3 - pressing engagement??? :confused:
Just a figure of speech. I moved the elephant into Utica, giving it a promo for the hp, and whipped an archer. With three defenders in the city the MM stack retreated without attacking.

Okay, turnset played. 15 turns. Here is the save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Fifth_Element_SG006_AD0620_01.CivWarlordsSave)

1) The Mansa Musa mini-stack retreated back into MM-land without attacking after I bolstered Utica's defenses. However, it's back, and I redirected some defenders to Utica to handle it. It shouldn't be a problem.

2) I pillaged heavily in MM and Hannibal territory throughout the TS. A single chariot is wreaking havoc around Kumbi Saleh, which is defended by only two skirmishers and apparently unwilling to attack our Chariot. If it's eventually killed, oh well, it's destroyed like 2 villages, a hamlet, and a plantation so far. We've also played havoc on MM's roads and trade routes. All that pillaging helped paid for our research, which saw Sailing, Medi, and MC come in. I put several turns into Calendar.

3) Finding Sparta heavily defended with 7 archers and walls, and with our stack not exactly healthy, I elected to wait and build up a nice stack before attacking. Now we've got a fairly nice stack, with more cats on the way. Also, in the last 2 turns, 3 archers have abandoned the city to try to escort a settler. I have moved the stack south to intercept it on its likely path.

Additionally, 2 Carthaginian archers parked themselves on on the mine near York. I took a new Catapult in York and killed one, and risked one of York's archers @30% to kill the other before it could pillage. I actually won that fight, so no damage done, except a couple of wounded units.

4) On the domestic front: Athens built its courthouse, and i am chopping for its library, as its border pop is the first priority. We discovered Copper in a mine near London for an extra 2 hammers :). It's building a forge, as is York. Workers have improved much around Corinth, as that city should come online very quickly and help our flailing economy. On the bright side we're breakeven at 20% research now :).

Here's the autolog.
Turn 193/660 (395 AD) [12-Jan-2008 16:46:08]
York finishes: Chariot

Turn 194/660 (410 AD) [12-Jan-2008 16:48:30]
Utica begins: Archer (8 turns)
War Elephant promoted: Combat III
While attacking in English territory at Corinth, War Elephant defeats (5.36/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
London finishes: War Elephant
Utica finishes: Archer

Turn 195/660 (425 AD) [12-Jan-2008 16:52:15]
London begins: Catapult (5 turns)
A Farm was built
Tech learned: Sailing
London grows: 6

Turn 196/660 (440 AD) [12-Jan-2008 16:56:31]
Research begun: Meditation (3 Turns)
While attacking in Greek territory near Utica, War Elephant defeats (5.36/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Mine was built near Corinth
A Cottage was built near Athens

Turn 197/660 (455 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:01:02]

Turn 198/660 (470 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:05:39]
A Camp was built near York
Tech learned: Meditation
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 199/660 (485 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:08:30]
Research begun: Monotheism (6 Turns)
While attacking in English territory near Kerkouane, War Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Research begun: Metal Casting (6 Turns)
London finishes: Catapult

Turn 200/660 (500 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:34:51]
London begins: Catapult (5 turns)
A Camp was built near York
Utica grows: 3
Athens finishes: Courthouse

Turn 201/660 (515 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:37:20]
Athens begins: Library (20 turns)
A Farm was built near Corinth
Athens begins: Trireme (11 turns)
Athens begins: Library (20 turns)
York grows: 7

Turn 202/660 (530 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:42:42]
York finishes: Courthouse

Turn 203/660 (545 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:45:57]
York begins: Catapult (5 turns)
A Cottage was built near Athens
Tech learned: Metal Casting
London finishes: Catapult

Turn 204/660 (560 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:48:14]
Research begun: Calendar (14 Turns)
London begins: Forge (13 turns)
London grows: 7

Turn 205/660 (575 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:51:32]

Turn 206/660 (590 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:53:21]
A Mine was built near Corinth
York finishes: Catapult
Corinth grows: 4

Turn 207/660 (605 AD) [12-Jan-2008 17:55:33]
York begins: Forge (13 turns)
Catapult promoted: Combat I
Catapult promoted: Combat II
While attacking in English territory at York, Catapult defeats (0.75/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 70.0%)
While attacking in English territory at York, Archer defeats (0.36/3): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 30.6%)

Turn 208/660 (620 AD) [12-Jan-2008 18:00:15]
Archer promoted: City Garrison II

risked one of York's archers @30% to kill the other before it could pillage. I actually won that fight, so no damage done, except a couple of wounded units.
Woot! It's a pity we're losing cats and elees, but at least we're keeping... archers :dubious: ;) .

Sounds like a good TS, I'll check the save later. :goodjob:

Screenies? :D

Graph gazing:
Most teams seem to be ahead of us in score, with CRC's lead being terrifying
CRC lost a lot of power recently. Could be that they're fighting a lot too.

Screenies:
Sparta:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/sparta0000.jpg
North Territory:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/north_territory0000.jpg
Carthage:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/carthage0001.jpg
South MM:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/mm_south0000.jpg
North MM:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/mm_north0000.jpg

Good one Civ, let's hope you changed your relation with the RNG.
Good SS, i almost didn't see what i unvealed in my TS.
Don't forget to always keep 2 units in the cities, we're not safe, except perhaps in London.

I remember that the GW double GG XPs for combats inside our borders, and we fought a good number.

Merum, time to apply your strategy if you're still convinced.
Anyway, next GG in another production city and the trick is almost done.

Graph:
surely CRC is doing well, and i'm not too concerned by other teams higher score or power: in the long run the Oracle should pay.
When we decided that strategy, we was thinking to the mid game, we're still on the early (i hope).

I still feel that my proposed strategy is the best course of action.

I believe that the switch to MC before Mono was a mistake. What I didn't state before, regretfully, is that I think we should have gone to monotheism first, and switched into OR. Once in OR, we could have built at least some of our forges 25% faster, and also cranked out the missionaries for our target production cities.

At this point, we need to switch research to mono, because if we continue to research calendar at this rate, we will run out of research money unless we capture a city or have really good pillaging results, and it's getting to a point where there's not much left to pillage.

It was a good move on Civ's part to pull the stack back and allow some archers to leave. Next player needs to be sure to mug that settler stack.

We should compile a list of cities and what we want to do with them at this point:

Keepers: Carthage, Djenne, Hadrumetum

Maybes: Sparta, Timbuktu

Raze: Kumbi Saleh, Gao, Kerkouane, Saxon, Hurrian

Then we're going to hit a fork in the road. I have little doubt that we can take down the remaining civs on our continent. What my primary concern is at this point is that by the time we meet the others, we will be so backwards that they will roll us. We're going to have to find a way to keep up in research so that we don't find ourselves an age behind.

EDIT: Remember last SGOTM when CRC disbanded a bunch of their units just prior to the win, driving down their power graph. If we see that sort of pattern again, it's time to worry, I think.

There are at least 3 civs we have yet to meet, and my spidey sense tells me that we're looking at Rome, Inca, and Spain.

Finally, IMO, we must find those other civs as quickly as possible. Somebody is already at Theology, and the strategy of "hoping for an AI war" is, IMO, hopelessly flawed. We shouldn't trust or hope for anything we cannot directly control. What I see when I look at the graphs is that CRC whipped out military as quickly as possible, took control of their continent, and is likely looking to wage intercontinental war at this point. I still feel that we are way behind where we should be. There are at least 5 teams ahead of us, and some of them even ahead of CRC. I don't like being the doomcrier, but I don't think we should be patting ourselves on the back. Always War isn't a game of long-run tactics.

Keepers: Carthage, Djenne, if it has at least one dye plantation intact, Timbuktu, if it still has both banana's intact.

Or Djenne and Timbuktu if we have calendar & enough workers.

We can wait, but Saxons is worth keeping, IMO.
For the Malinese cities can be OK, we have at least 2 TSs to decide.

Roster:
Sweetacshon - up
Merum - on deck
Greatbeyond
Blubmuz
Civicide - resting

Ahh... the roster! Well, I have it. I won't have time to lay until tomorrow night (fingers crossed), but can probably put my plan forward in the morning. One thing I will say now is:
Keepers: Carthage, Djenne, Hadrumetum

Maybes: Sparta, Timbuktu

Raze: Kumbi Saleh, Gao, Kerkouane, Saxon, Hurrian
I don't think we should keep Hadrumetum or Sparta.

I list Hadrumetum as a keeper because it has the wineries. If in fact we can get the benefit of these wines without having monarchy as Blubmuz says (I didn't know this before and haven't verified it). Also, it appears to be a cultural bridge to another landmass. It may just be an island, but it may be the path to other civs as well. There's another set of trees in the fog of the Carthage coast.

It and Sparta are also coastal, and we're going to need cities to build navy.

I list Hadrumetum as a keeper because it has the wineries. If in fact we can get the benefit of these wines without having monarchy as Blubmuz says (I didn't know this before and haven't verified it). Also, it appears to be a cultural bridge to another landmass. It may just be an island, but it may be the path to other civs as well. There's another set of trees in the fog of the Carthage coast.

It and Sparta are also coastal, and we're going to need cities to build navy.

You get the improvement benefit, but not the :)

That's what i meant.

Not much to add, except

Kill'em, kill'em all!!!

And if we keep those cities, courthouses are precious ;)

The way forward is fairly obvious. Take out Alex's settler stack, crush Sparta 300 times or whatever happened, I'm a little vague on the historical details.. and move onto Carthage.

Questions:
Do we keep sparta? I know we need a port over there, but the production certainly isn't good, nor is it ideal for cottaging or food. So, for what reason should we keep it
Is it worth doing the OR thing? I count about 700 :hammers: that need to be used on courts, forges, grans, and libs where applicable to city types, 900 if you count monuments (see next point). This, of course, will increase if we keep Sparta or if we get Carthage in time, so take it as a minimum. 1/5 of 700 is 140 :hammers: (180 with mons) which is the +25% OR bonus, the cost being about 50 :hammers:, our current output lost during 1 turn of anarchy. Seems worth it to me. I'd like to switch research now (build units in the meantime), go to OR and get the buildings done, then get into "Merum's XP Plan"tm.
Monuments? We get a +1:) charismatic bonus for a mere 45 :hammer monument. Too easy. The trouble is that calendar obsoletes them, so we have to get them in before calendar comes in.

I can play tonight.

I think Sparta in the near term is not as worthwhile as Hadrumetum, so if I had to choose, I would choose Hadrumetum and the possible culture bridge over keeping Sparta. We already have horses elsewhere.

I also think OR is the way to go until our infrastructure is built out. Did you figure the required missionaries into your count?

I think is better raze Sparta and keep Hadrumetum.
Yes, i think is better build some structure, and OR will be of help.
Take count of another turn of anarchy, and that we must choose a religion (hindu or confu? this is the question)and convert the cities without that religion.
This is necessary also for Merum's XP plan (tm)
Not sure, but i think that when monument obsoletes, the :) goes away.
Can anyone verify?
Anyway we're plenty of calendar resources, i don't think :) is a problem.

Here you go, team. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Fifth_Element_SG006_AD0845_01.CivWarlordsSave)

The short of it is that we're in OR and confucian, and while we researched mono, a few more cats were made, then it was back to forges, etc. The plan to get monuments in before Calendar is going ok, but Corinth, iirc is lagging, so we may have to chop... or whatever. I didn't pop the GP yet, it didn't seem worth it if OR is being used for the moment. We actually probably have enough to take out Hannibal, and maybe MM from what I've seen, with the units we have now, plus a few more cats :D

Sparta (after a long internal debate) is no more, and Carthage is ours. Kerk is under siege and should fall in a turn or 2, and as soon as the stack heals in Carthage, it can move onto Hadrum..

We have just the 1 trireme out at the moment, moving north up the west coast... with nothing yet. What we need to discuss, imo, is techs. We arte going for calendar (although happiness is not an issue), but what next? Lit for the HE, CS/machinery, compass, monarchy, turn science off and pump units?

New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 208/660 (620 AD) [16-Jan-2008 22:34:53]
Research begun: Monotheism (5 Turns)
Corinth begins: Catapult (7 turns)
London begins: Catapult (4 turns)
York begins: Catapult (5 turns)
Utica begins: Axeman (13 turns)
User comment: Dropped the slider to 50% and switched to Monotheism.

Turn 209/660 (635 AD) [16-Jan-2008 22:43:26]
Catapult promoted: Combat III
While attacking in the wild near Sparta, Axeman defeats (4.35/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in the wild near Sparta, War Elephant defeats (4.48/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Cottage was built near Corinth
User comment: Alex's settlr + 2 archer stack is no more, notch up another free worker!
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
While defending in Carthaginian territory near Hadrumetum, Axeman defeats (4.20/5): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 90.1%)
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 210/660 (650 AD) [16-Jan-2008 22:53:38]
User comment: Hannibal wastes a cat on our forest dwelling axe - now it's up to CR3 :D
Axeman promoted: City Raider III
York begins: War Elephant (7 turns)
Chariot promoted: Combat I
User comment: MM causes more hassles by turnig his stack NW toward York, and we pursue him.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0005-2.jpg
Athens finishes: Library
A Hamlet was built near Athens
While defending in English territory near Utica, Chariot loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (0.80/4) (Prob Victory: 39.8%)
While defending in English territory at Corinth, Worker loses to: Greek Archer (3.00/3) (Prob Victory: 60.2%)

Turn 211/660 (665 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:03:40]
Athens begins: Trireme (11 turns)
While attacking in English territory at Corinth, Axeman defeats (4.35/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
User comment: Oh man :smoke: I lose a worker to a Greek archer. Damn AI pathfinding! From now on it's one tile at a time.
London finishes: Catapult
Utica grows: 4

Turn 212/660 (680 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:10:59]
While attacking in English territory near Utica, War Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
While attacking in English territory near Utica, Chariot defeats (2.48/4): Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 59.1%)
War Elephant promoted: Combat IV
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
War Elephant promoted: Combat II
A Pasture was built near Utica
A Cottage was built near Corinth
User comment: MM is at York's gates.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0006-2.jpg
User comment: The bombardment of Sparta begins.
Tech learned: Monotheism
York finishes: War Elephant
A Camp was destroyed near York

Turn 213/660 (695 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:17:29]
Research begun: Calendar (10 Turns)
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
War Elephant promoted: Combat II
While attacking in English territory at York, War Elephant loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (1.00/4) (Prob Victory: 93.1%)
While attacking in English territory near Utica, Axeman defeats (3.60/5): Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
Chariot promoted: Medic I
While attacking in English territory near Utica, Chariot defeats (3.24/4): Malinese Warrior (Prob Victory: 94.0%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Sparta, War Elephant defeats (6.24/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 93.6%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Sparta, War Elephant defeats (6.80/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 94.4%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Sparta, War Elephant defeats (1.60/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 87.5%)
York begins: Catapult (6 turns)
Corinth begins: Catapult (60 turns)
User comment: I'm sitting here looking at an ele about to spike the final Greek archer, and it seems so much easier to make decisions when you aren't the TP. Oh well... let it burn! Goodbye, Alex.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0007-2.jpg
While attacking in Greek territory at Sparta, War Elephant defeats (5.60/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 96.0%)
Hinduism has spread: Sparta
Captured Sparta (Alexander)
Greek Empire has been eliminated
Razed Sparta
Sparta lost
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 214/660 (710 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:31:33]
While attacking in English territory at York, War Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Malinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 97.1%)
War Elephant promoted: Combat IV

Turn 215/660 (725 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:36:36]
While attacking in English territory at York, Chariot defeats (4.00/4): Malinese Skirmisher (Prob Victory: 85.3%)
User comment: York is free from attackers. The victorious army regroups for Carthage.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg

Turn 216/660 (740 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:42:30]
Chariot promoted: Medic II
Utica begins: Axeman (8 turns)

Turn 217/660 (755 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:49:14]
London finishes: Forge
York grows: 6
Athens finishes: Trireme

Turn 218/660 (770 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:52:45]
London begins: Confucian Missionary (3 turns)
Athens begins: Monument (7 turns)
A Cottage was built near Utica
While attacking in English territory near York, War Elephant defeats (2.40/8): Malinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 98.9%)
User comment: OR is in full swing, and our first trireme goes searching.
London grows: 8
A Hamlet was built near Athens

Turn 219/660 (785 AD) [16-Jan-2008 23:57:48]
War Elephant promoted: Combat IV
Athens begins: Work Boat (7 turns)
Utica finishes: Courthouse
Athens's borders expand
Athens finishes: Work Boat

Turn 220/660 (800 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:01:20]
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Utica begins: Monument (7 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Athens
State Religion Change: Churchill(England) from 'no State Religion' to 'Confucianism'

Turn 221/660 (815 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:05:44]
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Axeman defeats (2.00/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 94.8%)
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
Utica grows: 5
While defending in Malinese territory at Timbuktu, Chariot loses to: Malinese Catapult (1.20/5) (Prob Victory: 35.0%)

Turn 222/660 (830 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:11:12]
London begins: Monument (2 turns)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Catapult loses to: Carthaginian Swordsman (2.94/6) (Prob Victory: 24.7%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Catapult defeats (1.40/5): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 72.1%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, War Elephant defeats (4.16/8): Carthaginian Spearman (Prob Victory: 95.6%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, War Elephant defeats (1.28/8): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Catapult loses to: Carthaginian Catapult (2.00/5) (Prob Victory: 68.3%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Catapult defeats (3.30/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 95.1%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Catapult defeats (1.20/5): Carthaginian Swordsman (Prob Victory: 96.1%)
A Pasture was built near Athens
London begins: Confucian Missionary (3 turns)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Carthage, Chariot defeats (4.00/4): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
Hinduism has spread: Carthage
Captured Carthage (Hannibal)
Carthage begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
User comment: Carthage is ours, with the loss of 2 cats.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0009-2.jpg
London finishes: Monument

Turn 223/660 (845 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:23:20]
While attacking in Carthaginian territory near Carthage, Axeman defeats (3.05/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0010-2.jpg
Chariot promoted: Medic II

edit
While attacking in English territory at York, War Elephant loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (1.00/4) (Prob Victory: 93.1%)
Awww... come on. Worse is that I had to whip it out of York, as I was feeling uncomfortable about having so many cats and skirmishers around. *sigh* Btw, Merum, I am fairly certain those are islands off the east coast, and that we won't need culture to get to them. Perhaps it'll need a city on the island, though... who knows?

It's funny how CRC's power graph kinks. Did they find another continent? Murky is averaging 10 posts a turn. Ludicrous.

Roster:
Sweetacshon - dead
Merum - up
Greatbeyond
Blubmuz
Civicide

While defending in English territory at Corinth, Worker loses to: Greek Archer (3.00/3) (Prob Victory: 60.2%)

I'm so mad we didn't win that battle :D

Good work Sweet!

Can someone shoot some screens of the major cities? I'm trying to wrap my hands around the cash pinch here. As soon as the continent is all English I have doubts we'll be solvent still. What's the root cause? WW? Lack of commerce tiles able to be worked?

This is a similar problem to when you can't trade techs. And in this case you can't even STEAL techs. A low tech % will mean certain death going into the Bang and Boom years.

I have the save. I'll probably play tonight(5 to 7 hours from now), unless something comes up.

We are still in representation, which is kind of steaming me a little. We don't need the happiness, and have exactly two specialists running, for a whopping 6:science: per turn. This is a tremendous waste of civic, IMO. How is this better than +25% military production in an always war game?

My plans: Put us into PS, heal the army, and continue the rampage.

If we have a tech goal in mind, let's stay with rep and hire 4 scientists in London and Athens - as I said, we have enough units to roll Hanni and MM. The XP plan is the way to go, certainly, but we if we build a massive army with nowhere to go, we will sink.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0011-2.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0012-1.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0014-1.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0015-1.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0016-2.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0017-2.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x96/sweetacshon/Civ4ScreenShot0018-1.jpg
edit:I was thinking about the (soon to be) obsolete monuments... and perhaps we'll only keep the +:culture: and not the +:), as this is what happens with wonders. I'm just not sure.

12 Turns

Quick Summary:

Combat Status
Kerkouane razed.
Hadrumetum kept.
Djenne Kept.
Units lost: 2 cats at Djenne

Research Status
Calendar finished
Monarchy Finished
Feudalism started

Economy Status
Sucks.

General Commentary
I stayed in rep and hired some scientists. Might as well go for theo, PS, and Vassalage all in one shot.
Mansa has longbows. Build more cats!
Taking Hadrumetum didn't finish Hanni. He's got a hidden city someplace, or a wandering settler.
A GG was born in London during the battle of Djenne.
There appears to be coast across the straits NW of London. I marked it with signs. Our Trireme is island-hopping over to look at it.
Lots of fat towns around Timbutku. We should make it our next target, and try to keep it intact.
Mansa has triremes hassling our fisheries in ex-Carthage.

Sorry, I don't have time to deal with pics, it's late and I need to get up early.

AutologYork finishes: Forge
Athens finishes: Monument

IBT:

Turn 224/660 (860 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:38:20]
Athens begins: Forge (30 turns)
A Farm was built near Utica
Axeman promoted: City Raider II

IBT:

Turn 225/660 (875 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:43:48]
Confucianism has spread: Utica
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Kerkouane, War Elephant defeats (3.20/8): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 94.1%)
Tech learned: Calendar
York finishes: Catapult
Athens grows: 4
Corinth finishes: Courthouse
A Hamlet was built near Corinth

IBT:

Turn 226/660 (890 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:45:39]
Research begun: Monarchy (8 Turns)
York begins: War Elephant (6 turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
War Elephant promoted: Combat III
A Mine was built near Athens
Utica begins: Forge (18 turns)
Utica begins: Forge (18 turns)
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
Utica finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 227/660 (905 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:48:31]
London begins: Confucian Missionary (4 turns)
A Mine was built near Utica
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Kerkouane, Catapult defeats (4.05/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 61.0%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Kerkouane, War Elephant defeats (4.56/8): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 96.8%)
Hinduism has spread: Kerkouane
Captured Kerkouane (Hannibal)
Razed Kerkouane
Kerkouane lost
Corinth grows: 5
Corinth finishes: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 228/660 (920 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:53:04]
Corinth begins: Forge (20 turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider II

IBT:

Turn 229/660 (935 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:55:19]
Athens grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 230/660 (950 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:56:58]
A Mine was built near Utica
London finishes: Confucian Missionary

IBT:
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'

Turn 231/660 (965 AD) [17-Jan-2008 00:58:40]
London begins: Confucian Missionary (4 turns)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Hadrumetum, Catapult defeats (4.10/5): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 63.0%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Hadrumetum, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 96.0%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Hadrumetum, Axeman defeats (3.30/5): Carthaginian Catapult (Prob Victory: 78.9%)
While attacking in Carthaginian territory at Hadrumetum, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Carthaginian Spearman (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
Hinduism has spread: Hadrumetum
Captured Hadrumetum (Hannibal)
Hadrumetum begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
Confucianism has spread: Athens
York finishes: War Elephant

IBT:

Turn 232/660 (980 AD) [17-Jan-2008 01:04:04]
York begins: Catapult (4 turns)
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
War Elephant promoted: Combat II
A Cottage was built near Utica
Catapult promoted: Combat IV

IBT:

Turn 233/660 (995 AD) [17-Jan-2008 01:05:51]
London grows: 9
Utica grows: 6
Utica finishes: Forge
Athens grows: 6

IBT:
A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Carthage

Turn 234/660 (1010 AD) [17-Jan-2008 01:06:57]
Utica begins: Barracks (7 turns)
A Cottage was built near Utica
A Cottage was built near Hadrumetum
Tech learned: Monarchy
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
York finishes: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 235/660 (1025 AD) [17-Jan-2008 01:08:02]
Research begun: Feudalism (23 Turns)
London begins: Catapult (3 turns)
York begins: Catapult (4 turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
A Camp was built near York
Confucianism has spread: Carthage
A Hamlet was built near Utica

IBT:

Turn 236/660 (1040 AD) [17-Jan-2008 01:10:26]
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, Catapult loses to: Malinese Longbowman (4.62/6) (Prob Victory: 1.8%)
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, Catapult loses to: Malinese Longbowman (2.82/6) (Prob Victory: 8.9%)
Nebuchadrezzar II (Great General) born in London
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, War Elephant defeats (3.68/8): Malinese Longbowman (Prob Victory: 95.6%)
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, War Elephant defeats (2.24/8): Malinese Longbowman (Prob Victory: 95.7%)
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, War Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Malinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 98.8%)
While attacking in Malinese territory at Djenne, War Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Malinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
Judaism has spread: Djenne
Captured Djenne (Mansa Musa)
Djenne begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
A Cottage was built near Utica

Save LogHere is your Session Turn Log from 845 AD to 1040 AD:

Turn 223, 845 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (2.60)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 223, 845 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 223, 845 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 223, 845 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 223, 845 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 223, 845 AD: IT: MM to optimize science spend
Turn 223, 845 AD: You have constructed a Forge in York. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 223, 845 AD: Sojourner Truth (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 225, 875 AD: Confucianism has spread in Utica.
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Hannibal's Archer (6.00)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Combat Odds: 94.1%
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 225, 875 AD: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 225, 875 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Corinth. Work has now begun on a Catapult.

Turn 226, 890 AD: You have trained a Axeman in Utica. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 226, 890 AD: Kobo-Daishi (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Archer (4.65)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Combat Odds: 61.0%
Turn 227, 905 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (8.84) vs Hannibal's Archer (4.62)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Combat Odds: 96.8%
Turn 227, 905 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 14 (71/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 27 (61/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 27 (34/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 27 (7/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 14 (57/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 227, 905 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 227, 905 AD: You have captured Kerkouane!!!
Turn 227, 905 AD: You have destroyed the city of Kerkouane!!!

Turn 229, 935 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!

Turn 230, 950 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Vassalage!

Turn 231, 965 AD: Mansa adopts vassalage... now we get to try to crack longbows. Great.
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Catapult (6.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (5.85)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 63.0%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Hannibal's Catapult (3.03)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Catapult!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Hannibal's Catapult (3.70)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 78.9%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Catapult!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Spearman (2.44)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 99.5%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 28 (61/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 28 (33/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 28 (5/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Spearman!
Turn 231, 965 AD: You have captured Hadrumetum!!!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Well, taking Hadrumetum didn't kill Hanni... he's got another city someplace we don't know about.
Turn 231, 965 AD: Confucianism has spread in Athens.

Turn 232, 980 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ? for Carthage.

Turn 233, 995 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 233, 995 AD: London has grown to size 9
Turn 233, 995 AD: Athens has grown to size 6
Turn 233, 995 AD: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!

Turn 234, 1010 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 33%!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: You have discovered Monarchy!

Turn 235, 1025 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Mansa Musa
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Confucianism has spread in Carthage.
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 24%!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 15%!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 6%!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 1%!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Djenne to 0%!

Turn 236, 1040 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Hadrumetum!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (6.37) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (11.70)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (65/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (39/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (13/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (4.50) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (8.19)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 14 (77/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (38/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (12/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.93)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 8.9%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (62/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (47/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.43)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (33/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (11/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Nebuchadrezzar II (Great General) has been born in London (Churchill)!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (5.49)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 95.7%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (26/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (5/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (6.00)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 98.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.50)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 99.2%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: You have captured Djenne!!!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: We have Djenne. GG born in London from the combat.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Fifth_Element_SG006_AD1040_01.CivWarlordsSave)

Roster:
Greatbeyond - Up
Blubmuz
Civicide
Sweetacshon
Merum - resting

I'll probably play tonight(5 to 7 hours from now)
Don't take this the wrong way, Merum, I'm not trying to get personal :) but I feel this doesn't give us all a chance to voice opinions on the way forward. The combat plan was straight forward, but I don't think we are all agreed on the grand strategy.
Sorry, I don't have time to deal with pics, it's late and I need to get up early.
Why not wait until the next day... we are one of the leading groups in terms of turns, so no time pressure.

The game: sorry to be critical without being constructive, but I will write more when I get a better look at the save.

I won't take it personally, but here is my response to your feedback:

I didn't do anything that contradicts with what has been discussed over the past few turnsets with regard to strategy. In fact, I stayed in a civic that I have been quite vocally against for the sake of team play. My research path is clearly in line with what needs to be done to support the "XP Plan" which appears to be the consensus choice for the "Best Path".

I feel that 7 hours is more than enough time to make comments on the stated plan, and in fact you did comment prior to my playing the turnset after I stated what I planned to do. Adding the time from when you posted the save, there were 13 hours to comment on the progress of the game before I began play.

Don't take this personally:D, but you posted stating that you would play and then posted your results 12.5 hours later. My results were posted 10.5 hours after my post stating my plan. I also seem to remember a comment regarding another team and the amount of posts per turn played.

Finally, I'll say this: If we don't have a strategy that can support a turnset being played without massive discussion about what to do next, we're cooked. Strategy is what happens in the long term. Tactics are what happens over a turnset. If we want to adopt as a team a policy of "comment period" prior to playing a turnset, then let's do that. I'm not sure it's necessary, we're all players capable of playing at this level.

I'm not upset or angry about this conversation in the slightest bit. If we need to do some team housekeeping, then let's do it, and move on.

Now for screenies:


Domestic Advisor
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/Domestic_Advisor0000.JPG
North Side
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/North0000.JPG
South Side
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/South0000.JPG
Our Forces at Djenne
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/Forces_at_Djenne0000.JPG
Power
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/Power0000.JPG
Mfg Goods
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/Mfg_Goods0000.JPG
GNP
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45761/GNP0000.JPG

Judging by demographics, it seems that Hannibal still has a city, not a settler.

BTW, I suppose we're close to popping our next GP, at 188 points, right? Are we sure what to do with him already?

Do our new cities have all other necessary infrastructure already? I like to build courts later, since they're so expensive. Building a cheap building could be more efficient, since it can be whipped easily.

Okay, a few thoughts (warning: long Civicide post coming; I can feel it).

City micromanagement:

London isn't currently working its gold mine. That's a mistake. The gold is still more useful than the scientist, if it's a choice between the two. We also need to get our workers in the area (we have 4 @York) to put plantations on those bananas, which has always been necessary for the city to fully thrive.

York is doing well, though its farmed bananas also need a plantation. With that plantation it should be stagnant at size 9 with a massive 23 base production.

Athens I'm not happy with how we're managing. It should be working its seafood first and prioritizing its growth before worrying about its cottaged tiles. I would remove all specialists and let it work its 3 seafood + sheep, the gold, and the copper, where it has a food surplus of 12 and will grow in 2 turns (which can then become our specialists, or work the cottaged tiles, whichever we want). It can also crank out a settler in 7 turns.

Corinth is building a forge and I'm not quite sure why. Its base production is only 9 and its borders haven't popped yet; after they do there's another FP we can cottage. A Library should be the priority in my opinion, as its commerce will help out greatly.

Utica has the makings of a decent combo city with passable production and passable commerce. It's the city with our 3rd best potential production.

Carthage should whip its courthouse immediately: 2 pop which is unhappy anyway, and 5gpt saved.

Hadrumentum I'm not particularly excited we chose to keep, though I didn't speak out against it so I can't complain. It's useless. The wineries will be marginal at best, and there's no real production to speak of.

Djenne should be a fantastic commerce city and should be able to get up to 18 commerce at size 3, with the dyes, and has lots of cottageable river grassland tiles to use. 10 base production as well, not terrible for managing its buildings.

Timbuktu should be our next target and its developed towns make it a definite keeper. Taking it should break Mansa's economic back as Kumbi Saleh has been pillaged to death and Gao is basically useless. Too bad 2 of his remaining 3 cities (that we can see) are on hills.

Our Economy is my biggest concern. Right now we are still losing money even at 0% research, although Djenne should develop quickly. IMO its border pop is even more important than a courthouse, as working those two dye spots is worth 12 commerce, while the courthouse will only save us along the lines of 4 gpt. I would whip a Library there first thing. Otherwise get a missionary there now.

Additionally, with the luxury of Athens' food resources, we might want to quickly crank out a couple of Settlers there and settle our rice/gold and gold x2 city sites. Although you could argue that the last thing we need at this point is more cities, these should very quickly make up their maintenance costs (particularly since they'll be close to the capital). Additionally the rice/gold city has a ton of cottageable grassland, although it would require a lot of worker love with all the jungle.

Militaristically we just need to keep doing what we're doing. With enough cats and dumbos, the remainder of MM's cities are just a matter of time. I love that we have multiple level 5 units. Too bad Literature is a lifetime away; the HE in London would be just ridiculous.

I'd bet money that Hannibal has a city off the SE coast somewhere, it's just a matter of finding it.

Taking the 3 remaining MM cities (that we can see) should fund our coffers for a push to Feudalism, although that might be tight. From there we can execute Merum's max-xp plan.

Great People: I think we should settle our GG in either London or York, to double-down on that XP bonus. When we get our 4th GG, and we will, it will go in the other city. The reason being:

Technology: After Feudalism, we need to do whatever it takes to dribble out Horseback Riding from our flailing economy. The reason: Stables. Then in whichever of our cities we settle our 2nd GG, our Elephants will start off with an insane 13xp, just enough for level 5, four promotions. That's just nuts :)

From there it just becomes a matter of keeping our economy afloat at 0% research and finishing off our unseen rivals before they get rifles. With Combat 4 elephants running around right out of the gate, that should be quite possible.

Sorry Sweeta, but i agree with Merum.
7 to 12 hours or so is not a long time, but the main strategy has been decided, and his TS was only a matter of tactics.

We can revise our strategy if someone can propose something new, but i think, reading the long but useful Civ's post that we're doing well, or at least we're doing what we planned to do from the time our decisions were taken.

Small adjustements to the MM of cities, a library instead of a courthouse or things like that can be discussed after each TS.

For now i can say that, since we choose to have a SR, better convert all our cities to that religion, hoping to not fail.

The good use for the (possible) 2nd GProphet is the Confu Shrine, to help our poor economy.

If we have a 3rd GG i think the best thing is to put him in Athens, to help with the Navy.

I'm concerned by the last (hopefully) Hanni's city, i hope it's not on a island.

And we must keep some chariot North of London, to watch Mansa.

edit
our links are up-to-date
Graph: many teams are over us, but i think they will drop with time. I can't understand what CRC is doing.

@greatbeyond
7 days without a post in this thread is a long time, i hope you don't have problems.
In case let us know.
For now, if you don't post a "got it" in 24 hours from this post, i'll grab the save.

I have been busy but also practicing an important kind of restraint,
~It is better to remain silent and have people think you are an idiot, than to speak and remove all doubt~ (Mark Twain?)
I will grab the save tonight and take a look in depth, ..finishing my Civ3SGOTM turn tonight.

Some quick thoughts:
Should we build 2 galleys and try to land Troops near the other Civs (when we find them) to carry out pillaging actions? I am afraid that if we ignore them too long they will get so strong we may not be able to kill them off. I suppose on the other hand that if we kill off MM without meeting any of the other civs we may enjoy a period without war weariness. Is it worth it to limit our exploration?

We won't have to worry about the Barbs on our continent with us having the Great Wall, thus there isn't any hurry for us to build more cities. We can let the Barbs build them and we can capture or raze as our needs dictate.

Has anyone calculated the number of tiles visible and the number needed for victory? Is there a chance of getting close to the Dom limit with just what we see?

Capturing and razing MM's cities will probably relieve our money worries for a little while, but we must be prepared when the money starts to run out. I would suggest doing that ASAP, and cottaging like mad.

Any suggestions on research path?

I will probably start my TS in about 20 hours, I will pause if something important comes up.

Small adjustements to the MM of cities, a library instead of a courthouse or things like that can be discussed after each TS.
This is all I meant ... not everyone had a chance to comment. The choice of the term strategy was ill considered. I just meant that I thought there were things to discuss .. in this case Hadrum.

Some quick thoughts:
Should we build 2 galleys and try to land Troops near the other Civs (when we find them) to carry out pillaging actions? I am afraid that if we ignore them too long they will get so strong we may not be able to kill them off. I suppose on the other hand that if we kill off MM without meeting any of the other civs we may enjoy a period without war weariness. Is it worth it to limit our exploration?
Absolutely (galleys), although we will probably want triremes out first, in fact sooner rather than later. As for WW, we aren't really experiencing a great deal of it.. I suspect due to the level of the game and a discount due to AW. (don't quote me on that)

I agree with the other points made on techs and MM, but suspect that we shouldn't settle those 2 sites until we can afford it. dutch makes a good point about the new cities - libs and forges could go before courts, but courts in both will save ~9gpt immediately, so...? Whatever you decide, you can probably afford to whip away those :mad:s.

After Feudalism and HBR come in, I suggest we figure out a way to get currency in. Markets would help us a bit with our cash flow problems, especially in Djenne, London, and Athens. Razing the barb cities in the north will also help us out with some gold.

The forge in Corinth is premature, I was looking at the mines there when I started it, and it was just a bit of a reflex play I guess. Still, with the hills around, once we pop the borders the forge won't be so bad.

I agree on the GG, either York or London, whichever is netting us the most hammers.

After Feudalism and HBR come in, I suggest we figure out a way to get currency in. Markets would help us a bit with our cash flow problems, especially in Djenne, London, and Athens. Razing the barb cities in the north will also help us out with some gold.

I think the state of the OS AI civs will dictate how much more effort we have to put into teching. Hopefully they aren't way ahead of us, so we can just turn of science and rollover them with cats and jumbos.

I think the state of the OS AI civs will dictate how much more effort we have to put into teching. Hopefully they aren't way ahead of us, so we can just turn of science and rollover them with cats and jumbos.

We may not need a tech advantage militarily to "roll over" our opponents, but at the very minimum, it takes money to support an overseas army. We have time to decide, and more will be clear once we see what we're up against.

More Money = More Units
More Units = Faster Warfare
Faster Warfare = Faster Victory
Faster Victory = Laurels

Therefore, More Money = Laurels? Maybe. :D

After Feudalism and HBR come in, I suggest we figure out a way to get currency in. Markets would help us a bit with our cash flow problems, especially in Djenne, London, and Athens. Razing the barb cities in the north will also help us out with some gold.I think Saxons is worth keeping.
We can also settle the rice/gold city close to London, beeing close it should be not a great cost.

I agree on the GG, either York or London, whichever is netting us the most hammers.Perhaps you missed my post, but i suggested to put the GG in Athens to help with navy, no sense to have 2 more XP, we do almost nothing with that (for now).

Domination limit:
to better know this, we can raise the % in the HoF options tab to see how many tiles we own exactly (then turn it back again to avoid the message popping every turn), then try to count the land tiles on our continent.
Remember, only land, even mountains, but not fresh water.

@greatbeyond
great wisdom, but to know you're alive a "i'm busy but still here" is enough.

Perhaps you missed my post, but i suggested to put the GG in Athens to help with navy, no sense to have 2 more XP, we do almost nothing with that (for now).
Actually, this might be premature. IF we only need galleys to get around, and IF the link is to the east, the GG would be wasted on a naval base in the west. Therefore, park him for later, or stick him in London or York, imo.
We may not need a tech advantage militarily to "roll over" our opponents, but at the very minimum, it takes money to support an overseas army. We have time to decide, and more will be clear once we see what we're up against.
Agreed, hopefully we'll have this knowledge by the end of HRB.
I think Saxons is worth keeping.
We can also settle the rice/gold city close to London, beeing close it should be not a great cost.
Perhaps... I'd rather finish MM and find the other AIs before we settle, but if London has finished its buildings and missionaries, I have no problem with settler production for the 2 gold sites close to London.

Perhaps you missed my post, but i suggested to put the GG in Athens to help with navy, no sense to have 2 more XP, we do almost nothing with that (for now).

I didn't miss your post... I just don't agree with using the GG there. I've never had good luck with naval combat without regard to how many promotions my ships have. I think naval combat is rigged, like US elections. :D


Domination limit:
to better know this, we can raise the % in the HoF options tab to see how many tiles we own exactly (then turn it back again to avoid the message popping every turn), then try to count the land tiles on our continent.
Remember, only land, even mountains, but not fresh water.


Good idea! Will this tell us about hidden tiles, though? EDIT: nevermind, brain not working this morning. :coffee:

28 hours without a post... what's up, team?

A relaxing weekend, perhaps? Paging greatbeyond...

... it occurs to me that you're probably out living up to your name. ;)

I got a busy weekend, but - mainly - after GB's "got it" i waited for his report.
Not much to add except:
are you lost somewhere, GB?

You shall have what you desire shortly, ... well maybe not that but, but you will have the results of the TS

Halfway through my turnset my graphic card driver quit and crashed my computer. At the time I was at 1116AD. I thought I had it set to save at the end of each turn, but as it turns out it was not. The last auto-save was 1100AD. I went back and played exactly as the autolog showed. Hopefully this will not affect our submission. I made a copy of the autolog before I started over. I will attach all. I will send info to the SGOTM staff.

As for the game, Timbuktu is ours, though we paid a heavy price, 4 Cats and 1 Ellie

Our first Gr Prophet I used to establish The Kong Miao in York, on Turn 13 we had another Gr Prophet born in London. He is still there, we just need to decide what to do with him.
We are one turn away from Feudalism, but only have 37G and are using 48G/turn. Our Tireme has explored the NW and has not found anymore land.
It is official, we are pathetic in Techs compared to the rest of the world.
Hannibal has a Trireme and has been scouting our southern coast.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Fifth_Element_SG006_AD1172_01.CivWarlordsSave



Here is your Session Turn Log from 1040 AD to 1172 AD:

Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (6.37) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (11.70)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (65/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (39/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (13/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (4.50) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (8.19)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 14 (77/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (38/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (12/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.93)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 8.9%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (62/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (47/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.43)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (33/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (11/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Nebuchadrezzar II (Great General) has been born in London (Churchill)!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (5.49)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 95.7%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (26/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (5/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (6.00)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 98.8%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.50)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 99.2%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: You have captured Djenne!!!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: We have Djenne. GG born in London from the combat.
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Logging Game to File: WSGOTM6.txt

Turn 239, 1085 AD: Confucianism has spread in Djenne.

Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.00) vs Churchill's Chariot (4.40)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 83.9%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Chariot!

Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill has completed The Kong Miao!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (13.38)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (10.68)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 0.4%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (9.29)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 1.6%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 14 (73/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 14 (59/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 14 (45/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (8.45)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 4.9%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (9.32)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 78.4%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (53/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (33/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (13/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (7.79)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 85.7%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's War Elephant!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (7.02)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 14.9%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 15 (49/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult (7.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.69)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 59.6%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (38/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (21/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (4/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.69)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 92.3%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (35/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (15/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (11.20) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (6.02)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 96.5%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (24/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (3/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Longbowman (3.76)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 83.2%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +28%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 18 (31/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 18 (13/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Longbowman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Mansa Musa's Longbowman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (10.40) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: You have captured Timbuktu!!!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!

Turn 247, 1142 AD: Your population: 64, plus growth: 1 (22.65%) will put close to the Domination Limit: 143 (50.00%).

Turn 248, 1148 AD: Carthage's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 249, 1154 AD: Rabbi Akiva (Great Prophet) has been born in London (Churchill)!
Turn 249, 1154 AD: The borders of Carthage have expanded!

Turn 250, 1160 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Djenne.
Turn 250, 1160 AD: You have plundered 19? from the Hamlet!
Turn 250, 1160 AD: York's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 251, 1166 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Timbuktu!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (3.15)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 93.9%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Mansa Musa's Skirmisher (3.47)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 92.9%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (10/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 15 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Skirmisher!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Chariot (4.40) vs Mansa Musa's Skirmisher (1.10)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Mansa Musa's Skirmisher!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Your Chariot has destroyed a Skirmisher!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have plundered 6? from the Farm!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 29 ? for Timbuktu.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: You have trained a Catapult in London. Work has now begun on a War Elephant.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: The borders of York have expanded!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Confucianism has spread in Corinth.
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Nain Singh (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Your land area: 183 (15.00%) is close to the Domination Limit: 780 (64.00%).

Turn 252, 1172 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Carthage!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Timbuktu!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Confucianism has spread in Hadrumetum.
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Archer (2.50)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Combat Odds: 99.2%
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (10.40) vs Mansa Musa's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Mansa Musa's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Utica.

Your report was a bit pessimistic, GB i must look at the save to understand why.
The only thing i can say is that i hope we don't have problems with your submission.
I'll wait also to hear this before start play.

I got the save, i'll open it tomorrow, then post a to do list.
I'll wait for your suggestions, and surely i'll not play without a team-approved plan.
I lost some focus, and i need to go back in-game.

Losing focus was what took so long, there are lots of decisions to be made each turn. I had to go back and check each city to undo assignments made by the Governors. Mansa is building Longbows like crazy so taking his last two cities may take some units. Mansa might also have another city to the north as it seems he had two Skirmishers come from that direction.

As far as Tech, The AI says we are pathetic, lets just hope they are learning the Arts and not warfare!
I started a Trireme in Athens and a Galley in Carthage. I think we will see our Power go up substantially once Hannibal is dead. Corinth is building a Library as without culture it is not expanding, and we could use the boost in Research.

We have been getting messages that we are approx halfway to the Pop Limit but so far no messages about the Dom Land limit.

I have been building cottages to try and boost our economy. We may have to reduce our science to pay for a new city south of London to gain the gold to fund our economy.

Turn 251, 1166 AD: Your land area: 183 (15.00%) is close to the Domination Limit: 780 (64.00%).

GB, I've had a similar crash experience, as well as twice pressing alt-Q instead of alt-tab. Don't stress about it, just make sure you're configured to save every turn :)

I'm yet to check the save, but the economy is bound to suck... I'm ok with that, unless we will need astro, in which case I'm going to cry ;)

Turn 236, 1040 AD: Nebuchadrezzar II (Great General) has been born in London (Churchill)!

What did we do with him? If we're still in Representation, we could settle him for experience and beakers. Are we still in Rep btw, or have we adopted Police State?

Ugh. I was really hoping we'd hit a land bridge off of those islands in the north to our other rivals. Hopefully our SE islands give us something to work with.

However, I don't think we'll need Astronomy (if we do, we're in deep, deep trouble). Don't forget that Merum found and labelled some coasts to the W of our main cities. They'd be in range of galleys if we brought in a culture bridge. Settling on the Rice or the Spices near London, and getting Confucianism there ASAP, would allow for a culture bridge, although of course there's no guarantee that those coasts lead to our other landmass.

Obviously our first priority needs to be to finish off MM, which we hopefully have the forces for. I think we're okay running at 0% research for the time being, as we have enough specialists to dribble our way to Feudalism and HBR in the next turnset, particularly if we hire a couple of scientists in Athens. Our economy isn't in quite as bad of shape as it looks, as we have Timbuktu online soon, picking up mega food and lots of coin at its border pop, an easy 12 commerce more when Djenne's border's pop in 4 turns, Carthage which will be a monster once it can get its fishing boats online.

I would also give serious consideration to moving our capital to York or Utica. Both are centrally located, have good production for building the Palace, and having it in London gains us nothing for the moment. With its current chopping hammers, Utica could have the palace built in 10 turns. York could also build in 10 if we optimized for hammers. That would save us considerable maintenance cost. I would vote Utica as it doesn't have a GG settled and thus its production is less valuable for military.

We need to find our other rivals ASAP and get some pillagers working. Our enemies will likely have engineering, and the one unit that can really destroy us is pikemen (as we are so dependent on our dumbos). But obviously we can prevent ourselves from facing too many of them if we take care of our enemy's iron right away. Again, crossing our fingers that we have some kind of bridge to our E. When we find the last Hannibal city, before we decide what to do with it, we need to figure out its status as a potential culture bridge.

I would hold off on the Great Civics Switch until after we have HBR, to get the max value out of Rep for the techs that we still want.

Edit to add: I just noticed we're one courthouse away from being able to build the FP. We should whip the CH in Djenne (2 pop, one of which is unhappy anyway, plenty of food there) and start on the FP right away. Maybe keep the capital in London (particularly if we're going to be settling near it anyway, for gold and/or culture bridge) and put the FP in Utica. That should cut down our maintenance costs considerably.

I've got a busy day, so i can't opened the save.
Civ's points about CH and FP are interesting, at least.

1 day in late to my post/feedback/play schedule, i suppose that this is not a problem, we're the most advanced team in terms of game date.

I should have some time tomorrow morning, i'll try to post my plan there (some 11 hours from now).

I've seen we have no problems with the submission, but a recommandation to set the save every turn in the .ini file.
I think it's fair, please check your settings (but i'm sure you already did it ... now).
Me? yes i got that set, but my PC never crashes (charms) ... too powerful men, too powerful... the Quad duo is a beast.

edit
bah, this way doesn't work
there was some conspiracy to make me busy in those days.
sorry, another day of delay
if you want, swap me!
i'm sincerely sorry for this delay

Finally i got the save opened.
To do:
1) whip a CH in Timbu and Djenne, only unhappy to clean
2) find Hanni's last city
2b) send a chariot to scout the north-east, i can't see Hanni's borders (some island, perhaps?)
3) complete feud, start currency and once researched, a market in York
4) raze Gao - it's in plain, can be easy
5) Kumbi Saleh can be a nice city, what we do? hard to take it, on a hill, plenty of workers, nice
6) what about a settler for the rice+gold city? on the hill SW of rice, in case
7) spread Confu
8) let the GP parked
9) continue to scout with the trireme

Just a consideration: pity we settle our 3rd GG in London, Athens is a powerhouse, he would have been far better there.

I got the suspect we'll need Astro. Of course we have no knowledge of the SE coast, but i can bet on it.

Again, sorry for the delay, i'll play once i'll have some feedback on the above.

Finally i got the save opened.
To do:
1) whip a CH in Timbu and Djenne, only unhappy to clean
2) find Hanni's last city
2b) send a chariot to scout the north-east, i can't see Hanni's borders (some island, perhaps?)
3) complete feud, start currency and once researched, a market in York
4) raze Gao - it's in plain, can be easy
5) Kumbi Saleh can be a nice city, what we do? hard to take it, on a hill, plenty of workers, nice
6) what about a settler for the rice+gold city? on the hill SW of rice, in case
7) spread Confu
8) let the GP parked
9) continue to scout with the trireme

1) Yes
2) Obviously. I'm guessing it's on an island.
3) I would prefer HBR before Currency, for Stables, but Currency works as well.
4) Yes
5) I don't know. It's kind of borderline. Obviously it will be hard to take, but we're going to have to eventually.
6) Definitely. I think we've been overdue in finding a time to crank out a Settler. We have plenty of workers now for the jungle.
7) Yes.
8) Agreed, though isn't Theology pretty much inevitable?
9) Yes, and hope there's some path to someone else available to the East.

Just a consideration: pity we settle our 3rd GG in London, Athens is a powerhouse, he would have been far better there.

Hmm. Well, Athens is at pretty much its max production, and it seems to me that its primary purpose will be more as a GP farm than a production city. Plus, with Stables, Vassalage, and Theocracy, London will now be putting out elephants at Level 5.

And there's still a good chance we won't need Astronomy. Don't forget the possibility of a culture bridge to the NW of London.

Agree on the courthouse whip. A settler for the gold mines is also good. I think we might as well spend the GP on theo, it's gotta happen anyway, why keep him sitting there? HBR before currency. Kumbi Saleh is questionable, I wish it had more or less resources to make the decision more clear.

Civ, where do you play poker?

Civ, where do you play poker?
Mostly $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold 'Em at Full Tilt Poker. A little bit at PokerStars, and the occasional tournament.

Ha! I'm playing on FTP right now.

Still alive, Blub?

I realise I didn't comment, but you pretty much nailed all of those points...

8) Agreed, though isn't Theology pretty much inevitable?
Well, it was part of the plan, so we may as well, unless... it may aid the AI in trading freedom if more civs have it, but I'm not sure by how much. One thing about the grand civics switch, we can maximise our time in the science phase by prebuilding units - an dumbo and a cat, I guess - to within 1 turn in each city, thereby getting a heap of high xp units within a few turns of the change, while maintaining the extra science from our current choices.

Hell, i has to reset my PC (my fault).
I'll play tomorrow morning, if no more troubles happen.

Would been better to wait to LB Theo with our GP and consequentially wait to revolt to Theocracy?
We have enough units to wipe our continent, and i'd like to wait to see if Astro is needed.

As i already said, i can bet it is.

TS played:
IT 252 - 1172 AD
few small MM adjustements, whipped CH as agreed
t254
our winery finally on line removed the last unhappies
research HBR between 10% + 11 and 20% - 2
Gao under siege
t256
Gao razed for 2 cats, our treasury is in better shape now, res to 20%
no news from scouts, i see no bridges in the NW
t258
Whipped CH in Hadrum
t261
a source of gems popped near Carthage - please verify if there's a road to the mine -
ready to attack KS, i'll keep it
t262
KS is ours for 1 ele+ 1 cat - i kept it 'cause it has good terrain/resources + some developed cottage and it's in a good position. It comes with LH, started CH, Mansa is no more, the continent is ours

FP in Djenne? or Utica?

t267
no news, currency due in 1 @ 20% -34, it's worth for the +1 t/r Stopped.
Hanni is hidden somewhere, now we got a trireme near Carthage, hopefully we can find him. Explore that sector will tell us about Astro or not.
All our cities are Confu, but the last founded one i don't remember if i started a missionary somewhere.

I think that HBR before Currency was a mistake, but i didn't thought to the +1 t/r, nor to the chance to produce wealth.

Perhaps we can go for Alpha after currency, so we can produce science, too. Then the path to Optics.

Our next goals are:
- find and eliminate Hanni;
- know if Astro is needed, and it seems so
- take Saxon, and keep it, IMO
- raze the other barb city, it seems poor

the save

Roster:
Civicide - up
Sweetacshon - on deck
Merum
Greatbeyond
Blubmuz - resting

Since there's nothing to look at I looked at the graphs. Looks like this team is in 9th of 12th place more or less.

Murky is getting the job done without a great army, or perhaps with a small army that takes many losses while continuing to pump out troops at home. They are clearly the favorite. And given their overwhelming post count, no single aspect of any turn goes un-noticed...

I really wonder that if starting with a late cultural victory would have been the play. I always have doubts in the mid-game of any reasonable likelyhood of success. I still sort of get the feeling that knowing the difficulty of the variant a domination victory is possible sans Astro, but conquest not. Perhaps that's what CRC is struggling with now.

Okay, I have the save. Good turnset as always BLubmuz. We have some truly scary units (I LOVE our Commando dumbo!) I will play soon. My goals:

1) Find and finish Hannibal. Pray for a land bridge.

2) Start the FP. It looks like Djenne is the better spot for it. The only down-side is that it will take longer to build there than in Utica, but long term we'll gain more from it being in Djenne.

3) Road up the carthage gems (they have none at the moment), and build fishing boats for our eastern shore (including building one in Carthage and trucking it to Athens).

4) We will get a GP in Athens during my TS, probably an engineer. What to use this for? We can build the Chichen Itza (worthless IMO), lightbulb Machinery, or save for a future wonder. My vote would actually, I think, be to lightbulb Machinery, for a quicker path to Astronomy.

5) Research path: finish Currency -> Compass -> Machinery (lightbulbed) -> Optics. By then we should know wheter or not we need Astronomy for sure, and caravels will still help us.

Sorry to have not posted SSs, but i was in a hurry when finished my TS.
Not that there's much new, only few tiles are revealed. Gao was in strong overlap with Timbu and KS is on a nice NE corner of the eastern landmass (i divided our continent as east - from York meridian to the east coast and of course west London and its landmass).

Thank civ, i agree with everything you posted, also the CH placement: that's why i didn't started it already. I think it's better finish the forge, then start it.
Hanni: try to scout around the furs, just to be sure.

Another thing to do, that i tried but i forgot to complete: count the tiles on our continent and turn to a low % the HoF dom alert, so we can know how much we need. Then count also the tiles (but keep them divided) in the nearby islands.
In the far north there's ice blocking the path to west.

I don't care what the other teams do, if Astro is needed i'm convinced our strategy can beat them. If not... well, no laurels, we at best can win the game.
Ohh another one speaks about a cultural: too late i suppose, and it's AW after all.

Okay, I've played 6 of the turns so far. We indeed did get a GE in Athens, and also made contact with a Ragnar caravel which sank one of our galleys. His score is 846, slightly behind our 996, and he probably making quite a few of his scary UU :(

No sign of Hanni's last city yet.

I'd like confirmation from at least one other team member that we want to use the GE to lightbulb Machinery, as this affects our immediate research path.

Ragnar... damn. I vote for machinery with the GE. We should start thinking about LBs, too, for the inevitable berserker assault.

Ragnar... double damn.
As i already said, for me the best use for the GE is Machinery, no doubt.
Ragnar's caravel makes me think that if he could have reached us by galley, the contact was established long time ago.
This makes me think also that will be veeery hard for us to gain the circumnavigation bonus, that probably Ragnar would gain, added to the +1 movemnt he has from his UB, this put his ships to an insane +2.
Anyway, we can try, there's always the hope he can be blocked by some ice.
Thus i think the priority is to go for Optics, then upgrade our triremes. I suggest Alpha after Optics, we'll can produce science and see what techs the other Civs got.

Lastly, i think i've won my bet that Astro is needed, for the same reason he reached us by caravel.
The good sides of this are:
1) We can be safe from his Berserkers until Astro, so nothing to worry (but better verify using our caravels)
2) now i'm curious to see how the other teams manage to afford a long game if they razed every city or if they are without CHs. This can put us in good shape, and we are when our stuctures will be developed.

Now, what about take Saxon? i'm still in the opinion that it's a good city, and pretty close to London. Use cats, it has walls.
Just to discuss, in case we can also move the capital, London is the in the West border: what about a Palace move in York, and re-think to the FP?

Okay, turnset played. Here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Fifth_Element_SG006_AD1364_01.CivWarlordsSave)

I went a little bit over so as to get us one turn into optics, to help us figure out our options from here on out. I was able to upgrade one of our Western triremes into a caravel and got one turn of exploration in. Here's what it yielded:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/westcoast0000.jpg

As you can see that appears to be a fairly significant landmass, accessible from a possible culture bridge, but the fact that it's unsettled may mean we would need another bridge, and by the time we got that, we'd probably already have astro.

Also, I found Hannibal's last city, on an island to the NE of Kumbi Saleh. Only found it because of the optics boost.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/hannilastcity0000.jpg

Finally, we have what appears to be a possible Viking city off our West coast, which is a bit strange as all of Ragnar's caravels have come in from the East.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/gdshaffe/ragnar0000.jpg

One more turn should make it pretty clear just what's going on in that area, as I upgraded one of the triremes near Athens to figure this out.

A couple more Viking caravels showed up and decimated my eastern exploration fleet, and are currently being a nuisance to Carthage by preventing it from working its seafood. Luckily they can't pillage.

The domination limit is 780 tiles, we have 254. Someone can count if they want but it really doesn't look like domination is possible on our continent alone.

Here's the autolog.
Turn 267/660 (1262 AD) [25-Jan-2008 12:06:01]
A Cottage was built near Djenne
Tech learned: Currency
York finishes: Confucian Missionary
Corinth finishes: Confucian Monastery
Civics Change: Hannibal(Carthage) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'

Turn 268/660 (1268 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:38:14]
Research begun: Compass (7 Turns)
York begins: Market (8 turns)
Corinth begins: Market (15 turns)
A Cottage was built near Corinth
Utica finishes: Library
Athens finishes: Stable
Timbuktu grows: 7
A Hamlet was built near Kumbi Saleh

Turn 269/660 (1274 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:41:38]
Utica begins: Longbowman (5 turns)
Athens begins: Market (9 turns)
Confucianism has spread: Nottingham
A Hamlet was built near Kumbi Saleh

Turn 270/660 (1280 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:43:15]
A Cottage was built near Djenne
London finishes: Courthouse
Carthage finishes: Galley
Djenne finishes: Granary
Nottingham grows: 2
Taoism founded in a distant land

Turn 271/660 (1286 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:44:50]
London begins: Market (9 turns)
Carthage begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Djenne begins: Forbidden Palace (30 turns)
A Cottage was built near Nottingham
A Village was built near Athens
Hadrumetum finishes: Trireme
Contact made: Viking Empire
Attitude Change: Ragnar(Vikings) towards Churchill(England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 272/660 (1292 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:46:57]
A Plantation was built near Djenne
Utica finishes: Longbowman
Bi Sheng (Great Engineer) born in Athens
A Village was built near Corinth
Hadrumetum finishes: Chariot
Timbuktu's borders expand
While defending just off shore near Hadrumetum, Galley loses to: Viking Caravel (0.12/3) (Prob Victory: 9.9%)

Turn 273/660 (1298 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:49:04]
Utica begins: Market (12 turns)
Hadrumetum begins: Trireme (15 turns)
A Mine was built near Timbuktu
A Cottage was built near Corinth
A Plantation was built near Timbuktu
Tech learned: Compass
Carthage finishes: Work Boat
Hadrumetum grows: 5

Turn 274/660 (1304 AD) [25-Jan-2008 14:54:51]
Research begun: Machinery (9 Turns)
Carthage begins: Library (7 turns)

New Log Entries
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Turn 274/660 (1304 AD) [26-Jan-2008 10:57:13]
Tech learned: Machinery
Research begun: Optics (8 Turns)
A Cottage was built near Timbuktu
A Mine was built near Timbuktu
A Cottage was built near Timbuktu
York finishes: Market
While defending just off shore, Trireme defeats (0.62/2): Viking Caravel (Prob Victory: 20.7%)
While defending on the high seas, Trireme loses to: Viking Caravel (2.58/3) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)

Turn 275/660 (1310 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:00:48]
York begins: Stable (3 turns)
A Cottage was built near Nottingham
Timbuktu grows: 8
Attitude Change: Ragnar(Vikings) towards Churchill(England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 276/660 (1316 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:02:31]
While attacking in English territory near Hadrumetum, Trireme loses to: Viking Caravel (0.90/3) (Prob Victory: 57.6%)
A Fishing Boats was built near Carthage
A Cottage was built near Timbuktu
A Mine was built near York
A Cottage was built near Timbuktu
London grows: 11

Turn 277/660 (1322 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:04:13]
A Cottage was built near York
A Cottage was built near Djenne
Utica grows: 10
Athens finishes: Market
Corinth grows: 8
Djenne grows: 6

Turn 278/660 (1328 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:05:40]
Athens begins: Trireme (4 turns)
London finishes: Market
York finishes: Stable
Corinth finishes: Market
A Village was built near Hadrumetum

Turn 279/660 (1334 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:08:09]
London begins: Confucian Monastery (4 turns)
York begins: Library (6 turns)
Corinth begins: Barracks (5 turns)
A Mine was built near Nottingham
Carthage finishes: Library
Timbuktu finishes: Forge

Turn 280/660 (1340 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:10:25]
Carthage begins: Trireme (5 turns)
Timbuktu begins: Library (11 turns)
York finishes: Library
Athens finishes: Trireme

Turn 281/660 (1346 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:13:18]
York begins: Confucian Temple (5 turns)
Athens begins: Trireme (4 turns)
A Farm was built near Djenne
A Mine was built near Timbuktu
A Farm was built near York
A Cottage was built near Timbuktu
London finishes: Confucian Monastery
Athens grows: 12
A Hamlet was built near Corinth
Hadrumetum grows: 6
A Village was built near Kumbi Saleh

Turn 282/660 (1352 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:17:20]
London begins: Stable (4 turns)
Tech learned: Optics
A Village was built near Utica
Timbuktu grows: 9
Kumbi Saleh's borders expand
Nottingham grows: 3

Turn 283/660 (1358 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:21:01]
Research begun: Astronomy (56 Turns)
A Cottage was built near Nottingham
Corinth finishes: Barracks
Nottingham's borders expand

Turn 284/660 (1364 AD) [26-Jan-2008 11:26:13]
Corinth begins: Confucian Temple (8 turns)

Good one, Civ.
I think now we have to start a building phase, to build a decent economy.
There's some (little) hope that the orange borders are in a continental landmass and not on an island, anyway in next TS we'll know it well.

If the city is on a island, raze it, unless there are interesting resources;
if on a continent, it can be a foothold, so it can be worth keep it.

In any case, protect our galleys. And move the caravels only in pairs, also to cover our fishing nets.

Yes, those on the west seem Viking borders, but you said all the caravels are coming from East? strange. Can they be yellow perhaps?

I think it's too soon for Astro: what do we use against the berserkers, WE?
No, better go for Alpha first, then CS, Engineering and finally Astro.

I've seen from your SSs you're running @ 30% +13gpt: with some more market and the FP on line we can significantly improve.
Noticed also Ragnar is the Buddha Boss... no spiritual civs but MM in this game? He can have coquered the holy city, but...
Anyway he's far behind us in score, for what is worth.

Not a word about Saxon... time to