I never ran an SE economy but I'm on a continent with Julius Ceaser that is ideally for an SE. I wiped Ceaser out with a Quencha rush and now it is just me and I have nobody to trade with until I get optics. So is this possible or do I have to use a CE. Just wondering anyones thoughts on this. Thanks.

Yes and it helps a lot if you get Pyramids. I often bail early on isolated starts as they tend to be relatively boring but when I play them it is usually an SE economy geared toward a culture win.

Ever ran one? Yes.

Ran a good one without building the Pyramids? Still working on my technique.

If you are Isolated, and the Inca, and DON'T get the Pyramids... definitely run a CE instead of an SE (run specialists where you have the extra food but focus on cottages)

if you Do get the Pyramids, then an SE is a reasonable option

An SE economy? No because that would be a Specialist Economy economy and I don't know what that is.

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Yeah, I was intimidated by the SE at first but once you get used to it, they are really nice, and a lot of fun. Even without the pyramids and being philosophical, they still work quite well. Just remember to settle as many great people as possible in your capital.

You are financial, so I would seriously think of going CE, but if the island is as perfect as you describe, perhaps now is the time to try a SE out :D

Yeah, I love running SE, but I always end up being unable to keep up in military production and getting destroyed when my neighbors get gunpowder. I should probably be switching out of it around that time though, to avoid this, but it's a delicate situation, and it can take a while to transition from an SE to a CE.

If you're on your own continent though, it should be much easier to stay out of wars without much of a standing army (although you'll still need good coastal defenses, those amphibious invasions can be devastating).

Hell yeah I have run SEs. In fact I pretty much only run SEs now that i have got the hang of it. But if you are playing hyan tupac or whatever his name is, a CE is your best bet. financial is really a CE thing. Most traits are SE/CE neutral but financial is clearly a CE trait just as philo is clearly a SE trait.

Hell yeah I have run SEs. In fact I pretty much only run SEs now that i have got the hang of it. But if you are playing hyan tupac or whatever his name is, a CE is your best bet. financial is really a CE thing. Most traits are SE/CE neutral but financial is clearly a CE trait just as philo is clearly a SE trait.

That sounds about right to me. That leaves me with a conundrum. What to do when playing as Liz? She's fin & philo. I suspect hybrid is the answer. But at some point you really have to commit primarily to emphasizing one or the other, government civic wise. Universal Suffrage turns those heavily cottaged rich cities into rich cities with a huge production boost at the expense of all that research from the specialists. However do other players run a Liz game?

Liz is the easiest because you can go either way. I think most people do run a hybrid. Unless you are going at 90-100% science a SE is better. The lower on the science scale you are the better your sceintists are. especially if you are in representation. The higher you get up the science slider though, CE's are better. With Liz you have that option of going phil when you are warring and expanding so that the scince slider can stay low and you still have outstanding research.Later in the game when your economy is getting better and (if you are going for space race) you are ready to put that scince slider back up you can run the democracy civs to let your cottages grow quickly into powerhouse towns.

That sounds about right to me. That leaves me with a conundrum. What to do when playing as Liz? She's fin & philo. I suspect hybrid is the answer. But at some point you really have to commit primarily to emphasizing one or the other, government civic wise. Universal Suffrage turns those heavily cottaged rich cities into rich cities with a huge production boost at the expense of all that research from the specialists. However do other players run a Liz game?

BtS has really blurred the line between CE and SE in the later stages of the game (i.e. once corporations are available). The food corporations and, to a more localised extent, the national park, allow much greater numbers of specialists, and increasingly mixed cities. It's not uncommon anymore that a city can work 20 cottage, and have a number of specialists on top of it. This is where Lizzy is a strong candidate for the best leader.

As to Representation vs. Universal Sufferage, it's quite a difficult choice. An important point though is that the ability to cash rush is the more powerful element of US, not the hammers from cottages. Once Cristo Redentor is around it is possible to run Representation, and still get cash rush by switching into US for a turn occasionally. With a spiritual leader an inferior form of this trick can be run much earlier.

I tend to prefer Representation until the very last phase of the game, when research loses its relevance, and production becomes key to conquer the world.

What the Hell does "SE" mean?

South East.....
perhaps Specialist Economy tho.
Where instead of building lots of cottages, you conentrate on food resources and farms and simply use specialists in your cities to generate beakers. Such as Scientists or Merchants or maybe Priests.

Yeah, I love running SE, but I always end up being unable to keep up in military production and getting destroyed when my neighbors get gunpowder. I should probably be switching out of it around that time though, to avoid this, but it's a delicate situation, and it can take a while to transition from an SE to a CE.

If you're on your own continent though, it should be much easier to stay out of wars without much of a standing army (although you'll still need good coastal defenses, those amphibious invasions can be devastating).

You have slavery, with SE you have a lot of food to grow back. You can use slavery a lot until everyone else has emancipation but then you have levees, factories... maybe even mining inc:)

You have slavery, with SE you have a lot of food to grow back. You can use slavery a lot until everyone else has emancipation but then you have levees, factories... maybe even mining inc:)

Interesting, I generally use Caste System with an SE, as I figure I want as many specialists as possible, and as much population as possible (so whipping would be a no-no).

I'll have to try it with slavery next time, though.

This is a big problem I always have when I try to perform a SE: switching to Caste System without totally gimping my production. I'm sure a little bit of preparation in advance (for example, constructing workshops) would be sufficient, but I still end up floundering in production.

Lizzy is really my favourite leader because of her traits. I love building super cities, and Fin fits with the cottage cities I make and philo with the Spec cities I make.

There's also the production model SE. You run 2 scientists in all cities (even your production cities) and you have a much greater percentage of production cities... as much as 90%.

This also lets you run Serfdom, which is underrated by most people.

Wodan

There's also the production model SE. You run 2 scientists in all cities (even your production cities) and you have a much greater percentage of production cities... as much as 90%.

This also lets you run Serfdom, which is underrated by most people.

Wodan

I don't think I ever use serfdom.

Then there are strats you haven't explored. :D

Wodan

I can do it (my best performance with one was a Monarch, no fighting, no cottages game with Lincoln) but I hate it. CE is much more fun for me.

You are financial and isolated. Run a CE

Then there are strats you haven't explored. :D

Wodan


what strats would that be?

what strats would that be?
Anything that uses serfdom.

If you don't need Caste System, and would rather grow your cities than whip them down, then Serfdom becomes an obvious good choice. It allows you to make fewer workers, which reduces maintenance.

I have a strat I've been perfecting which I mentioned earlier, which is a production SE. As I mentioned, most of your cities are production cities. Run 2 scientists in all cities, even production cities. That's where you get your science. They're production cities, so you have plenty of hammers and don't need or want to whip... you want slow growth in your cities to keep pace with your gradual increase in happy/health limit as techs allow more benefits. Generally with this strat I do one of two things... either I keep going with the SE and go warmonger eary and mid-game, or else I do a SE->CE switch as Emancipation becomes available. Serfdom helps that conversion.

That's just one example, but again serfdom is of all around general use and allows you to waste less time building workers as well as to get by with fewer workers, which reduces unit maintenance.

Wodan

Serfdom is great especially in a large empire where you with lots of unimproved tiles, or when you wanna switch to for example a cottage economy as you said. And also when it's time to build your railroads.