I've been playing since Civ I, and I like to consider myself a decent player. I haven't played Civ IV religiously, though I'm able to win around 80% of the time on Prince - but still looking for my first Monarch win. I've only tried a few times.

I'm not an agressive player. Often, I'll only attack when someone attacks me. I love to win diplomatically or through the space race, but I've been turning space race victory off in Prince games because it was too easy for me. I usually only win militarily if someone really pisses me off.

Anyway, with that in mind, I present my current game:

Warlords - Monarch - Standard - Epic - No Space Race - No Time Limit

I have lost 3 scouts, so that pissed me off and explains the poor exploration. I expanded fairly quickly south, to block off other civs and because those sites seemed by far the best anyway. I've got a barracks in each city, and a monument in Sparta. Decent crop of Phalanx.

Please, take a look and let me know what you think, where I'm lagging, what I might have done wrong so far or what you would have done differently.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/sbrylski06/north.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/sbrylski06/central.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/sbrylski06/south.jpg

Also, I just produced a settler in Athens. Where would you recommend placement of my next city? I have some ideas, but I can't decide what would be best.

Let me know if you need more info.

I should also say I've generally done things my own way, as in I've haven't looked up strategies much online.

Your pics looked messed up on my screen, don't know if thats my browser or what.

On a general note, I'd concentrate your early workers on improving the land surrounding your cities before hooking up all the cities together. That means more mines, towns, and/or farms. In your SS it seems all your cities are connected, but you only improved the resources.

And as far as improving your tiles goes, if you're not familiar with SE (specialist economy) strategy (or the myriad of other ways to run an economy in this incarnation of Civ) a safe and effective strat is to build as many cottages as you can work, and keep working them so they become towns as quickly as possible. (And remember that emancipation makes towns grow quicker, but we're making baby steps here ;) ).

If you're really into micromanaging stuff, I remember reading in a thread a long time ago (the original catherine cottage spam thread I believe) that its more effective to grow your cottages to hamlets and then move the citizen working that hamlet to a new, unworked cottage, until all the cottages are hamlets, and then keep doing that with villages and so on. Not sure if that is actually more effective or not but I do it on occasion and it's something to keep in the back of your mind...

Also, try to have at least one city that has good production early, which means food and a few hills, the more the merrier.

This is all very generalized advice BTW. And welcome to the forums.

I remember reading in a thread a long time ago (the original catherine cottage spam thread I believe) that its more effective to grow your cottages to hamlets and then move the citizen working that hamlet to a new, unworked cottage, until all the cottages are hamlets, and then keep doing that with villages and so on.
.

I honestly can't perceive it as being much better. At normal speed, you pay a cost of 10 gp if you move off of hamlet to and work a cottage.


You definitely gain some gold in the end if you build up you focus on building your economic base, rather than go for max profit.
But is building up the cottages faster worth all these temporary losses? Maximizing commerce early game can be very important. 1 extra commerce in turn 40 is worth more than 1 extra commerce in turn 60.

On a general note, I'd concentrate your early workers on improving the land surrounding your cities before hooking up all the cities together. That means more mines, towns, and/or farms. In your SS it seems all your cities are connected, but you only improved the resources.

And as far as improving your tiles goes, if you're not familiar with SE (specialist economy) strategy (or the myriad of other ways to run an economy in this incarnation of Civ) a safe and effective strat is to build as many cottages as you can work, and keep working them so they become towns as quickly as possible. (And remember that emancipation makes towns grow quicker, but we're making baby steps here ;) ).

Fair point. I do usually try to build many cottages and specialized my cities to an extent. I usually improve resources first, because won't that give me max benefit from my workers time? Connected, because I wanted to churn out some Phalanx's early. I've lost some recent early wars and didn't want it to happen again.

I suggest asking more specific questions, and posting save games.

Fair point. I do usually try to build many cottages and specialized my cities to an extent. I usually improve resources first, because won't that give me max benefit from my workers time?

You are right, improving resources first is a good general idea. Not always, but generally. Nonetheless, you still need to improve other things. Mines, for example. Your shot only shows two mines, both in your capital, yet you have four cities and its about 800BC.

Connected, because I wanted to churn out some Phalanx's early. I've lost some recent early wars and didn't want it to happen again.

It looks like all your cities are on the coast and would be connected via seafaring. At least the two on the western coast.

Granted you want to connect your cities to the copper, but connected cities are only as good as their tiles, i.e. they need hammers and gold to build the units quicker and then support them.

I guess your problem, (at least from the cursory review I can make from those screenshots) may be not enough workers to work your cities. Two workers for four cities at 880BC is not enough. A good goal would be for every city to have a worker at this point working its tiles. Otherwise those cities are just costing you maintenance. On your shots I only see 1 or two workers. I generally try to have at least 1 worker per city, or at least one worker working per city with unimproved tiles. At the very least, have your one worker improve a few tiles, connect the city to another city, build a farm and a mine, move on the next city, etc. At least some improvement for your cities to use before connecting them.

Something I do occasionally: first build is worker-worker-settler. First worker chops the second, both workers chop the settler. Send that settler out with your warrior or scout and one worker, and be careful for animals. (Another ancient thread said that you get a settler out quicker by building two workers and then chopping the settler than you would by waiting to get to pop 2, but this might have changed with all the nerfs to chopping. Regardless, its a good way to get two workers and a settler quickly.)

Use the worker who you sent off with your settler to chop another worker once that 2nd city is founded, and when that city sends out its settler, take one of these workers with it as well. Repeat. Keep doing this until you can't expand any further. If there are enough forests and you also keep an eye out for barbs, its a good way to expand early. At the very least you always have a worker for each city.

There's not enough forests to chop rush a lot of settlers. You managed to block off the AI from your peninsula, so you're in a good position expansion-wise.
You'll need iron working at some point, particularly for the gems, but you can probably trade for it. Calendar will be important later for happiness, food, and commerce. You can usually trade for calendar, just have settlers and workers ready by then.

You could try to squeeze a settler on the plain hill near hannibal/cyrus to the SE to grab the gem and both elephants (but the city is too close). There might be something to grab in the SW. If you can build a galley out of sparta, you can grab the fish and rice to the SE past hannibal's new city.

You need economy. For high food sites (like the fish to the right), you can grow to 6 and whip a library. For low food sites (like most of your map), cottages. I would recommend CE because a SE would tend to lead to a low science bar and minimize the advantage of dyes and gems.

Everything I've heard makes perfect sense so far. I gradually expanded, but did find myself lagging behind the AI yet, particularly economically. It hit a low point when my GNP was half that of the next lowest civ. It was at that point I just churned out a bunch of workers. I had just 3 or 4 workers, now I have 11 workers for 11 cities. I just recently moved into 1st place in GNP (thanks in part to the Spiral Minaret).

Just as I was about done expanding throught my own penninsula, I took notice how weak the Carthaginian army was and how Utica had better potential to be a production city than any of my current ones. It didn't take too long to over take his just three cities.

So here's where I'm at now, isolating the area where I'd like some input/critique:

http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/33891/2001350112179418712_rs.jpg


Carthage has been a great GP farm. Pretty much single handedly caught me up in technology, bulbing and trading. I've got the city working just the clam and fish tiles, the rest are scientists. (I do need another work boat out there, just noticed that.)

In the east there, Corinth is one of my better financial cities.

Utica, in the middle, I feel has the potential to be a good production city, but its not there yet. I'm replacing the windmills with mines, which will help, correct? What else should I do there?

And then, is there anything else I could do to make Carthage a better GP farm or Corinth a better financial city?

I know for one, Corinth probably shouldn't be building a Theater. I guess I'm more looking for help on the land improvements rather than the buildings, and specialist recommendations for the GP farm.

Thoughts?

(Check out the score! I usually fall behind early in Monarch games, and I have never caught up before... I'm happy.)

It hit a low point when my GNP was half that of the next lowest civ. It was at that point I just churned out a bunch of workers. I had just 3 or 4 workers, now I have 11 workers for 11 cities. I just recently moved into 1st place in GNP

Now think of how your growth curve would have looked like if you had built enough workers in the early game. Worker management is one of the human advantages.
Now, if your economy is strong enough, keep expanding :trouble:

I'd keep utica as a commerce city, as you can get gold for it (it could go either way). Cottage the plain farm SSE of corinth.

Your commerce is a little low for this much later, should be better than 60% with a lot of developed cities.

I think you should've expanded more early and probably attacked Hannibal earlier.

1) Try and expand as much as possible without letting your science slider drop too far below 50%; prioritize techs like currency/col

2) Make sure your cities have food specials for growth and that you improve all special resources within the BFC first followed by specialized improvements (cottages or farms/mines).

3) You don't have to be prioritizing a military victory to benefit from a little bit of warfare. Taking out one rival gives you the land/power necessary to move toward whichever victory condition. To win by diplo you need votes, which means population, which means many large cities.

4) The sooner you get things done the more impact they will have. Taking out Hannibal ca. 800AD is going to be more beneficial for you than taking him out 500 years later.

I think you should've expanded more early and probably attacked Hannibal earlier.

That's what I'm starting to gather as well. In this case, I couldn't expand because my economy sucked, due mostly to lack of workers. Hannibal I could have attacked a little earlier, but I was concentrating my efforts on expanding through my own peninsula first. (Trying to expand quickly without a developed economy is like trying to walk through quicksand...)

1) Try and expand as much as possible without letting your science slider drop too far below 50%; prioritize techs like currency/col

2) Make sure your cities have food specials for growth and that you improve all special resources within the BFC first followed by specialized improvements (cottages or farms/mines).

3) You don't have to be prioritizing a military victory to benefit from a little bit of warfare. Taking out one rival gives you the land/power necessary to move toward whichever victory condition. To win by diplo you need votes, which means population, which means many large cities.

4) The sooner you get things done the more impact they will have. Taking out Hannibal ca. 800AD is going to be more beneficial for you than taking him out 500 years later.

These are all great tips, what I was looking for.

Thanks everybody, I think we covered my main problem. I could get away with it on Prince and still scrape out victories - but not Monarch.