Welcome to my fifth installment of a Role-Platy Challenge for BTS. Well, let's say 5B as the first attempt at this RPC resulted in a barbarian uprising wiping out the Arabs. The gods have chosen to reincarnate Saladin and give him one more chance to prove his worth. Here we go.

I think these challenges are helpful as they come from and average to good BTS player and on marathon speed. They have each tended to foucus on a certain type of play style that may or may not be "usual" and offer a different angle on the game as well as using certain rules/constraints to make the game more interesting. They have also been one of the few games that are walked through on marathon speed.

All input and suggestions are encouraged, please feel free to comment on any aspect.

The previous 4 games were

The Might Kahn; We got a conquest win using a scorched earth/raze economy/game

Seafaring Victoria: Where we woin a space race victory running an exclusive trade route economy on a water heavy board with no cottage building or running specialists in non-GP farm cities

Chivalrous Washington: Where we attempted to get a diplomatic win while keeping 5 lady AIs happy and protect them from 3 male rouges which ended in a draw (we built the UN but did not get enough votes.

Bismark the Builder: Where the mighty industrious Germans controlled every world wonder at the end of the game. This game used OBSOLETE wonderspam/settled GPs in Berlin and got us a Diplomatic UN win!


The current game is HOLY SAL!!

We will attempt to run a religious economy, while trying to maintain a peaceful and harmoneous world under religious guidance.

Poor Saladin, he is one of those leaders that noone likes and noone respects much. I also have seen that many posters really don't promote religions and shrines much. Bah, I think they are still one of the best ways to run a civilization. Also Sal is protective, probably one of teh most hated traits, but I think it has it's uses, especially for Sal. The protector of the faith. His UB is pretty powerful, and combo of the Egyptian Obelisk and the extra culture of the Incan terrace. The UU offers additonal withdrawal chance and does not require resources. Not a big deal unless you ar emissing horses and/or iron!!!

So the rules of this challenge

1) Sal must try to found as many religions as possible, and must use the Great Prophets for shrines with the exception of bulbing theology. We will try to favor the religion techs as mush as possible.
2) Only Priest specialists may be run.
3) Sal must have a state religion throughout the game. Any civic except Free Religion is in play.
4) Sal is a spiritual man and prefers peaceful coexistence with others. He is also very tolerant of other religions, but not tolerant of Blasphemers who have no state religion. Therefore, he can only open borders and trade with those AIs that have a state religion. If an AI switches to FR, he must close borders.
5) SAL will NOT declare war on any civilization outside his control but can certainly defends his people. Once at war he can attack the AI (we ar enot repeating Washingtons game here).
6) We will make every attempt to build the religious wonders for a true religious economy. AP, Ankot Wat, University of Sankore, Spial Minerat, Sisten Chapel.
7) Any non-prophet GP must be used for GAs.


The map is normal size Big/little, all random
Difficulty is Monarch
Victory Conditions are all enabled however

Sal can only obatin one of three
A) Culture
B) Diplomatic (AP is OK as long as it is not a cheap win, must have at least 75% of the world cities with it)
C) Space. Sal can certainly bring the good word (or words) to other planets, no problem.

Here's the start

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/HolySalStart0001.jpg

Less food for sure but forrests aplenty for chopping.

What are the suggestions here?

Normally I would send the warrior east and move the settler to the tile north of the corn to maximize land tiles. However, that is one turn less to work polytheism and may cost us the religion.

Not a straight foreard one this time.

Hmm...that's a tough choice. I guess it boils down to would we be devastated if we didn't get polytheism? Moving it north of the corn would be a much better spot. If we miss poly, could we make Sal a Jew? Would he really mind?

Moving it north of the corn would be a much better spot.

Why exactly is there a beeter spot ?

We sit on a Plains Hill now - +1 Produciton for the capital (Or is it just Grass ? Blue Marble sometimes makes hard to tell...). That's great. It looks like to the east there are some Coast tiles as well - so moving will reduce the amount of water tiles, but not that much.

Also, moving north might give us Tundra in the BFC. Prefer coast to tundra. We will be able to lighthouse and fishing should be high on the list to make use of crabs.

It looks like a grass hill. Actually, I'm not sure that moving is a good idea since there may well be more coastal resources in that fog to the west.

I"d settle in place, you can't pass up the extra production from a hill top, and your on a river...Levies man.

you gain a coastal square directly south, as has been noted, other sea food maybe in the fog.

Lighthouse, =2 f, 2 C, 0 h, improves crabs by +2, settle in place

looks like a grassland hill, you just lose the forest and gain no production. i'd consider 1 NE if it's fresh water. you gain a hill and a ton of cottage land, assuming 3E isn't desert.

The spot 1 NE is also on the river. The settler is on a grass hill, so no bonus for settling there. I would move the warrior NE as that is onto a hill. I would settle in place.

Oh. Juast grassland... No +1 then:cry: Still in place looks not that bad, unless the warrior reveals something new.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll start it tonight. Some comments and my thinking

1) Settler is currently on a grassland hill. Tile north of corn has access to fresh water.
2) The corn is 3 food, 1 commerce which helps to found the relgion. IN the first attempt we founded hinduism starting with no commerce tile although only one AI started with mysticism besides us.
3) We may or may not get another seafood tile. Only 2 resources so far but LOTS of trees.
4) Moving the warrior is key as I need to see what else is arround. I say 1 tile north, and should answer if it's worth settling above the corn. If there is a second commerce tile, I think we can sacrifice the lost turn.

Assuming we pop no techs and find no additional resources I think the tech order should be polytheism/fishing/hunting/archery/Agriculture. Sal will need some protective VERY early, but wouldwe enough time to bump agriculture up? After the first five techs I am willing to attempt masonry and monotheism.

Build order, I am a fan of worker first but this may be one of those exceptions. We want early pop growth so we can work a second commerce tile to speed polytheism along. Also not much for the worker to do until agriculture, and roads to nowhere are going to get old.

On the other hand we have lot's of forrests for chopping so delaying mining/BW will delay our expansion.

We are faced with the biggest problem of SAL, very slow early growth expansion.

The problem of lack of expansion is mediated by the fact that you don't need to expand far and wide to meet your goals. Cultural victory you only need 9 cities (modified by map/etc.). Diplo/space are helped along by a larger empire, but it isn't necessary.

Normally I would say you could bust out with your UU as well, but if you are playing peacefully then I will just say that at the least you can defend yourself with your UU should you lack for military resources.

The problem of lack of expansion is mediated by the fact that you don't need to expand far and wide to meet your goals. Cultural victory you only need 9 cities (modified by map/etc.). Diplo/space are helped along by a larger empire, but it isn't necessary.

Normally I would say you could bust out with your UU as well, but if you are playing peacefully then I will just say that at the least you can defend yourself with your UU should you lack for military resources.

Pretty close to what I was thinking. The availablilty of resources will determine if we have to beeline guilds or not.

Another option I have considered is trying the Fuedalism slingshot from the oracle. I would need priesthood and monarchy I believe. However, if I get MC that's one step closer to machinery and thus guilds.

The Reincarnation of HOLY SAL!: Part I

As the holy pilgrim Saladin wanders across the lands he decides to settle along the river across from the sacred corn . His people gather arround the newly named citty Mecca, Oh Holy one what shall we do now, we are hungry and tired and need shelter. Saladin looks across the water' "Time for that later, but we must bow our heads in reflection and thank the gods for this magnificent place". The Arabs begin their mass prayer....


So we settle in place. Not much excitement except a deer on tundra (3 food, 1 hammer phooey). We can work the corn for 1 commerce, and once we settle

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0001.jpg

and find another (and different) seafood, plus silk in the BFC. A second Commerce. We start teching polytheism. In 3610 Buddhism is founded, we also meet our first AI

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0002.jpg

The pacifist on my southern border. Not too bad there but a competitor in our faith collection. He also DID NOT found Buddhism.

We also got one of those random events with subject tests for extra health.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0003.jpg

Normally I will take it this early, but every turn is essential for Saladin at the beginning and I want full use of the population this early.

We meet another AI.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0004.jpg

Hmmm... Cyrus was always a pushover and easy to get along with in Vanilla and Warlords. But my experience in BTS is he is agressive, especially late in the game. We shall see.

And Finally

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0005.jpg

We got our early religion.

Our warrior went exploring and got experience, a scout, a map, and a free tech

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0006.jpg

OK, we got a priesthood for free and a head start on the oracle.

TEchwise we went: Ploytheism/Fishing/Hunting/Archery/Masonry/Monotheism

First we met two more AIs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0007.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0008.jpg

Greta, two agressive AIs, and one a nutjob as well as a different religion. Guess we better be heading towards longbows and camel archers sooner than later.

We also are on a penninsule and in rather danger of being cut off

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0009.jpg

We love our peaceful neighbor, but not that much

Build order for the city went warrior/warrior/warrior/workboat/workboat/worker/archer/settler

and made a pilgrimage to Medina

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0011.jpg

1 tile off the coast, most of the time a bad moove, but we have the extra food, alot of hills (good production city here), and giving us a chance to make a fair land grab.

we soon after get...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0010.jpg

A second religion!!!! And another holy city, this time in Medina.

The larger view of the land

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIA0012.jpg

Monty is to the Northwest and Hammarabi is Southwest.

So that is where I saved.

I will convert to Judaism to speed up the cultural border push for Medina. I started on AH but that can be changed.

So where do we go from here?

1) Oracle: DO we commit MEcca to the oracle and stay at 2 cities for a while, or do we make a push and settle along the west coast for a nice riverside city? And what do we take with the oracle? We can manually tech monarchy and slingshot to Fuedalism, but if we lose the oracle it is a waster as we have enough happiness for now. If we tech writing we can take theology with the oracle, founding another religion.
2) Tech order: We need alot at this point. AH can get us food for MEdina as well as production. We also need Mining and BW. Also writing for the Madrassa'a but we sort of need some production to build the things.


Looking for any suggestions.

I'm tempted to say you ought to go for the 'mids soon. You just grabbed stone, and 'mids works great with Sal's priest-based specialist economy. +3 beakers and +1 hammers? That's a sweet specialist; gives you 3 beakers, 2 hammers, 1 gold, and culture with SC. Have one city work on rexing and the other on 'mids-the cash priests give you will help offset expansion a little more than scientists would have, so you can expand a bit more than normally. Admittedly, the two big wonders (Oracle + 'Mids) will set back your REX a bit, but *shrug* that's how things go.

1 tile off the coast, most of the time a bad moove, but we have the extra food, alot of hills (good production city here), and giving us a chance to make a fair land grab.

Ok, I'm a noble player and am still learning, so I want to understand your thinking in not placing the city one west. I know I would have blindly put the city on the coast. I would put up with the 2 ocean squares in exchange for the extra 6 food from the coastal and lake tiles once you build a lighthouse. If it's going to be a production city, you gain the ability to crank out navel units. And I think giving up the hill defence bonus would be made up by gaining the hill mine that you would otherwise not be able to work. Then there is all the coast-dependent builings...harbor, lighthouse, customs house, etc.

That said, I know you are a better player than I am based on what I see here, so I think there is something I am missing.

Simple, Access to fresh water while keeping stone in the BFC. I can built 5 farms (need civil service to chain them), and with the cows and seafood this should be a good sized production city. It is also on a hill and since I am committed to a peaceful kingdom with nutty Monty to my west, I expect the city to be assaulted numerous times (or at least it could be). Also it is difficult for Gahndi to slip another city to my east, and impossible for him to put it on the lake.

In retrospect fresh water may not have been a concern as I could have built a harbor to recoup to lost health.

I debated on this quite a bit before settling. What sold me most was the neighbors and the hill defense. May be a moot point is someone settles the west river before me, but there is a very decent chance that this city is my southern fronteir.

The Reincarnation of HOLY SAL!:: Part II

The holy one looks across the blessed ARab realm, "the god's have favored us". As he prays to the Hindu god, and the Jewish god, and the Christian god, and the confuscian god. Saladin shakes his head and mutters under his breathe, "how many more are there". He stands atop the hill in Medina and summons his citizans, "We must have priests here to properly honor our many god's, we must send missionaries to convert our neighbors, we must build a great pyramid to point up to the heavens!" as he turns away he stops and says one more thing, "Oh yes, we must build a new palace for me to reside in and properly guide our blessed people." The crowd cheers!!!

Well a very good round I think, with few problems. Early on I forgot to take few interesting screenshots, you must forgive me (I am noway as good as Sis in this).

First we meet our next neighbor, and boy am I surprised.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0000.jpg

Well that is odd, last round I beat her to Hinduisma and MOnty beat her to Buddhism. Plus I was still able to beat her to judaism and, wait we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Build in Mecca went archer/archer/workboat (for medina)/archer/settler (for the river area)/oracle.

Techwise we went AH/Mining/BW/writing/sailing/CoL

First of all, no horses. Second, copper and yes there

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0001.jpg

In a good spot too. That's a nice coast city over there, we que up another settler in medina.

So I missed the screenshots here, but we built the oracle. I actually had to slow it down a little so we could time it with writing because we founded theology with it. Yes, we founded christianity, in the city of Damscus. REal spread out, we converted to christianity to pop borders, then switched to judaism which appears to be the religion of chpoice for alot of our rivals.

At the advice of Melon head and since we have stone I proceeded to build the pyramids in Medina. Representation with those priests is too much to pass up. Soon after (little chopping required)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0004.jpg

We convert to representation and start building temples and madrassas.

We also meet the last AI

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0002.jpg

The anti-religion communist. Well, at teh save point we has still not converted to anything and thus no open borders.

We make trades and give into some demands

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0003.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0008.jpg

We had also traded Gahndi meditation and montheism for iron working.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0009.jpg

And out first Great person was, and Great Engineer. Bah, but not really that bad. We use it for

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0005.jpg

And after elections

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0007.jpg

So Monty has at least one city with Judaism. Good, we can try and use that AP to stop future wars from him against us.

Well, I assume war will be on the horizon, bith Isabella and Monty are forming a Buddhist block. Hammarabi, Cyrus, and Gahndi (I traded meditiation for him to convert) are forming a Judaist block. Let's see how that goes.

One more thing, IW showed us

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0006.jpg

Damned inconventient spot. Well, we need a poor city there and might as well claim as many fur tiles as we can get. THe Iron hammers with build us a lighthouse, then we can go from there.

Also all four of our cities has a wall, an archer, some axes and spears. Decent enough protection.

We also teched CoL (I was sure we would lose this to Isabella, but no) which founded confuscianism, in the same city as the Jewish Holy City. Guess that will be the Wall street city.

Our civics are Representation/Caste system/Organized Religion although OR may change soon.

AT this point I saved, while starting to tech Aesthetics.

The religion status

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0010.jpg

Gotta beef up the Judaist cities.

Doing decently in tech.

and the 4 cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0012.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0013.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0014.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIB0015.jpg

So here we are.

Here a resome of my plans/observations

1) We have 2 decent production cities WITHOUT the capital. Mecca looks to be our GP farms, we cna add some cottages. Damascus is a goos commerce city.

2) Tech path Aesthetics/Literature/Drama/Music/Philosophy/Monarchy/Fuedalsim/Paper. I am pretty sure we can get Monarchy from atrade. eventually. We want paper and Philosophy for teh university of Sankore and Ankor Wat, plus Sisten Chapel. Lot's to do.

3) Looks liek we should be able to get Philosophy and Divine Right unless some AI bulbs it.

4) Concerned very much about Buddhist Isabella and Monty breaking the peace. Perhaps we shoudl rpioritize Fuedalism a bit more.

5) No horses means no chariots or HA but we get the UU. We had better get rifling sooner than later. Also, the liberalism race. I am seriously considering taking divine right with it, trade it arround a bit and see what I get, plus it gets us a head start on the Spiral Minerat. Since we have stone and there are no industrious AIs, I see little problem there.

6) We need to figure out how and where to expands. Also need to explore a bit which I am usually very slow on. We will need more cities, eventually 4 more after the iron city.

Looking for any and all suggestions.

ALOT to be doing!!!

Sorry this post is a little late,I was curious about that random event. I can't remember what the benefits were, but they seemed pretty good when I got it. I know it would slow down your growth for a bit, but it seemed like the benfits might have been worth it.

Love your series by the way, really interesting stuff

Thanks for following the series King,

The random event would have given us +2 heralth (or a 90% chance) at the probable cost of -2 unhappy. Most AIs I would accept it and let the capital slow a little, likely the unhappy's would be gone near the limit anyway. Sal is different as we are going down the religous route and he starts off with no food and far away from the early military techs.

Well played so far. Indeed, lots to do. Any chance of generating a GS for phil? I would suggest a different tech off liberalism if you get it first. You could always bulb most of DR with a GP unless you are against bulbing? Angkor Wat I think has the most synergy with Saladin out of everyone as he can run more priests than anyone.

Nice game so far.

Well played so far. Indeed, lots to do. Any chance of generating a GS for phil? I would suggest a different tech off liberalism if you get it first. You could always bulb most of DR with a GP unless you are against bulbing? Angkor Wat I think has the most synergy with Saladin out of everyone as he can run more priests than anyone.

Nice game so far.

Thanks Futurehermit.

I considered the scientist exception for PHil bulb, but thought I might contaminate the GP pool once the GS popped. SO I have to say no, I'll just have to tech it out via beakers/turn.

After reconsidering, I like your suggestion of using a GP to bulb DR. I origionally expected to use a GP to bulb theology, but the oracle took care of that.

Ankor Wat is the priority, and should be easy with stone. I may pop another GE at some point which I would likely use for Ankor or more likely the sistene chapel, which the AIs tend to favor.

Sounds good to me

I'm not sure why you settled Medina where you did.

1. Made all of those coastal tiles nearly worthless.
2. Sacrificed a 3 food lake tile.
3. Sacrificed sea-based trade route bonuses (both to your commerce AND your religion)
4. Sacrificed the grassland hill which could have been used to grab more land.

In my opinion, placing it 1SW may have been better, it would've also avoided that desert tile. but I suspect you had some reason for it. But overall, a nice game so far. I'm curious to see what you're going to do... also, looking forward to the Monty the Mad Scientist RPC if you're still planning on doing it!

I'm not sure why you settled Medina where you did.

1. Made all of those coastal tiles nearly worthless.
2. Sacrificed a 3 food lake tile.
3. Sacrificed sea-based trade route bonuses (both to your commerce AND your religion)
4. Sacrificed the grassland hill which could have been used to grab more land.

In my opinion, placing it 1SW may have been better, it would've also avoided that desert tile. but I suspect you had some reason for it. But overall, a nice game so far. I'm curious to see what you're going to do... also, looking forward to the Monty the Mad Scientist RPC if you're still planning on doing it!

Sometimes in retrospect something seams unwise. My chief concern was defending the city versus Monty and that was the best way to do it while maintaining the three resources. At the time it made sense, but now I wish I had settled it differently as you and an earlier poster inquired. Hey, we all make our mistakes;)

What I planning to do long range is get all the religions (except Buddhism) and shrines and see where that get's us in the religious economy. Looking to get a religious block against the Monty/Isabella Buddhist block. Try to leverage the AP as much as I can, and perhaps use spies to force religion and civic changes. I also hope to get all teh religion associated wonders to demonstrate how powerful that can be, we already have teh AP and it's +2 hammers per religious building.

Monty the Mad Scientists is still the next scheduled RPC. That will take mor eof my time than HOLY SAL as I expect some serious war-mongering there. In fact, MONTY demands it! Plenty of pillaging, razing, city capturing, vassaling, and of course human sacrifice on the alters!

The reincarnation of Holy Sal! Part III

The Holy one approaches the hill to address the Arab people. There are grumbling amongst the peopl, calling for action against thei vile Spanish, chinese and Aztecs. "All, we must show love to those who follow a different faith from us." But the attacked us, someone screams from the crowd. Saladin calms the mob, "Yes but we achieved peace, and completed out quest of finding all the gods. We have also contructed great buildings to honor the gods". As Saladin leaves says to his most loyal followers, we must begin building more of an army, and settle more cities. We have more gold than we can spend. "Some of our neighbors do believe in the ways of peace and we must defend our people. And the bald one to our south, he is more of nussaince than those who attack us."

HOLY SANDSTORM, that is all I can say. This peaceful game is quite challenging with those nutcases arround me. We were declared on numerous times and gave away techs for peace. The AP helped us once, but not in another more critical time. WE did manage to found the last 2 religions, built some shrines, further spread our Judaist faith, and built some of those religious wonders.

First of all we make a trade with Hammarabi

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0000.jpg

Our tech path was Math/Aesthetics/Drama/Lit/Phil/DR/Paper

The city of MEcca

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0002.jpg

Making some good use opf the priests.

We pop the first of our three Prophets and use it to
build

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0003.jpg

Let the church coffers start overflowing!!!


Then problem #1

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0005.jpg

We kill a swordsman and chariot and get the AP to declare peace. No sweat here.


And make a decent rade with Cyrus

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0006.jpg


At this point ISabella, Montezume and Mao declare war on me, Yikes

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0009.jpg

Isabella sends a pretty decent stack against damascus, basiucally suiciding about 10 units while I lost none. Never saw An Aztec unit mostly because


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0010.jpg

Now this really felt wrong as we are supposed to be peaceful. But I am allowed to defend the Arabs as I see fit and this was really the only way.

We also teched Philosophy and founded Taoism, again in Mecca (triple holy city) and set to work on Ankot Wat

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0012.jpg


And very soon after

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0013.jpg

NBow during this time I tried to get everyone off my back through the AP but Monty said "never" and surprising Gahndi said NO!!!! That little, we soory, my esteemed Jewish neighbor. I ended up giving Aesthetics or CoL for peace with everyone, THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!


We made a few more trades

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0014.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0015.jpg

And if things were not interesting enough, Hammarabi got himself a colony

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0016.jpg


We got a third Prophet which we built the Confiscian Shrine (all in Mecca) and built

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0017.jpg

At this point we are getting a 24 gold profit running 100% science slider.


After a rather aggrevating game so far, I saved it and called it a night. I feel like this game is running terribly although we are doing pretty well. Getting the religions and wonders we want. Gahndi has turned into a decent buffer although there are other issue there I will discuss in the recap post.

We have MC now and teching towards Machinery. Crossbows and longbows, and lot's of them (let the church pay for it's own protection). We have the NE in Medina and will be swimming in prophets, shrining Toaism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam we hope. That is Four more prophets. We are also doing very well in production. We need some more cities and probably looking overseas for that, if any land is left. We can also wait until Monty declares war on us again and go after him, although he is doing well in tech. I still have alot of undeveloped land, and cottages are pretty abysmal.

Any advice is appreciated, but I am thinking MILITARY. Also education which will take a while to tech due to no GS to bulb it along.

PS: All this peace has caused me to start an off-line Kublai Kahn military game.

The Reincarnation of HOLY SAL!: Part III continued

Here is the status of our kingdom

The map and view of the western regions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0018.jpg

Doing better than it feels. One more coastal city SE or Medina to claim silk and fish, otherwise we are set.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0019.jpg

Culture problems here. Gahndi dropped a culture bomb here stealing my pigs and two cottages. ARGHHHH, and nothing to do.

Relations

EDIT: Deleted old outdated Diplomacy screenshot. We are currently NOT at war.

Power (yikes)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0020.jpg

Demographics. Got money and hammers, low military

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0021.jpg

Doing well in tech

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0022.jpg

Mecca, lot's of priests

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0024.jpg

And Medina, lot's of gold

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0025.jpg

And victory screen

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIC0026.jpg

Given the production is pretty good in those cities, I think we can think about a cultural victory. Definitely a run at education and liberalism for minimally free speech.

:rotfl:

Don't give up on this game it is hilarious so far. Would love to see a cultural victory. And frankly a peaceful game where everyone does nothing would be boring. Trying to be peaceful with a bunch of nutjobs all over you is freakin' funny stuff (maybe not to play, but to read it is fun times!)

:thumbsup:

:rotfl:

Don't give up on this game it is hilarious so far. Would love to see a cultural victory. And frankly a peaceful game where everyone does nothing would be boring. Trying to be peaceful with a bunch of nutjobs all over you is freakin' funny stuff (maybe not to play, but to read it is fun times!)

:thumbsup:

I'll remember that when I get attacked by Monty and Issy, "Ah, but FutureHermit will be amused"!!

We are Civfanatics so I will play the game out, for better or worse.

Haha! Exactly ;)

Seriously though, this game has a lot of selling points in terms of diplomacy, etc. Most people accuse cultural games of being boring--just click end turn a million times. This game has the possibility of showcasing just the opposite :)

The Reincarnation of HOLY SAL!: Part IV

Saladin approaches the holy, holy holy mountain in Mecca to address his people. "The way of peace has worked for us, our borders are save and those who attacked us are bust elsewhere". All teh while Saladin thinks to himself, "and the fact our sourthern neighbor has blocked all access to us".

Well this round has proceeded much better. No wars, at least against us. We built some more shrines, got a key wonder very late, First to liberalism, built up a fairly large army, and got a defensive pact to boot by the end.

So here we go

First of all we refure this from Issy

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0000.jpg

we are no ptsy anymore, let her send an army. Wait a minute, there is no land access to us. You see, when Gahndi dropped that culture bomb, he sealed teh western border off from the AI. SInce all the non-Judaist block hates him, they have no open borders, thus we were insulated the entire round from war because of this. Way to go Mahatma!!!!

We also get an AP vote

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0001.jpg

Well isn't that interesting!!! To be honest I was tempted to try the cheap diplo win, but the rules are the rules and Judaism is not 75%. SO I settled for giving the city to Gahndi. and...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0002.jpg

It passed!!! And Isabell lost he only Jewish city, no AP diplo anymore but we can boss her arround a bit now.

Another GP, andother shrine

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0003.jpg

And we popped another "religious wonder"

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0004.jpg

Another nice tech from Divine Right

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0005.jpg

And anotehr trade from the Mahatma

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0006.jpg

Most of the world is happy to be at war with each other

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0008.jpg

Some more trades with Hammarabi

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0009.jpg

Gahndi, Hammarabi, and Cyrus have really turned out to be good friends here and no real loss of relations because of refusal to go to war.

Another AP vote

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0012.jpg

We all decided we didn't want to trade with Issy anymore!!!

We also meet another colony, another ever popular one

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0014.jpg

We hit liberalism and we took Nationalism, not for the Taj or nationalism civic, but the hermatage.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0015.jpg

And we got another shrine

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0016.jpg

We only need 1 more, church of the nativity.

I save d at this point and would like some suggestions on a tech path, but first our standings

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0017.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0018.jpg

Note the defensive pact with Cyrus.

And the cities, note we only have 7 and likely to stay that way

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIID0019.jpg

Now where do we go from here

1) Military and go towards rifling
2) economics for the free GM and a GA.
3) Constitution and democracy.

I plan to go down the culture path, so I plan NOT to take scientific method and lose all those monestaries. How far should I tech before switching the culture up? Still have quite a bit to build as far as catherdrals and supporting temples, plus we need ALOT of camel archers and eventual rifles to deter attack.

This is by far the most interesting game I've read on these forums in a long time. 5 stars! :king:

I think getting the cultural corporations should be the long-term plan. They should help cement the cultural victory for you. Amazing, top-tier diplomacy demonstrated in this game!!

Rifling would secure your defenses, but of the three you mention I think #3 is more appealing. Keep using diplomacy as your best defence. Planning out the corporations will be the key to victory imo.

Good job!

Indeed interesting game. I expected a bit more missionary spamming. Maybe you can even convert Monty to get one psycho of your back. And definitely get a missionary to Ceasar. Another follower of Judaism. But why the hell Theocracy with all the buildings being build? I would switch immediately to organized again. There is only 1 unit being build so that is 6 cities that can benefit from the building bonus.

This is by far the most interesting game I've read on these forums in a long time. 5 stars! :king:

I think getting the cultural corporations should be the long-term plan. They should help cement the cultural victory for you. Amazing, top-tier diplomacy demonstrated in this game!!

Rifling would secure your defenses, but of the three you mention I think #3 is more appealing. Keep using diplomacy as your best defence. Planning out the corporations will be the key to victory imo.

Good job!

This is just plain funny, this is the one game of the 5 RPCs I did where I feel rather out of control (even more than Washington and his women)!!! But I guess that means you are correct, my survival depends on diplomacy, as well as the protection and military might of the game's pacifist!!!

I agree on constitution/democracy, because I really need emancipation to start moving on building a decent cottage system in Mecca and Medina. Bagdad is a little tougher and I will probably build the Hermitage there. Also once we get the last shrine I am willing to start running some artist specialists

Regarding the culture corps. Sid's requires medicine which means scientific method which kills the monestaries. We have 6 religions thus 6 monestaries in each city, plus and extra +5 culture, +2 gold, +2 beakers per Jewish monestary. That's +15 culture base from monestaries alone. I have limited seafood resources and less to trade so Sid's will probably never match the lost culture, nor the lost 60% science from monestaries. Combustion leads to creative constructions which would get us and extra 12 culture.

How far can I get down the military tree without
scientific method? I am thinking infantry, cannons, destroyers.

Indeed interesting game. I expected a bit more missionary spamming. Maybe you can even convert Monty to get one psycho of your back. And definitely get a missionary to Ceasar. Another follower of Judaism. But why the hell Theocracy with all the buildings being build? I would switch immediately to organized again. There is only 1 unit being build so that is 6 cities that can benefit from the building bonus.

I have been missionary spamming as much as I can, just not reporting. I am limited a bit because
1) All my allies have predominantly jewish cities except Hammarabi who is fairly far away. With all the wars, I do not want any AIs to declare war on me just to take out a missionary (That may be what triggered Issy off the first time).
2) I am more limted in spreading my other religions as I do not want an ally adoption Taoism or Confuscianism.
3) I have a few cities and I need to balance missionaries, infrasctructure, military and wonders although the wonder era is at an end. I also need to start on the cathedrals so I will me more sporadically missionary spamming. We have a 40+ gold profit at 100% science, we do not need the gold.

Good point about Organized religion. I was thinking of spamming the UU for protection but I have stables so the extra +2 XP are insignificant. It would get me to 7 XP rather than 5 XP and closer to promotions in battle, but we are trying to avoid battle. Also, Issy loves theocracy and was trying to get her cautious and let her declare on someone else. Alal in all, I think OR is the way to go and will likely switch again. Hell, I am spiritual and can flip civics at will!!

Also once we get the last shrine I am willing to start running some artist specialists


I'm just a lurker. These boards get me through a good 30 minutes of my workday. THANKS!

Please, do not run artist specialists. This would violate your RPC rule number 2. I know all my culture victories are dependant on the artist spam, and it would be cool to see it done without them.

Thanks for the game.

I'm just a lurker. These boards get me through a good 30 minutes of my workday. THANKS!

Please, do not run artist specialists. This would violate your RPC rule number 2. I know all my culture victories are dependant on the artist spam, and it would be cool to see it done without them.

Thanks for the game.

Welcome to the boards and thanks for posting.

You are correct and Sal is a fairly noble guy, so I agree and will not run artists.:goodjob:

After being manhandled but the ladies in the Washington game, having to sail across the ocean to take out Protective Sitting Bull in the Bismark game, and no artists for a cultural victory in this game, I have come up with rule number one for the next RPC as Monty the MAD Scientist:
1) He cheats and can break any rule at any time!

:D

Pillage every cottage on the map. That way no one will be able to out-tech your hillbilly civ.

This is from another thread but one of the best I have read on these forums. It goes here because this shall be MONTY the MAD SCIENTIST's motto in the next RPC!

This is from another thread but one of the best I have read on these forums. It goes here because this shall be MONTY the MAD SCIENTIST's motto in the next RPC!

I assume that not building any cottages will also be one of your self imposed rules.

Anyway, congratulations for your threads, very refreshing to read. I am not so thrilled by optimized styles of play (sorry for the usual axe rushers). THIS is more fun.
BTW, wouldn't Rhyes´n´Fall mod better suit the RPG flavour of your games ?

I assume that not building any cottages will also be one of your self imposed rules.

Anyway, congratulations for your threads, very refreshing to read. I am not so thrilled by optimized styles of play (sorry for the usual axe rushers). THIS is more fun.
BTW, wouldn't Rhyes´n´Fall mod better suit the RPG flavour of your games ?

Thanks for the feedback. These RPCs are an enjoyable different angle on games for myself. I am a rather stright stategist in my off-line games, but enjoy the creative and informative RPCs. They all focus on some less popular "aspect or economy" with some situational aspect. Sometimes they seam to go their own route, Bismark turned into more of a war-monger game, and the current one more of an example of the uses of diplomacy. I consider these game the comic relief of walkthroughs:lol: .

To answer your questions, I view Monty as a MAd scientist who has a high opinion of himself, but also happens to be an idiot! SO he can see the benefit of running scientist specialists (who are basically doing his work, but he gets the credit) but cannot understand cottages and the potential but sees the results in other AIs. So he refuses to built them himself, but cannot stand other AIs having them so he has to destroy them. Different from the Victoria and Ghengis game where they well understood the value of such captured improvements.

Now for a dumb question on my part, what is the Rhyes n' fall mod? I have never tried any of the mod-packs and prefer to keep the game as it is. I think the walkthroughs are somewhat educational, as they go into less used strats, which is why I have kept them here rather than the stories and tales section.

. . . . I have come up with rule number one for the next RPC as Monty the MAD Scientist:
1) He cheats and can break any rule at any time!

:D

LOL! :lol: :crazyeye: :lol:

That's our Monty! Dude is freaky.

Ok, actually on-topic. You can probably afford to spam non-Jewish missionaries with reasonable safety. The AI does seem to be aware of religious diplomatic blocs. I've tried converting them away from a religion they didn't found in a few past games and on two occasions I can think of had made every city of an AI into my religion and they still wouldn't convert away from the religion of their ally. This would even happen if I had every city my religion and the AI's state religion wasn't in every city of his.

I'm not guaranteeing anything, obviously, but I'd say you have excellent odds that spamming out a few missionaries can be done safely. By safely I mean without seriously threatening your religious alliance.

As for having enough gold???? Phah! I say Phah again!

You're spiritual, you have the Pyramids, any time you ever, EVER, think you have more gold than you need switch to US for a few turns, crank up the culture slider to compensate for the lost happiness, and buy your buildings. You mentioned having to balance production in your cities, well, US with loads of gold can help with that balance. (add in OR for some real serious uses of excess gold)

-abs

"Oh, I'll second Futurehermit, very enjoyable game to read. Thanks for posting it."

LOL! :lol: :crazyeye: :lol:

That's our Monty! Dude is freaky.

Ok, actually on-topic. You can probably afford to spam non-Jewish missionaries with reasonable safety. The AI does seem to be aware of religious diplomatic blocs. I've tried converting them away from a religion they didn't found in a few past games and on two occasions I can think of had made every city of an AI into my religion and they still wouldn't convert away from the religion of their ally. This would even happen if I had every city my religion and the AI's state religion wasn't in every city of his.

I'm not guaranteeing anything, obviously, but I'd say you have excellent odds that spamming out a few missionaries can be done safely. By safely I mean without seriously threatening your religious alliance.

As for having enough gold???? Phah! I say Phah again!

You're spiritual, you have the Pyramids, any time you ever, EVER, think you have more gold than you need switch to US for a few turns, crank up the culture slider to compensate for the lost happiness, and buy your buildings. You mentioned having to balance production in your cities, well, US with loads of gold can help with that balance. (add in OR for some real serious uses of excess gold)

-abs

"Oh, I'll second Futurehermit, very enjoyable game to read. Thanks for posting it."

Good point on US, I think I'll do that to save time. I was saving the $$$ for upgrades but once I get grocers and banks even the upgrades will let me have excess gold arround.

Another favorable comment for the game? Ask the wife and kids who have been trying to calm me down after th Issy/Monty/Mao dogpile!!! One of the more difficult games as I am refrained from declaring war and taking out the obvious threats. The Washington game was different as I always knew war was coming given the leaders we chose. Maintaining peace is a hell of a lot harder than bashing heads, but apparently more entertaining :D

Ask the wife and kids who have been trying to calm me down after th Issy/Monty/Mao dogpile!!!

Yeah, I sympathize.

My wife was rolling her eyes at me yesterday. :lol:

I was all, "Gah! I hate Cyrus, I'm losing Janissaries like mad assaulting his castles now that he has muskets. And even after I take him down I need to rush to rifling since Hammurabi is still unconquered on my continent and already has muskets himself. Not too mention Freaky Yellow Martian Dude and his vassal Hattie on the other continent!" :mad: :mad: :mad: (I hate Suryavarman)

She was all like :rolleyes:

-abs

Now for a dumb question on my part, what is the Rhyes n' fall mod? I have never tried any of the mod-packs and prefer to keep the game as it is. I think the walkthroughs are somewhat educational, as they go into less used strats, which is why I have kept them here rather than the stories and tales section.

In Rhyes mod, you don´t have traits anymore,
neither do you choose your leader. (auto change through the game, for instance Louis/Napoleon/Charles for France)

the unique flavour of civ comes differently.
Start time (~3000BC for Egypt, ~1780AD for USA)
Start location (actual Earth with realistic ressource distribution)
an additional unique victory.
( ex for USA : secure 10 oil ressources, prevent other colonies to appear in North America at given dates.)
and an unique ability
( defeated units become workers when aztecs... )


There are scripted events...
city names depend on where you plant them, not in what order.

But IMO the beauty of this mod, is the stabilty system.
Hard to describe, but basically empires can go into total revolt (each city become independant but your capital) if you do silly things.
-overexpansion
-odd civics combinaison
-poor economy
-wars
- and more .... (very )


It´s not as open-ended a game as the default civ, but the strategies needed to compete (or even survive) are very refreshing and make you want to open an atlas or an encyclopedia.

You should try it !

Madscientist, I wanna play a mirror game of this one, but I'm not sure of something. Are you allowed to take over enemy cities if they declare war first? As in, defensive pacts, or just pissing Monty and taking over his cities...

Scientist, I wanna play a mirror game of this one, but I'm not sure of something. Are you allowed to take over enemy cities if they declare war first? As in, defensive pacts, or just pissing Monty and taking over his cities...

As pet this RPC rules, you may defend yourself and the faith. SO if Monty declares war, you can capture as many or as few of his cities as your like.

May they reap what they sow. :goodjob:

Quote:
Pillage every cottage on the map. That way no one will be able to out-tech your hillbilly civ.
This is from another thread but one of the best I have read on these forums. It goes here because this shall be MONTY the MAD SCIENTIST's motto in the next RPC!
__________________

Oooh hillbilly-monty! Can't wait....

BTW, you should edit the rules since you used a GE to rush a WW *wink*

And what was the point of going Caste System? You don't get unlimited Priests and that's all you can use. You're getting more expenses with no benefit at all.

BTW, you should edit the rules since you used a GE to rush a WW *wink*


Really? Did I miss this? I know he spoke about wanting to do this for AW, but I don't see a mention that he did use a GE there.

Really? Did I miss this? I know he spoke about wanting to do this for AW, but I don't see a mention that he did use a GE there.

Got a GE very early (before a prophet) because of the pyramids. I believe I used it on the AP.

For the record I altered the rules slightly over the course of the game (sue me!). Julius and Cyrus switched to FR but I kept open borders as they have been loyal friends (and frankly Monty and Isabella are enough entertainment). To compensate for this I will not tech scientific method.

I have stretched rules in the past I think, some rather unchivalrous bribing to DoW on a lady in the GW games, and Bismarks disregard of acquiring the Chinese corprate HQ (which he could not use anyway since I was in SP since communism). Consider them "guidelines"

An update is coming up once I deal with photobucket.

The Reincarnation of HOLY SAL!: Part V

Saladin shakes his head in discuss, "Why is there so much hate from these Buddhists". His generals council him to counter attack and end this threat, Saladin "No, we cna defend ourselves, let our people live in glory and peace. Arrange defenses and contatc our allies"..

Another entertaining and productive round. We are at a decision point at the end on how to continue, but to the game

we make a trade with Cyrus to beef things up

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0001.jpg

We gave Cyrus Liberalism and he ended up switching to FR. In order to maintain our hides, we decide to overlook this. Cyrus is a truly religious man at heart, he just doesn't know this.

Very early in teh round, well you can guess

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0002.jpg

Isabella quickly jumped in against Cyrus (remember me and Cyrus had a defensive pact).

And I paid a visit on my good old baylonian friend

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0004.jpg

And Gahndi joined the war against Monty for free!!!

The current diplo view

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0005.jpg

Ah, magnificent. Can't you feel the love in the air!!!

I toyed with the idea of sending a stack towards MONTY, maybe to take a buddhist border city but decided I did not want to lose any troops. With the shrine income any unit can be fairly easily upgrades.

I also took the earlier advice and switched to US to rush buy some religious buildings.

Then the good old AP vote pops up

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0007.jpg

Yes, we voted ourselves into peace.

Our first of 2 Prophets this round

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0009.jpg

All shrines created.

And we made a pair of nice trades since Cyrus's generosity is drying upo.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0010.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0011.jpg

At this point we are running about 100 gold surplus while at 100% science slider. The religious economy rocks!!!! If I were allowed a military game things would be quite interesting.

Issabella declares war on us by slipping some units through Gahndi (he must have opened borders). Gahndi agrees to declare war on Isabella for free (doea this make sense from him???)

But we get a very nice AP option

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0013.jpg

And the resultsing vote caused

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0015.jpg

Dogpile Issy!!!! This pretty much did her in as later in the game she vassaled to Hammarabi.

We get another trade for Gahndi
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0017.jpg

And a big one from Hammarabi

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0018.jpg

Cannons baby!!!! That should take the starch out of Monty's sails, speaking of which

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIE0019.jpg

I am really looking foreward to playing as this guy, just so I have a game where I don't have to play against him.

So I get Gahndio to join the fight (Hammarabi was still fighting Issy). Monty sent a few units into my territry which I beat back. Here landing a few by Galleon which we killed. Mao declared war but never saw anything. Finally got peace from MONTY for 400 gold (I gave him).

He later declared war on Gahndi who I gifted rifling to so he could defend himself. Having MONTY overrun Gahndi at this point would not be good.

I also got the second Prophet which I used for a GA and hiked the culture slider up to 100%. I saved at the end of the GA

After the GA with 100% culture it will take about 200-250 turns for a culture win which lands us arround 1840's

SO here are my questions:

1) I do not want military tradition since I will no longer be able to build camel archers, which served a good defensive purpose. Yet I really want Hammarabi to get it for a defensive pact as he is the strongest, and next to MONTY and MAO.

2) DO I keep the slider at 100% culture or do I go back to science and shoot for assembly line for infantry? Will that hold long enough to keep MONTY and MAO off my back before the cultural limit? I do not plan to tech SM.

3) Opinons on Cyrus? I do not trust him in BTS. I have given into all his demands (including rifling) as he could be a real danger. He also is cautious with Hammarabi and if those relations deteriorate while I have a defensive pact with Hammarabi????


Well, the amusements never end!

Haha, good stuff :thumbsup: I say keep the slider up and focus on diplomacy for defense. However, if you want to tech I would suggest going for Mass Media over anything else.

The Reincarnationof HOLY SAL!: The enlightenment

The Arab peopl gather arround the holy leader, what shall we do oh mighty one, continue our dancing in teh street or take to more science. Saldain looks across them " MY children, we have done enough. Let us celebrate the bleddings of all the gods, and pray that our brothers can learn to get along and untie under one leader." Saladin goes to his high halls for refreshment and merry making!

Victory is our's! Cultural win at a decent 1835!!! We got into no wars but again watched as the world burned and finally united under Hammarabi's military genius, yet enough Persians remained indifferent to prevent a Babylonian domination win.

Let's begin the tale.

After the GA I kept the culture slider at 100%. Cultural vistory or nothing!. We started teching steam working and actually got it later in a trade.

But first, the war between Gandhi and Monty

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIF0000.jpg

Well relieves that cultural pressure but opens our western border to the nutcase. Luckily at this point Gandhi vassals to Hammarabi, ending with a nice dogpile on Monty.

We paid a steep price for steam power but ended up being an indifferent move except for the Babylonian brownie points

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIF0001.jpg

And Gandhi recaptures the key border city

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIF0002.jpg

I also built ALOT of forts on the western border and manned them with cannons and rifles, just in case. By the way this city ended up culture flipping to me by the end, fi=unny considering this was the city that Gandhi culture bombed against me!!

we did end up losing control of the AP vote, but that's OK. It served it's purpose.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIF0004.jpg

After some peace and restarting the war, Monty ends up dogpiled bigtime (Mao was at war with Hammarabi and eventually capitulated). Near the end of the game Monty capitulated to Hammarabi leaving

Ourselves
Hammarabi
Cyrus
Gandhi

The rest were vassals. My biggest concern was Hammarabi abd Cyrus going at it, so I canceled the defensive pact to Cyrus.

The victory screen, you can see Hammarabi pouring on the domination stats. Good thing very soon afterwards

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SALIIF0008.jpg

I have included a save of the turn just before in case anyone wants to download it to view our peaceful victory song.

Sal was most pleased

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIF0010.jpg

Well, there you have it. I'll post a post-gam report in the next post.

I hope everyone enjoyed the game. An example of the power of a religion and shrine based economy where we had complete control over the slider. Given a normal game we could easily have started a game of military expansion, or done limited expansion for a space race win (we would have needed more cities to win a space race I think). We chose cultural as it weas more in line with the feel of the game although diplomatic would have been fine also but we just did that in the Bismark game.

First, some comments about the rules/guidlines for the RPC
1) We used one non-great prophet (a GE) to rush the AP. While this does sonflict with the rules it certainly fit into the "spirit " of a religious game, asit got us the best dams religious wonder in the game
2) The inability to declare war produced a tight diplomatic soultion. As futurehermit pointed out, not easy (although highly entertainng). Reducing the number of cities I founded and using Gandhi as my human shield worked very nicely.
3) We were able to found all religions (and build the shrines) but Buddhism, and surpisingly Isabella did not found any (I never saw that before). She did manage to capture the Buddhist holy city from Monty by the end which seams to make her happy.
4) We really had more money than I knew what to do with. Rush buying went so far (All I was doing at the end were building rifles and culture). Tech trading was out as I was too far behind at the end.
5) I did maintain open borders with my ffriends even after they went to FR. The gaem really turned out to be a very good example of a diplomatic adventure and breaking those bonds I felt would have deteriotated the game. Plus we did want to win;)

Additional Ruels I did add as time went on

1) I refused to send any troops ourside our culturalt borders.
2) Stopped teching before scientifi method as this was more fitting for a religious game.

Comments on the Culture win

1) WE did it without running any artists!!!
2) We were limited on catherdrals, as we had only 7 cities for most of the game.
3) We never got a Great artist, so all culture points were earned turnwise from each city.


We welcome any feedback on the game and if anyone shdowed it I would be interested in seeing the game summary posted.

I am thinking on how to put together MONTY the Mad Scientist, and should start that in a week or so.

Great job! I played Saladin yesterday and got a cultural victory. It was pretty fun although the terrain I had was really crappy. I had Cyrus and Brennus as friendly religious allies and Pericles as the heathen outcast. Overseas GW vassaled Monty :wow: and the Mayans but was never able to pose a legitimate threat.

I think Saladin is a good leader, but you have to play him differently than most others.

Nice culture victory !
I like those, but I usually get them quite differently, with artists and wars !
I'd say that captured AI capitals are great spots to get to the legendary status.
Actually last one was with Hammurabi ! one paper is not exactly suited for going cultural.

What was the power rating at the end ?
I know that you were busy building cannons and troops in the end, but what kind of technology Cyrus and Hammurabi had in the end ? no screenshots of tech in the end.

Nice culture victory !
I like those, but I usually get them quite differently, with artists and wars !
I'd say that captured AI capitals are great spots to get to the legendary status.
Actually last one was with Hammurabi ! one paper is not exactly suited for going cultural.

What was the power rating at the end ?
I know that you were busy building cannons and troops in the end, but what kind of technology Cyrus and Hammurabi had in the end ? no screenshots of tech in the end.

I usually get them with artists and GAs which is what made this game interesting. And you are right regarding wars, alot of times one of the AIs former capital ends up being one of the three.

The power graph numbers were insignificant as my espionage was nil (never build any building aside from courthouses, never ran a spy specialist, never built a spy!). I cna say I had a higher powergraph rating compared with the two colonies, Bouduca and Julius. I do know I was number 4 in soldiers (figure Hammarabi, Cyrus, and Gandhi were higher).

Here ar esome additional screenshots taken just before the last game turn.

Technology, we really lagged at the end. Diplomacy baby!!!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIFinal0000.jpg


Late game demographics. Tops in gold!!! What a surpirise with 6 shrines!!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIFinal0000.jpg


The final civics.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIFinal0000-1.jpg

NOrmally pacifism would be the preference but mote Great Prophets would not help and the costs of civic upkeep were insignificant.


And the final victory conditions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Sal/SalIIFinal0001.jpg

Note how close things were getting with Hammarabi. If he had kept Gandhi as a vassal it could have been very interesting but I think he needed to invade Persia (I doubt he would have went after me) to get the land for domination. This was the reason I cut the defensive pact with Cyrus.

Great job! I played Saladin yesterday and got a cultural victory. It was pretty fun although the terrain I had was really crappy. I had Cyrus and Brennus as friendly religious allies and Pericles as the heathen outcast. Overseas GW vassaled Monty :wow: and the Mayans but was never able to pose a legitimate threat.

I think Saladin is a good leader, but you have to play him differently than most others.

Thanks!!

I agree Saladin is a good leader and not the dog alot of people think he is (actually there is not leader I do not like playing). I think he has to be played similar to how I did, early religions (a few of them, I went overboard but that was part of the RPC), leverage the protective trait by getting early archery, and beeline for the UU if no horses are arround. He can also win via domination and space but needs the religious start I think, especially with the UB. Control of the AP is pretty critical to him also, more so than most other AIs.

Nice game Madscientist. Missed the last part about the cultural victory but I guess every city had about 4 cathedrals or so. And that without a great artist. Very nice. Waiting for Monty the nutcase.

Welcome to my fifth installment of a Role-Platy Challenge for BTS. Well, let's say 5B as the first attempt at this RPC resulted in a barbarian uprising wiping out the Arabs. The gods have chosen to reincarnate Saladin and give him one more chance to prove his worth. Here we go.
Hi, madscientist.

I tried to find that first Saladin game thread but to no avail. Did you post any screenies before the barbs ate you?

Hi, madscientist.

I tried to find that first Saladin game thread but to no avail. Did you post any screenies before the barbs ate you?

Kazapp here is the link for the first Holy Sal game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253881

If I recall several people tried to shadow teh game and all ended up with the barb uprising. It was an unwinnable game. I ditched the saved games but there are still screenshots.

Thanks for sating my curiosity! :)

I am curious why you waited soooooooo long to swich to culture...

I am curious why you waited soooooooo long to swich to culture...

Self-defense! Once Monty and Isabella stopped trying to take my head off, I felt more comfortable.