Welcome to my third RPC game, Chivalrous Washington!! I initially intended to have a more serious game touting Washington's historic character and the American Civilization. I say bah with that, and came up with a more entertaining idea.

The ultimate goal is to win a diplomatic victory, although other types may be accepted and some impossible as you will see below.

Now Washington is the father of our country (if your American that is), noted for leading a ragtag colonial army against the mighty English Empire, single handedly being responsible for disassembling that victoious army, presiding over the Continental Congress, being the first president, and most importantly stepping down from that position at the right time. For these reasons he is one of the most admired people in history for me, and the best president of the US!!

I also must say I am distantly related to him, or should I say related by marraige. Apparently there are some well founded rumors in my wife's family that old GW's family were ancesters of some of my wife's father's family. Probably some truth although we have no evidence, still I am proud to tell anyone listening (everyone still listening) that my children are related to Washington.

Now regarding this RPC game. One of the common, and less publicized aspects of Washington is that "He slept here, and he slept everywhere". Rumor has it old GW was a ladies man. I live on Long Island, NY and there is still an old Inn where he visited and slept after the Revolutionary war to honor Mr. Ungerdunk who helped out GW with information (rather difficult at the time since all of NY was in the English hands). Old George was also a noble man (at least when out in public). So where is this going?

Like I said before I plan win diplomatically, but with a twist using Washington's ladies man approach, his nobel character, and his ability to fight.

Game conditions:
Monarch
Marathon speed
Big/Little standard size map
Permanent Alliances are turned


8 AIs, preselected


The Ladies (Who's honor must be defended):
Isabella
Boudica
Elizabeth
Hatshepsut
Catherine

The rivals (Stronge leaders in history who took what they wanted):
Alexander
Napolean
Julius Caesar

Goal:

Diplomatic Victory via UN (Grade A)
Culture Win (Grade B)
Time win (Grade C)
SpaceSHip win (Grade C)
Domination/Conquest/AP diplo (F)

Rules

1) Chivalrous George will not attack any of the ladies. In fact if one or more declares war on him he will fight a defensive battle and NEVER send tropps into the fair lady's cultural border. HE will sue for peace as soon as possible.
2) If any of the ladies are attacked by one of Washington's hated rivals he must attack that rival to defend the lady's honor.
3) Washington has a distrust and hatred of his 2 male rivals but if they are at peace with the ladies, he will be friendly to maintain the peace.
4) GW cannot refuse any request from one of the fair ladies, except to stop trading with or declare war on another lady.
5) If two of the ladies get into a catfight, he must stay out of it and try to arrange peace.
6) Washington would never vassal any lady. He will not allow a lady to be vassaled to a rival through war (he shall continue the war until she is freed. If a lady vassals to a rival peacefully, that is her affair. If a lady vassals to another lady via war, it is her affair.
7) All civic and gameplay styles are in play, as long as they do not violate the above 6 rules.

So there you have it, old Chivalrous George's goal. This should be a good game to see if we can get a dilomatic win from the get go, with a backup plan of a late game (perhaps corporation driven) cultural win.

Any idea's, suggestions, or requests for Rivals are encouraged and appreciated.

I'll post the start tonight and start playing next week.

Chivalrous Washington: Start

Here is our start.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWStart0000.jpg

Alright, where do we settle?

With the aspect of "ladies' men", you should consider putting Louis in, he did a lot of "sleeping around", didn't he? And then you have the Arabs and the Ottomans; harems!
Or, since you have an egyptian queen in there, maybe one of the Caesars? For some reason, Julle springs to mind. ;)
I know next to nothing about Alex and Qin "ladywise", but I've always been under the impression that war itself was their mistress, and woman had perhaps a tiny place in a dark corner? I saw one "documentary" (don't know if it was truly documentary, or history "spiced up") some time ago where they stated that when Alex started to cast his eye on women out in India, that's then his army fell apart. :p

As to American war hero relatives; - I have one too, on my mothers fathers side: Hans Christian Heg (http://www.15thwisconsin.net/15shch01.htm), and I have that in writng, from a genealogy-book published in 1971. There you go, statue, memorial park (http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM2BK9)and all.
(I just love bragging. :D)

Sounds like it's going to be a very fun game, can't wait to see those ladies ganging up on you. :lol:

As far as rivals, I was considering the AI's CIV personality rather than historical, meaning basically backstabbers!!! Not wa rmaniacs like Khmer, Monty, Shaka but very likely to declare war on anybody at any point, that's what I am looking for!!

Louis, a rather annoying AI who I dislike. SInce this is first game where I handpicked the AIs, I'll stick with those I like. I was considering Napolean, but did not really want another charismatic leader.

I purposely avoided the politcally incorrect "Harem" issue, I don't want to offend anyone (including the wife and daughter who may be reading the thread). SO no Arabs and no Ottomans. We will just stick to Washington's Chivalrous nature!!

Alexander's fall because of an Indian woman's love??? Now that's what I am looking for, another vote for Al.

I like Julius and was considering him. Consider him bachelor #3 for the moment.

With the aspect of "ladies' men", you should consider putting Louis in, he did a lot of "sleeping around", didn't he?
Not particularly more than any other monarch of the time. It was the norm for dynastic marriages with partners that did not love each other, so mistresses on the side was not in any way uncommon.

Enable Permanent Alliances, so George can make an honest woman of one of the ladies? ;)

Yipee, another rpg.

I have one insight ;


6) Washington would never vassal any lady, and will do whatever he can to free one from being some else's vassal.


Some ladies enjoy being vassalized in my experience.

Grr, I hate Washington in my games, he is anything but honourable and chivalrous (more like "invade you with a big stack of choppers and marines" when you are going for a peaceful win), but he is related to you so I'll reconsider my position.

I'm related to one of the Men from UNCLE, so there :p

EDIT: This guy, a fairly distant cousin, I'm much better looking though

http://www.theupstairscloset.com/images/Illya%20that%20Man%20From%20UNCLE.gif

Surely Washington should be able to beat up the English though. Other things: since "He cannot tell a lie" backstabbing should be out of the question and chopping forests should only be done in the early years ;)

go George go! Side note: the father of our country (yours and mine, madscientist) never fathered any rug-rats of his own, yet there are some people who claim to be "direct" descendants of GW. amusing.

PS I'm related to Pocahontas (absolutely true)

Enable Permanent Alliances, so George can make an honest woman of one of the ladies? ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: What an excellent idea, I like it!!! :goodjob:
We can actually have a survey on the choices, sort of an American Idol thing (Hey, he is an American isn't he:D ).

So how would this factor into a diplomatic win

1) If George or Martha build the UN, theya re considered one voice correct? Can they be competitors (George Builds it, Martha has most POP) or does it go to the next AI in pop.
2) Fascism opens it up correct? (George may have no aversion to police state, but would definitely reconsider teching Fascism if Matrimony is opened up).
3) How do we deal with AI in wars, if for example AL pairs up with Bouduca and go to war with Liz? DO you want to address this before hand or play it as it comes.
4) Permanent Alliances are permanent, any attempt at divorce results in immediate loss in all treasury, property, and knowledge:D
5) What if BIG AL proposes a permamnent Aliance:eek:

go George go! Side note: the father of our country (yours and mine, madscientist) never fathered any rug-rats of his own, yet there are some people who claim to be "direct" descendants of GW. amusing.

PS I'm related to Pocahontas (absolutely true)

Ah, that was discussed. GW had uncles and brothers.

Apparently the story goes like this; During the war England seized and Washington property in England (understandably). After things got sorted (this took many decades), one of my wife's descendents got a letter inviting them to England to participate in divying up the Washington estate. That family member did not have the money or apportunity so it was left to lie. Recent family members tried to research it but got dead ends.

Grr, I hate Washington in my games, he is anything but honourable and chivalrous (more like "invade you with a big stack of choppers and marines" when you are going for a peaceful win), but he is related to you so I'll reconsider my position.

I'm related to one of the Men from UNCLE, so there :p

EDIT: This guy, a fairly distant cousin, I'm much better looking though

http://www.theupstairscloset.com/images/Illya%20that%20Man%20From%20UNCLE.gif

Surely Washington should be able to beat up the English though.


Remember, Washington was an Englishman himself and had no real animosity towards them. He refused to side with the French against England after Independence, preferring to favor neither.

Plus, English or not, GW cannot bring himself to attack such an attractive (if trecherous) redheaded beuaty.


Other things: since "He cannot tell a lie" backstabbing should be out of the question and chopping forests should only be done in the early years ;)

Fair enough, no backstabbing ( the rivals I pick will certainly be doing it first). Chopping forrests are allowed, GW will just have to be honest if questioned about it;)

Yipee, another rpg.

I have one insight ;



Some ladies enjoy being vassalized in my experience.

Nonesense, ladies in such a predictament need rescuing.

Alright, you have convinced me. I'm English anyway, and have a thing about redheads. Despite their treachery ;)

Since I live near Mt. Vernon, I will let you know if Washington is rolling over in his grave if you do anything untoward in this game ;)

No Louis is quite all right with me, can't stand the guy either. Just brought him up because of his reputation (and I know that reputation would stick to most monarchs ;)), I don't mind if I never see him again.

Allthough I don't like Julle much, either, I hope he gets in - but not as our closest neighbour. :eek:

As for vassilising one or more of the women; - that wouldn't be chivalrous now, would it? Thus not in the spirit of this game. And Permanent Alliances? Allthough I would love to see one, none of those women seems to be a fitting Mrs. USA?

Why no forest-chopping other than in the early game? Is there some historical fact about Washington concerning forests that I've missed out on? (My knowledge of US history isn't too good in the first place, that wasn't the highlights of history classes in Norway some 40-45 years ago.)

Beeline:
@ParadigmShifter
Cool, I almost know an UNCLE! :D Now all you have to prove, is your statement about better looks. ;)

Wahington is famous for (the made up) story about how he chopped down a cherry tree in the garden when he was a kid, and when his Father asked about it he confessed, saying "I cannot tell a lie..."

I haven't got a digital camera and would not be able to cope with the demand from the ladies of this site if I posted a picture of myself. Sorry girls!

Nonesense, ladies in such a predictament need rescuing.
I hope you won't find that with those ladies, you'll be the one needed to be rescued. :D

I hope you won't find that with those ladies, you'll be the one needed to be rescued. :D

GW will just have to turn on the CHARM!!!:cool: He is charismatic afterall.

I like Washington, only because he cautioned against forming political parties at the end of his presidency. If only they had listened ...

I like Washington because he was a hemp farmer!

All this OT, we need a start!!!

i may be missing something. it would certainly not be the first time! but the second part of this rule:

"6) Washington would never vassal any lady, and will do whatever he can to free one from being some else's vassal."

i can only see three ways to free her from being somebody else's vassal:

- take her as your own vassal first. can't do that!

- give the vassal enough cities to overcome the percent of their master's population/land that she needs to break free. but she might not be willing to accept your established cities if they're too far away, and the map may not have any places for you to make new cities nearby that she'll accept.

- razing or capturing some of the master's cities until the percent threshold is met. maybe when peace breaks out give the master's former cities to the lady to make her stronger.

but that third option requires a war with the master. war with the master while she's still a vassal means war with her, and because he's at peace with her, if he's at peace with all the others it also conflicts with:

3) Washington has a distrust and hatred of his 2 male rivals but if they are at peace with the ladies, he will be friendly to maintain the peace.

what to do, what to do? perhaps a male rival having a lady vassal is holding her hostage, and a form of warfare, not a true honorable peace? because she's a hostage, the fact that we have to formally declare war on her is his fault and just another of his atrocious war crimes really.

and if we have PAs on, and two of the ladies sign a PA and find a way to beat us, do we consider that a partial victory in its own way? ;)

Thanks for the info regarding the cherry tree, now I finally have an explanation to the qoute (which I had heard about).

Come to think of it, Julle just has to be in! Not only was he fiddling the Egypt queen, he had some business with Boudica, too, sort of (at least a good fight).

So start the game, and let the descendants of heroes, heroins (somehow this comes out wrong?), kings at least one, I have a swedish king in my closet, from the 1860s, (Elisabeth II now looks the spitting image of my grandmother), so I know a bit about monarchs sleeping around with kitchen maids as well as mysteriouslooking UNCLES (no picture :cry:) be dazzled by Mr. Wahingtons chivalrous and charming ways. :cooool:

We'll be following you, all the way. :clap:

i may be missing something. it would certainly not be the first time! but the second part of this rule:

"6) Washington would never vassal any lady, and will do whatever he can to free one from being some else's vassal."

i can only see three ways to free her from being somebody else's vassal:

- take her as your own vassal first. can't do that!

- give the vassal enough cities to overcome the percent of their master's population/land that she needs to break free. but she might not be willing to accept your established cities if they're too far away, and the map may not have any places for you to make new cities nearby that she'll accept.

- razing or capturing some of the master's cities until the percent threshold is met. maybe when peace breaks out give the master's former cities to the lady to make her stronger.

but that third option requires a war with the master. war with the master while she's still a vassal means war with her, and because he's at peace with her, if he's at peace with all the others it also conflicts with:



what to do, what to do? perhaps a male rival having a lady vassal is holding her hostage, and a form of warfare, not a true honorable peace? because she's a hostage, the fact that we have to formally declare war on her is his fault and just another of his atrocious war crimes really.

and if we have PAs on, and two of the ladies sign a PA and find a way to beat us, do we consider that a partial victory in its own way? ;)


Yes, saving a lady's honor can be very confusing. We will determine that when the situation arises, but if we have to declare war on the master (or bride another to do it) I think that negates the war declaration rule on the lady, providing we send no troops her way. I will amend the rules to clarify this exception, good pickup!

Now regarding 2 ladies PAing. Not sure Washington would be too happy losing to that, it's a big blow to the male ego. GW wants to be at the center of the diplomacy screen after a UN vote to victory, with all the adoring ladies arroun him.

Thanks for the info regarding the cherry tree, now I finally have an explanation to the qoute (which I had heard about).

Come to think of it, Julle just has to be in! Not only was he fiddling the Egypt queen, he had some business with Boudica, too, sort of (at least a good fight).

So start the game, and let the descendants of heroes, heroins (somehow this comes out wrong?), kings at least one, I have a swedish king in my closet, from the 1860s, (Elisabeth II now looks the spitting image of my grandmother), so I know a bit about monarchs sleeping around with kitchen maids as well as mysteriouslooking UNCLES (no picture :cry:) be dazzled by Mr. Wahingtons chivalrous and charming ways. :cooool:

We'll be following you, all the way. :clap:

I think you are right with Jules, I may go with three males rivals. A very cosey world indeed :mischief: , but we need a few other AIs for Bouduca to beatup on.

So AL, Jules, maybe Qin. Any others?

Monty!!!!!!!!!

Monty!!!!!!!!!


No way. I want some intelligent and scheming backstabbers, not a senseless lunatic. It's anough to have three rather agressive ladies to deal with.

Boo. Huayna then, all the girls will be after him for his earrings.

Yes, saving a lady's honor can be very confusing. We will determine that when the situation arises, but if we have to declare war on the master (or bride another to do it) I think that negates the war declaration rule on the lady, providing we send no troops her way. I will amend the rules to clarify this exception, good pickup!

KMads excellent comment was posted when I was preoccupied, only picked it up later. Based on her post and part of your answer (above), I would suggest the following (hoping nobody beats me to it ;)):
1. If a lady becomes somebodys vassal out of her own free will, leave her to it.
2. If a lady is attacked by another man and then vassilised, protect her by attacking the man, but don't ever send forces towards the lady. (If she then attacks you, you should be permitted to defend yourself.) Any cities you take from the offender should immidiately be given to the lady. Continue war untill the lady has enough cities to liberate herself. Then make peace, preferably by vassilising the man.

But what if two woman fights? And one of them ends up a vassal? Do you then just step back and let them claw each others eyes out? No: "No, there, there, ladies..."?
I think the rule for this could possibly be: Charm (bribe) them into making peace.

Huyana, definately; he can be peaceful and friendly, a decent techer and wonderbuilder, and he can also give a good fight.

And no, ParadigmShifter, it's not his earrings we're after! He's got all the eyetwinkling and cueca handclapping charm that really can melt a womans heart, and ... ... ... :blush:

So if you want competition for the ladies, Hyana is the man. ;)

Noone else springs to mind at the moment, unless maybe Germany/Bismarck?
Or will Zara do? I've seen very little of both of them in my games, but they have been worthy opponents and way more balanced than the loonie-gang (no need for namecalling, we all know them).

I would suggest Napoleon then. Zara makes me wince when I see him in a game, good suggestion Carabodes.

Well that's 2 votes each for Huayna, the king of bling, and Zara, who I have never met since I don't have BtS.

I think we should be chivalrous and let the ladies decide though.

Napoeon, heh? I would surely like to see him beaten. I have a bone to pick with Nappe, every time I meet him, he starts out annoyd, going towards furious, and then he attacks me, never fails to happen. :mad: I hate that man, let the women loose on him, and make him dead, dead, dead! (He hasn't beaten me yet, but I haven't beaten him either. :sad:) He wars well, and he techs fairly good too.

So, thanks to chivalry ;) we now have 4 suggestions for you:
Julle - definitely
Huyana - definitely
Zara - a good candidate
Nappe - for my revenge

@Madscientist
Diplomatic Victory via UN (Grade A)
Culture Win (Grade B)
Time win (Grade C)
SpaceSHip win (Grade C)
Domination/Conquest/AP diplo (F)

Took another look at the above, as well as thought some more about controlling the various catfights/wars:
Allthough you have graded an AP-diplo-win as F, I think you should set up building AP as a prioritised part-time goal. Not for the diplowin (rule: if that choice come up, you have to not put that up for election), but for the "make peace with X"-election. This as part of keeping the ladies from catfights, as well as for protection of the ladies, i.e. in a war between a man and a lady, you always have to vote for "make peace with the lady".

Napoleon says:

http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/rigsby.jpg

Miss Jones! Set her loose on me!

OK, I am going to work on the game generation and finalize some things.

Here is mythinking.

1) Rivals: we will go to three, ALEX, JULES, Napolean. We have 2 creative ladies, I really do not want another (meaning Zara). Remember I cannot expand via military very easily, I would like to minimize that cutlural pressure. HC is too peaceful (alot different from teh Vanilla version) and if I did want moneybags to compete with the ladies it would be Darius. Napolean is charismatic, but hell with it.
2) Vassaled ladies: If the lady vassals to a rival without war, we let it go but look for an opportunity. If a lady is vassaled to a rival via war, it means we would have been at war already so we continue the conflict until the lady is liberated. If a lady vassales to a lady, we keep hands off and let them sort it out.
3) We can use the AP to it's fullest abilities, just not AP diplo victory.

Sounds good, bring it on, stud. Remember Napoleon is really Rigsby from Rising Damp and you will not go wrong.

Napoleon says: Miss Jones! Set her loose on me!
She'll be expecting a firm response, not 'Can we have that again, Mr. Rigsby?'

controlloing AP voting will be key with this variant

I edited the origional post and added the start.

Chivalrous Washington: Start
Thank you for Nappe, now develop, find him, beat him, kill him! :mischief: And say hello from me as you do so. :D

Yummy stone + 2 corn in BFC, and then spices within sight. And lots of water for Moai Statues.
Lighthouse/Great Lighthouse?
Oracle/MC -> Colossus?

With all that water it may not look too good to start with, but from my experience with Islands maps, cities placed like that become powerhouses, popping out units each turn in late game, on marathon speed.

Ah, with that start I can go to bed with sweet dreams (it's almost 2 at night here).

Tech route: mysticism, the wheel, masonry for sure (mysticism/wheel can be substituted). maybe beeline bronze working, then priesthood, then writing.
worker first, then stonehenge or warrior
farm corn, road to stone, quarry, 2nd farm.

i can't judge anything on marathon speed, tech times, city growth, when barbs come, even worker actions. i love the idea of stonehenge, we're charismatic! so of course i want myst/wheel/masonry in some order.

tech path afterwards, i think you can't delay BW too long, since our worker has nothing to do except roadwork once the corn and stone are taken care of. maybe those things will take so long that it works out to sneak something else in, i dunno.

My thinking for the start of this game is to leverage what we get from GW. Expansive and charismatic means he can grow cities larger earlier than any other leader in the game (Vertical and horizontal expansion). He also starts with fishing and Agriculture, meaning he can work the corn once he gets a worker, and harvest fish from the lake for 2 commerce.

Stone is very attractive for stonehenge but to be honest GW can tech mining/BW and chop it out faster than teching masonry/whell and building a quarry/road. The stone is valuable for the Great Wall and/or pyramids. the land sort of sets us up for a SE. Also there is a lone grassland plot south of the settler which I bet is either horse/copper/iron.

I also plan to go with SNAATY's suggested start from a previous thread: fast border expansion, get capital to happy cap fast, then pump out worker and settlers to cut off some AI's. If we cannot expand by war versus the ladies, and are delayed expanding versus the rivals I think getting as much land as possible at the beginning is the way to go.

Tech path: hunting/archery/mining/wheel/pottery (I may get another worker tech depending on resources). Archery, sacriligous you say!!!! I have used Snaaty's early strat numerous times and it has not failed me yet, I alter the game from his walkthrough once I get the 4th city although I typically beeline liberalism (GW's trait are not best for that though).

Builds: worker/military/military/military etc... until we are at the happy cap then settler. Perhaps we can slip a workboat in there for exploration.


Finally, the stone is an interesting find and after early expansion we should utilize it. Axe-rush is out, and there is no industrious leader (Qin and HC were dropped). I am really considering the great wall pronto for the great spy. If the ladies start demanding techs left and right (especially catherine) we are probably going to have to steal some ourselves (and probably get our faces slapped in the process).

Tech path: hunting/archery/mining/wheel/pottery (I may get another worker tech depending on resources). Archery, sacriligous you say!!!! I have used Snaaty's early strat numerous times and it has not failed me yet, I alter the game from his walkthrough once I get the 4th city although I typically beeline liberalism (GW's trait are not best for that though).
Agree with hunting/archery/but ... ... then wheel (to hook up the corn + start road to stone).

Finally, the stone is an interesting find and after early expansion we should utilize it.
Absolutely.

I am really considering the great wall pronto for the great spy. If the ladies start demanding techs left and right (especially catherine) we are probably going to have to steal some ourselves (and probably get our faces slapped in the process).
Therefore I suggest you sneak in mining/bronzeworking/masonry (great wall as soon as masonry is in) before you take pottery (you can't "pott" much before you can chop anyway, too many trees around). After pottery maybe animal husbandry (to look for ponies)/mystisism (to try chopping stonehenge + be on the route to oracle).

And I too think that with those ladies, spies are a must, don't want them to :spank: you!

Builds: worker/military/military/military etc... until we are at the happy cap then settler. Perhaps we can slip a workboat in there for exploration.
Agree, but... .... suggesting a slightly faster approach:
worker/military (go explore)/military/settler (second city)/military/worker/workboat (go explore - can be delayed till after the wall)/Great Wall/stonehenge (if not built by others)(and/or)pyramids
Second city can then go military/worker/military/settler/something/oracle
- and we're on our way to our glorious empire. :D

Axe-rush is out, ... ...
Even if Nappe is next door??? :eek:

Even if Nappe is next door??? :eek:

Part of the RPC game with chivalrous GW. HE will not break the peace until on of the ladies are attacked or he is. So if Nappy is nest dorr we have to play nice.

:rotfl:

I was afraid that was the answer I would get.
(Napoleon and nice play somehow don't sound right. ;))

:rotfl:

I was afraid that was the answer I would get.
(Napoleon and nice play somehow don't sound right. ;))

I played one game in warlords where Nap was my next door neighbor the entire game and I never went to war with him. He did alot to egg me one (changed religions for no good reason, switched out of representation) but I kept bribing him to be nice. I worked I got a space win while he went to war with most of the world.

That was ONE game, all the others were war driven.

The thing about Napolean, he is smart. So is AL. Jules is probably the least (Gus is the smarter of the Romans).

My thinking for the start of this game is to leverage what we get from GW. Expansive and charismatic means he can grow cities larger earlier than any other leader in the game (Vertical and horizontal expansion). He also starts with fishing and Agriculture, meaning he can work the corn once he gets a worker, and harvest fish from the lake for 2 commerce.

Stone is very attractive for stonehenge but to be honest GW can tech mining/BW and chop it out faster than teching masonry/whell and building a quarry/road. The stone is valuable for the Great Wall and/or pyramids. the land sort of sets us up for a SE. Also there is a lone grassland plot south of the settler which I bet is either horse/copper/iron.

I also plan to go with SNAATY's suggested start from a previous thread: fast border expansion, get capital to happy cap fast, then pump out worker and settlers to cut off some AI's. If we cannot expand by war versus the ladies, and are delayed expanding versus the rivals I think getting as much land as possible at the beginning is the way to go.

Tech path: hunting/archery/mining/wheel/pottery (I may get another worker tech depending on resources). Archery, sacriligous you say!!!! I have used Snaaty's early strat numerous times and it has not failed me yet, I alter the game from his walkthrough once I get the 4th city although I typically beeline liberalism (GW's trait are not best for that though).

Builds: worker/military/military/military etc... until we are at the happy cap then settler. Perhaps we can slip a workboat in there for exploration.


Finally, the stone is an interesting find and after early expansion we should utilize it. Axe-rush is out, and there is no industrious leader (Qin and HC were dropped). I am really considering the great wall pronto for the great spy. If the ladies start demanding techs left and right (especially catherine) we are probably going to have to steal some ourselves (and probably get our faces slapped in the process).

Is it faster? 120 hammers, so you'll have to make at least one mine and chop 3+ forests. Once the quarry is up, you're getting at least 6 hammers/turn, needing 10 turns to complete stone henge. With a corn, you should be size 3 to work a plain/hills for 9 hammers, so if you add in 6 turns building it while growing, that's 6 turns after the quarry. So 12 turns post-masonry.
In comparison, you must get mining, bronze working, mysticism. You can start chopping a mine before you complete mysticism, so you're getting about 5/turn + 20. Let's say you get 2 workers as you complete bronze working, so say you mine a plains/hill and a grassland hill for 8/turn, 2 forests for 40 hammers. Chop 2 more forests in 4 turns, 80+4*8=112, so about 5 turns. Add 2.5 more turns for each additional forest you want to save, more if you build only one worker.

Tech-wise, you're saving time, since you need bronze working, but you're wasting a ton of forests, in my opinion, and you don't have to chop settlers when you'll have 2 corns, a quarry, and 1-2 forests to work right after stonehenge is done.

Normally I'd just go for workers and settlers, but you're charismatic dangit. Chop a 2nd worker for the expansive bonus.

You're right, Julius is definitely not smart, and no diplomat. Last time (but one) I saw him, I had found him with my boats, he had not found me (none of his boats had been even in the vicinity of my land - islands maps), so to know my whereabouts, he must have gotten a map from somebody.

He declares while still at home on the other side of the world, giving me ample time to prepare, comes down from the north with his SoD and attacks the first city he meets, without even caring that one tile away, I had stacks and stacks waiting for him. None of his braves made it back home. 10 rounds passes, and down he comes again.

And all the time he completely ignored that I had one city strategically placed next to his border ofthe city where he had his sole ponies and his only coal. And I had airport in that city. Needless to say, Julle didn't last long.

Now Alex, he tries to be friendly and diplomatic, and at the same time building up. And he asseses not so much the powergraph as the weakest city, and launches for that. And he doesn't declare untill he's at my border. And if he's beaten, he's back to causious, and then starts being diplomatic again.

And then there's Nappe - Always arrogant, always making demands, always annoyed at start. As soon as you get him to pleased, he takes your kindness as a sign of weakness, and makes another arrogant demand - back to annoyed. And all the time teching like crazy, building stack after stack of grenadiers, awaiting his moment, goes to furious and - boom! French units everywhere, swarming into my land, pillaging like crazy, everywhere I turn, there's a french soldier peeping round the corner. Only way to get at him is bribing somebody else to join + take some of his cities - and I have a very furious vassal for the rest of the game! The man's simply GRRRRRR!!!

Can't wait to see how you'll deal with them - and with those ladies.

Hope many people will join the tread, so we can have some lively discussions.

Alright, you have convinced me. I'm English anyway, and have a thing about redheads. Despite their treachery ;)

I know that feeling ;)

I hope you won't find that with those ladies, you'll be the one needed to be rescued. :D

Hehe, might be, as it's rather hard to please Isabella, Boudica, Catherine and Elizabeth at once :O

I like Washington because he was a hemp farmer!


:thumbsup:

:rotfl:

I was afraid that was the answer I would get.
(Napoleon and nice play somehow don't sound right. ;))

You'll get your revenge sooner or later, don't worry :)

Chivalrous Washington: Part 1

Well I started the game tonight and went further into it than I expected. Not how I planned, some unexpected things.

First of all we settle in place, as 2 corn and 2 lake tiles are pretty darned good. Plus the stone.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0000.jpg

Immediately I start exploring and find some tundra tiles, oh boy! Then we meet one of the Rivals.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0001.jpg

The stupid one with the super UU.

Our tech path goes hunting/archery as there is no wroker techs that will help us right away besides the wheel.

Next we hit mining and BW and the world after BW

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0002.jpg

Notice anything? No copper or ladies yet. Well there is one copper source, very far north admidst icesheets, ice/tundra/clams. Essentially 2 tiles to utilize, copper and clams. I stationed an archer there just incase a barb city pops up and we need the copper.

We tech myst/Masonry/AH and low and behold

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0003.jpg

We got horses and cut off JC with 2 cities. Gotta keep him out of my tundra. Still no sign of any women.

AT this point it is pretty obvious: No ladies, just me and JC stuck on a rather barren northern continent. Bah, this stinks.

Now, some good news. I delayed teching masonry for archery and BW. But once I got tyhe stone hooked up I started some sonders in Washington.

First one

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0004.jpg

That was the first one anyone has built (there are a total of 9 leaders on this standard map). Stonehenge is not built yet!!

SO I decided to try it while some workers cleared a forrested southern hill. Wow!!!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0005.jpg

Onto Pottery!!! But what after that and what do we do with the Roman dude. The rules say Washington must stay at peace with the rivals but only to maintain peace with the ladies. But, there are no ladies watching are there :mischief:


The status of this fine empire so far

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0006.jpg

A little more zoomed out

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWA0007.jpg

So where do we go with this unusual situation. Here are some ideas

1) We have horse, and I assume JC will get that eastern horse soon. I do not think he has copper in Rome's BFC but not sure.
2) After Pottery, do we go for Iron and try to lock it up fast? If we get it (I still think it is south of Washington's) do we rush JC before any of the ladies find us misbehaving???
3) 2 wonders in Washington. Do we wonderspam here? We should get the pyramids no problem. Washington can support some farms I think, plus 3 food for each lake tile once I get a lighthouse. Easy to run some scientist specialists. The problem is the other two cities are not good cottage areas. Washington could easily be a monster GP farm with wonders galore. DO we settle them, ala OBSOLETES method??? AT this point I would not be surpirzed to still get the oracle after building the pyramids.

I could regenerate the maps and restart but I would like to work this out. IF JC has iron and we have not, it may be time to call it a day and retry the game.

Looking for some ideas from the troops!

can you also grab the whale with a city on the ice sheets? it would at least work ONE more tile than 2. You could also keep expanding towards JC because he has all the barbs on the continent on his hands since you built the great wall. My noble-level recommendations are to tech iron working, expand towards JC to put more barb pressure on him and take away the Iron, and when you can work teh whales settle that ice-city. The copper would be nice to have in case there isn't Iron available.

you shouldnt use washington you should use Gene Simmons for the ladies man,lmao

at least I think so

madscientist:
So where do we go with this unusual situation. Here are some ideas

1) We have horse, and I assume JC will get that eastern horse soon. I do not think he has copper in Rome's BFC but not sure.
2) After Pottery, do we go for Iron and try to lock it up fast? If we get it (I still think it is south of Washington's) do we rush JC before any of the ladies find us misbehaving???
3) 2 wonders in Washington. Do we wonderspam here? We should get the pyramids no problem. Washington can support some farms I think, plus 3 food for each lake tile once I get a lighthouse. Easy to run some scientist specialists. The problem is the other two cities are not good cottage areas. Washington could easily be a monster GP farm with wonders galore. DO we settle them, ala OBSOLETES method??? AT this point I would not be surpirzed to still get the oracle after building the pyramids.

I could regenerate the maps and restart but I would like to work this out. IF JC has iron and we have not, it may be time to call it a day and retry the game.

Looking for some ideas from the troops!

tboner23:
can you also grab the whale with a city on the ice sheets? it would at least work ONE more tile than 2. You could also keep expanding towards JC because he has all the barbs on the continent on his hands since you built the great wall. My noble-level recommendations are to tech iron working, expand towards JC to put more barb pressure on him and take away the Iron, and when you can work teh whales settle that ice-city. The copper would be nice to have in case there isn't Iron available.

1) and 2)
Yes please, go IW after pottery, then polytheism/priesthood for oracle. Immediate action: Rush 2 settlers, one for Copperfield, and one for expanding towards Julle. As tboner23 suggests, try to settle Copperfield so that you can grab the whales too. You didn’t have the grid on, so I can’t be sure, but to me it looks like you can grab crab/copper/whale by settling 1S of the icy hill up there. That will also, once you have the techs, give you a windmill and a waterwheel, thus the city will not be totally crappy.

Hook up copper asap (and iron when/if it comes in), spam axes and chariots. Add a little spearman just in case. Take the idiot – the ladies will never know he was even here ;). It’s only just to do so, the Roman Empire was long gone when Washington saw the light of day – history should repeat itself. And furthermore, there’s no room for an idiot with praetorians on our small continent :D. And do all this before JC has discovered iron, ‘cause he won’t be chivalrous! – And don’t be afraid, it’s quite possible to take out JC without iron, even if he has iron. I’ve done it (remember my story from my MP-game?), and I’m lousy at warfare. And if I can, you certainly can. Praetorians are killable, you only need more troops ;).

Might I suggest sailing right after IW/poly/priest? High time to let your scouts meet the ladies (as well as the other rivals) now that Julle is gone :mischief:.

3) Yes, wonder spam capital (that’s why I suggested polytheism instead of meditation, more wonder-access) and copy Obsolete (I like his hammer-count! :D), settle every GP you can grab. Be greedy and see if you can get oracle/colossus/great lighthouse (let that city get a lighthouse soon).

And don’t forget we have GW, build walls in all cities (cheap with stone) for later castles, if lucky, we might get the castle-quest ;). And if not, we’ll still get the EP’s from the castles once we have engineering.

No regeneration, please, just treat this as if it was an islands map. After Julle is dead and gone, it looks like the island/continent-part(?) east of Julle might be the next stepping stone in settling. At the moment we can see only 2 tiles, but I have the feeling it’s part of something worth settling on (and remember, I have still not patched, so no downloading of saves, thus no spoilers from me). There’s also one island south of NY, as well as one SE of Julle, they will both be reachable with sailing. Looks like they’re small, though, but since we only see the northern coast of them, they may of course be the points of a larger landmass. I know we’re a bit low on resources on our mainland, so we’ll have to prioritise astronomy in this game, but I think that early sailing might help us too.

And anyways, I would hate to see our pretty, wonder-spamming, and stone-filled capital being switched for some crappy capital on a larger, but more crowded continent, even though we’ll be lonely once the idiot’s gone. You’ll be alone in America, now go find Europe! And you can sit snugly isolated and protected while you watch the world (and catfights) go by, juggling your diplomatic skills, to their confusion. :D

I'd consider grabbing the copper/crab site at some point. That's worth 2 scientists. Except for the capital, you're poor on grasslands, and not many rivers to boot. I'd go for an SE fueled off of resources and focus on production. Jimmy Carter is going to be hard to take out.

If you can steal the rightmost resources from JC, particularly the fish and pig, that would help a lot. This is kind of dull, diplomatically, you're just bound to kill Jesus Christ once praetorians lose their advantage. Oh wait, that would be wrong.

OK they way I see it

1) We tech Pottery, then IW. I agree. We gotta get wrining in there somewhere for the libraries though.
2) Poly/Priest and continues wonderspammiong, check.
3) Copper city. No, whles will not be in the same city as crabs/copper, and sea tiles are limited. Still good point about 2 scientists. I'll wait until we tech IW.
4) Death to the Romans, I like it!
:goodjob:
5) further cut off JC, may be difficult but I'll see what we can do.
6) Once JC is out we have an isolated start basically. SO we have to impress the ladies with the mysterious and isolated island of wonders, Will our ladies accept that????

... ... ... ... and out of the misty fog and unknown darkness across the seas he came sailing, that wonderful, mysterious stranger, bringing promises of protection and rescue ... ... ... ...

and the :queen: :queen: :queen: go:
:faint: :faint: :faint: :love: :love: :love: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Of course they'll like it (as long as JC doesn't live to meet them first). :D


ps.: Sorry about the whale not fitting into the picture. Well, can't be helped, Willy has to stay free, then, and we'll have to find rusty lumps in the soil somewhere.

Chivalrous Washington

Well, GW is completely heartbroken as you will read on.

First of all we built the pyramids, popped a Great Spy which we have saved for later (I will use it by the end of this section). a GE which we settled.

But some unforseen and rather severe events occurred which make me serious question whether we should restart this RPC.

First we send an archer to explore and see if we can try and cut JC off, low and behold.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWB0000.jpg

Notice anything here? JC has iron and prats already :eek: IW moved up in priority just after pottery.

We also met one of the ladies, Hatshepsut (who founded judaism). Sorry I lost the screenshot. Oh well, so much for taking out JC early.

We tech IW and...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWB0001.jpg

That's what we are talking about, iron within our cultural borders. We built city 4 south of Washington to work the wheat and iron (our choices are slim), but there is also a barbarian island to the south which looks pretty decent.

Then Washington loses his breath and gasps.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWB0002.jpg

Look at the red words at the top. Liz has been killed!!!! This is a problem.

We continued teching, made some trades, got alphabet from HAtty for Aesthetics and send the great spy into Rome. Time to steal some techs, pull ahead, and get the GL and work representation.

Then we get another message> The Spanish civilization has been destroyed.

The final screenshot:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/GWB0003.jpg

Well that does it for me. 2 of teh ladies I have yet to meet get themselves killed. You would figure that they could keep themselves alive until I resuce them. Bah.... I can deal with Prats and poor land, but this just kills the heart of the RPC.

With Issy and Liz gone I think I am going to just tank this game and restart it next week. Not for the problem of fighting out of a tough spot but the loss of these two.

Perhaps those two extra AIs just crowded the board too much. I'll stick to the 5 ladies next time, but have only 1 rival. And I'll use hemisphere continents rather than the big little board (that would also limit colonies, something I didn't think about until I started the game..

Isabella - good riddance!
Liz - noooooo!!!!

Hatshepsut's not going to help out, she's either killing them with her chariots (not very likely in my experience of Warlords anyway) or will be chums with the agressor, and everyone, until you build Manhattan Project when she nukes the crap out of everyone.

I'm thinking Boudicca might be responsible if she's playing though, I heard she is "fiery".

I spotted that praetorian at once, and my heart sunk - till I saw the iron.

Then you had to go and spoil it all by not protecting your ladies properly. Shame on you! :rolleyes: Where's the shivalry in letting the barbs win the game?

Regenerate, please, before the barbs build the UN and go for a diplo win. :eek:

Hemisphaeres sounds nice. I don't think you should cut off any of the AI, though, 8 AIs are only 1 AI more than the default settings for a standard map, isn't it? You can set the landmass to 3 or 4 continents (should prevent isolation) + some islands? Just suggesting.
As to the shape of the continents, have you tried snaky? Makes chances of meating everybody earlier much higher, I think. 'Cause you have to kind of meet them before they die, you see. Sorry, disappointment spawn sarcasm, nothing personal. ;)

And all our beautiful wonders :sad: and our grand spy :cry:. And the poor, unprotected ladies, now they'll have to wait a whole week for you. :help:

Well, better luck next time, we'll be waiting. :wavey:

Washington and his huge snaky continent - I can see it now.

Washington and his huge snaky continent - I can see it now.

:rotfl:
Now, now, there, there, behave yourself! ;)

so where is the reality in all of this? you coulda used caesar as the ladies man

Pangaea next time. Not Hemispheres. What's the point of handpicking all your opponents and making all these elaborate rules for dealing with them if you are guaranteed to only be in contact with half of them at most?

Also, any chance of uploading the save from the final round?

Did you go into world builder to see who did all the killing? I bet it was Boddy.

IMO she's no lady and should be excluded next time.

I am restarting this in a new thread. I am altering the map but keeping the same ladies and rivals. Also I turned off barbarians, not that I feel a threat from them but to protect the ladies, or at least give me the chance to protect them.

Here is the last save from the first thread.

again why is Washington the good guy and not some other leader who slept around

again why is Washington the good guy and not some other leader who slept around

Because GW was chivalrous and nobel, read my intro. He's very much admired by myself, and since it's my RPC game he's the charmer.

Romans took what they wanted and were not really chivalrous (Hell, read about Bouduca's history, Rome was not really chivalrous in her case).