Yes. We are 26/30 on our way to a Gt Gen. I must admit I always tend to add these to the city (academy / instructor) rather than make a warlord unit. It's a matter of weighing up the instant ex-points against a steady stream of ex-points. Since we are going to be warring a lot, I'd prefer a steady stream.

I always spend my first Great General on a Medic. A hyperpowered medic is essential to keep the stack of doom rolling.

It's not the steady stream of EXP points that you should weigh against having a Med 3, which can only come from a Warlord. It's the time that you save by having a healthy stack faster after each attack. It speeds up the attack which means you need fewer hammers overall to win. If you attack five cities and save 2 turns healing after each attack, that's 10 turns! Don't forget, with Charismatic, our units promote faster so that 2 xp is not as significant getting to 12 as it is getting to 15.

I suggest that you try out the Med 3 in an offline game and see it what it does. I will live with a GG added to London as that means a second promotion for every unit but I would prefer the medic as it's always going to be in the front lines and will always be useful.

I always spend my first Great General on a Medic. A hyperpowered medic is essential to keep the stack of doom rolling.

One of the reasons I signed-up to play with Geezers in these SGOTMs is a chance to pick up knowledge that seems to have passed me by.
This is evidently one of those 'pay-back moments'.
Not only have I never used a GG to create a Med3 in any of my SP games - I have never even thought about doing it!! Today's the day:thanx: :)




Update: I'll be ready to go in a few minutes. Just get my cup of tea.

Summary

We're building plenty of cats.
We took and razed Knossos.
Our army is closing in on Alex's next city in the south.

I'm a bit worried about a couple of things.
First - I got us a Medic I out of the GG, but not Medic III, unless I'm missing something and this just comes along after more promotions.
Second - I feel we're a bit lightly defended in our heartlands now- and Hanni's coming our way with Numids!

Detail
T190 (350)
Start moving forces towards Knossos (but must wait for another cat to arrive before we move in)

IBT
Barb sword approaches the horses by Kumbi
A Gt Eng is born somewhere in the world.

T191
Kumbi produced chariot. Starts barracks.
Chariot heads NE to explore.
Axe moves up from London ready to intercept barb sword.
I can see that Knossos now has a C1 phalanx, in addition to the 2 archers. :(
Another cat is heading south towards Iron City - but I think I now need more before hitting Knossos.
Worker from York heads to hill east of London to start chop&mine.

Tech to 0%.

IBT
Barb sword arrives on our horses.
Alex attack party sidles up towards the iron. 2 C2 Horse Archers!
Hanging Gardens are buit somewhere.

T192
Spear from Nottingham heads down to help at Iron City.
New axeman in Nottingham - sits on mined hill outside.
Nottingham starts a cat.
Spear in Iron City moves to forest-hill to prevent HA incursion.
Workers chopping the forest here.
Workers also chopping hill east of London.
Chariot exploring around Alex city in far north. Horses outside of the borders.
2 Chariots from Kumbi exploring east.

Tech to 100%.

IBT
Alex's HAs disappear from view.
Barb archer walks out of Parthian - heading west, so doesn't bother me.

T193
Chariot in far north spies on Cherokee (Alex) and it's not pretty. Multi-promoted Phalanx and Axeman, trireme and galley.
168266
3rd cat has joined the stack ready to advance on Knossos.

T194
New cat in York. Heads south.
New spear in London. Stays put.
Exploring chariots still on the move. Northern one returning, having seen to N tip.
Force of 3cats 2 axes 1 spear stands outside Knossos. Another spear coming up behind.

Tech to 0%

IBT
Skirmisher from Timbuktu ran down road and killed one of our chariots.

T195
We hit Knossos. Cat1 killed archer. Cat2 withdrew. Cat3 killed phalanx. Axe killed last archer.
Knossos razed. We got 28gold.
Alex has 3 HAs & a cat just the other side - just too late to save his city.
I decided I had to leave our axeman to die, rather than put 2 more units with him that would probably all die.
Our remaining forces hide in the woods, ready to mince up any HAs that remain unprotected.
Timur (our Gt Gen) appears in London and heads to Iron City to teach his medic skills to somebody.

IBT
Fabulous military skills from Alex. He kills our axeman, but then goes on to attack our fortified spear in the woods.
Having lost, he leaves his remaining forces in the open beside our units.

T196
Oh! My military skills are obviously just as fabulous.
Tried hitting Alex's stack with a cat, but it lost instead of withdrawing and caused no collateral damage.
So I thought better of continuing this approach and backed off the remaining units where they were joined by Timur.

IBT
Barb archer killed himself attacking our archer outside Parthian.
Alex's forces are sitting and healing.

T197
New cat in Nottingham heads south.
Workers have completed chop by Iron City - finishing Granary - and now begin mining.
Workers by London also complete chop and start mining.
New cat London heads south.
Timur joins spearman amongst our attack force as a warlord.
Assigned experience points. Not really sure about this. Nobody got the option of medic III. Just a medic I. Have I done this wrong?
Cats got CR3.
Started cats in Nottingham, London. Barracks in Iron City.

IBT
Alex has an archer wandering around near Kumbi. That won't bother us much.

T198
Our attack force starts to head south.
New cat in York heads south to join the fun.
Workers have completed farm - now head to jungle hill east of London.
York switches from Cows to farm (but now they are stagnating) and London switches to cows.

T199
Attack force continues south.
Chariots exploring.
Axe from Nottingham heads to Iron City in case of trouble.

IBT
A bunch of Numidians (3 plus a chariot) have shown up in the jungles to the east of London.
Alex's archer is still around near Kumbi.

T200
I send a couple of spears from London over to head off the Numids in the jungle. They both have WoodsI.
168267
Main force is in the forests just outside Alex's borders in the south.
More cats are streaming south to join them.

Official Save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Geezers_SG006_AD0500_01.CivWarlordsSave

Session Turn Log
Here is your Session Turn Log from 350 AD to 500 AD:

Turn 190, 350 AD: Charles Augustin de Coulomb (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 191, 365 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!

Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Swordsman (3.87)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 88.4%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Swordsman!

Turn 193, 395 AD: Miles Davis (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher (4.00) vs Churchill's Chariot (5.00)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Combat Odds: 33.0%
Turn 194, 410 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 194, 410 AD: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher has defeated Churchill's Chariot!

Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.65)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 61.0%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.09)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 68.8%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (67/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (46/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Timur (Great General) has been born in London (Churchill)!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Phalanx (4.20)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 82.5%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Alexander's Phalanx!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (2.07)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 25 (21/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 195, 425 AD: You have captured Knossos!!!
Turn 195, 425 AD: You have destroyed the city of Knossos!!!
Turn 195, 425 AD: The borders of Nottingham have expanded!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Churchill's Axeman (5.50)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 77.3%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Churchill's Spearman (10.80)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 9.9%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Feature: +20%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Horse Archer!

Turn 196, 440 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Iron City.
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Catapult (3.55) vs Alexander's Horse Archer (7.20)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Combat Odds: 0.8%
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (46/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (21/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 196, 440 AD: The borders of Iron City have expanded!
Turn 196, 440 AD: Barbarian's Archer (3.30) vs Churchill's Archer (6.15)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Combat Odds: 0.9%
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Barbarian Combat: +5%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 198, 470 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Iron City!
Turn 198, 470 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Kumbi Saleh!
Turn 198, 470 AD: Hannibal adopts Vassalage!

Turn 199, 485 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Iron City!

Turn 200, 500 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Iron City!
Turn 200, 500 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Kumbi Saleh!

Autolog
Turn 190/660 (350 AD) [27-Jan-2008 10:50:48]
Kumbi Saleh finishes: Chariot

IBT:

Turn 191/660 (365 AD) [27-Jan-2008 10:57:11]
Kumbi Saleh begins: Barracks (11 turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
London grows: 7
A Hamlet was built near London
Nottingham finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 192/660 (380 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:08:39]
While attacking in English territory at Kumbi Saleh, Axeman defeats (4.20/5): Barbarian Swordsman (Prob Victory: 88.4%)
Nottingham begins: Catapult (5 turns)

IBT:

Turn 193/660 (395 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:23:40]
Spearman promoted: Combat I
London finishes: Spearman
York finishes: Catapult
Kumbi Saleh grows: 3

IBT:
Attitude Change: Hannibal(Carthage) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 194/660 (410 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:29:49]
London begins: Catapult (8 turns)
York begins: Catapult (5 turns)
Nottingham grows: 8

IBT:
While defending in Malinese territory at Timbuktu, Chariot loses to: Malinese Skirmisher (0.48/4) (Prob Victory: 67.0%)
Attitude Change: Hannibal(Carthage) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 195/660 (425 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:42:00]
While attacking in Greek territory at Knossos, Catapult defeats (3.10/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 61.0%)
Timur (Great General) born in London
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Greek territory at Knossos, Catapult defeats (2.15/5): Greek Phalanx (Prob Victory: 82.5%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Knossos, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
Judaism has spread: Knossos
Captured Knossos (Alexander)
Razed Knossos
Knossos lost
Spearman promoted: Woodsman I
York grows: 6
Nottingham's borders expand

IBT:
While defending in the wild near Hippo, Axeman loses to: Greek Horse Archer (0.90/6) (Prob Victory: 22.7%)
While defending in the wild near Iron City, Spearman defeats (2.08/4): Greek Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 90.1%)

Turn 196/660 (440 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:52:18]
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
Catapult promoted: City Raider II
While attacking in the wild near Iron City, Catapult loses to: Greek Horse Archer (6.00/6) (Prob Victory: 0.8%)
London finishes: Catapult
Nottingham finishes: Catapult
Iron City's borders expand
Iron City finishes: Granary

IBT:
While defending in Barbarian territory at Parthian, Archer defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.1%)

Turn 197/660 (455 AD) [27-Jan-2008 11:59:46]
Timur (Spearman) promoted: Lead by Warlord
A Farm was built near London
Timur (Spearman) promoted: Medic I
Catapult promoted: City Raider III
Catapult promoted: City Raider III
Spearman promoted: Medic I
London begins: Catapult (8 turns)
Nottingham begins: Catapult (5 turns)
Iron City begins: Barracks (75 turns)
York finishes: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 198/660 (470 AD) [27-Jan-2008 12:11:32]
York begins: Catapult (5 turns)

IBT:
Civics Change: Hannibal(Carthage) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'

Turn 199/660 (485 AD) [27-Jan-2008 12:19:58]

IBT:

Turn 200/660 (500 AD) [27-Jan-2008 12:22:30]
Spearman promoted: Woodsman I
Spearman promoted: Woodsman I

I looked at the save, it looks like you joined the warlord to the whole stack so that the xp was spread out. When you want all of the xp to go to one unit, it has to be alone in the tile. Timur will eventually promote to medic 3 but he needs to earn a lot more xp. Sorry, I didn't explain more fully.

Looks like we need a lot more spears.

I looked at the save, it looks like you joined the warlord to the whole stack so that the xp was spread out. When you want all of the xp to go to one unit, it has to be alone in the tile. Timur will eventually promote to medic 3 but he needs to earn a lot more xp. Sorry, I didn't explain more fully.

Looks like we need a lot more spears.

Apologies.
That's my inexperience showing.:blush:

Urgh, our tactical situation at London is not good, those Numis are well promoted. I believe we will lose the spice plantation and will need to do some whipping or risk London itself. I was hoping Hanny would be attracted to iron city, looks like his main attacks will still be aimed at London. Unfortunately, there is not a 1-tile pinch point in the mountains, so we need to defend two tiles (yellow dots).

168277

My thoughts on defending the current attack.


If the spears are going to defend the pass, then they need to split up... one spear to each yellow dot. Otherwise, he simply goes around them.
The spears currently show only 32.9% attacking the Numi. If we plant them on the jungle hills, they will get +95%. Not sure what that does for our overall odds, maybe makes us +60-70%? At best, Hanny loses 1 unit overrunning one spear. The other can't even counterattack the wounded Numi (since they will be in a stack).
I think we need to mass a small SOD at green dot, and let Hanny have the spices. He moves to a yellow dot, then moves and pillages next turn. At that point, his units can be counter attacked from green dot.
His Numis get a +50% on cats, but only attacking. This is why we want to hit him first.
There is a cat south of London, it can get back in time. The cats in London and Nottingham can be whipped next turn and get there too. If we bring the spears back, bring the axe NE of London, and bring the axe from copper, then we should have enough units to kill his stack.


My thoughts on longer term defense of London:


If we don't defend the yellow dots, then we will lose spices every time he comes to London. I think we need to defend both. I would be tempted to put a stack on one yellow dot and hit him when he moves to the second since Numis don't get terrain bonus. However, if he ever brings a mixed stack, this would be a problem. We are better served putting stacks on both and letting him attack us fortified on advantageous terrain.
I think we need a spear, archer, axe combo on each yellow dot. Lots of units, but I don't see a great alternative.
We should get our workers to road all of the jungle tiles so we can move and respond to breakthroughs.
An alternative (may be better) is to abandon the spices (don't rebuild the plantation). We simply defend London from green dot going forward.



By the way, a couple of other things I noticed:


Cherokee has a galley, I think we need to be wary of units being dropped by York. Maybe a spear should be added to the mix in York. Another option is a small reserve force on the cows. It can move to London or York in response to attacks.
Kumbi is not working the horses (maybe from the sword attack?). I will switch back.
I'd sure like to kill that wounded HA of Alex's. Not sure there are enough unit nearby. We will need to get a spear or two into Iron City before they are rested up. Pretty sure they are heading our way.


I think I'm next? I don't think there are major decisions to be made since CS will not finish. However, I'd like input on the defense of London (short and long term).

Clearly, the defence of London is now paramount, but still a tad concerning that by 500AD, we still have no decisive advantage over any other AI.

Whilst I was not against razing Knossos and sending some troops southwards I must admit I didn't expect so many to be sent to the south, especially something like half of our spears. Iron city's defence, or lack of it, is particularly dismaying. Let's hope Alex doesn't have a spare HA hanging around. :rolleyes: I think a fair chunk of the force in the south needs to head back.

It seems to me that we need to hunker down and build up our military until we have sufficient to defend our cities and send out a decent attack force against the AI. Whether or not the AI will allow us to do this is another matter. To an extent this game is starting to look like the last game where we had insufficient troops to sustain an attack into enemy lands.

In retrospect, it looks like we were nowhere near powerful enough to head off on the offensive. I was playing this like it was 500BC and not 500AD.

I think this again shows that we are all at different experience levels at CIV, and I am probably the least of the team. Assuming I am going to continue as a Geezer, I would recommend that I elicit much closer level of detail when preparing for my turnsets in future.

I stuck pretty much to the plan I outlined beforehand, but I guess the plan missed out such factors as (a) how much of a defence force to leave behind and (b)How big an attack force to send off after Alex.

Let's not panic and get carried away. The AI is not the most intelligent player in the game. We switch Notts and York to spears and whip the following turn. London can finish the cat and produce a spear that can be whipped if Hanni's stack actually comes for London. It would not surprise me if they turn north or wander around a little. I would try the spear wall in the mountains first. The Numids will split up once they get to the spices and we will have to chase them around.

At most, I would bring 1 medic spear back to iron city and let the cats/axe going south continue and link up for an assault. Alex has that stupid barb city in the north and with HA wandering about as well, his cities can't be well defended. Lets put Alex on the defensive, his HA will not know whether to return home or continue to iron city.

Notts can work the cow island now to help regain the pop or grow slowly and work the hills.

Erikthecelt does have a point. This is not Beyond the Sword, so the AI does not have a semi-intelligent military advisor. But this IS Always War, so there will always be huge armies. And the armies only get huger. If we have not made some telling blows by 1000 AD, we will be overwhelmed by endless tsunamis of macemen and knights, as precursor to the asteroid impact of a stack of 30 musketmen that will arrive after that.

Well, we are facing the results of our approach now. We had an extraordinary approach for an AW game. We decided to focus on economy and this means less military resulting in the AIs building up, too. I have never played an AW game like this, so this game is quite a learning experience for me for this type of game. I do not think that anything is lost. Just a few Nums coming for a visit is nothing to worry about. BTW did I mention that I am more concerned about Hanni than Alex ? :rolleyes: Build spears and whip them if necessary. Nums are excellent pillagers, but they lack in taking cities, so I do not think that our cities are in danger. They should not be able to do anything against our protective archers fortified in cities and we should be able to pick them up with spears. Pillaging in AW games is hard to avoid, so this is something we had to expect.

I can just repeat what I have been saying. We have to keep razing cities and quick. As long as there is room to settle the AIs do not switch to full military according to my experience. They can still be handled. We have to keep the AIs busy outside of our borders, otherwise we will go down. There will always be occasional units slipping through, but this can be handled. We have an excellent strategic position, so we should make use of it. I have mentioned before that we should fortify units in the mountains at London, btw.

So, don't get pessimistic ! Nothing is lost, but we have to get going quickly. Don't be afraid to whip if necessary. We have a high happy cap and can regrow cities fast.

Roster:

Mark
Harbourboy
Sam
AgedOne - just played
The-Hawk - UP !
Erik - on deck

Just checked the stats on Nums again. The most important things for us that they are reduced in strength and have -10% on city attack, so the current three Nums will not harm our cities as long as we have 2 defensive units in our cities. Now we have to make sure they do not pillage too much.

At most, I would bring 1 medic spear back to iron city and let the cats/axe going south continue and link up for an assault.

Surely the medic spear should stay with assault force to help heal the inevitable wounded units whilst one of the other spears is sent to Iron city?

Surely the medic spear should stay with assault force to help heal the inevitable wounded units whilst one of the other spears is sent to Iron city?

I believe there are 2 medic spears in the stack.

OK, I will play tomorrow night. Pretty simple turn-set plan:

- Defend London (duh! ;))
- I agree with Mark that we should look for opportunities to press on the attack. Since our stack is near Alex, I'll pop down and see what is defending his city. If it can be taken, I will raze it. If it looks ugly, I'll hightail back for more units.
- Build military everywhere.
- No research decisions scheduled this turn.

I had a look at the save yesterday. Good work AgedOne.:goodjob:

Did anybody switch to vassalage ? I do not read the ingame logs, so I maybe I missed it. If not chances are big that the AI is still defending with archers. All the more a point to be aggressive. The stack we have at the Greek borders definitely should look for the opportunity to raze the city there.

Have fun with the Nums, Hawk ! :)

I had a look at the save yesterday. Good work AgedOne.:goodjob:

Did anybody switch to vassalage ? I do not read the ingame logs, so I maybe I missed it. If not chances are big that the AI is still defending with archers. All the more a point to be aggressive. The stack we have at the Greek borders definitely should look for the opportunity to raze the city there.

Have fun with the Nums, Hawk ! :)

As I recall, Hanni just switched to vassalage, on the last turn of the set.

Summary

Did 11 turns because a battle was imminent.
Played lots defense, killed lots of AI units :D . Body count:
Killed: 6 HA’s, 3 Numis, 2 Chariots, 3 cats.
Lost: 4 cats, 1 spear, 1 axe (also lost two scouting chariots)
Built a force to go after alex, but the AI’s have longbows now. :(

Turn 0

Whip cats
Kumbi citizen works horses
Move two axemen towards london

IBT

Alex HA pops out of fog and kills a chariot
Largest civs:

1) unknown
2) unknown
3) Mansa the wussy
4) Geezers the Great!
5) Alex the snot-nosed brat.
6) Hanny the fanny
7) unknown
Turn 1 (515 AD)

York, Nott, London all cat -> spear
Collecting units on jungle hill
Move one spear to peak at alex, find Thebes defended by a sword and phalanx. One spear heading back to iron city, other units move up to begin bombard.
Decide to let the axe and two chariots by iron city loiter until we get some defense in place.

IBT

Alex HA coming at London from near Kumbi – will lose dyes
Alex HA appears near stack by Thebes
Numis still coming towards London

Turn 2 (530)

Kill HA by Thebes with spear
Scout Timbukto – 4 skirms and Walata – 2 skirms

IBT

Hanny axe kills spear by Thebes, axe is joined by 2 chariots and a numi
Numis pass spice to go for London. I guess our capital guarded by a lonely archer is too tasty to ignore ;) .
Alex HA plunders dye near London
Axeman joins defense of Thebes
Yet another Hanny chariot and cat are heading for london

Turn 3 (545)

London spear -> spear
Nott spear -> cat
Decide Thebes needs to wait, consider trying to kill Hanny stack, but decide not to risk the warlord (Alex would clean up the wounded survivors). Thebes stack heading back for iron city. Could have razed Thebes if Hanni hadn't shown up. :mad:
Spear kills alex HA on dyes
Cat kills Numi
Cat dies attacking Numi
Cat dies attacking Numi
Cat kills Numi
Spear kills chariot
Spear kills numi

IBT

Hanny chariot and cat coming on

Turn 4 (560)

Kumi barracks -> spear
send axe and spear out to mountain.

IBT

Alex 2 HA and cat near iron city still healing.
Alex sends another 2HA and cat stack towards London
Hanny stack chasing our stack retreating from Thebes.

Turn 5 (575)

Axe kills Hanny cat (near London)
Spear kills Hanny chariot
Scout Gao – two longbows defending :sad:
Thebes stack near iron city with hanny in hot pursuit,. Send a spear out to join the stack in case hanny tries to run them down.
Whip spear in London. Whip cat in nott

IBT

Alex northern stack seems to be bypassing London, heading for Kumbi or dyes pass
Alex southern stack healed and moving towards iron city.

Turn 6 (590)

London spear -> cat
Nott cat -> cat
Attack southern Alex stack
Cat dies attacking HA
Cat withdraws attacking HA
Axe kills cat
Spear kills HA
Axe kills HA

IBT

Alex Northern stack (now only stack ;)) moves in towards London.
Hanny stack south of iron city breaks off attack and disappears.
Alex has rebuilt a city SE of iron city.

Turn 7 (605)

Not enough units to defend the mountains, decide to abandon spice again. They should pillage this time since they have a cat in stack.

IBT

Alex stack turns south again
Confus spreads to Kumbi

Turn 8 (620)

Send one spear to join loan archer at choke point SE of London in case Alex is heading here.
Decide to send a couple of other units south so we can get back after alex

IBT

Scouting chariot killed
Alex stack turns back north towards london. Wishing he would make up his mind so I can kill him.

Turn 9 (635)

London cat -> axe (want one for the choke point)

Turn 10 (650)

Nott cat -> cat

IBT

Kumbi spear -> cat
Alex avoids spice goes to hill

Turn 11 (665)

Cat dies attacking HA
Cat withdraws from HA
Axe dies attacking cat
Spear kills HA
Spear kills HA
Spear kills cat


Next set

Hanny has a stack floating around (1 numi, 2 chariot, 1 axe), last seen near iron city.
I’ve left a decent defense force in iron city (archer, cat, axe, spear, warrior). Decide we need to leave a cat in case hanny’s stack shows up.
Our offensive stack is ready to go check out the new alex city: 2 axe, 5 cats, 2 spears, warlord spear.
London has a decent defense force. I’d recommend we leave the mountain pass open and let them come through towards london where we can attack them in force from a hill outside London. In two attacks through the mountains, the AI bypassed the spice to go for “weak” London.
At this point, our scouting chariots seem too vulnerable. Wouldn't waste more hammers on them.
I would build all cats now. Cats can handle LB's, just need to bring a few extras. Only build spears and axes to replace lost defenders near London.
Tactical situation is not bad. If they keep attacking London, then we have a small front to defend. Let them come through the pass, kill them near the spices. Meanwhile, we attack alex to the south.

@The-Hawk - Sounds as though you had an enjoyable turnset. :D :goodjob: Pity about Thebes. :( Nice to hear that religion has spread to Kumbi. :)

I will look at the save tomorrow and post a plan (borrowing heavily from The Hawks notes :crazyeye: ) I think I will play 5 + 5 as there is a lot of action going on :lol:

I will look at the save tomorrow and post a plan (borrowing heavily from The Hawks notes :crazyeye: ) I think I will play 5 + 5 as there is a lot of action going on :lol:

Both ideas sound quite sensible. Looking forward to the plan.

Tech - up to 50% CS in 8 turns. Then Metal Casting.
Builds - Cats + a spear for escort duty to bring spears from iron city to the front.
Iron City will complete barracks will start a cat.

Workers to complete mines for London - will chop hill N of London next. Nottingham has been well whipped and will get unhappy citizens this turn set. I think I would like to start a worker there after the completeing the current cat and a second one as Kumbi could use some development as well as iron city. We could be producing a lot more hammers per turn. Any thoughts?

I think the current stack should take out Alex's new city and then move into Hanni's territory - see #1 in the attached map. I think I will accummulate a second stack to go to the hidden Alex city - see #2 and then proceed to take and hold Thebes (alternatively we should have a settler ready to settle after we raise Thebes).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/plan.JPG

(Plans got changed because of bad weather, so I got a chance for this tonight).

I agree a worker or two would be good, especially built in Nottingham which is on the happy cap.

I'd be wary of splitting into two forces. We are going to waste cats on the LB's, don't want to end up with two weak stacks that are too far apart to rejoin. I would keep feeding reinforcements to our one stack. If we get to a point where that stack is too big, then we can think about a second.

One other thought. Thebes is a good city (gold, iron, wheat, flood plains). We have CoL now, probably should consider keeping some of the better cities versus razing all. Anyone have thoughts on that? The more cities we have, the faster we build our army.

If we want to keep cities, I would attack Alex before Hanny (so we don't have exposure on both flanks). If we are razing everything, then it doesn't matter so much.

/Edit: can someone explain what 5+5 means?

@erik - I feel The-Hawk's thoughts on sticking to one stack and concentrating on Alex have merit. Should we be anticipating any trouble from either Parthian or Cherokee? Bear in mind that Alex might send try a naval landing from Cherokee. That worker on the iron looks somewhat exposed. :scared:

@The-Hawk - 5+5 (lifted from CRC team) is the idea of playing 5 turns, reporting back and/or posting the save and then playing another 5 turns. Keeping Thebes looks attractive provided we have enough troops to defend it adequately. It will be an expensive liability if Alex/Hanny can pillage it's improvements with impunity.

Good to see that still Alex and Hanny are smaller than us. I would agree to stick to one enemy at a time and one big stack. Let us grow the stack and maybe keep Thebes and Athens. With whipped courts they will be good and it will distract Hanny from our core.

Given the preference for a single stack, I am going to kill the elephant city (again) and then proceed West to the city in the fog (#2). I do want to let Alex start building elephants. I think the first 5 moves are enough to kill the elelphants and the second 5 will be healing and heading toward that costal city.

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.

I had noticed the exposed worker but he has a clear field of view and there are units in Iron City that can move to protect him. I'll move an archer out to guard the iron and maybe a spear after the elephants are gone. I'll probably route the reinforcements for the stack through the iron as additional protection.

Nottingham will switch to a worker after it reaches the happy cap and completes the unit it is producing. After the current cat, I'll see whether a spear, archer or cat will finish closest to reaching the cap.

I do covet Thebes, with the gold mine it will cover the additional expense and set us to eventually settle the elephants ourselves.

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.


Ok as long as you make sure Iron city has a decent defence between the stack moving away and the reinforcements turning up.

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.

This sounds OK. Elephant city is not really a priority. Might as well get at Alex's core asap.

I had noticed the exposed worker but he has a clear field of view and there are units in Iron City that can move to protect him. I'll move an archer out to guard the iron and maybe a spear after the elephants are gone. I'll probably route the reinforcements for the stack through the iron as additional protection.

Right... the worker can't be nabbed, he can see a threat coming. My thought was to mine the iron to make iron city more productive. There is some risk of pillaging, but I am banking on Alex being a non-factor pretty soon. Once Alex is under pressure, the threat of pillage should go down.

I am still here, but don't have anything useful to add at this stage. Don't get killed!

I played 5 turns - heading into the fog was a bad decision - there was no city there. It looks like we have to raise Thebes but it will be a challenge as Alex has a small stack approaching.
2 Alex HA's killed, no losses.

Here is the turn commentary:

Pre Turn 1665
Move archer to protect iron worker ( a galley could come out of the fog and grab it)
Move attack stack, Research – 50%
IBT - Parthian archer suicides on ours, Hannibal learns MC, Alex HA appears in the hills above Thebes

Turn 1 (680)
York: cat -- > cat
London Defense Force (LDF) – spears to jungle hills, cat to heal, cat to iron city, York cat to London – Parthian archer promoted Drill 2 – healing
Nott – Move cottage worker to hill for 2 hammers per turn and slower growth (can now produce a cat in less than 5 turns)
IBT – Alex HA to oasis, 2nd HA appears on hill

Turn 2 (695)
Stack moves, spears fortify in jungle hills, workers complete London mine (London grows next turn)
IBT – HA moves next to Iron City, 2nd HA follows

Turn 3 (710)
Stack moves – no city, it must be cultural boundry for Athens :mad:
LDF axe – spices (will stay there until some kind of threat appears somewhere)
IBT - HA retreats from Iron City spear :mad:

Turn 4 (725)
Promote IC cat to C1 – kill HA @ 22% (the healthy one) C2 Axe kills 2nd HA
Nott – Cat – Spear
Workers complete London mine (London now produces 16 hammers per turn)
IBT – Numi arrives near Iron City, Alex stack (2 cats, 1 HA, 1 sword) south of Thebes

Turn 5 (740)
Alex has C2 Phalanx on Thebes iron.
Iron City barracks - cat

Edit - Paint moved the text I had put in - the label Alex Stack is over top of our stack, Alex's is 2 tiles due south.

Here's the view around Thebes:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/Thebes.JPG

I want to see what Alex's small stack does - the cats may suicide on our stack. If things are ok I will kill the Phalanx (75% chance with C2 axe and pillage the iron). Then bombard Thebes. A second stack of 5 cats plus some spears will be ready in Iron City at the end of the next 5 turns.

I will play the next set of 5 turns tomorrow.

The GOTM web site is down so here is the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/Churchill_740-AD_Feb-01-2008_14-07-14.CivWarlordsSave

I played 5 turns - heading into the fog was a bad decision - there was no city there. It looks like we have to raise Thebes but it will be a challenge as Alex has a small stack approaching.
2 Alex HA's killed, no losses.


Well at the time it seemed likely that there was a city in the fog. :shrug: We know Alex has at least one more city since the galley & trireme obviously didn't come from Thebes. Presumably this city (cities?) is not too far from the clams.


Edit - Paint moved the text I had put in - the label Alex Stack is over top of our stack, Alex's is 2 tiles due south.


:confused: I must be going blind because I'm blowed if I can see Alex's stack. All I can see is the phalanx.

Alex stack is in the fog, they vanished when I moved into the woods.

Forgot to mention this before... can we kill the barb city? Barb won't be producing archers forever. One of these days, he is gonna send an axe or mace. Why we don't finish them off with some units from the London Defense Force?

Things are looking interesting. I agree that it would be nice to get rid of Barbarian city soon as it will just be one less thing to worry about.

Looking forward to seeing us off bottom place some time soon.

I would just as soon take Parthian with culture. I am not at the point where I want to risk the LDF being caught away from home, nor do I want to divert troops from the attack on Alex and Hanni. Someone else can go for it.

Body Count

Alex: 1 Phalanx, 2 cat, 2 HA
Hanni: 2 Numi, 2 chariot, 1 cat
Mansa: 1 LB
Churchill: 3 cats, 1 axe

Our stack outside Thebes will heal in 4 turns, Iron City has a stack ready to move on Alex’s elephant city.

We are 2nd overall in hammers per turn (mfg goods) and 5th in most other demographics. We have more hammers than Alex, Hanni or Mansa. We are 5 in # of soldiers.

IBT (740) – nothing ???

Turn 6 (755)
York cat – cat
Axe kills phalanx outside Thebes (garrison – elephant, LB, HA, sword, 2 cats, phalanx)
IBT – 2 cats attack stack and 1 dies, 1 retreats, Numi suicides on Iron City archer

Turn 7 (770) tech 30% +1 CS in 3 turns
Kumbi cat – cat
London spear – archer
Nott spear – axe
Bombard Thebes and pillage iron mine (hope it’s the only metal Alex has).
IBT – Mansa LB kills out cat outside Thebes, Alex cat kills our cat, our cat kills Alex cat

Turn 8 (785)
Mansa LB kills our cat @ 68% odds, axe kills LB, stack retreats to forest
Iron Mine complete
IBT
Hanni stack approaches Iron City

Turn 9 (800)
Promote units in Iron City for Hanni’s stack, withdraw from Thebes (stack needs 6 turns to heal)
IBT – Islam has been founded

Turn 10 (815) revolt to bureaucracy – chose MC 24 turns
London archer -- sword
Cat kills Numi, Hanni cat kills axe, spear kills chariot, spear kills chariot, cat kills cat.
Thebes stack healing.

Looks reasonably successful. Metal Casting still 24 turns away? It all seems so slow in this game. What event coming up next will push us up to 4th in power then?

We are in anarchy right now, it will get better when we see what Bureaucracy does to London. Besides, this is a game of hammers and we are #2. There is a good stack in iron city ready to take out the elephant city and then link with the stack outside Thebes. The two are big enough to take on Alex.

In looking at the stats, I think that we are on the biggest continent with 3 AI and there are 2 AI on a second continent with the other one isolated (hopefully the wonder demon (Rameses maybe)). We should be thinking about Liberalism - Astronomy unless we can count enough squares on this continent to win by domination.

In the future I think it would be very helpful to post saves either just before or just after anarchy. In this case erik should probably have played until the anarchy was over.


Besides, this is a game of hammers and we are #2.


Not to mention being #1 compared to the civs we actually know. :D


There is a good stack in iron city ready to take out the elephant city and then link with the stack outside Thebes. The two are big enough to take on Alex.


Since Alex has elephants we need to make sure we pillage any camps to stop any more being built. I don't think the merged stack will be big enough. It may, just, be big enough to take Thebes.

We still haven't found Alex's capital and both Alex & Hanny are friendly with each other so we can expect further attacks from Hanny. Incidentally Hanny seems to be the tech leader. I wonder if we can expect to see carthaginian maces appearing in the not too distant future. :(


In looking at the stats, I think that we are on the biggest continent with 3 AI and there are 2 AI on a second continent with the other one isolated (hopefully the wonder demon (Rameses maybe)). We should be thinking about Liberalism - Astronomy unless we can count enough squares on this continent to win by domination.

I find it difficult to believe Gyathaar would make the game that easy. :shake:

Looks good. :goodjob:

Next time, please play one more turn until anarchy is over. ;)

I will assemble one big stack and go for Thebes. 8 or 9 cats should be enough to crush Alex now.

I like the sound of the word 'crush'.

Last warning ! I will play in about about 4 hours. Last chance for all of you to keep me from lowering our unit count !:rolleyes:

Last warning ! I will play in about about 4 hours. Last chance for all of you to keep me from lowering our unit count !:rolleyes:

What's happening with Alex's elephant city? Are you going to raze it to prevent Alex training any more elephants before you attack Thebes?

The units in Thebes were probably on their way to attack Iron City via the elephant city. You can probably expect to find some of them there as I deliberately withdrew from Thebes cultural border. You can also expect to see some Hanni troops coming through there as well. So far, it's been stacks of four units, so if you do bypass the elephant city, be sure to leave a pair of cats in iron city along with some spears. You will need them.

Good luck and happy hunting!

I am in turn 8 and we have the following situation. We can take or raze Thebes. I stopped for asking the team. I would raze it. It is too far away from our lands, so reinforcing it will be difficult. I would use the momentum, get the 3 northern cats and swords to the party and continue on Athens.

I am in turn 8 and we have the following situation. We can take or raze Thebes. I stopped for asking the team. I would raze it. It is too far away from our lands, so reinforcing it will be difficult. I would use the momentum, get the 3 northern cats and swords to the party and continue on Athens.

It would be quite nice to keep Thebes but I think I have to agree with your assessment that it should be razed. :sad: It's high time we started making headway against the AI. :hammer: Alex & Hanny would only pillage the improvements anyway.

I am in turn 8 and we have the following situation. We can take or raze Thebes. I stopped for asking the team. I would raze it. It is too far away from our lands, so reinforcing it will be difficult. I would use the momentum, get the 3 northern cats and swords to the party and continue on Athens.

I vote for burning!
Basically, we only keep capitals or cities with something very special.
Thebes is nice, but not that special.

Burn baby Burn.

Ok, will finish tomorrow evening.

I vote for burning!

Burn baby Burn.

Wow! what a bunch of pyromaniacs :rolleyes: .

I would lean towards keeping Thebes in this situation (to accelerate our unit production). But I understand the concern about diverting units to protect from pillagers. Might as well keep the whole army moving forward. We can alway resettle the spot once the AI's are under control.

Initially I also thought of keeping Thebes, but we have no road and it takes 4 or 5 turns until reinforcements will be able to get there. Another concern is that Hanni just adopted bureaucracy. We have to pay him a visit soon, otherwise we will face maces.

I agree that the pillaging would be a distraction and would reduce the effectiveness of the city for us. Damage to the AI and denial of resources are more important to us at this point.

IBT : nothing

1) 830AD : we are a bureaucracy now
just move some units

IBT : our retreating stack is followed by a Greek War Elephant, 2 Carthage chariots, Num and Axe

York : cat -> cat
Nottingham : axe -> cat

2) 845AD : more troops movement. will take out that stack before I advance

IBT : London : sword -> sword
Nottingham : cat -> cat

the cultural boundaries of Kumbi have expanded

3) 860AD : asssemble a stack of 3 axes, 4 spears and 7 cats

IBT : Hanni suicides a Num and chariot on our stack
the second chariot tries to pass our stack towards our iron, the axe retreats

Another Num appears W of Iron city

Kumbi : cat -> worker

Hanni adopts bureaucracy

4) 875AD : kill Hanni's chariot

stack starts moving towards Thebes

IBT : Alex' War Elephant and the Num are now at the gates of iron city

iron city : cat -> cat

5) 890AD : the spear that killed the Carthaginian chariot is promoted to Medic II

mm for more gold, so we can maintain research at 40% , MC in 17

IBT : Num loses to spear in iron city
Greek war elephant kills archer in iron city

London : sword -> axe

6) 905AD : spear kills the phant

IBT : York : pult -> pult
Nottingham : pult -> archer

7) 920AD : advance on Thebes, defenses : longbow, sword and phalanx

IBT : Mansa has a cat down there and kills one of our cats ????? :confused:

8) 935AD : stop here for discussion
bombard Thebes

IBT : London : axe -> pult

9) 950AD : bombard Thebes to 0%
1st cat dies attacking Thebes
2nd cat dies attacking Thebes
3rd cat dies attacking Thebes
axe kills longbow
axe kills sword
axe kills phalanx and Thebes is burnt for 140 gold

we have our second general, move him to London. I would settle him there, but leave it to the team to decide whether we want our super medic now.

Athens must be SW of our current position. If we are lucky Alex has no metals anymore and we will face archery units and phants only. His phants city is quite young, so it should not be able to build phants fast.

That looks like progress, markh. 140gold in the bank, and Alex just might be crippled! :goodjob:

Bit of bad luck with cats there, tho. First Mansa's visiting cat that killed one. Then all 3 attackers die instead of withdrawing. Bad RNG!

I think we're definitely going to need a super-medic, and I say that with much more wisdom now than when I made a complete hash of creating the previous one. :blush: I have now created super-medics no fewer than 3 times in other games. So I know how to do it properly, and also I have seen how useful they are if you're going on a killin spree!

Good job on Thebes Mark - are you finished or are you pausing for a decision on the warlord? We could try and get 2 super medics if we put both medic spears in the one tile, they will get 10xp each and the warlord should join with the non warlord spear. I would not be adverse to setlling in London though. We can produce a tougher group of cats with it.

Medics are essential in order to keep our stack rolling. More important that being able to pump out more or stronger units initially.

It is even number of turns and we have to decide whether we continue on Athens or turn East, so I will not play more turns. Harbourboy can now make Alex disappear or start a campaign on Hanni. :p My feeling says continue on Alex, though. :trouble:

Razing Athens should give us enough gold to get MC and machinery within the next 2 turnsets. We badly need maces and crossbows. Hanni is already a bureaucracy, so we will see maces in the not too far future. In any case I would mm our cities now to get mc and machinery fastest possible. Our unit output is still ok.

I am not sure on the super medic. We now have three medic spears in our main stack. One of them is medic II. Furthermore it would take some turns to get the general join the stack moving him through much land we do not control. I think I would settle him in London or York to get units with 2 promotions. Especially CRII cats will do much better than the cats we had for Thebes.

Roster:

Mark - just played
Harbourboy - UP
Sam - on deck
AgedOne
The-Hawk
Erik

Plenty to think about here. Give me your ideas and I will formulate a master plan! Although having just come of G Minor 34, I'll be expecting to have Modern Armour at my disposal, plus maybe one or two Stealth Bombers.

Although having just come of G Minor 34, I'll be expecting to have Modern Armour at my disposal, plus maybe one or two Stealth Bombers.

:rotfl: In your dreams. :lol:

Alex's elephant city is connected by numerous roads to Alex's other cities. Since it's not feasible to pillage all the roads I suggest that the axe, sword and cats by Iron city are used to raze elephant city and any camps.

Although this will delay reinforcements down south I think it's worth it. In any case the southern attack force need to heal anyway. I agree with mark that we should concentrate on Alex for the time being and leave Hanny until later. We just need to make sure we leave a decent defence force to fight off any Hanny incursions.

Since the GG is in London we might as well use him as an instructor. Now that we are more active on the war front we'll hopefully get another GG in the not too distant future.

Can we please ensure that the medic spears only get medic promotions. :please: We don't want our medic units to be strong units. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Machinery for the next tech please since we'll need some maces against Hanny.

I agree with keeping after Alex. There are three ways to do that. The stack can go NE, SE or SW.

SW takes us to Athens and will kill Alex's most productive city, but it leaves the stack far away from home and we have a difficult choice to make on keeping it or not. If we keep, we'll need most of the stack and 20 turns to subdue the revolt as it's currently size 16.

SE takes us to his next largest city (probably) but we won't want to keep it and it leaves us closer to Hannibal. A second stack of reinforcements could raise the elelphant city and link with this stack to go after Hannibal. Alex is going to thinking about resettlement and not about attacking us.

NE brings the stack back to the elephant city, with a stack capable of taking and holding elephant city. It's probably size 5 or smaller so it will have no infrastructure but it will allow us to build elephants to counter the crossbows that are coming soon. We are closer to our territory so reinforcements can link up at will. It will not deliver a knockout blow to Alex.

I think all choices have real benefits and each has an associated problem for us to solve.

Alex is still producing a lot more hammers than Hannibal so I think we send the current stack with the cat that is closest to Athens. The sword and cat on the way should return to iron city. When we have a stack of six cats, sword, spear and axe we can attack the elephant city. I expect it has the units that weren't in Thebes, so probably 4 or 5 defenders including at least one elephant.

For the record, I think any of the three options will work for us.

Tech wise, machinery is a no brainer, followed by HBR and guilds.

London is working the lake instead of the mined hill, is this to speed up MC? We are at the health cap for London - do we want to whip a forge when MC is done and build an aqueduct later?

We should clear the forest in front of Iron City so it can't be used for defense by the AI.

HB - please detail worker plans as well as your build and military plans, thanks.

Sorry, how do we know where Athens is? I can't see it at all in this save.

On a strategic note, if we are not really planning on taking and holding a city right now, then the decision should surely be to take out the capital. Unless this is unlike normal games and this capital is not in a capitally-like prime spot. But the aim here should be to cripple Alex permanently. So I am in favour of carrying on south west and finishing the job. No point backtracking now.

We have 3 workers, plus one on the way. Does one of them want to improve one more tile for Nottingham (still 25 turns away from needing it though)? York and Kumbi both also need improvements, and I agree that we need to take out the forest next to Iron City.

I am terrible at micro-planning. My brain just doesn't work that way. I'd much rather just play a couple of turns once the overall plan is agreed, and then check back for ideas if anything interesting happens.

London is working the lake instead of the mined hill, is this to speed up MC? We are at the health cap for London - do we want to whip a forge when MC is done and build an aqueduct later?

Yes, it is to speed up MC. We are in a race against the AI for maces. We will face them soon, so we have to keep the pace. Otherwise we will be in the same position as in the last games where we faced superior units due to our slow teching. We still produce 3 or 4 turn units in London. That is enough for the time being as we have a good number of units and any new unit does cost us more gold. The other cities build units quite fast, so I think it is ok to have our best science city do what it can to keep our science at a better level.

I already thought of building an aqueduct in London. 8 turns IIRC and whip a forge afterwards.

I would not turn around our stack NE. Afterwards it would have to go down again. I am not sure whether the stack is big enough for Athens, though. I would feel better with another sword and 2 - 3 more cats, but maybe I am just a bit too cautious. :dunno:

HB : guessing on the cultural borders Athens should be SW. I marked the possible positions in the screenshot I attached to my report.

Hannibal has just got CS and already had both MC and HBR so he is now working on machinery. We can expect Hanni to have maces within 5-10 turns and knights very shortly after.

I think we should reconoiter in force with the stack. If Athens is too well defended we can turn north and take out a smaller city and some of Hannibal. In this game we have an advantage over the AI in terms of hammers that we did not have in the Brennus game and I don't think you had in the previous GOTM. As well we played the economic game so we are not that far behind the AI. Alex has been sending a few units our way and he can't be building as many as we have (does not have the hammers).

@HB - pause when ever you like.

We have not heard from The-Hawk since Markh played that last set. I'd be keen to hear his views before we proceed, unless people think we need to be moving a bit more quickly.

We have not heard from The-Hawk since Markh played that last set. I'd be keen to hear his views before we proceed, unless people think we need to be moving a bit more quickly.

It's been nearly two days since the last turnset. I suggest you post a draft plan and allow another 24 hours for comments. By the time you actually play we'll be up to 3 - 3.5 days which seems a reasonable rate given that we have another two months before we have to finish.

@HB - I seem to recall that one of The-Hawk's recent posts was more of a strategic post. It might be worth seeing if it is still relevant.

We are not in a hurry, so take your time, HB.

Sorry gents, I've been going through a busy stretch at work. Getting home late, too tired to think. I've been reading along, but haven't looked at the save.

Sounds like consensus is continuing to maul Alex. I'm all for it, I think it is a mistake to let an AI recover when he is on the ropes. Let's whack him good. As long as Hanny doesn't get ahead in techs, I'm not too worried. If we have maces to face his, we will be fine due to poor AI tactics.

Typically, I would be keeping cities once I have CoL. However, the AW setting may require a different approach. It will be hard to defend lots of cities when all the neighbors are pillaging. So, I'd lean towards razing most of Alex's cities, unless we find a wonder. Once we start working into Hanny from his south, we can keep cities (Hanny's remaining cities are between us and Mansa). Once we are through Hanny and attacking Mansa, we can resettle in Alex's lands. I wouldn't pillage too much, certainly not his cottages. Pillage phants and metals, leave the rest for our future cities.

OK, my overall plan is:

Nottingham: build swordsman (in 1 turns time)
London: build axeman (in 3 turns time)
York: build catapult (in 3 turns time)
Kumbi: not sure (in 4 turns time)
Iron: not sure (in 4 turns time)

one worker to chop Iron city forest.
Other two are still busy but thought one could chop the Nottingham jungle

I aim to have the southern stack rest up for one turn for healing then head south west, joining up with the incoming swordsman. Plan is to see if the SW city is takable. No plans to pillage, mainly because we have no fast units, but may take out military resources and mines if the stack ever needs to stop.

I will be playing within 24 hours.

London - settle the General and build a chariot with Flanking 1 and Sentry as the next unit. The chariot should join the next attack stack or replacement stack. Do not let it travel alone. It will be the eyes for planning approaches and tactics. It can also pillage without slowing the movement of the stack.

I think the main stack needs two turns to fully heal and there is a good chance the Mansa cat will suicide IBT and you will need more time. If it doesn't you should kill it.

Are you going to build another attack stack in Iron City to go after the elephant city or are you going to send reinforcement/replacement stacks to join with the main stack before attacking anything?

Attack stacks should include 7-8 units 4-5 cats a spear, an axe and a sword. Plan your other builds to complete the stack. Replacement stacks should probably be axe or sword, spear and 3 cats for safe travel.

What are you going to do with the workers? Kumbi has two squares to be improved but only the rice needs a road for +1 health, so the rice should be first priority to grow London and allow the forge to be built. Cottages that can be worked on the river and the Kumbi spice would be the first priority if you want do as Mark suggests and MM to speed research.

Are you going to build another attack stack in Iron City to go after the elephant city or are you going to send reinforcement/replacement stacks to join with the main stack before attacking anything?

I would build another stack, but I doubt things will get that far in 10 turns as we will really only have another few units in that time.

IBT: Malinese catapult kills our Axeman!
Mansa Musa adopts Bureaucracy
Chichen Itza has been built in a far away land.

231 - 965 AD: Nottingham: Archer => Sword (4). Axeman kills Malinese Catapult. Worker starts jungle near Nottingham. Worker moves to jungle rice. Catapult and sword continue to join healing stack.

IBT: The Colossus has been built in a far away land.

232 - 980 AD: Southern stack now 99% healed so moves one SW to intercept arriving sword and catapult. Worker starts on jungle rice (which I now realise was not the rice you were talking about - so sorry about the inefficient worker action there). Worker moves to Iron forest.

IBT: Enrico Fermi has been born in a far away land. A Numidian shows up near travelling catapult and sword.

233 - 995 AD: London: Catapult => Axeman (3). York: Catapult => Catapult (5).

IBT: Taoism has been founded in a distant land. Numidian gets closer to our iron. Hmm. That's not very well protected.......

234 - 1010 AD: Kumbi: Worker => Spearman. Iron: Catapult => Spearman. Iron spear moves onto Iron mine to hopefully protect from Numidian.

IBT: Numidian withdraws from combat with our spearman. Our 3 known enemies have at least 7 techs on us now.

235 - 1025 AD: Nottingham: Swordsman => Swordsman (4). Our 1.1/4 Spearman defeats the 0.8/5 Numidian. Threat to Iron mine averted for now.

IBT: Nothing.

236 - 1040 AD: London: Axeman => Chariot (sorry, forgot that last time). Southern stack spots Athens. It is on a hill and currently guarded by 3 Longbowmen (1 x CG2) and a Phalanx. Our stack has 2 Swordsmen, 7 catapults, 2 axemen, and 4 spearmen.

IBT: Nothing.

Summary: I might stop here, but seeing as there are only 2.5 turns left in my set, I might as well hand over as well. The big decision now is what to do about Athens. Someone needs to work out the attacking odds and chance of success with our stack. Bear in mind the possible need to maneouvre around the river that blocks the direct attack route, which may take several turns. Note that Athens has Chichen Itza and carries 85% city defence now.

169088

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Geezers_SG006_AD1055_01.CivWarlordsSave

:hmm: I'm not certain but I have a sneaking suspicion that Athens may be on a one tile hill. :cry: I'm tempted to send our stack scouting for the rest of Alex's cities in the south. In the meantime we can send a stack out from Iron city to raze elephant city and then head south to join up with the rest of our forces.

Yes, I think we might a serious re-think of the Athens attack. Might not be optimal for us right now.

No, no, no. Keep it going HB. Our stack is more than enough to raze Athens. 7 pults will take anything. What do we want more ? 20 cats, 40 maces ? :rolleyes: Raze that city, even if we lose our complete stack (what I doubt BTW).

Our stack is more than enough to raze Athens. 7 pults will take anything.

Agreed. Once we bombard Athens down, we should have no trouble taking it, unless Alex brings some reinforcements. We have plenty of units, should only lose 4-5 cats unless we get unlucky.

Once we get a better look at Athens, we should discuss raze vs. keep. I would lean towards razing for all the reasons we've mentioned before. Also, Chicken Itzy does nothing for me. However, if Athens in the far SW corner of the island, we might keep it if it is high commerce or high production. We'll be turning to the East and North for the rest of Alex's cities, then on to Hanny. The pillaging risk at Athens will be much less if there are no AI cities fuurther to the S or W. Our SOD will be between the AI's and Athens.

My only worry is where are Alex's units? He is ahead of us on power, must have a stack somewhere.

Maybe they are on a galley coming around the long way.

My only worry is where are Alex's units? He is ahead of us on power, must have a stack somewhere.

IIRC the power graph gives a lot of weight to walls and LBs. ISTR pop size may also count as well.

This thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163098) gives the details.

Given the comments above can I assume that HB will play a couple more turns to move onto the hills so we can see more details of Athens' location or is that up to me now?

I figured you might as well carry on from here, seeing as we have stopped now anyway. My PC has been playing up a bit lately, so no guarantees it will even be working tomorrow.

Ok, unless anyone disagrees I'll play a couple of turns in a few hours to move onto the hills by Athens and then stop and post a pic for the team's edification.

We kept Alex in settling mode. He was always forced to resettle. According to my experience I doubt that he has a big stack. We should have seen it already.
The AI usually doesn't send big stacks via sea in galleys if they have a direct land route. ;)
I agree we should consider to keep Athens. It will be accessible from one side only, so it will be easier to defend it.

Ok, unless anyone disagrees I'll play a couple of turns in a few hours to move onto the hills by Athens and then stop and post a pic for the team's edification.

I'll be looking out for that picture.
Hopefully we'll have another one of Athens burning a little later!
7 cats should be devastating against 3 LBs and a Phalanx. I'd guess after bombardment and then collateral hits 1 or 2 defenders will die, and the others will be in small pieces ready for our swords and axes to take care of.

Well my guess about Athens neighbourhood was wrong. :blush: Thoughts?


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM06/Athens-1070AD.jpg

Well my guess about Athens neighbourhood was wrong. :blush: Thoughts?

Well. The area looks more useful than it might have been, which tempts us to keep it. On the other hand, the land goes on down into tundra - for how much further we don't know - which means future danger from the south if we keep.

I would still be inclined to smash the city, raze, and be content that Alex is no more and we can forget about the south and turn to the east - start working on Hanni.

Sam, how mature are those cottages? Hamlets? Villages? If they are pretty mature, then this is a decent site. I'd be inclined to keep it, although we could always come back and resettle it later.

Also, in your screenie it looks like an Alex unit(s) are sneaking up from behind. How many units? It might be a good idea to whack them before they join the city. Not sure if that is possible (next turn they should be able to move onto the hill next to you, might be hard to kill them there).

I would still be inclined to smash the city, raze, and be content that Alex is no more and we can forget about the south and turn to the east - start working on Hanni.


Don't forget Alex has Cherokee to the NW of Kumbi. In addition it seems pretty clear that he has at least one city to the SE.


Sam, how mature are those cottages? Hamlets? Villages? If they are pretty mature, then this is a decent site. I'd be inclined to keep it, although we could always come back and resettle it later.


Mostly villages with around 40 (ish) turns before becoming towns.


Also, in your screenie it looks like an Alex unit(s) are sneaking up from behind. How many units? It might be a good idea to whack them before they join the city. Not sure if that is possible (next turn they should be able to move onto the hill next to you, might be hard to kill them there).

It's just the one C2 sword which appeared a turn ago.

EDIT: I can upload the save if people want a closer look.

I am torn on razing or taking Athens, but I would slightly 50,01% favor razing. On the other side it would be a pity not keeping it. :dunno:

Edit : Wait I just changed my mind. It is size 16, so we can whip some units as soon as it gets out of revolt and it has good production capabilities. I would say keep it.

Draft turnset plan:

Whilst we decide what to do with Athens here's the rest of my plan/thoughts:


Use forces by Iron city to raze elephant city. What do we want this force to do afterwards? Wait for some more spears?
We now know MC. I've set the next tech to Machinery (20 turns). No beakers invested so far.
I suggest monastery (3 turns) in London next for the additional 10% science since we almost certainly need to get Astronomy. Follow by forge (7 turns) afterwards and :whipped: after a few turns? The rest of the cities keep pumping out military.
There's an axe on the way from Kumbi to protect the worker farming the rice.
Worker actions - Clear jungle N Iron city and cottage, mine hill SW Kumbi. Partially mine gold by Iron city?

Raze Elephant city and see whether we need more spears. Difficult to decide now.

I fully agree on research. We want maces asap. :hammer:

Hm, I rarely build monasteries, but I love forges.

I would not mine the gold hills at iron city, yet. We cannot work them now. I would clear more jungle and build cottages faster.

Is now the right time for a monastery?

Is now the right time for a monastery?

It's the extra 10% :science: to boost our research rate I'm after rather than the missionaries.

I cannot look at the save now. How many beakers is London producing ? In any case I think I would prefer a unit over a monastery or immediately start a forge. The 10% science does not really emphasize me to build a monastery. IMO we need units to overcome the AIs. We will lose some units on Athens and the sooner we can replace the lost units the sooner we can continue on our mission. ;) Infra can come later.

I cannot look at the save now. How many beakers is London producing ? In any case I think I would prefer a unit over a monastery or immediately start a forge. The 10% science does not really emphasize me to build a monastery. IMO we need units to overcome the AIs. We will lose some units on Athens and the sooner we can replace the lost units the sooner we can continue on our mission. ;) Infra can come later.

I think I'm with Mark, although 3 turns is not very long. I think we should build a forge, then units. Quicker Machinery would be nice for maces, but the monestary will not impact Machinery. The quickest way to Astonomy is to build our economy by capturing cities (versus adding 10% in London). We should be building all units until our continent is clear. I'd keep building cats until we have maces, then I'd build a mix.

:bump: What are people's views on Athens? So far AgedOne is for razing and mark is for keeping. I would like a bit more input on this subject before I play.

Before the game we talked a lot about focus. I think we should keep our focus. A forge is ok IMO as it increases our hammer output -> faster completion of units -> faster conquest. However I also would be ok to just continue building units.

I've been out sick for a few days, so I'm just catching up a bit.

Athens - It has Chicken Pizza and probably has an Academy - If we are going to take it, we should try and keep it. It will take a lot of whipping, starting with a courthouse. I think we'll need to clear the coastal fog before we can open a trade route to our other cities.

London Monastory - it only adds 3 beakers per turn at a cost of 1.5 cats - London is our major military production city. The cost of the forge is 3 cats. Let's keep spewing out cats.

I think we should consider keeping elephant city this time. Elephants make a nice counter to crossbows and maces are useless against them. After taking that city we should start in on Hannibal, there should be a city SE. eventually we can link the Athens contingent and the new units.

Why did we put worker turns into the rice between London and Iron City? I can see no use in that at all?

Our workers should be roading toward Elephant city now to speed up the reinforcements.

:bump: What are people's views on Athens? So far AgedOne is for razing and mark is for keeping. I would like a bit more input on this subject before I play.

I'm on the keep-it list.

Before the game we talked a lot about focus. I think we should keep our focus. A forge is ok IMO as it increases our hammer output -> faster completion of units -> faster conquest. However I also would be ok to just continue building units.

Yes, the only reason for a forge is it will give us quicker units. I think the payback (in the sense of number of units produced) is pretty quick.

I think we should consider keeping elephant city this time. Elephants make a nice counter to crossbows and maces are useless against them. After taking that city we should start in on Hannibal, there should be a city SE. eventually we can link the Athens contingent and the new units.

I've got mixed feelings. I like the idea of phant's but Alex's choice of location may not be optimal. I do not have access to the save at the moment, from a previous screenie, it looks like his city is on the SW phant? I would prefer a little further south (to get the cows). However, Thebes was also a decent site, so maybe phant city can be more to the north. Maybe someone can take a screenshot of the whole area (from Athens through phant city) and place some dots? Let's figure out where we want to end up, might help us decide whether we like phant city.

Wow, four Geezers on line at the same time... get ready for some crossposts! ;)

I think we should consider keeping elephant city this time. Elephants make a nice counter to crossbows and maces are useless against them. After taking that city we should start in on Hannibal, there should be a city SE. eventually we can link the Athens contingent and the new units.


Interesting idea. Anyone else in favour?


Why did we put worker turns into the rice between London and Iron City? I can see no use in that at all?


Agreed. It wasn't me wot did it guv. :p

Just checked a pic of phant city from erik's set. I do not like that location. It will have a lot of overlap with iron city. I would resettle it in a better location once we got Hanni out of that area or enough units to defend it properly.

Maybe someone can take a screenshot of the whole area (from Athens through phant city) and place some dots? Let's figure out where we want to end up, might help us decide whether we like phant city.


I don't have access to the save at present. Perhaps I should play a couple of turns more so that we know where Alex has settled this time and then post a pic?

A pic is on page 27, post 523.

A pic is on page 27, post 523.

Assuming Alex has settled on the elephants do we want to keep the city or not?

EDIT: Link to pic mentioned by mark above.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/plan.JPG

Uh, just saw that it will have just a one tile overlap with iron city, but still the location does not appeal to me. I am for razing it and resettle in a better spot.

Why did we put worker turns into the rice between London and Iron City? I can see no use in that at all?

I explained and apologised for that in my turnset summary. I misunderstood your instructions about hooking up rice to fix the health in London.

I explained and apologised for that in my turnset summary. I misunderstood your instructions about hooking up rice to fix the health in London.
OK, I read through everything too quickly.

Uh, just saw that it will have just a one tile overlap with iron city, but still the location does not appeal to me. I am for razing it and resettle in a better spot.

I agree it's not the best positioning but it will be 60+ turns before we can think of resettling. In the meantime we give up the opportunity to build phants and to create a centralized spot for gathering our assaut troops. With Chichen Itza and with our promoted archers it has reasonable defense.

Any other thoughts on elephant city?

I intend to play in a few hours but I'll break part way through for comments.


Sack Athens but don't raze.
Use forces by Iron city to raze elephant city.
We now know MC. I've set the next tech to Machinery (20 turns).
Start forge (7 turns) in London and :whipped: after a few turns. The rest of the cities keep pumping out military.
There's an axe on the way from Kumbi to protect the worker farming the rice.
Worker actions - Clear jungle N Iron city and cottage, mine hill SW Kumbi. Any other ideas?

This is a tough call. I did a dot map:

169193

I marked Athens in red and THebes rebuilt in yellow. I marked two potential phant sites (light blue - keep Alex's city) and pink (raze Alex's city) as an alternative. I think pink is a better city because it has more river grass tiles and the cows. However, two considerations about light blue:

- The Hanny site under the FOW (marked with a lame question mark) might be a good site and would overlap pink. If so, the light blue might be better. In fact, pink might be within two tiles of Hanny, so wouldn't be able to build it without razing him first.
- Light blue is right on the phants, so we get happyness and a nice unit without needing to build a camp. No risk of the phants being pillaged

With phant city so close to Hanny's FOW city, you'd think it will be a magnet for his attacks... not necessarily a bad thing, might let us turn iron city into a true producer without concern for pillaging.

I'm on the fence on this one...

- Light blue is right on the phants, so we get happyness and a nice unit without needing to build a camp. No risk of the phants being pillaged


:hmm: Light blue also has the advantage of being across the river from Hanny. If we kept it then it's quite possible the AI would not bother to cross the river before attacking. :evil:

I must admit I feel slightly more tempted to keep elephant city.

Considering we keep Hanni's city I would go with light blue and keeping the city.

We really must remember Murphy's law in relation to the AI. We've captured Athens & Pharsalos. However Hanny decided to send a couple of stacks towards Kumbi and the pass to the south,. Alex not to be left out, decided to land a mace and phalanx by York. :rolleyes: I've counter attacked this lot with a cat. Hopefully reinforcements will get there before it falls. :please: The mid-turnset save is attached for your perusal. I'll continue tomorrow evening.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Geezers_SG006_AD1112_01.CivWarlordsSave

I think it looks really good Sam. At Kumbi, protect the worker with a spear. Bring in as many cats as you can. Hanni will attack a little and bombard, so we have three turns to bring up all those troops that are on their way somewhere else.
At York, whip the axe and promote the archer. You can promote the warrior to an axe as well.

Alex is beaten and we are producing as many hammers as all three of our enemies. It should only be a matter of time now. The Athens stack finish off all of Alex's southern cities, he won't have more than 2 defenders each. The Pharsalos stack can start in on Hannibal.

Wow, you put a serious whupping on Alex, look at his power curve! :D

Athens first build should be a courthouse. We will come out of revolt into a starving city. Might as well have the first hammers go into a CH so we can whip it.

RE: the coming war for Kumbi and York. I was expecting a landing at York (which is why I wanted an archer there). I am amazed Hanny came to the north to attack. However, it doesn't look too bad. Soon he will be joining Alex below us on the power curve.

I agree with Erik's suggestions... definitely don't forget to promote all those unpromoted defenders. I would whip the axe in York, and upgrade the warrior to axe. I would also send the axe and cat W of London to York. My rationale... I don't think we should expect Alex to suicide his units attacking York. I bet he pillages the rice, then heads for the gold mine. If he does, we need to kill him before he reaches the hill. It prolly will take the extra axe and cat to kill both.

All other units near London have to head to Kumbi for the big showdown, including the extra spear in London. Once he suicides his cats on Kumbi, we will need the medic spear to recover. I think the London phant should be whipped right away (since he will take a while to get to Kumbi).

I might consider replacing the spear in Kumbi's queue with another phant. He can't be whipped the first turn, but we won't need him right away (if Hanny attacks first turn, he does us a favor). However, MM Kumbi to work the horses... we need hammers, not pop growth.

I'm OK with sending a spear to protect the worker, but next turn, the worker needs to scram and the spear needs to head back to Kumbi.

There is a chance Hanny will not attack. He might eventually head to the tile the worker is currently on, then move to pillage the horses. If he does this, I would let him move to the horse tile and pillage it, then kill him on that open ground.

Athens - It has Chicken Pizza and probably has an Academy

Five bonus points for Erik for calling this one! :goodjob:

How could you possibly know there was an Academy?

This is Warlords, so expect a lot of annoying pillaging. In BtS, they race much faster to your cities so you have less time to rally defenders.

Alex is philosophical, he is very likely to build an academy in the early stages of the game. Unlike The Hawk, I like playing as Alex and with Alex, he's predictable.

Expect Hanni do to something you would never do, like attack first with the small stack.

Looks pretty. :goodjob:

Not much to add to the suggestions already made. I would guess that Hanni will bombard the city defenses in Kumbi to 0% before attacking. Until then he will have joined his stacks, so make sure we have enough units there.;)

Further to what Hawk said, when Athens come out of revolt all of the starving citizens should be whipped out of existence on the first turn. With a pop that size you will probably have to whip more than just a courthouse. You can whip several buildings or units in the same turn and play with queue to get them to come out in the right order. If you don't whip them all, the hammers will be lost.

Nice going, Sam!
I just looked at our graph on the progress page and - there it is! The sharpest upturn in our fortunes since we began this game :) All we have to do is make every half turn as profitable as that and we have no worries at all ;)

Oh. And on the subject of Athens, I take it all back. Athens is definitely a 'keeper'.

Hopefully Alex is now a broken man and we are about to devote most of our time and efforts to the evil that is Hanny.

On another matter. I believe I'm up after Sam. Well, I'm very busy at work this week, but have next week off. Is there any chance of switching my turnset so that I play after Hawk, when I will have more time. At the moment I'm hardly able to even keep up with what's going on.

Is there any chance of switching my turnset so that I play after Hawk, when I will have more time. At the moment I'm hardly able to even keep up with what's going on.

Oh darn, if we switch, I'm gonna be forced to continue the whupping of Alex after Sam. Tooooo bad... you know how much I hate to beat up on my ol' pal Alex :mischief:.

Works for me... ;)

@The-Hawk
That's good.
Ok, so you get to drive the last stake through Alex's heart, but I'll have the fun of chasing Numidians all over the countryside. (Must remember. Hold palm out flat, with sugar lump in the middle)

Greek invaders by York destroyed. The bulk of Hanny's force by Kumbi is no more. From somewhere to the E of Iron city Alex has rustled up a couple of attack groups. Since I feel a bit brain dead at present I've uploaded the latest save to keep you all in the picture. I'll finish it off tomorrow as well as doing the writeup.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Geezers_SG006_AD1148_01.CivWarlordsSave

Awesome job Sam. I love what you've done to the power curves and the others. It would be real kind of Alex to siddle up to Pharsalos and let himself be slaughtered. I am so looking forward to your write up.:thumbsup: :bowdown: :clap: :worship: :hatsoff: :woohoo:

Sounds good, Sam. Don't tell me we're actually getting somewhere with this game!

1055 AD - 1160 AD

Summary
Athens & Pharsalos captured. Various greek and carthaginian invaders routed. More greek attackers near Iron city. Reinforcements on their way. Research has gone to pot.

Turn 237 - 1055 AD
Move stack towards Athens. Move axe on Kumbi towards worker on rice.

IBT: Alex sword appears to NE of stack.

Turn 238 - 1070 AD
We learn MC and start on Machinery. London chariot -> forge, Nottingham axe -> axe, York cat -> cat, Iron city spear -> axe. Move stack to gold hill E of Athens. Take SS and pause to consult with team.
Promote London chariot with Flanking 1 & Sentry and send southwards. Move sword, axe and cats towards elephant city. Axe arrives at Kumbi rice worker. Send worker to mine hill SW if Kumbi.

Turn 239 - 1085 AD
Nottingham sword -> sword. Bombard Athens.

Turn 240 - 1100 AD
Iron city axe -> axe. Complete reducing Athens defence to 0% and move majority of units across river. London forge is :whipped: for 2 pop. Worker SW Kumbi spies a couple of Hanny stacks (2 numidians,2 cats and 1 numdian, 1 sword, 1 axe, 2 cats) heading towards Kumbi. Spear in Kumbi, cat in York, and sword in Nottingham are all :whipped:. Move cat to hill SW Kumbi to discourage Hanny. Set research to 0%.

Turn 241 - 1106 AD
London forge -> sword, York cat -> axe, Notts sword -> cat, Kumbi spear -> axe. Promote Iron city spear to combat 2. Hanny seems to have decided to ignore the hill with the cat. Capture Pharsalos for no loss. :) Capture Athens, with academy, for the loss of a few cats.

IBT: Alex lands a C3 mace and a C3 phalanx by York. :rolleyes:

Turn 242 - 1112 AD
London sword -> elephant, Kumbi axe -> spear. Attack greek forces with York axe which retreats. Move forces towards York. Leave rice needing one turn so Hanny doesn't pillage it and move worker towards Kumbi. Pause to post save and consult with team. Promote York archer CG2, whip York axe and upgrade the warrior to axe. Promote Kumbi spears to C1 and the archer to CG2. Realise I forgot to pillage Athens copper. :blush. Dispatch cat from Athens to do this.

IBT: Greek phalanx moves towards gold hill whilst the mace pillages the rice.

Turn 243 - 1118 AD
Kill phalanx with axe. Reinforce the axe with another from York. York axe -> axe. Axe & cat by London go to York. Hanny seems to be trying a flanking movement to the north. His forces are now in 4 groups. In total his forces are comprised of 4 numidians, 5 cats,an axe, a sword, a chariot and a crossbow. The Kumbi worker is sent SW. The spear rejoins Kumbi. Pillage SAthens copper. Oops, I forgot to change Kumbi build to WE so I do this now. I also work the horses whilst moving further units towards Kumbui.

IBT: Greek mace attacks the axes by York and perishes.

Turn 244 - 1124 AD
Hanny is now advancing on a broad front towards Kumbi. I see Hanny's first mace. I move further units towards Kumbi. The WE in Kumbi is :whipped:.


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM06/KumbiSaleh-1124AD.jpg


IBT: One of Hanny's groups attacks Kumbi and loses a cat and a numidian.

Turn 245 - 1130 AD
Hanny has a couple of chariots in the vicinity of Pharsalos. Hanny now has 11 units next to Kumbi (3 numidians, 4 cats, a sword, an axe, a crossbow and a chariot). Kumbi has 10 units defending. Guess where the second front is....

IBT: Hanny attacks with all his force and loses 3 cats, one numidian and the crossbow. Kumbi loses two axes and two spears.

Turn 246 - 1136 AD
Pharsalos sword kills Hanny chariot that ventured too near. Kumbi defence looks a somewhat battered but Hanny's attack force looks in a worse state.

IBT: Angkor Wat is built somewhere. Kumbi defence kills a numidian, a chariot and a sword for no loss.

Turn 247 - 1142 AD
Hanny's attack force has shrunk to a mace, an axe, a cat and an undamaged numidian. Seems like Hanny has a slacker in his military. The Athens force has healed and moved to the eastern most hill ready to head for the greek lands to the east. Research is down to 30%.

IBT: Hanny mace kills defending WE. :mad:

Turn 248 - 1148 AD
Kumbi sword makes a sortie and kills the impudent mace. Our funds are so low I reduce research to 0%. From somewhere Alex has conjured two attack groups (1 mace, 1 WE, 2 HA and a cat with one HA and a cat in the other group) to the east of Iron city. Decide to pause for the night and post the save for the team.


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM06/GreekForce-1148AD.jpg


IBT: Hanny chariot moves to wood by Pharsalos. Hanny xroosbow kills archer in Pharsalos.

Turn 249 - 1154 AD
Greek forces have merged into one group. Unclear whethere they are heading for Iron city or the pass to the north. Kill chariot by Pharsalos with cat. Southern force moves into greek territory and ends next to greek WE.

IBT: Hanny's wretched chariot cat attacks Kumbi and manages to withdraw yet again. :sigh: Hanny crossbow kills cat by Pharsalos. Greek WE in south kills a spear.

Turn 250 - 1160 AD
Notts cat -> cat, Kumbi spear -> cat. I decide I've had enough of Hanny's force by Kumbi. Kill axe with WE. Cat dies against numidian. Sword kills numidian. Sword kills cat and Hanny's forces in the north are no more. It definitely looks like Alex is heading for Iron city. Move forces towards Iron city. Southern forces kill greek WE.


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM06/IronCity-1160AD.jpg


In retrospect I wonder if I should have handed over last night. I'm not sure that I made the right decisions for the last couple of turns.




New Log Entries
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Turn 237/660 (1055 AD) [10-Feb-2008 11:54:05]
Tech learned: Metal Casting
London finishes: Chariot
York finishes: Catapult
Iron City grows: 5
Iron City finishes: Spearman

Turn 238/660 (1070 AD) [10-Feb-2008 12:02:32]
Research begun: Machinery (20 Turns)
London begins: Confucian Monastery (4 turns)
York begins: Archer (4 turns)
Iron City begins: Axeman (6 turns)

New Log Entries
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Turn 238/660 (1070 AD) [11-Feb-2008 19:23:42]
London begins: Forge (8 turns)
York begins: Catapult (5 turns)
Chariot promoted: Flanking I
Chariot promoted: Sentry
A Village was built near London
Nottingham finishes: Swordsman
Kumbi Saleh grows: 5

Turn 239/660 (1085 AD) [11-Feb-2008 19:34:22]
Nottingham begins: Swordsman (4 turns)
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Iron City finishes: Axeman

Turn 240/660 (1100 AD) [11-Feb-2008 19:40:39]
Iron City begins: Axeman (6 turns)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
London finishes: Forge
York grows: 6
York finishes: Catapult
Nottingham finishes: Swordsman
Kumbi Saleh finishes: Spearman

Turn 241/660 (1106 AD) [11-Feb-2008 20:16:03]
London begins: Swordsman (3 turns)
York begins: Axeman (6 turns)
Nottingham begins: Catapult (5 turns)
Kumbi Saleh begins: Axeman (11 turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Greek territory at Pharsalos, Catapult defeats (2.00/5): Greek Axeman (Prob Victory: 48.0%)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Greek territory at Pharsalos, Catapult defeats (1.00/5): Greek Phalanx (Prob Victory: 87.2%)
Captured Pharsalos (Alexander)
Pharsalos begins: Granary (90 turns)
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Longbowman (6.00/6) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Longbowman (1.68/6) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Longbowman (2.52/6) (Prob Victory: 1.3%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult defeats (0.95/5): Greek Longbowman (Prob Victory: 14.6%)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Swordsman defeats (4.62/6): Greek Longbowman (Prob Victory: 81.2%)
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Swordsman defeats (3.24/6): Greek Longbowman (Prob Victory: 95.5%)
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (1.20/5): Greek Phalanx (Prob Victory: 96.3%)
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Greek Swordsman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
Hinduism has spread: Athens
Captured Athens (Alexander)
Athens begins: Barracks (75 turns)
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
London finishes: Swordsman
Kumbi Saleh finishes: Axeman
Attitude Change: Hannibal(Carthage) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 242/660 (1112 AD) [11-Feb-2008 20:41:52]
London begins: Spearman (2 turns)
Kumbi Saleh begins: Spearman (11 turns)
London begins: War Elephant (4 turns)
Axeman promoted: Combat II
Axeman promoted: Formation
Axeman promoted: Combat I
A Cottage was built near Nottingham
Catapult promoted: Barrage I

New Log Entries
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Turn 242/660 (1112 AD) [12-Feb-2008 19:00:01]
Archer promoted: City Garrison II
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Archer promoted: City Garrison II
Spearman promoted: Combat II
Athens begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
York finishes: Axeman<