I've recently bought BTS and have been reading post after post after post to get some good strategies on all the new content. The National Park Wonder seems to be one of the top debated issues. After reading and re-reading everyones responses, I have an idea. Feel free to test this along with me as I have not had the chance.

National Park -


Removes access to Coal from the city


No :yuck: from Population


+1 Free Specialist per Forest Preserve


+1 :gp: Great Scientist per turn


Forest Preserve -


Worker Improvement in an unimproved Forest or Jungle tile only


City can work a Forest Preserve tile


Forest Preserve increases the chances of spreading Forests to nearby unimproved tiles


+1 :) to nearby cities for Each Forest Preserve


+1 :commerce: along River


+2 :commerce: for the Environmentalism civic


I don't believe I left out anything so....let's begin!

First off, the National Park Wonder and the Forest Preserve Improvement come into play late in the game. The set-up for this idea, however, needs to be started much, much sooner...

Terrain -


That ugly, almost useless, Tundra tile


Almost NO Hills, Snow, or Water of any kind (Except Rivers)


Bonus tiles are ok, like Deer or Fur, but not needed


Building's Needed -


Bank +50% :gold:

Required to build Wall Street




Granary

Stores 50% of :food: after Growth


+1 :health: from Corn, Rice, and Wheat




Grocer +25% :gold:

Can turn 2 Citizens into Merchant


+1 :health: from Banana, Spices, Sugar, and Wine


Required to Build Supermarket




Market +25% :gold:

Can turn 2 Citizens into Merchant


+1 :) from Fur, Ivory, Silk, and Whale



National Wonders -


National Park +3 :culture: +1 :gp: Great Scientist

Details listed above




Wall Street +100% :gold: +1 :gp: Great Merchant

Can turn 3 Citizens into Merchant



Civic's Needed -


Caste System

Unlimited Artists, Scientists, and Merchants




Environmentalism

+25% Maintenance Costs from Corporations


+6 :health: in All Cities


+2 :commerce: from Windmill and Forest Preserve


+2 :health: from Public Transportation



Strategy -

The basic idea behind this strategy is to put to good use those unsightly Tundra tiles that are of almost no practical use instead of wasting 20 useful Plains or Grasslands tiles on the National Park. Start the game like you normally would with a few good cities and make sure to have a good start-up GP Farm to start pumping out Merchants. Settle a city right in the middle of 20 or so Tundra Forest tiles that produce +1 food +1 hammer and preferably with a River running through it for extra commerce. The city will not grow at first because of the lack of food, but as your Great Merchants are born from your other GP Farm, settle them in this city for the +1 food +6 gold bonus. Eventually as more and more Great Merchants settle in the city, the more tiles you'll be able to work and the more hammers's you'll be able to use for buildings. Once you can start using the Forest Preserve improvement and build the National Park, the results will start to show...

With Caste System in place you'll be able to have 20 FREE Merchants doing nothing but adding wealth and GP points creating more and more Great Merchants to settle back into the city.

End Result -


20 Great Merchants settled into the city


20 Free Merchants


20 Base Hammers (without any other building modifier)


40 Base Commerce (without River tiles)


Without any other World Wonder or Religion's Shrine adding gold to the city, you'll end up with over 540 :gold: per turn from just 1 city!!! (20 Free Merchants X 3 gold = 60, 20 Great Merchants X 6 gold = 120, 60 + 120 = 180, 180 + 25% (Market) + 25% (Grocer) + 50% (Bank) + 100% (Wall Street) = 540). Not bad from 20 tiles of Tundra.

The Tundra idea is a good one that other posters have mentioned as well.

I'm not all that keen on using Wall Street the way you advocate, however, unless the National Park city also happens to be a holy city. The reason is because when I have a holy city, I do what you suggest: stack merchants and settle the great ones. However, the real windfall is when you build a shine for the religion and spread it around. Then, when you get corporations, set up a few headquarters in there too.

My last game's double shrine/triple HQ /6ish Great Merchant city was pulling in over 1000 gold per turn at one point. Probably more, never bothered to check.

I agree with it needing to be a Holy/Corp HQ city as well for the added :gold:. I seem to always start near Tundra and never settle a city in it only to be over-ran by the barbarians that don't seem to mind the climate. I thought this to be a good alternative/option of using the National Park instead of sticking a useless city on that terrain for one or two tile bonus' and blocking the pesky unwanted barbarian march to my capital. It would be quite easy to isolate the city and force a religion to be founded, as well as build hammer bonus buildings among other beneficial things. But for only 6 buildings ever needing to be built, I thought a base :gold: value of 540 would be outstanding. Plus, I can save the better terrain tiles for more useful things. Bottom line, Wall Street needs to be in your Holy/Corp HQ city regardless and I hate trying to make my capital the Wall Street/Oxford U combo EVERY time. Just seems to be less efficient and require a ton of buildings to max out the benefit when I could be building an army or WW's instead.

I don't think I've ever built Wall Street and Oxford in my capital or in any other city for that matter. I guess it's because I never gun for an early religion.

A long time ago when I was confused between :commerce: and :gold: I got into that habit. Hard thing to break. Also, I almost always get a Civ with Mysticism as a starting Tech on random and I usually cottage spam my capital with the intention of staying on Bureaucracy.

A long time ago when I was confused between :commerce: and :gold: I got into that habit. Hard thing to break.

Which habit?

Also, I almost always get a Civ with Mysticism as a starting Tech on random and I usually cottage spam my capital with the intention of staying on Bureaucracy.

Even if I start with Mysticism, I still don't bother trying to get an early religion. It's certainly doable on Emperor+, but not consistent enough in my mind to make it worthwhile.

And yes, I cottage spam my capital if it's suitable for it. That's why it gets Oxford unless I have a better science city up and running.

As for the holy/HQ city, I either shepherd a religion's founding in a city I want it in, or just conquer the holy city outright.

That brings up a good point...

180 base :gold: with 6 buildings and nothing else...

For Example sake you have 12 cities (including this one) in your empire...

Add -


Holy City (1)


Corporation HQ (1)


Spiral Minaret (WW)


Levee (for argument sake 10 tiles are next to a river)


2 state religious buildings, corporation in each city, and a Cathedral


That gives an additional ...


+12 :gold: for Holy Shrine (more if other Civ's have Religion in their city)


+48 :gold: for Corporation (more if other Civ's have Corporation in their city)


+06 :gold: for Spiral Minaret WW


+30 :gold: for City building Wealth from :hammers:'s


That's an extra ...


96 :gold: added to 180 for 276. 276 X 3 = 828 :gold:


+36 :gold: per Extra Religious Shrine (assuming spread to all 12 domestic cities)


+144 :gold: per Extra Corp HQ (assuming spread to all 12 domestic cities)

Which habit?


Wall Street/Oxford U combo in my capital

Wall Street/Oxford U combo in my capital

Ah, okay.
.

The basic idea behind this strategy is to put to good use those unsightly Tundra tiles that are of almost no practical use instead of wasting 20 useful Plains or Grasslands tiles on the National Park. Start the game like you normally would with a few good cities and make sure to have a good start-up GP Farm to start pumping out Merchants. Settle a city right in the middle of 20 or so Tundra Forest tiles that produce +1 food +1 hammer and preferably with a River running through it for extra commerce. The city will not grow at first because of the lack of food, but as your Great Merchants are born from your other GP Farm, settle them in this city for the +1 food +6 gold bonus. Eventually as more and more Great Merchants settle in the city, the more tiles you'll be able to work and the more hammers's you'll be able to use for buildings. Once you can start using the Forest Preserve improvement and build the National Park, the results will start to show...

Putting a food corporation in the city (or even the HQ of a food corp) is a very quick way to get all twenty tiles in use rapidly, even in a tundra area. Waiting on multiple great merchants is a lot slower, and becomes an increasing waste of GP as the game goes on. Getting 20 great merchants will probably take almost all of the game, and it's a diminishing returns situation. I might not necessarily run all the specialists as merchant either (at least not all the time), but switch depending on which GP I want next. 540gpt may sound impressive, but as return on 20 great merchants it isn't very good. A couple of corporations will give more than that once fully fledged, and give other benefits besides.

That brings up a good point...

180 base :gold: with 6 buildings and nothing else...

For Example sake you have 12 cities (including this one) in your empire...

Add -


Holy City (1)


Corporation HQ (1)


Spiral Minaret (WW)


Levee (for argument sake 10 tiles are next to a river)


2 state religious buildings, corporation in each city, and a Cathedral


That gives an additional ...


+12 :gold: for Holy Shrine (more if other Civ's have Religion in their city)


+48 :gold: for Corporation (more if other Civ's have Corporation in their city)


+06 :gold: for Spiral Minaret WW


+30 :gold: for City building Wealth from :hammers:'s


That's an extra ...


96 :gold: added to 180 for 276. 276 X 3 = 828 :gold:


+36 :gold: per Extra Religious Shrine (assuming spread to all 12 domestic cities)


+144 :gold: per Extra Corp HQ (assuming spread to all 12 domestic cities)


Just a note here...the Spiral Miniot does not add gold to the city that built it. It adds two gold for each religious building of the state religion of the builder. The gold is added to the city that has the religious building (temple, monistary, cathedrial, etc.). They don't even have to be built by the same player who built the wonder. The same mechanic applies to the AP, UoS, and SC wonders for production, research, and culture respectively. The strategy is sound, but the SM can be built anywhere. You just have to build a temple, monistary, and cathedrial (or equivelant) for the appropriate religion in your financial capitol.

@OP You'll probably need a supermarket in the city too (+1 food in BTS).

Putting a food corporation in the city (or even the HQ of a food corp) is a very quick way to get all twenty tiles in use rapidly, even in a tundra area. Waiting on multiple great merchants is a lot slower, and becomes an increasing waste of GP as the game goes on. Getting 20 great merchants will probably take almost all of the game, and it's a diminishing returns situation. I might not necessarily run all the specialists as merchant either (at least not all the time), but switch depending on which GP I want next. 540gpt may sound impressive, but as return on 20 great merchants it isn't very good. A couple of corporations will give more than that once fully fledged, and give other benefits besides.

Glad you brought that up! I don't know much about the corporations yet nor what the benefits yield for each. After looking into it a little deeper, Sid's Sushi & Cereal Mills both require a Merchant to found. But they are competitor's, how does that exactly work?

Glad you brought that up! I don't know much about the corporations yet nor what the benefits yield for each. After looking into it a little deeper, Sid's Sushi & Cereal Mills both require a Merchant to found. But they are competitor's, how does that exactly work?

You only incorporate one of the two food corporations into your city, preferably Sid's Sushi, since you'll discover Medicine first and seafood is generally more plentiful than grains on most maps.

Just a note here...the Spiral Miniot does not add gold to the city that built it. It adds two gold for each religious building of the state religion of the builder. The gold is added to the city that has the religious building (temple, monistary, cathedrial, etc.). They don't even have to be built by the same player who built the wonder. The same mechanic applies to the AP, UoS, and SC wonders for production, research, and culture respectively. The strategy is sound, but the SM can be built anywhere. You just have to build a temple, monistary, and cathedrial (or equivelant) for the appropriate religion in your financial capitol.

Good catch! I didn't make it that clear that the National Park City didn't need to be the city to build the SM, just that the 3 religious buildings needed to be built there. I think you still have to be the one to build it though, I can't remember ever receiving the :gold: benefit for my buildings when another Civ built it first.

Again the original idea was to make a simple city that wouldn't require much effort building wise to generate a substantial amount of :gold: per turn. Tundra seemed fitting to me. Especially on smaller sized maps where the Plains and Grasslands could be of better use EARLIER in the game instead of setting it up for a National Park and leaving it sit half the game.

As far as how long it would take to generate 20 Great Merchants, if you coupled it with -

Pacifism

+100% :gp: in cities with state :religion:


+1 :gold: support cost per Military Unit


AND you have the Forest Preserves in place with 20 free Merchants, you are generating 124 :gp: per turn (60 for the free Merchants + 1 for Wall Street +1 for National Park X 2 for Pacifism) Not to mention any other modifiers from other WW's that you may have built.

I guess I'm just going to have to test this to see how practical it would be. I don't have much time these days to run a bunch of demo's and was hoping some other people that are more familiar with BTS did. But it seems to be getting shot out of the water without any testing at all. I appreciate everyone's comments, it added more to think about than I originally thought especially with corporations.

You only incorporate one of the two food corporations into your city, preferably Sid's Sushi, since you'll discover Medicine first and seafood is generally more plentiful than grains on most maps.

So to clarify...

If two corporations are competitors, only one may be founded in a single city, not both? But both can be spread to the same city like religions?

Example:

National Park City founds Sid's Sushi, your capital founds Cereal Mills. Can you spread Cereal Mills to the National Park City so BOTH benefits effect the city?

Again, I really haven't had the chance to play with corporations, I play on Marathon speed and haven't made it to that tech yet in my current game.

So to clarify...

If two corporations are competitors, only one may be founded in a single city, not both? But both can be spread to the same city like religions?

Example:

National Park City founds Sid's Sushi, your capital founds Cereal Mills. Can you spread Cereal Mills to the National Park City so BOTH benefits effect the city?

No, your city can only have one or the other, never both. Now, if you have a city that has Sid's Sushi and want to replace it with Cereal Mills, you can do so at cost, provided that you're not trying to replace the HQ.

Only being able to have one isn't a problem, you can get obscene populations with Sid's Sushi alone.

Two competing corporations may never be present in the same city. If you already have a branch of Sushi in a city, trying to spread Cereals there will replace the Sushi branch. If you've founded an HQ there, you can't even displace it with a competing corporation.

As to which food corporation to go for, it depends on the relative abundance of seafood and grain resources. Sushi generally comes out ahead on Archipelago, Big/Small, Hemispheres, Terra and most continent maps. Cereals is generally better on Pangaea.

As to the 20 great merchants time frame - I'm still very dubious as to whether that is worth doing. Even assuming pacifism and a Philosophical civ (presumably not the National Epic since then you won't be able to have both Wall Street and the Park), you'll be getting 62*3=186GPP per turn. Now even if you have had no prior great people, and don't generate any other than thee great merchants, that still requires 26500GPP at normal speed. So it would take 143 turns to get all 20. Given that you'll have some other GP produced both before and in parallel, it'll take much longer in practice.

The other issue is that it just doesn't seem a sound use of GP. If you just want to get all the tiles worked one great merchant to found Sushi will do the job. A max output of 1620gpt isn't good for 20 great merchants (and completely monopolising your GP - that's about two well spread corporations by comparison.

No, your city can only have one or the other, never both. Now, if you have a city that has Sid's Sushi and want to replace it with Cereal Mills, you can do so at cost, provided that you're not trying to replace the HQ.

Only being able to have one isn't a problem, you can get obscene populations with Sid's Sushi alone.

I just read MrCynical's write up, outstanding info on corporations IMO. I think I get it now...

I still like the idea of the Tundra National Park, but leaning more towards dropping National Epic with it and making sure I get a :food: Corporation spread to it instead. Thanks to everyone for helping me see this error on using Wall Street so inefficiently :) This is what these forums are for!

This is what these forums are for!

Hooray! :D

Yes, big props to MrCynical for his corporations article, it helped me tremendously in refining my strategy regarding them.

Two competing corporations may never be present in the same city. If you already have a branch of Sushi in a city, trying to spread Cereals there will replace the Sushi branch. If you've founded an HQ there, you can't even displace it with a competing corporation.

As to which food corporation to go for, it depends on the relative abundance of seafood and grain resources. Sushi generally comes out ahead on Archipelago, Big/Small, Hemispheres, Terra and most continent maps. Cereals is generally better on Pangaea.

As to the 20 great merchants time frame - I'm still very dubious as to whether that is worth doing. Even assuming pacifism and a Philosophical civ (presumably not the National Epic since then you won't be able to have both Wall Street and the Park), you'll be getting 62*3=186GPP per turn. Now even if you have had no prior great people, and don't generate any other than thee great merchants, that still requires 26500GPP at normal speed. So it would take 143 turns to get all 20. Given that you'll have some other GP produced both before and in parallel, it'll take much longer in practice.

The other issue is that it just doesn't seem a sound use of GP. If you just want to get all the tiles worked one great merchant to found Sushi will do the job. A max output of 1620gpt isn't good for 20 great merchants (and completely monopolising your GP - that's about two well spread corporations by comparison.
This is actually one of the best uses of the National Park/Wall Street. WS in a religious city is usually inefficient unless a special condition is present (huge map, 50+ cities, all with state religion, the religious city somehow has forests). Also, WS/Oxford in capital is inefficient since running merchants or scientists is not as strong as keeping the city specialized.

The true power of this strategy is with the Pyramids and Spiritual/Christo Redentor. Add in the representation beakers, and you have a decently powerful scientific city. Universal Sufferage allows you to buy WS, NP, and the buildings. So in essence you can found the city once you have sci method to build preserves, and still have it ready to go when Biology is reached. Then you can run 100% science + a profit to rush buildings, units, etc. with quick switches to US. Top it all off with founding a corp there, and you are set for the rest of the game, all from a useless bunch of tundra and jungle tiles.