4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

In Civ 3, there's various barbarian settings. But in Civ 4, you can't
have sedentary barbs. So just leave your settings at "no barbs".
Solves the problem, doesn't it?:)

Totally agree with the OP. I've always considered the barbarian invasion event to be unbalanced and lame. To add further insult, you often have to deal with normal barbarians at the same time. Even if you could somehow contend with the invasion, the damage would be so crippling to your development it would be very difficult to stage a recovery.

I'm not really a great fan of random events anyway. Although my luck probably balances out over a series of games, it seldom happens on a game to game basis.

4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

What level are you playing? I've had this happen on Noble (I'm just not good enough yet to advance to a higher level), but I don't recall a barb rush at 3000 BC.

I play on Monarch level. I don't like playing with no barbs because it makes it too easy. As it is I think the barb activity level in BtS is too low compared to Warlords.

I play on Monarch level. I don't like playing with no barbs because it makes it too easy. As it is I think the barb activity level in BtS is too low compared to Warlords.

I agree that the barb activity level tends to be less in BtS than in Warlords. Barb rushes can be a good thing if you've had time to establish a military for XP's, right? But, not under the situation you described in your original post. Also, I don't like the idea of eliminating barbs. Takes away from the game, IMO.

Agree with Futurehermit. If I had two things I would like to be tweaked, it would be this event and the all-forest starts. All of these make me start the game again, which is not my definition of fun.

one time I had the barbarian uprising even, i had an (small) island all for myself, all my cities protected by warriors (did not need more, no opponent on my island), and only 1, yes, ONE tile not covered by my cultural influence... Of course barbarians came, just on my capital doorstep :cry:

Those super early "Uprising" events need to go away.

Ï've seen this event several times and it always means the end of someone.
Personal, I like this event, but 2000 BC or later.
I'm also used to early barb axemen, so the barbs are a huge disappointment in BTS.

Yes, 2000BC or later 4 barb archers is fair game, especially on the higher levels. But 3000BC???

In addition to more barb axes, etc. I wish there were more barb ships (galleys, triremes, etc.).

I wish we saw more barbarian invasions in the latter games, especially by sea.

I've noticed that the first barbarians to show up tend to be archers, and the warriors don't show up until later. Anyone else notice this? It's really hard trying to fight off archers when all you've got is warriors.

In Civ 3, there's various barbarian settings. But in Civ 4, you can't
have sedentary barbs. So just leave your settings at "no barbs".
Solves the problem, doesn't it?:)

No it doesn't. He's refering to the random event that suddenly plops a half dozen Archers on your border when all you've managed to build for your capital's defense is a single Warrior. That happened to me a short while ago and when I saw that stack, I just quit the game and started a new one. There's wasn't much point in continuing against those odds.

I can't believe you people! Without the barb event, where would the high anxiety be that demanded you protect your citizens?

Not only the archers uprising in 3000 BC should be fixed, but also the horse-archers random event should be somewhat changed. I got this: 4 or more horse archers appeared right outside my capital while all my axemen were marching toward someone. I whipped a spear but lost my capital, and the game. I think it's even worse than the archer thing: you play more turns, hook up copper, build up axe, and when you think your capital is secured due to fogbusting and finally pull off all the mighty axe to do an early rush, barb horse archers turn up to ruin your day.
It is ridiculus that the horse archers could appear right beside your border, where the fog of war does not exist. With their 2 movement, I doubt one could whip 2 spears(3 pops even if you can!) to counter them before they come to your city..

I don't think an uprise should occur right outside the cultural border. I had one incidence it took place right at the lone tile sandwiched between my 3 cities, where the cultural border of these 3 cities didn't cover. So these barb spears suddenly popped out like a bunch of ghosts out of their tombs. This event also starts happening too early. I don't think anybody playing SP will have 2-3 archers or axes parking in their capital in 3000BC.

Also, why 4 barbarians? In Civ 1 unit actually represents one troop, so 4 barbarians actually represent 4 groups of barbarians simultaneously appear right out of your border. This is just insane.

This is one of the few things I'll ever touch the World builder.

In my games, the early uprisings never did much harm to anyone. For some reason the barbs often scatter and wander around instead of attacking my civ or the AI. In fact it's been a long time since I lost a city to barbs, even without reloading ;)

In a MP game I had a massive uprising at my border very early. I thought I was screwed, but the barbs just marched straight through my entire land to my neighbor which I thought was very nice of them :lol:

But they didn't attack him either but marched further, in a straight line, and disappeared somewhere. I wonder what they had in mind... maybe searching for the Holy Grail? :D

Not only the archers uprising in 3000 BC should be fixed, but also the horse-archers random event should be somewhat changed. I got this: 4 or more horse archers appeared right outside my capital while all my axemen were marching toward someone. I whipped a spear but lost my capital, and the game. I think it's even worse than the archer thing: you play more turns, hook up copper, build up axe, and when you think your capital is secured due to fogbusting and finally pull off all the mighty axe to do an early rush, barb horse archers turn up to ruin your day.
It is ridiculus that the horse archers could appear right beside your border, where the fog of war does not exist. With their 2 movement, I doubt one could whip 2 spears(3 pops even if you can!) to counter them before they come to your city..

I think your case is different than the ones described above. By performing an early axemen rush, you deliberatly choose to weaken your core empire. It's a risk you take, and consequently you loose some time.

As for the fogbusting, the horse archers could have assembled secretly. You could think of them as some kind of conspiration against you, which evaded the watchful eyes of your fogbusting units. Happened many times in real life I guess.

Rince

No it doesn't. He's refering to the random event that suddenly plops a half dozen Archers on your border when all you've managed to build for your capital's defense is a single Warrior. That happened to me a short while ago and when I saw that stack, I just quit the game and started a new one. There's wasn't much point in continuing against those odds.

Are you sure about that? Ever since I started playing custom games on BTS with no barbs
I've never had such an event. I think "no barbs" means what it says. So no uprisings, right?:)

Theres the Archers, theres Swordsmen and horsearchers, none of which should pose a challenge if you
.) build the great wall
.) have defense

When playing on Emperor or higher, you quickly learn to have 3+ units in your bordercities at every second of the game :)

I would really like to see you having 3+ units in your capital at turn 20. Quite a feat.

Form turn 100 on i have. Must have. Else im dead. :)

If the archers turn up on turn 20 (is this a fact?) then the mechanics are screwed up, since theres no way you can withstand that. Which leads me to believe that they might turn up a bit later.

I only had them once, and i remember that i could have had more than the single warrior that faced them.


EDIT:
The Vedic Aryans
Prereq: One player knows POLYTHEISM AND one player knows ARCHERY

AI starts with archery, poly is tier 2. So with someone starting out with Meditation, it has a chance of occurring after about 25 turns or so.
bad luck if this one finds Poly in a hut on turn 1, then you are pretty much screwed.

^^^ Yes it does happen and no you can't have enough defenses to handle it so yes the mechanics are screwed up. Hence this thread.

bad luck if this one finds Poly in a hut on turn 1, then you are pretty much screwed.

Except that you cannot get religion founding techs from hut, afaik.

Its *possible* to happen without proper preparation time, it doesnt necessarily so.

The chances for it to happen in turn 20 are still low.
the event doesnt trigger as soon as the preqs are met, it just has the chance to from that point on.

If this hits you with 1 warrior, then its a case of very bad luck.
If this hits you 2 times with one warrior, its extremly bad luck.

In all my games, i had the Archers apepar 2 times, once the hit me, once Capac (pity the fool).
I had built one warrior at that time, and if i hadnt gone for stonehenge, i could have had a second one at least.

Some Civs have it easier to defend against that, starting with a warrior instead of a scout for instance. But it *is* possible to fend this off.

@Nay

In the first 20 turns the events are disabled... but i must agree that 20 turns are by far too little time to put enough defense against 4+ archers ( depends of the map size ) and even if you can, your game probably is screwed anyway.

This is not the first time that this issue comes around, and some interesting proposals come out.... like only enabling archer uprise with Masonry ( it would give people time to get some defence ) or simply changing the archer uprise to a x-bow one....

Starting with a warrior, its perfectly possible to churn out a second one in 12-15 turns (Marathon here). Both will have a full 25% fortify + 25% city defense built in.

Settling the city on a hill will provide another 25%, chances are they attack across a rive.

So at worst, we have 2 Str. 2 Units with 50% defense bonus, at best 75-100% and Combat 1 (aggressive Leader).
Were not talking about Incas here either, they will generally laugh it off anyways.

Maybe Aggressive AI with raging barbarians made me too careful, but if i dont have a bottleneck or a coast in my back, i start out with at LEAST one warrior built.

If i went worker/work boat first, i would be easy prey, i give you that.

Whoever said they got hit by the barbarian event in MP... shouldn't you switch off animals, huts and barbs online? Combat is random enough, no need to add more unfairness.

What we're complaining about here is not the 4 (or 6 archers), but the 3000BC part. Of course I have more than 1 warrior by 3000BC anyway, but I won't have more than 3, and usually one is away scounting, far away, if it's not eaten by lions yet. 2 warriors with city defense and fortify, and 20% cultural, would boast 3.4 strength. 4 archers can laugh off odds like that easily.

Hm.
From what i gather here, negative events should only happen at a time when you are fully prepared to suffer no consequences at all.

Say, do you wait until your opponents have spearmen before you immortal-rush them? :p

2 warriors with city defense and fortify, and 20% cultural, would boast 3.4 strength. 4 archers can laugh off odds like that easily.#

Throw in 25% from a hill and they boast 95%, topping out at ~3.9, whis is something i would never attempt with 4 vanilla archers.

Being aggressive we have 105%, and here they stand with 4.1 :)
Thats pretty much the best you can get with 2 warriors and a scouting scout, proving they dont cross a river to attack(making archers 2.4).

I dont say its something you shouldnt worry about, but the sky isnt exactly falling either.

Random barbarian events make copper even more important than it was previously, which is not good for game balance.

Barbarian spearmen spawn near border = Very easy to handle with axes.
Swordsmen spawn near border = Easy to handle with axes.
Axes spawn near border = Quite easy to handle with axes.
Horse archers spawn near border = Easy to handle with spears.

All solutions allowed by copper (or by iron if you manage to get there before hordes appear...).


How about if you start without any metals and horses only? And no stone or industrious leader for GW. Gets quite risky investment on higher levels. And if you fail:

Barbarian spearmen = Best counter: archers with 30% change to win on attack (on flat ground).
Axes = only one easy to deal.
Swords or HAs = Archers should be able to hold cities if you have walls or cities are at hills. Chariots have 20% changes to win against str 6 units (if enemy doesn't receive defensive bonuses). Casualties from preventing barbarians pillaging you back to Stone Age will cost you about same as Stonehenge.

Getting Horseback Riding in time should be possible with Oracle slingshot, but even that gives you like something like 50% changes. And still you won't have a good counter for spears.

And of course barbarians will appear when your mounted units are acquiring metals from neighbours. With copper based units you have so much better changes that you can whip units and send them to defend improvements. Without, the best change is to whip archers and watch as barbarians pillage.

Well, having access to (and knowledge of) superiour metals and weaponry actually WAS quite decisive throughout history as we know it.

Going for metals sure is your best bet, but why shouldnt it?
BW frist is quite imperative on levels above Monarch, and since the AI does it, you should try to keep up.
Lest you aim for being outgunned but religiously enlightened.

I've had the barbarian uprising event end my game about 5 minutes into it--twice! No, it wasn't a matter of failing to build defenses--this happened when I only had one city, had just discovered bronze but not found any to hook up, and had one warrior out exploring and another defending the capitol. I suppose a really lucky warrior on a hill capitol might have been able to fight them off, but both times I was toast.

I wonder... I often play on aggressive AI and raging barbarian settings and haven't really been trounced by a stack of barbarian archers through a random event just yet... but I see no comments on scouting in this thread.

I find that I've become a master scouter - often uncovering the complete map without the aid of trading pretty early in the game. Often I have multiple scouts/warriors uncovering my perimeter. When I've finished scouting around my capital I start to station my scouts/warriors in places where I want to settle cities. What happens is that I usually end up with a zone of influence (or whatever players call it) where I believe barbarians can't materialize... but I'm not sure if that stops a barbarian uprising random event or not.

I do find that barbarian cities seem to spawn in areas players and AI have neglected to spend time scouting or in areas with resources such as copper. I could be wrong, but it sure seems that way...

... but I'm not sure if that stops a barbarian uprising random event or not.


No it doesn't. The random event and normal barb behaviour are totally different things. A barb event can be placed in a visible square, it doesn't matterlike it does with normal barbs. When it happened to me they appeared one tile away from my cultural border in the area that's always visible.

Theres the Archers, theres Swordsmen and horsearchers

just for the sake of completeness, there are also random uprisings of barb axemen and spearmen. those are still no problem if you have the great wall, as you said.

When playing on Emperor or higher, you quickly learn to have 3+ units in your bordercities at every second of the game :)

well, i've played quite a few games on emperor and higher. but just because i want, and know i need, units in my cities doesn't mean that i can have them in the quantities i want, in all the cities i want, "every second of the game" *giggle*. sometimes i still manage to win tho! not always. heck, i can lose on warlord level too.

Having a few more than necessary units in your border cities can can keep the AI out just because they see youve got some.

Have an archer there, they will come for you.
Have three, they will hesitate
Have six, they will go home and come back with twice as many units, just to see you have nine by now.

I was playing an emperor game last night when 3 pikemen showed up at my door. I immediately said "this is bull", as I was researching bronsworking after researching archery. Needles to say I survived because I had enough population and production to get 2 archers in 4 turns while starving my city. Lucky for me they attacked my city and not pillaged any of my lands ...

I just had this happen to me today with four spearmen. It was after turn 20 but still managed to scare the crap out of me. They came across Spanish lands straight for me. I REALLY lucked out, a turn or two before they entered my land the closest city's wall was built then the turn before they attacked that city I was able to upgrade my warrior into an axeman who easily smashed them all.

Happened to me yesterday. After 7 minutes of playing, I had two warriors when 4 archers showed up and took my capital. Dont know how many turns though. Still, there are no way that one can prepare for such an attack and still expand enough to compete on higher difficulties. I think this event should only happen a little later in the game when one has a bit more to defend with.

Those super early "Uprising" events need to go away.

[ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]


10 GOTO CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml
15 MAKE A BACK UP
20 FIND "EVENTTRIGGER_THE_HUNS" (also: "THE_GOTHS", "THE_VANDALS", "THE_PHILISTINES", "THE_VEDIC_ARYANS" -- I think that's it.)
30 SET: iPercentGamesActive to "0" for all of the above events.
35 SAVE YOUR NEW CIV4EventInfos.xml INTO A MOD FOLDER THE USUAL WAY
40 ENJOY A BARBARIAN EVENT-FREE GAME USING YOUR NEW MOD
50 END

[/ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]

:goodjob:

I would love to see Nay demonstrate how to stop 4 archers crashing your capital at 3000 BC on normal speed with a non-aggressive leader with a capital not settled on a hill.

I'm not going to play aggressive leaders, marathon speed, and settle all my capitals on hills even when the terrain doesn't dictate it just because there is a chance 4 archers will crash my capital at 3000BC.

In my experience, the longer speeds makes the early barbarian problem worse. I've never seen a barb attack my city on any speed prior to about 2500 BC, but they seem to attack earlier and stronger at Marathon and Epic.

It's not exactly like you have invested a lot of time and effort into a game at turn 20, so if it happens try to ride it out. If you fail... so what? Start a new game and go from there.

It may not be "fair" that this happens sometimes, but seriously, is it really that big of a deal?

I wish there were more barb ships (galleys, triremes, etc.).

Is there any Barbarian Privateers? I didn't play BtS enough to notice. Anyways, there is a need for this!

In my experience, the longer speeds makes the early barbarian problem worse. I've never seen a barb attack my city on any speed prior to about 2500 BC, but they seem to attack earlier and stronger at Marathon and Epic.

You get 20 turns grace at the start of the game when there are no random events. However, this doesn't scale with gamespeed, so the barb event can appear relatively earlier on Epic and Marathon speed (and is even more terminal).

The Vedics are a problem... they shouldn't be taking out helpless civs that early. If I'd wanted a 5 civ game I wouldn't have chosen 6.

I, too, have experienced the rage of the Vedics against my poorly defended city of Madrid in the year of 2900 BCE. It's only happened to me once in about 15 BtS games, though, so it's been rare for me.

If the tech prerequisite is just Polytheism, that can be pushed back to Priesthood or Monotheism to give players a little extra breathing room...especially because those technologies tend to wait a little bit because even the AI grabs some of the worker technologies early on. And it would still occur early in the game, just not 3000 BCE early.

That can't be a hard mod to do...I'll incorporate it into mine.

I lost at 3700 bc to a rogue archer right after another civilization was destroyed now thats broken

I edited the game to remove the Vedic random archer event (or all random 4 barb army event, not sure now).

They tend to wipe out AI civs as well.

I played a game on Immortal difficulty/epic speed the other day, and I had several barb archers at my door around 3200 BC....wtf? I reloaded 4000 bc and tried again, and was litterally forced to bee-line archery in order to survive. They were relentless.

You get 20 turns grace at the start of the game when there are no random events. However, this doesn't scale with gamespeed, so the barb event can appear relatively earlier on Epic and Marathon speed (and is even more terminal).

I'm not refering to the event, I'm talking about the regular barbs that randomly spawn in the fog of war.

Thats quite normal on highest difficulty levels, methinks.

No it doesn't. He's refering to the random event that suddenly plops a half dozen Archers on your border when all you've managed to build for your capital's defense is a single Warrior. That happened to me a short while ago and when I saw that stack, I just quit the game and started a new one. There's wasn't much point in continuing against those odds.I've had that happen too but if you play the "typical optimal" way and have BW in order to chop or whip already, it's not impossible to survive. I've seen cases where I'm sure to di but I go into emergency military buildup mode & manage to pull through it. the key is that these barbarion hordes -- even if they appear <6 squares away from your capital as they did for me -- seem to just sit around for a long time until they attack.

You should at least try to deal with challenges instead of just giving up without even seeing if it's possible to pull off ... although I did not have as many as a half dozen archers (is that really how many you had, six? or are you exaggerating? I think I've seen four, maybe five once ...)

On principle, events are not supposed to kill you, but rather add some flavour to the overall gaming experience. One time I've had an AI die before 2000BC, so I turned on the worldbuilder and saw one killed by 4 barbarian spearmen. I'm pretty sure it's a design mistake, of overestimating a civ's ability to defend against an early attack.

In fact, it's powerful enough in multiplayer. Ever heard of the Holken choke? It's where you play Mayans, and research bronze working and hunting. You chop out 2-3 holkens, turn down the slider and upgrade your 1-2 warriors, and attack the enemy capital before 2500BC. It's analogous to the barbarian uprising problem.

I've had that happen too but if you play the "typical optimal" way and have BW in order to chop or whip already, it's not impossible to survive.

Not if you've only been playing long enough to only build a single Warrior. That's exactly what happened to me. If I would have had an Archer or two, I wouldn't have given up, but the odds were pretty much hopeless at that point. 6 Barb Archers against 1 Warrior.

You should at least try to deal with challenges instead of just giving up without even seeing if it's possible to pull off ... although I did not have as many as a half dozen archers (is that really how many you had, six? or are you exaggerating? I think I've seen four, maybe five once ...)

The numbers depend on your map size. So, if you play smaller maps, you might only see 2 or 3. That could be survivable, if you get really lucky. However, on large and huge maps, there will be an overwhelming number of barbarian archers. Ordinarly, for a developed empire, this isn't a problem, because you will have more cities and more troops.

However, when you are just starting out, on a small map as well as a huge, you still only have one city.

One time I've had an AI die before 2000BC, ...

In one game I was just playing, the Arabians were wiped out around 3300 BC. That's barely enough time to build a single Warrior, especially for the AI. It almost always goes for a Worker first. So those Barbs no doubt descended on an unprotected city.

Actually, my last game the vedics popped, wiped out the civ to the north of my continent. I fought the remainders off, then used the warriors (yes, warriors) I had fought the archers off with to rush the opponent to the south.

End result: Huge continent just for me!

Now, if only I hadn't over-expanded in my eagerness, and run my economy into the dirt... :(

I lost the game to barb archers popping before 2000BC two times in a row. On the first day I installed BtS! Almost made me give up the game. But it makes it fun I must admit. One of the next times a group of spearmen came, but I was able to build enough archers to scare them and they just passed through.

So it happened to me again recently. I had just set out my first Settler/Warrior team to found my first city. I had no units at all protecting my capital and suddenly 6 Archers are at my doorstep. And no they didn't hang around the edges of my borders for awhile, they headed straight for my capital. With me still needing 9 turns to build my first Archer. Personally I think situations like this are totally ridiculous. It turns out to be a game breaking event, not just something to add some atmosphere or stir things up a bit. Which is what the events are supposed to do.

[ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]


10 GOTO CIV4EventInfos.xml
15 MAKE A BACK UP
20 FIND "EVENTTRIGGER_THE_HUNS" (also: "THE_GOTHS", "THE_VANDALS", "THE_PHILISTINES", "THE_VEDIC_ARYANS" -- I think that's it.)
30 SET: iPercentGamesActive to "0" for all of the above events.
35 SAVE YOUR NEW CIV4EventInfos.xml INTO A MOD FOLDER THE USUAL WAY
40 ENJOY A BARBARIAN EVENT-FREE GAME USING YOUR NEW MOD
50 END

[/ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]

:goodjob:

Alternatively, isn't there a flag in the events that says when it can trigger? Change that from "20" to some higher number and you can have it trigger at a time when it might be challenging instead of a deathknell for a growing civ.

Alternatively, isn't there a flag in the events that says when it can trigger? Change that from "20" to some higher number and you can have it trigger at a time when it might be challenging instead of a deathknell for a growing civ.


No, the events don't trigger in that fashion. The flags you're talking about here -- iPercentGamesActive and iWeight -- only govern if the event will be triggered. There are actually several different barbarian-spawning events, all of which are set to trigger to a different time based on whether or not certain key technologies have been discovered by any civ. The early event is called "The Vedic Aryans" and is eligible for triggering once any civ has discovered Archery + Polytheism.

The simplest fix is to set <iPercentGamesActive> and <iWeight> for Vedic Aryans to "0". Then you won't ever have the early barbarian archer event in a game, while still retaining the later barbarian events, which are triggered by later techs like Bronze Working, Iron Working, Mathematics, etc. A more complex fix will require you to edit the python file that triggers the events, and perhaps change the required technology for Vedic Aryans to one that occurs later than Archery + Polytheism.

Make sense?

Now it does. I had no access to the file in question so I didn't know there wasn't a turn-based trigger buried in there or not.

I've only really had one experience with this, and thank goodness I had the Great Wall. About 8 horse archers appeared right outside my borders, and I hadn't been able to reach a source of copper yet, so I had no spearmen to fend them off if it were not for the GW.

Anyways, I think the AI (Saladin) cheated to preserve itself, because the horse archers never took any of their cities even though Saladin only had 2 archers in each.

I'm very glad that most people agree it's a problem. What we are not agreeing with is what exactly is the problem.

No-one is saying that barbarian events should be completely removed. Rather, it's the "Vedic Aryan" barbarian event in particular that is troubling, because of the possible (not necessarily, that's where the confusing part is) early timing of the attack. The argument is, most civs do not stand a chance against 4 archers in 3000BC or even 2500BC, and historically it really shouldn't hit until 2000BC anyway. I have absolutely no problems with the axeman, swordsman, horse archers and other later barbarian events.

The argument is, most civs do not stand a chance against 4 archers in 3000BC or even 2500BC,...

I wish it were only 4, I always got 6 on Marathon. At least I did before I disabled that event, thanks to the info provided.

Now it does. I had no access to the file in question so I didn't know there wasn't a turn-based trigger buried in there or not.

You could always set up such a timer via Python, it's just there's no flag for it in the XML trigger file. In fact, although the XML files permit you to do some things, just about any event that is interesting or creative happening calls back to Python for something.

O'rly?
This may be topic 52 about that term...

~2000BC I got 2 horsies stacks in a row, thats 12 in 2 turns. within 4 turns of original horsies, i have 1 stack of spears emerge (except, in hind sight, are there barbarian spears? just shows how fast I quit)...this was befor the 'barbarian stacks go to capital' patch, so instead of 18 units burning er, 'my' capital, I had 18 units burning everything.

Yay, my one in a million Civ4 lucky dice roll got used on Barbarian Hordes, rather than a BFC of Gems, Gold and Floodplains.

I have no idea how to create my own mods or how to tweak the system but isn't there a way to delay the Vedic barbarians by, for example, making a trigger of 50% of civs have to have Archery + Polytheism before the uprising occurs. Alternatively have a time delay of 20 turns (or more) after 2 civs have discovered both Archery + Polytheism. This might serve to balance out the unfairness people have been referring to.

In my opinion, being unfair isn't necessarily a problem... it can still enhance gameplay (can I weather it somehow, if it targets someone else can I liberate a former capital from the barbarians etc).

Civ is unfair in a variety of ways, and with the current competence level of the AI it needs to be. At least with barbarians the game is honest about the randomness... as opposed to a last defender in a crucial siege seemingly always holding out in the face of a stated 1-in-a-million chance (damn you, Pratchett).

Early barbs have ruined many nice starts for me. I like them for it.

In my opinion, being unfair isn't necessarily a problem...

It is if you have a horde of 6 Archers descending on an undefended capital. That's just a gamebreaker that adds nothing to my enjoyment of playing. It only serves to piss me off.

And WHO left their capital undefended, Willem?! And did YOU beeline for archery that game?

The barbarian incident is just another factor we have to contend against, and so it balances out the rush for bronze or for writing, whatever.

Just drop it. Very early barbarian attacks are just another tension-producing aspect of the game, which INCREASES its value. If all else fails (like your only city), then restart from the 4000 BC auto-save.

And WHO left their capital undefended, Willem?!

And what choice did I have, sit around and build Warrior after Warrior on the off chance I might get this event, or send off my only Warrior with a Settler to build a new city? I'd say the choice is pretty clear considering that event is the only thing that can hurt me in my capital at 3600 BC.

And did YOU beeline for archery that game?

As a matter of fact I did, which you'd realize if you had actually read my posts. I specifically mentioned that I was still 9 turns away from my first Archer. So I had only been playing the game long enough to build 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, and not quite 1 Archer. Tell me how that is a good event to have in the game?

Just drop it. Very early barbarian attacks are just another tension-producing aspect of the game, which INCREASES its value.

We're not refering to the regular barb attacks here, we're talking about a potentially gamebreaking event that shouldn't be in place. The normal barbs I can handle, at least with them I have enough time to prepare. You don't stand a chance with the random event if it happens so early, losing is just a forgone conclusion.

If all else fails (like your only city), then restart from the 4000 BC auto-save.

Why should I? Why should the game be so constructed that the player is screwed right from the very start? That's just poor game design IMO. Besides, it's faster just to start a brand new game.

I think its not possible on all games, even if you have random events on..since some amount of random events gets picked from the pool all for that specific game.

I love barb event, and don't understand why people make it so big deal. Otoh, i hate repeating random events on same game/tile.. there nothing as frustrating as having farm bandits or mine collapse happening repeatetly.. esp. on OCC :mad:. I dunno if it could happen with truffles or +gold events, but i have not had such a good luck streak yet.

Ok here's a point on the barb event, has anyone actually let them take your cap , or just said "Oh its undefended I might as well quit".....cos I've quit before in disgust....BUT

One time I didn't (I had a pretty hopeless start and wasn't too bothered)...6 vedic archers spawn on my caps border. They wander in next turn, then to my amazement, they walk straight past the cap, and wander off to lands unknown. This has happened every single time this event has occurred.

In my experience then, if the barb event happens obscenely early they will not attack the player They WILL if its past a certain time, but not if its very early, and if this event happens later on when you SHOULD have at least some troops to defend, its bad luck, but shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I had this on the Warlord level, and the buggers took my capital, so I reloaded to see if there was anything I could do to avoid it, and on the reload, they minced straight through my 2 city civ, and took out Shaka, who was next door to me... Oh how I laughed, especially when I took a couple of cats and swords a few dozen turns later and took Shaka's cap, which was being defended my just two of those four original archers.... (The other two had wandered off or died!) One cap city location practically free of charge!

Sounds pretty broken to me. I've had this happen in a few of the last games I've played, they just turn up, and I've noticed them repeatedly ignore the AI to go for my civ. I mean literally walking next to AI units and then heading north to my cities that are 6 tiles away when AI cities are 2 tiles away. That's the worst part of it all really- knowing that I am always going to be the target, even if they spawn miles away.

Ok here's a point on the barb event, has anyone actually let them take your cap , or just said "Oh its undefended I might as well quit".....cos I've quit before in disgust....BUT

One time I didn't (I had a pretty hopeless start and wasn't too bothered)...6 vedic archers spawn on my caps border. They wander in next turn, then to my amazement, they walk straight past the cap, and wander off to lands unknown. This has happened every single time this event has occurred.

In my experience then, if the barb event happens obscenely early they will not attack the player They WILL if its past a certain time, but not if its very early, and if this event happens later on when you SHOULD have at least some troops to defend, its bad luck, but shouldn't be too much of a problem.

It depends on who gets the popup. The code has the AI go on "lemmings suicidal" mode against the unlucky player who gets the popup. If you just see the blue box in the upper right hand corner that says there has been a massive barbarian uprising (and the button says "we'll bear the brunt of this" or something like that), then they are coming for you. If all you see is the white text across the top that a barbarian uprising has occurred, then you are completely safe.

I actually exploited this in one of my previous games...the Philistines spawned 4 spearmen, but I didn't get the popup, just the notification. My axes followed them through my territory and straight into Mali lands, where their suicidal assault on the defending Skirmishers weakened them enough that my axes could sack Timbuktu (it was a glorious prize, with 5 seafood resources and floodplains). It was the easiest axe-rush I've ever done.

It depends on who gets the popup. The code has the AI go on "lemmings suicidal" mode against the unlucky player who gets the popup. If you just see the blue box in the upper right hand corner that says there has been a massive barbarian uprising (and the button says "we'll bear the brunt of this" or something like that), then they are coming for you. If all you see is the white text across the top that a barbarian uprising has occurred, then you are completely safe.

I actually exploited this in one of my previous games...the Philistines spawned 4 spearmen, but I didn't get the popup, just the notification. My axes followed them through my territory and straight into Mali lands, where their suicidal assault on the defending Skirmishers weakened them enough that my axes could sack Timbuktu (it was a glorious prize, with 5 seafood resources and floodplains). It was the easiest axe-rush I've ever done.

Thanks for that, it follows what I've experienced when I stop and think about it :thumbsup:

The AI having a uprising on their doors can be pretty bad to you if you can't take advantage of it. I had a game with Sitting Bull in which the chinese were obliterated by a uprise ( saw it in the end... the only thing I received ingame was a message saying "The chinese civilization was destroyed" in 2900ishs BC ). QSH shared a large continent with washington and the americans became a mamouth sized civ.. I ended winning the day by a fortunate chain of events ( a bitter and prolongated war between washington and GK that done a pretty big damge to washington finances ( I bet that he made too much units... ) and a "saved by the bell" GK intervention against a cultural aiming Hatty ( razed her 3rd legendary-able city ) that gave me time go space ) , But I learned the lesson: not always a bad thing for your enemies is a good thing to you ( unlike a certain Sid tip says... )

As I see it, the uprisings add much depth and enjoyment to the game when they happen to someone else.
Can you snatch the prize before someone else does? if you can't, will the civ that got it be stretched too thin and ripe for the plucking before it becomes a monster? Good times all around.

The flip side is that sometimes, you are the one taken down (and, all too often, taken out). While this ends games without fault of your own, it would be more unfair if the uprisings happened and never targeted you.

Never had a problem with them on Normal or Epic speed, unless I neglect my military. Which is the way it should be.

The Partisans event on the other hand...

It depends on who gets the popup. The code has the AI go on "lemmings suicidal" mode against the unlucky player who gets the popup. If you just see the blue box in the upper right hand corner that says there has been a massive barbarian uprising (and the button says "we'll bear the brunt of this" or something like that), then they are coming for you. If all you see is the white text across the top that a barbarian uprising has occurred, then you are completely safe.

Actually multiple times this has happened, where the easily-missed text appears saying that the Barbs seek to destroy Civilization... and then they stll target me and only me. There's got to be a bug in there somewhere...

I play on Noble, Marathon speed, and have never the barbarian event happen to me. However, the AI seems to take brunt of these events. In a recent game I played, large map with 10 civs, including myself, 4 of the AI civs were wiped out by 2400 BC.

It depends on who gets the popup. The code has the AI go on "lemmings suicidal" mode against the unlucky player who gets the popup. If you just see the blue box in the upper right hand corner that says there has been a massive barbarian uprising (and the button says "we'll bear the brunt of this" or something like that), then they are coming for you. If all you see is the white text across the top that a barbarian uprising has occurred, then you are completely safe.

I actually exploited this in one of my previous games...the Philistines spawned 4 spearmen, but I didn't get the popup, just the notification. My axes followed them through my territory and straight into Mali lands, where their suicidal assault on the defending Skirmishers weakened them enough that my axes could sack Timbuktu (it was a glorious prize, with 5 seafood resources and floodplains). It was the easiest axe-rush I've ever done.

If the barbs spawned next to your civ then went through it to attack another civ, that's a bit odd.... The Python code is supposed to command the barbs to spawn in a plot that is, among other things, adjacent to the 'lucky' triggering player...



map = gc.getMap()

for i in range(map.numPlots()):
plot = map.plotByIndex(i)
if (plot.getOwner() == -1 and not plot.isWater() and not plot.isImpassable() and plot.area().getCitiesPerPlayer(kTriggeredData.ePla yer) > 0 and plot.isAdjacentPlayer(kTriggeredData.ePlayer, true)):
return true


I'm still going back and forth in my mind over whether or not this needs to be changed. I have seen posted examples of both AI and Humans getting PWN3D (I think that's the correct term) by Vedic Aryans....but, then again, the wages of neglecting your defenses (building settlers and workers, pursuing religions in lieu of Archery or Bronze Working,) can be death.

@Gibsie: This isn't bugged. The event has only a 20% chance of even being in the 'pool' of events to be triggered in any given game. You're just lucky!

EDIT: On second thought, it may actually be SevenSprings' fault: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=256562
:D

idk y but teh only events i usualy get are teh vedic aryan barbs or the forge being burnt down. And most of the time im not prepared for such a large scale attack my second turn. i agreee its really stupid how such brute force can be allowed on ur 1st or 2nd turn

Just happened to me. I had a grand total of one city and 2 warriors who were exploring when suddenly get the message and 4 archers start closing in on my capital. Needless to say it was game over. Which is a shame because it was a sweet map and I had some interesting war plans already lined up.

Then in my next game it happened again. However, for some reason the archers came towards my capital but then turned around and I never saw them again... Stroke of luck? Either way I built the great wall just in case.

This really does need to be patched. Loosing the entire game because of one RNG roll isn't fun.

now we know how they feel...

Had it happen to me as the Spanish. My heroic warrior killed 5 archers before subcumbing to overwhelming odds. At that time I'd built a scout and was partway through a workboat so I suppose if I'd just built warriors from the beginning of the game and turtled I would've held them off. That would be pretty bad strategy for the 99% of games where this event doesn't occur really early though

3400 BC is very early and still the AI (probably the Romans) who got hit, survived. No city was captured or razed by the barbs.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1410/vediceventjw2.jpg

This event is totally broken. On lower difficulty levels if it happens to the AI, it will completely kill the AI. it happens somewhere around turn 15-25. For an AI civ to be destroyed by turn 15-25 by a random event is just retarded. It detracts from the game...totally dumb, the firaxis programmers must have been smoking something funky. On higher difficulty levels the AI will repel the barbs with their super quick archers, but at that level if it happens to you, you are toast. You simply cannot build a defence in time to stop it. There should be some warning and it should happen later.

I had it happen to me in a recent game, but it was very very strange.

It was 2500 BC, I had just founded my second city and an uprising of 6 Barabrian Spearman comes up. They appeared right outside my second city and I got a message saying something about a massive barabarian uprising.

They walked passed my second city, right through me capitals territory, walked one square away from my capital, defended only by an archer, passed it by and carried on North.

I never saw any word of another Civ being destroyed.

It was very weird.

The archer aprising happened in my last game. 4 of yem spawned near my border. I was on a land mass with one other civ, fortunatelly rather then going after me they went after my neighbour....he got wiped out. That was on monarch level and it happened so early that the even the AI didn't have time to found a second city, not to mention at that level AI starts with free archer and archery tech......:confused: When the barbs turned around after me they were dispatched by my very first axeman I've built.

Yeh this is so true, in my first game i was totally unexpecting it, LUCKY the same turn theylanded my great wall finished, and they stayed out, lol, int he nick of time

The archer aprising happened in my last game. 4 of yem spawned near my border. I was on a land mass with one other civ, fortunatelly rather then going after me they went after my neighbour....he got wiped out. That was on monarch level and it happened so early that the even the AI didn't have time to found a second city, not to mention at that level AI starts with free archer and archery tech......:confused: When the barbs turned around after me they were dispatched by my very first axeman I've built.

Hi

The AI starting with archery at the higher levels is one of the reasons why the barbie attacks happen so early. As soon as certain techs are discovered there is then a chance to trigger a barbie uprising of type depending on techs like axemane or spearmen after BW is discovered, Swordsmen after iron working, horsemen after HR etc. And since on higher levels archery is "discovered" right off the bat as free techs to the AI's the archer uprising has chance to trigger from turn 1 :/. Even on lower levels it can b a pain if any civ with hunting as starting tech researches archery right off or beelines BW or if someone discovers one of barbie trigger techs from a hut or something.

Kaytie

Hi

The AI starting with archery at the higher levels is one of the reasons why the barbie attacks happen so early. As soon as certain techs are discovered there is then a chance to trigger a barbie uprising of type depending on techs like axemane or spearmen after BW is discovered, Swordsmen after iron working, horsemen after HR etc. And since on higher levels archery is "discovered" right off the bat as free techs to the AI's the archer uprising has chance to trigger from turn 1 :/. Even on lower levels it can b a pain if any civ with hunting as starting tech researches archery right off or beelines BW or if someone discovers one of barbie trigger techs from a hut or something.

Kaytie

Zomg that made me :lol: :lol: :lol:

The barbarian horde attack is one of the better game mechanics.

Hopefully it kills those players at Diety level. They can reload and say in their minds "i didn't really lose"

Lower to mid level players benefit as barbarian hordes provide a much needed and dramatic break from early game repetition of strategy- an added element of luck either good or bad.

At the psycho level they are the demon ai, the serpent techno-ghost. :scan:

If anything they need to beef up the incident and let the barbarians
get a wolf or a bear as a scout/attack unit that can enter your territory first.

In my recent game (Dutch, Prince, large Continents, high Sea level) an early barbarian attack has been very profitable for me.

I got a message about Vedic Aryans (or so) and a few turns later Arabs (who had founded Hinduism) were destroyed. Fortunately, the holy city remained and was captured by Native Americans, then by my neighbours, Inca. In the meantime I managed to hook Horses and Copper and my scout units revealed that Huayna's copper was still not mined and his horses were... irrigated. You know what I mean ;)

Before my attack force reached Cuzco he managed to hook both resources but his force consisted of Quechuas and unpromoted Archers plus two Chariots and (not in Cuzco, fortunately) one Axeman. Attack and I lost almost half of my assault force but Huayna lost Cuzco and precious resources :) Now I want to take Mecca - with my new CRII swordsmen and Huayna trying to settle new cities it should not be very difficult...


S.

If the barbs spawned next to your civ then went through it to attack another civ, that's a bit odd.... The Python code is supposed to command the barbs to spawn in a plot that is, among other things, adjacent to the 'lucky' triggering player...



map = gc.getMap()

for i in range(map.numPlots()):
plot = map.plotByIndex(i)
if (plot.getOwner() == -1 and not plot.isWater() and not plot.isImpassable() and plot.area().getCitiesPerPlayer(kTriggeredData.ePla yer) > 0 and plot.isAdjacentPlayer(kTriggeredData.ePlayer, true)):
return true


I'm still going back and forth in my mind over whether or not this needs to be changed. I have seen posted examples of both AI and Humans getting PWN3D (I think that's the correct term) by Vedic Aryans....but, then again, the wages of neglecting your defenses (building settlers and workers, pursuing religions in lieu of Archery or Bronze Working,) can be death.

@Gibsie: This isn't bugged. The event has only a 20% chance of even being in the 'pool' of events to be triggered in any given game. You're just lucky!

EDIT: On second thought, it may actually be SevenSprings' fault: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=256562
:D

I searched for a save game to post, just to prove that I'm not lying, but my autosaves have progressed far past this point (into the AD times). Unfortunately, I can't post anything to back it up.

@Gibsie: That is strange behavior that I have not observed. I'm paying close attention to it, though, and I'll see if I end up getting attacked even if I don't get the popup. So far, that hasn't happened, though.

This happened to me in a team game I was playing with two other people last night. The three of us were on one team, and we were playing 5 other teams of 3 AI each. Suddenly I get the popup and 6 Barbarian Horse Archers spawned about 8 tiles from my Capital. It was about turn 20, and I hadn't built any units yet. Needless to say that stack steamrolled through both my cities. We quit and started a new game. Kind of neat to see this type of thing happen sometimes, except when it happens to you! LoL

Rhuarc, why are you playing multiplayer with any of barbs, animals and events on? Turn all those things OFF when you play online, to reduce the luck factor.

Yes sometimes I get the event and they spawn next to me but walk right through my territory and attack someone else. That does happen. In any case, I still think it's a stupid event. Why? Because I don't want an AI to die at the beginning of the game. Really stupid event.

Rhuarc, why are you playing multiplayer with any of barbs, animals and events on? Turn all those things OFF when you play online, to reduce the luck factor.

While it was multi, it wasn't really. Myself and two friends were playing on one team and we were playing against 5 other teams of 3 AI each. In those cases we like to leave that stuff on. We do turn that stuff off though if we are playing against each other or other people.

I don't think all barbarian attacks should be taken out, but the super-early archer attack is just dumb. I've been on both ends of this one, both being wiped out and having a neighbor or two wiped out. In one case I'd rushed the GW super early and the horde of archers actually ended up taking out the only other civ on my continent. I don't think I've ever finished a game where it's happened to me or a neighbor, as it either leaves me crippled (usually dead) or makes the game too easy.

Rhuarc, why are you playing multiplayer with any of barbs, animals and events on? Turn all those things OFF when you play online, to reduce the luck factor.

The luck factor is what makes Civ fun... :rolleyes:

It should start at least a little bit later, yes. It's just a waste of time if you're planning, building up etc and then suddenly barbarians appear before you have the chance to set up halfway decent defenses against them and you lose the game. You can still have players be on alert while not making the game end no matter what via random occurrence at a horrible time.

Could someone explain where and how to edit the requirements for the Vedic Aryans event? I don't want to remove it completely, I'd know how to do that, just change when it can trigger by changing the required techs or the number of players with the techs.

Getting kinda annoyed having these early barbarians roasting our a**es. It should be fixed in a next patch.

I just got BTS, and in my very first game, I was Barb-Archer rushed, heh. I knew I was in trouble when I got a message that the Greek civ had been destroyed (Alexander was the only other leader I had met, turned out we were alone on our "island", but had another big island only Galley distance away, with 2 other civs on it).

Shame too, I was off to a great start! Found a city site for my 2nd with Stone, 2 food, and Gold. Oh well. I actually laughed and laughed when it happened. Had I been more astute, I probably could have fought it off, all I really needed to do was switch to all warriors after I got the "Greeks destroyed" message.

Yeah that event can be pretty nasty. I saw it go off last night in a Monarch game and a couple turns later crazy Monty bit the dust. So some times it can be beneficial too. ;)

any fix for this?

any fix for this?

Way to revive a dead thread...

Quite frankly there is nothing to fix. It is a game mechanic that introduces a good amount of uncertainty to any game, which for a game like CIV is good. Yes, sometimes you get hit and lose. Other times it opens up an opportunity that you can take advantage of in the game.

I still can't believe everyone complaining about losing a game in the first 20 turns. I mean - so what? It's not like you have wasted a lot of time and effort yet. Just restart and go on your way. It's not like it happens in every game.

I think they should still happen however you should get at least 2-3 more turns warning before it does like.

"Rumors of a barbarian horde that have decimated the countryside are the spreading through your cities"

that way you have time to whip a few soldiers into place.

i once see a barb rush in just a few turns, and someone is destroyed..., another one lose one city

I remember playing a game on Monarch where I saw this event many times......... quite often if it spawns near you, you're screwed, oh well restart and try again.

However there was a game in particular where I got the event and saw 4 archers like everyone talks about, and they always beeline diagonally. They left me alone and wiped out Sitting Bull (haha) and I thought sweet, I will take his cap. 8 turns later they are beelining me and although I put up a fight, they wiped me out too!!!

I have had this in MP games as well, I was wiped out 3 consecutive games in a row with a mate of mine in a duel with AI......... we had a good laugh and I hosted from that point on.

I don't have an issue with the random event, I just wish when I get knocked out I could watch the barbs go for a domination victory!!!!

I've had one of these very early, but the stack walked next to my capital, then my second city and kept going into Monty's empire? Why?

Way to revive a dead thread...

Quite frankly there is nothing to fix. It is a game mechanic that introduces a good amount of uncertainty to any game, which for a game like CIV is good. Yes, sometimes you get hit and lose. Other times it opens up an opportunity that you can take advantage of in the game.

I still can't believe everyone complaining about losing a game in the first 20 turns. I mean - so what? It's not like you have wasted a lot of time and effort yet. Just restart and go on your way. It's not like it happens in every game.
game should be playable and winable, if you'll get 5x barb spearmans in 3400 BC near city you cannot win. I know I could start new game and tried to get more lucky, but what if I'm playing multiplayer with 3-4 friends, and we all must restart game every time when some of us get that event!! :mad:

In Civ 3, there's various barbarian settings. But in Civ 4, you can't
have sedentary barbs. So just leave your settings at "no barbs".
Solves the problem, doesn't it?:)

No it doesn't. What he's referring to is one of the random events that plops a stack of barbs at your doorstep. So even having barbs turned off you could still get it. The event itself has to be turned off, which is entirely possible. Though I forget how I did it I'm afraid. There's a thread around here somewhere that deals with this though, since that's how I learned how to shut it off.

Good Lord, this is the thread. Man this one's old!

In my last game I got like four of these events. Thank goodness it was a OCC and I had gotten the GW!

The events wiped out both of the AI's on my continent and weakened the fourth, which I then wiped out with Praets...:lol:

game should be playable and winable

Yes, the game should be playable.
Yes, the game should be winnable.
No, it should not be winnable each and every time.
For many people, it is the uncertainty that prompts them to load up the game again.
You may feel different, and that is fine.
However, I do not need a game where a win is guaranteed.
But the barbarian uprising is a real pain. On that we agree.

I've had this happen a few times. But, never lost the game from it.

Yes, the game should be playable.
Yes, the game should be winnable.
No, it should not be winnable each and every time.
For many people, it is the uncertainty that prompts them to load up the game again.
You may feel different, and that is fine.
However, I do not need a game where a win is guaranteed.
But the barbarian uprising is a real pain. On that we agree.
winnable mean able to win, not guaranteed to win

winnable mean able to win, not guaranteed to win
If we are agreeing on this point then I mis-read your earlier post. Sorry.

Had the event many times but just a couple was it directed to me, once It cost me a MP game (two human players), another I handled it fine enough (even though I had 4-5 spearman directrly attacking my capital 3 turns after the event started), this was also a MP game (four human players this time).
I like this event as it is, for as many reasons I read early on on this thread;diversity, randomness, surprise.
I bet many of those rookies claiming the protective trait is so stupid/underpowered will now be arguing that this event should be removed/changed.. ha!!

I've played a ton now, and the only one that is truly rigged is the archers one. There's simply no way to have anything remotely resembling a decent opening and still defend 4 archers hitting between 3000-2800 BC. You'd have to beeline archery or something and just pump them out...probably without even making a worker! Even then it isn't a guarantee...since monarch and higher AI's START with archery and seem to get wiped out by this event...

Otherwise, you'd stand a good chance of getting killed anyway. If you go bronze working before archery, forget it.

I suppose it's possible to whip out 2-3 more warriors depending on where they spawn...but then you're talking 2-3 angry faces and crippled expansion...which is game-breaking at higher difficulties. Again, this is assuming you HAVE BRONZEWORKING AT ALL, which you won't if you didn't start with mining.

Basically, if you're playing properly, the ARCHER BARB event @ 3000-2800 BC is just an instant YOU LOSE BECAUSE...WELL NO REASON BUT YOU LOSE ANYWAY BECAUSE THE GAME WANTS YOU TO.

The others come late enough that you can actually have defense (even if it's just archers, a couple of them in a city will pwn spears and axes, HA's take some prep but are doable...and if the city has walls archers trounce all of that stuff).

The archers need to be pulled. Very badly.

This kind reminds me the random event Killer Ship in Sword of the Star (anyone played it?), no matter how good you're doing having that event in your system is guaranteed death.

Personally I never had an event that early, I got it once although I don't remember when, I had 3 cities so it must be after a while. A full compliment of Spear and Swordman right at my border. Ouch, I fought them off after losing something like ... 3/4 of my military strength.