I really have to appologise here in advance for what will surely seem the most basic of questions but they're really bugging me at the moment.

I'm a long term civ player dating back to civ 1, but I've never really challenged myself at the game. I've always tended towards comfortable games, where I win at a canter and never have to worry too much about small mistakes. In Civ 4 this equates to Prince, but in BTS I've actually had some very challenging games on Noble :eek: (early war as egypt vs the greeks for example from a very bad starting position). I can't remember this ever happening before (outside of multiplayer) but I've started loving the challenge and I'm now wanting to push myself onto the higher levels. Obviously I need to take this one step at a time, but the problem I'm having at the moment is identifying my weaknesses, specifically, in the early game.

I guess the best way to explain where I'm coming from is to break down my opening plays into a number of points with a question:

I found my capital, produce a warrior or two (or scout if I have the tech) and simply explore while the city grows. As soon as the pop hits 3 I build a worker, then immediately after I go for a settler and find the nearest decent spot for city number 2.

I understand from these forums that worker prioritised over settler is generally the way to go, but am I doing it too soon? Should I wait for the city to max out first (i.e. when happy citizens = sad)? Is this too soon to start expansion?

When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

This is certainly not a stategy I would want to take into a multiplayer game so I'm wondering what other people normally do at this stage. Also is this expansion too fast? Once the third city is up you're obviously taking a loss economically, and villages haven't yeilded much cash research may have to be lowered before getting courthouses. I don't have a specific question here, just looking for advice.

On the tech tree, no matter which civ I pick, I always beeline for monotheism, hopefully picking up hinduism on route. After that I don't have any real plan. Obviously I want alphabet asap, but BW, AH, and IW normally distract me enough so that I'm getting alphabet sometime just before 1 AD.

The route I take doesn't seem to matter on Noble, but in a recent monarch game I started having second thoughts about it. I know every game is different and it depends on the circumstances at the time, but is there a better or "best" way?

Workers. I've gotten lazy. In the early versions of civ you had to do everything yourself, but as soon as that automatic option became available (civ 3 I think?) I took it and have become dependant on it. I never really had an issue with it until I started paying attention to them in BTS. Sometimes they rip up improvements they have literally just laid down, replace them with something else, immediately rip them up again and lay down the original imrprovement. This only seems to happen late in the game but still, by automating my workers I've not been using cottage ecomony, which I want to and I'm probably missing out on one or two other things as well.

So to what extent, if any, should you automate?

Religion. Even if I get Hinduism and Judaism (about 90% of the time vs the AI) I usually also want more. To do this I will build the oracle and take Code of Laws as my free tech. Also with the oracle I get my points towards a great prophet and I'll lightbulb my first one to get theology. I've found this does not work on any level higher than prince, and that I'm lucky to even found a religion on monarch. The reason I do this is for the extra research from multiple monasteries (is the 10% cumulative?) and the massive amounts of culture these generate.

Versus the AI this is one of the cornerstones of my strategy, however I'm again having second thoughts. Is there a better way?

The question here is; is it better to focus on my ecomony and go for currency etc (so I can keep research high), rather than spending/wasting time on religions and monasteries? Is there an optimal number of religions basically?


I do actually have more questions but in the time I've written this I've sunk 5 beers so time to call it quits, plus the post is starting to resemble an essay! I really appreciate any pointers people can give, and thanks again!

Welcome to CFC, Alzir! :D


I found my capital, produce a warrior or two (or scout if I have the tech) and simply explore while the city grows. As soon as the pop hits 3 I build a worker, then immediately after I go for a settler and find the nearest decent spot for city number 2.

I understand from these forums that worker prioritised over settler is generally the way to go, but am I doing it too soon? Should I wait for the city to max out first (i.e. when happy citizens = sad)? Is this too soon to start expansion?


I actually think you're building the worker too later and settler too soon. In general my very first build is a worker. No warriors, no letting the city grow. Once I get the worker out, I let the city grow to the happy cap (or at least, pretty close to it), then I bang out a settler.


When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

This is certainly not a stategy I would want to take into a multiplayer game so I'm wondering what other people normally do at this stage. Also is this expansion too fast? Once the third city is up you're obviously taking a loss economically, and villages haven't yeilded much cash research may have to be lowered before getting courthouses. I don't have a specific question here, just looking for advice.


I usually expand as quickly as possible until I have to drop my slider down to about 60%. That's usually my sign to pause on expansion until my economy picks up.


On the tech tree, no matter which civ I pick, I always beeline for monotheism, hopefully picking up hinduism on route. After that I don't have any real plan. Obviously I want alphabet asap, but BW, AH, and IW normally distract me enough so that I'm getting alphabet sometime just before 1 AD.

The route I take doesn't seem to matter on Noble, but in a recent monarch game I started having second thoughts about it. I know every game is different and it depends on the circumstances at the time, but is there a better or "best" way?


Chasing early religions has a high opportunity cost in my opinion, so I never gun for them. My priorities are 1) Research techs needed to improve the tiles around my capital, 2) Research defensive techs, either BW or Archery, 3) Start beelining towards alphabet. That's just my preference.


Workers. I've gotten lazy. In the early versions of civ you had to do everything yourself, but as soon as that automatic option became available (civ 3 I think?) I took it and have become dependant on it. I never really had an issue with it until I started paying attention to them in BTS. Sometimes they rip up improvements they have literally just laid down, replace them with something else, immediately rip them up again and lay down the original imrprovement. This only seems to happen late in the game but still, by automating my workers I've not been using cottage ecomony, which I want to and I'm probably missing out on one or two other things as well.

So to what extent, if any, should you automate?


You shouldn't automate at all. Maybe for the tedious tasks like when you want to road everything, but in the early game--when you have only a few workers to worry about--there's really no reason or excuse not to take a personal, vested interest in what improvements get built around your cities. In the end, comprehensive city specialization relies on dedicated worker management.


Religion. Even if I get Hinduism and Judaism (about 90% of the time vs the AI) I usually also want more. To do this I will build the oracle and take Code of Laws as my free tech. Also with the oracle I get my points towards a great prophet and I'll lightbulb my first one to get theology. I've found this does not work on any level higher than prince, and that I'm lucky to even found a religion on monarch. The reason I do this is for the extra research from multiple monasteries (is the 10% cumulative?) and the massive amounts of culture these generate.

Versus the AI this is one of the cornerstones of my strategy, however I'm again having second thoughts. Is there a better way?

The question here is; is it better to focus on my ecomony and go for currency etc (so I can keep research high), rather than spending/wasting time on religions and monasteries? Is there an optimal number of religions basically?

Again, I think early religions has an unreasonably high opportunity cost at higher levels when the hammers and beakers are better spent getting other improvements and techs. Hogging religions is actually a bit of a diplomatic detriment, since it's nice to have the AIs splintered along different religious blocs, making negotiating the diplomatic arena a bit easier.

I do, however, almost always get Confucianism in my games, since its usually along my tech path. That's the one I usually wind up building a shrine for, if I haven't conquered one already.

I actually gun for Culture Victories quite often, so you'd think that it would be in my best interest to found religions, even if just for the monasteries. But again, just not worth the trouble to monopolize as many religions as possible.

First of all, never automate workers before 1500 AD.

Oh and welcome to CFC :goodjob:

I found my capital, produce a warrior or two (or scout if I have the tech) and simply explore while the city grows. As soon as the pop hits 3 I build a worker, then immediately after I go for a settler and find the nearest decent spot for city number 2.

I understand from these forums that worker prioritised over settler is generally the way to go, but am I doing it too soon? Should I wait for the city to max out first (i.e. when happy citizens = sad)? Is this too soon to start expansion?

I think it's rather too late. In many (most ?) games the worker beeing the first build is the way to go.

Build a worker right away while teching what's needed to improve the Food ressource near your capital, then go on improving. A city should never work unimproved tiles, if you can prevent it.

The most notable exceptions are: (1) Teching BW first - then you can build a Warrior while growing to size 2, then put some Hammers in Worker, to Whip is as soon as you have BW. (2) Having seafood you build a workboat as soon as you have fishing. Often teching fishing first is a good idea here.

When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

This is certainly not a stategy I would want to take into a multiplayer game so I'm wondering what other people normally do at this stage. Also is this expansion too fast? Once the third city is up you're obviously taking a loss economically, and villages haven't yeilded much cash research may have to be lowered before getting courthouses. I don't have a specific question here, just looking for advice.

Sending a Unsecorted Settler is dangerous, as he might become Lion-fodder, if you fogbust, however, and the settler arrives, there is nothing wrong with leaving the city unprotected for a short while.

You should check if you really need the monument: If the ressourses/tiles you want are in the first tier of the city, skip monument. You can build it really fast when the city has grown a bit. Sometimes you dont even need it, if a religion spreads to your city -it will give you the boarder-pop for free.

With the second city - as with the 1-st, 3-rd, n-th - dont work unimproved tiles. Send a Worker from your capital right away, or build one really-really fast.

On the tech tree, no matter which civ I pick, I always beeline for monotheism, hopefully picking up hinduism on route. After that I don't have any real plan. Obviously I want alphabet asap, but BW, AH, and IW normally distract me enough so that I'm getting alphabet sometime just before 1 AD.

The route I take doesn't seem to matter on Noble, but in a recent monarch game I started having second thoughts about it. I know every game is different and it depends on the circumstances at the time, but is there a better or "best" way?

As said above, you allways want to improve your ressources ASAP. I.E. in Capital. This usually kind of dictates your early teching.

BW is usually very important - Slavery and Trees are huge to speed up important builds in the early game

[Workers]

So to what extent, if any, should you automate?

Not automating will allways bring better results. If you have to automate make sure "Workers dont chop trees" and "Workers leave previos improvements" are checked (game options)

Automated trade route is usally safe.

Religion. Even if I get Hinduism and Judaism (about 90% of the time vs the AI) I usually also want more. To do this I will build the oracle and take Code of Laws as my free tech. Also with the oracle I get my points towards a great prophet and I'll lightbulb my first one to get theology. I've found this does not work on any level higher than prince, and that I'm lucky to even found a religion on monarch. The reason I do this is for the extra research from multiple monasteries (is the 10% cumulative?) and the massive amounts of culture these generate.

Versus the AI this is one of the cornerstones of my strategy, however I'm again having second thoughts. Is there a better way?

The 10% from monasteries is cumulative. Founding more than one religion is only rarely beneficial. You only really benefit from a religion if it is whitespread (more money from Holy Shrine) - you dont have the ressources to spread multiple religions. Also you want to have maximal multiplier bonus (Wall Street) on your holy shrine. As you seldom get more than one holy city in the same place.... Well....

I.E. Pursuing early religions often distracts you from important economic development. It's not allways bad, but you got to have a plan why you doing this - for example: Found a religion in Capital, as Capital looks commerce heavy and will be your Wall Street City later.

The question here is; is it better to focus on my ecomony and go for currency etc (so I can keep research high), rather than spending/wasting time on religions and monasteries? Is there an optimal number of religions basically?

In most cases economy is more important long term. Monastereis are good, only in your reserach heavy city - this is the only place where those 10% actually matter. But you dont need to found all religions to have monasteries. Wait for Ai religions to spread to you.

Take a loo on the "Strategy and Tips" forum. there Example games, "Strategy Articles" and general discussion of all the topics you asked about - and more.

Probably too basic of a thought for the tips you're discussing - but while we're talking basic strategy, how about city specialization? I've read the strategy guides, and the articles in the war academy, etc. and still can't quite grasp the whole commerce-science-etc specializing of my cities. I recently (as in, last game!) tried a GP factory, and was shocked at how many more GP I got, and how well that worked, so now I'm wondering if I'm missing out just as much by not specializing commerce, science, and production cities... I just can't get away from the thought that my cities should be able to produce all 3! Any thoughts on how I can experiment, and see if I can change my mind on this?

Or, maybe, to help me grasp the idea of how to go about it, does anyone have a screen shot of a typical specialized city for commerce or science or production? (The GP farm I've figured out; lots of grassland to grow specialists and then switch your specialists depending on what kind of GP you need...)

Sorry - I'm hoping this isn't too much of a thread-jack, as we're discussing basic strategies here...

I don't have any details to hand but a few rough points.

Production cities:

Don't build anything in these city that doesn't increase the city's hammer output - buildings that increase hammer output, happiness and health - and the quality of units produced - barracks and stables. Develope the tile improvements in the city's fat cross to maximise hammer output.

Commerce (science/gold/culture) cities:

Since science, gold, and culture are all controlled by commerce you want to build buildings and tile improvements for maximising commerce output and increasing the science/gold/culture ouput.

But that can still be inefficient. Personally, I like to dedicate my great people cities to one aspect of the economy so that the slider doesn't have to split my commerce three ways. It also means that my commerce cities don't have to build one type of multiplier building.

Say, for example, I'm going for merchants in my great people farms. The merchants (and great merchants) mean that I'll be able to keep the gold slider very low - hopefully at zero. This means that the commerce cities will produce very little gold, so I'll build no banks, markets, or grocers in my commerce cities (unless I need health or happiness). Similarly, my great people farms will have banks, etc. but won't have libraries or universities. The free time created by building less buildings can go to building science and gold in the appropriate cities.

I found my capital, produce a warrior or two (or scout if I have the tech) and simply explore while the city grows. As soon as the pop hits 3 I build a worker, then immediately after I go for a settler and find the nearest decent spot for city number 2.

I understand from these forums that worker prioritised over settler is generally the way to go, but am I doing it too soon? Should I wait for the city to max out first (i.e. when happy citizens = sad)? Is this too soon to start expansion?

It depends on the terrain and techs available. You don't build a worker unless that worker can actually improve a tile. Try to go for techs that help your workers build those needed improvements because an unimproved tile around your capitol is a real waste.
I usually let my capitol grow to size 3 too before building a worker or a settler but it all depends on the terrain/techs.

When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

I rarely build monuments in Bts. A state religion or leader trait can be enough to give that first pop. I usually go for barracks or units in my second city. After size 3/4 I build another settler/workers in this city.

On the tech tree, no matter which civ I pick, I always beeline for monotheism, hopefully picking up hinduism on route. After that I don't have any real plan. Obviously I want alphabet asap, but BW, AH, and IW normally distract me enough so that I'm getting alphabet sometime just before 1 AD.
I actually never beeline for monotheism. If I have Mysticism I may consider going for Buddhism or Hinduism and if I fail that then going for Monotheism but never beeline to it. Going for a religion is mostly not my main objective in Bts. As far as I know it only starts bringing in money when you have the Holy Shrine and that takes a Great Prophet. Sometimes it's better to let others found religions and you conquering those holy cities.
Besides, do you have the resources and (peace)time to build and spread the religion? Building a missionary means not building a swordsman. On noble and below, you can easily get away with this, but not on Prince, Monarch or higher.


Workers. I've gotten lazy. In the early versions of civ you had to do everything yourself, but as soon as that automatic option became available (civ 3 I think?) I took it and have become dependant on it. I never really had an issue with it until I started paying attention to them in BTS. Sometimes they rip up improvements they have literally just laid down, replace them with something else, immediately rip them up again and lay down the original imrprovement. This only seems to happen late in the game but still, by automating my workers I've not been using cottage ecomony, which I want to and I'm probably missing out on one or two other things as well.

NEVER automate workers.

Religion. Even if I get Hinduism and Judaism (about 90% of the time vs the AI) I usually also want more. To do this I will build the oracle and take Code of Laws as my free tech. Also with the oracle I get my points towards a great prophet and I'll lightbulb my first one to get theology. I've found this does not work on any level higher than prince, and that I'm lucky to even found a religion on monarch. The reason I do this is for the extra research from multiple monasteries (is the 10% cumulative?) and the massive amounts of culture these generate.

Founding more than one religion is totally useless. You rarely have time to spread one religion in the beginning of a game, let alone more religions. Besides, more than once founding a second religion means that that second religion spreads further and faster than your first because that second holy city is closer to your neighbours borders. It's not much fun seeing your allies switching religion on you one by one.

I found my capital, produce a warrior or two (or scout if I have the tech) and simply explore while the city grows. As soon as the pop hits 3 I build a worker, then immediately after I go for a settler and find the nearest decent spot for city number 2.

That's already too late for the worker. Except for a couple of specific starting conditions, it's best to build a worker from turn 1. You'll max out your city a lot faster if you have a worker to improve the surrounding terrain, and you'll get a settler out a lot faster if you can chop forest with your worker.

When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

The monument is often a sound start for your second city (unless you're either creative, or all the good tiles are adjacent to the city). The barracks is a bit dubious unless you're going for an early rush against a neighbouring civ. It isn't really necessary to have highly promoted archers just for escort and anti barbarian duty - they'll promote easily enough doing that anyway. I'm probably suggest anoher worker is a higher priority, or maybe axes if you're going for a rush attack.

On the tech tree, no matter which civ I pick, I always beeline for monotheism, hopefully picking up hinduism on route. After that I don't have any real plan. Obviously I want alphabet asap, but BW, AH, and IW normally distract me enough so that I'm getting alphabet sometime just before 1 AD.

Reasonably OK, assuming you get a religion (which you probably will at Prince). Focus on whichever techs you need to improve your resources nearby. If BW reveals copper, iron working can be left for a bit (unless playing as Rome).

So to what extent, if any, should you automate?

The only time I would ever consider automating is if all that's left to improve is railways to every tile (and I've already got all the important rails built). Other than that, don't automate.

Religion. Even if I get Hinduism and Judaism (about 90% of the time vs the AI) I usually also want more. To do this I will build the oracle and take Code of Laws as my free tech. Also with the oracle I get my points towards a great prophet and I'll lightbulb my first one to get theology. I've found this does not work on any level higher than prince, and that I'm lucky to even found a religion on monarch. The reason I do this is for the extra research from multiple monasteries (is the 10% cumulative?) and the massive amounts of culture these generate.

Religions rapidly become a case of diminishing returns. You cna only run one as state religion, and if you found two you will frequently end up with a mish mash of cities with different religions, requiring manual spread to be most useful. Trying to found more than two I consider to be largely a waste of time, and I'll usually settle for one.

The 10% from monasteries does stack, but you can get foreign religions spread to you easily enough, and remember that this bonus is lost in the mid game (Scientific Method).

[B]When the second city is up and running I'll normally build a monument, probably followed by a barracks which will produce some archers (I usually leave the cities with warriors or even undefended up to this point) for both my cities and one extra for a new settler, which is next to be produced.

I'll second what was mentioned about the Monument, it's not necessary unless you're trying to get a specific resource. And not at all if you're a Creative civ. And Barracks are debatable that early as well. By the time you get your third city up, you'll be getting visits from the Barbarians, so you need to prepare for them. I'd start building Archers without a Barracks and let the Barbs give them the experience you're after. Stick them in the Hills around the outskirts of your empire, with at least two in each city, and it won't be long before they're working on their 3rd promotion compliments of the Barbs. Once you get another city up that can pick up the Archer building duties, then you might think about a Barracks, but not until then.