Welcome to the 9th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 9th game in BTS the choosed leader was Tokugawa of the Japanese:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

Oh, the mr " The rest of the world may burn in hell, I just don't care " .... IMHO the more realistical LH of the game ( the only one that does not look like a cartoon picture ) and the more :aargh: AI ( someone described Toku AI as a waste of space... i tend to agree ) : A guy that doesn't trade even the most useless thing.... :wallbash:
But lets talk about Toku traits: Agg + Pro .... This traits together make a high yield war machine if used properly, adding to a superb UU ( IMHO that's the reason why Toku AI is so .... if he traded like mansa, no one would stand in his way after CS + Machinery ). If can mount a good infra , you can conquer the world easily with samurai or with drafted gunpowder units ( the traits give 3 promos to them.... )
Of course that comes with a drawback: the complete lack of economical/scientifical traits... a serious handicap in isolation.

His UU.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg
Oh, the samurai.... IMHO one of the 3 best UU of the game ( Preats, Immortals and them ).... A mace with drill I + 2 first strikes ( and with combat I , due to Agg trait ). I lost count of the times I smashed foes with them.... a good stack of them cuts like butter the enemies armies ( due to the FS ) and have quite decent chances even against more advanced units in cites.
In spite of that they look to come too early for a isolated start.... :cry:

His UB.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg
IMHO the worst part of Toku package.... a somehow beefed coal plant. In the same way that samurai got a boost in BtS ( with the free Drill I promo ) , the Shale got a downgrade with the power = :yuck: thing in BtS .... and having a extensive use of a unhealth generator in a isolated start is somehow problematic. Besides that it comes a little late....

So, here are the settings( from noble save ). Game is Fractal :
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg
And the start:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20IX/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg
A food resource ( and a calendar one ), woods ,coastal, a lake... seems pretty decent to me. It has enough food for whipping and drafting, and the woods and the hills can give a decent prod..... and that hill without forests is suspicious, isn't it?

About saves: As usual, pick the level you prefer in the end of the post. Deity save is in the next post.

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).

As was suggested by InvisibleStalke, I'll let some considerations about the map ,some hints and a evaluaiton of of the game dificulty . Open at your own risk :p
Star system ( * for very bad and ***** for Excelent )

The map*****
I loved this map the first time I saw it. Two isolated small continents in the northern hemisphere, with a chain of islands between them only acessible to the human player... ( reminds me vaguely the real Japan ) and a big southern continent. A good amount of small islands with resources will be a nice place for early wars

Our island ***
The island is not that good but it has all the necessary strategical reources ( some are in adjacent islands ). Some seafood, but :) limited

Neighbours****
A isolated Fin civ ( with another interesting trait... can't say which is because it would reveal the identity of the LH ) and two other in the big continent ( one of them is particulary agressive... ), with a Org LH as well in there ( with a interesting UU.... again can't say which is ). Space will be hard....

In general****
I think that is game is set for a complete warpath... the Fin civs will shoot for space and Toku has to use their military for stopping it. I bet that people will have lots of fun with this one


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!

P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)

Deity save below....

Another thing: I'm thinking in a special Xmas edition, but I'm short of good ideas... maybe a all isolated game ( all civs start isolated ) with assorted foes? Post suggestions please ( before that have fun with this one.... and "banzai!!!! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years)" )

Toku, up to the two of us now.

I'll try Monarch and, hopefully, smash the foes with samurais!
:deadhorse:

This seems like a fun game, I love Japan so I think I'll have a go with the Immortal save. Deity would be a bit too much for an isolated start, at least for me at the time being ;]

Thanks for making these threads, you pulled me out of my years of lurking this forum to actually posting!

Welcome to the posting side of the CFC, Rusten [party] :band: :cheers: I hope that you make a lot of good posts in here ;) and that you enjoy the game ( I think that this one will be particulary fun.... )

I'll go again at immortal, but probably will throw some wars unlike the Monty game. Capital looks very high production, but I think its worth it to take a turn exploring first.

Reporting in. I will go with monarch.

Immortal checkpoint 1

Pretty darn terrible game for me. I don't quite understand how I did so bad, as I purposely slowed down my expansion and got cottages up and running early on. The land IMO is pretty terrible, with almost no rivers. I ran out of things to build and stayed stagnant for a long time, having gone mining->BW->animal->pottery->towards hereditary rule. I think I would have fared ok had I gone for writing w/ libraries, ran specialists, used the silver, and be able to found a religion. I tend to think that settled specialists would be the way to go (and could have popped philosophy if not snagged confucianism). I might be able to recover, but we'll have to see (I don't think I will).

Anyway, heres my 1 AD screenshot.

165423

I'm back for more Lonely Hearts! Wow what a challenging setup - Toku gets all the free promotions, but does not seem to be a very dynamic leader to play with.

Here's my Monarch checkpoint

I agree with previous poster, the land is horrible - the lack of grassland tiles next to rivers is a killer. So there's marble, and that means one thing: grab the Oracle. took Metal Casting with the free tech, to build forges which will increase happiness with that silver resource.

After that, I got the Colossus up in Tokyo and that is probably going to be it for wonders for me until the Great Library. The Colossus I think is going to be key in keeping up research. Now I'm beelining Optics.

Monarchy for Hereditary Rule is a must ...I just don't see any other way to raise the happy caps this early. Pyramids, Great Wall and Stonehenge all fell extremely early for one other civ (Pyramids by turn 84!?!) ... someone has stone in their capital I guess.

I got that chain of islands mapped out but I'm not sure how to settle all this - the iron is all the way on the other side of our mainland, and the distance maintence for all these islands is going to be a killer. I'm thinking of actually moving the palace at some point. At least there is plenty of time to build up slowly before any threats.

@LlamaCat

YOur post reminded me that the AI's in my game built the wonders pretty quick. I'm not quite sure that I would have been able to get the oracle, or whether it would be worth it. I probably would have had to skip something (like animal) and just to get what, metal casting? Its a good tech but on immortal its better to just start your economy IMO.

As for my game, I've played much later to ~1100s and have recovered a lot. Someone took liberalism, but the main problem with my game is that nobody has found me :(. Its getting a little late for me to be able to trade education, and I had wanted to trade for philosophy and other techs. To win, I think I'll need the AI's to be mediocre all around, so that I can conquer or just catch up. A strong AI might do me in. But its really nice to have a game thats a significant challenge :goodjob:

Kinda forgot to make a write-up for the checkpoints (got so carried away) :) - but here are my thoughts so far anyway. Possibly somewhere between checkpoint 2 and 3 (up until 1800 AD).

Man, this game is friggin' hard. I've played my share of games on Immortal, but this one is the hardest yet. The land is as mentioned above terrible and the AI's make it even harder ;[ I just grabbed Astronomy and the trade routes boomed my economy a lot, but i still think I'm too far behind. My score is 2/3 of the top AI's (3rd to last) which is not horrible, but my tech is lagging behind badly. I can't decide whether to go assault a nearby civ with my samurai's quickly before they're completely outdated or to construct economy buildings i just unlocked (observatory, banks and so on).

The location of the nearby Islands was pretty unlucky too. The maintenance cost was really high, but I decided to settle 2 cities there regardless for the extra trade routes after researching currency. The starting Island is pretty bad too. I have done close to none cottaging due to low-food cities. The ones with fish have no juicy grassland or space and the ones with grassland lacks good food resources.

Basically my current situation isn't that hot, so I think I'm going to have to risk it and assault another LH (you'll know who if you're there yet). Maybe hope for a capitulation and gain techs.

I'll try the Emperor save and report back.

Turn 0: Ugh! No seafood and I got Fishing. Moving the Warrior 1 NW reveals Marble, so I decide to trade the Silk for the Marble and settle Kyoto on the mysterious hill, losing the health bonus for an extra hammer. God so many plains! And trees! And nothing that my worker can initially do without losing turns! I decide to start a boat to explore. I'm definitively going to get Oracle, and those trees and gonna feed it. Since I'm still unclear on what my tech path will be, I'll research mining in the meanwhile, possibly BW next.

Turn 6: First hut brings gold, but next one pops Mysticism. Interesting.

Turn 25: I timed a warrior with pop.3 after the boat. 2 turns left now and I got BW. Need AH so I go Agro first. Most of the starting island revealed. It blows. Looks like food is going to be a problem. Worst of all, little seafood, and it's too spread out. I haven't switched to Slavery yet, but looks like I can't go whip happy either. I spotted a big river in the middle.Seems to me I'll be running CE. I see desert and I see tundra and ice... Oh god.

Turn 39: The Dutch civilization has been destroyed. WTF? But really, I guess it's for the best, at least if it was by barbarians... And not Huayna >_>

Turn 43: I finish Stonehenge in my capital with the help of two hill forests and a mine. Worker/Settler, I got to recover the lost time. Those GPriests are gonna get my capital going. Not planning for CoL, I'm gonna MC-Oracle this time.

Turn 60: Finished exploring. Could be better I guess. This is my dotmap (http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0001modat8.jpg). Like I said, I'm gonna go Oracle-MC-Colossus. So, I'll settle Yellow (Specialists) first, which will work a lot of water tiles, then I'll settle Black to hook up Copper for Colossus. Maybe White next to hook up Silver (mill city) and get :) from Forge, then Green (Cottage city) to get it going. The rest later. I got no experience with so many small islands so far away from capital, but they got good stuff. Added the save. I'll put some priority on Monarchy to HR the hell out of my cities.

Turn 79: Finished Oracle, grabbed MC. Worker/Settler to grab Black. 3 Warriors fogbusting.

Turn 85: GPriest arrives. Settled on Capital. Got Sailing.

Turn 117: I had finished Colossus some turns ago, and had some forests pre-chopped (1 turn of completion) near Kyoto, so what the hell, I decided to take a long shot. I switched to Slavery, and upon 1 turn of completion of the Lighthouse, I whipped it and put all those hammers on GLH. And guess what, I finished it (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0002vs6.jpg). Hur hur, now I got SH, Oracle, Colossus and GLH. Poor Willem must be rolling on his grave.

Turn 125: 2nd GPriest arrives. Settled again. Gold and hammers, baby. I'm moving White 2 NE with the the discovery of another Fish. Gray will be relocated to work the river later.

Turn 137: I raze a barb city far East. Some gold and a free worker.

Turn 184: First contact. Elizabeth (Fin/Phi) to the West, and very close. I trade her Compass for Monarchy and 20 gold. The trade gave me +4 with her, so it was uneven, but it was that, or Machinery for Monarchy+Alphabet+20 gold, and I don't want her to be building Macemen yet. Switching to HR. I think she's the one who's gonna get it first, but I still dunno how. Researching Civil Service. Need chain irrigation... And Samurais.

Turn 188: Meet Hannibal (Fin/Cha). Ugh, of all the leaders him. I hate his guts, he's so good. He has no contact with Liz, and has total tech lead over me, since I can't trade anything. He has Philosophy, and Civil Service. I think the Liberalism race is lost. I'm gonna have to hard tech to Astro :(

I also meet Suryavarman (Exp/Cre). I hate the green monkey from Mars. I trade him Compass for Calendar and a 15 gold.

Turn 193: The world is round: By Lonely Tokugawa. I meet Asoka (Spi/Org). I decide to trade Optics (and some gold) to Man for Construction and Horseback Riding. I'm gonna go medieval on Liz. Why him and not the Asoka? Hannibal and Man are buddy buddies (shared buddism), Hann and Asoka are worst enemies, I sincerely hope they go to war with him and not me, so I don't wanna piss him off. Liz seems to be isolated. Man is at the top of the charts, with twice my score, and probably twice my land if he's the leader. Yes, that's Man for you, the super expander.

I got a -4 with Asoka, but he's still cautious. Doesn't matter, He's annoyed at Hann and Man. I smell religious war. And keeping Hannibal out of Annoyed is good. PS: They got knights already.

Turn 194: I meet Bismarck (Exp/Ind), and he's annoyed because I traded with the other religious block. He shares Judaism with Asoka. He shares borders with Man and Asoka. I smell Bisteak.

Turn 199: Asoka discovers Liberalism. I knew it. I quit this one. :(

Turn 39: The Dutch civilization has been destroyed. WTF? But really, I guess it's for the best, at least if it was by barbarians... And not Huayna >_>


:lol:
Sounds like you started off well :goodjob:

Here is an unofficial checkpoint 2 for my Monarch game (sorry no pics)


I've met everyone else and in my game Willem is the second most powerful (he was destroyed in someone else's game...WTF?! that never happens to my games) Anyway the Khmer seem to be dominating along with the Germans. Carthage is a puny 3 cities, and that's good because he is the least easy to get along with in this bunch.

But how to proceed from here? I made some trades that got me a ton of techs .. Optics alone netted me something like 6 techs in one trade. But I'm still really behind and money is tight, and I still have not expanded beyond my main island. Asoka plopped a city on that island chain already.

*** In this isolated setup Toku is like playing a leader with no unique traits.

All these free promotions are useless until I somehow find a way to sail tons of Galleons with Macemen across a large ocean. But I'm many turns away from Astronomy still. Anyway I think there are only 2 ways to approach this:

1. Keep making nice with everyone (except Hannibal) and patiently hope for a UN victory later (would need a lot of luck)

2. Get Astronomy, drop research down to nothing, and launch an invasion at the tip of that big continent at Asoka. If I can get a foothold there, continue the assault through Germany and pray for domination victory. Hope Liz on the other continent stays out of it.

Here is an unofficial checkpoint 2 for my Monarch game (sorry no pics)


I've met everyone else and in my game Willem is the second most powerful (he was destroyed in someone else's game...WTF?! that never happens to my games) Anyway the Khmer seem to be dominating along with the Germans. Carthage is a puny 3 cities, and that's good because he is the least easy to get along with in this bunch.

But how to proceed from here? I made some trades that got me a ton of techs .. Optics alone netted me something like 6 techs in one trade. But I'm still really behind and money is tight, and I still have not expanded beyond my main island. Asoka plopped a city on that island chain already.

*** In this isolated setup Toku is like playing a leader with no unique traits.

All these free promotions are useless until I somehow find a way to sail tons of Galleons with Macemen across a large ocean. But I'm many turns away from Astronomy still. Anyway I think there are only 2 ways to approach this:

1. Keep making nice with everyone (except Hannibal) and patiently hope for a UN victory later (would need a lot of luck)

2. Get Astronomy, drop research down to nothing, and launch an invasion at the tip of that big continent at Asoka. If I can get a foothold there, continue the assault through Germany and pray for domination victory. Hope Liz on the other continent stays out of it.



I think the main strategy to win this by war would be:

Settle just the VERY important key cities, no matter if you waste land and a couple resources. Then take over Liz continent for yourself. She doesn't have a lot of resources there, BUT she has a lot of river and grassland tiles with villages and towns by the time you invade her. You should be able to militarily dominate her because she won't have much production. Then you could build a Forgotten palace there, possibly move your palace to the center of your island. The thing is, to use this strategy you will most likely have to rollback and replay (I will), because without that knowledge, you probably settled some filler cities already by the time you get her explored and it's likely you won't be able to maintain an economy with all those cities and no economical traits.

@Duende29

I agree - I will replay it too. The land isn't good enough for turtling. I made the mistake to settle too many mediocre cities in my game and got so badly behind in tech that I think I'm just going to give up :blush:

Think I'll step it down another notch to Emperor too, hopefully it will still be challenging. Immortal for this map is extremely difficult. Guess I'll start tonight or maybe postpone it until tomorrow night (exam tomorrow) :sad:

Duende29:

but what would conquering Liz achieve? it is not nearly enough land and population for a domination victory. You still need to attack the main continent to the south at some point, so I am thinking just attack the main continent first and win quicker that way. Unless you are advocating a late-game space victory?

By the way I forgot to mention I have already moved my palace to the city in the middle of my island.

Well I missed out on the Monty game, Call of Duty 4 and a resurgent interest in MP civ4 have been taking their toll on my time. And oh yeah I think I had some final exams in there some where. :lol: I will try this one on monarch when I get a chance.

It's been really a long time since I played, but I thought I'd pick it up again.

(bought a new PC in last few months and been spending all my time tweaking/overclocking/benchmarking it and seeing how fast civ4 will run with 24x Anti-Alaising etc. :devil:).

Anyways, since I've never played with the Japanese (and haven't played civ4 period in months), and since Agg/Pro really doesn't give much help at all in an isolated start, I'm toning it down and playing on Monarch for this round.

Here's some shots: (warning 1280x1024)

1920BC:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot0000-3.jpg

1AD:
(some cities are small due to whipping)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot0002-3.jpg

Capital (1AD)
Managed to build 5 wonders, no pyramids tho :(

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot0004-2.jpg

@LlamaCat

Her land, full of matured cottages and grasslands, will pay for itself soon, increasing your research output. You can build up an invasion before hitting Astro, and it would be ok, because you would be using them for :) with HR. That extra research will help you later get the key techs for a more advanced gunpowder army to hit the big continent, easier than tacking them head on and hoping for the best, since they:

1. Are far away.
2. They got tech lead.
3. Except for Hannibal, there are a lot of cities to take.

I got confused and continued on a new post. Sorry

Took immortal:
Difficult start,settled on the plains hill for some early city square production (got lucky with the fish not being wasted). Since worker would have nothing todo except building roads i started with warriors for fogbust, timing the warrior for completion with AH.Researched to writing asap as there's no free research (Gold, rivers for cottages) nearby. Plan is to assign as much scientists as possible to avoid stagnating completely. I'll settle the silver soon as every bit of happiness and commerce'll help on this barren island. Monarchy is high on the priorities list now.

I'm not sure if i'll try liberalism this time, i have to get it around 1000-1100 AD or so,if research turns out to be very slow i may switch to the Astronomy line after civil service not bothering with specialist but working cottages.

The only chance of winnning i can see is conquering some better land later on. It all boils down to beating a civ with good land to rifling and i'll prepare for this to the max by building theaters and globe before getting there.Toku can draft super strong gunpowder units but if every civ has rifling (or mil science) once i get there i'm very pessimistic because this island is not nearly good enough for a win on it's own.

I'm not a fan of the aggressive trait but it helps nicely against the barbs, not as much casualties.

<hackers killed uploads>

Anyway, I restarted on my first save, since I want that civ destroyed :P

Turn 100: I build GLH in Kyoto. This won't benefit me right away, but denying it to the big continent is important. I also had previously built the Oracle, using it on Metal Casting. I didn't grab CoL because someone had already claimed Confusianism.

Turn 104: The Colossus is built on Osaka. Work begins on Moai. Both will benefit greatly this city.

Turn 108: Someone grabs Christianity. I had planned to bulb this with my next GPriest, but I guess it'll just be impossible to grab a religion before launching. That pisses me off, because I doubt I'll be able to get Philo before someone else does. I switch to Iron Working. I'll beeline Optics and get trades before I'm too obsolete. Hopefully I'll be able to trade up to Theology and bulb Divine Right. So far I've grabbed CoL to help my economy.

Turn 167: First contact. Liz. I trade her Compass for Monarchy. I switch to HR.

Turn 172-173: Meet Hannibal. I trade him MC for Calendar and Hunting first, then Machinery for Currency and Alphabet.

Turn 174: Meet Suryavarman. I trade him Compass and Machinery for Feudalism, Poly, Archery and gold. Getting Feudalism shaves 2 turns out of Civil Service, which I'm researching to start my Samurai army. Feudalism also unlocks Vassalage, which I shall use to buff my army and overcome Liz.

Turn 175: I discover that the world is round. So I trade Hannibal Optics for Construction and Mono. I'll need siege. I do the same with Man and grab Horseback Riding and Aesthetics. Now I'm on par on techs with them. I meet Asoka. He's ahead, with Guilds already, but no Optics. Too bad that my previous trades made him mad at me and he won't trade zilch.

Checkpoint 2: (turn 177): I meet Bismarck, the last leader. He's mad at me too, but he's only ahead by CS. This concludes Checkpoint 2 I guess, since Willem is dead. We have Asoka and Biz sharing Judaism, this time around, Hannibal has Taoism and Man has Buddhism. Liz grabbed Confusianism and I'm an atheist. Islam still free, but I don't feel like it. Liberalism is moot, Asoka has all Theo, CS, Philo and I still have to wait 8 turns for CS. I think I'll just get Engineering for Trebs and pikes and get to Astro to conquer Liz ASAP. I popped an Engineer earlier, but decided to hold it. I think I'll use it to hurry Notre Dame and get the :) I so desperately need. The tech gap isn't huge with Man who is on top, but Asoka is teching fast.

The plan is: invade Liz, who is behind in techs and grab her land, with a lot of grassland cottages. I'll use an army of Samurais and Trebs to bring her down. After getting CS I'll switch to Vassalage, mass Samurais, then build some Trebs when Engineering comes. Then I'll build Galleons as soon as Astro comes and launch. If I get a GM, I'll mission him and upgrade Galleys to make it there faster. After I destroy Liz, I'll plan the big continent invasion.

Turn 131: I got Liz mapped (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0005fj4.jpg). I plan to attack Warwick first and raze it, while spies sabotages the iron tile at Hastings, cutting her from his only metal, at least for some turns. After that I'll advance and take York, which has the Horse. That will leave her completely defenseless against my samurai army. Then I take Hastings, and it's all over from her. Her garrisons consists of longbowmen, axes and possibly some maces while I get there. None of them seems to have any experience. Amsterdam is now a size 10 walled Barbarian city. LOL!

Turn 231: And so it begins (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0007ze7.jpg). So far she has gotten Gunpowder, knights, and some upgraded Longbowmen. Let's see how it goes.

Turn 250: I razed the two north cities, captured Hastings and this turn, I take London. Everything would be ok, and she would die very soon, however, Asoka DoW on me right after I DoW on Liz and his buddy Biz follows suit. Now two Frigates are about to start pillaging my stuff and I hope a rifle army doesn't land on my island. I hate being ganged up all of a sudden, now I'm not having fun.

Monarch checkpoint 3 (committed to a victory condition)

I decided to crank out some Galleons and load them with Samurai and catapults and attack Asoka. I hold the first city with many units healing, but things are not looking good. It was a bloody battle and Germany declared on me so his Knights are coming in to help the puny Indians.

My people are already very unhappy, not just from the war but from not having Emancipation. Money is running low and I am resorting to the culture slider already! It's such a long way from home to hold this city, takes like 4-5 turns for my +1 movement Galleons to reach back home.

What a mess, I'm in over my head! :) Still it's fun and I will post my eventual postmortem soon. I'm sure this will not end well.

I'm really impressed how some of you are picking the Immortal or Emperor saves and building so many wonders, what with Bismarck in this game and I think he has stone in his capital. I guess the reason you are doing it is you are not spending time building new settlers as early as I did? I try to quickly expand to 3-4 cities as it seems my research is too slow until I do that.

I think settling the capital on that plains hill might have been the better opening move - I tried it with a shadow game and did better at the start, although I still lost out on a couple wonders by turn 83!

I guess I'll be the first to post a victory here. Cheap, but whatever.

Difficulty: Prince

Space Race Victory (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0017vt4.jpg): 11528 (http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0018dh7.jpg)

Strategy:Crappy SSE? I used the Marble and forests on my capital to get early wonders, settled all the Great People there, used the rest of the cities to settle the whole initial island and used a mix of SE (2) and CE cities. I founded Confucianism with Oracle and went Pacifism.I didn't lead because of land, which Suryavarman (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0013sf2.jpg) had plenty of, like always, but I had the tech lead most of the time because, well, it's Prince. My capital (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0020xv0.jpg) at endgame.

No warring at all, therefore I didn't get to use any of Toku traits at all. Shale might have shaved off some turns on the space race, but I had coal and could have built 3Gorges. I didn't build a single samurai. What a waste.

The saves do not include checkpoints, sorry about that, but there really wasn't any thought process in this rundown.

1st save: Island is explored, I think some turns ago. Didn't explore further the rest of the island chain because I was gonna turtle and they're like, 1/2 world away from capital.

2nd save: Met everyone, won Liberalism and went Astro. Traded away. Now I'm on par tech wise and I'm moving forward.

3rd save: Space ship is totally complete. Launch day. No rivals

Anyway, I'll try the monarch save and get the job done with a better score, hopefully I'll use his traits this time around, however, the starting location is:

:mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm still struggling with the immortal save, what have we ever done to you to deserve being banned to this hell hole Rolo :lol:?
This setup is very difficult on immortal, I've settled 6 cities, i could settle some more but it won't help much as they will basically be working sea squares. Around 600 AD i started researching Civil service and i knew by then that lib wasn't feasible anymore especially since Taoism was founded already so i haven't got a religion and no pacifism.No big deal in itself when isolated since Astro is far more important. It's 1140 AD now, i'm netting 100 beakers/turn at 40% science (should have been at least 300 beakers a turn in a good game at this time) and i'm researching Calender. I don't even think i misplayed until now, the land is very mediocre so lot of meagre sea squares are being worked,even more important the capital (on the plain hill) is in a very bad spot it can't even support cottages on the plains.I haven't met anyone sofar, depends on them if there's still a chance. I think i may have to do with Samurai instead of rifles this game.

I'm still struggling with the immortal save, what have we ever done to you to deserve being banned to this hell hole Rolo :lol:?
This setup is very difficult on immortal, I've settled 6 cities, i could settle some more but it won't help much as they will basically be working sea squares. Around 600 AD i started researching Civil service and i knew by then that lib wasn't feasible anymore especially since Taoism was founded already so i haven't got a religion and no pacifism.No big deal in itself when isolated since Astro is far more important. It's 1140 AD now, i'm netting 100 beakers/turn at 40% science (should have been at least 300 beakers a turn in a good game at this time) and i'm researching Calender. I don't even think i misplayed until now, the land is very mediocre so lot of meagre sea squares are being worked,even more important the capital (on the plain hill) is in a very bad spot it can't even support cottages on the plains.I haven't met anyone sofar, depends on them if there's still a chance. I think i may have to do with Samurai instead of rifles this game.

Not only that, but his Agg/Pro won't help you AT ALL during the time you're isolated, which is the most important half of the game, and with the current lineup of rival civs, they're more than able to surpass you in every aspect until you start trading or conquering, and I mean every aspect: militarily, economically and technologically.

I'm still struggling with the immortal save, what have we ever done to you to deserve being banned to this hell hole Rolo :lol:?

QFT! This map is almost like playing 2 difficulty levels above what you chose imho, even more so due to the AI rivals that shine in isolation. :eek:
In addition to the fact that some of the AI civs are blocked in which leads to 2 powerhouses.

I'm still struggling with the immortal save, what have we ever done to you to deserve being banned to this hell hole Rolo :lol:?

C'mon.... I choosed this map because it forces people no not turtle to space and because it has some similarities with the real Japan :p

Now go to give some use to your samurai.... :devil:

C'mon.... I choosed this map because it forces people no not turtle to space and because it has some similarities with the real Japan :p

Now go to give some use to your samurai.... :devil:

I think your star ratings were somewhat off. I relied on them to try Emperor - and it feels like an Immortal game. I gave up after meeting the AIs and seeing how fast they were teching - just didn't have the land to compete with a well cottaged financial AI. I couldn't see myself reaching rifles before they had infantry.

I think I'll win the monarch game I'm playing ATM, but Emperor is kind of out of my league, even tho it's the level I play all my games at. Just so many odds stacked against poor Toku :sad:

This game is definately VERY difficult, moreso then the other lonely hearts.

You start in isolation yet - most of the AI's start next to each other and can tech/trade early on.

Furthermore, Prot/AGG does virtually nothing to help you in an isolated start like this (ecomonic traits are much better IMO) untill you goto war.

This is why I played this round on Monarch level rather then my usual Emperor/Immortal/Deity fare.


So, barbs weren't all that bad early on, I made a few chairots and put em to sleep to black out most of the island.
(175A.D.) - click on pics for full size ;)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/0000Barbs.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/0000Barbs02.jpg)

So, my economy very gradually expanded and I settled all the decent city sites I could.

I never really bothered to bee-line Optics/Civil Service as might have been the better strategy to march in with Samuari's on my closest neighbour. I'm a wonder-nut/economy-builder at heart and couldn't force myself to to even get contruction untill after getting liberalism. (not to mention every World-Wonder I could omw there). Settled 4 preists, 1 Engineer, and 1 Merchant in Capital (which will be my wallstreet city later)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot00131380maincity.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShotmaincity13802.jpg)


I didn't discover Liberalism till 1430AD, luckily no A.I. had gotten it by this point. So... I choise nationalism as my free tech since there's not much else availible. (Yeah haven't even bothered to research monotheism since I built S.P., and I still never got hunting rofl.) But I figure I can build the taj by taking nationalism, and at least I'm forcing the next advanced AI out of a free tech by making sure I win the liberalism race.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4-toko-Liberalism.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4-toko-Liberalism2.jpg)

Building the parthenon/national epic in my cap yeilded me some completely overpowered Great Artists and I now I got two oF EM!!!!
I think I'll keep em saved for now and use my 'free-win' ticket later, don't want to cheat you know, GA's make it all to easy. I also lost circumnatigational race :(
And researching Constiution here, feels weird not having representation from ~1-2000BC w/out pyramids, hopefull I can get some research going with a double Gage (taj, then great artist) and time some civic changes too once I have constiution - I've intentionally timed completion of Taj for same turn I'll have Representation available.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot00092ndGAcircum.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Shamshaw/Civ4ScreenShot00092ndGAcircum2.jpg)

Gonna leave it here for now. Update later. (I've played actually till the early 1800s, will update if I have the time to)

This map was very difficult, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I ended up giving my game up ~1600's. I was able to get astronomy to trade to William, Hannibal, and Liz (the other people never found me and I never go looking for people), and popped scientific method for a possible trade, but they had them (Liz didn't but wouldn't give me anything). But, I'm well last in GNP, Liz is ahead of me in tech, and I think I'm down and out when William techs about twice as fast as me (I saw his tech rate through espionage).

Personally, I think Emperor would have been ok with a slightly smarter start on my end.

So here's my Monarch game report: Domination. 16534. Turn 439 (2019 AD).

Checkpoint 1: Turn 79: After exploring the starting island and the chain of islands to the East, I finish the Oracle thanks to the Marble and grab CoL, getting me Confucianism. I continue ToA on the Capital (completed at turn 89). I'd love to get Hanging Gardens for the (+), but certain industrious civ has stone at the capital (GW is gone very early). I chopped Stonehenge too.

Turn 96: Tin event on a hill 1 NE of Kyoto. +2H, nice. On noble I got gems there, but w/e.

Turn 163: Optics. Took a while due to a detour to Literature for TGL and Parthenon. I start Mathematics so I can open up trade options.

Checkpoint 2: Turn 169: A shot of my capital:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg

Notice the 5 settled Prophets. They're the ones holding my civ together. Thanks to all those wonders, they're coming very often. Also notice the sleeping Great Scientist.

And this is a shot from my empire. I've settled all the good spots already and it'll remain like that. Right now I'm at 60% with surplus, but soon that'll be over. 60% is the lowest I've gotten.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

I meet Hannibal. I trade away the Optics tree for Calendar, Currency and other goodies. I meet the rest of the bunch just a couple turns later. And keep the trades to try to stay on par. Survayarman is already annoyed because of religion. Moron. The rest are so-so towards me.

Checkpoint 3 (1190 AD): Turn 179: I go around the world for the +1 and I bulb Astronomy, thanks to 2 GC I had saved. Sorry I didn't get a shot of that. Now I think I could have done that earlier if I hadn't traded for Meditation to Hannibal because they'd bulb Philosophy, but I research Philo anyway because I want Liberalism. Sadly, I've lost the race. Willem is already on Education I'm missing Paper. Anyway, my cities are gonna get ahead soon thanks to the trades and I'm gonna prepare the invasion on Liz. I'll research Nationalism in the meanwhile to get the Golden Age from Taj Majal.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg

I'm committed to a Victory condition: Domination, Conquest, or Nothing.

Turn 240: Well, I lost the Lib race to Willem, but I got the important stuff to kill Liz with the help of trades.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg

I got Nationalism to build Taj and while it was in progress I trade/research towards Democracy. At the Golden Age I switch my civics to Rep/Nat/Ema/Free/Theo. It took a 2nd age from a GPriest to get Emancipation going. Beelined Rifling, got Corporations, then I'm gonna get Steel after Steam for upgrading my Trebs at England. Most of the Rifles were drafted while I build major eco buildings such as banks and customs. I'm at 90% with a big surplus, so taking England will be piece of cake. The big continent is at war. Liz has no chance unless someone backstabs me, but I'm gonna build me a defensive fleet to protect the seafood in the meanwhile.

My capital so far: 8 Prophets, haha! And I built the Statue of Liberty too.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg

These are the drafted rifles. A medic Samurai is leading them. Haha, now R_Rolo1 can't complain.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

Turn 262 (1650 AD): The war with Liz starts.

Turn 282: And she falls down in 20 turns. She was no match against my super rifles which turned into Infantry half way thru the invasion. I lost like, 3 units. I'm still at 80% research and making profit, thanks to the trade routes, the eco buildings, cottages and of course, the prophets on my capital. My Samurai is now a medic 3 general. I popped two on this war, I settled the 1st one on capital (a mistake).

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

Anyway, I only razed 1 city cuz it was a dump. The rest looks nice:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg

I counted 13 Towns and 3 villages (one 2 turns from town). Arr! Treasure! Sheep and Deer are nice also, I won't have to rely on Biz so much. I think I already won this game, but I'm gonna try conquest, because I wanna kill them all off. I'll get State Property first, I don't wanna be rebuilding palaces this late, then I'll get Artillery and mass produce them while I draft Infantry. Maybe Industrialism and some Tanks if I got time. I'll make a mass landing in Carthage and sweep West-East the big continent.

Turn 304: I make the move on Hannibal. This time I'm packing Artillery and I switched to State already. Anyway, I had to plunge a lot of my treasure to get Asoka to declare peace on him, because I don't want him to gain any land. He has Flight, and I don't want any funky vassal business now. Biz is at war with him, but he was dragged into it by Asoka, I don't need to worry.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0034.jpg

Turn 308: Turns out all he has is rifles. Pfft, After conquering Carthage I split my troops and the the other two cities. So yes, he lasts 4 turns. He has one island city left. Time to get ready to drop Suryavarman.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg

Turn 315: I DoW on Suryavarman. Nobody likes him anyway. He's still on rifles like Hannibal. This is going to be easy. I'm also building a professional army on my homeland for when Biz time comes. I'm pulling 11xp Drill1 Combat1 CR1 rifles on my capital (every turn) and my inland city. I've built Pentagon there.

However, some turns later the dirty Man vassalizes himself to Asoka and he is dragged into war (I was at pleased with him). See? I hate the green monkey. He's gonna pay, I'm gonna wipe him from the face of the earth.

Turn 327: I stall a little thanks to Asoka. I take the 2nd city and I meet Asoka SoD (cavalry, arty, and outdated stuff). I'm very happy because he decided to come by land instead of shipping to England or Japan. About the SoD... I lure it accidentally in the open with an arty and a infantry. And he stops right where all my troops are just to kill it. Awesome. I use my Blins on it, then I take out a few strong units with my super infantry and proceed to knock it down to submission with artillery. The end result? His power spikes down hard in just 2 turns and I lose 1 or 2 units:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0037.jpg

Well, the game is won by this time, I'm about to ship my other army from homeland and this time it's all pro stuff.

Turn 336: My second army (with another Medic3 general) arrives and takes another city. I'll move my first army in a leap frog manner thru all the continent. I get Flight next turn, I'll build Airports all over the place so I can get my reinforcements on the big continent ASAP. They're mine and they're gonna pay. All of them. I'll try Conquest instead of Domination: I wanna see blood.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0038.jpg

Turn 344: Well, Suryavarman is dead (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0039.jpg) and Asoka capitulates (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0041.jpg). Next on the list, Bismarck. He is scary (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0040.jpg) now that he has his panzers and has a lot of land, but the AI sucks at war and I trust in my experienced armies. The land to conquer is large however, good thing I prepared 2 armies. I might hit a golden age and hit US since I got a lot of towns already, and money to spend. The Rep bonus is negligible at this stage. I just need 1 more Great Person. I might need more Anti-Tanks, possibly beeline Advance Flight for Gunships.

Turn 350: I make my move on Biz. Those cities he took from Man are giving him too much edge on me.

Turn 388: An even tech race led us to a stand still. However I'm able to out produce him and now I got the biggest army in the world. This is all thanks to the AI being completely stupid (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0042.jpg) and suiciding (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0044.jpg) into my stack of mass destruction (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0047.jpg). I'm winning now, taking cities every 3 turns or so.

Turn 439: Domination (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0049.jpg) victory. Score: 16534 (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg). A shot of the Scoreboard (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k232/duende29/Civ4ScreenShot0050.jpg) also. Had a lot of fun until I had to capture ALL that territory. I even had to rush Biz's capital because he launched a spaceship. And his capital was in the chain island. The bastard. Good thing I had railroads and transports on the big continent.

duende29: impressive capital and game!

my little Monarch game experiment failed - I attacked India, held 1 city for a couple turns, then the Germans swept in to save the day. I gave it up because my economy crashed. A more patient player could probably regroup and eventually win a late-game victory I would guess, but I am not that player. I should have attacked Liz as advised.
I probably would have lost this game even on Prince. Oh well... looking forward to the next version.

I have NO idea if you can do what I did on my monarch game on higher difficulties, but basically I used the Marble to build the early marble wonders. These would get me enough GP to spam Prophets mostly and sustain my economy while I settled the island. I also got a religion for the :) and Theo:

Settled on mystery hill plains.

Techs: Mining - BW - Mysticism - Farming->AH (or was is AH before Myst?) - Masonry - Polytheism - Priesthood - Writing.

Built a Boat and a Warrior first then Worker at pop.3.

Worker comes between BW and Myst. Worker would chop/mine the two hills N. Worker->Settler then to grab NW spot. Hook up the Marble, start on Temple of Artemis, then switch immediately when Oracle is available. ToA isn't much of a priority for AI it seems, you can finish after Oracle. Chop Oracle if necessary, there're lots of woods. However you won't want to chop them all, because (+) is a huge issue midgame. Keep the forests on the north so you can share them with Osaka. After that a Prophet is sure to arrive and you'll settle it for +5g. I grabbed CoL , but on my last emperor game, someone elses took it. You could use the prophet to bulb the Christianity tech if you research Mono. Then I grabbed pottery, sailing and went for Aesthetics and Literature for Parthenon and TGL and I resumed the Optics beeline.

Oh yeah, for those of you who don't know: If you get Calendar, Optics and Alphabet and you didn't get Meditation, you can use Great Scientists to bulb Astro. Takes 2 of them. *hint* *hint*.

You can use the NW spot with the two fishes to put 2 scientists and spam great ones. If you got Meditation, you'll have to research Philosophy first. Oh, and don't get CS if you want to do this, otherwise you'll bulb Paper.

Anyway, after I wrap up my monarch game I'll once again try emperor. Diplomatics ruined it for me last time.

Oh yeah, for those of you who don't know: If you get Calendar, Optics and Alphabet and you didn't get Meditation, you can use Great Scientists to bulb Astro. Takes 2 of them. *hint* *hint*.

If you got Meditation, you'll have to research Philosophy first. Oh, and don't get CS if you want to do this, otherwise you'll bulb Paper.



I never understand this stuff, somehow manipulating which techs you can lightbulb? it doesn't make sense to me because I thought to know which techs you can lightbulb you just look at the tech tree and the earliest one that you have not researched where it says can be researched by X type of great person is the one you would lightbulb.

in your example why would NOT having researched Meditation mean that you can use a great scientist on Astronomy?

by the way how and where did you draft all those units from so quickly? don't you get unhappiness penalty and they are unpromoted units? entertaining game to read about!

If you've got meditation then philosophy is bulbed instead of Astro. Not being able to research civil service is a huge drawback to the Astro bulb technic, since capital is bad in this game though it might have been best.

Use this guide as a reference:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php

Every Great Person has a list of techs that it can bulb. The list works like this: if you got the tech, or you don't have the requisites for that tech, you go from top to bottom until you find a tech it can research.

For example, for a Scientist:

Education
Printing Press
Fiber Optics
Computers
The Wheel
Philosophy
Chemistry
Fission
Fusion
Optics
Paper
Astronomy

If you don't have Paper, you don't get Education, Printing Press, etc. Philosophy however, requires Meditation and (CoL or Drama), and on the list it's before Astronomy, therefore if you don't have Meditation for Philo, got Optics and you still don't have Civil Service or Theology for paper, your Great Scientist will bulb Astro. Oh, and Alphabet is in there far below.

Dirk: Nah, not really if you got the scientists already. Besides, the capital won't improve a lot (at least if you settled on the hill) by chain irrigation. Actually getting Astro early is the best thing for your cities here because of resource trading for :) and (+).

^^S man done it in the current ALC, where he found himself isolated... and the list is correct. As we don't have a stellar land this may be the best option to get acess to better land ( I was already thinking on do that before you posted... and IIRC I already done that in one LHC ( the Liz one, where the land was bad as well )... I think that is the best option in situations where there is no interest on developing our land )

By the way, my monarch game on page 2 is done, domination victory. I think I might try Emperor again, but I'm kind of bored of this map already...

PS: Yes, the list is updated. I didn't see Alphabet down there.

Till 1780:
1575 AD Globe theater is ready and Economics researched so i make the switch to Nationhood/Free market. I have to research Replaceables/Rifling which costs around 20 turns from this point so i'll draft 20 muskets in the mean time. Heroic epic is finished 3 turns later, i'll build mostly trebs in this city(don't want to waste money on spy points while research is as bad as it is). 1645 AD I land an early beachhead stack consisting of various units so it can't be attacked too easily. The trebs begin bombing Nottingham while i send the galls back for reinforcement. This works like a charm, i lose one Samurai to a crossbow because i forgot to put a Musket in the stack and a pike to a knight (bad luck).

The landwar was essentially boring, bombing ,softening with 1 or 2 trebs then charging in with Samurai and Muskets. Sea war was quite a different story however though, Liz has Chemistry and some of my Galleons are chased all over the ocean by 2 frigates who luckily operate in a stack.

1665 AD Rifling is ready, when my Rifles reach England the war doesn't last long, 1775 AD Tokugawa rules the british waves and England is no more. I have no idea if i can win the game from here, diplomatically everyone is pleased with me except the Khmer (cautious).Of course i'm way behind everyone but i hope to overtake Bischmark and bribe him against Asoka. This is no doubt the most exciting lonely start until now. What a difference with the Darius game i had tanks around 1700 AD in that game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101761/Lonely_Tokugawa_AD-1645.CivBeyondSwordSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101761/Lonely_Tokugawa_AD-1780.CivBeyondSwordSave

No checkpoint - abandonned after few unsuccessful trials


All in all, it's a very very hard setting - map is hard, opponents tech like crazy.

I think the only way to win is to beeline astro/rifles and rule the world, but I have a little bit too few time to manage an oversea warlike game. I love these LHC alone culture/diplo/space wins, without warring (or with little).

Will be back for the next settlement of my preferred series :scan:

Don't worry pawelo.... I'll do a much lighter thing for Xmas.... I'm thinking on a fin deathmatch , with all civs starting isolated and playable (will post only WB scenario... the rest is up to you ;) )

Till defeat in 1956:
At least i got my spaceship launched the turn Bischmark lands on Alpha (and what a spaceship mine is with only one casing and one engine). The same turn Bischmark and his vassals Hannibal and Sury declare on me. I've 0.1 times the power of Bischmark so i guess the game's really over now:lol:. Good luck to Toku if his crappy ship finds a habitable planet, he'll be wiped of his two islands in the next 10 years of untold history.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101761/Lonely_Tokugawa_AD-1956.CivBeyondSwordSave

Has anybody beaten Emperor+?

I'm sure i'd have beaten emperor if i'd played there, i missed out by +/- 15 turns on immortal.