasion, infidelity, burning the flag, whatever might happen to stick, we the people will run with.

2) Clemens, whose career has paralleled and overlapped Bonds' since seemingly the beginning, from going against each other in the college world series, to their both having that curious late 30s renaissance and rebirth of power -- which we now know the mutual fuel of -- sure seems determined to make sure he goes down with him and take a huge chunk of the blame. But always remember; It's more than just Barry, and it's more than just Roger. They are merely poster boys because they were superstars and hall of fame talents before they started using, and they happen to be the first big stars we've really "caught" and thus it's in our nature to ascribe extra significance to them.

Bonds and Clemens are paying the price of their egos, not their juicing. Read Shakespeare. Tragic Flaw: Arrogance. Clemens keeps walking up and down the forum steps shouting "I didn't do it" and eventually he's gonna get himself stabbed. Bonds, at least, had the sense to lie once and the walk away and start stonewalling. If only he had McGwire's sense to retire quickly and get out of the public eye.

Both Clemens and Bonds, once they go away for a while and stop making noise, we'll start to forget about them, and we'll then start to forgive them. And they will both rightly end up in the Hall of Fame one day. Ten, Fifteen years from now the writers who vote on that sort of thing will have a new outrage to be indignant over, and they'll pine for the good old days when Ol' Barry and Ol' Roger ONLY did steroids.

3) The true scariness of the Mitchell report is that it's only the tip of the iceberg as far as who is using in baseball (hint: way more than you think) and which teams are turning/have turned a blind eye to use while counting the money (hint: all of them, and Selig too. All these juiced up homeruns have been good for the turnstiles and television ratings. That's why they were tolerated, and why the blind eyes were turned.) If Kenny Rogers says he knows of at least 100 more users not in the report, honestly, I bet he does. He won't name names while he's still playing, of course.

4) No, the mediocre players will never stop using. Because for them it's about something infinitely more precious than breaking a career record. It's about the difference between making a major league team (thus a major league salary) and being a career minor leaguer. It's the difference between being able to hang on for a couple more seasons and having to hang 'em up and get a real job.

5) Chipper Jones said it best when he said everybody playing in this era is going to have a question mark over them, "even A-Rod, even me." That's not an accusation, nor is it an admission. It's an acknowledgment that nobody deserves the benefit of the doubt anymore. Someone mentioned Rodriquez or Pujols resetting the home run record when they're all done. Yeah. Maybe. But how sure can we be about them? Looks like Rodriquez was a teammate of Clemens. Looks like Pujols played for the same manager who overlooked McGwire (and Canseco too, back in the day). They both could have had their hookups pretty easily. And Rodriquez looks a lot bigger now than when he was a Mariner.

"But oh no you're talking nonsense they're both all natural freaks of nature, gifted athletes."

Undoubtedly. But don't forget that once up on a time, Barry and Roger were, too. And they turned to the juice anyway.

The lesson I suspect players will learn from Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens isn't "don't use steroids" but "don't be a jerk to people while you're doing steroids. Then people won't want to catch you, and even if they do you can cry and apologize and all will be forgiven." It's hard to imagine someone being worse at playing the PR spin game than Barry has been over the course of his life. I doubt any future user will be foolish or arrogant enough to follow his example. Behold the power of Damage Control, and woe be to ye who cannot exercise it.

On a happier note: Pitchers and Catchers have reported to Spring Training. W00t W00t. It'll be opening day before we know it.

I saw a great documentary about the minor leagues called player to be named later. It follows the Brewers Indinapolis minor league affiliate. Not only is it nice to see people playing for the love of the game and working their hardest to get to the next level, but it seems to capture a lot fo the spirit. It was nice to have some baseball in the middle of the winter. Nice post dido

Great post Dido, I totally agree with you. I think what Giambi did is an excellent counter-example of what you're talking about.

I am sad that Barry and Clemens did what they did, and particularly that they appear to be lying about it, but I still respect both these players and their accomplishments and think they should be in the Hall of Fame, juice or no juice.

Why should they be in the hall of fame? They altered the courses of games and seasons with their drugs. Cheating to win seems just as bad as losing to satisfy gamblers. Sure they had enourmous talent, and Bonds especially would have been in probably without it, but they have to be punished. If baseball won't do it, then the hall of fame should. It's sort of saying it's okay to cheat if you do that.

i think that the most painful thing for us fans is the fact that guys like clemens and bonds would have absolutely made the HoF had they not used the performance enhancers...i'd even venture to say that they'd both have been first ballot. i mean, all of those MVPs in the early to mid 90s for bonds...and the cy youngs for the rocket, the 20 K games, the WS rings...the whole lot. and imho, it's not even too hard to imagine that even if they each retired in, say, 1998 or 1999 (pre-dating the alleged use etc) that they could've got into the HoF. of course, it's very subjective. however, the point is that these guys just got greedy and wanted to deceive not only Father Time or Mother Nature but us, the fans :(

it makes us fans scratch our head and wonder why did they do this :confused:

I personally have mixed feelings about the steroid issue. What first drew me to baseball was the 1998 season (I was eight years old) and the excitement around McGwire's and Sosa's chase for Maris. (Well, and also the Yankee's super season, which was nice, but I deserted them the next year when I found out the Mets existed...)

Part of me says that you can't retroactively punish people for using steroids, and that the only thing they can be charged with is perjury, so the actual use of steroids shouldn't affect me that much. Steroids doesn't feel like cheating to me, but that's probably because I haven't played competitive sports for three years now. What really angered me was Javy Lopez's setting up outside the catcher's box and getting calls that were a foot outside (and I still think the Mets would have beaten the Braves in 1999 if it weren't for that).

But of course, by taking steroids, you're basically forcing the other players to do so too, endangering their health, and all the moral baggage that comes with that...

I just don't know what to think. So far most of the people accused are players I've never liked, so that's a nice little thing.

P.S. Pitchers and catchers have reported~ who's gonna set up the Fantasy League?

Hey El J, What did you think of the prank pulled on Kyle Kendrick? Funny, but
dang... poor guy.

heh, it was hilarious. and hearing Uncle Cholie fleece him was priceless :lol: a great way to counter beltran's ridiculous remarks...

heh, it was hilarious. and hearing Uncle Cholie fleece him was priceless :lol: a great way to counter beltran's ridiculous remarks...

True :lol: , I know my heart rate would have been off the charts. Tickled me
when he asked 'do they have good food in Japan?' Obviously he was a pretty
easy mark.

P.S. Pitchers and catchers have reported~ who's gonna set up the Fantasy League?

Since no one else seems to be jumping on it I'll start a Yahoo! one up. However, what options/draft do you guys want to have?

Don't want to double post, but this is a completely different topic. A sign of good times to come?


JUPITER, Fla. -- Juan Gonzalez can still hit a baseball a very, very long way. That much he showed in batting practice on Tuesday, in his first day wearing a Cardinals uniform. Gonzalez showed up at Cards camp looking trim and strong, and he put on a show in his first workout.

"I feel like a rookie invited to big league camp after two years out of the game," said Gonzalez, whose last appearance in the Majors was a single at-bat with Cleveland in 2005.

"I had rest down in Puerto Rico, continued to work and running and lifting weight. I'm coming back for a big challenge for me. This is opening the door for myself. I'm here working hard, see what happens."

After taking his cuts against BP pitcher Mike Matheny, Gonzalez faced some offerings that were a little bit less in his wheelhouse. He addressed the allegations against him from a 2006 New York Daily News story and his name's subsequent appearance in former Sen. George Mitchell's report on illegal performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

The Mitchell Report didn't actually unearth any new information regarding Gonzalez. Instead, it recapitulated a news report that steroids and hypodermic needles were found in a bag associated with Gonzalez at Toronto's international airport in 2001.

According to the report in the Daily News, Gonzalez averred that the drugs and paraphernalia belonged to members of his entourage. However, his personal trainer at the time, Nao Presinal, is cited in the story as saying that the bag and its contents were all Gonzalez's.

"Just talking about myself, I'm clear," Gonzalez said. "I've never tested positive for all the substances. I'm clear, man. I don't have a problem. I will continue with my head up and try the best inside the lines."

Asked whether he could say he had never used any IPEDs, Gonzalez was emphatic.

"I never used it," Gonzalez said. "You're talking about my trainer, but the trainer in the past, my trainer was training for 15 or 20 more guys. I'm clear."

Gonzalez prefers talking about what lies ahead of him, rather than what's gone on already. He has his sights set on 500 career home runs, which would almost certainly require more than just a one-year comeback. He currently stands at 434 long balls.

First, however, Gonzalez must make the Cardinals roster. He's one of five legitimate contenders for three available outfield spots, along with Skip Schumaker, Ryan Ludwick, Brian Barton and Colby Rasmus. Rick Ankiel and Chris Duncan appear to be locks for the Opening Day roster.

"The fairest way to say it is that he's got an opportunity to make the club," said manager Tony La Russa. "I don't think it makes any sense to rate it or rank it. He's got a shot.

"I've already talked to him, and I know what his mind-set is. He's pleased with this opportunity. He's got a lot of support here. And he needs to show where his game is. This is not about his two MVPs. It's about what he is in 2008."

Gonzalez has at least three advocates in the Cardinals clubhouse. He has been working out at former Major Leaguer Eduardo Perez's baseball academy in Puerto Rico. While he was there, he was seen by Albert Pujols, Yadier Molina and third-base coach Jose Oquendo, all of whom raved about Gonzalez's condition. Perez also advocated on Gonzalez's behalf.

"Obviously he's a guy that's been advertised to me for three months, so I am excited," said general manager John Mozeliak. "If you look at the people that endorsed him, they're all very credible and they were all very impressed with what they saw. So I'm definitely excited to see him with my own eyes."

What everyone saw on Tuesday was encouraging. Gonzalez brought a good attitude, and he showed significant life in his bat. Of course, it won't be a matter of one day. It's how he holds up over the course of the spring, and throughout the season.

In 2005, Gonzalez worked for a comeback from injury, then played one game with Cleveland before blowing out his hamstring tendon. Health is a major issue for him.

"I'm 38, but I have experience and I have the ability," he said. "I never stopped working. I continued working hard in Puerto Rico. The thing is, when you stay positive, your head up and you have in your heart that things are, nothing is impossible. I'm positive. I'm trying to make a great team like the Cardinals organization."

If he can return to even slightly below his MVP quality he'd still be pretty formidable. Plus I like the idea of seeing a Pujols (30-40 hr), Ankiel (20-30 hr), Duncan (20-30 hr), Glaus (20-30 hr), and Gonzalez (20-30 hr) lineup.

The numbers in parenthesis, injuries aside, is probably a fair ran