In my current game, just by sheer coincidence, I saved approximately 8 turns before Boudica finished The Manhatten Project.

I have never really used nuclear weapons before, but I figured that since I had a save game, I could "experiment" with ICBM's and Tactical Nukes. Hannibal was my closest neighbor that I don't have Friendly relations with, so he was selected to be the guinea pig.

Popped off a couple ICBM's at his largest population cities and within a few turns I was invading his continent (Hemisphere map, random number of continents) and taking cities left and right. That's when I started getting 2 or 3 "Global Warming strikes near xxxxx" notifications per turn. In total, I lost maybe 12 tiles, 1 was an aluminum mine and the other was an oil tile. I have multiples of those resources, but I founded Mining Inc. So every little bit helps.

Does the Global Warming only affect the nation that launches the nuke or is it truly random?

Does the number of Global Warming events correlate with the number of nukes launched?

I ask this because I quit with the nukes after I started having mass Global Warming but 15 turns or so later Boudica went nuts launching like 8 nukes in one turn against Wang Kon. I played another 10 or 15 turns and never saw any other notifications.

I'm trying to decide if it would be better to start from the save point and not use nukes, or just tough it out and kill off Hannibal.

Global warming is only occurs after the first nuclear explosion (could be a power plant melting down rather than a nuke). After that there's something like a 20% chance of a tile changing to desert each turn, per nuke detonated, so global warming is directly proportional to nuke usage. It's random, and can hit anywhere on the planet regardless of who's slinging nukes or where they're going.

In total, I lost maybe 12 tiles, 1 was an aluminum mine and the other was an oil tile. I have multiples of those resources, but I founded Mining Inc. So every little bit helps.

Generally you can rebuild resource improvements after global warming strikes, and indeed you can end up with some very strange combinations of resources and desert due to it.

oops MrCynical said what i said, i just didn't notice that post somehow :crazyeye:. the only thing i'd add is that you don't get any notification when an AI nuke plant melts down, so sometimes the random global warming starts "out of nowhere" from your perspective, which tends to irritate me.

I know where the global warming comes from in this game...all those ICBM's Boudica and I were throwing around. :lol:

I reverted back to my prior save. About 20 turns later I had Peter and his 3 vassals declare war on me. :crazyeye:

Global warming is only occurs after the first nuclear explosion (could be a power plant melting down rather than a nuke). After that there's something like a 20% chance of a tile changing to desert each turn, per nuke detonated, so global warming is directly proportional to nuke usage. It's random, and can hit anywhere on the planet regardless of who's slinging nukes or where they're going.



Generally you can rebuild resource improvements after global warming strikes, and indeed you can end up with some very strange combinations of resources and desert due to it.

I had been looking for numbers like this. But realistically,why would GW happen at random anywhere? Shouldn't it have a higher concentration near tiles that were directly hit by an ICBM?

Why warming anyway ?! It's post-nuclear Winter not Summmer after all :D Having hard time finding evidence (or even speculation) connecting Nuclear Plant meltdowns with Global Warming as well....

Mod to change "warming" to "winter"? :crazyeye:

Anyways, Does Nuke warming ever stop? or does it keep on until 100% of the world is desert?
When does it stop :nuke:

the connection between global warming and nukes is called cutting corners, and no it dont stop till all tiles that can be are changed its just the more you nuke the faster the dust ball you get (1=20/1000 so more like 2% chance per turn per nuke/plant detonated)

There seems to be nothing in the code to make it stop.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that global warming starts at some point even if there would be no nuclear explosions at all.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that global warming starts at some point even if there would be no nuclear explosions at all.

Thats what I used to think (Being a CivI to CivIII player, so... ;) ) but in CivIV Global Warming only starts if there is a melt down or nuke being launched. And since the AI is extremely trigger happy with nuke :mad: , you can bet that it will happen in almost every game at any setting that is higher than settler. :D I have seen AI launching nuke at barbarian, mind you! :crazyeye: Talk about gross overkill. :lol:

I'm also assuming the variables between ICBMs and Tactics are the exact same, except for range and cost. Though I'm not 100% sure how the new patch handles SDI interception between them.

I used to be under the impression tacticals got through the SDI, but I've had enough of those shot down lately that I'm not sure what's what anymore.

I also wonder, doesn't leaving irradiated tiles also contribute to global warming? Seems every time I figure this stuff out, a new patch or expansion comes out.

Actually, I do know that ICBM's do MORE DAMAGE than tactics, but again I never got to see how the mathematics of this breaks down. I can put together that shelters have a 50% penalty to nukes and that's about it.

I was thinking tactical nukes will not be intercepted by SDI, as it says "Chance to intercept a ICBM"... Don't have first hand experience on this however...

From looking at the code, leaving tiles with fallout does not give you any GW. The GW routine is very plain so i do not think i missed something.

Hmm, I am guessing that the tactical nukes getting shot by the SDI now could very well be a bug. I will assume so until someone here proves me otherwise.

In any case, I do think these issues are important, as nuking is much more important in BtS than previous editions. No more perma-banning from the UN, and with run away culture civs on other continents, you MUST find a way to slow down their wins.

Thats what I used to think (Being a CivI to CivIII player, so... ;) ) but in CivIV Global Warming only starts if there is a melt down or nuke being launched. And since the AI is extremely trigger happy with nuke :mad: , you can bet that it will happen in almost every game at any setting that is higher than settler. :D I have seen AI launching nuke at barbarian, mind you! :crazyeye: Talk about gross overkill. :lol:

Really? Granted, I play at a lower difficulty level (paying Noble until I get over the urge to stop neglecting my military/over-focusing on 'pretty cities') but I don't think I've ever seen an AI use a nuke...

EDIT: Oops, after I thought about it I realized I typically control the UN, and run the nop-nukes ban... :) guess that would explain the no-nukes thing in my games, huh? :p

Talking about so many nukes I really miss the planet busters from SMAC that didn't give GW.:crazyeye:

Really? Granted, I play at a lower difficulty level (paying Noble until I get over the urge to stop neglecting my military/over-focusing on 'pretty cities') but I don't think I've ever seen an AI use a nuke...

EDIT: Oops, after I thought about it I realized I typically control the UN, and run the nop-nukes ban... :) guess that would explain the no-nukes thing in my games, huh? :p

there was a bug in vanilla that prevented the AI from building ICBMs. there weren't any tactical nukes of course, so they couldn't build any nukes. that bug was fixed ... in July of this year, when BtS came out :crazyeye:. so anyone who stuck with vanilla and skipped warlords never ever saw AI nukes at all until BtS came out. i imagine it takes some getting used to. :lol:

I have seen AI launching nuke at barbarian, mind you! :crazyeye: Talk about gross overkill. :lol:

that was another patch note that cracked me up. this time in warlords, in the may 2007 patch.
"AI no longer dumps their entire nuclear arsenal on the barbarians" *giggle*

Why warming anyway ?! It's post-nuclear Winter not Summmer after all :D Having hard time finding evidence (or even speculation) connecting Nuclear Plant meltdowns with Global Warming as well....

Hear, hear!

oops MrCynical said what i said, i just didn't notice that post somehow :crazyeye:. the only thing i'd add is that you don't get any notification when an AI nuke plant melts down, so sometimes the random global warming starts "out of nowhere" from your perspective, which tends to irritate me.

Agree aswell - Though I have to add that the human player seems harder struck by GW, but that's probably just me.

there was a bug in vanilla that prevented the AI from building ICBMs. there weren't any tactical nukes of course, so they couldn't build any nukes. that bug was fixed ... in July of this year, when BtS came out :crazyeye:. so anyone who stuck with vanilla and skipped warlords never ever saw AI nukes at all until BtS came out. i imagine it takes some getting used to. :lol:
that was another patch note that cracked me up. this time in warlords, in the may 2007 patch.
"AI no longer dumps their entire nuclear arsenal on the barbarians" *giggle*

:O Didn't know that, so I haven't seen AI nuking at all´- maby in the current game!

Talking about so many nukes I really miss the planet busters from SMAC that didn't give GW.:crazyeye:

Instead of GW we got berserk aliens and mushroom growth on us if you used lots of them. :D (A bit better but not much, and thats how nukes should be! Nukes in Civ IV are too weak! :p)

Look... all I know is that the Earth is a precious thing, and because of man it's warming... Earth's temperature has risen half a degree higher, so obviously the world will soon be a ball of fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZrhG2iT3H0).

Having said that... does cleaning up (or not cleaning up) fallout decrease or increase the chance of Gore's Global Warming effect during a Nuclear Winter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter)?

Frankly, I'm tired of Global Warming... I wish Nuclear War would cause a Nuclear Winter (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=337800968660684116&q=nuclear+winter+sagan&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0), frankly I thought Carl Sagan was smarter then Al Gore, but that's just me.

I always couldn't figure out how people like Sagan don't make it to be President, yet these Bush a-holes do.

In any case, in one of my Immortal games I fired a hundred icbms. One AI gave me a -86 diplo rating for "You nuked my friends" and then in addition to that was another negative rating for the total number of nukes I had dropped just on him!

That struck me as odd as I didn't realize you could have relationship ratings that dropped so low. I know when you keep trading with enemies, or demanding techs, that there is a limit on the negative accumulation. Maybe Firaxis over-looked this one? Or did they cap it after 1000 nukes? Good question.

seen the numbers on a single modifier go well over -500 on the diplo screan.
(really is annoying to see a stone quarry survive 5 direct icbm assults in a row)

Why did you Nuked a Stone Quarry ? Trying to remove your opponents acces to the Key ressource of the Next World War ? :D

I've seen a lot of fully grown towns survive 2 direct hits at ground-zero.

As for nuking quarries, nope I never do it. But I WILL nuke uranium deposites for obvious reasons.

Per the Civilopedia, Tac Nukes have a 75% chance of evading interception. I believe this refers specifically to SDI interception. Guided Missiles are rated at having a 100% interception chance.

I think the effect of nukes is fine in CivIV - turning tiles into desert ("desert" has nothing to do with "hot", there are hot and cold deserts). Only the name 'global warming' is wrong... I guess they thought they had to include it in some way, no matter how wrong :rolleyes:

The last time i tried to check up info on the t-nukes, I could swear the civopedia didn't list that 75% evasion chance. Maybe I just was too tired to notice it, or there's been changes. I'm going to go back and re-read over again.

At least, some pieces are coming together here. And to be honest, the only reason I really try to build subs are for carrying tacticals.

Global warming is the worst game mechanic IMO. I'm trying to edit it out of my game, but being a tech tard, doing anything with XML, Python, whatever makes my head hurt :(

Killing it away is actually rather easy:

GlobalDefines.XML in the Assets/XML/ folder has: <Define>
<DefineName>GLOBAL_WARMING_TERRAIN</DefineName>
<DefineTextVal>TERRAIN_DESERT</DefineTextVal>
</Define>if you want to replace the terrain and <Define>
<DefineName>GLOBAL_WARMING_PROB</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>Which can be set to 0.

I can't find it :( I feel like an idiot, but there is no XML folder in the Assests folder. I must be missing something obvious...

I can't even get the unofficial patch working properly, and I've gotten a bunch of help on it. I don't understand :(

You can't copy a file onto your computer? How do you handle Word or Excel? ;)

Of course I'd prefer a game world without global warming nuclear wastelands, but that would be cheating. I always want to play the game like it's meant to be... has something to do with competition. Mastering the next difficulty level wouldn't be satisfying if I modded the game in my favor.

I can't find it :( I feel like an idiot, but there is no XML folder in the Assests folder. I must be missing something obvious...

I can't even get the unofficial patch working properly, and I've gotten a bunch of help on it. I don't understand :(

Uh... has to be... Its there... While at it, i also pointed to the place to drop the inofficial patch (in green).http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6950/folderspv0.jpg

Per the Civilopedia, Tac Nukes have a 75% chance of evading interception. I believe this refers specifically to SDI interception. Guided Missiles are rated at having a 100% interception chance.

I recently read this and it said 50% chance of evasion. That s with BtS not patched thou.

I played a game recently and won a diplomatic victory. At the time I had just sent a force to attack an AI, so I thought i'll do some more turns just to kick his ass. The Next turn he nuked my attacking fleet and *poof* it was gone save a transport which he killed manualy.:cry:

Nukes ain't worth the hassle unless you can make sure no one else has them either by tech or resorce. Ban it or pillage their Uranimum. Bts espinage used right is more than capable of stopping space, cult vics IMHO

Azrune, I was just going to post the same thing. Either the value's been changed again during the last patch, or the civ pedia is wrong. Actually the civ pedia has been wrong with a lot of numbers in the past so I wouldn't be surprised.

But also something else changed. Currently it lists bomb-shelters as having a -75% modifier on nukes. Well, it was 50% just before the last patch wasn't it?

When I installed the upgrade I never got the typical notes you'd expect for informing of all the changes. I guess we have to figure them out bit by bit.

I have trouble to understand the code on Nuke interception (to many references to other methods, which i am lazy to look up), but from what i see, both Tac-Nuke and ICBM will be intercepted by SDI. Tac-Nuke however has 50% evasion chance.... I wonder how SDI is supposed to intercept a suborbital short range/short alert time missile... well.

Good point on patch-log btw. Nothing is included with the package - the only thing we have is the list in the Thread at the forums i think turned up a month before the patch was done :(

Hmm, and I remember a time when we used to grip how bad nukes were in Vanilla. Now they are totally chopped. Tactics went from 0% interception to half, and ICBMs are still at only 1 in 4 getting through. Say OUCH to the most expensive unit in the friggen game! Not to mention it REQUIRES a specific resource as well. And now, the shelter is upped all the way to a -75% modifier on those nukes, just incase you happen to get one of your twenty thousand hammer investment projects slide through the SDI LMAO!

Oh well, I see people are mostly gripping about the global warming, but I think we have other issues to worry about here.

Why not open up some other techs then, like one that allows you to put mirrors on your nukes so you can reflect the laser :P Or another where you launch a hundred other decoy's, increasing your chances even further of getting through.

Hell, god knows the first thing that would happen in any nuke war, is the SDI would be the first thing that gets hit anyway. End of story to this science-fiction nonsense.

Building nucl. power plants reduce the chance of a meltdown, Does anyone know how this works in the game?

???

Building Nuclear Powerplants introduce the chance of meltdown. This works very simple:

Every Nuclear Plant you have has a chance of [don't remember] % to become a Nuke and Blow every turn. O focurse every plant can only do this once. The expectation is that when building the plants consistently you will have one melting down once in every game.

I wonder, if you lose your source of uranium, if you still risk getting a melt-down. Nothing crazy in this game surprises me anymore.

The method does not check if you have uranium, it just checks if any building in your city has a chance to blow > 0. So i am afraid the answer is 'yes'

The whole global warming issue is one of the key points I've been addressing in my mod. One of the big things it needs is a difference between a nuclear weapon and a reactor melt-down. I also felt that, considering places like Chernobyl, the ability to 'erase' fallout and get right back to business was a bit odd and nuclear weapons in general felt horribly under-powered.

Simply changing global warming from it's default implimentation of turning everything to desert into a process of degrading terrain from grassland to plains or plains to desert had a pretty big effect. Also, using the existing random events it's possible to increase the frequency of of the hurricane, tornado and flood events. I'm testing this effect now and it works fairly well, makes it feel more like enviromental turmoil rather than simply global warming.

If you think nukes are too weak... try my mod out, start a custom game and make sure you have 'Highly Destructinve Nuclear Weapons' enabled in the options list. Then go into world builder, give yourself a sizeable arsenal and have some fun, note that you can see where nukes hit on the world map as long as you don't nuke the ocean or the desert. :)

Hmm, and I remember a time when we used to grip how bad nukes were in Vanilla. Now they are totally chopped. Tactics went from 0% interception to half, and ICBMs are still at only 1 in 4 getting through. Say OUCH to the most expensive unit in the friggen game! Not to mention it REQUIRES a specific resource as well. And now, the shelter is upped all the way to a -75% modifier on those nukes, just incase you happen to get one of your twenty thousand hammer investment projects slide through the SDI LMAO!


Don't forget that SDI comes a lot later than the Manhattan Project, as it requires Laser. In fact SDI has never been completed in any of my games. If you are first to have nuclear weapons and are going for a domination/conquest victory, just nuke the AIs before they can advance to Laser and the SDI. Their research won't be so fast anymore once their cities have been reduced to rubble...

If they are not building the SDI, sounds like your playing at a very easy level. The higher you go, the faster they tech, the faster they launch, etc.

Anyhow, I'm never TOO WORRIED about global warming. By the time that hits, you are starting to near the end of the game.

I play Monarch or, recently, Emperor. In my experience there are only nuclear weapons in the world if I want it. If I do not complete the Manhattan Project, the UN ban is always in effect before anyone else builds any nukes. The AIs always vote for banning nukes.

I play Monarch or, recently, Emperor. In my experience there are only nuclear weapons in the world if I want it. If I do not complete the Manhattan Project, the UN ban is always in effect before anyone else builds any nukes. The AIs always vote for banning nukes.
Who says you have to listen to the UN?

Nobody, but in most games I don't want nukes. And the AIs never defy it, either.

But in my last game Asoka did in fact complete Manhattan Project - and SDI only one turn later :eek: This was only because I didn't bring up the nuke-resolution, though. I wanted to see if someone builds it when I let them. Well, the game was almost finished and no nuke was ever launched, but still... at least someone did it.

Doesn't BtS's SDI require, like, a complete end of the line tech? As in, one of the 3 that puts you into the Future era?

Well whatever. The point of nukes in Civ4 is to squash enemy stacks that number over a hundred. Now speedy techers, the kind that could unlock SDI, don't tend to make those and throw them at you. But I bet that on higher levels you could turn on aggressive AI and see say Shaka or Napoleon assemble a stack of at least 200 and let it rip. Due to BtS's nonsensical implementation of flanking, stacks like that built by a more backwards leader are bound to contain a ton of siege units that your gunships can't flank, so they are a serious threat that warrants a mushroom cloud.

SDI requires Laser, so yes, if you are first at Fission and build the Manhattan Project rightaway, you have some time for happy nuking. Better yet, be also first to research rocketry so nobody can fight back :mischief: It's like Truman nuking the soviets in 1948 when they still had the monopoly...