Every civilization gets a world spell in "Shadow". This spell can only be used once per game and has far reaching effects. Some are available from the begining of the game and some have a tech prereq before they can be used. In all cases some AI logic has been written to get them to use the spell at an appropruate time.

We will need a little help balancing here. The effects are significant and are incrediably varied, so as you can understand balance is going to be an issue. As always remember that we balance by the Civ (are the Calabim equal to the Luchuirp) not by the feature (so we aren't attempting to make the Calabim world spell equal to the Luchuirp world spell).Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: All the players Arcane units gain 1xp per upgraded mana node in the world, all mana nodes revert to raw mana.
Balseraphs- Revelry: Initiaties a Golden Age that lasts twice as long as normal.
Bannor- Rally: Creates a Demagog in every Bannor city and on every Bannor Town improvement, only usueable during a crusade
Calabim- River of Blood: All Calabim cites get +2 population, all non-Calabim cities get -2 population (to a minimum of 1 population)
Clan of Embers- For the Horde: 50% of the barbarian orc units convert to the Players control
Doviello- Wild Hunt: Creates a wolf unit for every combat unit the player controls, the wolfes strength is based on the matching combat units strength
Elohim- Sanctuary: Kicks all non-team units out of their borders and makes all non-team unable to enter the players lands for 30 turns
Grigori- Ardor: Resets the players Great People counter
Hippus- Warcry: Grants all combat units +1 strength, blitz, +1 movement and has a 5% chance per turn of wearing off
Illians- (won’t be added until “ice”)
Infernal- Hyborems Whisper: Allows Hyborem to take control of a city with the Ashen Veil religion
Khazad- Motherlode: Gives the player 10gp per mine they control
Kuriotates- Legends: Gives a huge culture boost to all the players cities and settlements
Lanun- Raging Seas: Acts as a Tsunami for the entire world, but it won't damage Lanun ships or improvements
Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: All forests in the players empire turn into Treants for 3 turns, when the Treants die they return to forests in the plot (if it can support a forest)
Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: Create a Golden Hammer equipment in each of the players cities (Golden Hammers can be picked up by a unit to boost his strength, used to finish a building, or given to a citizen to create a great engineer specialist)
Malakim- Religious Fervor: Creates a priest of the players state religion in each of the players cities with that state religion, these priests start with +1 xp for every city the player has with that religion
Mercurians- Divine Retribution: Does damage to all Undead and Demonic units in the world
Sheaim- Worldbreak: Does damage to all units in cities, forest fires start around the world
Sidar- Into the Mist: All the players combat units become Hidden (aka: invisible until they attack or cast a spell)
Svartalfar- Veil of Night: All the players combat units gain Hidden Nationality

So, how are World Spells actually cast? Are they available to any of the civs units, or to specific units like like mages? or are these spells actually rituals? or is their casting mechanism completely different?


Spell Critiques:

Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: Sounds interesting, but i seems odd that it effects all civs evenly, unlike most of the spells.

Balseraphs- Revelry:

Bannor- Rally: This seems like the weakest one. Not only is it limited to being used while using a civic I never really cared for, but its effect is also about the same as a passive ability the civ already had. Also, free units isn't typically such a good thing, since they cost upkeep. I would rather have small elite armies any day.

Calabim- River of Blood: Seems a little weak. As the Calabim, I usually want my rivals cities to be as large as possible--so I can capture them and feast until they reach the minimum size (or, in my modded version, feasting until there is no one left in the city, at which point the spell razes it).

Clan of Embers- For The Horde: Nice. Maybe the units should come with some cities too. Can this spell convert Orthus to your civ? I think that should be possible. That would be the best use of this spell, imo.

Doviello- Wild Hunt:

Elohim- Sanctuary: Nice. Combined with Corindales spell, this means the Elohim can be invulnerable for 40 turns. Sounds great for an Altar or Tower victory (not that I ever allow those victory conditions personally)

Grigori- Ardor: Nice. (when you say "players" do you mean player's or players'?)

Hippus- Warcry: Not bad.

Illians- (won’t be added until “ice”): I'm hoping this means that it includes an improved AoI-like Blizzard event, which you feel you need more time to perfect.

Infernal- Hyborems Whisper: Nice, but it probably needs to also create some units to guard the city, and existing buildings/culture/wonders should remain intact. I immagine the AV holy city is the most likely target.

Khazad- Motherlode: Not a huge fan. There is already a motherload event in the mod (assuming you haven't removed it) which gives exrta gold for mines. What I think this should do is cause all or most of the peaks in Khadad territory to gain mines (possibly quarries for a few of them) and to randomly create gold/iron/copper/mithril/gems (/stone/shuet stone?) on many of these tiles. (I also think dwarven workers (or possible any unit with dwarven) should be able to move impassible, and that the bWater tag on mountains should be changed from 1 to 0 to allow them to build roads to connest these new resources)

Kuriotates- Legends: Honestly, I don't think the Kuriotates need more culture boosts. They already tend to control more territory than they can defend.

Lanun- Raging Seas: Nice, but would be much nicer if Tsunami could still turn land into water. Even if a normal Tsunami spell can't, I think this spell should have a (very) small chance to turn each land tile into a coast.

Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: Nice, but I'm not sure that I like the part about them turning to forests when they die. Did you mean when the 3 turns are up, or when they are defeated? If you mean the latter, then it sounds hard to implement (unless all treants turn to forests upon their death). I think it might be more interesting if these (or maybe all) treants were given the ability a spell that sacrifices the unit in order to plant a forest in an unforested tile, or to make a forested tile become an ancient forest. Also, Ancient forests should either produce more treants then normal forests, or they should create significaantly stronger treants. Also, I'm worried about what will happen to elven cottages/farms/etc on forested tiles. Presumably the forests here would disappear, but, since you can't plant forests on tile with such improvements, will the Treant's deaths put these forests back? If not, then I think that needs to be changed. Perhaps there should not be a check to see if the tile could normally support a forest. I would live to use this to make my cities forested.

(I think that religions too, not just civs, should have world spells. The March of the Trees sounds like it might be a better FoL world spell than a Ljosalfar one.)

Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: sounds alright

Malakim- Religious Fervor:

Mercurians- Divine Retribution: Sounds too similar to Glory Everlasting, but weaker.

Sheaim- Worldbreak: It would be nice if this would also create "dimensional rift" terrain improvements of various types randomly throughout the world. These would create standard summons for the Barbarian State (if there is a summoning unit on the tile, possible under that unit's civ's control instead?), but without any limitations on duration. (I was actually thinking Dimensional Rift would make a good dimensional 2 or 3 spell too, in which case a unit with that promotions should be required in order for a civ to control the units spawned.) (It might be good for the units spawned by the rifts associated with law/life/other good spheres to be under Basium's control instead of the barbs')

Sidar- Into the Mist: I may have to wit until the article on the Shades, or possibly until I actually get the game, to know how I think this would work.

Svartalfar- Veil of Night: Sounds nice.



p.s. Is it possible to remove the "once per game" limit? Some of these sound like they would be really fun to abuse multiple times. I'm not asking that the limit be removed, I just want to know if I could mod it that way just to see what its like.

i like the Ljosalfar the most... has a mystic feel to it

All the effects seem really interesting. At first I was dubious these would be any more interesting than wonders, but they all seem to have the ability to really swing the game in your favor. How is the AI at using these?

Only one big no-no here:

Ljosalfar- March of the Trees

It sounds great but only if they would be FoL. Suposedly I wat to play my Ljosalfar as AV or OO in my game, then it becomes counter-flavourful. This world spell would be very nice as a religious world spel.

wow, that Lanun one is exciting. Grigori's Ardor affects all players?

Nevermind, I get it. That counter.

When the Treants go to war I would be safe to assume the improvements that had been in them would be destroyed? And when the 3 turns is up the become trees were they currently stand? So vast tracks of elven land could now be missing both their trees and improvements at the end of the spell? Or am I reading into this wrong?

sorry, double post

When the Treants go to war I would be safe to assume the improvements that had been in them would be destroyed? And when the 3 turns is up the become trees were they currently stand? So vast tracks of elven land could now be missing both their trees and improvements at the end of the spell? Or am I reading into this wrong?

I took it to mean that a plot would yield a treant but remain forest and when they die just become another forest (ala Helms Deep)

Yeah, I took it as creating treants in the same way they're created in Ancient Forests now. Only it's 100% chance for all forested squares to spawn treants. So if none die and they all move, you've doubled your forest area.

...turn into Treants... not spawn.

I like... I'm kinda worried 'bout the March of the Trees possibly causing system deadlock... I don't know about you but when I'm playing a tree-hugger game pretty much every single square within my borders is covered in trees of one sort or another. That would be a lot of treants.

seems kinda kool :
I try to take into account the strength of the whole civ in my comments but I don't know how shadow will change civ strengths so when I find a spell underpowered I may really be wrong...
Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: all players' arcan units or all amurite arcan units?.
Balseraphs- Revelry: kool
Bannor- Rally: kool but maybe upkeep issues...
Calabim- River of Blood: ok.
Clan of Embers- For the Horde: much less useful mid-late game than early game... late is mostly demons barbs, with few un-owned lands for orcish barbs to spawn.
Doviello- Wild Hunt: kool
Elohim- Sanctuary: powerful kool :)
Grigori- Ardor: grigori's counters ? or all players' counter
Hippus- Warcry: 5% chance is big... in 5 turns, half your invading army may have lost the promo. (maybe a round 20turns is better than 5% chance) or maybe if repeatable :50-100 turns or sacrifying a lvl 8-10 mounted unit ?
Illians- (won’t be added until “ice”)
Infernal- Hyborems Whisper: 1 city is few, maybe repeatable every 50-100t, hyborem does'nt starts really powerful especially as AI,
Khazad- Motherlode: no idea of the mine density on khazad games... my last game would have brought me less than 1000 gp, current game, 1000gp is 1 turn at 0% science... maybe it is not really powerfull. but khazad are... ok
Kuriotates- Legends: already a lot of culture for kurios..
Lanun- Raging Seas: kool... depending on current tsunami spell action.. can it have a chance of turning land into sea if no ressource/no unit on the plot ??
Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: ubercool ..; but : maybe more FoL than Ljos ; people will have a LOT of upkeep for 3turns, what of ancient forests? , production (forest & ancient forests) and food (ancient forest) will go down during the time the forest is awaken ... but it is really the ultimate invasion crusher.. what happens when ennemy is on forest in ljos land ? what happen when trent dies fighting : a forest slot disappear ? plus it would be a nightmare to play those 3 turns... 500+ units to move each turn ... what happen to forest cottage... ? coz' you can raze, bloom and rebuild every mine/farm to get forested tiles abck but razing a forested town will make you lose 60+turns of improvement
Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: kool
Malakim- Religious Fervor: cool
Mercurians- Divine Retribution: percentage damage ? or pure damage ? can some undead unit/demon really die ? or do they all stay alive ? if no unit die it may be not really powerful especially as basium is not really powerfull.. it would only give a 3 turns break / advantage over enemy civs, but huge boost against the horsmen...if you can wait until the 4 of us are in play.
Sheaim- Worldbreak: cool
Sidar- Into the Mist: cool : is hidden a promo (as forest sleath was) or is it a 1 time promo as immortal or as treetop defense was ??
Svartalfar- Veil of Night: coolthanks for all those pretty toys to play with :D

First glance impression. Recommendations underlined.
Amurites: Maybe revert only Amurites controlled mana nodes? Otherwise they may help somebody build the Tower. And if AI will necessarily call it sooner or later it will be strongly exploitable by human rival.
Balseraphs: Very strong but good.
Bannor- Rally: Fresh meat! :) Acceptable.
Calabim- River of Blood: Again fresh meat! :lol: Acceptable.
Clan of Embers- For the Horde: We'll see.
Doviello- Wild Hunt: We'll see. Overall Doviello still need a boost.
Elohim- Sanctuary: Good.
Grigori- Ardor: Good! Maybe too strong.
Hippus- Warcry: Acceptable. Maybe decrease percentage?
Infernal- Hyborems Whisper: Very good for Infernals but usually very bed for his summoner. :) If you want to destroy the world, do it yourself. That is not so good. Maybe let him gain ANY city with simultaneous converting it into AV and even give it AV holy city status. And granting all Inf. initial buildings. And of cause strong relationsip penalty with robbed nation. BTW Whispering Hyborem should be something impressive...
Khazad- Motherlode: Too weak. Seems much less then one Great Merchant.
Kuriotates- Legends: Seems too specific. And attaches them too much to cultural victory. Maybe acceptable... but that is not what they really need.
Lanun- Raging Seas: With such spell Lanun should start as evil. Maybe better is just to destroy all rival ships and sea improvements? (And then sell everybody sea resources for money? ;) )
Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: There are many nuances. Basically this is an extremal defensive action - OK as it is. But then you may loose some forest because of the travelled or killed treants - that is a pity. Second, these 3 turns are strong strike on your cities especially if you have Guardian of the nature. This may be really painful. Maybe leave forest - not turn into but produce new treants. With new forest created after their deaths. And of cause allow forest setting over elven improvements. Variant: make it religious spell (according to MagisterCultuum) and produce treants only by antient forests turning them into forests. BTW it is neseccary anyway to allow plant forest over elven improvements. Otherwise player is obliged to destroy impr, plant forest and build impr manually - very boring.
Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: We'll see. BTW proposition not on the spell: let any golem be conserved in a city, i.e. temporarily immobilized and turned into 0 strength (and maybe make hidden) for some amount of gold with making it free of fee on the time of conservation. It should be a great strategical variation - and more flavor.
Malakim- Religious Fervor: OK
Mercurians- Divine Retribution: Very weak as Mercurians are theirselfs. :(
Sheaim- Worldbreak: Acceptable.
Sidar- Into the Mist: We'll see. Completely invisible? And what about pillage? :lol:
Svartalfar- Veil of Night: Very good!

Very cool ideas! I'm impressed again by the teams genius.

All the changes make me want to play at least 10 civs in my first game of Shadow. Damn! :D

4 things i'm worried about:
1. the amurites spell really depends on world size. If you're playing a duel map, the spell will hardly have any effect, but if you're on huge you'll get 50 level 10 mages instantly.
2. Clan of embers: does this include orthus?
3. Khazad: too weak. besides that, by the time you've reached the level where the spell gets interesting, you're already full or overflowing anyway. i'd have preferred + 1-2 commerce per mine for x turns.
4. The Ljos: Imagine a forest turning into a treeant while there was a town under it. Then the treeant dies attacking an attacking army (which is when this should be used), or the treeant can't make it back in time. Now you have to raze the town, cast bloom, and wait another 100 turns before the tile is back to it's former function! could be countered by allowing bloom to be cast over elven improvements (even though this may be tough to implement, not the actual casting, but to prevent it from working over mines etc.).

Cool new mechanics! World Spells are going to give even more depth to the game.

All the changes make me want to play at least 10 civs in my first game of Shadow.

Yeah, I always have the same problem when starting a new FfH game and it seems that Shadow will make decisions even harder :crazyeye:

Some of these spells are game changing, so you should be careful that they don't have a negative impact on the game experience. I am particularly worried about the lanun one, as you would know that all your coast cities has a 10% chance of being wiped out at some point in the game. That would suck for a builder like me (maybe change the tsunami effect? It could function more like a nuke perhaps).

Yeah, with such spell Lanun should start as evil. Maybe better is just to destroy all rival ships and sea improvements? (And then sell everybody sea resources for money? ;)

The Lanun spell is awesome for multiplayer games. Maybe make it so that a tsunami cast by a Lanun archmage doesn't inflict any damage on Lanun units?

Sweet! Can't help but add my own comments:

Calabim- River of Blood: Wow, this sounds very powerful. I'm interested in learning the in-game explanation of how it works.
Clan of Embers- For the Horde: Very cool. If it includes Orthus, triple cool.
Khazad- Motherlode: Seems like a low amount of money for a one-time shot. If it includes all mines within cultural borders, then this gives the player incentive to mine everywhere => very cool.
Lanun- Raging Seas: No comment on the spell. Just want to say, please don't listen to the requests to make this destroy land. It took far too long to get that effect out of the Tsunami spell in the first place.

World spells look a good idea too.. I know Ill end up using them far too early... like child at xmas who cant wait to open his presents :lol:

just out of interest..."Calabim- River of Blood: All Calabim cites get +2 population, all non-Calabim cities get -2 population (to a minimum of 1 population)"

anything to do with my failed entry in to the Wonder contest???

Clan of Embers- For the Horde - Orthus? Nah, I will wait till AC goes near 90, then a turn before the spell is build I will raise AC and will claim back[half of it] the Avatars army ]:->

The ideas are very cool, but in general they are too powerful. As a whole, they need to be toned down. If this makes them feel too weak them give some spells the ability to be cast twice or three times, giving a little variety and flexibility between the civs.

Hippus - Warcry is the sort of thing I see as being good for casting once while Elohim - Sanctuary might work better as three spells that last 10 turns each, with ten turns wait between repeat castings.

Nice.

Motherlode seems pretty weak though.

I think it would be interesting to have a series of apocalyptic world spells available to everyone...

Examples:
A spell that spreads a chasm of hell terrain down the center of the map and releases a horde of demons..

Or maybe a spell that induces/reverses the end of winter (on the ends of opposite sides of the tech tree). Maybe players could use/build a 'spell' that was an acrology equivalent to keep their terrain intact within a certain radius of the city, inducing the feeling of a haven of civilization among the ruins of a world...Building this protection could be tied to limited and specific resources that are sacrificed upon building but make a transition into equipment once a city is razed. in a way this could be implemented into the hell mechanic but I like the RP aspect of the 'return of winter'...

Players could either seek out protection, steal it from others or research a way to end winter once again before the world falls into a second night.

The Bannor world spell seems pretty boring, and sorta weak (it would be that even if it wasn't restricted to times of crusade). Considering that the Bannor are already one of the most bland civilizations around, I'd like to see something neater for them...

Without the tech requirements, it's difficult to gauge how powerful these actually are.

For example, the Calabim spell is insane if you can cast it from the start of the game - it can cripple all your enemies when they're trying to build that first settler and make it much easier for you to do so, giving you at least a 20 turn advantage. IMO, this strengthens the Calabim hugely in the early game, which was previously their biggest weak point.

Likewise, 'For the Horde' at game start may give the Clan a stupid edge over everyone else, depending on the barb settings.

Also, some effects don't appear to scale well to map size compared to others. This might be something to be wary of.

I hope there is some restriction on Hyborems Whisper,ie only not capital cities, or this is gonna stop my OCC games...

I tend to like a Ljos/FoL game and if I were to cast this spell mid game the game would become totally unplayable. Every square I own is wooded... The upkeep would kill me and the CPU time would kill the game.

Nah I suggest a magic forest spell instead...
When the spell is cast the square where its cast (Capitol or FoL grounding city) The woods there turn to Mallorn (as Lothlorien) which has a 5% to 10% chance to spread to adjacent forest squares (and turn them into Mallorn)

Mallorn:
+5% Attack/defence of elven troops
+5% Attack/defence of all FoL followers

or something like that (could also be that U give all FoL or Elven that do not move from mallorn Arcane XP - ticks).

Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: Sounds interesting, but i seems odd that it effects all civs evenly, unlike most of the spells.Actually, I think Kael meant
Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: All the player's Arcane units gain 1xp per upgraded mana node in the world, all mana nodes revert to raw mana.

ditto Grigori.

_Valis;6244375']Clan of Embers- For the Horde - Orthus? Nah, I will wait till AC goes near 90, then a turn before the spell is build I will raise AC and will claim back[half of it] the Avatars army ]:->

it only converts orcs, not all barbs (haven't seen an avatar in a while, so dunno if his army is orc or not)

I like the feel of them and they all seem appropriate.

Simple question that I can already guess the answer to, but will any of these spells cause you to declare war on everyone? Ie. The current game mechanics would cause major repurcussions for the Lanun or the Sheiam.

I have to agree that the Khazad spell sounds pretty weak when compared with some of the others. Gold never really seems like a problem when I play them, but expansion always is. Maybe they could cast a spell to raise new land within any water that is withing their land...giving them room to expand no matter the stage of the game.

Or, you could do some sort of "underground" thing and maybe grant every city additional tiles to work.

Yeah, once per game only, definitely. Anything more and it'll be rather ugly.

I have an issue with 3 of them though; the Ljosalfar, Mercurian and Sheaim ones.

- The Lojsalfer only creates treants for 3 turns, that's not nearly enough time for you to move those treants to bash cities. You really need to extend it to like 15 turns or so to ranpage and charge the enemy. Plus, I see scripting errors with treants returning to elven cottages, normal cottages or not returning at all.
- The Mercurians: damages demon units? They'll just be damaged, and then they'll heal in two turns because they're in cities, right? You won't have units next to every demon in the world to cleanse them. Sounds very useless.
- Sheaim: less useless, because it does have a second effect. Still, "damages" is pretty useless. "convert" is another matter together. Even glory everlasting is not such a great world project anyway.

I tend to like a Ljos/FoL game and if I were to cast this spell mid game the game would become totally unplayable. Every square I own is wooded... The upkeep would kill me and the CPU time would kill the game.

Note that at least in Fire, Treants don't cost military support.

I like the feel of them and they all seem appropriate.

Simple question that I can already guess the answer to, but will any of these spells cause you to declare war on everyone? Ie. The current game mechanics would cause major repurcussions for the Lanun or the Sheiam.

No, none of the world spells cause war. They are free perks and we don't want to tie disadvantages to them (besides the single use).

Will the Elohim force the player into Peace, or can you do this while still at war with your opponents?

Will there be an option to turn off World Spells? I can already see people whining about how some of them just don't balance right in MP (like "For the Horde" since so few people leave the Barbarian's in the game I guess).

Then again, if World Spells are announced, then they can all just agree not to cast them.

- The Lojsalfer only creates treants for 3 turns, that's not nearly enough time for you to move those treants to bash cities. You really need to extend it to like 15 turns or so to ranpage and charge the enemy. Plus, I see scripting errors with treants returning to elven cottages, normal cottages or not returning at all.

I think the spell is meant to allow them to move their forests around, not to mobilize for war. Of course, for the 3 turns after casting the spell, would they not have a huge penalty? What'd happen if they moved a treant into a city?

Imagine playing Clan of Embers in a raging barb game. Cast for the Horde, just at that time that all players are struggling to hold onto that one or two cities against the horders of barbarians. You'd instantly have the map explored, you'd probably get all the remaining goody huts. You'd have so many units that in a turn or two they'd all disband because your economy would crash down around you. But if you could hold it together for a few turns, you could eliminate most of your rivals from the game.

I'm too worried about Ljosalfar one, but let us see it in action first.

I wonder if sanctuary could be made so that it uses Great Wall graphic while it lasts, but reskinned so that, instead rock solid wall, we see shining aura, like one of Ring of Warding?

I like the concept of them, and Kael already said it will take some balancing, so no stress.

- The Lojsalfer only creates treants for 3 turns, that's not nearly enough time for you to move those treants to bash cities. You really need to extend it to like 15 turns or so to ranpage and charge the enemy.

It's a bit weak offensively, but it makes the Ljosalfar practically invincible defending. For one, they can crush just about any invading army once. Second, in MP, the fact that just about any invading army can be crushed once means that most people probably won't attack them until the spell has been used - and since nobody will do so for as long as the spell hasn't been used, the best case scenario is that just the spell existing will keep the Ljosalfar safe from attack for the whole game.

Hi there. I've only started playing FfH ten days ago. And so far I've only played the Ljos so I can only leave a comment on them.

[...] Every square I own is wooded... [...]

Nah I suggest a magic forest spell instead...
When the spell is cast the square where its cast (Capitol or FoL grounding city) The woods there turn to Mallorn (as Lothlorien) which has a 5% to 10% chance to spread to adjacent forest squares (and turn them into Mallorn)

Mallorn:
+5% Attack/defence of elven troops
+5% Attack/defence of all FoL followers

or something like that (could also be that U give all FoL or Elven that do not move from mallorn Arcane XP - ticks).

Ja. Except for mana nodes and needed ressource mines and a winery every square is wooded. So the only help would be the defence.

I REALLY like the Mallorn idea. A sweet implementation. I have to second that. Maybe even with a golden tree graphic? Sadly I have no real modding skills and therefore no idea how to do this. If I had - I would. :cool:

I also like the idea of gaining extra arcane xp from mallorns if the unit isn't moved. :cool: - Again. ;)

Motherlode would be better off if it gave every khazad mine +3 commerce per turn. So for example a grassland hills mine after motherload would earn 1f3h3c per turn. Maybe +2.

Motherlode would be better off if it gave every khazad mine +3 commerce per turn. So for example a grassland hills mine after motherload would earn 1f3h3c per turn. Maybe +2.
If it worked like that, why would they wait to use the spell?

so I guess thats a no to my earlier post then?

so I guess thats a no to my earlier post then?

Yeah, all the world spells were checked in well before the design contest started.

My two penny...

Most are quite flavoursome and fit, even if not 'powerful enough'. Given they are powerful I'd be surprised if it was possible to cast any of them before the halfway point. given that assumption:

Calabim - Why not just give all vampire units a single free feast promotion no matter what city their in (friend, ally or foe), lets face it thats whats going to happen to the population generated in this way anyway. (Takes out some micro managing)

Clan of Embers - Unless this happens early, this is pretty pointless. Most games, even with raging barbs have few left by mid game.

Doviello - Will the wolves get promotions not normally available if their matching units have them?

Elohim - I think this may be too good for tower and altar victory options.

Infernal - This a once only or will it be recurring? Would be quite annoying/cool if recurring and would force other races to deal with the infernal.

Khazad - Is the 10gp a permanent increase to the mine's economic output, if so Cool! If not I think you'd need to go higher to give a sense of balance

Sheaim - Maybe do more damage to units not in cities or perhaps kill medics and disciples not in cities. (this mechanic might also be applied to the Mercurian spell it would allow for a sudden devastating strike at any targets wandering around, whilst not crippling the entire enemy state - be very annoying though)

The others pretty much fit and sound about right

It's a bit weak offensively, but it makes the Ljosalfar practically invincible defending. For one, they can crush just about any invading army once. Second, in MP, the fact that just about any invading army can be crushed once means that most people probably won't attack them until the spell has been used - and since nobody will do so for as long as the spell hasn't been used, the best case scenario is that just the spell existing will keep the Ljosalfar safe from attack for the whole game.

'twas only a matter of time, nukes getting to FfH that is

Overall they are very creative. Good job guys. Just 2 comments:

I think the Bannor Rally Spell is redundant unless there are changes being made to the Crusade civic. I hope not.

While I have no love for the Infernals, I think Hyborem's Whisper is a good idea if it can be used early upon their entry into the game. Hyborem is pretty vunerable at first. This will help them gain a good foothold. I assume fight them as any other evil civ when I'm in that mode.

Right now the Mercurian spell would not really help that much because it would only help you take down maybe one city. I think it could be better implemented as each demon has a precent chance of dying when the spell is cast so it will Actually help you take down the infernals

Elohim- Sanctuary: Kicks all non-team units out of their borders and makes all non-team unable to enter the players lands for 30 turns

Static 30 turns regardless of game speed?

Overall they are very creative. Good job guys. Just 2 comments:

I think the Bannor Rally Spell is redundant unless there are changes being made to the Crusade civic. I hope not.

While I have no love for the Infernals, I think Hyborem's Whisper is a good idea if it can be used early upon their entry into the game. Hyborem is pretty vunerable at first. This will help them gain a good foothold. I assume fight them as any other evil civ when I'm in that mode.

It was origionally. But the problem that came up in playtesting was that Hyborem would immediatly grab a big ashen veil city which undoubtly belonged to the person who just summoned him. Because of that nobody ever wanted to summon Hyborem. So its been moved back until later in the game.

Static 30 turns regardless of game speed?

I would expect so, seeing as how it's concerned with unit movement...

How are the spells cast? An archmge? Or are they built as a ritual?

These are REALLY interesting, particularly the Sidar and Svaltalfar spells.

The Ljosalfar spell basically cements the synergy between the Ljosalfar and FoL. FoL was the best religion for the Ljosalfar before this, and with this new spell that's even more true -- little or no reason for the Ljosalfar to adopt any other state religion.

How are the spells cast? An archmge? Or are they built as a ritual?

Some have tech requirements, so they wont show up until you have that tech. Some can only be cast by certain units (divine retribution can only be cast by Basium, Hyborems Whisper can only be cast by Hyborem). I think the Amurite spell can only be cast by an arcane unit. Outside of those most spells can be cast by any unit (though a popup does come up warning you if you are about to cast your world spell and telling you that it can only be used once).

Maybe the unit that casts the spell should get the Hero promotion or something?

Will all civs know when a world spell is cast? I see that as the only way to counter the Amurites getting a massive advantage - they will be weakened a bit until nodes are rebuilt.

Amurite, Doviello, Grigori and Lanun look very strong. Bannor and Khazad very weak. Ljosalfar potentially problematic otherwise cool.

I do have concerns that the unit damaging ones will be hard to capitalise on. Perhaps could add X turns without healing also, giving players a chance to make the most of it?

Kuriorates - very boring really, adds no flavour. They are good at that anyway, it will just hasten victory by culture and maybe expand control of settlements slightly. Instead maybe something affecting enemy units within cultural boundaries? That way it could be used as a powerful defensive war spell, which is something they could really use.
i.e. damage to all enemy units within kuriorate cultural boundaries
Or chance of converting enemy units within kuriorate cultural boundaries
Or

Balseraphs is pretty plain, would be more fun to have random effects of some kinda

It's a bit weak offensively, but it makes the Ljosalfar practically invincible defending. For one, they can crush just about any invading army once. Second, in MP, the fact that just about any invading army can be crushed once means that most people probably won't attack them until the spell has been used - and since nobody will do so for as long as the spell hasn't been used, the best case scenario is that just the spell existing will keep the Ljosalfar safe from attack for the whole game.

Yes, it is very good against land blitzkrieg but what about, for example, Tasunke and his pillaging tactics by the swarm of cheap raider horsemen? Even AI is able to use this tactics effectively (in case of long overland border with him or his friend). And what about OO coastal assault from the sea? It is a good defencive feature but not absolute.

Will all civs know when a world spell is cast?yeah.
I find Kurio to be quite useful early one, right as soon as you have your 3rd city, get two border expansions.
Some spells are like that, more useful in early or later game.

Can Hyborem's Whisper be used on capitals too?

I would have loved it if the Balseraph gave the Enraged Promotion to all units in the game (see some nice barbarian hordes really soon :))

Enraged? No, that would mean game over for everyone. Way overpowered, and more helpful to the clan/Infernal/the Barb trait leader of the Doviello than to the Balseraphs.

However, I think it would be very nice for their spell to have a random change to make each unit gain the Crazed promotion. This seems more flavorful, and would have a similar but not as unbalancing effect. It might also be fun for it to give some boost to mutated units, and to sometimes make other civs get golden ages too. Randomness is key.

amurites and khazad spells seem really weak to me

ljosalfar, doviello, elohim, sidar sound way too strong.

To try and cover quickly (and I have no read the whole thread, so if I am repeating, sorry)

Amurites seems the weakest. +1 xp per node, of which there can sometimes be only 6 in the world, is pretty weak. I guess you can use that one ritual to create some, but by the time you can build it you are probably unlikely to need the +10 xp from this spell. Plus they already have an xp-node mechanic, this seems repetitive. Would prefer something like all mages learn a random spell, or straight free level, or something.

Lljoalsfar - not only extremely strong, but imagine how many treants this coudl create.. a nightmare for the person who casted it moving them all

doviello - same, too many units, hopefully str not equal to unit it is based on

elohim - nice idea but 30 turns seems too long, 10-15 more reasonable.. 30 turns can be a very long time lategame

sidar - HN is way too abusable to give it to every single unit they have.

My point with the Doviello and elves is the same feeling I almost always get with the Baron, Hyborem, and Basium.. quite often the units they all generate are just a pain in the ass that I disand immediately. Might have the same effect here, but at least it's only 3 turns.

Sidar don't get Hidden Nationality, they become "Hidden" (aka: invisible until they attack or cast a spell). But the Svartalfar so get to make all their combat units Hidden Nationality, so your objection still stands.

sorry, meant svart.. it's late :)

I think Hidden Nationality is fine since you can no longer use them to rush an empire and conquer it without having to declare war. It also makes your entire army vulnerable to open borders. Its why I stopped building the council of esus unless I was planning on a merc only victory like I've done with some of the financial Civs. The sheer annoyance of your allies or friends killing your own units can't be expounded upon enough.

I'd only support the unit-granting spells if all of those units were made to have 0 upkeep costs.

I just pray that the checks for someone turning HN while on a city square, or sharing a tile with another Civ are working and this spell doesn't cause for a ton of crashes or automatic city captures.

HN units aren't supposed to be able to capture cities any more, so I'm not sure that would be a problem.

Thoughts:

Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: All the players Arcane units gain 1xp per upgraded mana node in the world, all mana nodes revert to raw mana. (Sounds annoying, kind of like Blight. "Oh, look, the Amurites cast Arcane Lacuna, got to build all my mana nodes again.")

Clan of Embers- For the Horde: 50% of the barbarian orc units convert to the Players control. (Do the orc units appear in the Clan capital, or stay where they are?)

Doviello- Wild Hunt: Creates a wolf unit for every combat unit the player controls, the wolfes strength is based on the matching combat units strength (So the Doviello pretty much double their units? Sounds useful. Where do the wolves appear - next to their partner unit, or in the capital?)


Elohim- Sanctuary: Kicks all non-team units out of their borders and makes all non-team unable to enter the players lands for 30 turns (I already have a strategy planned for this one. Elohim + Council of Esus. Sneak attack your opponent, take over as many poorly defended frontier cities as you can in one turn. Then cast Sanctuary just before your opponent launches the inevitable counterattack and spend the next 30 turns fortifying them. I laugh with glee at the thought of it. )

Hippus- Warcry: Grants all combat units +1 strength, blitz, +1 movement and has a 5% chance per turn of wearing off
(each of the effects individually has a 5% chance per turn, or the spell as a whole? Kinda sucks to be a Hippus player whose world spell wears off after 1 turn)

Infernal- Hyborems Whisper: Allows Hyborem to take control of a city with the Ashen Veil religion (Does the Hyborem unit need to be near the city for this or something? Or do you mean the Hyborem player? So this is good for one city per game?)


Khazad- Motherlode: Gives the player 10gp per mine they control (This seems useless. Up it to 100gp and it'd still be one of the worse spells. And it's not like the Khazad are especially powerful already.)


Kuriotates- Legends: Gives a huge culture boost to all the players cities and settlements. (Meh.)

Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: All forests in the players empire turn into Treants for 3 turns, when the Treants die they return to forests in the plot (This seems like a good way to move around forest cover - though that shouldn't be necessary if you've got mages with Bloom and other units who can cut down forests. It could work as a defense solution, though.)


Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: Create a Golden Hammer equipment in each of the players cities (These can't finish Wonders, can they?)

Malakim- Religious Fervor: Creates a priest of the players state religion in each of the players cities with that state religion, these priests start with +1 xp for every city the player has with that religion (seems kind of weak unless the player has a LOT of cities)

Mercurians- Divine Retribution: Does damage to all Undead and Demonic units in the world (Ugh.)

Sheaim- Worldbreak: Does damage to all units in cities, forest fires start around the world (maybe use during a difficult siege or something. I like the idea of Tebryn shattering the entire world just to give his units a leg up in one decisive battle.)

Actually, the Sheaim spell is a nice Anti-FoL/Ljos ability. Especially if they use it just before invading Ljos so that there is no threat of a Treant Swarm by way of March of the Trees :)

As for your question about the Hippus, it is that each unit has a 5% chance per turn of losing the promotion that grants those abilities. I am assuming that it is a single promotion giving all the abilities, and not 3 seperate ones. As such... Yes, some of your units will wind up only getting 1 turn of this effect. If you are rather lucky, a single unit might make it 50 turns without losing the effect.

For the Infernal, I do imagine that the method for selecting the city is that you have to cast it from in, or next to, the city you will take over. And probably only able to cast it with Hyborem himself.

Cool stuff - some of those sound very powerful - especially ones such as the Clan of Embers!

Yeah, all the world spells were checked in well before the design contest started.

guess great minds think alike then ;)

will there be a symbol next to the players name to indicate if they have cast their world speel? or will it just be an event announcement?

Doviello- Wild Hunt: Creates a wolf unit for every combat unit the player controls, the wolfes strength is based on the matching combat units strength

Was this inspired by the movie 'Golden Compass'? I saw it this weekend in the move theatre and really enjoyed it. Very interesting idea with those daimonions as avatar animals.

Huh, is it me or the Bannor spells seems the weaker of the lot ?
Not that good, and economy wrecker.

Don't flame, I may have missed something...

The Bannor and Khazad ones both seem rather weak. The Amurites I think is actually better then many people think, at least the way I play them it would allow me to replace the chaos and death nodes after Govannon learns them (and I build the tower of necromancy).

Amurites: I like this one. Xp is always handy, though I don't like how this is so tied to map size. Also of note here, if you happen to have raiders throughout their land, you could cripple their arcane military production, particularly if they don't start with a decent offensive mana.

Kurio: very useful if you can manage to use during expansion (whether early game or a large conquering spree)

Llos: problematic in a large empire, I think I would change this to only the cultural boundaries of the elven capitol, and maybe the leaves holy city if they have it.

Grigori: Wow,as if the AI had any chance against a human Grigori player before...

Khazad: Could be useful after a conquering spree to get your vault back to overflowing. Honestly Khazad is strong enough that I see no problem with them getting a weak world spell.

Balseraph: It's quite useful, but I agree that it fails to meet the flavor of the race.

Bannor: I would swith this to something like this:

Rally: Gives a 30% chance to give each unit under the players control these promotions: Demon Slaying, Morale, Loyalty, Courage. Each calculated seperately. Also, will create a level 1 hero warrior in their capitol if their racial hero is dead. This hero would start with all 4 promotions.

Lanun, I think maybe something more along the lines of:

Avenging Waters: Reduces the mobility by 1 (minumum of 1) and damages all units currently occupying an ocean or shore tile. (including water walking units, and excluding Lanun units, or ones with OO faith)

each of the effects individually has a 5% chance per turn, or the spell as a whole? Kinda sucks to be a Hippus player whose world spell wears off after 1 turn It gives a one promotion with all the effects to each unit. Each turn, each unit may lose the promotion. But it won't wear off all units at once!

edit: basically what xienwolf said.

The Veil of Night could be problematic. You would probably end up declaring nationality with half your units so that your allies didn't destroy your defences, and even the ones that you didn't declare nationality with would be constantly attakced if you moved them too far away from a unit to hide behind. I can only see it being useful to get huge amounts of XP really quickly for already powerfull units, or living out its usefulness too early in the game.
Of course, if you were alone on a continent with only one other civ that you planned to attack, it would be a great way to weaken their defences, other than that, it doesn't seem like it would be very helpful.

The Veil of Night could be problematic. You would probably end up declaring nationality with half your units so that your allies didn't destroy your defences, and even the ones that you didn't declare nationality with would be constantly attakced if you moved them too far away from a unit to hide behind. I can only see it being useful to get huge amounts of XP really quickly for already powerfull units, or living out its usefulness too early in the game.
Of course, if you were alone on a continent with only one other civ that you planned to attack, it would be a great way to weaken their defences, other than that, it doesn't seem like it would be very helpful.

The Svartlafar don't have allies. If a player does this spell, he must remeber to close borders, or be ready to declare nationality for his defenders.

The Veil of Night could be problematic. You would probably end up declaring nationality with half your units so that your allies didn't destroy your defences, and even the ones that you didn't declare nationality with would be constantly attakced if you moved them too far away from a unit to hide behind. I can only see it being useful to get huge amounts of XP really quickly for already powerfull units, or living out its usefulness too early in the game.
Of course, if you were alone on a continent with only one other civ that you planned to attack, it would be a great way to weaken their defences, other than that, it doesn't seem like it would be very helpful.

It is definitly of little to no defensive use but great on the offense. Unlike the March of the Trees which is exactly the opposite. The Ai will never use Veil of Night when at war (only when its doing well on fighting units and has wants someone to tear into), I assume human players will do the same.

Not to sound critical but, the Khazad spell seems a bit weak, and even if it was something like 100 gold per mine, it would still feel like it's missing something... all the other spells seem to do something completely diffferent. Just getting a gold bonus is like getting a great Merchant.

How about something like this:
When they cast their spell, the Khazad gain a few new gold and gem resources scattered around their cities. It is called Motherload afterall ;)

Not to sound critical but, the Khazad spell seems a bit weak, and even if it was something like 100 gold per mine, it would still feel like it's missing something... all the other spells seem to do something completely diffferent. Just getting a gold bonus is like getting a great Merchant.

How about something like this:
When they cast their spell, the Khazad gain a few new gold and gem resources scattered around their cities. It is called Motherload afterall ;)

That's not anything "new" either...

Here's a proposition:

How about we get the Khazad to actually spend some gold...

Khazad could use their gold to get a chance to disband (smaller chance to turn to their cause) living units currently within their border. They should be able to do this everytime they have the prerequisite gold reserves.(maybe this could increase each time.) Of course, loyalty can defend against it. Also, they shouldn't be able to effect any adherent of an opposing religion...

Amurites: I like this one. Xp is always handy, though I don't like how this is so tied to map size. Also of note here, if you happen to have raiders throughout their land, you could cripple their arcane military production, particularly if they don't start with a decent offensive mana.

They already start with mind mana. That's practically unstoppable.

Honestly Khazad is strong enough that I see no problem with them getting a weak world spell.
I totally agree here. Plus the spell accomplishes one thing that is significant for me: promoting the creation of mines everywhere, not just in the city radii. That's what a dwarven realm should look like!

Have the requirement to cast motherlode be that you have overflowing already, so the sooner you get there the sooner you get to cast the spell. After it's cast it doubles your current gold. So if you hold off on casting it, you get more for your spell. This scales alot better with the size of the map and the space per civilization.

Have the requirement to cast motherlode be that you have overflowing already, so the sooner you get there the sooner you get to cast the spell. After it's cast it doubles your current gold. So if you hold off on casting it, you get more for your spell. This scales alot better with the size of the map and the space per civilization.

That is good. Don't know that you need the requirement of having overflowing though, the fact that it doubles already forces a choice in whether to wait or not.

If this is deemed overpowered it could be a different percentage, such as 50% increase. Its a lot better than the original though!

Hmmmm here's a kind of combination if we still want to promote all the mines - player gets +X% of current treasury, where X is the number of mines he controls.

That's not anything "new" either...


If you're gonna flame just to flame, take it to the troll boards.
You could've easily given your suggestion without your useless sarcasm.
Not that it made sense anyways.

Can you point to any mechanic,spell, whatever that suddenly adds 5-6
resources in your territory?
Yeah, that's what I thought.

Have the requirement to cast motherlode be that you have overflowing already, so the sooner you get there the sooner you get to cast the spell. After it's cast it doubles your current gold. So if you hold off on casting it, you get more for your spell. This scales alot better with the size of the map and the space per civilization.
In my current game as the Khazad I would end up with well over 100,000 gold with a spell like that :eek:. With that I could rush buy an army to take over the entire world while keeping overflowing vaults the whole time.
Ok, with the 50,000+ gold I have the game's already over, the AI just doesn't know it yet. But still...

Suggestion on Khazad spell: let it first create a mine on each hill tile within Khazad borders and then take gold from mines as it is now. It will give more strategy to play IMO.

Suggestion on Khazad spell: let it first create a mine on each hill tile within Khazad borders and then take gold from mines as it is now. It will give more strategy to play IMO.
I don't like this idea at all. I don't think I even need to state the reason.

why ??
automatic construction of some mines ??
that's not a lot, even with the 10g per mine...

or even better : 5g per hill and peak, 5g per mine in the whole civ.
thus : 10g per mined hill, 5g per flatland ressource mine and 5g per peak or un-worked hill or forested hill.
that would be fun :)

Or you could have it give an amount of gold equal to the total amount of gold you will have after you cast the spell. That should give the CPU some troubles. ;)

lol

(10char)

The World Spells seems all very good for gameplay and flavour-wise i have only one doubt for Clan of Embers/For the Horde.
Wouldn't it be unbalanced on raging barb games at the early stages?I would expect Clan of Embers getting tens of units, while other AI struggles building their 4th-5th unit........wouldn't be better if the % of Orcish Barb units becoming CoE units would increase with turns, so that it is not too powerful at the early stages, while not useless at mid/late game.

Just to set my cat amongst the pigeons, how about if Motherlode put a commerce yield (say 3, just to pluck a number out of the air) on all peaks within the Khazad's cultural borders. This may entail a new terrain type though, to make them workable by citizens. I've long wanted some mechanism by which the Khazad could make use of peaks.

My 2p.

The World Spells seems all very good for gameplay and flavour-wise i have only one doubt for Clan of Embers/For the Horde.
Wouldn't it be unbalanced on raging barb games at the early stages?I would expect Clan of Embers getting tens of units, while other AI struggles building their 4th-5th unit........wouldn't be better if the % of Orcish Barb units becoming CoE units would increase with turns, so that it is not too powerful at the early stages, while not useless at mid/late game. But don't forget unit & city maintenance. You're probably going to end up disbanding most of those units, when as barbarians they would have helped more.

As for it being useless late game... yeah, it will. Some are like that.

But don't forget unit & city maintenance. You're probably going to end up disbanding most of those units, when as barbarians they would have helped more.

As for it being useless late game... yeah, it will. Some are like that.

Yes you are right, probably unit & city mainteinance would be so high that you have to disband most of these units you acquired through the spell, it just needs to be tested ;)

Any volunteers? Two days. ;)

lol, you would disband most, but you would still gain an powerful edge of enemies... like doubling your army.

and not sure they would have helped better as barbs... barb don't focus on 1 of your neighbours...

you can focus on building /growth, then launch the spell, get tons of free units and attack...


but mid-late game ... no barbs (or at least no more orcish barbs) so you have a useless spell .. (not an underpowered one, but a useless one .. a bit sad)

What I want to see added to the game is the ability to Gift units to the Barbarians. Then each of the World Spells which grant you more units than you can support can be walked to the nearest surviving Barbarian town and handed over in the hopes they wreak some havoc in your favor.

What I want to see added to the game is the ability to Gift units to the Barbarians. Then each of the World Spells which grant you more units than you can support can be walked to the nearest surviving Barbarian town and handed over in the hopes they wreak some havoc in your favor.

Whenever i play clan of embers i do exactly this. I rush 3 archmages with chaos 3 and start converting my units and enemy units to barbarians and just let them take over the world for me. If you've ever wondered how'd you'd eliminate all rivals without first winning with a different condition this is it. And it's also alot of fun.

My earlier post seems to have been eaten. Forgive me if this is a repeat.
===

I have reservations on the Grigori world spell.

SE is competitive in vanilla. In FFH it's almost a no-brainer. Food is far more common and easier to obtain. Cottages do not mature to the same level. The various doubling wonders and the soon-to-be-added specialist-boosting wonders are just icing on the cake. Even if you don't like the micromanagement required by the SE (and I very much don't) it's so much more powerful in FFH that you can ignore it.

GP production is a major part of that. Resetting the counter is a huge deal. Even if you pop the world spell after just a 6 or 7 GPs, that reduces the cost of all subsequent GPs by 500-600 points. With reasonable timing, the spell is the equivalent of giving all the Grigori leaders Philosophical, only it's a bit better because you can time a big wave of GPs all at once. Once the counter resets, the Grigori player is likely to have lots of cities with several hundred GPP. As soon as the counter resets, GPs are going to start popping as the game cycles through cities until the new threshold nears the prior levels.

Which brings up the question of how overflow is handled on GPs. If it is not loast - whoa momma! Not only will you have a wave of GPs over 1-2 turns, but you'll keep cranking them out for the next several turns. On the other hand, if there is not overflow, the Grigori player will want to micromanage GPP production - keep going with all the cities that will pop before the spell is finished and shut down all the others so GPP aren't wasted, then go back adn reset once the spell goes off.

Even without a GP UU for the Grigori, this would be a wickedly nasty ability.

With the ability to drop the spell right after setting up a GP Adventurer farm that cranks out 50+ GPP and a 80+% chance of Adventurers, it gives the Grigori the ability to pop out a flood of mid game adventurers in the course of about 20-30 turns for a virtual hero-army.

Feel free to see how badly you can break the game with any given world spell when it is released; that's what you're all there for. Over the next few versions they'll be brought under control if found to be ill-concieved.

I think I'll like the Birthright Reclaimed ritual.

Nealhunt brings up a great point though. If your first GP costs you 100 points (total guess), and you cast the spell while one of your cities is at 2300 and there are at least 6 others over the 100 mark... how does the game handle 7 cities ready to pop a GP at once?

My initial assumption would be that it will cycle cities 1 at a time -- starting from the cap maybe? Not sure on that... -- and as they pop out a GP it will raise the number of GPP required for the next one, and move on to the next city.

Now, what happens if they hit the 2300 GPP city, take 100 and give him a GP? Does he now have 2200 and an overflowing meter? Or does he pop out another one for 200 (or whatever), knock down to 2100 and pop another, meaning that you lose a ton of GPP, but get 5 of them immediately in that single city? Or is the other 2200 points simply lost?

And if it won't multi-check the one city, will it take 100, then trim what you have left to be just enough to fill the new meter? Meaning that you lose 1900 GPP completely?

Well I'm fairly sure that the game cycles your cities in the order they are listed. If you open up the manager that displays all your cities, what they are producing and what not I believe thats the order that it will use. Also if a city has 2300 and only need 100 to pop a GP then it will pop and then be reset to 0 as it would in any normal game.

However I'm assuming that resetting the GP counter resets your accumulated value but I guess we will find out tomorrow. Sidar SE ftw <3

I don't know how the spell work but here's how popping great people work, unless it's changed in shadow:
It will start with the first city and end with the last (I think often, but not always, in the order they've been created/conquered). For each city it will create a great person if the threshold is higher than or equal to the number of needed points. It will then remove the number of needed points from the citys total, pop a great person and remove all counters towards specific GPs. In other words you get to keep your overflow but it will be "free" points, not counting towards any specific unit. In rare circumstances this can cause a problem I'll get to later.

When it creates a great person it also increases the threshold. The next city will need that many points to pop a GP.

There is one situation you need to avoid. If you have gathered enough points by using specialists to pop a GP but you do not have anything producing points anymore this can occur:
Turn 1: You use the spell
Turn 2: You get a GP
Turn 3: You still have enough points to pop another GP, only this time you don't have any points towards a specific unit. The result is that you lose the points but don't get a unit! (The GP threshold doesn't increase).

First game I played, AI cast For the Horde on turn 7. I cannot see how that could possibly be in its own best interests.

if you start with barbarian world (or whatever the option's called), casting For the Horde on turn 7 should give it quite a large amount of warriors to start with (def. enough to rush 2 other civs). Not sure if he did this or not though ;-)

if you start with barbarian world (or whatever the option's called), casting For the Horde on turn 7 should give it quite a large amount of warriors to start with (def. enough to rush 2 other civs). Not sure if he did this or not though ;-) As it turns out, that was not the case (only option checked was no tech brokering), but it makes me wonder whether it was set up with that in mind.

A couple of new world spells I could think of:

*Forget: All players loose theirs explored map (or all other players).
*Island: A island is created somewhere in the seas (if there is a big sea in the world, and it will be occupied by many barbarians).

Just played a game with Advanced Start with Kuriotates since I wanted to get into the action sooner and I thought their world spell:

Kuriotates- Legends: Gives a huge culture boost to all the players cities and settlements

was absolute garbage... until I started the game. I started with 3 cities and a couple of workers and was going to have to wait quite a while before I'd be able to improve and work a bunch of absolutely lovely tiles. Then I realized that I could cast the world spell and I did so on turn 2.

1 turn and 300 culture later in each of my cities let me start improving the Gold, Corn, Wheat and Marble and get cracking on a darned fine empire very quickly. One free (non-super) scientist gained from an event later and I started a quick move toward Writing, cottaged up the grasslands on that city and settled the free Super-Scientist for a blazingly fast tech rate that I couldn't have even hoped for without the free 300 culture in each of my cities so early in the game.

I was playing with a 500 BC type economy in 1500 BC and I was loving every minute of it.

that's what the spell is all about, making sure all of your 3rd ring cities can get to work on their full reach asap ;). Really let's you get out with a head start.

Legends should probably scale for game speed too. 300 culture on epic speed is weaker than on normal, although it does still give you the third ring. Unfortunately, if you're fighting a cultural border war, you're still going to need cultural buildings, and if you're playing on a large or huge map, you can't wait around to get 4-5 cities without getting enough culture to expand the borders in the first ones. Would it be too powerful to have the spell add 300 culture and a great bard to all cities?

Is it a raw 300 points or is it multiplied by bonuses from that city buildings?

Without the building multiplication it is a no brainer found your cities asap and cast it, but if it would be modified by bonuses in the city it may be worth to wait till your temples and other bonus buildings are build.

not necessarily - if you are building a bunch of settlements just for resources it could be well worth waiting. Your cities are going to get the culture anyway over time, not too long to 300, but its a huge sum for a settlement. I see it as a great way to secure resources in the mid stages

Some glitch in the martix. Sory for the double-double-double post. Dono what happened.

Didnt know it gave it to settlements too. If yes then that is great and I see your point.

so far have tried 3 games, all with no special options selected except no tech brokering and have seen The Clan Of Embers cast For The Horde on turns 11, 14 and 12. This is very disappointing as all they have a chance at are a few animals and when looking at the map in all 3 games there was never a goblin on warrior to be seen. Maybe this spell needs to be tied to a tech as toslow down its casting and give them a better shot at more uniys.

Just to set my cat amongst the pigeons, how about if Motherlode put a commerce yield (say 3, just to pluck a number out of the air) on all peaks within the Khazad's cultural borders. This may entail a new terrain type though, to make them workable by citizens. I've long wanted some mechanism by which the Khazad could make use of peaks.


Maybe just have it change the Khazad worker specs so they can move to peaks afterwards? Though it would be necessary for the basic mined (or windmilled?) peak, when worked, to be of more use than the upgraded engineer or other specialist it would replace.

Another alternative might be to double the chance of discovering a new mined resource (or more than double*) and/or randomly planting (in hills within your borders) one each of the mined resources you can currently find. This would give you the choice of taking more production and gold early or waiting to make sure you have sources of gunpowder and mithril.
Or just one each, period, and then you'll know you'll have them, which it seems like the Khazad ought to, instead of having the lowest chance to have them, which is the way the Khazad early-game turtle makes the game tend to go now.


* I think this is too low to start, and especially so for a mining race. And I think the Lanun should have a better chance at finding ocean resources (everybody should have some chance), the Ljosalfar forest resources, etc..

Amurites seems the weakest. +1 xp per node, of which there can sometimes be only 6 in the world, is pretty weak. I guess you can use that one ritual to create some, but by the time you can build it you are probably unlikely to need the +10 xp from this spell. Plus they already have an xp-node mechanic, this seems repetitive. Would prefer something like all mages learn a random spell, or straight free level, or something.


I haven't tried my beloved Amurites in shadow yet, but I suspect this will actually be very very powerful. The greatest strength of the Amurites (Dain in particular) is the mage rush; fireball mages stomp all over their contemporaries like no other unit, and the Amurites do it much better than anyone else. Dain can reach sorcery faster than anyone else (with the possible exception of Varn Gosam), he already has fire mana, with the Caves he can churn out a mass of adepts that are already well on their way to magehood, and his firemages get a one-off twincast (which is much more useful than it sounds). This would just make their trip that much faster and their rush that much stronger.
In fact, I suspect that a good way of using it would be to build masses of adepts upon hitting KotE, sagerushing to Sorcery and then using this on the same turn that it's researched, then declaring war the very next turn. I'm interested to try this to see just how early I can get a mass of mages.

The other option would be to race to Sorcery (trading the hell out of KotE, Alteration and Elementalism along the way, so that everyone can build more nodes), delay for a little bit while building the caves and quickly churning out an even bigger horde of halfway-there adepts, then hit the spell and watch everyone else burn.

Another advantage with this: you can make a couple of fire nodes so that all your earlier adepts start with Fire II, then replace them with something else for more longterm benefit after the spell has cleared them.

so far have tried 3 games, all with no special options selected except no tech brokering and have seen The Clan Of Embers cast For The Horde on turns 11, 14 and 12. This is very disappointing as all they have a chance at are a few animals and when looking at the map in all 3 games there was never a goblin on warrior to be seen. Maybe this spell needs to be tied to a tech as toslow down its casting and give them a better shot at more uniys.

They can't get non-orc units, they were probably going for lizardmen from ruins, but I doubt it helps them all that much.

If they could get animals we would finally see the Grand Menagerie in every game ;)

They can't get non-orc units, they were probably going for lizardmen from ruins, but I doubt it helps them all that much.

If they can't get non-orc units and are waiting for the first sighting of a lizardman from a ruins, then it makes even more sense to tie it to a tech(maybe with rantine) so they can get a shot at more units and be more effective in the game.

Feel free to see how badly you can break the game with any given world spell when it is released; that's what you're all there for. Over the next few versions they'll be brought under control if found to be ill-concieved.

If you say so...

I had 16 forests in my starting city's fat cross. By turn 8, I owned Kuriotates' capitol city and picked up Barbatos' staff. It's gonna be a quick game.

On the up side, it was actually an effective way to take out Barbatos finally :).

who were you, what civ ???

as you mention forest I guess you were ljos and used "way of the forest" but maybe not

Yeah, forgot to mention that. It was the Ljosalfar world spell. Unfortunately, the treants didn't turn back into trees where they stopped. But then again, I didn't lose any forests, since they just turn into new forests.

Yvain can be quite nasty with both Nature and Death affinities :P.

Just into my first game, and I've also noted the Clan casting For the Horde quite early. However, I can think of a useful application of this:

If you're seeing lizardmen or orc warriors on your continent, it's likely they are starting to spawn worldwide. If you can nab just some of them, you can have the world explored before anyone else can sail beyond sight of land. This itself gives a few benefits, namely:

You know where the choice land is. You may even luck out and find a few out-of-the-way islands worth settling.

Since you get a research bonus for every civ you encounter that already knows what you're researching, this could give a slight counter to the barbarian research penalty. It's minor, admittedly, but it all helps.

Contact will give you a wider market of potential tech trading partners, which may also help you from being at the back of the tech race.

You may even, with a great deal of luck, circumvent the world and get the sailing range bonus. Normally, it's unlikely you'll be beating anyone to optics.

This would probably be of little or no benefit on a pangea map.

Instead of giving them one AV city, what if it made a certain portion of all world units gain the AV promotion, so as to provide more manes. This way, it could be more strategic, IMO.

The obvious use for the Amurites spell is to win a tower victory with only 1/2 the required nodes.

Is it possible to give the Balseraphs a different world spell? Don't get me wrong, the free golden age is pretty useful, but it just seems kinda bland compared to other world spells...

well balseraph are the less bland civ.. so if they have a world spell less fantastic than other civs.. why not.

You know what would be wicked for Balseraphs as a world spell? :D
Upon casting it would switch randomly the names of cities on the whole world :D

If it had to be something useful [who said it did?] then maybe every player would get a negative diplo modifier "-2:you stole our capitol!" with the player who got its capitol name.

Since you get a research bonus for every civ you encounter that already knows what you're researching, this could give a slight counter to the barbarian research penalty. It's minor, admittedly, but it all helps.

Really? I've never heard of this bonus before.

I wasn't sold on For the Horde until I randomed Sheelba in my current game. I got about 20 warriors, 20 goblins, and 2 lizardmen with it (used a few turns before Orthus spawned) - changed a few civics so I wouldn't have to pay for them for a few turns, and got a nice picture of the map plus met most of the civs in the world. I also got 2 free techs from the tribal villages the barbarians were sitting on. I was doing so well about 30 turns later that the barbarians actually declared war on me because my score had passed the 50% buffer, and this was on an epic speed monarch multiplayer game. I groaned when I saw whom I had randomed, but I think Sheelba is one of my favorite leaders now. :cool:

The obvious use for the Amurites spell is to win a tower victory with only 1/2 the required nodes.

I think it's brilliant, and no one else has mentioned it yet. It does seem obvious enough that it was designed partly for that purpose, but even if you aren't going for a tower victory, it's an extremely powerful spell on larger map types. An average huge map has about 20-30 nodes; if 20 are taken, that's enough xp to catapult a newly-trained adept to archmage level (factoring in cave, command post, etc.). Those are going to be some nasty mages, and if you have the money and techs, archmages/liches/flesh golems. The spell should probably scale based on map size so it's useful on small maps and not overpowered on huge ones.

i can confirm that the ai casts "for the horde" extremely early. On nikis-knights huge erebus map the ai casts it on turn 6 and ended up with 2 lizardmen and 2 goblins, which is pretty much wasted on such a huge map.

Really? I've never heard of this bonus before.

I believe (and will stand corrected if others know better) that the vanilla research mechanism gives you a small beaker discount for every civ you've met that already has the tech. I assume this remains the same.

As for nabbing the lion's share of goody huts, I didn't even think of that! Seems obvious now you've pointed it out.

I believe (and will stand corrected if others know better) that the vanilla research mechanism gives you a small beaker discount for every civ you've met that already has the tech. I assume this remains the same.
No such modifier.

I believe (and will stand corrected if others know better) that the vanilla research mechanism gives you a small beaker discount for every civ you've met that already has the tech. I assume this remains the same.

As for nabbing the lion's share of goody huts, I didn't even think of that! Seems obvious now you've pointed it out.

That was actually a mod, I hated that tech leaking mod xD

it was not a tech leaking..

it was standad in vanilla civ.
you didn't get beakers for the other civs that knew a tech.
the cost is reduced.. that's all.

(thus, backward civ could learn a bit faster than more advanced civs.)

Would it be possible for each civ to have two world spells? It might be interesting if there was one that was moderatly powerfull but wasn't dependent on progress in the game, and the current ones, but you could only cast one of them. That way, you can choose to use the worldspell that does not scale to progress in the game for an early boost, or you can wait a while and hoope that you can use the more powerful one while it still would matter (i.e before you get in doublewin)

_Valis;6272279']You know what would be wicked for Balseraphs as a world spell? :D
Upon casting it would switch randomly the names of cities on the whole world :D

If it had to be something useful [who said it did?] then maybe every player would get a negative diplo modifier "-2:you stole our capitol!" with the player who got its capitol name.

Or how about this: all diplo modifiers for all opponents, positive or negative, switch randomly, causing mass chaos as alliances turn on each other and sworn enemies become best pals.

Heck, I'd even like to see a balseraph world spell that harms them more than having the only bland spell...

Balseraph randomly shifting all world diplomacy would be an awesome mechanic :) I'd say have it break all Vassal, Defensive Pact, Open Borders and whatnot, but not be able to force new ones. Then reset all Diplo mods to 0 and apply a new modifier "Hey, I saw a Play about you! <Apply Random value from -30 to +30>"


Also, pretty sure that Tech Bleed is still in the game. Saw some information about it on another forum (BUG?) talking about making it actually visible how much you were gaining/losing in the tech race to each person. And it isn't actual beakers applied to resource, it is a reduction in your total cost (or a percentage bonus to beakers you apply... can't recall which).

I'm playing an Arboria map currently, from what I recall the Clan did not cast their world spell until around turn 250.

Also, Acheron is HELL on an arboria map. But at least he got rid of all the jungles, :D.

I think the problem with the clan spell is the way the ai is set to use it. Basically, the ai won't use it untill there are 60 barbarian units. but considering that at that time, about 50% of barb units are animals and about 25% are skeletons, they only get about 1/8 of the total barbs, and they will only get about 7 or so, and if you factor in the fact that barrows are more common than ruins then they probably get around 3

Just played the Kuriorates and surrounded the Dovieloo who were trapped on a penninsula. I founded my city hubs and then cast my spell, and reduced the only Doviello city to being surrounded by my culture. It was awesome, but sort of unbalancing. With one turn I effectivly destroyed the enemy, but now must figure out how to destroy them.....

I think the problem with the clan spell is the way the ai is set to use it. Basically, the ai won't use it untill there are 60 barbarian units. but considering that at that time, about 50% of barb units are animals and about 25% are skeletons, they only get about 1/8 of the total barbs, and they will only get about 7 or so, and if you factor in the fact that barrows are more common than ruins then they probably get around 3

Ah, that is important... the ai on the spell was set to fire when they thought they could get 20 units, but maybe it accidently takes non-orcs into consideration...

Ah, that is important... the ai on the spell was set to fire when they thought they could get 20 units, but maybe it accidently takes non-orcs into consideration...

It does. It waits for the barb player to have 60 units, regardless of what they are. Having it go through and count the amount of units that are orcs would add significant processor cost (where just pulling the unit count is already available).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.

It does. It waits for the barb player to have 60 units, regardless of what they are. Having it go through and count the amount of units that are orcs would add significant processor cost (where just pulling the unit count is already available).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.
I think the guess is pretty far off though, considering that he's casting it on turn 8-20 in most games on normal speed, well before orcs really start spawning.

well, but a human player would still wait to have less animals in the surrounding

Balseraph randomly shifting all world diplomacy would be an awesome mechanic :) I'd say have it break all Vassal, Defensive Pact, Open Borders and whatnot, but not be able to force new ones. Then reset all Diplo mods to 0 and apply a new modifier "Hey, I saw a Play about you! <Apply Random value from -30 to +30>"

So that Basium and Hyborem could end up best of friends? What a scary thought. :lol:

I've just witnessed Raging Seas for the first time, and I must admit, the AI used it pretty well.

I'm the Svartalfar, and the Lanun are my long-term friends and fellow Undercouncil members. Following a council vote, we're now all at war with Alexis. However, I happen to be busy launching an amphibious invasion of Sabathiel at the time.

Of course, Hannah (demented sea witch that she is) thinks this is the perfect time to cast Raging Seas. All I can say is: OUCH! Lost most of my garrison in my only captured Bannor city. Luckily most of my invasion force are pretty tough, so survived (albeit half-drowned), and my ships were in port. On the plus side, the entire bannor northern fleet was blockading outside the city. A couple of meteors later, and they're wiped.

Just to add insult to injury, she did this the turn the following Blight (which may or may not have been caused by me putting a population 16 Bannor city to the torch - I deny everything).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.

We're not exactly suggesting that you cheat for the AI...Though maybe you should, since they do badly enough, as it is. But is there a way to code it so that they don't cast the spell until they've seen barbarian warriors, at the very least?

We're not exactly suggesting that you cheat for the AI...Though maybe you should, since they do badly enough, as it is. But is there a way to code it so that they don't cast the spell until they've seen barbarian warriors, at the very least?

How about just have the AI wait, say, a minimum of 50 turns before casting it on normal speed?

I wasn't sold on For the Horde until I randomed Sheelba in my current game. I got about 20 warriors, 20 goblins, and 2 lizardmen with it (used a few turns before Orthus spawned).
On a semi-related note, I used the "Righteous Cause" spell last game. This isn't a world spell but just a regular spell available to high level Order Priests. But it brings you units at the cost of the caster's life. I've always been reluctant to use it because who wants to sacrifice a high level unit. But I desperately needed more troops so I tried it -- I ended up with 24 Crusaders. Those aren't low level unit they are strength 7 infantry. That saved my bacon and I think that sacrifice was ultimately responsible for my win. Not sure what controls how many units show up -- it would be nice if it was based on the caster's experience level. Civilopedia says something about units coming from your opponent's unhappy citizens so maybe Tebryn was just not treating his citizens well ;-)

As far as World Spells go, I'm a bit worried that some of them can temporarily unhinge your economy. I was playing Doviello, and there World Spell creates a Wolf for each of your units, so it basically doubles the number of units you have. I can imagine if you're already paying high support costs for units that could really send you over the edge.

Anyway, the World Spells were a great idea and a very nice addition to FFH.

As far as World Spells go, I'm a bit worried that some of them can temporarily unhinge your economy. I was playing Doviello, and there World Spell creates a Wolf for each of your units, so it basically doubles the number of units you have. I can imagine if you're already paying high support costs for units that could really send you over the edge.

try the Ljos for economy wrecking spells ;) . It'll win you a war easily enough, but at the cost of -1 food on almost every tile in your empire for quite a long time. Not to mention bringing your science to a standstill for 5 turns.

I've read this whole thread. Unfortunately there was only one mention at Basium's Shieety world spell. It truly is shitty. I assume Civ's with demons will just wait a couple of turns to heal damaged units. Unless like it was said earlier...unless the mercurians can muster enough units in multiple citys to make the spell worth it. Though the circumstances in which Basium comes in the game, it usually means, he won't have the manpower to stage a multiple invasion of cities to take advantage of his world spell.. BTW Bannor spell still sucks, Balseraph randomly switching city names around the world is freaking awesome.

I've read this whole thread. Unfortunately there was only one mention at Basium's Shieety world spell. It truly is shitty.
I'm pretty sure that spell actually insta-kills Hyperborian, which is pretty handy, although admittedly almost exclusively targeted toward one specific enemy. I know I was playing a game with the Infernals sitting on my border looking all nasty with their hero Hyperborian in particular looking unassailable, Basium showed up and shortly thereafter Hyperborian was gone. Others have also reported insta-killing him with Basium's world spell. So if your objective in bringing in Basium is to stop the infernals that spell actually seems to work fairly well. Definitely not as general purpose as the other spells though.

I'm pretty sure that spell actually insta-kills Hyperborian, which is pretty handy, although admittedly almost exclusively targeted toward one specific enemy. I know I was playing a game with the Infernals sitting on my border looking all nasty with their hero Hyperborian in particular looking unassailable, Basium showed up and shortly thereafter Hyperborian was gone. Others have also reported insta-killing him with Basium's world spell. So if your objective in bringing in Basium is to stop the infernals that spell actually seems to work fairly well. Definitely not as general purpose as the other spells though.

So that still supports the theory that the spell is bad....

If the spells only real use is to kill Hyborem then it is serverely overpowered and can get very annoying if you are playing as Hyborem, but if Hyborem is never summoned the spell is almost pointless. And with Hyborem rarely spawning and if he does he has a bad enough start that he can easily be killed with conventional means anyway.

So in effect the spell is bad becuase it has one specific target which could also be accomplished by any other civ through conventional means.

A better solution for the spell would be to target all ashen veil civs or maybe evil civs in general by damaging their units and maybe cuase unhappiness in all cities belonging to evil civs....

"For the Horde" effectively breaks Terra maps; for me, at least. The AI Clan gets lizardmen and other units in the 'New' World, giving them decades or centuries to explore it. Part of the allure of this map is being among the first to find and explore (and settle) the New World.

Along these lines, I feel it illogical for this world spell to be effective on continents where the Clan has no presence. Perhaps this spell should be limited to those landmasses where the Clan either has cities or, at least, has a unit.

Basium's world spell kills roughly half of the liches, demons etc. It single handely stopped my shieam army and forced me to GIVE gold to make peace to avoid a counter attack that would have crushed me.

perhaps basium's world spell could give all his units blessed, and another promotion with +20% str, +30% vs demons
(having a counter for sheaim units would not be fun, just like playing hyborem and fighting basium in previous versions, a hopeless battle)

or have it work vs AV civs, and once more vs demonic units, at half strength

"For the Horde" effectively breaks Terra maps; for me, at least. The AI Clan gets lizardmen and other units in the 'New' World, giving them decades or centuries to explore it. Part of the allure of this map is being among the first to find and explore (and settle) the New World.

Along these lines, I feel it illogical for this world spell to be effective on continents where the Clan has no presence. Perhaps this spell should be limited to those landmasses where the Clan either has cities or, at least, has a unit.

While a good suggestion to limit the spell, i don't think that would work. It would make the spell very underpowered on smaller landmass maps such as islands...

It does. It waits for the barb player to have 60 units, regardless of what they are. Having it go through and count the amount of units that are orcs would add significant processor cost (where just pulling the unit count is already available).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.
How about just not counting animals (using the counter in CvArea)?

Admittedly this is based off 0 games of Shadow, but how about making the Khazad Motherlode DOUBLE the gold of the Khazad civ?

I think this way it scales better - it gives an incentive to wait in order to reap more return, and doesn't constrict the player's build choices.

Admittedly this is based off 0 games of Shadow, but how about making the Khazad Motherlode DOUBLE the gold of the Khazad civ?

I think this way it scales better - it gives an incentive to wait in order to reap more return, and doesn't constrict the player's build choices.

If you double their gold it would be a little too powerfull, they wouldn't have anything to spend that much gold on except rushing any wonders they wanted even the ones that would allow them to win the game.

Game balance is greatly overrated :crazyeye: glad to see the FfH team agree. Here are some random thoughts of mine.

Amurites- Arcane Lacuna: Seems particularly weak to me, if they have been unlucky finding nodes its doubly weak. How about have it randomly create new nodes within the Amurites borders.

Balseraphs- Revelry: Feels OK.

Bannor- Rally: Fits in with the Bannor theme, should probably be cast as soon as possible.

Calabim- River of Blood: Fairly subtle, is this powerful enough?

Clan of Embers- For the Horde: This can range from completely overpowered to totally useless depending on map options. But fits in nicely with flavour.

Doviello- Wild Hunt: Feels fairly balanced with Rally.

Elohim- Sanctuary: Nice flavour, should scale to game speed.

Grigori- Ardor: I like it, I assume only the Grigori’s counter gets reset.

Hippus- Warcry: Could be devastating in a quick crowded map. Should the ware off rate be lower on slower maps?

Illians-

Infernal- Hyborems Like it, you give Mercurians a city but Hyborem just takes it. It can be irritating if playing Sheaim, however Hyborem is your ally you should be happy for him to have a nice city.

Khazad- Motherlode: Not sure this is good enough and should scale to game speed. How about mines +1 Gold, or create earth elementals form mines which turn into hills after three turns :crazyeye:

Kuriotates- Legends: Should scale to game speed. If your playing Kuriotates your likely going for a cultural victory so... Maybe should be a percentage increase with a floor that ensures reaching the third ring.

Lanun- Raging Seas: Need to see this in action. Could insist on sailing or something, but I don’t think killing a few cives on turn one is that unbalancing. Its equally beneficially to all the reaming civs. You could after all have just started with less opponents when setting up the map.

Ljosalfar- March of the Trees: Interesting, nice flavour. Motivates elves to stay true to their heritage, but is it too strong for the Ljosalfar?

Luchuirp- Gifts of Nantosuelta: Knock up four or five wonders in a couple of turns, looks ok.

Malakim- Religious Fervor: Compared to the other unit spamming spells, less units but better. Favours bigger maps.

Mercurians- Divine Retribution: This should not kill Hyborem outright, but it should make Hyborem be cearful. If so it looks under powered compared with the other spells, but what is Basium here for - clue its not to win the game.

Sheaim- Worldbreak: Nice flavour but does the AI have any chance of using this sensibly?

Sidar- Into the Mist: I guess we should take the sidar and svartalfar as baseline spells?