Not surprisingly, the warmongering Barbarian came out top in this game, with four Conquest victories at the top of the leader-board followed by six Domination wins. One more team went the whole nine yards and pulled out a Time victory. Three teams allowed the civilised world to launch Spaceships, and only one didn't make the deadline.

The Gold Laurels go to CFR with an incredible 575 AD Conquest victory. Murky Waters and CRC followed up for Silver and Bronze in 1112 AD and 1202 AD. Murky Waters also made a point of minimising their points score and, as a result, they take home the Wooden Spoons as well!

The names engraved on this game's awards are therefore:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/civgoldlaurel5.pngCFR, 575 AD Conquest Victory
Balbes
bulkins
Cat Behemoth
Dynamic
IL2T
Obormot


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/civsilverlaurel5.pnghttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/civwoodenspoon5.png
Murky Waters, 1112 AD Conquest Victory
Big Pig
Erkon
Gnejs
jesusin
klarius
LowtherCastle
Mîtiu Ioan
Murky

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/civbronzelaurel5.pngCRC, 1202 AD Conquest Victory
agnik
Gosha190
Grey Cardinal
Jeffa
kaiser
Lexad
Morcar
Murick


Please join me to congratulate everyone who played.

Full results, details of teams, names, dates and scores, and lots more statistical and event log goodies are available here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)

Congratulations to the awarded teams :goodjob:, the teams who finished and the teams who played this SGOTM !!

And congratulation to the SGOTM team (AlanH, Gyathaar) for proposing us a great opportunity to gather, learn, fight and have fun :king:

Unkle (getting his Civ skills ready for next SGOTM :D, Smurkz will do definitely better than 5th this time ;) )

Congratulations to all!

Oooooh! Murky Waters grabs two prizes!!! :crazyeye:
:goodjob:


Rules of Gameplay (Mandatory)
...
4. Teams that have played together previously may stay together if they so wish. However, teams that have won Three laurels may be broken up automatically.

How about CFR team in next SGOTM?

Go on deserved holiday!? :old:

It only says "may" :)

If you examine the team lists, you will find that, while leading team names remain the same, a lot of the player names change from game to game. This says a lot about the strength in depth of the player group from that part of the world.

If you want to go on a holiday for the next game, that is your choice. :)

Congrats to all the winning teams and special thanks to the staff!

We finished in the top 10 :p

By the way, what's up with the GNP, food/turn and production/turn graphs?

Great job on a tough map! I hope to continue to learn from you guys :hatsoff:

bah, a wooden spoon and a silver laurel in the same game... you must have cheated. :lol:

Well, grats to the winners, at least we won the game and we're in the top ten :sad:

Now we are eagerly awaiting the next SG, i feel a bit lonely without my team.
I think it's the first time an SG finishes without a new one not even announced.

Congratulations to the award winners and a special thanks to the teams that upped the speed so that this competition could finish according to deadline :goodjob:.

And thanks to the organizers for another great innovative game setup :thumbsup:.

It only says "may" :)

If you examine the team lists, you will find that, while leading team names remain the same, a lot of the player names change from game to game. This says a lot about the strength in depth of the player group from that part of the world.

If you want to go on a holiday for the next game, that is your choice. :)

How can the Misfits recruit a couple high level players? The team spoke about it a bit, and we really ended up playing with four people, but we didn't make maps or lay out enough strategy... We agreed we'd like to stay together, so maybe you can help us find a mentor or two? :)

Woo, fastest domination, always something! :banana:

Congratulations to the top teams, very solid performances! And commiserations to One Short Straw who seems to have missed the bronze by a single turn! :eek:

Some of those results are outstanding. Well played.

Congratulations to all the laurel winners. :goodjob: CFR certainly showed their class in winning so convincingly, not to mention a very informative thread.

Thanks as always to the SGOTM team in setting up and managing this competition. :king:

Full results, details of teams, names, dates and scores, and lots more statistical and event log goodies are available here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)

A number of the stats from GNP onwards seem to have zero values. :(

By the way, what's up with the GNP, food/turn and production/turn graphs?

Hmm! Someone changed a tag in the file parser. I'll re-scan the files and update the database ... Real Soon Now (TM)

Congratulations again and thank you for the game!

Congratulations on some very speedy dates! :eek:

And a special thanks to the staff for their continued excellent support. :thanx:

Oooooh! Murky Waters grabs two prizes!!! :crazyeye:
:goodjob: Hey! We deserved it...(...wooden spoon, that is...)

How about CFR team in next SGOTM?What? Now you're threatening to MUTATE again? Lord have mercy... :bowdown:

Congratulations to all fellow barabas!

Thanks Admins for all past, present and future SGs! (hint hint)

I'll re-scan the files and update the database ... Real Soon Now (TM)

Done that ...

Well done to the winners and a big thank you to the organisers.

We didn't win the trifecta of wooden spoons. :D

We didn't win the trifecta of wooden spoons. :D
There's always next SGOTM :lol:

Congratulations to all the laurel (and wooden spoon?) winners!

Congrats to winners! Thanks to stuff!

OSS played good game and finished just few turns past CRC. So congrats to OSS also!

I see now why LtC warried about wooden spoon recently! :D

Ohhh... those Russians ;)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/07.jpg
I was perplexed by your score graphs from the start. Really well played, laurel winners (and OSS) :thumbsup: and everyone who finished :hatsoff: (except for Murky Waters, who were just too greedy :mischief: )

Now we are eagerly awaiting the next SG, i feel a bit lonely without my team.
Argh... BLubmuz is getting needy. Quick, start another one! :run:

Lastly, thanks, and applause, to the SGOTM staff; you guys work hard, and we really appreciate it.:clap: :worship:

Thanks to the staff for a wonderful game setup.
We have had a great time!

Our teammate's kaizer's laurels have turned out split with kaiser (total 2 golden - SGOTM 3vanilla and 4 - and bronze for the recent). Thanx in advance!

Fixed. He is now kaizer for all games.

Congratulations to the teams on the podium, and thanks to AlanH and Gyathaar for running the game.

See you for the next SGOTM!

Congratulations to all winners, finishers, and a big :thanx: to the staff for their tireless efforts! :band:

Fixed. He is now kaizer for all games.

Thank you!

Well done to the winners and all who competed.

I had fun watching the game from the sidelines.

I am inspired right now to join a team for the next SGOTM. :cool:

Well done to the winners and all who competed.

I had fun watching the game from the sidelines.

I am inspired right now to join a team for the next SGOTM. :cool:

Are you really good? Misfits could use you! :D

Congrats to the winners :bowdown: And thanks to Alan and Gyathaar for the game!

I can't wait till the next SGOTM! Any idea when Gyathaar will be back from his holiday, Alan?

I don't think Gyathaar's still on holiday, but he's very busy at work, I believe. There's also the small matter of a BtS HoF Mod to be worked on.

I don't think Gyathaar's still on holiday, but he's very busy at work, I believe. There's also the small matter of a BtS HoF Mod to be worked on.

Does that mean SGOTM6 will be BtS? Excellent news if so!

Well, initially, there seems to be a small demand for a BoTM, so it's required for that.

How would you all fancy a BtS SGOTM?

How would you all fancy a BtS SGOTM?

AlanH, I'd love that, but I would rather get another Vanilla (or Warlords) SGOTM if playing BtS means waiting :D (plus BtS HoF Mod still have its own issues with last patch).

Plus I am not sure we have enough players in BtS. A BOTM first would allow us to know... Or a poll ?

How would you all fancy a BtS SGOTM?

I personally would quite like the idea. However I don't know how many of the Geezers team have BTS.

Given that there seem to have been a number of hiccups with BTS 3.13 what is the likelihood that there will be a further BTS patch whilst the SGOTM is in progress? Perhaps it might be better to have a Warlords SGOTM instead or are we likely to have problems with locked assets?

a BtS game can be interesting, but i'm afraid it's not so diffused yet.

I guess it will be wiser to start a Warlords game, both for the possible patch problems and for the people not owning BtS yet.

In case we can (if this is not too hard for the Staff) run a new BtS game in strong overlap with next one.

Assuming the sign-up thread will start in few days :please: , the BtS SG can start in 2 months or so.

Given that there seem to have been a number of hiccups with BTS 3.13 what is the likelihood that there will be a further BTS patch whilst the SGOTM is in progress? Perhaps it might be better to have a Warlords SGOTM instead or are we likely to have problems with locked assets?

Those are both valid points.

The locked assets one is particularly annoying, as it would be relatively simple to fix. But we don't seem to have any response yet from Firaxis about whether we can, or they will, distribute the changed vanilla/Warlords assets so that everyone can be on the same versions.

Plus I am not sure we have enough players in BtS.
I agree, that's also an issue.

SBOTM will be sweet.

Plus I am not sure we have enough players in BtS. A BOTM first would allow us to know... Or a poll ?
Wise words. A poll is the best idea. I, for example, don't have BTS.

I would vote for a SWOTM while the Bts stuff gets sorted out over the next couple months.

.. If we run a Warlords game, would you want it to be locked to the pre-BtS version of Warlords, or the post-BtS version?

.. If we run a Warlords game, would you want it to be locked to the pre-BtS version of Warlords, or the post-BtS version?
Post - for all of us that patch the game with BTS, I doubt everyone as a dual-install of Warlords.


I agree with everyone else that BTS should have another patch. 3.13 seems to have broken a few things during the all of the fixes...

an old misery standpoint:
OK... SGOTM, SWOTM, SBOTM... in parallel! Each player (team) will be able to get it's own laurel competing with him own. Besides that, BTS is row in some senses.. I think we must speak about SBOTM after one or two BOTM will be finished.

Post - for all of us that patch the game with BTS, I doubt everyone as a dual-install of Warlords.


And what about all those who have not yet bought BtS?

OK... SGOTM, SWOTM, SBOTM... in parallel!
I hope that's a joke. Developing one new map is proving hard enough. And you want three? :eek:

And what about all those who have not yet bought BtS?

As understand it the latest Warlords patch is available standalone.

And what about all those who have not yet bought BtS?

Argh :cry: !!!
I think we cannot afford to loose these players. So if I understand you correctly:

either we have a SGOTM/SWOTM pre-BtS patch, requiring dual install for us who have BtS
either we have a SGOTM/SWOTM post-BtS patch, excluding players without BtS


Am I correct ?

If that's the case, then since most players with BtS will be patching sooner or later AND get a dual setup to play GOTM/WOTM, seems like first option is better. Right ?

I am not interested in dual installing. What a drama. I am going unpatched until this is sorted out.

Argh :cry: !!!
I think we cannot afford to loose these players. So if I understand you correctly:

either we have a SGOTM/SWOTM pre-BtS patch, requiring dual install for us who have BtS
either we have a SGOTM/SWOTM post-BtS patch, excluding players without BtS


Am I correct ?

If that's the case, then since most players with BtS will be patching sooner or later AND get a dual setup to play GOTM/WOTM, seems like first option is better. Right ?

It's worse than that. Some people don't have the pre-BtS versions at all if they bought from Steam or the Gold or Complete versions. So they don't have a dual-install option.

However ...

Hot off the presses, I *believe* we have been advised by someone at Firaxis that we can distribute the post-BtS .dll files. This would mean that people without the BtS upgrade can update their installations so that we can use post-BtS start files for our games in future.

Watch this space.

I think we should use the version that we currently use for the GOTM or WOTM in order to keep consistency.

I hope that's a joke.
You are right! :D

I do not want double installation. So I'm for SWOTM based on 2.13 patch.

I'm HOF gauntlet player currently. Hm.. Both russian civ sites develop BTS competition so I cann't play somewhere else HOF gauntlets :(

I think we should use the version that we currently use for the GOTM or WOTM in order to keep consistency.

Of course. And if it is confirmed that we can distribute the post-BtS Assets then that will be done across all competitions - xOTM and HoF.

I think we should use the version that we currently use for the GOTM or WOTM in order to keep consistency.

exactly! +1!

PS as I said before: SBOTM must be played after some BOTM passed, imho :)

Of course. And if it is confirmed that we can distribute the post-BtS Assets then that will be done across all competitions - xOTM and HoF.

AlanH these are grrrreat news :)

Does it means we should see soon a HoF release ;) :D ?

Does it means we should see soon a HoF release
That depends on the same busy resource that I'm in the queue for before I can start a new SGOTM :)

Take your time, Gyathaar. We can't wait, but we can wait. :goodjob:

I vote for Warlords SG next.

Let me see if i got it:
- a new SG can't start before the new HoF mods will be ready
- probably if you can distribute the assets varied by the 3.13 patch our life will be simpler (in terms of CIV)
- when i write Hof mods i mean not only the 3.13. but the 2.xx.001 and the 1.xx.001, to deal with the new assets.

Since a new game can't be annouced with map and so on, but we got a good number of players awaiting, is possible to start the sign-up thread with minimum news about the next SG (probably a warlords one) to save some week?

Eventually, a "normal" game can be easier to start?

Not quite ...

- The existing mods don't need to be changed to work with the modified assets. The start file simply needs to be built to lock into those assets plus the existing mod, instead of to the old assets.

- The only requirement for a new HoF Mod is for BtS, for use in HoF and BOTMs/SBOTMs.

- We need a way to distribute the modified assets. I tend to assume just posting a zip file and telling players where to put its contents will generate support problems, so we may need a user-friendly installer to place the files correctly. That could be done either by incorporating them into the HoF Mod installers, or by creating a separate installer. This discussion is under way with the HoF team.

Based on all the above, I agree the most likely next game will be Warlords. But I don't really want to start a sign-up thread if I haven't got sight of a game for you to play or a timetable for its arrival.

Thanks for the hard work and support Alan.

I'll be keen on a Warlords succession game coming up in the near future...

Personally, I'd love a BTS succession game, and I'd definitely sign up. However, if it can't be done for a while then it really does make sense to do one more in Vanilla or Warlords first... and I say that even though personally I probably wouldn't take part.

I have to agree in the fact that its no point in having a SBOTM yet, however the idea of moving to warlords for one or two games is a bit of a hassle for all involved no? when everyone is already setup for SGOTM? I know i just uninstalled warlords and did a complete reinstall to make room for a mod, dun make me undo all that = /

Warlords seems natural as we have been alternating. However, there is no direct reason to tie a new game to old behavior (thank goodness for the GK's after our last showing). I'm sure most of us just love the chance to play some cool variations, and really appreciate all the hard work the crew here at CFC does for the community. Hopefully Firaxis will allow for "ease" of use, and permit or provide the files necessary to bring ALL versions up to date!

.. If we run a Warlords game, would you want it to be locked to the pre-BtS version of Warlords, or the post-BtS version?I have not yet installed the BtS mod, so I can run vanilla and warlords as before. I would prefer to keep it that way until the BtS thing is formally resolved, because that way I have no problems running GOTM, SGOTM, and HOF games.

I don't think locking into BtS makes sense until it gets rid of all its childhood diseases, but I guess it boils down to who should have to have duel installs? Or which would require more people to have duel installs?

My previous post on this subject indicated that we believe we should be able to distribute a patch to bring *everyone* into line with the latest variants of vanilla and Warlords that have been created as a result of Steam, Gold, Complete, BtS upgrades .... whatever. As far as I know, it will just install the latest versions of the Firaxis CvGameCoreDLL.dll files and a couple of xml files that had their dates changed in BtS.

That would mean we can move to vanilla or Warlords start files locked to the newest versions and everyone will be able to play them.

So we are waiting on "official" word from Firaxis, and the time constraints of the mod builders. Hopefully it all gets worked out in a timely fashion and the next game can begin!

While we are eagerly anticipating the succession game, can I be so forward as to air an opinion on a setting for the next SGOTM?

Originally proposed by Balbes
Here's what I think can be an interesting setting for a future SGOTM: Continents, Always War, Cannot Build Galleons.

I think this is a great idea.

I think that every VC will fall roughly into the same timeframe, now that you can't take over the world with medieval troops and have to tech to transports, and the teams will need to demonstrate deep understanding of all the victory conditions in order to select the quickest one.


From this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6132038

While we are eagerly anticipating the succession game, can I be so forward as to air an opinion on a setting for the next SGOTM?

Originally proposed by Balbes

I think this is a great idea.[/url]I subcribe it! :goodjob:
Well, almost. Not sure about always war, but the continents/galleons thing is VERY interesting. Perhaps instead of AW, permanent alliances enabled?

"Always War" is important so that the AIs will build up their armies. (See GOTM22 (Rome) for a recent experience.) therwise, Dom/Con would still be the fastest victory condition by far as the human team would just overrun everything with modern troops immediately upon reaching transports. In low-tech wars, the relatively low power of the available units results in somewhat slower wars; with modern units, the disparity in skill between a human and the AI is multiplied and the war is quick and brutal.

"Always War" is important so that the AIs will build up their armies. (See GOTM22 (Rome) for a recent experience.) therwise, Dom/Con would still be the fastest victory condition by far as the human team would just overrun everything with modern troops immediately upon reaching transports.

Interesting point although the AI, especially the more aggressive, is still free to build galleons to settle your land and/or attack. But no doubt this was part of your thinking.

Yes, maintaining a meaningful navy (frigates/ironclads) might actually be useful.

Jimmy Thunder, I think you forgot something:(Oh, and Immortal difficulty would be nice.)Maybe instead of Immortal level we should try something that Gosha190 and Dynamic are comfortable with:1.Which level (noble, monarch, etc.) are you comfortable playing in a solo game?

I agree with Gosha... Settler is very comfortable level... :)1) settler
2) no
3) yes
4) crc

Wow! I am almost a living classic - my posts are quoted!

I suggest to look at the real circumstances: experience of sgotm teams significantly differs, so immortal can be beyond strength for insufficient experienced teams. I got an idea: we'll ask Gyathaar for 2 level for sgotm: monarch and immortal. So each team can choose at which level it want to play.

So each team can choose at which level it want to play.

Arrrrgh! What colours would you suggest we use for the laurels for each set of winners? Who gets the wooden cooking utensils, and should we also include "plastic" ones?

Wow! I am almost a living classic - my posts are quoted!


And it goes on :p

I suggest to look at the real circumstances: experience of sgotm teams significantly differs, so immortal can be beyond strength for insufficient experienced teams. I got an idea: we'll ask Gyathaar for 2 level for sgotm: monarch and immortal. So each team can choose at which level it want to play.

Doubtful. I'd rather attempt a team immortal game, even if I am really struggling at this level... On the other hand, struggling on a game was not a nice experience in SGOTM4, since we lost interest pretty fast due to our obvious near loss :blush: Since AW would probably already increase the level of the game, Emperor might be fine....

Arrrrgh! What colours would you suggest we use for the laurels for each set of winners? Who gets the wooden cooking utensils, and should we also include "plastic" ones?Unlax! It's like the challenger and contender versions of GOTM. Both contend for the same awards. Balbes wants immortal. He can have it... :lol: ANyway, looking at the HOF charts, there's no guarantee that monarch is faster than immortal, if you're going for a cultural victory, for example.

Jimmy Thunder, I think you forgot something:
Originally Posted by Balbes
(Oh, and Immortal difficulty would be nice.)

Yep, I left that out on purpose. ;)

I think that monarch would be best if it is AW setting with other AI on the home continent.

considering the scale of the SGOTM is slightly different than that of the GOTM, 10-15 teams rather than 150 players, it doesn't make sense to me, to ramp up the difficulty from Monarch, which seems to be the median comfort zone, to Emperor or Immortal, where it is likely that half or more of the teams would lose(especially when 1 out of the 5 SGOTMs has had only 3 teams out of 14 actually succeed)

Arrrrgh! What colours would you suggest we use for the laurels for each set of winners? Who gets the wooden cooking utensils, and should we also include "plastic" ones?
:joke:
if we will use 32K color settings we should not have any problems with color!


LowtherCastle wrote exactly I was thinking about! :thumbsup:

I think that AW raises 1-2 levels the game.
Monarch can be too much, unless we have a good start with all the initial resources at hand, and reasonably far from the civs in our same landmass (see GotM 22).
Again, this is a competition between teams, if the difficulty is easy (or less difficult) all start with the same chances, but mid-level teams can have more fun, and since this is a game i think this must be considered.
Of course the top players will - perhaps - have less fun, but i think that also at settler level they can be challenged for a lightspeed victory (see HoF gauntlets).

aye in last sgotm a few teams didnt manage a win on monarch with barbs on team, so i think its the best suited difficulty for the competition as is, though tougher challenges are unavoidable at times to keep things interesting :)

From a community viewpoint, I would rather see a larger number of contesting teams than a higher difficulty level. SGOTM5 indicated that the playing style and skill level of the combatants differ a lot (no offense intended). Enough teams managed to win, and some teams had to struggle to do so. It's inevitable that there will be a large spread of finish years, and this span could be reduced with separate difficulty levels, but not necessary. Certain maps will be faster to complete on emperor than on monarch for example. Thus, I don't think separate difficulty levels will make it more "even".

Personally, I would prefer exotic victory metrics. Such as:

o) Earliest win while building at least 10 world builders wonders.
o) Earliest win with at least "pleased" on average of relations with AIs.
o) Earliest win without Galleons as previously suggested.

Such expanded victory conditions would lead to more varied gameplay and strategies compared to the last two succession games, where there was not much variations between the laurel winners.

I think Monarch is the correct difficulty level. It's difficult enough so that you have to carefully consider strategy (and maybe even learn something) yet not so difficult as to be ridiculously frustrating or scare lower level players out of the game.

Even though my team has yet to snag a laurel (and even got the spoons once), I like the way the game is being run.

Remember also that SGOTM usually end up being harder than a single player game (for a good player) because of the diversity, handovers, and communication issues that can occur. A really good player would probably always beat most teams, simply because a single player should find it easier to stay focussed.

This has not necessarily been my experience. As I think we all saw in the CFR thread, the interchange of ideas and the ability of teams to take ideas from each other and weave that into a strategy often brings the team to a higher level of play collectively. This also goes for tactics and logistics. The ability to listen and integrate is as important to team play as is knowledge of the game, imho. ;)

Of course, with the Geezers trying WOTM3 right now, you'll have some very limited data for comparison.

Personally, I would prefer exotic victory metrics. Such as:

o) Earliest win while building at least 10 world builders.
o) Earliest win with at least "pleased" on average of relations with AIs.
o) Earliest win without Galleons as previously suggested.


Very good point !! :goodjob:

o) Earliest win while building at least 10 world builders.a part this typo - i suppose Erkon meant "wonders" not "builder", i agree with him, he well developed what i posted.
A good starting location (not for the capital only, but for the first 2-3 cities) can lower the difficulty, as the AW surely raises it.

Combining both can be balancing.
Just think if in GotM 22 Rome would have had copper, iron, ivory, gold and a food resource in a P hill fatcross. I'm sure enough players would have won, or at least did a lot better.

I don't think separate difficulty levels will make it more "even".Balbes is talking about making VCs even, not the competition. I'm not suggesting different difficulty levels to make the competition even either, but to make it fun for players of all skill levels. If immortal means CFR finishes 5 turns sooner or later, it only means they win by 95 or 105 turns. Plus, it would be interesting to see if Balbes will walk the walk and take up the challenge.

As far as individual preferences for game-type are concerned, my preference is for Gyathaar to ignore the whole lot of you and do what he does best--cool, original scenarios.

Congratulations to all the teams.

I was directed to CFRs SGOTM 2 thread by a post in another thread, and read both that and their thread on this SGOTM.

These threads have shown me just how little analysis I do on my game, although I still win Monarch level games, it is a lot later than it seems I should.

I'd certainly be interested in signing up for the next SGOTM.

As I think we all saw in the CFR thread, the interchange of ideas and the ability of teams to take ideas from each other and weave that into a strategy often brings the team to a higher level of play collectively.

That's not what I saw in the CFR thread.

That's not what I saw in the CFR thread.The exception makes the rule?

The exception makes the rule? Every rule has an exception, except this one ..... :crazyeye:

dV

So... is the SGOTM a dead horse at this point?

If the other versions have issues, run vanilla again. That's my vote.