I recently came back to Civilization 4 and started to re-learn the basics by playing on an easy difficulty and duel sized pangea map. I'm America and the other civilization is Japan. I recently took their capital city and razed the city near it to lessen Japan's culture surrounding the city I kept. I'm about to go back to war with them now, but I went to see if I could vassalize him instead. When I did, it was redded out, but his excuse was that I was too powerful. That doesn't make any sense, I'd rather vassalize to somebody much more powerful than me than to have them take all of my precious cities by force :crazyeye: . Is this quite common for you guys?

It's because you used too much syrup :p

Maybe it's because you are at the top of the points meter? Even though there are only two of you it probably is still the same way?

Maybe it was because he was your only opponent and vassalizing to you would have given you a domination victory?

nope; civs are afraid to vassalize to too powerful civs because they fear to be draged into bad wars. That's a design decision.

And maybe it's also because of the nature of Japanese leader? I think that he keeps Japan isolated even at high costs.

nope; civs are afraid to vassalize to too powerful civs because they fear to be draged into bad wars. That's a design decision.

Considering there are no other civs to war, that argument has a serious flaw in this situation...?

Also for beeing draged into bad Wars there is "We are afraid of your enemies" thingy

I guess they never agree to be a vassal if that would mean the player's victory? In my last game I had Isabella down to 3 small cities (from about 15) and still she wouldn't capitulate. It would have been the step to Domination victory for me. So I had to go the hard way.

If it said "Vassal State" on opponent's side of the screen that actually would mean YOU becoming HIS vassal state. You have to wait for the option "Capitulate" to appear on his side of the trade screen to have a chance at taking him as your vassal.

Obviously you were too powerful to become his vassal so it was redded out.

If it said "Vassal State" on opponent's side of the screen that actually would mean YOU becoming HIS vassal state. You have to wait for the option "Capitulate" to appear on his side of the trade screen to have a chance at taking him as your vassal.

Nope. You can get a vassal in two ways: willingly, like it's stated above, or via capitulation. "vassal state" in the column of the other civ indeed means that's it's an offer from the other civ to become your vassal.

And in any case, you can't become the vassal of a computer civ :rolleyes:

I guess they never agree to be a vassal if that would mean the player's victory? In my last game I had Isabella down to 3 small cities (from about 15) and still she wouldn't capitulate. It would have been the step to Domination victory for me. So I had to go the hard way.

I think this is the case. I can't ever seem to vassalize a civ when they're the last rival left (conquest victory) or when I'm close to the 66% land mark (domination victory).

And if you're on a dual map, Tokugawa becoming your vassal would end the game by conquest victory.

I think you can't achieve a conquest victory if there are any other civs left, including vassals. Or am I wrong there? Never tested it but if I for example play a map with five AIs and one of them becomes my vassal, the victory screen still says "Rivals remaining: 5".

edit: A forum search suggests that I was wrong. That's good to know.

Nope. You can get a vassal in two ways: willingly, like it's stated above, or via capitulation. "vassal state" in the column of the other civ indeed means that's it's an offer from the other civ to become your vassal.

And in any case, you can't become the vassal of a computer civ :rolleyes:


I actually think the other guy was correct. If you select "Vassal State" from the oppenents trade option, it means you are becomming his Vassal. Willing Vassaling is when they come to you and offer to be your vassal. The only way you can force a vassal is to Capitulate him, which is only available during wartime.

I think you can't achieve a conquest victory if there are any other civs left, including vassals. Or am I wrong there? Never tested it but if I for example play a map with five AIs and one of them becomes my vassal, the victory screen still says "Rivals remaining: 5".

edit: A forum search suggests that I was wrong. That's good to know.

This is what threw me off too. But then I accidentally won a conquest victory (trying for domination) when all remaining civs were my vassals.

I heve seen a statement somewhere, that the human player can never become AI's vassal.

I actually think the other guy was correct. If you select "Vassal State" from the oppenents trade option, it means you are becomming his Vassal. Willing Vassaling is when they come to you and offer to be your vassal. The only way you can force a vassal is to Capitulate him, which is only available during wartime.
No, the human player cannot be the vassal of an AI player. That trade option is for the AI to become your vassal peacefully.

I've won on conquest via Capitulation. I not sure about this but I think that if you capture 5 to 6 of their main cities in quick order then they will capitualte ealier (even before ten turns is out). Taking their capital can help in this way too.

oh yeah, they definitely quite refusing to talk and start crying uncle if you hurt 'em enough. ragnar capitulated 2 turns after i DoW'd him once (i spent a lot of time overpreparing for that war i guess).

wang kon kept asking to my vassal state in an always peace game :crazyeye:. there wasn't any fog of war left, so no barbs, exactly what threat did he want me to protect him from?

Hmm, I made a test in the world builder... started a tiny map with two AIs, made one of them my vassal, gave me a Modern Armor next to the other one's capital and destroyed him, leaving only me and my vassal. Nothing happened :confused:

did you make a city first? silly question, but you can't win until you have a capital i think, so if you tested it too early that would mess it up :lol:. i have won conquest by vassals, but it was warlords not BtS.

I guess they never agree to be a vassal if that would mean the player's victory? In my last game I had Isabella down to 3 small cities (from about 15) and still she wouldn't capitulate. It would have been the step to Domination victory for me. So I had to go the hard way.

This is definitely not the case, I recently had a game where Montezuma vassalized to me giving me my first win on immortal. Of course I only needed like 2% more territory for dommination before he vassalized, but none the less the vassalization facilitated my faster win.

This makes no sense to me, either. I've had that happen to me in more than one game. Wouldn't a wak Civ want to allign themselves with a really powerful one? Blah, I don't understand.

This is definitely not the case, I recently had a game where Montezuma vassalized to me giving me my first win on immortal. Of course I only needed like 2% more territory for dommination before he vassalized, but none the less the vassalization facilitated my faster win.

That's correct. I remember a game that Snaaty played as Persia on the Earth Map. Montezuma capitulated to him (or vassalized), thus giving him a domination victory.

Well, don't know, maybe it was just stupid fanatic Isabella who would rather die than capitulate ;)

did you make a city first? silly question, but you can't win until you have a capital i think, so if you tested it too early that would mess it up :lol:. i have won conquest by vassals, but it was warlords not BtS.
Yes, I waited one turn until everyone had established a capital. But in the worldbuilder there's only one option for vassals, and maybe I made him my 'voluntary' vassal? I guess only capitulated vassals are allowed for conquest victory?