I'm not experienced in OCC at all, so bear with me.

The question is this: how do you launch the ship in an OCC before someone wins by culture, in BTS?

I'm struggling to do it, on PRINCE?!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I did all the usual stirring up wars, diplomacy, nuking legendary cities and spy crap. Yes, I tried razing legendary cities. But when half the AI's on the other continent are trying to win by culture...

The question is this: how do you launch the ship in an OCC [...] ?


You don't.*

At least, in theory. You need both strong commerce and production in order to achieve a comfortable space victory. OCC provides you neither, compared relatively to other AI players. OCC is generally, though of course not always, the domain of diplomacy victories. OCC is One City Challenge, implying that normal methods to victory simply don't work or are completely unfeasible, so why you're expecting to win an OCC space victory handedly on Prince is beyond me.


*The OCC Space Victory is actually a project of mine, which is odd since I'm trying to discourage you from it. Again, the biggest problem in my mind is the ability to attain enough production to churn out space parts in record time. Denying victory to other AI players is just a matter of extensive diplomacy. I'm able to get an OCC Space win on Monarch using a priest/prophet gimmick; thinking about writing up a guide for it later on.

^^I do not agree , mostly because I've been in a OCC SG in Immortal that we almost won by Space ( we add the bad luck of not having coal or oil for railroading, and the lack of prod combined with a overstreched Rome ( how unusual... ) made us lose for maybe 20 turns... I think that we could had won it with a bit more of luck ) and because the same SG team won by space in Warlords Emperor ( that has roughly the same dificulty level )

Links for reference:
Fox-07 ( warlords Emperor win ) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=241648)
Fox-08 ( BtS Immortal loss ) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=247209)

Fair enough, and thanks for the links. Space Race is certainly doable on OCC, and I'm having tremendous fun attempting it at higher levels.

My response was because the OP began his thread as so:

I'm not experienced in OCC at all, so bear with me.

So I'm recommending that he ignores the space race for now.

If you want to make it easier you can allow permanent alliances.

Production I have no problems with - you get hammers in random places like mines, settled super specialists, levees, tons of modifiers, ironworks... I can finish the engine in 5 turns on normal speed even in a bad city.

In vanilla and warlords, I could easily win OCC space race on immortal too, mostly with pulling space techs with the internet and getting fusion first, while sabotaging the engine production of enemy AI's so they'll always be missing the engine. You can't sabotage the cultural slider, nor could you ever hope to win by culture yourself as you only have one city.

Space race is essentially a tech race, not a production race. And it's only a "race" when more than one person is going for it. Unfortunately...

- AI's roleplay rather than trying to win. The "natural" logic of the game means if an AI is about to win by culture, they should throw everything at them to try to raze a legendary city, like a human would. However, that does not happen. They just let an AI win.
- It used to be that AI's always go for space race by default. In a normal setting, you can attack whoever tries to win by diplomatic or cultural victory, but OCC's are (almost) by definition builder victories.

I'm not being a crybaby by saying that OCC's are unwinnable in BTS. They are, but it's just that all my OCC wins on BTS are diplomatic, which takes away a lot of variety from this variant. No, I probably won't try permenant alliances as that's essentially cheating. I might try aggressive AI, I'm not sure. Theoretically, with a holy shrine and wall street, I should be able to maintain a 150 unit army and still have the slider at 80% - not that the slider really matters in OCC's anyway...

I won space race on Monarch, epic speed using Peter on an Archipelago map in 2006. This is the only save from that game that I could find. I built Globe, National Park, Ironworks, Oxford and the Moai Statues. Opponents were randomly selected. I did start over very early on when I missed getting the fish in the BFC.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/playshogi/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/playshogi/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

Right, I use the same national wonders, only occasionally substituting moai statues with national park if I'm not coastal and I simply don't have resources to trade for health resources. I also incorporated Sid's Sushi, but I also incorporated mining Inc. for extra hammers after I got my 4th GE. And I had a much better city than you too. Representation, bureaucracy, caste system, free market, free religion. Environmentalism if no national park.

Does epic speed help in OCC space race? I think my production was slowed because I couldn't handle the hammer overflow, maybe. I think my strategy is correct, it's my execution I guess.

But see... your screenshot says 1971. The problem I'm having is that AI's often win by culture way before that date. I'm talking late 18xx on Prince.

In this game, Bismark has 1 legendary city, but the other 2 cities are not close. I think only certain AI are good for cultural winning, like Gandhi, Willem and Khmer, so maybe if you avoid those it would help. OTOH, if you avoid the peaceful AI you get attacked. That's why I like archipelago, because if I'm attacked, I can defend it. Epic speed might make a difference, too, because cities need 75000 pts, and I'm not sure the AI is really good at getting Great Artists.

I'm quite stunned reading this. Can someone explain to me the game mechanics that make it possible to win OCC Space? :confused: After all for most of us it is a challenge to win the space race with a large empire and lots of cities researching and building the ship. Doing it with one city seems outright impossible to me (on a difficulty higher than, say, noble). I assume someone winning OCC space on Monarch or Emperor can win any regular Deity game in his sleep? :crazyeye:

Ok, I know you save a lot of maintenance when having only one city, and you can build more national wonders than normal. But that can never make up for the production and science of 15+ good cities, surely?

How much hammers do you produce in such a city? I have had cities in regular games yielding ~250 hammers per turn. I can't imagine it can go much higher.

And science... late techs cost something around 20,000 beakers. How many beakers can one city possibly generate? After all you have only the usual 20 workable tiles as in any normal game.

:confused: :confused:

Settled specialists + representation is the key for teching, also specialists + space elevator + aluminum + labs help with production (teching is the hard part). I've only won OCC/SR on noble, but if i wouldn't had gone for Overwhelm doctrine quest in my latest prince OCC i probably would've beaten Willem before his 2008AD~ cultural victory (i just wanted to see reward for quest and didn't really care about losing the game).

Settled specialists + representation is the key for teching, also specialists + space elevator + aluminum help with production

Well, those are just basic strategies I've often used in normal games. Nothing special to an OCC game.

no, it's really weird IronCrown. i can win OCC games on a higher level than i can normal games, a lot of people are like me that way. but some people do find them harder and can only win on lower levels than normal. you have only one city but it's a fantastically uber city. it's in a way harder in BtS since you can't have every national wonder, but then again national park makes health problems completely go away if it's one you pick, and you can defy UN resolutions now which is amazing; having bureaucracy taken away was really really sad in previous versions.

i really like OCC so i have experience with it and i play to my strengths. like, often if i don't want war, i pick gandhi and i maximize great people and use spiritual to minimize enemies and do my tech thing while not making waves. and i completely admit that if i'm trying to win OCC conquest, i re-start if i don't get the great wall, since i do not want the hassle of barbarians pillaging my stuff when the map starts to get totally covered in fog of war :lol:. those darn cities pop up everystinkingwhere!

you get 20 workable tiles but you get a ton of settled specialists, and with NPark you can run a bunch of free specialists too, if the land is right and you save your forests. and now you can defy the UN and not have to go to UniSuff, so those specialists can keep earning Rep beakers if you don't want to buy stuff in US.

OCC is also a heck of a lot quicker than a normal game, so the process of learning from your mistakes and improving is a lot faster *giggle*.

Well, those are just basic strategies I've often used in normal games. Nothing special to an OCC game.

And those basic strategies work on OCC too :). And i forgot BC as Kmad says.. it's quite essential.

Oh, I just looked at the screenshots above. 266 hammers and ~1100 beakers/turn... well, that's only slightly more hammers than my best hammer city usually yields in a regular game... and that's only one city of 15-30.

I don't remember my overall science output, but I think it's about 2000 beakers in late game. How can you tech fast enough with "only" 1100 beakers/turn?

And how do you build enough military while doing all the other stuff?

Well, I might add that on Monarch+ I always win way before 1971 (if I win at all). In most games, an AI would win around this time or even earlier unless I win first.

@KMad: Interesting, but still a mystery to me ;) I played one OCC so far and went for diplo victory - I thought that was the only one possible with that setting. I failed, though it was quite close. And I chose a small map with many AIs, so every AI had little space to expand. I can't imagine competing on a large map with AIs that have twenty times the land/population you have...

Conquest in an OCC? :crazyeye:

Wonder hogging is also quite effective with OCC, as they contribute to GP points and denying wonders from AI helps to slow them down.

Conquest in an OCC? :crazyeye:
Currently there are 16 people trying to do that in a Prince game.... Check it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252517)
I think that is doable....