OK, this is just a small poll. i don't know if this will have any effect, but i think it's sad their names were changed.

Kael Coalbane, formerly Svartalfar hero, then council of Esus hero had his name changed to Gibbon Malus (that would be an evil monkey in several languages) because Kael thought having references to a Kael in game reports would be confusing. Well, i don't really think it would be that confusing, and would like to have the old name back. "Evil Monkey" just seem ... silly

Morgoth, the Sidar leader had his name changed to "Sandalphon" or something like this, because Morgoth was an evil entity in Tolkiens' world. Well, i don't care Tolkiens world when playing FFH, neither do i care FFH when i read "The Lord if the Rings". However, i do care when a leader i'm used to see near my borders for two years suddenly have his name changed. I would like to have the old name back.

So, what are you thinking of this.

I thought he was changin Kael coalbane tosomething else because overwise in shadow there would be two hero's called Kael. That was my take on it anyway.

'Kael Coalbane' has better euphony because of those [k] and [l] sounds. Also, the '-bane' part suggests ruin, downfall and evilness better than just plain 'Malus', IMO.

Maybe they could just change 'Gibbon' to something more ominous and thus remove the monkey reference.

Or they could just post a guide for people to change the names on their own :)

Isn't it Gibbon Goetia or something anyhow?

I voted for Keep them both. But I can get used to a name change if thats what the team wants. I don't associate Morgoth with LOR anymore. In fact it would be the opposite if I ever watched or read the trilogy again. Morgoth is set in my mind as being a Sidar leader. As to Kael Coalbane.. I like the name very much. The name Coalbane just sounds cool to me. Gibbon sounds kinda weak, Coalbane sounds powerful. Perhaps change the first name or just call him Coalbane. hehe after watching an old episode of the the Dukes of Hazard I had the name Kael T. Coalbane stuck in my head for a time (as in Roscoe P. Coaltrain).

Yeah, its currently Gibbon Goetia. Typhoid Mary has also been renamed Mary Morbus.

I preferred the old names, but what really bothers me it that as it is written now using Gibbon Goetia's Impersonate leader ability makes you lose Kael. Since there is no Kael hero now, I must assume that means the creator of this mod. I'm afraid that if I use this spell even once that .30 will be the last version of FfH. :( :p ;)


I never really liked "the Black Enemy" being the name of the Sidar leader, but I'm not a huge fan of Sandalphon for him either. I'd rather them come up with a third choice, but wouldn't be particularly upset with using either name instead of thinking up a new one.

Changing a unit or leader's name isn't hard in xml (especially if you don't change the unit's "real name," how the computer recognizes it, but only what it displays to human users. Change <Description>TXT_KEY_LEADER_SANDALPHON</Description> tag to <Description>Morgoth</Description> in the CIV4LeaderHeads.xml file in the civilizations fler of the xml folder of the assets folder of the mod folder and change the <Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_GIBBON</Description> tag to <Description>Kael Colbane</Description> in the CIV4UnitInfos.xml file of the units folder of the xml folderder...

(if you would rather do it the "right way," then instead of directly putting the text you want displayed in the the <Description></Description> tag you would instead change the TXT_KEY_UNIT_KAEL or TXT_KEY_LEADER_SANDALPHON entry in the CIV4GameText_FFH2.xml file in the text folder of the xml folder to have the text you want; since this is mostly used to make sure the game supports multiple languages, I don't see much point in doing it this way if you are only changing it for yourself.)

You would also probably want to change other references to the leader/unit to correspond with their changed names. You'll probably have to run search on the text file in order to replace them all (I'd recommend against using replace, since that would probably change the tags themselves too. If you do that, you'll need to change every place that referred to them)

If Bob's reason for the name change is correct (i.e. confusion):

Kael, stop being so damn modest and put yourself in your game already! A few other members of the team have this honour, so theres no reason why you shouldn't.

Ferchrissake...

Of course, if there's some other sensible reason for this (such as Kael still being the Svartalfar hero), then clarification would be appreciated. :)

Regardless, 'Gibbon' as the name for the Esus hero conjures (for me) images of a corrupt, corpulent bureaucrat, not the master of disguise his mechanic suggests. I'd go with something more sinister and mysterious and not actually a name, like 'the Gray Fox' from Oblivion.

Personally I think of a beached sea mammal whenever I see Morgoth's new name.

I didn't like Morgoth as a neutral character myself.

I voted to keep Kael in...but rename Sandals to something a little bit more 'shadowy'.

I was overjoyed to see that Morgoth would be renamed Sandalphon. This ties in marvelously with the angelic theme already present in the naming scheme of the mod. Sandalphon is probably the best choice for the Sidar's leader, as Sandalphon is the most "earthy" of the angels. As relates to Qabbalic symbolism, Sandalphon is associated with Malkuth, the bottommost of the spheres (i.e. the most "earthly").
Keeping the name Kael Coalbane would be fine, I think. I don't understand how it would possibly cause any more confusion than all the other heroes who are named after developers (or is that vice-versa?). Either way, anyone should be able to differentiate between forum posts and in-game references.
The poll didn't really have an option that lined up with my views, so I chose what I thought was the best one.
Sandalphon should stay. Kael should stay, too, but I care less about this one. Sandalphon is important to keep.

Maybe he could be Coalbane Kael.

I thought Kael would be the Svartalfar hero, and Gibbon the Council hero. Now I'm very confused.

I don't care about the Gibbon = ape thing, but I just don't like the name itself. Plus I think it's just right to have a Kael in game, too. ;)

Although I must say Kael and the team should name them whatever way they want.

Gibbon sounds silly. I would accept a name change, but we can really do better than Gibbon.

I don't see why we expect 'Kael Coalbane' to be a problem; there are already heroes named after mod-writers, and that doesn't seem to have confused anyone.

I think all names, new and old, are fine. I also think people tend to get caught up in such things too much.

A friend of mine absolutely, positively hated it when Sandalphon was known as Morgoth. And as I assume noone is absolutely hating the name Sandalphon, I think it's better off changed:)

Maybe gibbon is more in reference to the word 'gibbous' which is used to refer to the stage of the moon between full and half-full. (yes there is a word for that, isn't English grand?)

I personally would prefer the evil ape to be renamed back to Kael Coalbane... Got used to it too much after playing FFH for a year.

Morgoth/Sandalphon, i would probably prefer the old name of Morgoth, since i dont really associate FFH with any real life fantasy genre, including Lotr...
But if the team really wants, i dont care as much as i do about Kael

If Bob's reason for the name change is correct (i.e. confusion):

Kael, stop being so damn modest and put yourself in your game already! A few other members of the team have this honour, so theres no reason why you shouldn't.

Ferchrissake...

Of course, if there's some other sensible reason for this (such as Kael still being the Svartalfar hero), then clarification would be appreciated. :)

Kael posted this in the Shadow Shedule thread when Magister Cultuum first noticed the name change :

Nothing to do with not being worthy of the name (whatever that means), I just thought it could get confusing in playtesting and stuff to talk about multiple Kael's so I switched his name to something less confusing.

I really liked the name Kael Coalbane. Gibbon Malus, or now Gibbon Goetia... I think if i ever have troubles with this hero, i will try to tell out loud "RIDICULUS" while imagining a monkey (or an ape for all that matters) and see if this stops him :crazyeye:

(or an ape for all that matters)
Never visit Ankh-Morpork.

Never visit Ankh-Morpork.

redicilously off-topic but :lol: :rotfl: :lol:

I don't really like the Sandalpon name, although I understand the etiology...everytime I look at it I see "Sandal-phone"

Double post...

I hated the name Morgoth for a long time; eventually I got used to it but it'll give new players the wrong impression and there's just no excuse for it. I'm not a big fan of Sandalphon because my Judeo-Christian mythology isn't good enough to not think of sandals and phones when I hear about it, but it's better than the alternative.

As for Gibbon Goetia, now I'm going to be thinking of the Key of Solomon every time I hear it. I think you should just literally name the hero "Evil Monkey". And make the graphic a monkey with flames coming out of it, or something.

I've got a problem with gibbon goetia..

It always come with the image 'ape-goat'
kind of a strange chimera....

as for sandalphon ... it doesn't ring anything, and seems bizzare.. maybe another name ??? not morgoth maybe but something else... (Bun-bun???)

whatever the names, maybe they are good, maybe not.. just have to play with them :)

maybe it's better to think of it as sandal porn? ;)

Or a chimera out of a sandal and a phone? Like the Mickey Mouse phones? :D

Morgoth is a very classical evil name and I think it fits the Sidar leader perfectly. Sandalphon? That doesn't even sound pleasing to the ear, it would totally ruin the Sidar for me o.o

And a hero named Monkey?

I think sticking to the original names is more appropriate, names are powerful things and while I wouldn't mind if Kael had his name changed the new proposed name is ugly at best. Changing Morgoth however irks me.

Sand-Alfonso:D

San Dalphon
S. And Al Fon

And a hero named Monkey?
That show was ace. Mental, but ace. He was definitely a hero called Monkey :P

Monkey D. Luffy !!!Morgoth is a very classical evil name and I think it fits the Sidar leader perfectly.ok I yield...this quote means that morgoth really has to change names... sidar aren't evil at all. so if the name make people think of him as evil, it has to change..
but not to sandale-phone ... plizzzz

That show was ace. Mental, but ace. He was definitely a hero called Monkey :P

If you guys are talking about what I'm thinking about, then there should definitely be heroes named Monkey, Sandy, Pigsy and Tripitaka. That would be the most awesome thing in the world. Ever.

Well, I guess the Svartalfar thread confirms that there is currently no Kael hero in the mod.

But there is an "Alazkan the Assassin". This sounds a lot more Malakim than Svartalfar to my ears, which is interesting as as far as we know the Malakim don't have a hero since Chalid turned Empyrean...

If I had my way, I'd make Kael the Council hero, Alazkan the Malakim hero, and (Sezereth/Talchas) the (Svartalfar/Sidar) heroes. At least these sound plausible, even if they are named after the team.

(with some warping the other members of the team have plausible fantasy names too...except for White Rabbit. You're on your own.)

white rabbit is bun-bun ... well, bun-bun is a spotted rabbit, white and gray... I vote for a uber barb hero with chaos affinity named alternatively BunBun or White Rabbit... :D... need a new model.. a rabbit with a knife

Actually, "The White Rabbit" / "X the White Rabbit" would work as some sort of roguish scout character. Or maybe just a unique 'White Rabbit' animal, which runs away like Loki but gives you a large reward if you can surround and capture it.

Also:
Nikis-Knight --> Nikis, Knight of (the) "X" (Empyreans 2nd hero?)
C.Roland --> Croland / Roland the "X"
Hexagonian --> The Hexagonian / "X" the Hexagonian? almost works...

'Ploeperengel' is giving me trouble though.

Anyway, there's always room for more (modestly powered) wandering barbarian 'heroes', perhaps with a unique piece of equipment. If there was a small chance of each one spawning per game (without the attention that Orthus gets) it'd be fun and add more flavour to the game. Or perhaps rare events that allow them to join your civ as mercenaries.

All they'd need is a slight reskin of existing models. It's always seemed unbalanced to me how some members of the team got into the game and others didn't. Though maybe this was out of choice, I don't know....

een ploeperengel? engel is a dutch word, means angel ;)
don't know what ploeper means though

I prefer Kael Coalbane because I think of Kurt Cobain of Nirvana. Cool. Sandalphon? It's OK. Other than being a beached sea mammal like Nikis-Knight said, is there a good story behind it?

Someone, be it Sandalphon, Gibbon, or Alzakan, should be renamed Tibbar Etihw.

Nice anagram.

Sandalphon from Wikipedia:

Sandalphon the Angel

Origin

Some of the earliest sources on Sandalphon refer to him as the prophet Elijah transfigured and elevated to angelic status.[2] Other sources (mainly from the midrashic period) describe him as the "twin brother" of Metatron, whose human origin as Enoch was similar to the human origin of Sandalphon.[3] Whatever his origin, Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah. Other sources, possibly even more ancient than others, says that Sandalphon is female, and that she is the female counterpart of Metatron.


Descriptions and functions

Physical descriptions of Sandalphon vary depending on the source. He is uniformly depicted as extremely tall—he exceeds Hadraniel (another angel) in height by a 500-year foot journey.[4] During Moses' visit to the Third Heaven, he is said to have glimpsed Sandalphon and called him the "tall angel" (though this legend dates to much later than the time of the Torah). The Babylonian Talmud Hagigah 13b says Sandalphon's head reaches Heaven, which is also said of Israfel and of the Greek giant Typhon, with whom Sandalphon seems to have similar mythological roots. He is also described as being a member of the Sarim (angelic princes), and a Hazzan (master of heavenly song).

In The Greater Key of Solomon, Sandalphon is designated "the left-hand feminine cherub of the Ark". In the liturgy for the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, he is credited with gathering the prayers of the faithful, making a garland of such prayers, and then "adjuring them to ascend as an orb to the supreme King of Kings". In Enoch chapter 3, he is the ruler of the Sixth Heaven (makom) but in the Zohar he is "chief of the Seventh Heaven". According to Islamic lore, he dwells in the Fourth Heaven.[5] As Michael does, he carries on a ceaseless battle with Samael (perhaps Satan), angel of evil.

The ancient sages also referred to him by the name Ophan (Hebrew for "wheel"), a reference to the "wheel within the wheel" from Ezekiel's vision of the merkabah (heavenly chariot) in Ezekiel chapter 1.[6] Sandalphon is also said to be instrumental in bringing about the differentiation of sex in the embryo.[5]

In Kabbalah, Sandalphon is the angel who represents the sephirah of Malkhut[7] and overlaps (or is confused with) the angel Metatron. He is said to appear before the feminine presence of the Shekhinah[2] and supposedly receives the prayers of humans and sends them to God.

Here is my favorite writing about Sandalphon:


Have you read in the Talmud of old,
In the Legends the Rabbins have told
Of the limitless realms of the air, --
Have you read it, -- the marvellous story
Of Sandalphon, the Angel of Glory,
Sandalphon, the Angel of Prayer?

How, erect, at the outermost gates
Of the City Celestial he waits,
With his feet on the ladder of light,
That, crowded with angels unnumbered,
By Jacob was seen, as he slumbered
Alone in the desert at night?

The Angels of Wind and of Fire
Chant only one hymn, and expire
With the song's irresistible stress;
Expire in their rapture and wonder,
As harp-strings are broken asunder
By music they throb to express.

But serene in the rapturous throng,
Unmoved by the rush of the song,
With eyes unimpassioned and slow,
Among the dead angels, the deathless
Sandalphon stands listening breathless
To sounds that ascend from below; --

From the spirits on earth that adore,
From the souls that entreat and implore
In the fervour and passion of prayer;
From the hearts that are broken with losses,
And weary with dragging the crosses
Too heavy for mortals to bear.

And he gathers the prayers as he stands,
And they change into flowers in his hands,
Into garlands of purple and red;
And beneath the great arch of the portal,
Through the streets of the City Immortal
Is wafted the fragrance they shed.

It is but a legend, I know, --
A fable, a phantom, a show,
Of the ancient Rabbinical lore,
Yet the old mediæval tradition,
The beautiful, strange superstition,
But haunts me and holds me the more.

When I look from my window at night,
And the welkin above is all white,
All throbbing and panting with stars,
Among them majestic is standing
Sandalphon the angel, expanding
His pinions in nebulous bars.

And the legend, I feel, is a part
Of the hunger and thirst of the heart,
The frenzy and fire of the brain,
That grasps at the fruitage forbidden,
The golden pomegranates of Eden,
To quiet its fever and pain.

- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

That writing makes me dislike the name even more. I hope someone will help me find out what I need to do to change his name back to Morgoth. I really know nothing of the Civ IV files. @_@

That writing makes me dislike the name even more. I hope someone will help me find out what I need to do to change his name back to Morgoth. I really know nothing of the Civ IV files. @_@

I think it should change it back if you open the game text, found in the mod folder then assets then xml then text.

use ctrl+f to find evertime sandalphon is listed and change all the ones that are not in block capitals.

I think that should work.......

I planned to try and change the names myself if lots of people disliked the new names and they made it in Shadow. I don't have lots of experience editing the game files, but i have some tools to edit xml files and some basic idea were to look for them. I'll have a look at this when Shadow is released.

I planned to try and change the names myself if lots of people disliked the new names and they made it in Shadow. I don't have lots of experience editing the game files, but i have some tools to edit xml files and some basic idea were to look for them. I'll have a look at this when Shadow is released.

The only file you'll need is the xml file, that is where the text for everything in the game is displayed for each of the languages, if you just change all of the references to the name you dislike in for the language you are using then that should be suffecient to change the name.

Do not like apes in Fantasy, even dark. Sandalphon in phonetical tradition of my language sounds disgusting.

The only file you'll need is the xml file, that is where the text for everything in the game is displayed for each of the languages, if you just change all of the references to the name you dislike in for the language you are using then that should be suffecient to change the name.
Thanks for the hints, you are refering to Civ4GameTextFFH.xml i guess, cause there are lots of xml files.
Was the Pedia Entries file removed and merged with GameText? Otherwise it would still have the other name in the pedia Texts.

Civ4GameTextFFH.xml

Yeah thats the file,

And yeah the pedia entries are in there aswell

You should keep a backup file for it aswell just incase...

Love the lyrical style of the excerpt. I do wish that Perpentarch would do an AABCCB style or something more lymeric like that :)

I prefer Kael Coalbane because I think of Kurt Cobain of Nirvana. Cool. Sandalphon? It's OK. Other than being a beached sea mammal like Nikis-Knight said, is there a good story behind it?
His special ability involves removing himself from play, too - very appropriate... :)
Sandalphon? He's an archangel, as pointed out above.

Maybe he could be Coalbane Kael.

How about Coal Kaelbane :crazyeye: This World unit would then get a new special ability: If your leader is named Kael, you loose :)

Seriously, I think the real way to tell if this is important to people is to create a quick modmod with these changes, and see how many people download it.

He'll have to require coal before you can build him so you would have to add another resource

I created a micro mod to get back the old names.
It's in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=255035)