This thread is about all the old games that are much better than many new games.

Please say your favourite old games.


To start with: TZAR; The Burden of The Crown

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Tzarburdenofthecrownscreenshot.jpg


This is the game which, I'm sure, inspired Blizz to make WC3. Basics:


3 Races: Arabians, Europeans and Asians
3 types of units: Magic, War and Other
Upgrades
All units gain XP
Units with many XP become Heroes
An Editor
Neutral Buildings that offer you goods.

This thread is about all the old games that are much better than many new games.

Please say your favourite old games.


To start with: TZAR; The Burden of The Crown

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Tzarburdenofthecrownscreenshot.jpg


This is the game which, I'm sure, inspired Blizz to make WC3. Basics:

3 Races: Arabians, Europeans and Asians
3 types of units: Magic, War and Other
Upgrades
All units gain XP
Units with many XP become Heroes
An Editor
Neutral Buildings that offer you goods.
Hmm, never heard of that one.


There are plenty of old games I still play. I've played all of these within the last 2 years:

Colonization
Master of Magic
Master of Orion
XCom UFO Defense
XCom Apocolypse
Doom 2
Starcraft
Civilization 2
Alien vs. Predator
Alpha Centauri
Half Life
System Shock 2

I was playing Duke Nukem 3D not too long ago. Still fun. Has a lot of personality that many new shooters seem to try to avoid.

The wasteland, came out in I think 87?Really great game.

I still play freespace and descent.

http://tleaves.com/weblog/images/articles/ultima7-murder.jpg

Civ1
Prehistorik II
Lines (most people I know never heard of it though)

are all really great games. :)

Heh pretty much anything and everything for the SNES and NES, too many memories playing the computer. lovely.

Carrier Command, Monkey Island, Cruise for a Corpse, Midnight Resistence as well and of course the pinicle of excellence that is Elite 2.

Does anyone know of a way to play that game (Elite 2) on XP?

Dosbox works for me. I do have an old computer dedicated for old games.

I ended playing on The Incredible Machine in 3 am today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMaBsl6RPdI

I fired up descent and it's still a blast. I might make videos of the 9 [7] levels of the shareware version (If I can finish them under 10 minutes). This is the first level.

Sometimes I fire up Pokemon Silver when I'm extremely bored.

I also play some Carmen Sandiego, Empire Earth, and a few others.

Sometimes I fire up Pokemon Silver when I'm extremely bored.
And I thought I was alone.

I play all the old Mario Bros and World games every couple weeks.

I have a 1989 Jeopardy game in a 720k floppy that's fun to play from time to time. It's more challenging than the current TV version, which is a plus. The computer usually wins, thanks in no small part to frequently buzzing in with the answer .2 seconds after the question appears.

Haven't played it in awhile, though - don't have the disk with me.

Oregon Trail II I also play from time to time. It doesn't run perfectly on Vista, but then again, it tended to crash alot back in its day, too. Much better than the original version IMHO. Great concept and great game.

Command HQ

Dosbox works for me. I do have an old computer dedicated for old games.


Thanks man, downloaded it and now I can play Elite again for the first time in... well I dunno how long, maybe 13 years. So thanks :D

Now.......... anyone got any tips for Elite?

Lemmings.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evTZsNHap-4

More of the same.

Nice to see Descent again :) It's been a while since I played that.

I'm currently into Driver (not so very old, though (1997?)):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCBNGVZp0EA

And I have also played some Shadow Warrior :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d3CLzstO9U

And I have also played some Shadow Warrior :D

Ah, the Monty Python joke.

Playing some FF7.

Not that old, but I think it qualifies.

Playing Star Control II (the open source project is named The Ur-Quan Masters).
First played it on my 3DO when it came out (1993), couldn't finish it for some reason. So, I'm having a go at it after 10+ years !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMaBsl6RPdI

I fired up descent and it's still a blast. I might make videos of the 9 levels of the shareware version (If I can finish them under 10 minutes). This is the first level.


Can you give me a link to download location?
(If it's free or abandonware;) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOw5ax72NX4

"Enjoy the ride" Level 3

Can you give me a link to download location?
(If it's free or abandonware;) )

Shareware version can be found here for example.

http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/download2.php?id=4

[EDIT] Straight link to file.

Hey, Rhein, I have a question regarding DOSBOX. I was about to send you a pm, but it might be interesting to others.
Sometimes I'd like to play older original games I possess, but they don't work on XP. Is DOSBOX the ultimate answer, or is there something else.
Say, if I wanted to play Fleet Command with the actual CD, how would I do that ?
Thanks.

Hey, Rhein, I have a question regarding DOSBOX. I was about to send you a pm, but it might be interesting to others.
Sometimes I'd like to play older original games I possess, but they don't work on XP. Is DOSBOX the ultimate answer, or is there something else.
Say, if I wanted to play Fleet Command with the actual CD, how would I do that ?
Thanks.

DOSox only works for games that run under DOS. If you have a Win95/98 game that is giving you trouble under XP, you can try the compatibility mode:

Right click on a link to the game exe, and select properties. Then go to the tab shown bellow:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/662/clipboard01cu1.jpg


If that doesn't work, you are best off with a dedicated computer for these games. It's what i do. You can get one for less money than a new game, if you look around for a bit.
Another alternative is to install Win98 as secondary OS. Finding drivers for your hardware might prove difficult, however.
Perhaps a better option is to use the free version of VirtualPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_PC) to emulate Win98. It doesn't come with 3d acceleration, but at least you won't have to worry about sound/network drivers.

With DOS compatible games, try to install them under Windows first. If that doesn't work, you can use DOSBox to install them. A frontend like Dfend makes this very easy.

Thanks for the quick and easy answer :slaps forehead in shame:.
I'll have to try that, as soon as I find that damn CD...

Geez, I think I qin so far for oldness, I just checked and wasteland was 1987. I love it though, it ties for my favorite of all time ever with final fantasy seven. It had so much charector and proved once and for all that crazy nice graphics are not a requirment for a great game and an incredible immersion factor. The world ion that gamne was so real, it actually felt like a post-apocalyptic wasteland and the whole mechanics worked very well. While it was a little lacking in why it is that your doin what your doing, and there was no linearity at all(you could go to Las Vegas rite off and go to the "final" place) it was just fun to.....walk around even.

I also play my Atari 2600 some times. I have about 30 games for it or so. Pole Position and Donkey Kong FTW.

I also play my Atari 2600 some times. I have about 30 games for it or so. Pole Position and Donkey Kong FTW.

I've played pole position on C64. I should check if my Commodore in the attic is still alive.



Some more descent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPCiKNCCPw

C64 FTW !
And 520 ST !
And Nintendo forever !

My C64 still works (well, it did last time I checked, which was... quite a few years ago), problem is the games and drives. Tapes and Floppy really don't last long :sad: and my 1541 drive doesn't even works anymore.

I feel that if you have the space, you might as well get a dedicated PC for the older games. I've managed to build myself a 486 out of dumped parts - with a total cost of £12.83. If you arn't that nerdy to do it yourself, you can often pick them up for free or a token sum (like £5), and now nearly all programmes are now abandonware (is this a legal term yet?) and easy to find. The only problem is finding a Operating System - nearly all 3.x discs have gone to electronic heaven, also with a majority of 95-98 CD's.

However, there is a serious problem with owning a fossil for DOS gaming. You do need to be handy with computers. You may be lucky and never need to do anything, but the chances are something will happen. At the very least, you are going to need to do a full re-install of your Operating System (to wipe away 10+ years of crap), find and install all those drivers and updates which are now near-impossible to find without numbingly boring hours searching the net. Some of the work you will have to do will be like trying to read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales - similar enough to read, but too old to really make sense.

All this effort isn't worth it if you only want to play Civ I occasionly, but if you are playing many DOS games, just think of the time you take to set up the game each time, it is worth a look. Even though DOSBox is one of the best free programmes I have ever come across, it still can't run 100% of DOS games.

I mourn for all the C64's, A1200's, ZX Spectrum's and their ilk, loved, treasured and remembered, but stuck in bottom drawers, lofts and garages (often) due to a common problem, such as faulty wiring. :cry:

All of these old games will probably be resold and archived at some point and somebody will update them to make them compatible with the newer systems and OSs, think books.

I wish somebody would do that. There are a lot of people who would be willing to actually pay money for windows compatible old games. Including me.

I think there are emulators for nearly every vintage platform out there. They often work better than the original product, so i don't see that much need for porting the classics. I do wish they would just continue to sell them, however, as some games are nigh impossible to find legally and/or have ridiculous prize tags.

I think there are emulators for nearly every vintage platform out there. They often work better than the original product, so i don't see that much need for porting the classics. I do wish they would just continue to sell them, however, as some games are nigh impossible to find legally and/or have ridiculous prize tags.

The old console games aren't the problem to me. But old PC games from the dos/win3.1 era are almost impossible to find legally. Heck, some of them seem to have completely disappeared from the face of the earth.

Does anyone know where I could buy Descent 2? I'd really appreciate it.

Finding replacement controllers for old consoles is also hard although you can fix them yourself to a certain degree.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_i_0?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywords=%26%2334%3Bdescent%202%26%2334%3B&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A%26%2334%3Bdescent%202%26%2334%3B %2Ci%3Avideogames) and ebay (http://video-games.search.ebay.co.uk/descent-2_Video-Games_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQcatrefZC11QQfromZR10QQfsooZ 1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQga10244Z10425QQpf_query ZQ22descentQ202Q22QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ1249QQsaobfmt sZinsifQQsatitleZQ22descentQ202Q22) both have a few copies for sale from private sellers. Just make sure to check if they are willing to ship to Ross 154. A polite email with instructions often convinces even sellers who are reluctant to ship to places outside their country.

You beat me to it.
Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.fr/DESCENT-2-JEU-NEUF-SOUS-BLISTER-PC-CD-ROM-yy_W0QQitemZ320183480901QQihZ011QQcategoryZ87198QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItem)has it.

Stupid Amazon doesn't ship to Finland.

I don't understand the french Ebay site.

And the one on the UK site is for mac.

:mad:

I can buy it for you if you want. The guy lives 5mn from my workplace.
EDIT : He can also ship to Finland. 4€ S&L. Makes it at 8€ total. Sounds like a good deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euH7Hy8HUFE

5th level, "speedrun".

So, you have the paradox that some people want copies of retro PC games. Good for the company, yes? It will earn them a few pounds on programmes that otherwise would be sitting in a dark storeroom somewhere, earning nothing. However, the demand is so low to make it unprofitable unless it is sold at around £10 ($20) a copy, at the least. Unfortuantly, at that price, world sales will be around 3 copies.

So, why not just sell the program over the 'net? The price will be alot lower, and 90% of abandonware sites will remove their free version as it will be 'in production' and no longer abandonware.

Here, most companies fall into the trap that the music industry fell into a couple of years ago. They expected full price for their products, dispite the fact that you are not even gaining any physical product, like a case, CD, or a tome of a manual. As an economist, this seems rather silly business strategy.

There is another issue here. According to the law, your possession of a CD/Floppy/Magnetic Reel/Cartridge/30kg of Punched Cards is your legal right to a copy of that program. It does not matter if that media is utterly corruped - as long as it still exists physically. Also, you are allowed to keep 'one backup copy' according to your EULA. So, the backup is your abandonware, your original is your licence - all nice and legal.

There is a simple(ish) solution to this. The rights holders (usally the developers) release their abandonware online for a tiny amount (Shadow President for £0.10, Colonization for £0.25, Panzer General for £0.50) This would encorage the developers to a) dig out their old programs b) properly preserve them and c) find/write programs that will make it runable in the era of Vista.

How to pay, eh? My Barclycard isn't going to like having to pay £0.10 to a web page. In fact, I think it will refuse. So, there are 2 options. Firstly, you purchace, in advance a amount of credit from this store. You get an account, then as you shop, the money is deducted, rather like 'pay as you go' for mobile phones. The other option is that the price is added onto your 'phone bill. The technology is here to do either of these.

This idea isn't going to raise a hell of a lot of money, I agree. But it will be the using of a resorce (the games) that otherwise would be earning nothing. Also, they (the company) can use the retro site as free adspace for their new games (particulary remakes and sequels), and they could create forums that when the users post self-created addons, they become the companies property (just like Facebook) The best get put into the games for sale. This is the best comprimise that I can think of. Customers will have their games, and the companies will gain a little £, honor of fighting against piracy and a good deal of goodwill from retro gamers.

With consoles, I've gone to the stage of cannibalism. My SNES has allready eaten two of it's brothers....

I'd like to see a bunch of old classics crammed on one DVD and sold as a collection. It's more likely to sell those than individual games.

I'm guessing you could put nearly all the games of the C64 on a DVD. Add a friendly browser and voilà...

Making collection CD-Roms/DVD's is worth it too. However, the problem is that most of the 'ultimate classics' that people would want have have allready been realased (Civ II, Command & Conquer etc etc) Then there is the problem of distribution if you wanted to sell them the old-fashioned way. These discs are never going to get shelf space, let alone 'good' (ie visible at head hight) space.

There is the issue of genre and publisher rights. We have to admit, people, that at least 60% of games produced back then were completly shite. And this is coming from a person who owns an Atari Jaguar (ie an obsessive collector) The only people who will want this is for pure nostalga value.

Each genre has only a few 'classic' titles, and about the same number again of games worth a mention (revolutionary graphics, innotive plot, great playability) but not a true classic. The problem being that these titles are spread across many companies, the the exception of a few big names (EA, Ubisoft, Activision) who have aquired many rights to classic games over the years. To make a complete collection, they are going to have to deal with each other (yeh, right!) Only a very few companies actully hold enough gold to go it alone (an Maxis collection from EA springs to mind) These companies will squabble forever on who gets how much of the cake. Occasionly, we are not even sure who owns the rights anymore!

The other reason for not liking this idea is the fact that these CD's will proberly won't contain the rare games that we seek. It will contain the most popular ones that haven't been re-released. And apart from making it compatable for our era, they won't do anything with it, I suspect.

I still think that an on-line pic 'n mix of games is proberly the most viable. And who said it had to be sold? A concern like this may be able to become supported by ads alone, or a monthly subsription.

Izipo - Very feasable. How much can a tape hold? Any slouch in BASIC should be able to slap together a browser for it. I heard that a company called Alten8 or something is doing something like this.

I'd prefer the "legally download" option. The games don't even have to be made compatible and i need no support. Just make them available for a reasonable amount (say, 1-10 Euro). Include the manual as PDF/ASCII document, and i'll be happy.
Just don't make me chose between paying prices like for an collector's item, or getting them from an "abandonware" site. Vintage games are not like vintage cars; there's no reason to stop selling them, if one can do so for no additional cost.

@ Mr Fusty : Some very interesting ideas there.
My dream : A DVD holding all the games made for the C64. I put it in my PC and a friendly user interface starts in a window. It is a powerful search engine that allows me to fine tune my search to find a specific game. It also holds lists and is in fact much like a media player. I just click on the game I want to play and here it is : in a window on my PC. If I want to show a friend I just bring the DVD with me.

Now, is this possible ?
First, a warning : I'm not good with numbers, bits, bytes and whatnot. So, I may be off the mark by a good margin. Please point to my errors.

A 5 1/4 disk for the C64 holds 170 Kb which is 168 656 bytes, or 1 349 248 bits.
Let's assume a typical game is held on a single disk. A large margin, because I vividly remember having multiple games on the same disk.
Now, how many games were released for the C64. I didn't find the exact answer (but if you have it, do tell us, I'd very much like to know), databases hold between 5 000 and 30 000 games.
Let's go for 30 000 games ! 30k disks add to a total of 4 10^10 bits.:eek:
And guess what is the capacity of a single-sided single-layer DVD ? 4.04 10^10 !!:)
Theoretically, its possible !
Unless I'm wrong. Sorry if I made a huge mistake (because honestly, I'm surprised by the result).

http://www.the-underdogs.info/index.php

Good site for abandonware, freeware, and other assorted free games.

Careful there carmen. You are treading on slippery ground. The moderators may not look favorably on people posting such links.

I'm pretty sure its legit. (AKA read legal)

Anything that is (still) copyrighted that you download is only a free trial or a demo.

Underdogs is the greatest resource for gamers. It's a labor of love, and I love that site.

Hello again

The term 'abandonware' has not been defined, either in law or anywhere else. People have defined it as;

1) Any program over x years old (often 10)
2) Any program no longer offically supported.
3) Any program no longer produced officaly.
4) A weasel word - it is really piracy.

So, Civ II is AW according to 1), possibly AW under 2), but not AW under 3), after the Civ Collection came out. Panzer General is AW according to all three definitions.

Computer programmes are copywrited for 95 years from creation. Not just the logo or name, the source code too. Work out the conclusion for yourself.

What has allowed AW to survive is simply that most companies can't be bothered to fight against it. Off the top of my head, the only companies that truly guard against AW is Microsoft and LucasArts. As I said before, some 90% of AW sites will remove programmes after an e-mail from the programme owner asking for them to remove it. As an experiment, try finding the two game examples I have listed.

The reason that I have advocated a bit of adaption of the games is so that they are worth buying. Who will buy a coffee for £1 when the same coffee is free 30 seconds away? It will encorage people from AW sites to join this legal site and add their enthusiasm and skills to the place. CivFanatics is a brilliant example of what enthusiasm, skill and dedication can do.

Onto the C64.

I wish I could tell you how many games were made for the C64, but nobody seems to know. We need to remember back then that it was easy for tiny companies and individuals to create games, then sell them through the classifed ads in the back of computing magazines. Although a few companies started out like this (Codemasters is an excellent example) most fell by the wayside, along with their games. It's a somewhat similar situation to the pre-Pentium PC games.

I've done a quick check on the maths, and it seems to be correct (although I am rather rusty) What I think of though;

1) Bet most games didn't fill their 170KB space to the brim.
2) Don't think they had compression capabilites then.
3) How many of the 30K of games are crappy clones, godawful homebrew and foreign language editions?

In laymans terms, C64's speak a dialect of BASIC. So does DOS, Amigas, BBC Micros and Spectrums. Although I am no expert on programming, I don't see a reason why, with modifications, one version can't run on another. I seriously suspect that this is how they make emulators.

The main concern is that the size of the damm thing. If we are talking in GB's, a download is a non-starter. And if we want to save (which I will), it would have to be installed on a hard drive. Only the most serious gamer would want that on their system. Also, what if I want to have a random game? It would take years, possibly decades to try every game. :rolleyes:

My solution is this - the .exe is seperate, and the games are downloadable in batches of, say 50-100 grouped in genre (along with manuals) would be better, at least when it came to downloading it. There will be nothing stopping you burning that onto a CD or putting it on a USB drive.

I'm no real fan of emulators - I am more into owning the actual system. But I know that it's even less practical than owning a old PC.

Populous: The Beginning. For being so old it has much better graphics than most new games. In my opinion.

On Gametap, they have Myst the original for free until December 31st.

And they also have several NES classics. :D

Does Myst work on XP without extra programs like Dosbox?

I've installed Tomb Raider 2 again - great fun. :)

For Gametap's Myst, yes it doesn't require anything, except the game client.

I know 4 and 5 are fairly new and 1-3 remakes aren't so old either but Exile/Avernum. Ones of the best RPGs out there. All have huge demos (1/4 of each game is playable for free) and they really don't cost that much, Blades of Exile is even open source, and they don't take much disk space.

The graphics have never been great but you don't need them after 5 minutes of playing. The world is completely different and you can wander freely in it, no canyons.

UnderDogs have complied with EULA request for removel of games from there website in the past. Any game currently still being SOLD is not avaliable for download.

Lessee.... Some of my old-arse games include:

DooM
DooM II (actually moded versions thereof, although I still have the CD-ROMs for them as well)
Sim City 2000
Hexxagon
Jill of the Jungle (shareware)
Highway Hunter
Dark Forces
X-Wing Collector's CD-ROM (can't get it to run under windows, but it runs under DOS Box)
TIE Fighter Collectors CD (same deal, there)
Terminal Velocity
Scorched Earth (gad I love that game!)
Dune 2000
ALL the old Command and Conquer games (C&C, C&C Red Alert, and the expansions for both)
Oh, and Wolfenstein 3D (the ORIGINAL FPS)

Thankyou! Thankyou Hikaro Takayama! Your Jill of The Jungle - where did you get it? Was in a complimation CD-ROM? I've been trying to remember the name of that game for a decade!

I just installed TIE fighter again. The win95 version is annoying because it refuses to start without a joystick. The dos version allowed me to play with a mouse.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's played Terminal Velocity. I asked it in the video game quiz once and it effectively stumped everyone.

Thankyou! Thankyou Hikaro Takayama! Your Jill of The Jungle - where did you get it? Was in a complimation CD-ROM? I've been trying to remember the name of that game for a decade!

I got the shareware version from some ol' floppy disk somewheres.... Since the version I have is shareware, I suppose I could send you the ZIP file, although you can buy the game from Epic for a song and dance.... It'll run under windows XP, but without any sound.... It works perfect under DOSbox, though.

Funny story about that game: That game has been installed on every single PC I ever owned... Currently the backup for it is on one of my 1.3 GB MO Disks and an old CD-ROM somewhere.

I also can't believe I forgot to mention this (kinda embarrasing, really), but I also have a copy of Masters of Orion II.....

Thanks very much. I had mine on a shareware CD-Rom years ago, and I couldn't remember the name of the game or of the CD-Rom. Sheer luck that you managed to prompt my memory like that!

Well, I've looked around and I can't seem to find a shareware available...how big would it be as a .zip or a .rar?

You might have luck with the sound if you install VDMSound then when on the .exe, select run with VDM Sound. It doesn't allways work, but it's worth a try. The only problem with it is that I havn't worked out how to make a shortcut for the .exe have the same option.

Actually, like I said, all those old games of mine run perfectly in DOSBox....

As for the size of Jill of the Jungle shareware.... The unzipped version will just barely fit on a floppy disc (1.4 MB), so RARed should be under the attachment size limit.....

I do love DOSBox. I even went to the trouble to email the creator to thank them for it. Nearly as good as this OpenOffice that I picked up last month (Billy - I'm never coming back!) It's just you mentioned that you were having sound problems, and if I remember correctly, the game had some quite cool synth music and FX.

If it isn't too much trouble to ask, could you send me it as an attachment?

C&C :) One of the select few games that have been on every computer I have ever possesed. I was so dissapointed when I first played Generals :sad:

No, I meant that when I ran Jill of the Jungle under WINDOWS XP I had sound troubles... It runs PERFECTLY under DOS Box. I'll attach it tonight when I get home. (I had class and a bunch of other stuff to do last night, and didn't even get on the computer at all).

Sorry about the delay, but here's the shareware version of Jill of the Jungle:

Sorry for the delay, but have been away from civilization for a bit. Ta very much:)