I waqs playing as Boudica the other day and built up for an axe rush. I had duns in my cities by the axemen weren't getting the geurilla promotion. Is it only available to untis that are able to access it? I thought it was all units built in the city no matter what category.

I think it only works for the categories which can get Guerrilla I, which I think are archery units, recon units (scouts and explorers) and gunpowder. The Gallic Warrior doesn't get it from the dun; it's his special trait. I suppose it's good if you like to build cities on hills, but it's pretty weak for a unique building.

Indeed, Dun doesn't benefit any melee units. Explorers start with Guerilla I as well, and I doubt you're building Scouts when you have Duns, so it's most often limited to Archery units (and some Gunpowder units depending on your research directions).

Guerrilla III is the promotion you want in combination with the Dun as it gives your units 50% withdrawal chance, you basically use those units to weaken tough defenders. Since both leaders are charismatic that's only 4XP away.

Good thing none of the Celt have the Protective trait... you can imagine how sick those defenders would be.

Guerrilla III is the promotion you want in combination with the Dun as it gives your units 50% withdrawal chance, you basically use those units to weaken tough defenders. Since both leaders are charismatic that's only 4XP away.

Good thing none of the Celt have the Protective trait... you can imagine how sick those defenders would be.
I always forget, does the promotion work when attacking FROM or into a hill?

Attacking to a hill, not from a hill.

And kniteowl - which units would you love to give that Guerilla III ? I prefer using Gallic Warriors to attack cities (promote them on Guerilla track, then CR track, upgrade to maces), not Archers, Longbows, or Crossbows. Archery units still benefit from free Guerilla I for defensive purposes, but it's not really that big a deal.

Generally Gunpowder units and the UU, too bad the UB obsoletes with Rifling, they should make it not obsolete, after all it is underpowered in my opinion so mostly Grenadiers attacking hills. Free Promos from Drafted Muskets are nice also especially with Boddica.

Lets face it the Bodecia UU and UB are a bit substandard as the traits are so good. If she had a cool UU and/or UB she could be a bit overpowered.

I play Brennus rather than Boudica - due to Spiritual trait. However, the more this argument is used "the traits are so strong that substandard UU and/or UB is necessity" the less I believe in it.

I think different parts of the bonuses should be obsoletable with different techs. Eg. sure Economics could obsolete the trade effect of Castle, but shouldn't the defensive bonus rather go with Gunpowder, espionage bonus with eg. constitution (which reduced the effect of castles as administrative structures), and so on? Similarly, defensive effect of walls could go with Rifling, while the Dun unique bonus shouldn't obsolete. At least some units have similar training still that effectively grants them hill combat bonus (albeit not limited to hills or it might have been replaced by different type of training).

In case someone knows how to mod Duns' unique bonus to stay after Walls otherwise obsolete, I would certainly like to hear (so I could mod my own game to retain that).

I don't feel either the UU or the UB are substandard. Granted, they're not the dazzling display of power that some others are, but they're worthwhile in their spheres.

The Dun is subpar, but can be effective. I find I am building the Dun more often than a normal wall - and I try to settle hills to grab full advantage of it.

I play Brennus rather than Boudica - due to Spiritual trait. However, the more this argument is used "the traits are so strong that substandard UU and/or UB is necessity" the less I believe in it.

Well, in any case, Brennus and Boudica are worth playing in spite of their UB because of their traits. Honestly, can you do much better than Spi/Chr or Agg/Chr?

Well, in any case, Brennus and Boudica are worth playing in spite of their UB because of their traits. Honestly, can you do much better than Spi/Chr or Agg/Chr?

Fin/Org will do better isolated. So will Fin/Cre or Cre/Chm, Fin/chm or Phi/chm

All leaders and civs are worth playing. Spi/Chr is very nice, but I think Spi/Agg of Monty is better than Agg/Chr of Boudica, and I really like Organized too so Asoka and Napoleon with Spi and Chr combining that are nice, as is Hammurabi (especially with his Bowman UU), and... OK - I can't really name one best trait combination. Given enough time I'll probably end up looping through most of them.

Also, I like Gallic Warrior (and I like Jaguar - so sue me, the two swordsman replacements left in the Praetorian shadows are IMHO very nice units). Dun I feel is subpar, although not because of function but rather because of being obsoleted. If the Dun survived to Modern age, I'd consider it OK UB. Not really powerful (Rathaus is very powerful, as is Sacrificial Altar, and...) but still OK.

Based on above you probably guessed already that I feel the same way about Citadel? OK, but unique trait obsoletes too fast.

I think it only works for the categories which can get Guerrilla I, which I think are archery units, recon units (scouts and explorers) and gunpowder. The Gallic Warrior doesn't get it from the dun; it's his special trait. I suppose it's good if you like to build cities on hills, but it's pretty weak for a unique building.


Well then what the #%&! is the point of gunpowders getting it, if the dun obselete after gunpowder???

Don't duns go obsolete after Rifling, same as walls?

Yes, it obsoletes at Rifling. So you can get Guerilla Musketmen and Grenadiers. I would like getting Guerilla Riflemen, Infantry, Marines...

You can mod the Dun to never obsolete by going into the XML files, just make it obsolete "NONE".

I personally think Boddica is pretty sick if she reaches the Res Age, if you can combine Barracks, WP, Civics and GGs to produce 13XP gunpowder units that's a level 5 unit capable of promoting straight to combat 5... that's pretty sick and if you have any Naval wars once you reach steel for cheap drydocks that give 4XP to naval units and Cha Civs only need 4XP for a level 3 unit (2 cheap Promotions)

The most overpowered leader currently in my opinion is Darius, the traits may suit his history but combining the most synergetic economy traits with a fast city conquering UU... very powerful, arguably overpowered.

I personally think Boddica is pretty sick if she reaches the Res Age, if you can combine Barracks, WP, Civics and GGs to produce 13XP gunpowder units that's a level 5 unit capable of promoting straight to combat 5... that's pretty sick and if you have any Naval wars once you reach steel for cheap drydocks that give 4XP to naval units and Cha Civs only need 4XP for a level 3 unit (2 cheap Promotions)

Combat V can't hold a candle to stacks of commando promoted units, but I get your drift. ;)